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Episode 373: Connect, Don’t Correct Your Body with Cadence Dubus - Forever35 | Wave AI Podcast Notes

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Episode 373: Connect, Don’t Correct Your Body with Cadence Dubus

Forever35

Mon Oct 13 2025

Summary

Forever35 – Episode 373: "Connect, Don’t Correct Your Body with Cadence Dubus"

October 13, 2025 – Hosts: Doree Shafrir & Elise Hu; Guest: Cadence Dubus

Overview

In this episode, Doree and Elise are joined by Cadence Dubus—a movement coach, founder of Brooklyn Strength, and expert on connecting with our bodies in compassionate, non-prescriptive ways. Together, they explore shifting attitudes on fitness, body acceptance, the resurgence of skinniness as a cultural norm, and the practicalities and philosophies of movement at midlife. The discussion is rich with humor and practical tips, grounded in Cadence’s innovative approach to self-care and bodily awareness.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Updates, Product Recommendations, and Household Rituals

Shampoo Recs: Elise raves about Hasuo Herbal Essential Shampoo (a K-beauty find) for thick and oily-prone hair, and unexpectedly loves it for her own finer hair too (03:33).
- "My hair feels like not only cleaner, but lighter and thicker too at the same time." – Elise (04:59)
Conditioner Talk: Doree shares her ongoing satisfaction with Prose personalized conditioner, especially for fine, long hair (05:55).
Organization Real Talk: The hosts candidly discuss the realities and motivations around decluttering, emphasizing it as a mental health and executive function support, not a moral good (08:35).
- "It's not a moral failing. It's just a practical concern more than anything." – Elise (09:25)
Guest Intro: Cadence Dubus is introduced, and her broader approach to movement, beyond just "personal training," is highlighted (11:00).

2. Cadence Dubus: Approaching Movement as Connection, Not Correction

Cadence’s Self-Care Practice

Dog Walks for Mindfulness (17:34)
- Daily walks with her dogs, especially the "do whatever you want dog day," are vital for presence and joy.
- "They're always thrilled to be outside... just enjoying this moment and I can do that with them and let them guide me." – Cadence (17:46)

Her Journey to Fitness Coaching

Began as a dancer-turned-Pilates instructor, originally for practical reasons (income as a dancer in NYC).
Emphasizes functional anatomy and a curiosity for how bodies really work.
- "We're constantly fed, especially as women, that... everything is constantly going downhill. Everything's terrible and negative. It's very hard to learn to connect to your body, listen to your body, care about your body." – Cadence (21:58)

What Clients Really Want

Many arrive burned out on fitness, carrying history of restrictive habits or punishing exercise (23:15).
The goal: Build a sustainable, respectful movement practice that fits one's life, not a metric- or punishment-driven hamster wheel.
- "Please do not make me go to Orange Theory. How do I do this in a way that aligns with my values and doesn't feel like self-harm?" – Cadence (23:23)
Distinguishes her intake process: Focus on the personal story of a client's body, not just physical goals—injuries, traumas, life context—so the practice can be responsive and individualized (24:46).

Moving Away from “Goals”

Critiques the culture of biometric and gamified self-improvement—a million tracking devices but little actual body trust (26:36).
- "It's like a sci-fi movie where we're outsourcing our complete awareness of our bodies to our phone." – Cadence (27:00)
Instead, she wants to help clients tune in to their own bodily signals and inherent wisdom.

3. Practical Tips for Bodily Connection

Strengthening Awareness

Cadence’s Top Practical Tip:
- "Literally notice when you have to go pee, and go pee right then. It's a really low bar... You're practicing telling your body that your most basic needs are important." – Cadence (32:45)
Explains that respecting physical urges—even "mundane" ones—quickly broadens to honoring hunger, fatigue, emotional stress, and even boundaries in relationships.
"If I'm practicing pushing aside my most basic bodily need, I'm practicing telling my body that my most basic needs are not important." – Cadence (34:40)

4. Navigating Body Image, Skinniness, and Ozempic Culture

On Cultural Regression

Cadence notes the recent cultural swing back towards skinniness/"heroin chic" and rise in GLP-1 (like Ozempic) use (36:50).
- "We will move through this ultra skinny moment and we will come out on the other side... It all just goes back and forth." – Cadence (36:50)
She shares patient advocacy advice for clients feeling pressured by doctors to pursue GLP-1s for weight loss—encourages them to ask, “If I were thin, what would you recommend?” (38:07).
Describes how clients can experience muscle loss and dissociation from their bodies with rapid, medically-driven weight loss:
- "There is a dissociation happening if you are medically losing weight that is similar to the dissociation that happens when people are focusing their entire lives on losing weight." – Cadence (42:36)
Stresses a non-judgmental stance, centering the client's lived reality, and advocating for bodily connection above external manipulation.

5. Movement, Bone Density, and Sustainable Fitness at Midlife

How to Start & Sustain

For anyone wanting to improve strength or bone density (perimenopause/menopause especially), start by asking what you already do, what you enjoy, and what you’re curious about (44:05).
- "The first place for anyone to start is: What did they already do? What are they curious about? What do they want from this?" – Cadence (44:05)
Advises patience and playfulness:
- If you hate all exercise, start with any movement that feels interesting—rock climbing, roller-skating, etc.—and follow consistency over time (46:09).
- Offers a 10-year client story: Someone who once despised exercise now regularly strength trains—emphasizing how long, organic progress can be (48:00).
  - "Give yourself time to go on a journey and trust that it's worth it... When we look at our own physical practice, we're like, 'Oh, I tried running once and I was terrible at it. I'm never ever doing it again.'" – Cadence (49:41)
Life circumstances change, pregnancy, injury—so should your movement practices (49:20).

Notable Quotes & Moments

On Bodily Tracking Devices:
"My thing told me I hardly slept, so I guess I really should be careful today... oh my god, too much data!" – Cadence (27:00)
On Everyday Movement:
"I'm not about to start recreating a car because I don't know how a car works... if you know how a car works, you're like, oh, I shouldn't be rebuilding this; this car actually is great." – Cadence (21:57)
On Compassion for Change:
"When we talk about our bodies and our fitness practices, we're really used to getting this everyday something... which really does not suit how life works and it also doesn't suit how our actual bodies work." – Cadence (49:10)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------| | 03:33 - 06:10 | Elise & Doree talk new shampoo discoveries and haircare preferences | | 08:29 - 10:10 | Honest conversation on clutter, organization, and mental health | | 17:07 - 20:16 | Cadence shares her personal journey, origins, and unique approach to fitness | | 23:15 - 24:46 | The real concerns women have about fitness after burnout | | 26:36 - 29:51 | Danger of biometric devices, moving away from hyper-focus on “goals” | | 32:45 - 34:46 | Practical self-connection—pee when you have to pee! | | 36:50 - 43:04 | Pressure of skinniness, Ozempic, cultural cycles, and advocating with doctors | | 44:05 - 50:21 | Steps for building and sustaining a movement/strength practice as you age | | 50:52 - 52:14 | Where to find Cadence, her website and programs |

Where to Find Cadence Dubus

Website: brooklynstrength.com
Instagram: @brooklynstrength
Substack: After Class
Podcast: Busybody

Episode Tone & Takeaway

The episode offers a warm, wise, and practical perspective on caring for the body without cruelty or perfectionism. Cadence and the hosts emphasize curiosity, adaptability, and compassion, encouraging listeners to move away from obsessive self-improvement culture—towards connection with oneself as a lifelong practice, not a product.

Summary by Forever35 Podcast Summarizer

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Transcript

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Dory Shafrir (1:36)

Hello and welcome to Forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Dory Shafrir.

Elise Hu (1:42)

And I'm Elise Hu, and we are two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.

Dory Shafrir (1:46)

And we have an amazing guest today.

Elise Hu (1:49)

Dory really connected with today's guest.

Dory Shafrir (1:53)

I really did. I really, like felt everything that she was talking about. Her name is Cadence Debuss. She's technically a personal trainer, but I feel like that doesn't totally encompass her whole thing. She also has a podcast. She's a newsletter. She is a very like, interesting thinker about bodies and exercise.

Elise Hu (2:18)

Yeah, I feel like she described herself as a movement coach or, or something like that. Like, not specifically a personal trainer.

Dory Shafrir (2:27)

Yes, totally. We'll be talking to her a little later in the episode. But she's a. She's a really great guest.

Elise Hu (2:34)

Yes. Before we get to that, I teased on last week's Friday Casual chat that I'm very excited about a new shampoo that I am using courtesy of our Korean hairstylist, Jessie, who cuts the hair and styles the hair of all five family members, including Rob.

Cadence Debuss (20:16)

Good question. I. I always tell the story of how I first started in Pilates as being extremely non romantic and that a lot of people get into my field, which primarily I, I teach, you know, I teach bodies how to get stronger and how to feel more connected and how to care for yourself through the mode of like moving your body. I wouldn't call myself a personal trainer and I'd. And I have been teaching so long that to say that I teach like one mode of fitness doesn't really resonate anymore because I have so many strains of things that come into my teaching. So. But I did start with Pilates because I was a dancer in New York City. And if you're a dancer in New York City, you're either going to wait tables or teach fitness or be a nanny. And I was already nanny. And for anyone out there who's nanny, it's very weird. And you're inserted into people's marriages and their home lives and you're like 20 years old and also you're like picking people's children up and you're in charge of their health and well being and you're 20, so you're not so great at your own health and wellbeing. It was very by luck that I had Already had this really incredible anatomy background and been introduced to functional anatomy in that way. I didn't realize that, that you could teach fitness in that way. And so I was inspired immediately. And then that just led me into a zillion, you know, education and different modalities and becoming so curious about how our bodies work and really passionate about teaching people about how our bodies work. Because I think the huge missing link is that we don't get taught, literally, especially as women, how our bodies work on so many levels. And then what we do get is pressure to change our bodies constantly. But if, first of all, if you don't know how your body works, like, I'm not about to start, you know, recreating a car because I don't know how a car works, so that's not going to go well. But also maybe if you know how a car works, you're like, oh, I shouldn't be rebuilding this. This car actually is great. We're just constantly fed, especially as women that, you know, by the time you're 28, everything is going downhill. Everything is constantly going downhill. Everything's terrible and negative. And it's very hard to learn to connect to your body, listen to your body, care about your body. When your first introduction to your own body is that basically it started bad and needs to be changed from there.

Cadence Debuss (26:36)

Yeah, I think that our current culture is so we're in this like body hacking. Like there's like a thing to attach to your body to read every possible thing. And if anything, I struggle with my clients sometimes coming to, you know, literally saying things like My whatever thing tells me that I, I slept well last night, but I feel really terrible. Or the opposite. I feel rested, but my thing told me I hardly slept, so I guess I really should be careful today or whatever. And I'm just like, oh my God, too much data. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, it's like a sci fi movie where we're just, we're really outsourcing our complete awareness of our bodies to all these, you know, to our phone being like, you have to walk 300 more steps. And then they're like, oh my God, I have to walk the more steps. So I try to just start to help people tap into their own knowledge, which it almost sounds kind of woo or something to be like, you know, the solution to your own problems. But when it comes to our bodies, like I. Our bodies are really in conversation with us. So especially when I work with people who have pain or recurring injuries, I often, my goal is to really empower them to be guiding our sessions. So for example, this is a very extreme situation. But I had a client once who was really certain that her neck had been damaged and she was really, really scared about it. And it was linked to a lot of just like other stuff in her personal life. But when I would watch her when we were just talking and she was just getting ready for her session and we weren't like doing our session yet, she would be talking with her head moving around and like laughing and her head would go up and down. Like really just basic indicators, you know. I'm not saying that she couldn't have a bulge disc and be doing that or whatever, but the kind of damage that is basically as soon as we would start moving, she would become really rigid and say, oh, I can't, my neck won't, you know, all these things. And I'm not even saying that that was imaginary, but it is just really interesting, you know, I was able to literally just let her know that when you're just talking to me, your neck is moving with what appears to be ease. But then when we start doing other stuff, it seems like it really shifts. Like, what does that feel like for you? Are you noticing that difference? And that was really useful information for her because she had a really strong story that her neck is always painful and it has all this restriction and it had never, no one had ever said that to her that I see your head moving as though your neck doesn't have restrictions. So where does that bring us next? You know, for our work? So I think that because of mainstream fitness, we have this idea that moving your body is a very looks very specific and also that you have to be, you know, quote unquote like healthy in a certain way. But we all have the capacity to move in quite a wide variety in the right environment and circumstance and certainly with the right guidance, which often is ourselves. But if you feel like it's not you, then somebody like me to kind of help you find that self.

Cadence Debuss (32:45)

My first thing that I give to people, if they really feel like they struggle with that, is to literally notice when you have to go pee and go pee right then it's a really low bar. Because I think that if you have any kind of job, you probably don't pee when you have to pee, like, 75% of the time. Because we also got taught to do that when we were in school. And we all do the thing where we're, like, finishing an email and you just kind of notice, oh, I have to pee. And then you're just like, whatever, I'll just shoot this email out. And then, oh, somebody just wrote me back. Let me just do that. Yeah, you know, 40 minutes goes by and you had to pee. And, like, because you're an adult, you're not going to pee your pants. But it's such a, like, easy low bar. It doesn't have anything to do with food. It doesn't have anything to do with hunger cues. All these things that people. There's a lot of stress and anxiety around. It's just straight, like, a really simple cue that our body gives us a bunch of times a day that doesn't really have any, like, politics around it. And I think it can also. It very quickly broadens into respecting your bodily comfort, because when you do start doing that and just peeing when you have to pee, you're like, wow, I feel better. I'm focused more. I'm now noticing other cues, like, I'm hungry or I'm thirsty or I'm tired or I'm super stressed. And actually, I'm gonna pause and not write back to that email because I am worried I'm not gonna write in a very nice tone or whatever. You know, I think that, like, those really small, subtle places, like, very quickly, you know, tip the dominoes into other areas of our lives. Because if you are something that I say to my clients as much as I possibly can is what we are practicing regularly. The most things that we are practicing is what we are practicing for our life, for everything. So if I'm practicing pushing aside my most basic bodily need, I'm practicing telling my body that my most basic needs are not. Not important.

Cadence Debuss (37:48)

So I think always these things are in reaction to something else. And I think I'm very fortunate that my clients are pretty clued in. And I don't have too many people that are really focused feeling like they are. I mean, everyone is. Everyone feels like they should be skinnier. Right. Because that's the message that we get. And I know that my clients more and more are telling me that whatever ailment they come to, their doctors with, their doctors are like, you should just take a glp. And they're like, I really don't want to. Wow. Yeah. And like, okay, there are other medications for heart disease or whatever, you know, like, please, I don't need this one. That's going to do all these other things to me. That's really disturbing because I end up. I've literally sent resources to clients on just like, patient advocacy, and especially to my clients that are in bigger bodies and literally just fat clients of mine, there are lots of resources where you ask questions like, to the doctor, if I was thin, what would you recommend? Can we talk about that? Like, can we just notice the lens that you're going through and like, literally just close your eyes, pretend I'm thin, and what options would you give me? So I do a lot of that kind of. Yeah. Advocacy on the part of my clients or validating them and being like, here's some. Here's some people that. That have resources for you. The first assessment that I do is literally just visually, I'm watching you move. I'm watching you interact with space, and I'm getting told a lot of information just by seeing how you do really basic things. So that our first session, I usually have people just, like, roll down, head to the, you know, towards the ground, sit, stand, like, literally primary color movements just to like, let's just see what your body does. Looking at a client that had taken Ozempic and this person had lost 70 pounds, and I didn't know what their body looked like before. It was very disconcerting because I really couldn't tell what that shift had done to their body. Like, I had no metric and. And it was because there is so much muscle loss often with GLPs. I was, you know, it's like I. I was seeing this body After a humongous transition that was, you know, artificially created in some way or. I don't know, people get. It's not a judgment, but it's like, it's. It's a different feeling than when someone has lost weight because the disease that they took has result that they had with has resolved or, you know, whatever. They're not depressed and now they're moving more and their body has changed. I think what's really insidious about GLPs is that normally I tell people that we all really have body types and we can only. We can only change so much within the body type that we're already given. But because GLPs affect muscle, people can kind of quote, unquote, change their body type. And you can have a person who's naturally like thicker and stockier turn out really, quite, quite thin. And that is really disturbing because I don't think it's a good thing to lose muscle. I think most people would agree with that. And this client did say they've never felt weaker. They were very concerned about that. And because I didn't have, I didn't know them before, I. It was hard for me to assess, like, what. How much of this is natural for you. Like, you know, pushing this amount of weight or whatever. Like, I don't know what your strength level was like before. And I will say, and this is maybe a judgment, there is a dissociation happening if you are medically losing weight. That is similar to the dissociation that happens when people are focusing their entire lives on losing weight by restricting calories and working out a zillion hours a day. And that is troublesome because it's hard to be connected to a body that you're really manipulating so much. And I'm not even saying, like, don't do it. And I'm not saying, you know, you're bad or dumb or whatever. People are making use of tools that are available in a world and society that does not support us to be healthy and balanced or have the ability to have balanced lives. So I, I 100 believe that. And if, if it's helping you get there, then that's a great reason to do it. But it, there is just notice that there is some kind of disconnect. And so that's, you know, it is a very outside way of viewing your own body. Except that we live in our body. And so that is, that is a tricky place. And with all that being said, I would love to work with someone who's on GLPs. And help them during that transition so that hopefully they can be as in touch as possible during that. Because it's hard. It's really hard to be in a body.

Cadence Debuss (44:46)

So often I've had quite a number of women that like, had always had a really great yoga practice. And then they're just realizing now they're in their 40s. That's really not cutting it for them in terms of strength building. So the real next question is, how much of a chore do you find exercise? Because some people are very good at being like, great, this is the way to solve this problem. I'm just going to do it. I'm going to sign up and I'm going to do my strength training twice a week. And I just check it off my list and I don't really have that much baggage around it. And whether I enjoy it or not, who cares? I'm getting the results that I want. I feel stronger, I feel more capable. I feel, you know, less fragile in my body. Great. If you're just like, I have a long history of really, I don't like exercising, I don't like sweating. I was like the kid that got picked last for the, you know, gym class team. I have a lot of discomfort around this. Then I would really recommend that you find like anything that you're curious about. Even if it's like rock climbing, you know, it could be, you know, roller skate class. And just start with any movement that you're vaguely interested in and just try and do that. And if, if that works, awesome. Just keep up that consistency. And then what people often want is like a three month plan and now they're done and they work out all the time and everything's great. I just talked to a client of mine who when she first came to me, she now has two kids and one of them is probably, I've probably known her for 10 years and I think I worked with her. I think she first came in when with her first pregnancy and she was someone who would self describe as like, oh, she doesn't exercise and she really like, she can't, it's not interested and blah blah, blah. And she was really motivated during her pregnancies, but otherwise would like really pop in and out of my offerings. And I do a virtual running club, which is one of my favorite things that we do because it's extremely, extremely beginner friendly. And she did that club and she did it a couple of times actually. She ended up running a half marathon. Then she kind of stopped running altogether. And then recently she reached out to me and was like, I started strength training again. And you know, she was like, literally it was so cute because she sent me a picture of this like whiteboard in her gym with that said like Cadence's class. And she was like, I'm strength training with you because she's now works for a bike like philanthropy thing, like bringing bikes to communities. And she's like, I'm biking all the time and my co workers introduced me to gravel biking and it's super fun and I want to get stronger for it. And so it's circled all the way back to she basically found a thing that she's really excited about that she really wants to do. And now in order to do it better and have more fun, she's like, I got to get stronger. And so now she's like back re engaged getting, doing the strength training. And it has this much bigger picture which is so much more fun than bone density, muscle mass where she's we're the same age. She's in her early 40s and she's like, I've never been fitter. I literally get up at 6am to do my strength workouts. You could never tell me that I would ever have done that. I mean, when I first met her, she was run out the door late, hasn't eaten breakfast for, you know, not a 6am working out person. And I'm not saying that should be everyone's goal, right? But I think like that's a 10 year journey this person went through. Wow. So give yourself time to go on a journey and trust that it's worth it. And it doesn't mean that in the middle, I mean, in the middle of that journey she ran a half marathon. In the middle of that journey she did all these different things. It wasn't like she, she was constantly stopping and starting to the point where she was starting from ground zero over and over. But I think like, if you go to the, you know, water aerobics class and you're like, wow, that's super fun. Trust that if you just keep going, something else is going to happen where you're going to be like, oh, there's a circus studio in my neighborhood. The water aerobics was fun, maybe I'll try a silks class or something. And now all of a sudden you're like meeting all these other people that are introducing other things. This is how our lives play out. And I think when we talk about our bodies and our fitness practices, we're really used to getting this like everyday something thing or this like little prescription which really does not suit how life works and it also doesn't suit how our actual bodies work. Like that client I was talking about had two kids over those that decade. Obviously she did different things while she was nine months pregnant versus when she was not pregnant. But we aren't told that the way that we should care for our body or engage with our body physically is going to change sometimes drastically within a year, within five years. And so we tend to just give ourselves the story that I started a thing and I failed. I started a thing and got injured. I'm a failure. I started a thing. I didn't like it because I'm terrible at it. Instead of just continuing to try again, just like you would if you were like, oh, I got inspired by Great British Bake off and I'm going to make brownies and now I'm going to try making a cake. And like we're so much less harsh, right? We're like, oh, the brownies were like, kind of okay. The cake didn't really work. Let me try this recipe. We're like, really nice to ourselves and in a 10 year period, you could turn into this person that all your friends are asking to bake for their, you know, kids, birthdays. But when we look at our own physical practice, we're like, oh, I tried running once and I was terrible at it. I'm never, ever doing it again.