Forever35, Episode 367: “Be A Try Hard with Alex Laughlin”

Date: September 1, 2025
Hosts: Doree Shafrir & Elise Hu
Guest: Alex Sujong Laughlin

Episode Overview

In this engaging and self-aware episode, Doree and Elise welcome writer and audio producer Alex Sujong Laughlin to talk about her new podcast “Try Hard,” what it means to embrace trying (and being called a "try hard"), creative risks, and the journey of making space for yourself—whether in media, hobbies, or self-care. The conversation weaves together self-care rituals, media nostalgia, the evolution of podcasting and media careers, and reflections on creative voice and collaboration.

Main Themes & Discussion Points

1. Catching Up: Nostalgia and Self-Care Updates

00:41–08:39

• Elise shares excitement about reliving her millennial college days at concerts (Nelly, Ja Rule, Eve, and upcoming Baby Face + KC of KC & JoJo), reflecting on music’s ability to connect to past versions of ourselves.

  • “It was a real full circle moment to see Ja again… this buffet of performers, love it.” — Elise (04:21)

• Doree discusses a recent tennis match and her experience with microneedling as a new self-care step, including cost, aftercare, and how it compares to other cosmetic procedures.

• The hosts discuss skincare and handling sunspots, with advice on products (vitamin C, glycolic acid), in-office procedures (laser, freezing), and general philosophy about investing in dermatology.

2. Introducing Alex Laughlin: Self-Care & The Artist’s Way

13:42–19:26

• Alex reflects on fighting for “dominance over her brain” with her phone and the reward of morning journaling over scrolling.

  • “When I do manage to let my better side win and stay off the Internet, I really like journaling in the morning.” — Alex (14:49)

• Shares how “The Artist’s Way” practice of Morning Pages (handwritten journaling) with colleagues changed her relationship to mornings and creativity.

• Alex details her notebook system, breaking it into four special-purpose journals:

  • Long-term project ideas
  • Daily diary & morning pages
  • Work/logistics (weekly/daily to-do lists)
  • Media journal (tracking books, movies, impressions)

3. Media Tracking and Book Recommendations

17:29–19:09

• Alex and Elise compare systems for tracking books (spreadsheet vs. Goodreads vs. notebook).
• Alex recommends American Bulk by Emily Mester for its honest, unflinching essays on excess and shopping addiction.
  • “She’s really not afraid to make herself look ugly or unappealing in a way that I found incredibly comforting.”—Alex (18:26)

4. Try Hard: The Podcast, Its Origins, and Reclaiming “Try Hard”

19:09–27:04

• Alex’s new show invites people to reclaim their “try hard” nature and tackle a project or skill they’ve wanted to try (with support and sometimes a small budget).

  • “I think that everybody has that thing that they wish they could do if they just admitted to themselves that they wanted to do it… once I started talking about this project, my friends immediately had those things.” — Alex (19:27)

• Example: In the first Try Hard episode, a guest overcomes anxiety about a group yoga class, highlighting how small dreams often mask deeper blocks.

  • “She almost bailed on me, but she did it... She’s broken that seal of anxiety.” — Alex (21:46)

• Alex shares that hosting Try Hard is her own “try hard” move—transitioning from producing to putting herself out there as a host.

On the “Try Hard” stigma:

• “The term try hard has become so derogatory... and I love that you’re kind of reclaiming this term. It shouldn't be derogatory to want to try something new.” — Doree (22:59)
• Alex’s mission: Drop the need to seem “cool” and embrace being earnest, even if it feels a little cringe or vulnerable.
  • “I have never been accused of being cool and I have no interest in trying to be cool... the most valuable things in life, you get access to them once you let yourself drop the facade of, I’ve got it, I know what I’m doing. You have to look and feel a little stupid to do anything of value.” — Alex (23:50)

5. Millennial Earnestness vs. Gen Z Irony & Media Evolution

24:55–27:42

• Discussion on generational attitudes: millennials as “too earnest,” Gen Z as more detached/ironic.

  • “On the fan to hater spectrum, I’m always going to err on the side of fan because I’m just like, wow, it’s so cool that you guys made this thing. And I know it’s goofy…” — Alex (25:09)

• Doree adds context as a Gen Xer, observing the original irony of her cohort and how embracing earnestness felt radical at Buzzfeed.

6. Working at Defector Media & Normal Gossip Origin Story

29:42–36:05

• Alex explains Defector as a cooperatively owned media company—everyone is a co-owner and votes on key matters, making it both rewarding and frustrating.

  • “It's frustrating sometimes, but it's such an honor… dealing with these problems, as opposed to, you know, our billionaire boss has decided to pivot to being a Republican.” — Alex (30:03)

• The meet-cute professional story with Kelsey McKinney: both tracked each other as college rivals, then met later at Defector, becoming great creative collaborators.

7. Stepping Away from a Hit: Leaving Normal Gossip

35:51–37:33

• Alex describes the bittersweet process of stepping back from the hugely successful podcast Normal Gossip, acknowledging pride in the team's evolution and the challenge of forging a new identity post-success.
  • “It's definitely a little scary to be like, who am I without Normal Gossip? But that’s part of why I am working on a new project.” — Alex (36:31)

8. Creativity, Voice, and Advice for Aspiring Podcasters

37:33–43:52

• Lessons from Normal Gossip: Years spent producing for others strengthened Alex’s creative execution, but experimenting with her own “silly, literal” style led to breakout success.

  • “There’s something to be said about putting in the years and really doing the work that you don’t really want to do for a long time… and then coming out the other end and knowing what you want to make.” — Alex (39:39)

• Advice for aspiring audio folks:

  • Listen widely. Know your taste and why you like what you like.

  • Just start. The best way to learn is by making (“especially if it’s bad”) and the barriers to entry are lower than ever.

  • “Nobody's going to be like, hey, you, 23-year-old with a dream—how's about you pick up a mic? Like, nobody’s going to say that... you have to show them you want to do this thing.” — Alex (43:52)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Journaling/Self-Care:
  “I have all kinds of apps that keep me off of my phone at night and in the mornings... but when my better side wins... I really like journaling.” — Alex (14:17)
• On Creative Vulnerability:
  “You have to look and feel a little stupid to do anything of value.” — Alex (24:55)
• On Millennial vs. Gen Z:
  “I think millennials are known as being too earnest... Gen Z is cool and irreverent and maybe at a remove. How did this happen? What is the cost of it?” — Elise (24:55)
• On Defector’s Co-op Life:
  “It’s hours-long discussions about whether to start a Slack channel about something… but it’s such an honor to be doing this kind of hard work.” — Alex (30:03)
• On Rejection and Collaboration:
  (On not getting a fellowship job Kelsey did): “This bitch. We have the same resume!” — Alex (33:52, playful tone)
• On Podcasting Advice:
  “Listen to a lot of stuff and know what you like and know why you like it... And just get started, especially if it’s bad.” — Alex (42:27–43:52)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:41–08:39 — Host check-in: concerts, microneedling, skincare, and sunspots
• 13:42–19:26 — Alex’s self-care: journaling and notebooks
• 19:09–23:50 — Try Hard podcast: premise, ethos, reclaiming “try hard”
• 24:55–27:42 — Millennial vs. Gen Z earnestness, Buzzfeed legacy
• 29:42–32:50 — Defector Media: the co-op experiment
• 35:51–37:33 — Moving on from Normal Gossip and creative identity
• 37:33–43:52 — Lessons from creative risks and advice for aspiring podcasters

Where to Find Alex & Try Hard

• Listen to Try Hard wherever you get your podcasts.
• Alex is on Instagram: @alexlafs.

Closing Thoughts

This episode is a celebration of trying, of being a "try hard" in the best sense: pursuing growth, following creative impulses, and finding connection in earnestness and vulnerability. Alex, Doree, and Elise remind us that real self-care isn’t about being perfect, but about giving yourself permission to do—badly, bravely, and honestly.