Dori Shafrier (3:03)

Oh, my God.

Elise Hu (3:05)

And so one of the writers was like, why don't we just ask Tanya Mosley to do it? And so they reached out to Tanya and she got to go on the lot, which is the old General Hospital lot, and go record a voiceover in a studio there where they take Grey's Anatomy as Tanya Mosley. And the best part was in the script, she's described as 30s, comma, Tanya Mosley, like. And as you all will find out, she is not in her 30s, which we get into in the conversation.

Dori Shafrier (3:42)

I'm sure she'll be thrilled to have us, you know, mentioning that at the top of the show. Sorry, Tanya.

Elise Hu (3:49)

It's so great. Yeah. So that seems like a really fun, fun gig. I always, I. I find it like one of my pet peeves the way they depict reporters in television and film. Like, the way they kind of depict the mob right on the staircase outside the courthouse, and everybody's like yelling questions. And I guess that that's true in some press gaggles, but we're really a lot more dignified than that. And in fact, sometimes like, too respectful because I think there have been circumstances in which the press should be more confrontational and we're not. And so I've always thought, oh, God, it'd be really cool to be a fake reporter on tv. And I've yet to get to do that. And I guess this situation in Tanya's case is she gets to play herself on tv.

Dori Shafrier (4:36)

So that is really fun. That is really fun.

Elise Hu (4:40)

Yeah.

Dori Shafrier (4:40)

What is new with you, Elise?

Elise Hu (4:43)

I have one life hack that has really transformed my life. It is not free, but I was really at my nadir with the driving and driving. Around to activities.

Dori Shafrier (4:55)

Yeah.

Elise Hu (4:56)

Around the holidays. I mean, it was like that holiday chaos anyway in November and December. But Ava was playing for the school team, playing volleyball for the school team, and she was playing club volleyball. And then she decided to choose that club volleyball team, which is down in South Bay, which to me might as well be like a foreign country because it's just so far away emotionally. But it turns out driving to Gardena was taking an hour on a Wednesday night between 5 and 6pm and then it was really not good for our mother daughter relationship. We were just fighting and stressed out and I didn't want to be doing it. And she could tell I didn't want to be doing it. And then I thought she was ungrateful, and it was just, like, not enjoyable. So finally, out of desperation, I posted on a babysitting group on Facebook, which I haven't ever used for babysitters. And I was like, okay, I know this sounds random, but are you driving age? Are you licensed?

Dori Shafrier (5:56)

Yeah.

Elise Hu (5:57)

And willing to take a gig in which all you would have to do is drive my daughter down to volleyball on Mondays and Wednesdays?

Dori Shafrier (6:06)

Oh, my gosh. Okay.

Elise Hu (6:07)

And I would pay the regular hourly fee for a babysitter, plus gas and mileage.

Dori Shafrier (6:13)

Yep.

Elise Hu (6:14)

And I didn't hear back for several weeks. I mean, this was kind of a desperate, random thing. But then a mom reached out to me on. On messenger, and she was like, my daughter is a senior in high school, so I don't know if that's younger than what you were looking for, but she. I assure you, she has. She's a very safe driver. She's a clean driving record. She's like, you know, in a. In a place in her school year in which she's already applied to a bunch of colleges. And so I feel like this gig could be really good for her. And I was like, great. Like, I did. I didn't even really think about it too much. I was like, oh, she's interested. Awesome. So it has, fortunately, worked out really well, and it has been transformative that now there's a high school senior named Lila who comes to our house on Mondays and Wednesdays, picks up Ava, drives her down to South Bay, and drops her off and walks her in. And that's all she has to do. She has to, like, drive her down, walk her in. And Ava loves it because now she has her high school friend, and they talk about, like, Brandy Melville and boys and drinks that they like, like, fun drinks that they like, and whatever trend stuff is going on together because they're both teenagers. I mean, they're separated by five years, but, like, Ava really likes her, and she has a good time chatting. And then I told Lila.

Dori Shafrier (7:34)

That's so cool.

Elise Hu (7:35)

Yeah. And Lila's like, I really enjoy my conversations with Ava, too. Like, I've been telling her about college and the whole college application process and all those things. So I'm sort of like, this is great. And it's been so much better, I'm pleased to report.

Dori Shafrier (7:48)

Oh, my gosh.

Elise Hu (7:49)

Yeah.

Dori Shafrier (7:50)

What a great. What a great solution you found.

Elise Hu (7:53)

Yeah. I mean, like I said, it's not free. I'd rather not have to do this, but it's like, I feel like it's money well spent.

Dori Shafrier (8:00)

Totally.

Elise Hu (8:01)

And for my sanity. And for your sanity.

Dori Shafrier (8:05)

Can't put a price on your sanity, Elise.

Elise Hu (8:07)

That's right. That's right. Rob was like, something has to give here because you're getting very volatile. Yeah, I'm already. I'm already like dramatic, so.

Dori Shafrier (8:19)

Oh my gosh.

Tanya Mosley (8:20)

Yeah.

Elise Hu (8:21)

Yeah. So that's been really good. And I was just reflecting on things that I was grateful for today and. And Lila is one of them. What about you? What's. What's going on? What are you looking forward to? Anything you're excited about.

Dori Shafrier (8:36)

I got to see you today in person, so that was fun.

Elise Hu (8:39)

Yeah, that was fun.

Tanya Mosley (8:41)

We did.

Elise Hu (8:41)

We forgot to mention that.

Tanya Mosley (8:43)

Yeah.

Dori Shafrier (8:44)

I feel like, you know, I see you so much on Riverside. What we used to record that. I like, forget that it's fun to hang out in person. Yeah.

Elise Hu (8:55)

Yeah. I really need to start playing tennis again. And if I feel good about it, we should just like start hitting. I just don't want to like it to be boring for you where we're just picking up balls the whole time.

Dori Shafrier (9:07)

I doubt it. I doubt it.

Elise Hu (9:09)

It would be fun to like get out there and just hit some balls and chat and catch up too.

Dori Shafrier (9:14)

Anytime. I am always down for more balls.

Elise Hu (9:18)

Yeah.

Dori Shafrier (9:22)

Well, should we introduce our guest?

Elise Hu (9:26)

Yes. I will be happy to do the honors. Tanya Mosley is an Emmy Award winning journalist and the co host of Fresh Air. Previously she was the CO host of NPR's Midday program here and now where she led daily coverage during the Trump administration, the pandemic and the racial reckoning of 2021. On January 6, 2021, she hosted live NPR special coverage of the insurrection as it was happening before radio. Mosley created award winning news features and long form television programming as a producer, reporter, anchor and correspondent for various outlets including NBC and Al Jazeera America. She is also the creator and host of the award winning podcast Truth Be Told. And she has a name. She lives here in Los Angeles. She is such a delight to talk to. She will share some of her skincare secrets and product faves all coming up in our conversation.

Dori Shafrier (10:23)

And before we get to Tanya, just a reminder that Our website is forever35podcast.com. We have links there to everything we mentioned on the show. We are on Instagram @forever35 podcast and our Patreon, where we have so much great bonus content, Our weekly casual chats, our monthly pop culture and entertainment recommendation episodes, our patreon chat, our Forever 35 questionnaire, and of course at the $10 level, we have ad free episodes and you get your name right on the podcast each month as a thank you. I mean, come on. And that is at patreon.com Forever35 we have our favorite products at Shopmy US/forever35. Oh, and I forgot to mention, at our Patreon, we also have our newsletter. So you can get that at the free tier on our Patreon. Again, patreon.com Forever35, you can call or text us at 781-591-0390 and email us at forever35podcastmail.com and we're gonna take a little break and then we will get to Tanya.

Elise Hu (11:29)

All right, we'll be right back. It's time to channel that fresh start energy of the new year and finally launch your business with Shopify. 2026 is the year you rewrite your story, own your future, and make your entrepreneurial dreams come true. With Shopify. It gives you everything you need to sell online and in person. Whether you're a household name or a first owner just getting started, millions of entrepreneurs have already made this leap. You know, you've seen that little purple button when you're shopping online at places like Rafi's or Allbirds. Shopify gives you all the tools to easily build your dream store by making the process simple. Choose from hundreds of beautiful templates that you can customize to match your brand and use Shopify's built in AI tools that write product descriptions and and headlines and help you edit product photos. Marketing is built in too, so you can create social campaigns and email campaigns that reach customers. In 2026, stop waiting and start selling with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.comfore35 Go to shopify.comfore35 that's shopify.comfore35 Hear your first this new year with Shopify by your side.

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Dori Shafrier (13:28)

Welcome to Forever 35. Tanya, it's so nice to have you here.

Tanya Mosley (13:32)

So nice to be here. Dori and Elise, this is going to be fun.

Dori Shafrier (13:37)

Before we get into all the questions that we have for you? We always start off by asking our guests about a self care practice that they have. So we are wondering, is there anything that you do that you would consider self care?

Tanya Mosley (13:51)

I buy too many facial care products and makeup products. Sephora sees me come in, they're like, here she comes, come on in. I have so many lip glosses and what's crazy is today I came into work and I only had two or three. And so in preparing for this, I thought, oh, I don't have my choices to like really get.

Elise Hu (14:11)

I only have three.

Tanya Mosley (14:13)

Right. These might not give me the color I want, but yeah, I love, I love facial care. I've just really gotten into it. And more recently, I have gotten into Korean facial care.

Elise Hu (14:24)

Yeah, girl.

Tanya Mosley (14:25)

Yes.

Elise Hu (14:26)

Tell us what you're into. Is there, are there any hero products in your, on your counter?

Tanya Mosley (14:31)

Well, I've started to use something called Medicube. And are you familiar with Medicube?

Elise Hu (14:37)

Medicube? All of the Koreans domestically love Medicube. Like anytime I have friends from Korea come and mule me things, they're bringing me Metacube stuff.

Tanya Mosley (14:47)

What's also amazing about Medicube is that the packaging is so good. How come American products aren't packaged this way? There's even like a little, they have like this little like a finger thing that like you can get all of the pads out of. You don't have to put your fingers in it. It's like it's just packaged so well. So I love all Medicube products. I love Paula's Choice products. They really work well. My face is really oily, I hear is going to be helpful for me as I age, but it really helps bring that down for me. So those are my two.

Elise Hu (15:19)

Tanya, are we allowed to say that it's a big birthday year for you this year.

Tanya Mosley (15:23)

Really? Elise, you're going to like, okay, we can cut it out.

Elise Hu (15:26)

That's fine. Okay, fine. All right, we'll cut it in post.

Dori Shafrier (15:32)

All right.

Tanya Mosley (15:33)

No, no, no. I will say, I will say, if you don't want to cut this in post, I'm not going to say it out loud, but I will say what you witness because I just want to tell the audience. So I was hanging out with Elise and some other really great friends recently, and a good friend of ours just had her big 50th celebration. And so, yeah, I'll just say it. I'll be 50 this year. And it was the first time that I said aloud in front of a group of people that I was going to be turning 50 and so, and now I'm saying it here, yes, you.

Elise Hu (16:04)

Are so much more, Tonya, than you have ever been before. Like, you've really come into yourself. You know, yourself. Like, you know what your boundaries are. Obviously you're glowing, you look excellent. But obviously that's like secondary to the fact that I think you've really stepped into yourself. And just as your friend, I. I love that for you. And it's something to celebrate as you turn this big milestone birthday.

Tanya Mosley (16:30)

I appreciate it and I'm getting there. That's the thing about it. That's why I said to you guys, I really revealed that I am turning 50. I think that if you pay attention and you look at the amount of experience I have, you can put two and two together. Like, oh, I didn't start when I was 12, you know, so.

Dori Shafrier (16:47)

Well, I will say I'm not shocked to hear that you are into Sephora and Korean skincare because you are literally glowing. Like, I can see it.

Elise Hu (16:55)

Truly.

Tanya Mosley (16:56)

I'm telling you, it's the oil, it's the oily skin, but I appreciate it.

Elise Hu (16:59)

And Tanya, we wanted to have you on because A, you're always asking the questions and so I thought it would be fun to have you get to be on the other side of the mic and answer the questions. And also as I was talking to Dory as we were prepping and before we came on, you know, you're one of my most deeply curious and soulful friends. You're very introspective. And so we are all going through this time where it feels like this time of relentless chaos. And our listeners have called in sort of asking for what we're doing to cope. They're talking about finding micro joys and this is a good space for it. So we just want to know how you are coping and what are you doing to kind of get through during this time, this really tilt a whirl time to be alive.

Tanya Mosley (17:48)

I appreciate that, Elise. It's something that I think a lot about too. And something came to me a few months ago when I was feeling tremendous amount of angst. I mean, I think all of us have had those moments where we feel just really overwhelmed. And when I feel really overwhelmed, my body almost shuts down where I just need to get under the covers and have a Saturday where I'm just hanging out in bed all day, to be honest. But then I realized, like, what makes me feel better is to be outward, to be with people, to give to people, to hear from Other people. That is what brings me life, what brings me joy. And so I decided to put together this thing that I've been doing now for a few weeks, and it really has been wonderful. So, you know, I love to have my kids volunteer, and we do a lot of volunteer stuff. But I also thought it would be really nice to use the thing that I love the most, which is storytelling, to help other people tell their stories. So I started this salon where it's a virtual salon and it's free. And I put the call out to folks, and I just said, if you're a storyteller of any kind and you want to talk stories, let's get together once a week on a zoom, and let's just talk it out. And I got such a huge, huge response that now it has become something that's a little more formalized, where I have cohorts. And for six weeks, I'm meeting with one cohort, and then in another six weeks, I'll do that. And these are folks from all over the world, not just like, California or the country. It's the world. And all of them are not journalists. In fact, they're just, like, a handful of journalists. Among them, these are people who have really important jobs. Police officers, nurses, doctors. There is one woman who is a social worker, and we talked about the ways that her work really is storytelling. Like, she has to go out and interpret what is happening with her clients, and then she has to write reports, and she has to be accurate in those reports. It is a matter of record. And so we talked a little bit about that, and we're going to be deepening her practice of writing outside of her work, which brings her a lot of freedom and joy. But it's just been so wonderful to interact with people and their lives in that way. It's something that I miss as a host that I don't get to do. When I was a journalist, a reporter out in the field, I had this connective tissue with people in a more profound way. And so it's helped me tremendously in this time to just be thinking about other people.

Elise Hu (20:13)

Yeah, yeah.

Tanya Mosley (20:14)

There were two things that happened that really brought this to me. One was, you know, we all get called to talk with people or young people or young journalists. And so I do a lot of these talks where I'm brought in, and I talk with college students or people who are part of a fellowship. And I had done one with the National Press association, and it was so good. I mean, meaning that not just the conversation, I had with them, but what they gave back to me and what they were sharing about their lives. I left that call feeling so energized and hopeful. And I said, I just want to feel more of that. And I also want to be able to give my knowledge. Oh, wait, like, okay, I'm turning 50, so I have a. I have some things that I can share. Right. So I thought, why not use that? Like, there's. And also it's. I come from a tradition of that. So I come from a family of really mission driven people. My mother was a social worker. My grandmother was a nurse practitioner. And my mom actually would do these things where she would just open her door and call out the neighborhood kids to come in the house and she would have story time with them. And these weren't just. Just like young kids. These were like, you know, big old teenagers sometimes riding their bikes past our home. And they would come in and, like, she might have a little snack, but we'd really dialogue over a piece of literature. And I love that experience. And I also realized, like, it's. It's such a low touch point for us to do that for each other, to build community in these spontaneous ways. And so it was the spontaneity of being able to use this. These platforms we have of just getting on there and saying, hey, let's get together. Yeah, that was. That was kind of the impetus for it.

Elise Hu (21:58)

Yeah.

Dori Shafrier (21:59)

Is that something that you do with your children as well?

Tanya Mosley (22:04)

Yeah, they listen to me if they want to, you know. No, we do a lot of. We do a lot of, you know, like, talking story time, that kind of stuff. Of course, I'm like that kind of parent. But it's funny you mentioned that, Dori, because last night I said to my son, who's almost 13, I have these cards where it's. They're like teen cards where you ask your teens a question and start a dialogue. Oh, cool. And I said to him, you've seen those? And I asked him, do you want to do some of those? And he said, no, I just want to chill, Mom.

Elise Hu (22:40)

I thought it was work.

Tanya Mosley (22:41)

Yeah, he thinks of that as work. I said, this is us chilling. Get to know each other. So, I mean, to answer your question, Dori, so sometimes it works, you know.

Dori Shafrier (22:50)

Right. But you know what? He probably, like, even though he can't, like, express it, I'm sure he appreciates that you seek out that connection.

Tanya Mosley (22:59)

I'm sure it'll come back to him in the same way that we felt about the things our parents did.

Dori Shafrier (23:03)

You know exactly.

Elise Hu (23:04)

Yeah, yeah.

Tanya Mosley (23:05)

Okay.

Elise Hu (23:06)

Well, on this topic of asking questions, you have been co hosting Fresh Air along with Terry Gross for a few years now. When did you start?

Tanya Mosley (23:14)

Two years. So two and a half years.

Elise Hu (23:15)

Okay, two and a half years now. Wow, time flies. I was curious how you think you've grown in the role, because obviously it's not your first rodeo. You've hosted a lot of shows before and have been a journalist for your entire adult life. But obviously Fresh Air is unique in its fervent, devoted audience. And then also how deep the conversations can go when you spend time with these cultural or, I guess, culture makers. So how do you feel like you have grown or learned or changed or expanded in the last two and a half years in this role?

Tanya Mosley (23:51)

Oh, my gosh, so many different ways. But I'm going to share something with you that will sound a little woo.

Elise Hu (23:59)

Woo, but I'm going to share it.

Tanya Mosley (24:01)

Anyway because I am a woo person. There was something that happened around six months into the job where I realized, wow, every person that I'm talking to is coming to me with a lesson or information that is applicable to what I need in my life right in that moment. And it started to happen almost with every single interview. And then I realized, okay, well, two things. Number one, Terri and I choose who we talk to. So even on a subconscious level, when I'm reading a piece of literature or someone's book or someone's piece of art through their movie or television show, like, I'm seeking out things that I'm interested in but that I also know the audience might like, too. But really, the exercise that I learned from Terri is Terri talks to people that she's super fascinated about, because you don't want to spend all that time with folks that you're just not really interested in their work. So on one hand, that makes sense, that everything that comes to me, these conversations, I'm gaining something from. But on a more profound level, they're oftentimes offering me a solution to a challenge that I am having in my own life or a block in understanding that I have come to through their work and their art. And that's just been really profound to me. And so I've learned to lean into that more, to lean into my instincts more, even in the conversations. And I found that. And I know you're a good, you both are really good interviewers. So you're probably going to ask me for an example of this, so I will come up with one as I'm talking. But there have been Times where I have held back and asked questions that I felt like the audience wants to know. And I realize, though, the breakthrough comes in asking the things that I really want to know. Oftentimes the questions that I ask that might come from a very personal place are the questions that resonate deeply with the audience that I hear the most feedback. That, oh, that part where you went here, that reminds me of my life, and here's how I am, like, bringing that to me, myself. That is the driveway moment, and those are the things that I've really grown in. And really, I mean, to put that more pointly, that I have really come into and grown as an interviewer on this show to understand.

Dori Shafrier (26:19)

I'm wondering what you feel like you and Terri have learned from each other.

Elise Hu (26:24)

Oh, wow.

Tanya Mosley (26:25)

You know, I can say from my point of view, what I have learned from Terri is to lean into who I am. And I say that because once I was on the inside and I got to see how the sausage was made, I understood that the show, the magic of the show, the magic of Fresh Air for the last 50 years has been because you are inside of Terri's mind. You are following her curiosities, you're following her taste, and that is what you are there for now. It is. I'll be frank. It is a challenge to step into that only because of that reason, because now I am a new property. But truly, in order for me to be the best at this job, I have to do that, too. I can't really come into it and be Terri light, you know, I can't come into it trying to choose things that I know. Oh, the sensibility of this show, which is really, Terry, here are the pieces of art or literature that she loves. Then I wouldn't be doing. I wouldn't be giving the audience truly what they come to Fresh Air for. Now, that means that there is a segment of the audience that feels, and it's just natural that, hey, this is not what I come here for. But what I have found over the last few years is that there is a large audience that is actually coming to the table because of what I bring. And I bring more recently, I've gotten a lot of feedback from people who say, I love Terri. And now I realize I love you, too. And that's a beautiful thing to know that there's space. Yeah.

Elise Hu (28:01)

I have to ask for the example, then. Where do you feel like you have added your special Tonya sensibility and taste to the show in a way that touched your life at the exact Same time that you needed it.

Tanya Mosley (28:17)

Oh, gosh, there's just so many. There's just so many. You know, I'm doing an interview almost every day or every other day, but, you know, I just recently interviewed Kiara Hudes, who wrote in the Heights, and she is a Pulitzer Prize winning playwright, and she just wrote her new novel, the White Hot, which is about a mother who chooses to leave her child to go on a journey of enlightenment. Chiara is such a talented writer. I mean, it's the type of writing that every sentence on the page, you just kind of gasp like, oh, this is beautiful. You're bringing language to something. But what she brings language to is really something that we only afford men, and that is the exploration of themselves, to be the journeyman, to search out in the world. And we're often pinned in by motherhood or that feeling, even though we all love what we are. And being a mother. And I realized that she had given me language to something that I couldn't quite articulate or would almost feel afraid to articulate. And that is, as I look at this, it's going to be like a theme throughout the show. As I enter my 50th year, I should have the right to explore who I am outside of the bounds of my identities as a mother, as a black person, as a woman, even, but as a human being. And it was reading her work that brought me closer to that for myself, but it also allowed me, in the conversation with her, to go to places that I could go as someone who holds those identities, to really go deeper into her psyche as she sat down to write this story that. I mean, for all intents and purposes, people would think of this woman as a villain. Like, this is sacrilegious that you would take this step and leave your child to go try to find yourself.

Elise Hu (30:13)

You know, though, you know, men get to do it in literature and in art commonly.

Tanya Mosley (30:18)

Right.

Elise Hu (30:18)

It's like the dad took off. We don't know where he is.

Tanya Mosley (30:21)

Right, Right. Absolutely.

Elise Hu (30:24)

Have there been interviews that you look back on over the last few years or even before that, where that. That stand out just because you liked the person a lot? I know you can't really dish the opposite. Like, you don't have to tell us who you don't like, but who are some people who you've just, like, really enjoyed?

Tanya Mosley (30:43)

Mm, so many people. I'll say. The great thing is I enjoy more people than not enjoy. Yeah, I will say that.

Elise Hu (30:52)

Yeah.

Tanya Mosley (30:53)

And I think I really go into this type of interviewing understanding that, like, it takes a lot to say I'm going to sit down and talk with somebody for 90 minutes and I don't know where they're going to take me. And we might go to some really deep places and we we're also going to talk about my personal life, just not my work stuff. So I hold that you I know it's a very sacred place to be in and so I hold it as such when I step into the conversations. And if I'm ever meeting somebody who I don't feel like really delivers in that way, I also understand that too. It doesn't help me for the interview. But look, this is a negotiation so.

Dori Shafrier (31:36)

We'Re just going to take a short break and we will be right back.

Elise Hu (31:42)

Hey y', all, it's Elise and this new year I really want to cook at home more. Need to save money and I want to cook more interesting foods at home. HelloFresh brings back the joy of the kitchen with recipes that feel good and taste good. Night after night you get to choose from 35 plus high protein weekly recipes including new Mediterranean and some GLP1 friendly options. Everything is made with wholesome ingredients like sustainably sourced seafood and 100% antibiotic and hormone free chicken. I love that. We can also get seasonal produce that's delicious like stone fruit or corn without having to worry about getting to the store. Because when dinner tastes this good, nothing hits like that. Home cooking go to hellofresh.com forever3510fm to get 10 free meals plus a free Zwilling knife which is a $144.99 value on your third box offer valid while supplies last. Free meals applied as discount on first box. New subscribers only varies by plan. It's time to channel that fresh start energy of the new year and finally launch your business with Shopify. 2026 is the year you rewrite your story, own your future and make your entrepreneurial dreams come true with Shopify. It gives you everything you need to sell online and in person. Whether you're a household name or a first time business owner just getting started, millions of entrepreneurs have already made this leap. You know you've seen that little purple button when you're shopping online at places like Rothy's or Allbirds. Shopify gives you all the tools to easily build your dream store by making the process simple. Choose from hundreds of beautiful templates that you can customize to match your brand and use Shopify's built in AI tools that write product descriptions and headlines and help you Edit product photos. Marketing is built in too, so you can create social campaigns, campaigns and email campaigns that reach customers in 2026. Stop waiting and start selling with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com forever35. Go to shopify.com forever35. That's shopify.com forever35. Hear your first this new year with Shopify by your side. This is a question that I truly don't know the answer to because Fresh Air is its own independent show and it's separate from any of the NPR shows I've worked on. Do you ever spike interviews after the fact?

Tanya Mosley (34:13)

What do you mean by spike?

Elise Hu (34:15)

Like you interview the person and then you don't air it.

Tanya Mosley (34:17)

Oh, that has never happened to me.

Elise Hu (34:19)

Okay.

Tanya Mosley (34:20)

But I'm, I'm sure it has happened on in Fresh Air's 50 year history. In fact, I am aware of a few. So that is, that's a really good question. No, I'm lying. Not on Fresh air. But there have been times where I've interviewed people and I'm like, whoa, okay, that ain't it.

Elise Hu (34:38)

Oh, well, that's not it.

Dori Shafrier (34:39)

Yeah.

Tanya Mosley (34:40)

But to answer your question about people that I just genuinely liked you and I talked about this before, but I absolutely adore Walton Goggins.

Dori Shafrier (34:49)

I mean.

Elise Hu (34:51)

You and Walton Goggins. The reason why I've talked about this before with Tanya is because I listened to that interview in my car and I'm like, like, man, I think they like each other. Like, they seem like they're friends. He's really opening up to her.

Tanya Mosley (35:05)

I loved him. And I will say he loved me. I mean, in the middle of the interview, he actually stopped and said, what a joy this is. I just want to tell you this has been a joy. And so sometimes that happens. I think he's a charismatic guy, but I also think some people just you click with and you could see like being a homie, too. Like, you know, that happens often.

Elise Hu (35:30)

Yeah. I also liked your interview with the Supreme Court Justice, Ketanji Brown Jackson.

Tanya Mosley (35:36)

Yes.

Elise Hu (35:36)

She sounds like she would be a fun hang. I mean, I guess we never get to hang out with Supreme Court justices, so it's a pipe dream.

Tanya Mosley (35:44)

But at least that's one that I wish I could do over, you know. Why when you. Well, first off the interview, it was such high stakes because she is a Supreme Court justice. She is only going to talk a few times in her life and one of them is with a memoir. And that is her, you know, she's putting that out as the record, and she'll talk about it, and she'll never talk about it again. And so I knew the high stakes of it. I was also in D.C. i had traveled there to interview her, and so we were in the same space together. All of her people were there. She had just done an interview right before me, and she was doing one right after me. And so I just kind of felt like, oh, when I sat down, there's just, like, a lot riding here. But I think just since I've done it, I have grown in such a way where I think I would have been able to handle that a little bit better and maybe even ground it myself so that we can have more of that opening. She's only gonna go as far as she wants to go, but I think you're right. She would be a great hang, and I think she wanted that opportunity to be able to show those parts of herself, and I think I showed a little bit, but I think I was also kind of nervous.

Elise Hu (36:56)

You know, somebody told me she was a theater kid or something.

Tanya Mosley (36:59)

Yeah, yeah, she was big in theater. I know theater kids are also earnest, and I think that, you know, there's an earnestness to her and to many people I know who've been in theater about their beliefs, about, like, how they walk through the world.

Dori Shafrier (37:15)

Mm.

Elise Hu (37:17)

Tanya, I wanted to ask you about the workplace, since we're kind of reflecting now that you are on the cusp of your birthday or at the start of your birthday year, because we have both been women of color coming up in television newsrooms where you have to kind of contort yourself to a bunch of invisible rules, and then also public media, where you also have to sort of accommodate a bunch of invisible rules. What do you think? What are some beliefs or ways of being in at work and ways of showing up at work you have now let go in order to make more of an impact and show up as more of your authentic self.

Tanya Mosley (38:02)

Oh, man. You know, I think I might have said even early on, in my early 20s, oh, I'm coming as myself. I'm stepping into these workplaces as myself. But I think that really, you know, you're a few years younger than me, but I really came up in a family and in a world where it was just expected that you would have on, like, two selves, that you would be your home self and then you'd be your work self. And it wasn't really until I started having younger colleagues, you know, truly, like millennials and Gen Z's who started to show me that, like, I'm bringing all my selves to the table. This is who I am. And I'll say, in the beginning, it felt kind of unnerving to see that in the workplace. I might have been one of those maybe a decade ago, who was like, come on, now, you really need to.

Elise Hu (38:53)

Button it up a little bit.

Tanya Mosley (38:55)

Or, like, you need to, like, at least perform, pretend, you know? But I will say, to my credit, there has always been a part of me that has wanted to be my authentic self as a black woman, in particular, because I wanted. I didn't want you. I wanted you to understand that I have come into this industry to do journalism, but really to write the record. Like, I chose this career because I wanted to show a truer version of who we are. And so to do that, I had to bring a sense of authenticity when I'm out in the field, when I'm talking to people, when I'm thinking about stories and construction. But as far as, like, how I behave within corporate spaces, it's something I'm really contending with even to this day, at least. Maybe this 50th year will also be the year that I deconstruct that as I try to come into, like, a fuller sense of who I am and being my full self. It's funny that you brought up local television or brought up television and then brought up public media. I will say, when I got to public media, I thought, oh, here's where I could really be my true self. Because some of the same parameters aren't the same here. Like, some of the things they required of me in commercial news, like, they don't care about that. And I was really relieved by that. But then I understood there were a whole construction of other things that I.

Elise Hu (40:19)

Was coming up against. I was like, oh, wait, there are. There's a whole nother set of rules here.

Tanya Mosley (40:24)

Yeah. And I think my age played a part, though, in me still feeling like I could bring myself and push. I just had the sophistication to kind of work through things in a way. But, yeah, it's still something I'm deconstructing for myself for sure.

Dori Shafrier (40:37)

What do you feel like is next for you career wise? Like, is. Is fresh air kind of the pinnacle for you? Or are there sort of. Do you feel like you have sort of, like, unfinished business in public radio.

Elise Hu (40:49)

Or elsewhere you're gonna come back on Forever35 to talk about your book?

Tanya Mosley (40:54)

See, this is why I don't want to tell people I'm turning 50 because they start to think, like, I'm coming on the down.

Elise Hu (40:59)

So is this. Are you? We do not believe that we are the school of peak when you're 90 and then die. I did.

Dori Shafrier (41:06)

That was not the implication. It was more like. I mean, to me, like, Fresh Air is like, I don't know, where do you go from there?

Elise Hu (41:14)

But just.

Dori Shafrier (41:16)

Cause it's.

Elise Hu (41:17)

How do you think about that?

Dori Shafrier (41:19)

Feels like such an amazing place to be. But I'm wondering, like, how do you feel?

Tanya Mosley (41:27)

Well, you know, I am a. I'm just a storyteller through and through. A lot of folks who come into journalism suffer from wanderlust. Like, it's part of what makes the job work, because every day it's something new. Every week, every year, you're going here, you're going there. You can fulfill all of that, you know, And Fresh Air fulfills so much for me because I have the ability to talk to anybody I want. But they know from the moment that I started there, you know, I consider myself a holistic storyteller. I'm a documentarian. I am a writer. I want to be able to tell the story in the mechanism and the medium where it can have its most potency and power. And sometimes that means a platform like Fresh Air. But then there are all of these other platforms. I mean, I think my main concern right now is making certain that I'm actually reaching the people that the conversations I want to have and I'm having, I know they would be enriched and benefited from. And so that doesn't necessarily mean just talking to the radio audience on Fresh Air. It can mean lots of different ways, and that includes that platform. But I think I also am thinking in those other ways. And I'm also just a creative. So I just want to. I want to write beautiful sentences and shoot beautiful scenes and tell stories of people and where they are. You know, those are the things that I think I was brought here to do.

Elise Hu (43:00)

Okay, I don't want to crib too much from Ezra Klein on this, but because you consume so much culture, you read so many books, you listen to so much music and podcasts, and see so much film and television, what do you want to recommend that's out there that you love? Like, if you had to do a top three top five in the world of culture, or what do you tell people? Or what do you recommend to people?

Tanya Mosley (43:29)

So oftentimes this comes down. I'm often recommending based on, like, the last few things that I saw.

Elise Hu (43:35)

Recency bias. Yeah. Heated rivalry.

Tanya Mosley (43:39)

Which I started watching because of you. I started watching.

Elise Hu (43:44)

I made a tuna melt today, which all the heated rivalry stands out there will know exactly what that means. Right? They brought back tuna melts and made them sexy again. So I was like, I'm gonna make a tuna melt anyway.

Dori Shafrier (43:55)

Go ahead.

Tanya Mosley (43:57)

Wait. And I told My daughter, who's 18, I have to say, I said, I saw Elise. And she was like, tanya, how could you have not seen that?

Elise Hu (44:03)

Like, come on. It's part of the culture.

Tanya Mosley (44:04)

Come on. And she was like, I mean, kind of, yeah, how could it be? You're too late on it. But anyway, no. Some art and culture. Like, I can recommend books. I mentioned the White Hot. Like, I think that the White Hot. It's a thin novel. Get it. You have to get it. You will read it in one sitting. It's absolutely amazing. There's this recent book by Heather Ann Thompson, Fear and Fury. And I think if you care about being an American, you should read is absolute stunning work. She's a historian, and it is about the 80s and how the 80s, Reagan era, 80s set the stage for where we are now. And a lot of these through lines, you know, but she puts it in such a way and she writes it with such clarity and research that it will give you language to have the conversation moving forward. If I'm thinking about some things recently that I have watched. Oh, Seurat. Seurat is an international movie that was filmed in Morocco. And it's stunning. It's heartbreaking. It doesn't hold any of the conventions of storytelling that you expect, but it arrives at a conclusion that will leave you thinking about it for days and wanting to have conversations with people about it. And I feel frustrated every time I bring it up. And I. I see a face like, oh, I don't know, because I really.

Elise Hu (45:32)

Want to talk about it, you know, how did this come to you? Did it get pitched to you? Like, how did you get to see Seurat?

Tanya Mosley (45:39)

Yeah, it was pitched to me. And oftentimes during award seasons, like, you will get invitations to go see films because they're gearing up for the awards. And so I take advantage especially of the international films because we don't typically have a lot of those on the show. And I just want to know when I'm watching the Oscars and this one International Film sweeps, you know, I want to be able to be a part of the conversation and know it, you know?

Elise Hu (46:03)

Yeah. But, Tanya, thank you so much for spending so much of your afternoon and giving us your energy and Your recommendations. It's been so lovely to have this conversation.

Tanya Mosley (46:16)

Thank you, guys. Dory and Elise, it's been a pleasure to talk to you.

Dori Shafrier (46:22)

Well, that was fun to get to talk to Tanya.

Elise Hu (46:25)

Yeah, she's great. She's great.

Dori Shafrier (46:27)

Thank you. She's really great. Elise, how did it go with drinking water? Are you hydrated.

Elise Hu (46:38)

Better at night? I have been good about. Yeah. Like, finishing an entire bottle of water, making sure that I have finished a bottle of water by the time I go to bed. But then I have to get up in the middle of the night sometimes, and I don't. I like to sleep through the night. You know, I don't want to do that. So I need to find the right time to be having all this water that I'm having. Probably first thing in the morning, but that could be an idea.

Dori Shafrier (47:07)

Okay.

Tanya Mosley (47:08)

Okay.

Dori Shafrier (47:09)

What do you have going on this week?

Elise Hu (47:12)

This week? What would be a good intention? I did not set an intention to set an intention before we started recording. But one thing that I noticed, especially because there was a little travel during the holidays, is that I haven't taken very good care of my plants. Like my. I lost an orchid rip. One of my many orchids. I lost one over the break. And then some of my other plants, they. They have a way of letting you know that they're not happy. And so my plants are kind of, like, mad at me. And so I'm working on that. I'm gonna, like, like, do some plant care. And there was a study that actually showed you should be talking to your plants. I don't know if it's because of the CO2 or what, but, like. So I'm going to try and just, like, let them know that I know they exist, but plant care is going to be my intention for the week.

Dori Shafrier (48:01)

Okay.

Elise Hu (48:02)

What about you?

Dori Shafrier (48:03)

That's a good one.

Elise Hu (48:04)

That's a good one. Yeah.

Dori Shafrier (48:06)

Well, my intention last week was to have fun in the desert, and I did. I had fun in the desert. And our team did really well. We were undefeated. We missed making the semifinals by, like, one line of a match. I personally won my match, and it was, like, a very satisfying win. So. Yeah. And just, like, generally, it was nice to, like, be with the team and hang out, and it was just like. It was a really. It was a really nice. Really nice weekend this week. Like, I have, like, a couple things that I'm sort of, like, waiting to hear about, and I'm gonna just, like, try not to get too stressed about them.

Elise Hu (48:51)

Yeah. So just being still.

Dori Shafrier (48:53)

Yeah. Being just being like present and not worry, like not fixating on the past or the future too much and being like it's hard to be okay with uncertainty. I find that very difficult. But going to try to be as okay with uncertainty as I can.

Elise Hu (49:15)

So that's a great intention.

Dori Shafrier (49:17)

Thank you. Thank you so much listeners. Thank you so much for being here with us. And just a reminder that Forever 35 is hosted and produced by me, Dori Shafriar and Elise Hu and produced and edited by Sam Hunio. Sammy Reed is our Project Manager and our network partners, AKA podcast. Thanks everybody.

Elise Hu (49:37)

Talk to you next time.

Tanya Mosley (49:39)

Bye.

Elise Hu (49:42)

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