Mini-Ep 432: Your Friendship Questions with Anna Goldfarb

Summary

Podcast Summary: Forever35 - Mini-Ep 432: Your Friendship Questions with Anna Goldfarb

Release Date: February 26, 2025

Hosts: Doree Shafrir & Elise Hu

Guest: Anna Goldfarb, Author of Modern Friendship

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Introduction

In this special Friendship Month mini-episode of Forever35, co-hosts Doree Shafrir and Elise Hu welcome Anna Goldfarb, a friendship expert and author of Modern Friendship. Together, they delve into listeners' questions about navigating friendships in adulthood, offering insightful advice and practical strategies to foster meaningful connections.

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1. Maintaining Old and Building New Friendships Amid Relocation

Listener’s Question (02:56 – 05:14): A listener, a married mother of a two-year-old, faces anxiety about maintaining long-standing friendships from Alaska while moving to Washington State. She prioritizes family and worries that focusing solely on existing relationships may lead to future loneliness.

Advice from Anna Goldfarb (05:14 – 08:14):

• Take It Slow: Friendships develop over time. "Friendships take a long time to build... focus on one or two friends at first" (05:20).

• Leverage Opportunities: With her child growing and participating in activities, she'll naturally meet new people. "This woman is going to be meeting a lot of new people" (06:00).

• Engage in Enjoyable Activities: Participate in hobbies or local events to meet like-minded individuals organically. "Lean into the things that you enjoy without thinking like, oh my gosh, I need to make friends" (07:00).

• Be Gentle and Flexible: Understand that friendships may look different with life changes. "Don't fight it. Try to surf the wave if you can" (07:30).

Notable Quote:

"Just start with a few people here and there. No need to get overwhelmed." — Anna Goldfarb (07:22)

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2. Navigating One-Sided Friendships

Listener’s Question (08:28 – 10:27): A listener describes long-term friendships where she is always the one initiating contact. Despite her friends being receptive, they rarely reciprocate, leading her to question the value of these relationships.

Advice from Anna Goldfarb (10:27 – 17:16):

• Assess the Friendship's 'About': Determine if the core reasons for the friendship remain compelling for both parties. "The about needs to be clear and compelling for both people" (10:45).

• Quality of Invitations: Ensure that meet-ups are engaging and align with friends' interests. "It's not about not liking you, it's that they're not liking the invitation" (12:00).

• Communication is Key: Initiate conversations about how to balance the friendship dynamics. "Ask for feedback. Like, would you want to get together more often?" (16:00).

• Understand Life Changes: Recognize that as people grow older, their availability and priorities shift. "We're changing, we're getting older. Free time is a premium now" (14:30).

Notable Quote:

"Friendships require more than just affection to stay active." — Anna Goldfarb (12:30)

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3. Handling Friendship Strain After Personal Life Twists

Listener’s Question (22:25 – 25:39): A listener shares a deep-seated issue with her best friend after discovering her biological father was not who she thought. Despite reconciling with newfound siblings, her BFF showed little interest and made hurtful comments during her turmoil, straining their once unbreakable bond.

Advice from Anna Goldfarb (25:39 – 30:26):

• Allow Yourself to Grieve: Acknowledge the pain of the changed friendship. "You need permission to grieve that this friendship isn't what you hoped it would be" (25:45).

• Set New Standards: Raise your expectations and seek friendships that meet your current emotional needs. "You need friends that care about this part of your life" (26:30).

• Open Communication: If possible, have an honest conversation about your feelings and the friendship's direction. "Talk about our friendship. We can say, ask for feedback" (16:45).

• Consider Friendship Dynamics: Reflect on whether your friend’s lack of support is part of a broader pattern of behavior. "Sometimes our friends are covert narcissists" (29:50).

Notable Quote:

"You can't beg someone to give you what you need. That's not how this works." — Anna Goldfarb (31:00)

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4. Coping with Friendships Changing Due to Life’s Milestones

Listener’s Question (30:32 – 40:47): A listener with a 35-year friendship feels neglected as her BFF, now expecting a second child, fails to honor promises of celebrating her 40th birthday. She struggles with balancing her identity as single and child-free against her friend's new family-focused life.

Advice from Anna Goldfarb (30:32 – 40:47):

• Understand Life Transitions: Recognize that major life events like pregnancy can shift a friend's availability and priorities. "Friendships shift in adulthood" (31:30).

• Support Over Expectation: Focus on supporting your friend’s new life phase rather than expecting the friendship to remain unchanged. "How can I best support her?" (35:00).

• Grieve Changed Dynamics: Allow yourself to mourn the altered nature of the friendship without holding onto resentment. "Grieve that this friendship isn't what you hoped it would be" (33:00).

• Embrace Flexibility: Adapt to the evolving friendship by being open to new forms of interaction and support. "This is about being flexible" (38:00).

Notable Quote:

"It's about being flexible... You need to have friends that care about different parts of your life." — Anna Goldfarb (39:00)

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Conclusion

Throughout the episode, Anna Goldfarb provides thoughtful and empathetic guidance on handling the complexities of adult friendships. From managing the balance between old and new relationships during life changes to addressing one-sided dynamics and evolving friendship roles, the discussion underscores the importance of communication, flexibility, and self-compassion in maintaining meaningful connections.

Recommended Resources:

• Modern Friendship by Anna Goldfarb
• Anna Goldfarb’s Substack: Friendship Explained

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• "Just start with a few people here and there. No need to get overwhelmed." — Anna Goldfarb (07:22)
• "Friendships require more than just affection to stay active." — Anna Goldfarb (12:30)
• "You can't beg someone to give you what you need. That's not how this works." — Anna Goldfarb (31:00)
• "It's about being flexible... You need to have friends that care about different parts of your life." — Anna Goldfarb (39:00)

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For more episodes and friendship insights, visit Forever35 on Acast.

Transcript

[Dory Shafrir]

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[Elise Hu]

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[Anna Goldfarb]

Oh yeah, they have amazing denim. I just got my first pair of jeans from Quints. I got the comfort stretch high rise relax straight jeans. I know that's a lot of adjectives. They're comfy like a, like a, like a semi wide leg with a high rise with a little bit of stretch. And they are just, they're just perfect. I'm wearing, literally wearing them right now. I've worn them almost like almost every day since I got them. They're the jeans I was looking for and they're $50. You would think these are like designer jeans.

[Elise Hu]

I love it.

[Anna Goldfarb]

I'm fully obsessed.

[Elise Hu]

Amazing. Well, Quince also cuts out the cost of the middleman, which is probably why they're $50. And passes those savings on to us and only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics that you can tell are in Dory's jeans. And Quince only works with factories, safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes.

[Anna Goldfarb]

Peace of mind while you give yourself the luxury you deserve with quint. Go to quint.comforever35 for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U I N C E.comforever35 to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quint.comforever35 Foreign hello and welcome to Forever35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Dory Shafrier.

[Elise Hu]

And I'm Elise Hu and we're just two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.

[Anna Goldfarb]

And this is a mini episode where we hear from you, we share comments and your thoughts and Usually we answer your questions to the best of our ability. But not today.

[Elise Hu]

Not today. Because it's Friendship Month.

[Anna Goldfarb]

It is Friendship Month. And we have Anna Goldfarb, bona fide.

[Elise Hu]

Friendship expert, the author of Modern Friendship, who you probably heard earlier this month.

[Anna Goldfarb]

Yes. On our first Friendship Month episode. She has kindly agreed to come back and answer your questions about friendship. And we got so many great questions, I don't think we're gonna have time to get to them all. But hopefully the ones that we get to will address a lot of the themes that came up. And just a reminder, you can call or text us at 781-591-0390. Email us at forever35podcastmail.com we're still taking all of your questions about any topic.

[Elise Hu]

Yes. They don't have to be about friendships.

[Anna Goldfarb]

They don't have to be about serum. Exactly. So, Anna, welcome back.

[Listener]

Oh my gosh. Thank you for having me. I'm a little, I have that like, northeast cold that's going around.

[Anna Goldfarb]

So everyone is sick.

[Listener]

Yes, yes.

[Elise Hu]

Well, it's not going to, it's not going to dampen the quality of your advice, I'm sure. So we can just launch straight in to questions. Let's do it from our audience. I'll just start with the first one. Hi, Dori and Elise and Anna, of course. Here's my question about friendships. First, a little bit about myself. I am married with a two year old son and my widowed mom lives very nearby and we're close. I have a handful of really close friendships where I live in Alaska and another handful of close friendships from college. This summer we will be moving from Alaska, where We've lived for 20 years, to Washington State. I feel like my priorities are maintaining those older friendships. But I also have an interest in building relationships with other mothers and parents. But because my time is limited, I've always prioritized family and the relationship with my mom. And I'm just not sure how to add friendship, especially as we're moving and potentially trying to build new community with other parents in a totally new location. It just feels kind of overwhelming. I have these core relationships with family and longtime friends, but worry I'm not building a local community or even that prioritizing family relationships will leave me lonely years down the line when my mom passes, what should I do?

[Listener]

This was a great question. I could sense the anxiety of trying to keep a lot of plates spinning in the air. And my advice to letter writer is to go slow. Friendships take a long time to build and it can Be very jarring when you move somewhere new and you're looking at these long established friendships you've had and you're looking at the new friends you have, you're like, this feels nothing like those great friendships I had where I used to live. My advice to her would be go slow. Just focus on one or two friends at first. You do not need to recreate an entire new social network. That's not realistic. But it sounds like there's a lot of opportunity that she's going to have with her kid getting older, her kid being part of different schools or different activities. This woman's going to be meeting a lot of new people and it's going to feel strange for her. It's a new skill to make friends as a busy adult with children. So it's. I would just really encourage her to go slow. And she's even projecting fears of like, in the future of how will I feel when my mom passes? Like, whoa. Like, you don't have to get that far ahead of yourself. Really look at it like season to season of what do I need this season? How much energy do I have? And my other piece of advice is you might be holding yourself to an outdated standard of when you had more time to pursue friendships. So you're different now. You're going to be in a new community with a child and re establishing yourself and it's going to feel different. But nothing's wrong. This is how it works. It just takes a long time and just start with a few people here and there. No need to get overwhelmed. Be very gentle with yourself and very flexible too. Friendships might look a little different when you have kids. And don't fight it. Try to try to surf the wave if you can.

[Anna Goldfarb]

I love your advice about kind of like not getting too far ahead of ourselves. Right. Like, one thing at a time. I know when I am going into a new situation or a situation that is sort of like anxiety provoking, it is easy to sort of spiral and catastrophize about things that, like, might not even come to pass. And I think that's such a good reminder to just sort of take things day by day. I wanted to add one thing, which is maybe just start by doing some things that you enjoy. Like if you have a hobby, go to a craft night at a local store. You know, just like kind of lean into the things that you enjoy without thinking like, oh my gosh, I need to make friends, because maybe they'll come more organically.

[Listener]

Yeah, it's a lot of pressure. You're putting on yourself to have it figured out. So take the pressure off of this is a new adventure. Let's see what happens and just go in with that mindset.

[Elise Hu]

Love that.

[Anna Goldfarb]

So this next question. I feel like we got a number of versions of this question and I think we got this question so much because it is such a common dilemma, especially as we age. And I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. So here it is. How do you handle one sided friendships? By one sided I mean friendships where conversations slash get togethers are always being planned by the same person. In my case, obviously it's me. I have a small group of what I used to consider really good friends that I have known since high school slash college. One particular friend has been my best friend since we were six years old. But for many years now, the only time I see or speak to any of them is when I am the one to initiate contact. They always seem very happy to talk to me or get together, but then months will go by and I won't hear anything from them. I used to initiate stuff more often, but honestly I started to feel really insecure and paranoid about myself and the relationships. If any of these people really wanted to spend time with me, wouldn't they get in touch with me on occasion? As the saying goes, if you have the same problem with everyone, maybe you are the problem. I've tried talking to each of my friends about this and they all had some variation of this response. Yeah, we keep meaning to reach out and call you slash invite you over, etc. But you know, life is really busy and stuff. We'll definitely plan something together soon. And then weeks or months go by and nothing. I'm not sure what to do. Do I just accept that all of these people are not my friends anymore and try to make new ones? Or do I take them at their word that they're actually just too busy to think about getting in touch with me and continue to be the one to initiate everything? This has been really eating away at my self confidence. I'm starting to feel like my husband and son are the only people in my life who actually like me, especially since I lost my mother six months ago. She and I used to talk on the phone several times a week and have dinner together at least once a month. Losing that has made me so much more aware of how isolated I've become, particularly since the pandemic.

[Listener]

Well, good news is I wrote a book about exactly what's happening and I really deeply felt with this letter. This is something that so many people have a turmoil in their friendships about this, about initiating, feeling like you're putting all the effort in and resenting it. So let's talk a little bit about what's going on. What's going on is that this is an older friendship, this is a long standing friendship, and what this friendship about has changed. Okay, let's go back to the basics about desire in a friendship. Every friendship needs an about, and the about needs to be clear and compelling for both people in the friendship. What I'm hearing is that the about of these friendships is either changed or outdated or absent. There is no about. There is no reason to keep being in touch. So these invitations aren't getting a lot of excitement because the invitations aren't compelling. So this is the mistake that a lot of people make is they think affection is enough to keep a friendship active, but it's not enough. People need more compelling reasons to get together. So I don't think this is a personal issue. I think she's internalizing what she's seeing, but it's more about the quality of her invitations. Are you asking people to do stuff that they're really interested in doing apart from you? If your friend is a Timothee Chalamet head and you're like, hey, do you want to see the new Timothee Chalamet movie? That's really interesting to them. If you come with no, nothing compelling of let's get together, it's not enough. And you know, it's not about not liking you, it's that they're not liking the invitation. So this is good news. This is information you can use to your benefit of what could I, what do my friends want to be doing with their time and how can I help them? You know, they might be way more interested in, you know, moving their body, reading books, doing other things. So you might have more success saying what is important to you right now. What can I help with? What are you interested in doing and where can I fit in? How can I be a part of it? What do you think, Elise?

[Elise Hu]

Well, just to be clear, I just wanted to jump in because it sounds like she says that people are accepting her invitations and they have a good time, but she is not being reciprocally invited. And so I guess my follow up question is just, does it matter who is initiating? I, I, when this, when versions of these questions come in, I'm usually like, oh gosh, I don't even know. I don't know if I'm always the one initiating or the other. People are, you know, like, I guess it's just not something that I'm conscious of. And maybe I do initiate all my friendship get togethers, but does it matter?

[Listener]

Well, it. It's if I think it's fine if one person does all the initiating. It's only a problem if someone feels negatively about it, if they're feeling resentful about it. And so I have some friendships where they do all the initiating, and they love it because they're. We're doing stuff that they want to do, and I'm just down to clown. I'm like, yeah, let's do it. Let's make it happen. Yeah. But if my friend came to me and said, I feel a type of way that I'm always reaching out, then I'll say, okay, well, let's figure this out. Well, here's stuff I want to do. If this were a friendship where we wanted to change the dynamic, then we need to discuss what is our friendship about. I think that with friendships that started when you're a lot younger, you get in these patterns and you just assume, like, oh, well, she's always been the one to initiate. She must be very comfortable with that role. So it's more just things have changed. We're changing, we're getting older. Free time is a premium now. It's not a given that we have endless time to hang with our friends, getting drinks or getting together. So I think it's not. I think it pains me to see her internalize what is a very natural shifting as people get, you know, they take on new roles, new identities, they have new obligations. And that's the part that pains me that she's internalizing it. And I don't think she's spending enough time thinking, what do my friends want to be doing? What do they want to be doing once a week with me? You know, what am I bringing to the table? How am I helping them with their life? Right now? It's not so much, I want to see you, I want to get together. Not saying she's doing that on purpose, but if the result is it's not getting. It's the. The friendship isn't active, then I would look at the invitations of how can we make this more compelling for them?

[Elise Hu]

Got it, Got it.

[Anna Goldfarb]

I also wonder if there's an element of, like, feeling especially hurt that maybe her friends haven't stepped up after her mom died.

[Listener]

Yeah, they may not know what she needs. You know, a lot of friendship is uncertainty. I mean, a lot of modern friendship is uncertainty of I don't know what she needs. She might want space. And so this is the part where we can help our friends by modeling. This is how I practice friendship. We can talk about our friendship. We can say, ask for feedback. Like, would you want to get together more often? Like, is there. Do you like text mess? Do you want to talk on the phone? What works for you and your friends might appreciate you acknowledging that they've changed, that their lives have changed, that they're interests have changed, maybe their finances have changed and they can't get together for the dinners that you'd want to get together for. You know, like, people are complicated and unpredictable. So I would say to work with that of, hey, things might have changed since I saw you six months ago. Bring me up to speed. Like, how can I be a better friend to you right now? And if you're unhappy with a lopsided friendship, then it's totally fine to bring it up. I would. Why don't you, you know what's more important to you that we do? Like, let's, let's shift things a bit. Let's make sure that you're feeling heard in this friendship too, that it's not just me sending invites and then resenting it. Like, let's be a little more mature about this. Of, we're adults now and we're in charge of how we spend our free time. So let's talk about what, what's the vibe?

[Elise Hu]

Okay.

[Anna Goldfarb]

I love that. All right, we're going to take a short break and we will be right back with some more friendship questions. My skin gets bone dry in the winter and I always need a little something extra to get it moisturized and keep it moisturized. That's my skin goal this winter. Stay moisturized and feeling confident in your skin starts with getting expert care. That's why we're excited to partner with Apostrophe. Whether you're dealing with acne, signs of aging, or dark spots, Apostrophe helps you get access to the right treatments for your skin. I just popped into their online platform, completed a few questions, snapped a few photos, and received prescription strength tretinoin and niacinamide that I've been using for a while now. Get access to an expert dermatology team to get customized acne and dermatology treatment for your unique skin. Apostrophe is offering a special deal for Forever 35 listeners. Get your first visit for only $5 at apostrophe.com Forever35 when you use our code Forever35, that's a savings of $15. This code is only available to Forever 35 listeners. To get started, just go to apostrophe.com Forever35 and click Get Started. Then use our code Forever35 at signup and you'll get your first Visit for only $5. Thank you Apostrophe, for sponsoring this episode.

[Elise Hu]

Life is worth a little luxury now and then. And the best kind of luxury is the one you can afford. Quince offers a range of high quality items at prices within reach, like 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters from $50, washable silk tops and dresses, organic cotton sweaters, 14 karat jewelry. That's 50 to 80% less than a similar brands and denim. Right Dor?

[Anna Goldfarb]

Oh yeah, they have amazing denim. I just got my first pair of jeans from Quint. I got the comfort stret stretch high rise relaxed straight jeans. I know that's a lot of adjectives. They're like a, like a, like a semi wide leg with a high rise with a little bit of stretch. And they are just, they're just perfect. I'm wearing, literally wearing them right now. I've worn them almost like almost every day since I got them. They're the jeans I was looking for and they're $50. You would think these are like designer jeans. I'm fully obsessed.

[Elise Hu]

Amazing. Well, Quince also cuts out the cost of the middleman, which is probably why they're $50. And passes those savings on to us. And only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics that you can tell are in Dory's jeans. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes.

[Anna Goldfarb]

Peace of mind while you give yourself the luxury you deserve with quince. Go to quince.comfore35 for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E.comfore35 to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.comfore35 February is the month of love, and there's nothing I love more than treating myself to a comfortable bra. Seriously, life is too short. Wear bad bras. Luckily, today's episode is brought to you by Honey Love, the brand that has completely revolutionized the wireless bra. I love my Honey Love crossover bra, maybe more than any other bra ever. It's comfortable and supportive and it can be for all shapes and sizes of boobs. I don't have to pull it down or adjust all day because it's actually comfortable and fits me in my body. And if you are tired of bras that cause bulging in the back. Honeylove's bras are designed with back smoothing fabric to prevent bra bulge. Check out their V neck bra for a totally smooth fit under clothing. It offers the support of a traditional bra without the uncomfortable underwire. It has molded cups that are designed to lift and separate. It's not a shelf like bra so you won't get a uni boob effect. Treat yourself to the most comfortable bra on earth and save 20% off site wide at honeylove.com forever. Use our exclusive link to get 20% off honeylove.com forever. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them and please support our show and tell them we sent you. Treat yourself to Honey Love because you deserve it.

[Listener]

Yeah, sure thing. Hey, you sold that car yet?

Yeah, sold it to Carvana.

Oh, I thought you were selling to that guy.

The guy who wanted to pay me in foreign currency, no interest over 36 months. Yeah, no. Carvana gave me an offer in minutes, picked it up and paid me on the spot. It was so convenient.

[Dory Shafrir]

Just like that.

[Anna Goldfarb]

Yep.

[Listener]

No hassle?

None.

That is super convenient. Sell your car to Carvana and swap hassle for convenience. Pickup fees may apply.

[Anna Goldfarb]

All right, we are back.

[Elise Hu]

Okay, strap in. Anna Goldfarb It's a little bit of a longer one. I have a long time BFF of 35 years. Our friendship spans through the awkward teen years and then all the life stages after that. We truly support each other and love to celebrate each other's wins. We vacation together nicely. We have different family backgrounds, growing up with different financial means. We've had very different career paths. Our lives have taken us on interesting journeys and we've made very different life choices over the years, but we still support each other. This friendship is the closest I have ever felt to unconditional love outside my marriage. That is, until my DNA results came in with a surprise result. Very long Story short, the DNA test that I took just for fun revealed my father was not my father. I considered this good news as I am long estranged from my problematic parents. I then embarked on a difficult and emotional investigation to find out who is my DNA dad. The investigation took 10 days with help from a search angel I met online and we discovered my DNA dad had unfortunately long passed away. However, he had been married for decades and had a large number of children with his wife. I now have a large number of new siblings. Emotionally processing this news was difficult. So much of who you think you are can change in the blink of an eye. As I was mulling over my options and debating how and when to approach my new siblings, there are no rules for this messy surprise and I wanted to be kind and considerate, my BFF said something so very hurtful that I cannot shake. This was five years ago. I have since met my new siblings and they're fantastic. They have supplied missing information and generously shared pictures of DNA dad with me, so I have most of the gaps filled in my weird tangly life story. My BFF makes no inquiries about my new siblings. That in combination with the hurtful comments she made whilst I was mid twin turmoil has been hard to let go. It's like a pebble in my shoe. It was a small offhand comment to her at the time, but wow, it's really been weighing on my heart for five years. The most obvious solution is to talk to her about it and I've tried a few times. The first time she just changed the subject, which is not like her. The second time I tried a different approach. I told her I know she would not have made the same decision and that's okay. I asked her if she didn't want to hear news about this part of my life and that I wouldn't give her more updates. She totally backpedaled and said no. She supports me and wants to hear all about it, but the minute I share even a small tidbit she changes the subject and never asks any follow up questions. This is the opposite of everyone else in my life who's so interested in such a weird and wonderful twist. So it's obvious that my BFF doesn't want to hear about it and also doesn't want to discuss her feelings about it with me. It feels like she wants to carry on as usual. I am finding that difficult and have been struggling to spend the same amount of quality time with her. We have continued to support each other with other life events, career changes, etc. It's just doesn't feel the same to me anymore with this pebble in my shoe. Do I go in for a third discussion attempt? Do I just let it go and give her the grace that she also was swept aside with this surprise twist in my life? Do I wait it out hoping time will heal this wound?

[Listener]

This was a really interesting question and I think part of it is that I think the letter writer needs permission to grieve that this friendship isn't what you hoped it would be. You know, there are times when I've had a friend who I really wanted them to care about something in my life, and they couldn't for whatever reason. And what changed was I said, I need my friends to care about this. I need to raise my standards. I need to have friends that care about me and care about this part of my life. And maybe this friendship isn't what I thought it was, and I had to grieve it. And, you know, this friendship has been so long standing for decades, and I think that puts a lot of pressure on this friendship to be everything and be in sync with you for all these parts of your life. And part of the. I think the best thing she can do is grieve the friendship. This isn't what I thought it was. And realize that the strongest place to come from is when we have friends that play different roles for us. So clearly this friend played a really important role to the letter writer, but maybe that role, they no longer play that role. If they can't support you and show interest in something that you've asked them to show interest in, then, girl, you got to grieve this friendship. You can't. You can't beg someone to give you what you need. You know, it's. That's not how this works. And it's, It's. It's hard, it's disheartening. But I think that that'll. That'll free you up. You need friends that care about this part of your life. What do you think, Dori?

[Anna Goldfarb]

It's interesting because I feel like in the last question, it was like, make sure your friends know what you need. You know, you need to tell your friends what you need. And then in this one, it's like your friend can't give you what you need. And I do think it's important to acknowledge that, like, sometimes your friends just aren't going to be able to give you what you need. I think to me, it feels like there's like a couple things going on here. One is the hurtful comment that she made five years ago. Yeah, we. I mean, you don't say what it was. We also don't know if there was any, like, resolution there. Like, does she even know that it was really hurtful to you? Because I feel like that could be somewhere to start. Because it does seem like you're kind of holding on to that a bit. And then, you know, this friend also making no inquiry inquiries about your new siblings. I guess I would just. I don't know, I guess I would sort of ask myself if I were in your shoes, I would ask myself, like, why is it so important to me that this friend in particular, and I know she's your bff, but why is it so important to me that she kind of, like, show interest in this aspect of my life? Because for whatever reason, it's not clear why, she seems to have some sort of block about this. Maybe it brings up something for her that, like, she's not comfortable with. Maybe there's something in her life that we don't know about that she hasn't told you about that is making her, like, really shy away from this. But her, her reaction to me feels like, beyond just, like, disinterest. Like, it feels to me like it's sort of deeper. So, you know, I would maybe, like, lead with curiosity. And I know you've tried a couple times, but I do think it's maybe worth trying one more time. And, you know, just saying, hey, you know, I've just noticed that when I bring this up, you don't seem interested. And I'm just wondering if there's something going on and maybe that would give you, like, some closure. I don't know.

[Listener]

I think that. I think that she resents. She has to keep asking. Again, I'm getting a sense of this pain there, of why do I have to keep trying to suss out why this is off limits for you? And what this is bringing up for me is sometimes our friends are covert narcissists. Sometimes you have something going on and then all of a sudden your friend is like, oh, I can't engage with this news you have because it makes them feel less special or less like, whatever. And I would need more information, more data of how are they with other people? Do they have other close friends? Do they have happy relationships? Like, I would look at how they treat other people in their orbit and try and get more information.

[Anna Goldfarb]

That's a good point too.

[Listener]

Great advice.

[Anna Goldfarb]

All right, we are going to take another short break and we will be right back with a couple more questions.

[Elise Hu]

We'll be right back.

[Anna Goldfarb]

All right, we are back with another interesting question. I have had a best friend since sixth grade. We're 40 now. I've thrown all the classic best friend life parties for her. Bachelorette, bridal shower, baby shower, etc. She and I have talked in the past about how I feel like it is unfair that as a single and child free person, I do not get celebrated in the same way as people do who are married with kids. She had said that she would throw me a 40th birthday party. When the time came, there was no party. Honestly, very little acknowledgement of my birthday at all. She's pregnant with baby number two and I know that changes things, but I feel away. She's throwing herself a party, but I'm feeling like I give a little too much. I'm finding myself pulling away from her and I don't know how to really have the conversation with her about this, but am I in the wrong here? My identity is single and child free and how people should be celebrated for them and not for their joining with another human is a huge part of my life and I feel let down. Thank you, girl.

[Listener]

Like, this is something that is very common and that I see a lot. You know, I understand that letter writer feels abandoned by this, but the difference is one friend is in survival mode of having kids, being pregnant and having all these other things, concerns. And one friend is more focused on their wants of like, I want my friend to be available. I want my friend to be more, you know, present in our friendship. So this is a classic case of needs versus wants. The pregnant friend has needs. She cannot, you know, her situation has changed and it's not realistic to expect that their dynamic would be unaffected by these changes. And I understand that the letter writer is feeling sort of self pity or feeling a type of way of how come my friend isn't there for me and this really sucks. And I would encourage them to turn down the volume on thoughts like that and turn up the volume of my friend has all these things going on. How can I best support her? Because when you start tallying what your friend has done or not done for you, you're, you've already like losing the plot. Because the friendships shift in adulthood and this is a long term friendship. And they've had these patterns and dynamics from them when they're, when they were much younger. And that dynamic may not translate to adulthood. There are going to be changes. There's going to be, you know, difference in all sorts of things. Resources, free time, leisure, money. Like those things are going to change when you're married and have kids. So it's normal. I'm like, girl, I want to hug you and say this is so normal. But it's also, if it's not gonna, it's not gonna help you if you dwell on what you're losing and what your friend's not doing for you now because she has kids. What do you think?

[Elise Hu]

This actually goes back to the question earlier about who's initiating. I guess I've just never thought about my friendships or the outreaches that way. And I'm so glad because it must. It feels like it would be a psychological tax to kind of tally or just track and make sure. It's like, oh, I've asked you, and then Anna asked me. Or I asked Dory, and then Dory asked me. I don't. I don't feel like my relationships work that way. And. And they generally don't. And, like, so long as my friendships are ones in which the time we spend together is really fulfilling and we come away with it just, like, with lots of laughter and joy, then I'm not really concerned, you know, and then they also, like, show up. So I'm not really concerned if I'm initiating more or even initiating the majority of the time, you know, or the wide majority. So so long as you're still enjoying each other, I think, is the main thing.

[Listener]

What this letter writer should do is tell her friend, I get that you need. You cannot spend as much time in our friendship as much as you would like. I get that. And my door is always open for you. I love you. Like, I get it. This season, you have these other things going on, and it doesn't diminish the deep care I feel for you. That's what needs to happen. But first is grieving again. Grieving that this friendship isn't what you hoped it would be. Now, you know, I've certainly lost friends or had friendships decrease in intensity when my friend has kids. And this is what I did. I sat her down and said, I know you think about me all the time. I know you wish that we could be together. I know that this isn't possible right now. And I get it. And I'm here for you and really be the kind of friend that you would want your friend to have. I would think you'd want your friend to feel supported and seen and saying, you're a mom now. I get it. And that would make your friend actually love being in the friendship with you. So I wrote a newsletter about this very thing. If the letter writer wants to see.

[Elise Hu]

It, we can link to it.

[Listener]

Yeah. See more information about this because it's been written about a lot of people who feel abandoned by their friends who move on to different roles. So it's understandable. But there's another way to react instead of to come with receipts, you know, what do you think, Dory?

[Anna Goldfarb]

I mean, I. I'm like. I'm. I don't know. I have a few thoughts. Like, I think you're totally right. I also think that I, I do have like a little bit more empathy, I think, for this letter writer just because it is really hard. And I think partly because I was so like enmeshed in the infertility community and the child free community and people who are child free not by choice. And it's destabilizing, I think, in a way that I think is hard to understand if you haven't gone through it. So I do feel like a lot of empathy for this person. That said, it does sound like your identity is really wrapped up in being child free. I mean, you even say it and it seems like perhaps unintentionally, like this is a little alienating to your friend. Just the way you phrase, like people should be celebrated for them and not for their joining with another human. Like, oof. That, that like that's a little, that's a little harsh. You know, I think there's room for both. Like we can celebrate people for themselves and also for joining with another human. Like that is also a beautif. Beautiful and exciting thing. And for you to just sort of dismiss it so cavalierly. I, I think if I were your best friend and I knew that that was your attitude, I would probably, that would give me some pause. I think at the same time your friend is leaning on you for all of these like life events, although it seems like most of them were before she had kids. Right. Like it was like bachelorette, bridal shower, baby shower. So it does seem like maybe there's been a subconscious pulling away because she senses this from you.

[Listener]

Yeah.

[Anna Goldfarb]

And that's something that, you know, I think you need to like reckon with on your own. But yeah, I also wonder like, did you even like mention the, the fact that she had said she would throw you a birthday party like you, you don't say that. So it almost seems to me like you were sort of passive aggressively waiting for this person who seemingly just had a baby to like remember that they had offered to throw you this big party and, and then sort of like the pro. The self. It was a self fulfilling prophecy that like then came true. Like you're, you're sort of setting her up to fail. That's, that's my read on the situation. And you know, I think it's a tough situation, but I think Anna's right in that like these relationships do really change and you have to accept that the nature of your friendship has changed. And how do you want to kind of move forward from that?

[Listener]

It's about being flexible. And I think that this writer is feeling very rigid. Like, I want my 40th birthday with you. I want you to throw it. And that makes it that you're not setting your friends up for success when you come in with this rigidity. I mean, I think you'll have way more success if you're like, dude, I get it. You're a mom now. Like, what can I do to help you? What can I do to support you and lean into other friendships and, like, have a web of support? I think you're putting a lot of pressure on this friend, and she's not set up for success with these. With these rigid expectations. And she's just. And I think the letter writer's winding herself up of, like, well, and also, I didn't get this, and I didn't get a party, and no one celebrates me. And it's like, whoa, take a step back. Read my book Modern Friendship, and I think it'll help you understand. Here are the changes that I'm seeing. Here's why they're happening. And it's not personal. It's not personal. And you can still be friends with someone, even if the intensity changes. It's okay.

[Anna Goldfarb]

Yep.

[Listener]

Okay. Did we solve it? Did we just solve.

[Anna Goldfarb]

We solved it. We solved for everything. Well, Anna, thank you so much for coming on the show again. Do you want to remind our listeners about your book and where they can find you?

[Listener]

Yeah. My book, Modern Friendship, is for anyone that feels like they have a hundred friends and zero friends at the same time. And if you want to know more about why you feel that way, definitely pick up my book. I'm here to help you feel empowered, help you feel settled, help you feel realistic about how your friendship should look in adulthood. And you can find me online at Anna Goldfarb and I have my substack Friendship Explained, where I talk about all of these issues of here's what's going on, here's why you're feeling the way you feel. It's going to be okay. Just come sit with me and we'll get you through this, I promise.

[Elise Hu]

Fantastic. Anna, thank you so much for coming back.

[Listener]

Oh, my God. Thank you for having me. I wish I could talk to you all the time.

[Anna Goldfarb]

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[Anna Goldfarb]

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[Listener]

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[Dory Shafrir]

Okay.

[Elise Hu]

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