Mini-Ep 475: Breaking Up With Your Therapist Is Hard to Do

Summary

Podcast Summary: Forever35 Mini-Ep 475: Breaking Up With Your Therapist Is Hard to Do

Hosts: Doree Shafrir & Elise Hu
Release Date: January 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

This mini-episode of Forever35 centers on the emotional challenges of everyday life in 2026—including the unique pain of breaking up with your therapist. Co-hosts Doree Shafrir and Elise Hu respond to thoughtful listener questions about therapy, tackle insecurities around parenting choices, and celebrate the joys of adult hobbies. The conversation is refreshingly honest, peppered with humor, practical advice, and a sense of shared vulnerability.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Navigating Overwhelm in a Heavy World

• Current Events Fatigue: Both hosts reflect on how "the busy season" and bleak news cycles (Golden Globes, political betting markets, global unrest) are wearing them down.
• Humor as Coping: They mention recent "South Park" episodes and the dark hilarity of pop culture as methods of escapism.
• Personal Survival Mode: Elise admits, "I can't be alone in feeling like this shit is hard. And we are here for you. We are one of the places where we're kind of trying to imagine what things look like on the other side." (04:23)
• Coping Recommendations:
  • Doree: Reads Audre Lorde’s essays (“The Master's Tools Will Never Dismantle the Master's House”) for perspective.
  • Elise: Recommends “The Correspondent” as an engaging escape read.

Main Topic: How to Break Up With Your Therapist

• Listener Question: A listener wants to end sessions with her therapist, citing unprofessional behavior (not paying attention, texting during sessions, heavy smell of marijuana, etc.), and feels guilty due to their regular encounters in the office building.
• Hosts’ Advice:
  • Professional and Direct:
    • Doree: "Just make it super short, professional and just say, like, ‘next week will be our last session.’ You don’t owe her an explanation." (11:07)
    • Elise: "Clarity is kindness. You don’t have to be specific unless she asks for specific feedback, but I doubt she will." (11:52)
  • Normalize Therapist Turnover:
    • Elise recalls advice from a friend in management about how common it is for the “other side” to receive such “ending” conversations, suggesting, "Don't trump it up in your head." (12:54)
  • Acknowledge Unprofessionalism:
    • Doree and Elise note that the therapist’s behavior is inappropriate, emphasizing that “You’re paying for this.” (13:56)
  • Empower Listeners:
    • Doree concludes, "This is just a natural part of the therapist-patient relationship." (13:14)
    • Elise adds, “It does seem to me like there’s something going on with her that, again, is not your responsibility. I don’t think this is about you. This is about her.” (13:37)

Notable Quote:

"Clarity is kindness. You don’t have to be specific unless she asks for specific feedback, but I doubt she will."
— Elise Hu, (11:52)

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Parenting Choices: The One Kid vs. Two Debate

• Caller 1—Pro One Child: Shares how choosing to have one child was the best decision for her family and rejects the social pressure to "give your child a sibling." Encourages others to trust their gut and ignore outside noise. (16:41–19:13)
• Caller 2—The Challenge of Two: Contradicts the view that two is easier, speaking candidly about the relentless fighting between her two kids. “If they play together for 30 seconds without screaming and arguing, that’s a win... back out of my vagina.” (19:42–21:27)
• Host Reflections: Both Doree and Elise openly admit ambivalence about family size and affirm that every family’s decision is valid. Elise tells a story where traveling with two kids was “so easy” compared to three.
  • Elise: “Once you trip over into three, two, like, you can't even get... There's a car problem and then there's the hotel room problem... But, oh, man, just having two kids was pretty sweet.” (21:45–22:51)
• Caller 3—Waiting Can Work Out: Offers a nuanced take, describing her family’s shift in perspective towards a second child as things got easier—and the value in taking time before deciding. (23:39–25:07)

Notable Quote:

“You don't owe your child another human on earth, you know.”
— Elise Hu, (19:35)

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Listener Feedback & Inspiration: Hobbies and Self-Growth

• Feedback on "Hobbies" Episode: Multiple listeners express that the recent crossover on adult hobbies was “fantastic” and helped them embrace imperfection and persistence. (27:09–27:35)
• New Hobby Courage:
  • A listener describes how Doree’s story of becoming more skilled at tennis inspired her to join a local table tennis league despite intimidation:

  “I was the only woman there, but overall, I'm really excited to keep going and I just want to thank you for the inspiration.” (27:42–28:55)

• Hosts Celebrate Her Victory:
  • Doree: “I just so love that this person did it.”
  • Elise: “Good for you. We're so excited for you... Table tennis is having a moment.” (28:55–29:48)

Notable Quote:

“Table tennis is having a moment ... I'm just really excited for you, listener, that you're having like a glow up in the world of table tennis. Good for you.”
— Elise Hu, (29:12–29:48)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Topic | |---------|------------------------------------------| | 02:01 | Welcome, podcast overview | | 04:23 | Coping with heavy news and daily stress | | 09:33 | Listener email: Breaking up with therapist | | 11:07 | Hosts' advice: How to end therapy | | 13:14 | Normalizing the process and boundaries | | 16:41 | Listener call: One-and-done parenting | | 19:42 | Listener call: Two kids is hard! | | 23:39 | Listener call: Taking your time on kid #2| | 27:09 | Listener feedback: Joy of adult hobbies | | 27:42 | Inspired listener tries table tennis |

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• “I’m disassociating.” — Doree, on handling the current state of the world. (06:47)
• “Clarity is kindness.” — Elise, about ending awkward relationships. (11:52)
• “You’re paying for this.” — Doree, affirming the listener’s right to quality care. (13:56)
• “Back out of my vagina.” — Listener, rebuffing outside opinions about family size. (21:05)
• “Table tennis is having a moment.” — Elise, celebrating listener victories. (29:12)

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Tone & Language

The episode is deeply empathetic and honest, blending humor with frank admissions of struggle—reflecting both hosts’ commitment to real talk about self-care, mental health, and the chaotic imperfection of adult life. The hosts offer validation, accessible advice, and celebrate small wins with their listeners.

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Conclusion

Whether you're struggling to break up with your therapist, debating how many kids to have, or scared to try a new hobby, this episode is a supportive companion. Elise and Doree provide not only practical advice and resonance on tough decisions, but also the gentle reminder that in taking care of ourselves, sometimes the bravest act is to simply do what’s right for us.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[A]

Hello and welcome to Forever 35, a podcast about the things we do to take care of ourselves. I'm Dory Shafrier.

[B]

And I'm Elise Hu and we're just two friends who like to talk a lot about serums.

[A]

And this is a mini episode where we hear from you, we share your comments and your thoughts, and we answer your questions to the best of our ability. But please remember we are not experts. We're podcast hosts and we always encourage you to seek support first and foremost from a medical and or mental health professional as needed.

[B]

And gosh, I'm really wondering how the therapists are doing these days because God, what a bleak start to 2026. I was watching the Golden Globes. Well, I watched the back half of the Golden Globes on Sunday night, and then I. And then it replayed. So I was able to watch the beginning in the monologue, and Nikki Glaser absolutely killed it. But it was so sad that they are doing this integration now with polymarket. Yeah, the betting. You know, the betting markets. And I was like, does everything have to be a market? Like, do we have to bet on everything? And I think that there was some headline last week where there is betting going on, on how long the White House press conferences, like, the White House, the presidential daily briefing lasts. And Carolyn Levitt, like, was in the middle of some sort of briefing and ended it just in time.

[A]

Ye.

[B]

To be the. And it was just like, be. And it maybe was because they knew about this betting market and just like, yeah.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Just made me so sad on top of just everything happening.

[A]

So there's a. There is a funny recent south park episode that, like, takes this on.

[B]

There is.

[A]

It's, like, so insane that.

[B]

But that's what makes south park so great. It's just.

[A]

It goes there. Um, But I thought it was quite funny. But, yeah, everything is every. You can bet on everything now. It's like. It's so cringey. I don't.

[B]

I don't want to, you know, And Mark Ruffalo. Mark Ruffalo is like, the only guy who got political, and I think so. His clips are going around today of him being on the red carpet. Just like, there's stormtroopers in our streets, Innocent people are getting killed.

[A]

And I think we're getting a little off top, to be honest.

[B]

I mean, people aren't gonna feel this. This show is about taking care of ourselves. And I. I certainly feel like I can't be alone in feeling like this shit is hard. And we are here for you. We are one of the places where we're kind of trying to imagine what things look like on the other side.

[A]

Yes. How are you doing otherwise?

[B]

I mean, that's the thing. It's like, yeah, everything's going along just fine, I suppose. Like, I still have to get the kids to school and go to their activities, and everything's functioning. And we got back from New York, but it's just like, ugh, it feels heavy. We were at this giant birthday party on Saturday night, and it was all the people. It was like, all the hosts of npr. So everybody had come in if it were, you know, like, during the state of the union where they leave one cabinet member behind and is not. Who's not there? And this is one of those situations where maybe Scott Simon didn't come in, but a bunch of hosts had come in town because it was Elsa's 50th birthday and they were nominated, and Morning Edition was nominated for a Golden Globe. And so all of the. Some executives were in town and all of the hosts of Morning Edition and everyone was like, yay, great. We're having this big reunion and everybody can celebrate each other. But then also, everything sucks and is so difficult right now in the world, and we're going back to war in so many places. And so it's this constant, like, what is it called when it's not. It's not. It's not that. Like, where you're constantly, like, vacillating between one thing and the other. So it was an awesome celebration. We're so excited for our friend. There's a lot of love and, like, joyousness and a lot of, like, millennial music. And so there was a lot of, like, apple bottom jeans, boots with the fur, and everybody's getting low, low, low, low. But then also, then we were like, oh, my God, my knees hurt.

[A]

So. Right.

[B]

But what about you? How are you doing? How are you balancing all this? I mean, last week I was blissfully not in front of my computer when Renee Goode was killed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But, like, how are you just kind of, like, metabolizing everything?

[A]

Oh, I'm disassociating.

[B]

Okay. Okay.

[A]

I mean, that's the reality.

[B]

There's a really good text that I've been reading every night. It's this little book that I think was just a collection of essays by Audre Lorde. And it's. It's been awesome. It's been so awesome to read. And I, like, Brene Brown talked about how she read it when she was in college or something and how it changed kind of the way that she understood lots of, like, the structures in society. And Let me find what it's called. It's something. Oh, it's called the Master's Tools Will not or Will Never Dismantle the Master's House. And I talk about this, like, when I go on book podcasts, too, and people are like, what are you reading? What do you read? What do you keep on your nightstand? And this little Audrey Lord mini book, it's just. It's really thin. Is something that I keep on my nightstand now. It's in my purse. And, like, when I'm sitting around Waiting around. I read about, I read it and so that's like my little, that's my little recommendation. The other recommendation for this dissociative period is the Correspondent. Like, well, heated rivalry, obviously. Heated rivalry. I mean, we've talked about that a lot. But um, the Correspondent, which I think who was our guest Jen Hatmaker recommended in her Q and A. And then my really good friend Meredith was like, I got through this in four hours. And then I then recommended it to my friend Liz, who has a similar personality. And Liz texted me the next morning and was like, I finished the Correspondent. It's great. And I was like, I just spoke to you 12 hours ago. And she said, yeah, wow.

[A]

Wow. Okay.

[B]

It's a good like escape read.

[A]

I was gonna say, like, as long as it's sort of like an escape read.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know. I. It's like there's just. There's like not anything great happening. Like I feel like my life is kind of falling apart, but then also the world is falling apart. But I am so like freaked out about what's going on in my own life that I can hardly even think about the rest of everything. It's just like too much. It's too much. It's too much for like people to process all the time.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I'm sorry. It is so much.

[A]

It's too much.

[B]

What's on our listeners minds? Are we getting any? Well, what are we hearing about?

[A]

We have one listener who is looking for tips on breaking up with your therapist.

[B]

We are not mental health experts.

[A]

We are not, but we have been to therapy.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

And I mean, I certainly have stopped seeing therapists, so I. I feel like I can offer my own experience here. But this listener writes, I really just want to ghost because I hate confrontation, but I know that isn't the mature thing to do. She smelled heavily of pot our last session. The past few sessions she has been on her computer the entire time. I can hear her sending texts. Her sound is on, so I can hear the imessage sound. She responds, huh? Or some generic response to everything I say. I feel like each session is being led by me. Slash, it's just me venting the whole time about superficial life stuff when I have much deeper trauma healing that needs to be done. But I don't think she's the person to guide me through that. I'm older by her by a solid decade and I feel like I end up mentoring her a ton. She's still in grad school. For her, her LCSW I feel bad because I think she enjoys the casual chitchat we have, but it's just not working for me and I feel bad ending it. I also specifically chose a therapy practice in my office building for convenience. Oh, no. So I see her a ton in the elevators and parking garage at my office, so I'm going to continue seeing her around.

[B]

Girl, you cannot ghost. You're not going to get to ghost because by din of being in the same office building, you won't be a ghost.

[A]

Yeah, you fully. You, you, you, you, you can't, you can't ghost, unfortunately. And I think, I think you just make, you just make it super short professional and just say, like, next week will be our last session. Like, I don't think you, like, I don't think you really owe her an explanation. Or if you don't really want to even do a next session, you can say, unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to continue with therapy anymore. Thanks so much for, you know, whatever.

[B]

Specific thing you think she's helped you with.

[A]

Yes, exactly. And then just like, that's it. You don't, I don't know that you, like, need to go into great and gory detail.

[B]

Yeah, great. I direct. Clarity is kindness. Clarity is kindness. Yes. You don't have to be specific, but unless she asks for specific feedback, I doubt she will. I mean, it sounds like totally. Also, if you're a therapist, and I remember this because one of my friends is the CEO of this big tech company and I was like hand wringing about asking for a raise one time and he's like, okay, practice asking for a raise. Like, let's rehearse. And so I do it. And he's like, just remember that this is the only time in the last, like three years you've gone in to ask for a raise. But for the person on the other side, for me, I have this conversation like 65, 75 times a year. Like, there are that many people who are coming to ask me for a raise all the time throughout the year. And so he's like, so the stakes are so different. Like, you are making this out to be so, so much of a bigger deal than it is for the other person who hears requests for raises all the time. And I think that's probably true for therapists. Like, therapists have churn, their patients come and go. I mean, obviously this one is trained in training, so she's going to have less years of experience in, in the aggregate, but she's not, this isn't going to Be. I'm almost certain this won't be the first time or one of the only times where somebody ends their sessions. So don't trump it up in your head, is what I'm saying. Like.

[A]

Yes, I think that's good advice. Right. It's like, this is just a natural part of the. The therapist patient relationship.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

So also, like, the way she's behaving is really weird.

[B]

It sounds unprofessional.

[A]

If she's texting during your session, like, no, not cool.

[B]

Yeah. Or stoned, you know?

[A]

Yeah. That's like, really. I mean, this is not your problem at all. But it does seem to me like there's something going on with her that, again, is not your responsibility. But I. I guess what I'm saying is, like, I don't think this is about you. This is about her.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And what's going on with her. But, like, you don't also, like, you're paying for this. Yep. Okay. Well, Elise, we're going to take a short break. We had a lot of listeners call us about the one versus two kid debate question. So we're going to get to a few of those after the break. Um, great. But before we do that, just a reminder that you can also leave us voicemails at 781-591-0390 and email us at forever35podcastmail.com Our website is forever35podcast.com. We have links there to everything we mentioned on the show. We are on Instagram @forever35 podcast. Our newsletter is now on [e-mail] Forever35. We also have so much bonus content on there, including. I feel like I need to go.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

We're now doing our casual chats on video, so you have the option of watching us or listening to us. As I learned, Patreon just extracts the audio from your video if you put it up. So you can still listen to us like you always did, but you can also watch us if that's your thing. So that's just another fun perk of being part of our Patreon. In addition to supporting us, of course.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

That's [e-mail] Forever35. And we have our favorite products at Shopmy US Forever35. So check those out as well. And we will be right back.

[B]

We'll be right back.

[E]

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[F]

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[A]

All right, we are back.

[G]

Hi, Elise and Dory. I just wanted to call in because of the listener who was feeling kind of bad about not having more than one child. I am one and done by choice. My husband and I thought really long and hard about it and ultimately decided that one child was right for us. And I'm just here to say, like, if you want another kid, obviously you should have one. But when you really embrace just having one, if it's the right choice for your family and you, it rocks. It's the greatest. I don't, I get. I'm in like some great mom text threads and I'm the only one with one child. And anytime their kids play together, they like text our group, like, oh, look, and it's rare. Okay, my kid. You do have to teach your kid. Even if you have more than one, you have to teach them how to play independently. It's like a muscle that they have to grow. And it's worth it because my kid plays independently frequently and it's great. And it's an important skill, I think, to learn how to be alone with yourself. So, yeah, just here to say I also, I really, there's like a cultural thing of like, you should give your child a sibling. I hate that. Not just because, you know, well, you only have one, but like, you shouldn't give a human another human. You don't know that they're going to be friends. You don't know they're ever going to play together and not just fight all the time. You don't know that as adults they're going to be there for each other. Like my husband's brother, they're not close at all. So I just wanted to call in and say again, if you want more, more kids, absolutely. I hope you can have them. If you are feeling like you should Want more kids when you don't. Just know that a lot of times only having one child can actually open up so many more opportunities for you and your family than maybe having a sibling for your kid would. And I would also really recommend if you're on Facebook and you're in like those on the fence groups of people who are trying to decide, get out of there and find your way to one and done. Truly happy and drama free and it's really great and it'll validate your decision a lot because you'll see people who are just loving life with their only children. Okay, that's all. Bye guys.

[B]

My daughter Ava echoes this sentiment. Absolutely be one and done. No, I love what she had to say and I think it's absolutely right that you. There is no guarantee that the, that the firstborn wants to have another person, like wants to have a sibling or whatever. And you don't owe, you don't owe your child another human on earth, you know.

[A]

So yeah, we got a couple other perspectives on this as well. Okay.

[C]

Hey, Dory and Elise. This message is for the caller that called in saying somebody had told her that having two kids is easier than one because they play with each other. And I immediately paused the pod. I didn't even listen to your guys answers yet because I feel so strongly about this every day I say to myself my like Roman Empire is like what if I only had one kid, my life would have been so much easier. I have a 6 year old about Henry's age and a son that just turned four. And 99.9% of my time is because they are fighting, they are arguing, they have a problem with each other. It is exhausting. And I, my six year old, six and a half years is so self sufficient. I think like if we only had her life would just be so simple in terms of like my quality of life. Like yes, like down the road they have each other, the social skills they're building because they're with each other. His all the positive things, blah blah, blah blah blah. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about my sanity every single day. Dear Lord, if they play together for 30 seconds without screaming and arguing, that's a win. So I think the person who gave that advice is just first of all, that's kind of a mean thing to say to someone like who cares how many kids people have like back out of my vagina. But also I just think it's wrong advice too. So I just want the listener to listen to their gut. You Know, do what is best for you and your family. And the decision you make is going to be the best decision for your child and for you and for your partner. Okay, Happy New Year. We got this. 2026.

[A]

I swear, not all of our listeners are just pro one child. We just got these two perspectives. You know what, though? I will say, like, I feel like one thing that I did like about this listener's voicemail is that she was like, you know what? My life, my life would be easier.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I have so much ambivalence about having more than one kid. Yeah, totally. I mean, it. It's true. Like, I. One time I only. I went on a ski trip. I took the girls to Jackson Hole for skiing one winter break. I want to say, when Ava was in, like, third grade and Luna was in kindergarten or preschool or something like that, and Issa didn't go because Issa stayed with Maddie, her dad, to go to Palm Springs. Like, we had just. She wanted to do a different vacation and so she didn't go to Jackson Hole. And I was traveling around. First of all, I was packing, like, winter gear and ski stuff and then traveling around the airport with just two kids. And I was like, oh, my God, I freaking rock. This is so easy. I cannot tell you how easy this is. I was like, shit, man. Like, two kids would have been rad. Yeah. Because once you trip over into the three, two, like, you can't even get. First of all, you probably need a minivan or a seven seater. So there's a car problem and then there's the hotel room problem. We can't get, like, all five of us in a hotel room. We get two hotel rooms, all sorts of stuff.

[A]

So.

[B]

But like, oh, man, just having two kids was pretty sweet. No offense to Issa. We love Issa and we're sorry she didn't want to go skiing. I'm constantly like, I love you all. I love you all very much. But, yeah, like, works out how it needs to work out for you, you know, and it's like, I feel like we can't deny that just a fewer, you know, being responsible for one fewer person has. Makes a difference for the person who's responsible for them.

[A]

Totally, totally. Totally, Totally. Yeah. I mean, you know, I come from a family of three, so it was, you know, was kind of chaotic, but, you know. Okay, one more voicemail on this topic with a slightly different perspective.

[D]

Hi, I'm calling in response to the woman who called in not knowing whether she should have a second child or not. And I felt like we had a lot of similarities. My husband and I did not have children until I was 37 and we had our son and I felt the same way. This was like, holy cow, the impact on sleep and just time for myself and relationships with my husband. I was blown away with what a lifestyle shift it was and had it in my head, you know, we would only have my son and one had done and that was it. And it wasn't until he was about two and a half that we realized, you know, this is amazing. Like, being a parent is so much fun. It gets easier, you know, every month. And at that time we've decided to try for a second. It took a long time. We had to do ivf, but we did have our second and we feel complete. So my advice is maybe to just take it as it comes. And I know a lot of families, you know, want their kids to be only a year or two apart. So they start trying at the point this, listener that. And if you're not ready, just wait. And maybe in time you'll find that some of the demands of a newborn or a one year old do ease up and just be able to have a second. All right, hope that helps, James.

[A]

Yep, yep, yep. Well, we are happy to keep receiving texts and voicemails and emails about this. So keep them coming. And we're gonna take another short break and we will be right back.

[B]

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[F]

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[A]

All right, we are back. We got some feedback on the hobbies episode that we did, the crossover with Anne Helen Peterson's culture study. First, we got a text that said hi. The Joy of Adult Hobbies episode was fantastic. And fantastic is in all caps. It was so good to hear those perspectives and to know that others deal with this too. Thank you for all the reminders. Great convo. Great episode.

[B]

Oh, I'm so glad. Thank you guys. That's awesome.

[A]

All right. And we have one more voicemail.

[C]

Hi, I'm a new listener and first time caller. I'm calling in response to the hobby episode that you did with Helen Peterson and I've become really inspired by Dori talking about her tennis hobby and hearing her talk about growing it from this casual thing during the pandemic to being able to play in the league. And I loved what you said about tennis being more fun the better you get. So this weekend I finally mustered the courage and went to the local table tennis open league for the first time. I've been taking lessons and working with a coach on and off for the last couple of years, but I've just felt intimidated to go and play against other players who are often better than me. Also, all of them are men. But because of the episode, I went this weekend and it was a ton of fun. I won some games, I lost others, but. And I was the only woman there. But overall, I'm really excited to keep going and I just want to thank you for the inspiration. Yeah, thank you. Bye.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Good for you. Yeah. We're so excited for you. We're thrilled to hear that this conversation was in some small way connected to you. Really going for it with table tennis. Table tennis is having a moment. Marty Supreme. I don't know. Have you seen Marty supreme yet?

[A]

I haven't seen it yet.

[B]

Oh my gosh, it's so chaotic. Yeah, it is so chaotic. It's a lot of fun. I don't know that Timothee Chalamet deserves to win all of the best actors over Leo DiCaprio, honestly, because one Battle After Another was a better film overall. And Leo DiCaprio's performance as a dad and that was incredible. But like that movie is hilarious, like a lot of fun. Probably not one of my favorites, but ping pong is having a moment as a result and I'm just really excited for you, listener, that you're having like a glow up in the world of table tennis. Good for you.

[A]

So fun. I just so love that this person did it. Yeah. If you, if you've also done something like this, let us know. I love these stories. Well, listeners, thank you so much. Elise, nice to talk to you. Great to see you.

[B]

We'll be back on Friday on the Casual Chat. Yeah, see you later.

[A]

Talk to you then.

[B]

Bye.

[E]

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[F]

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