Mini-Ep 464: Is The Juice Worth The Squeeze?

Summary

Forever35: Mini-Ep 464 — Is The Juice Worth The Squeeze?

Hosts: Doree Shafrir & Elise Hu
Date: October 8, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this candid and engaging mini-episode, Doree and Elise tackle everyday questions about self-care and adulting: Do night creams really make you look well-rested? Is quitting coffee worth the misery? Can cleaning out your closet spark real joy—and, honestly, what even is a gratitude practice? The hosts answer listener questions, read feedback and advice from the Forever35 community, and share stories about social burnout, career pivots, setting boundaries at work, and building community during tough times. As always, their discussion is infused with self-awareness, wit, and a dash of gentle realism about modern womanhood.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Magic of Community: Listener Wisdom (01:21–02:29)

• Doree and Elise highlight the unique knowledge and community-building of their listenership.
  • “There’s just always, like, some random esoteric knowledge that our listeners have. So we appreciate you. We appreciate your expertise in the face of our non-expertise.” – Doree (02:17)
• They reminisce about fun, unexpected listener contributions (e.g., tutu cleaning advice).

2. Social Energy, Burnout & Self-Care (02:29–09:49)

• Spontaneous NYC-Style Social Nights in LA:
  • Elise recounts a rare, magical night that included a Lucinda Williams show, running into friends unexpectedly, and an afterparty for Jade Chang’s book launch.
  • “In LA...those of us that are in certain neighborhoods are pretty married and connected to our neighborhoods and try not to leave them too much.” – Elise (02:57)
  • Her friend Alex tells her, “I can see how it would be very exhausting to be your partner and have to do it every night.” (06:19)
• Pacing & Intervals in Social Life:
  • Elise describes her cycle of ‘intervals’—going hard socially, then needing downtime.
  • Doree shares her own shift from a nightly-out-in-NYC lifestyle to a more selective, low-battery social life in LA, choosing events and friends more carefully.
  • “My social battery is low these days… I just feel like I’m just showing up for the people that I’m close with...” – Doree (07:47)
• Cooking Provides Social Sanctuary:
  • Doree realized she enjoyed her annual Hanukkah "Latke Fest" parties partly because cooking in the kitchen provided a helpful buffer from intense socializing. (09:31–09:49)
  • “I did not have to be out in…doing too much engaging. And this did not dawn on me until much later.” – Doree (09:33)

3. Listener Voicemail: Government Shutdown & Gratitude Practice (10:27–14:44)

• Powerful Listener Message (Erica, Atlanta, furloughed CDC worker):
  • Erica shares gratitude for the Forever35 public sector Signal group and the sense of community during the government shutdown.
  • “CDCers in particular are really tired and traumatized and demoralized, especially with the compounding effects of the pandemic... We took an oath to uphold the Constitution, and it’s becoming harder and harder to live out my values and uphold that oath...” – Erica (11:29–12:27)
• Hosts' Response:
  • Elise delivers a heartfelt acknowledgment of federal workers, stressing the power of connectedness and mutual support.
  • “Federal workers out there, know that you are on our hearts and minds and give yourselves a lot of grace. ...It is really important that you stay in communication with your communities about what's going on and what you're fearing and what you're feeling.” – Elise (12:29–14:00)
  • Doree echoes the importance of community and empathy.

4. Career Pivots, Entrepreneurship & Media Work (19:05–24:35)

• Listener Question:
  • Asks Doree about teaching or monetizing expertise, and Elise about starting a production company.
• Doree on Entrepreneurship:
  • Doree confesses that the “marketing of yourself” is challenging for her:
    • “If someone was like, ‘Here, do you want to do a course? Great, I will do all the promotion for it…and get you customers,’... I’d be like, ‘Amazing, I’ll do the content.’ But it’s the other stuff that I find really hard and doesn’t come naturally to me.” (20:20)
• Elise on Running a Production Company:
  • Describes co-founding a business, the importance of having a partner with complementary skills, their B2B podcasting work, and steep learning curves regarding finances and business structure.
  • “In businesses, you have to have the minder and the finder and the grinder. ...I am kind of the finder...but I’m not doing the minding and grinding…” (21:23)
  • She reflects with Texas wisdom: “Is the juice worth the squeeze?” (22:53)
  • Discusses the non-linear nature of careers and possible changes ahead.
• Essay Coaching as a Pivot:
  • Doree is reminded that coaching for private college admissions is lucrative and recalls having done essay tutoring after college.
  • Elise points out, “I don’t think our careers are linear. I think our careers kind of zigzag. ...Everything old can be new again.” (24:28–24:35)

5. Burnout, Boundaries at Work, and Working Motherhood (25:06–29:23)

• Boundaries in Consulting and Ad Work:
  • A listener texts in to say she works in advertising and consulting, and rarely works outside 9–5—proof that strong boundaries are possible in such industries.
  • “Love that. That’s amazing. You sound like a boundary queen.” – Doree (25:43)
• Listener Voicemail: Reframing Burnout for Parents:
  • Another listener encourages a ‘reframing’ for working parents: acceptance that you cannot give 100% to everything post-kids, and that it’s okay to prioritize family and set stricter work boundaries.
  • “You’re going to be able to give 80% to your partner and 70% to work…Quiet quit...Do your job, do it well, turn it off and...focus on those babies...” (26:07–27:44)
  • Notes how this dynamic contributes to the uneven burden on women in the workforce.
• Host Reflections:
  • Elise and Doree agree that strong relationships with managers can help negotiate better work-life balance.

6. Small Joys & Organizational Hacks (33:08–37:02)

• Executive Functioning Tip:
  • A listener finds success using bag tags (suggested on a previous episode) to streamline her daughter’s dance gear prep—promoting independence and reducing stress for parents.
  • “Now she's doing everything independently and isn't forgetting everything. So thank you so much.” – Listener (33:08–34:12)
  • Elise shares her “one rescue per school year” rule for forgotten items.
• Jeans Recommendation Chatter
  • Doree fields multiple requests for her Amazon stretchy barrel-leg jeans, discusses sizing and fit specifics.
  • “If you are tall, these are not for you. But if you are 5'2" to 5'6", these are probably great for you. ...They run a little small in the waist...So I would size up if you don't have like a small waist.” – Doree (36:25–37:02)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “There’s just always, like, some random esoteric knowledge that our listeners have. So we appreciate you. We appreciate your expertise in the face of our non-expertise.” — Doree (02:17)
• “I can see how it would be very exhausting to be your partner and have to do it every night.” — Alex (Elise’s friend), relayed by Elise (06:19)
• “My social battery is low these days and I just feel like I’m just showing up for the people that I’m close with… sometimes means I don’t go out very much.” — Doree (07:47)
• “Give yourselves a lot of grace. We know you are public servants and are really the backbone of this country in so many ways...” — Elise, responding to the CDC listener (12:29)
• “I am kind of the finder....but I’m not doing the minding and grinding…” — Elise on partnership and entrepreneurship (21:23)
• “Love that. That’s amazing. You sound like a boundary queen.” — Doree, on a listener who sticks to 9–5 (25:43)
• “Quiet quit...Do your job, do it well, turn it off and...focus on those babies...Give yourself permission to not give 100% to work. Give yourself permission to give 80% and do just as well… You’ll find that people respect your boundaries...” — Listener voicemail (26:07–27:44)
• “If you are tall, these are not for you. But if you are 5'2" to 5'6", these are probably great for you.” — Doree, about the stretchy jeans (36:25)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:21–02:29: Community Q&A, expert listeners
• 02:29–09:49: Social schedules, burnout, self-care & coping
• 10:27–14:44: Federal worker's voicemail on shutdown & gratitude; hosts’ response
• 19:05–24:35: Listener question on entrepreneurship; Doree & Elise on career pivots
• 25:06–29:23: Burnout & redefining work-life balance, especially for working parents
• 33:08–37:02: Organizational hacks for kids, jeans recommendation, and wrap-up

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Episode Tone

Warm, humorous, open-hearted, and honest—a mix of practical self-care, tough truths, compassionate advice, and good old best friend energy.

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For More

• Voicemail/Text: 781-591-0390
• Email: forever35podcastmail.com
• Instagram: @forever35podcast
• Newsletter: forever35podcast.com/newsletter

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This summary highlights the substance and spirit of the episode—an ode to adaptability, support, and gentle self-care as we zigzag through modern life.

Transcript

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[Elise Hu]

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[Dory Shafrier]

Hello, and welcome to Forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Dory Shafrier.

[Elise Hu]

And I'm Elise Hu. And we're just two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.

[Dory Shafrier]

And this is a mini episode where we hear from you, we share your comments and your thoughts, and we answer your questions to the best of our ability. But please remember, we are not experts. We are podcast hosts. And we always encourage you to seek support first and foremost from a medical and or mental health professional as needed.

[Elise Hu]

One thing that is cool is among our listeners, there are a lot of medical and mental health professionals. So sometimes we get questions from y', all, and then medical and mental health professionals will weigh in with the answer. So that's what makes the Forever 35 community and these mini apps so great. And it's always surprising, like, what people weigh in on, you know, like we had last week about the organization expert.

[Dory Shafrier]

Yeah, well, and like, I remember one time there was a question about how to clean a tutu, and we had like a tutu cleaning expert.

[Elise Hu]

You spray it with vodka.

[Dory Shafrier]

There was just. There's just always like, some random esoteric knowledge that our listeners have. So we appreciate you. We appreciate your expertise in the face of our non expertise.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, I feel like my brain is so fried lately, too, because I've been hosting a lot of podcasts at the same time, but also just kind of going hard with the evening activities. And I hit my wall today, Dorie. I hit my wall.

[Dory Shafrier]

Oh, wow, that's impressive. Because your wall is quite high. Your bar for your wall, you know what I mean? Mine is so low that it's like on the ground. Like, I'm like a little tired. I'm gonna stay home.

[Elise Hu]

Tonight we had this magical New York style night. I always call these New York style nights because in New York it's so dense and the places are so close that it almost feels like it's more likely that you would run into people that you know and then go on to the next place with people that you know. And it's less likely to happen in Los Angeles because it's just so spread out. And then. And then those of us that are in certain neighborhoods are pretty married and connected to our neighborhoods and try not to leave them too much.

[Dory Shafrier]

There's not as much spontaneity here.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, yeah. But every once in a while there's one of those kinds of magical New York nights here in la. And we had one on Tuesday, the night of our Forever35 guest. Recent guest, the author Jade Chang's book launch. Her book came out. It would be last Tuesday now. And I couldn't make it to the actual event, which was at a Barnes and Noble, because I had tickets to see Lucinda Williams at the Troubadour, this iconic music venue where everything sounds good inside the Troubadour. So I had tickets to go see her. It was a two night performance. You know, she had two shows and there was one on Monday, one on Tuesday, and my friend Alex had tickets for both nights. And so he took me on Tuesday and as I was dipping out of the Lucinda Williams show to get to Jade's book launch after party at around 10:30 or 11, as I was like winding around the crowd at the Troubadour before Lucinda Williams encore and getting out the front door, I get a text from a friend who I hadn't seen in two or three years and he goes, are you at the Lucinda Williams show? I think I just saw you across the venue.

[Dory Shafrier]

Oh my God.

[Elise Hu]

Lo and behold, yeah, it was my friend Peter and his wife Katie. They have a five month old, so they haven't even really been out of the house in five months. And they just happened to be at that show. And I said, yeah, it was me. And in fact, I'm going to an after party. And he was like, man, LA loves after parties. And I go, but not for this show. I'm going to an after party for a book launch. And he said, where is it? I'm like, it's nine minutes away. So I pulled my car around and I picked up my friend Alex, who was, like, staying for the last song. And then we peel out and go to the after party. And he's like, what is this going to be like? And I was like, well, by 11 o', clock, I'm sure it's going to be eight or nine people. We walk in, there's 65 to 70 people at this venue, at this bar.

[Listener Voicemail - Burnout Advice]

Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

And there's. It's totally still lit. Elsa Chang was in the front. Front lot. So we ran into my good friend Elsa, who we didn't know the other was gonna be there. And so we ran into two random friends in one night in Los Angeles, of all places. And then I said, peter, come on down. And then Peter and his wife, who don't know Jade, they were like, okay. And they actually came from the show to the after party.

[Listener Voicemail - Gratitude]

Oh, my.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. And so we all got to hang out. And Peter and Katie are big NPR fans, so they were really excited to get to hang out with Elsa Chang, who hosts All Things Considered. And then Alex is always game. But I gotta say, when we got into the car, I don't hang out with Alex every night. It's just every once in a while, maybe once a quarter. And we got in a car and he's like, we always have these fun nights out together when we go out. But I can see how it would be very exhausting to be your partner and have to do it every night.

[Dory Shafrier]

He said that to you?

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. And I was like, yeah, that's why you're out and Rob isn't.

[Dory Shafrier]

Yeah.

[Elise Hu]

Cause Rob's like, You know, Rob's a very extroverted guy. A real Energizer Bunny himself. But it's been a lot of social things lately. And today, while I was staring at my computer typing up yet another grant application, I just, like, my brain went foggy. I need to just take a nap. I usually don't sleep during the day. I just. Yeah, I think I work in intervals, and this interval is coming to a rest period.

[Dory Shafrier]

Okay. You, like, go hard for a while, and then you really need to, like, you kind of hibernate and then you go hard again.

[Elise Hu]

Exactly.

[Listener Voicemail - Burnout Advice]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrier]

That's how I work.

[Elise Hu]

I work in intervals. I've been saying this for, like, 20 years.

[Dory Shafrier]

Oh, my God.

[Elise Hu]

I'm coming to the end of one of my intervals. Yeah.

[Dory Shafrier]

I think that I. Like, when I lived in New York and I didn't have a kid and I worked in media, I went out almost every night. Like, it was unusual for me to not go out. And I also drank a lot and like, that was a big culture shift for me, moving to LA and not drinking as much and not going out as much and also just like being in a different phase of life. And now I'm in a very different phase of life and I've sort of like lost the will.

[Elise Hu]

Like the gas. Yeah, yeah.

[Dory Shafrier]

Like it's. If it's not for someone that I'm like, actually close with. Like, I made a real effort to like go to your birthday dinner because I was like. Yeah. And I want to show you.

[Elise Hu]

That was such a nice night.

[Dory Shafrier]

It was so nice. Yeah, it was lovely. But like, yeah, if you had been like a second degree friend, I don't think I would have driven across town to go to a birthday. You know what I mean? Like, I'm just like, I. I don't know, I. My social battery is low these days and I just feel like I'm just showing up for the people that I'm close with, which, like, sometimes means I don't go out very much. Oh, and tennis, I. I leave the house for tennis.

[Elise Hu]

I think that is self care. I think that's taking care of yourself. Cause I mean, I. I am self aware enough to know when I'm at the end of one of my intervals too. And so now I'm just gonna, like, we're gonna do a fundraiser tomorrow night with you, and then I'm just gonna kind of chill for a bit.

[Dory Shafrier]

One thing that I will say about the thing tomorrow night, because I'm so glad you're coming. It's Ballots over Broadway, which is like this fundraiser I've been involved with for the past few years. And it's so much fun, but it also doesn't require that much of you because it's just watching, like, it's not actually a lot of socializing. So, you know, you're kind of just sitting there, like taking it all in. You're not really having to like, have that many conversations, which is another reason why I like it. I mean, I really, I used to have. I used to have a party every year called Latke Fest. It was like a Hanukkah party. And I mean, some of them were like iconic parties. Like, they were so much fun. But I realized one of the things that I liked about them is because. Is that I spent like at least half the party in the kitchen making latkes.

[Elise Hu]

You were busy, you were otherwise occupied.

[Dory Shafrier]

Exactly, exactly. And people could come and chat with me if they wanted to, but I did not have to be out in the, you know, living room or wherever. It was doing too much engaging. And this did not dawn on me until much later. I was like, oh, that's. Yeah, that was the.

[Elise Hu]

That was the stuff. That was the magic for you.

[Dory Shafrier]

That was the stuff. Yeah, exactly. So, anyway, I'm really glad you're coming tomorrow night, and it's gonna be really fun. It's a great night for a great cause, so. Well, Elise, before we take a. I do just want to play one voicemail that we got because it's very timely. You know, I hope that by the time this airs, this will be resolved, but I'm not confident, so. Oh, and I also just want to note, this was emailed to us as a voice memo, which is my preferred method of receiving voicemails. So thank you, listener. Here we go.

[Listener Voicemail - Government Shutdown]

Hi, Dori and Elise. This is Erica calling from Atlanta. It is day one of the government shutdown, and as a furloughed CDC employee, I have so many feelings today. But one that comes to mind that I've been meaning to call in about for a while is my gratitude for the Forever nonprofit and public sector group on signal that got started soon after the 2024 election or maybe the inauguration, I can't remember which. I have a ton of friends who work in public health here in Atlanta, so I certainly have a network in which to vent. But there's something so helpful about this group of women all over the country in a variety of fields who are all as fearful and mad and sad as I am about the future of our careers and our nation. And it's just been a really beautiful source of community and support.

[Elise Hu]

And.

[Listener Voicemail - Government Shutdown]

And just a reminder to my fellow Forever 35 listeners to check in on the government employees in your life. We are not okay right now. CDCers in particular are really tired and traumatized and demoralized, especially with the compounding effects of the pandemic. And I'm hearing those feelings from friends who are federal employees all over the government. We, you know, took an oath to uphold the Constitution, and it's becoming harder and harder to live out my values and uphold that oath with what I'm being asked to withstand and do. So here's hoping this shutdown doesn't last long and the ramifications aren't too ugly. Thanks for everything you both do and the joy you bring to my life every week.

[Listener Voicemail - Gratitude]

Love y'.

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All.

[Dory Shafrier]

Bye.

[Elise Hu]

What a powerful, powerful voice message. Yeah. Federal workers out there know that you are on our hearts and minds and give yourselves a lot of grace. We know you are public servants and are really the backbone of this country in so many ways and across so many sectors. And it's awful what has been happening. And like you all, you know, we've been wondering kind of when will the pendulum swing back and will it swing back in our lifetimes towards an ethic of dignity for all, you know, and care for the elderly and the very young and you know, science backed public health standards and trying to cure cancer and all the things that we stood for once. So we're thinking about you. I'm so glad that you have found each other. I think that's a really important reminder that you're not alone. Like, it feels bleak but you aren't the only one who is resisting and trying to do some good from where you are with what you have. So that's really important. Just it feels so often like we're by ourselves and every time I kind of speak up about something that I'm struggling with, all these voices also kind of echo it and they're like, oh yeah, I was there too. Or I was feeling that uncertainty too. And so it is really important that you stay in communication with your communities about what's going on and what you're fearing and what you're feeling. Thank you for reaching out to us and thank you for always listening to us too.

[Dory Shafrier]

I think it is like, like you said, it's such a good reminder about the power of community and having people in your orbit who understand what you're going through. Well, I hope, like I said, I hope this is resolved by the time this airs. But not optimistic, unfortunately. And we are thinking of you. Before we do take a break, I just want to remind everyone that you can call or text us at 781-591-0390. You can email us at forever35podcastmail.com you can also email us a voice memo like this listener. Did you hear how crisp and clear it was?

[Elise Hu]

Sounded so good.

[Dory Shafrier]

It sounded so good. You can Visit our website forever35podcast.com. We have links there to everything we mentioned on the show. We are on Instagram @Fever35podcast. Our newsletter is @forever35podcast.com newsletter and our favorite products are @shopmy US, Forever35. And I also just want to put in a quick plug for our Patreon. You know, not only do we have a ton of bonus content on there, we have our casual chats, we have our monthly pop culture recommendations episode which came out a few days ago. We have ad free episodes at the $10 level above. But also it pledges your support to the show. Like not to sound all like NPR about this, but like it, it does help keep the show going. So you know, if you want more forever 35 and you want to see the show keep going, please support us on Patreon and you can do [e-mail] forever35 and after the break we have some responses to the listener who I think she called in about feeling burnout from her advertising job. Or maybe she texted, I don't remember. But yeah, we got some good responses about this. So okay, great. Right back have you ever been shopping online? Arguably the easiest form of shopping, and yet the barrier between you buying the thing and not buying the thing was the fact that your card was in another room and you couldn't be bothered to go get it. I am definitely guilty of that. But you might have seen a purple button at checkout with the word shop sticking out amongst all the other payment options. That's Shopify's shop pay. And there's a reason so many businesses sell with it. Shopify doesn't just make the buying experience better for customers, they're also the experts in helping small businesses grow big and complete sales. Shopify is the commerce platform behind 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started. Tackle all the important tasks in one place, from inventory to payments to analytics and more. With 99.99% uptime and the best converting checkout on the planet, you'll never miss a sale again. Only with Shopify. Stop seeing carts going abandoned and turn those sales into sales. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.comfore35 go to shopify.comfore35 shopify.comfore35 you know, it's starting to get cooler even here in Los Angeles. And cooler days really do call for layers that last. And Quince has become my go to for quality essentials that just feel cozy, look refined, and won't blow your budget. My favorite Go to fall sweater from Quince is the organic cotton cropped cable crew sweater. It's just like the perfect versatile clothing item. I love it. I wear it all the time and it's not too warm, but it's like just the right weight. It's. It's great. They also have amazing $50 Mongolian cashmere premium denim that fits like a dream and luxe outerwear you'll wear year after year. These are really the pieces that'll turn into your fall uniform. I'm also eyeing their wool coats lately. I don't know if you've seen them, Elise, but they look really designer level. But they cost a fraction of price and the quality is honestly just as good, if not better. And that's because Quint partners directly with top tier ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen and they deliver luxury quality pieces at half the price of similar brands. It's the kind of wardrobe upgrade that feels smart, stylish and effortless. To find your fall staples at Quint, go to quints.com Forever35 for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. And they're now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com Forever35 to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com Forever35 all right, we are back. First, we have a voicemail that is not related to the burnout stuff, but it is related to job stuff. So I wanted to just play it.

[Listener Voicemail - Government Shutdown]

Hey Dorian.

[Listener Voicemail - Gratitude]

Elise, this message is really just for Dory. Dory, I wanted to I thank you so much for being so open and vulnerable about the job search situation. And I think a lot of people are actually in your boat in the media and journalism industry, specifically audio. I know I work somewhere that just had a bunch of layoffs. Anyway, I was wondering if you could share whether you've thought about teaching as a route and offering classes or other ways of monetizing all of the deep knowledge that you already have of podcasting, of writing your substack experience. And I guess this is a question for Elise. Elise, could you talk a little bit about starting a production company and why you did that and how that works financially and also Dori, I was curious if you were thinking about doing something like that and creating an llc. And I guess I'm just interested in entrepreneurship and how that works in the media industry. Anyway, thank you again. Bye.

[Dory Shafrier]

Part of what I find challenging about like the entrepreneurship stuff is like the marketing of yourself. I find difficult. Like if, if someone was like here and you want to do a course, great, I will like do all the promotion for it and I'll do all the marketing for it and I'll get you customers and all that stuff, I would be like, amazing. I'll do the content. But it's the other stuff that I find really hard and like, doesn't come naturally to me. And just is hard. And I think that's what has often, like held me back from doing a lot of this stuff. That's just sort of like the hustle. The hustle of it. Yeah, exactly. But it's definitely something that has, like crossed my mind. But I think, I think I also don't know exactly what I would teach a course on. So that has also been, you know, I don't know. I also overthink everything, so that might. That might be holding me back. Elise, do you want to talk about having a production company?

[Elise Hu]

Yes. I started a production company at the beginning of 2020 with my friend Rachel and so crucially think I could be a solopreneur. I have this production company where we do B2B podcasts. We made podcasts for, we transfer for Microsoft, for GitHub, so like big clients. And then we've made pilot episodes for individuals who just wanted to like, see what it would like, be like to make their own podcast. And we've done so kind of small batch things and big corporate things. And the reason why it has worked for the last five years is because it's a partnership. Because, like in businesses you have to have the minder and the finder and the grinder. And I am kind of the finder. Like, I'll do sales for the production company and show up at the initial meetings and do the kickoffs, but I'm not doing the minding and the grinding of the business. Like the daily work of slinging the tape and listening to every episode cut and like liaising with the client on a weekly basis. All of that is done by either staff or my partner. And so it's been an incredible journey. I finally understand budgets, like business budgets or just budgets, period. Because I never really had to think it through that much. I just kind of like worked for institutions and they would hold back your taxes. And now I understand taxes and business structure and balancing a budget and all sorts of accounting things. The learning curve for me was really sharp. But I've learned so much. So there is so much value, I think, to having done it. I don't know that I'm going to keep doing it. So full disclosure. In a lot of ways, the question about entrepreneurship is, is the juice worth the squeeze? Which is something we always say in Texas, like that juice, the juice ain't worth the squeeze. And so when we first started, we brought an anchor client over from one of Rachel's previous employers. And this is what happens when a lot of law firms or whatever will hang out and hang out their own shingle. You know, they start their own firm. They have to bring clients over so that they have a stable of business. And so we had a big client kind of come with us that helped get us off the ground. And now I think both of us just very candidly, both of us are sort of like, what's the next chapter of our lives? So I don't know that we're going to stay together forever, but the experience has been really nourishing. And we haven't fired each other, so we've learned a lot in just relating to one another, too, and just what the partnership can look and feel like.

[Dory Shafrier]

I love that. Thank you so much for the question. And yeah, someone else texted Dory. A great way to break into private college admissions work, which is extremely lucrative, is to offer private counseling for essay writing, maybe offer help to friends slash neighbors slash youth serving organization, and go from there. Essay coaching is extremely common. It's funny because I did some college essay tutoring like, like after I graduated from college, so.

[Elise Hu]

Oh, wow, Full circle.

[Dory Shafrier]

Yeah, it's kind of like, am I just taking, like these huge steps backwards in my career?

[Elise Hu]

I don't think it's linear. I don't think our careers are linear. I think our careers kind of zigzag. And so everything old can be new again. But also, this is an area that is really lucrative. I mean, you remember the Operation Varsity Blues scandal?

[Dory Shafrier]

I sure did.

[Elise Hu]

Parents pay so much to help get their kids a leg up when they apply for college.

[Dory Shafrier]

So what I've been doing is thinking about semi illegal ways to help rich kids get into the college of their choice. Really coming up with some plans.

[Elise Hu]

There was already a federal sting. They've moved on. They don't care about this now.

[Dory Shafrier]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. My time is now. Okay, moving on to the responses about burnout. We got a text that said, I'm a designer and a mom who's been working in consulting, slash the digital ad space for the past decade plus. And I almost never work outside of nine to five hours. I'd estimate it's less than 1% of the time. I've worked at four different consulting firms during this time. I'm great at my job during work hours, so no one has ever complained to me about this. Just wanted to mention that such a thing exists. Love that.

[Elise Hu]

Yes.

[Dory Shafrier]

That's amazing. You sound like a boundary queen. So love this so much for you.

[Elise Hu]

I wonder. Amanda, is it you? It sounds like my running buddy Amanda.

[Dory Shafrier]

Oh, yeah. She didn't sign the Text, so it's possible. Then we got a voicemail about this as well.

[Listener Voicemail - Burnout Advice]

Hey Dori and Elise, this message is for the caller that called in about burnout at work and she has I think a 2 year old and a 4 year old child. And I'm trying to think how to say this succinctly. I think this isn't about burning out and needing to take a vacation or take a walk. I think this is a more existential issue that actually ties into children. And I mean this all in a positive way. And so I have a year old and a six year old. I'm coming out of the fog a little more than the color. But before kids, work was what defined me. The mission driven work I did, the places that I traveled to, it's what filled my cup and it's what I identified as and it's what defined me as a person. And then once I had kids, work became less important and I don't really care about it a lot. And that's not to say that I don't meet all my deadlines and I'm not doing a good job. But you were able to give before kids 100%, probably to most things, 100% to your job. You could probably give 100% to your mental and physical health, maybe 100% to your partner. But now that you have kids that are two and four, which are really hard ages, you got to bring those percentages down, right? Like unfortunately, like you're going to be able to give 80% to your partner and 70% to work. And I just found that I have a lot healthier relationships work. Like when it's time for me to sign off at 4pm, I sign off. Like, your boss is cool with you signing off. Your colleagues are cool with you signing off. You need to make it okay for you to sign off. And I know there's that phrase quiet quitting and I wish it had a better. It doesn't sound like what it is. What it means is just like putting your priorities in different places more or less and having more of a balance in life. But like quiet quit, you know, do your job, do it well, turn it off and pour yourself a cocktail and focus on those babies and snuggles and dinners and kind of take that hundred a lot. Give yourself permission to not give 100% to work. Give yourself permission to give 80% and do just as well and you'll find that I'm sure it sounds like you're a high achieving person. You'll find that people respect your boundaries, you'll find that people might not notice or not care, and you'll probably still meet all your deadlines. So I would just encourage a reframing of the narrative, a reframing of what's important. I define myself by a lot more fulfilling ways than just my job now. And it kind of makes me sad for women because I think this is why there are more male CEOs, because they don't need to do this as much. They can still give 100% to everything we take on the last percentage. But that's where I am right now. And I'm finding a lot of fulfillment in that. And I'm less burnout. I hope this helps. You guys are great. Thanks.

[Elise Hu]

Thanks for weighing in.

[Dory Shafrier]

Yeah, I love this perspective.

[Elise Hu]

That is. That is a, you know, very common perspective, I think post children. So I. I feel like if I think back to the caller and her question, her boss, I feel like the key part of her question was that her boss was great and generous. And so there is so much you can do with that strong relationship with the boss to try and negotiate better terms for yourself.

[Dory Shafrier]

Yes, Such a good point. All right, well, we are going to take another short break and when we come back, we have another voicemail and a request for a link for some jeans.

[Elise Hu]

Okay, jeans again.

[Dory Shafrier]

All right, jeans again. We'll be right back.

[Elise Hu]

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[Dory Shafrier]

When you have to either get your kids dinner ready or pack their lunch and you're just staring into the fridge and there's like two grapes.

[Elise Hu]

Yep. This happens a lot in my house.

[Dory Shafrier]

Yep. That's because parenthood doesn't come with a meal plan. And that's why I've stopped stressing over last minute meals and started using Little Spoon, which is today's episode sponsor. They deliver real food for babies, toddlers and big kids straight to your door. So mealtime actually feels easy. And we are just obsessed with everything. I mean, one of the big hits at our house is the strawberry Bonanza smoothie which has whole milk. It's so good. Whole milk, Greek yogurt, banana, pumpkin, vanilla bean. I mean it's, it's really good. And Henry also loves the Pizzalicious veggie loops which are made with chickpeas and spinach. And I just, I love that everything they make is just loaded with hidden veggies and I don't have to peel, chop or beg anyone to take a bite. Everyone wins. Truly, everything is made with real ingredients. No artificial flavors, sweeteners or dyes. It' the rare combo of convenient and healthy. And here's the exciting part. Little Spoon is now in Target.

[Elise Hu]

Ah, Yay.

[Dory Shafrier]

Yay. Little Spoon is the mealtime hack parents can't stop talking about. Try their no prep nutrient packed meals and snacks for babies, toddlers and big kids. Get 50% off your first online order at littlespoon.com forever with code forever at checkout. That's L, I, T T, L, E, S slash forever. And don't forget to use our Show's code for 50% off your first order. Okay, here is a voicemail about some of the organizational, executive functioning stuff that I was talking about like a week or two ago.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dory Shafrier]

Oh, also I should note this was also an emailed voice memo. Appreciate the clarity.

[Listener Voicemail - Organizational Tips]

Hi Elisa, Andari Dori. Thank you for sharing with us the idea from the OT who gave a talk on executive functions at Henry's school. The idea of putting a bag tag on a kid's backpack with everything they need for the day is so great. We've been using it to help my daughter with her dance activities in the evening. She is a competitive dancer just like Elise's daughter and dances between 10 and 15 hours a week and is dancing for hours every day and always needs to pack a Bag with lots of different things. Ballet slippers, ballet tights, toe spacers, pointe shoes, running shoes, everything. So together, we wrote on a tag her dance schedule and everything that she needs to bring for each class, organized by the day and the class. And it's been a big help for her. Now she's doing everything independently and isn't forgetting everything. So thank you so much.

[Listener Voicemail - Burnout Advice]

I.

[Elise Hu]

Don't you love it. Don't you love it when they don't. Don't forget things, because then you're not having to run back to school with the extra, you know, bag of whatever or the water bottle or the lunch. I don't like to do that. I give the kids one. Mom will run to school with something with an item you forgot per school year. So Ava's already used hers up. She didn't get. She didn't get any more.

[Dory Shafrier]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Elise Hu]

She forgot her volleyball bag on a day that she had volleyball practice. And so I was like, well, well, I'm gonna bring it, but next time. Sol.

[Dory Shafrier]

I got some clear luggage tags, and I have yet to actually put them on any bag, but I. You know, I do want to do this on my tennis bag because I feel like there's all this, like, random stuff, especially for matches that I often forget, and it would. It would be really helpful to have that. Have that handy.

[Listener Voicemail - Organizational Tips]

So.

[Dory Shafrier]

And of course, on Henry's. On Henry's back as well. Okay. And we got this text that said, I feel like Dory has mentioned stretchy barrel leg jeans from Amazon twice now, but they aren't linked in the show notes. Inquiring stretchy minds need the deets on these. Well, funnily enough, I am wearing those jeans right now.

[Elise Hu]

Are they so stretchy and comfy?

[Dory Shafrier]

Oh, they're so stretchy and comfy. I will link to them. I bought them for 39.90. Now it says the list price is 45.99, and right now they're on sale for 35.98.

[Elise Hu]

Oh, nice deal.

[Dory Shafrier]

Okay. I don't know if that will be the case when this airs, but they. They should be around $40. Let's. Let's say that. Now, one thing that I will say, slash caution, is that I am wearing the black ones. They're sort of like this faded nice fl. Faded black. And I also got a pair of blue ones. Now, they have multiple sh. Blue, and I cannot tell you which ones I got, but the blue ones are noticeably shorter than the black ones, and they're the same size. So, like Elise, I Feel like these would be too short for you.

[Elise Hu]

I'm very leg.

[Dory Shafrier]

Because you are, you're a tall ollie.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah.

[Dory Shafrier]

And they are like pretty much just the right length for me, maybe even a, like a smidge short. So I would say if you are tall, these are not for you. But if you are 5, let's say 52 to 5 6, these are probably great for you. I would also say they run a little small in the waist. They're sort of baggy and barely, but the waist is like a little small. So I would size up if you don't have like a small waist.

[Elise Hu]

Okay.

[Dory Shafrier]

That's my advice.

[Elise Hu]

And we will definitely have the link in the show notes.

[Dory Shafrier]

The link will be there. All right, Elise, great to see you and talk to you as always, listeners, thanks so much for your calls, texts, emails, et cetera. And we will talk to you soon.

[Elise Hu]

Okay, talk to you next time. Bye. Sometimes the best reminder that things will be all right is hearing a fresh perspective from experts who've seen it all and have the wisdom to prove it. Like I learned about extreme anchors in negotiation from the FBI negotiator Chris Voss's class on Masterclass and it really changed my life. I think about it all the time. And if you're not into that, you can also learn how to eat more ethically and sustainably With Michael Pollan, you can build habits that stick with atomic habits, author James Clear. And take care of your gut, brain, skin and more with science based tips from leading experts. The classes really make a difference. Three out of four surveyed members feel inspired every time they watch Masterclass class. I'm definitely in that majority. And with Masterclass, you can learn from the best to become your best. With plans starting at $10 a month billed annually, you get unlimited access to more than 200 classes taught by the world's best business leaders, writers, chefs and more. With Masterclass, you get thousands of bite sized lessons across 13 categories that can fit into even the busiest of schedules. Right now, our listeners get an additional 1515 off any annual [e-mail] forever35. That's 15 [e-mail] forever35 masterclass.com forever35.

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[Dory Shafrier]

So Dana.

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Wow.

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[Listener Voicemail - Organizational Tips]

Nice.

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