Forever35 Podcast Episode 381: Learning a New Life with Jen Hatmaker
Date: December 15, 2025
Hosts: Doree Shafrir & Elise Hu
Guest: Jen Hatmaker
Episode Overview
In this episode, Doree and Elise reconnect with bestselling author and podcaster Jen Hatmaker, who returns to Forever35 following a transformative period in her life. The conversation delves deep into Jen’s experiences since her last appearance in May 2020: the end of her 26-year marriage, her evolving relationship with faith and identity, and the challenges and liberation of rebuilding her life in midlife. With characteristic warmth and candor, Jen unpacks themes from her new memoir, Awake, offering wisdom on self-trust, boundaries, finances, faith, and building a new sense of self after loss. The episode is a poignant exploration of self-care, resilience, and what it means to truly believe oneself.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. Jen's Radical Self-Care: The Friday Noon Rule
- [14:43] Jen shares her current self-care practice: she and her team end work by noon every Friday.
- “Our weekend starts Fridays at noon. I cannot tell you how awesome that feels… For some reason, like, the mental lift that has provided for the whole team is really outsized.” — Jen Hatmaker [15:02]
- It’s a boundary for the entire team, not just herself. She even tells her team to “ignore her” if she texts after noon.
2. Catching Up Since 2020: Jen's Personal Earthquake
- [17:33] Jen recounts the six weeks between her last appearance and learning of her husband’s affair, leading to the end of their 26-year marriage (July 11, 2020).
- She describes it as a “before and after” moment in her life.
- Candidly discusses the pain and upheaval: "My story just split in half. Married 26 years, five kids. And after that, divorced single parent, completely different life." [18:42]
3. Trusting Her Inner Knowing
- [21:30] Jen describes learning to trust her intuition after previously ignoring major red flags in her marriage.
- “I will believe myself the first time... I don’t care how disruptive that thing is that I know... when I know something is wrong or over or broken... That’s it. I will believe myself the first time without waiting for it to miraculously fix itself…” — Jen Hatmaker [24:41]
- She now emphasizes the importance of not gaslighting oneself and moving toward integrity and self-trust, even when it’s disruptive.
4. Grieving the Loss of History and Shared Memory
- [26:17] Jen reflects on the sadness of losing not just her marriage, but her “institutional memory partner”—someone who shared all her adult milestones and memories.
- “Not that I lost him in my marriage... but that I lost my person who had all the inside jokes with me, totally shared all the memories. We had this shorthand. And nobody will ever replicate that. Ever. Those years are over.” [27:30]
- Both Jen and Elise share the unique grief and bittersweetness of co-parenting and grandparenting alone post-divorce.
5. On Evangelicalism, Tradwife Culture, and Control
- [32:58] Jen no longer identifies with the evangelical community, which she describes as both “opted out and kicked out.”
- She critiques the rise of the “tradwife” phenomenon and the continued historical entanglement of white evangelicalism with nationalism, patriarchy, and anti-feminism.
- “I don’t miss it... that used to be my home. You know, I used to live there. I know that language, I know that ethos. I know how that belonging is given and revoked based on your behavior, based on your positions.” [36:21]
- She points out that the ultimate tool of control in those environments is “belonging,” making silence and compliance powerful social pressures.
6. Parenting and Faith After Deconstruction
- [37:52] Jen discusses raising five kids, now 19–27, all navigating faith in diverse ways, and her more open approach.
- “I am not afraid of whatever their faith journey looks like... my theology doesn’t require me to be afraid for them anymore. I’m not in charge of their eternity…I just see it as the two prongs that Jesus said, which is love God and love people. That’s it.” [41:31]
7. Taking Charge of Finances After Divorce
- [42:26] Jen admits she’d previously “phoned in” her financial life, trusting her husband to manage everything, but warns this left her vulnerable and unprepared.
- “One of the more humiliating parts of Awake…was how deeply I had phoned in our shared financial life... I wasn’t watching. And I should have been.” [42:26]
- She details her crash course in managing money post-divorce, encouraging other women: “Know it, learn it, and do it before you have to do it on your own.” [45:53]
8. Dating, Love, and Sex in Midlife
- [46:44] Jen describes her surprise at reentering the dating world in her late 40s, the hilarity of a failed 12-hour Bumble stint, and ultimately meeting her current partner “in the wild.”
- She cherishes her newfound independence and the ease of a healthy relationship, crediting maturity for better communication, sex, and intimacy.
- “I am a better partner to Tyler than I was a wife to Brandon. I’m just a different person... Sex is fun at this age. Also same. We’re older, we’re better. Right? All of it…I just prefer being older to being younger, basically in every category.” [49:13, 50:19]
9. Advice for Those Sensing Change is Needed
- [51:15] Jen offers direct counsel to listeners wrestling with inner alarms and uncertain next steps.
- “Believe yourself. Yourself is not lying to yourself. If your body is giving you signals…you are not lying to yourself. Stop gaslighting yourself... There’s a cost one way or another. You’re either going to tell the truth and move into alignment and integrity and then figure out how to manage the disruption…or you’re already paying the cost to stay. It’s not free.” [51:15–52:48]
- “Pay it in freedom. It is a smaller cost than the one you’re paying now. Believe yourself.” [52:53]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On boundaries and self-care:
“I tell them if I text you after noon on Friday, ignore me…Our weekend starts Fridays at noon.” — Jen Hatmaker [15:00] -
On the shock of divorce:
"My story just split in half. Married 26 years, five kids. And after that, divorced single parent, completely different life." — Jen Hatmaker [18:42] -
On learning to trust intuition:
"I will believe myself the first time... I don’t care how disruptive that thing is that I know... I will believe myself the first time without waiting for it to miraculously fix itself...” — Jen Hatmaker [24:41] -
On divorce’s enduring sadness:
“Those years are over. They’re over.” — Jen Hatmaker [27:36] -
On faith and parenting:
“I just see it as the two prongs that Jesus said, which is love God and love people. That’s it. That’s all I really know for sure.” — Jen Hatmaker [41:31] -
On taking charge financially:
“I got really serious about taking charge of my own money. And I did. And I could. And anyone can.” [44:53] -
On relationships post-divorce:
“Sex is fun at this age. Also same. We’re older, we’re better. Right? All of it.” [50:11] -
On listening to your gut:
“Believe yourself…There’s a cost one way or another. You’re either going to tell the truth and move into alignment…or you’re already paying the cost to stay. It’s not free.” [51:15–52:48]
Important Timestamps
- [14:43] — Jen’s radical “Friday noon” work boundary
- [17:33] — The upheaval: end of marriage and before/after
- [21:30] — The “inner knowing” and what she had to let go
- [26:17] — Grieving the loss of shared memory
- [32:58] — Disentangling from evangelical, tradwife culture
- [37:52] — Parenting, faith, and non-controlling spiritual outlook
- [42:26] — Taking charge of finances
- [46:44] — Dating and relationships after divorce
- [51:15] — Advice to listeners: “Believe yourself”
Tone and Style
The episode mixes deep vulnerability with humor, honesty, and practical wisdom. Jen is disarmingly candid, often poking fun at herself while delivering substantial advice. Elise and Doree create a warm, supportive, and thoughtful space for exploration of tough topics around divorce, boundaries, self-worth, and beyond.
Summary
This conversation is a must-listen for anyone interested in personal reinvention, reclaiming agency, and building self-trust after life’s seismic shifts. Jen Hatmaker delivers both the hard-earned lessons and hope for transformation—reminding listeners, above all, to believe themselves.