Are Caleb Williams and the Bears actually good enough to win a Super Bowl?

Summary

Forward Progress - A Chicago Bears Podcast

Episode: Are Caleb Williams and the Bears actually good enough to win a Super Bowl?
Hosts: Dan Bernstein & Matt Abbatacola
Date: December 29, 2025

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Episode Overview

In the heated aftermath of a close and challenging Bears loss, Dan Bernstein and Matt Abbatacola dive deep into whether the current iteration of the Chicago Bears—with rookie QB Caleb Williams and new head coach Ben Johnson—pose a real Super Bowl threat. The hosts break down the high-drama final plays, address budding offensive philosophies, analyze the glaring defensive shortcomings, and debate whether this team’s strengths can overcome its weaknesses on the biggest stage. The podcast is filled with game analysis, coach and player quotes, statistics, and classic Chicago football banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Accelerated Expectations and Division Win

Timestamp: 00:23–01:25

• The Bears, under Ben Johnson’s leadership, have rapidly reset fan and organizational expectations, clinching the NFC North by Week 18.
• “The transition that we've gone through as Bears fans... going into week 18 as NFC north champions and how Ben Johnson and his attention to detail and his leadership and his schemes... have accelerated that timeline so quickly for us.” — Matt (00:44)
• Both hosts acknowledge the excitement of the division title but insist it’s not the endgame—Super Bowl is the new bar.

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2. Breakdown of the Last-Minute Hook & Ladder Play

Timestamp: 02:17–04:19, 08:29–18:02

• Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson both discuss the misaligned and rushed nature of the last play, a hook-and-ladder attempt that nearly won the game.
• Caleb Williams Quote:
  “We ended up getting lined up with not much time, and we were slightly lined up wrong... didn't have enough time to fix it... I’ve got to do a better job, you know, in those moments of yelling or whatever, making sure everybody hears me... But, you know, like I said, we had a shot.” (03:26, 05:57)
• Ben Johnson Quote:
  “It's on me. I didn't give [Caleb] the call fast enough, and so he's trying to piecemeal it together. I got to do a better job on that.” (04:52)
• Johnson’s emotional response in the postgame presser hints at frustration and belief that the play should have worked.
  “[Johnson] was a total red ass there... He's pissed.” — Matt (10:22)

Analysis of Execution

• Both hosts agree the play design was sound, but the pitch on the ladder came too soon, failing to adequately bait the defense.
• “They accelerated the pitch. Loveland did [it] too quickly... If he catches and turns with intent... you’ve already drawn the defender to you.” — Dan (15:19)
• Ultimately, Johnson called the play as a potential game-winner and was upset it didn’t finish the job.

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3. Coaching Details & San Francisco’s Response

Timestamp: 07:12

• 49ers coach Kyle Shanahan intentionally avoided calling a timeout when he noticed the Bears scrambled, preferring to let a disorganized play unfold.
  • “He saw what they were doing as well. Instead of calling a timeout… he was like, all right, let's just let it fly.” — Matt

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4. Chicago’s Defensive Struggles & Lack of Pass Rush

Timestamp: 01:25, 21:30–23:02, 37:05–47:30

• Defensive woes are highlighted—almost 900 yards allowed in the last two games, no consistent pass rush, and struggles containing mobile QBs.
• Ben Johnson on pass rush:
  “I mean, [Purdy’s] a dangerous player… and we certainly didn't affect him enough.” (22:02)
• Matt and Dan discuss several missed opportunities for sacks and the Bears’ problems maintaining pressure, comparing Brock Purdy’s TD dance play to painful previous moments as Bears fans.

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5. Can the Bears Win the Super Bowl (With This Defense)?

Timestamp: 37:05–47:36

• Dan: “I don't think you can win a Super bowl with that anemic a pass rush.” (37:20)
• Matt counters with stats: The Bears are 11-5, often winning despite defensive lapses, and are NFL leaders in takeaways (+22 turnover differential, best in football).
• “We're talking about this year only... When it comes to takeaways, the Bears are the best team in football.” — Matt (38:18)
• When holding opponents under 24 points, Bears are 9-0.
• Historical context: Only a few Super Bowl teams have won with below-average defenses (2011 Giants, 2006 Colts, 2009 Saints).
• Matt: “They can certainly win a Super Bowl this year, even with that weakened pass rush.” (42:58)

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6. Offensive Diversity & Philosophy

Timestamp: 29:14–35:19

• Notable, almost unprecedented equitable distribution of receptions among the Bears’ top four receivers (DJ Moore, Loveland, Odunze, Burden) — All within a handful of catches and yards.
• “I would venture to bet... there has never been a team with that kind of equitable distribution of catches and yards among four receivers.” — Dan (30:13)
• Demonstrates the offense’s “democratic” approach, taking what the defense gives.

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7. Personalities, Locker Room Notes, and Injuries

Timestamp: 35:19–36:29

• Jalen Johnson was benched briefly in favor of Tyreek Stevenson after halftime; potential concern brewing in the locker room, but may relate to Johnson’s return from injury.

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8. Looking Ahead: Playoff Positioning and Week 18

Timestamp: 25:24–29:12

• Bears must defeat Detroit for a real shot at the No. 2 seed; argument over whether to rest starters depending on other NFC games.
• Dan: “You are one Seattle loss away... from hosting the NFC Championship Game as the 2 seed.” (27:15)
• Both agree Ben Johnson will push for a full-effort win against Detroit, citing both competitive pride and playoff positioning.

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9. Statistical Deep Dives

Timestamp: 40:47–47:36

• Bears are elite in takeaways and efficient in scoring; not so in total points allowed.
• Compared favorably to playoff teams in rushing yards and turnover differential; not so much in sack/pressure metrics.

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10. NFL Quick Hits, Anecdotes, & Classic Banter

Timestamps throughout, e.g., 52:45–61:00

• Discussion of Philip Rivers’ late-career comeback with the Colts and what it says about the NFL QB landscape.
• Mike Tomlin and Miles Garrett drama over sack records.
• Playful debate over childhood cars and parental seating arrangements during long digressions (17:00–19:48).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Caleb Williams on the final play:
  “We gotta do a better job overall. Just execution... we’ll go back, we’ll figure it out... be truth tellers to ourselves.” (02:29)

• Ben Johnson on his own accountability:
  “It's on me. I didn't give him the call fast enough, and so he's trying to piecemeal it together. I gotta do a better job on that.” (04:52)

• On the risky hook-and-ladder call:
  “That was a game-winning play that I called... he’s probably been waiting all season for the perfect moment to pull that off.” — Matt (13:09–13:22)

• On defending CAN the Bears win as-is:
  “They can certainly win a Super Bowl this year, even with that weakened pass rush.” — Matt (42:58)

• On Bears’ “democratic” passing attack:
  “Show me another team ever that’s had a top four with that kind of equality of production... that’s amazing.” — Dan (31:24)

• Classic Chicago banter:
  “Players do. They could do their own private jets.” — Matt, on the Bears' flu-ridden travel woes (18:01)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |----------------------------------------------|-------------------| | Accelerated expectations, division win | 00:23–01:25 | | Final play analysis - Hook & Ladder | 02:17–04:19, 08:29–18:02| | Audio from Williams & Johnson, Presser Quotes| 02:29, 04:52 | | Shanahan’s Timeout Non-Call | 07:12–07:54 | | Ben Johnson's "red-ass" presser | 10:22–10:28 | | Offensive distribution stats | 29:14–31:24 | | Defensive analysis, pass rush debate | 21:30–23:02, 37:05–47:36| | Jalen Johnson Tyreek Stevenson subbing | 35:19–36:29 | | Week 18 preview & playoff ramifications | 25:24–29:12 | | NFL around the league: Colts, Steelers, etc. | 52:45–61:00 |

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Conclusion

This episode delivered a comprehensive, passionate autopsy of the Bears’ narrow loss, dove into the philosophies and realities defining their 2025 campaign, and ultimately provided hope—tempered with realism—that Chicago may be closer to a Super Bowl shot than at any point in recent memory. The hosts’ blend of stat-heavy breakdown, locker room insight, and classic Windy City wit made for a compelling, must-listen experience for any Bears (or football) fan.

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If you missed the episode, this summary brings you up to speed on the X’s, O’s, and emotions driving the Chicago Bears’ 2025 playoff push.

Transcript

[A]

I mean, if you're a Bears fan.

[B]

You'Re thinking Forward progress. Come on. 10, 2, 19, 2, 19.

[A]

Forward progress. A Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abaticola on 312Sports.

[B]

Well, that was fun last night. The outcome not so great, but much to discuss about your Chicago Bears, where they, how they are currently constructed, what the playoff possibilities may be as we head into what is going to be the final week of the regular season. Bernstein, Abaticola with you here on 312 Sports.

[A]

I liked our conversation on DBU about the Bears accelerated expectations. That that the transition that we've gone through as Bears fans from week one to going into week 18 as NFC north champions and how Ben Johnson and his attention to detail and his leadership and his schemes and his game plans and his play calling have accelerated that timeline so quickly for us.

[B]

And the motivation and the soft stuff, the buy in, the belief that we never really took the time to stop and celebrate. This all happened this weekend. Like, oh my God, they won the division. They won the division.

[A]

Such fun stuff.

[B]

So trying to figure out how we can be happy and excited that they won the division and also understand that that's not good enough. And that raises the bar. And especially when you see their struggles on defense. Last couple games have given up almost 900 yards.

[A]

Yeah, they have.

[B]

So now what?

[A]

So lots to get into today on forward progress. We have some audio from Ben Johnson and Caleb Williams after the game last night. So we'll get into that. We have some other topics to discuss with the Bears too, going into week 18 with Detroit. And then I want to circle back to something we have talked about, and we talked about it at length last night about can the Bears win a Super bowl with this defense, specifically with the lack of pass rush.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I've had time to think about it. I want to talk more about that as well. Too.

[B]

Perfect.

[A]

But let's start with some sound. And this first one comes from Caleb Williams and it's on the final play of the game. So obviously the hook and ladder play gets you to like the 3, 4 yard line run the final play of the game. Here's Caleb Williams.

[C]

It's frustrating. Obviously you don't want to lose a game ever. And then, and then also just being that position and you know, having a shot at the end is all you can ask for in those moments. But we got to do a better job overall. Just execution. We made too many mistakes as a team, whether it's penalties, whether it's alignments, whether it's Assignments, you know, things like that. You know, we'll go back, we'll figure it out. You know, we'll be truth tellers to ourselves because we got a great shot at the, at the end of the season to put ourselves in, you know, in a good spot, but also, you know, to get back on a roll and get back on a run here through the playoffs. And that's, you know, that's what you're focused on. You, you know, you want to go back and figure out why, you know, why what happened today is what happened. And like I said, be truth tellers to us as a team and that'll better us for what's up to come.

[A]

Your eyes.

[D]

Can you take us through the final play?

[B]

Obviously, pressure came early, but what you saw.

[C]

Yeah, we ended up getting lined up with not much time, and we were slightly lined up wrong, and so didn't have enough time to be able to fix it, having a motion and things like that. And so, you know, we just had to try and make something out of nothing in that situation. And then, you know, like I said, we had a shot, you know, with all of that going on, time running down, you know, us missing line and things like that, we had a shot and, you know, just got to give my guys a shot in that situation. I think I haven't obviously gone back and watched yet, but I think I'd end up dirting the ball, didn't get my legs into it, and you know, just put the ball in end zone in that moment. And if it's a pick or incomplete at that point, then, you know, but can't dirt the ball.

[B]

When he said didn't have a motion, it sounded like he said emotion. He literally said a motion or an emotion. And you watch that play again, they didn't. They were kind of flying by the seat of their pants there.

[A]

Now he actually said it again, too, that they actually they. That they had the motion. So here, let's. Let's go on real quick again, because.

[B]

It certainly looked like something was weird on that last play.

[A]

Yeah. So let's, let's continue on with this. About, about the final play. And this is Ben Johnson when he was asked about the final play.

[D]

Yeah, we didn't quite get aligned in the, in the formation. We wanted to. It's. It's on me. I didn't give him the call fast enough, and so he's trying to piecemeal it together. I got to do a better job on that.

[A]

Okay, so Ben Johnson didn't get the call in fast Enough. Now let's go back to Caleb Williams. And this is a. Another question, another answer from Caleb about the final play.

[C]

We end up getting the motion. We just. We got the play.

[A]

So we end up.

[B]

We end up getting the motion.

[A]

Ended up. We ended up getting the motion.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

We ended up getting the motion. We just. We got the play. I'm a little later than we usually do. And then.

[A]

So we got to play a little later than we usually. So first answer didn't throw his coach under the bus. You know, Ben speaks first, then Caleb, and when Caleb's first answer. That was the second question of his press conference. Okay. And he didn't say anything about not getting the call in. Now they circle back about eight minutes into this press conference. He was about nine or 10 minutes long. He was asked again about the final play, and that's when he said, well, yeah, we didn't get the play in. We didn't get the play in.

[C]

We ended up getting the motion. We just. We got the play. I'm a little later than we usually do. And then from there, we end up, I guess the guys, you know, didn't hear me in the huddle, and so, you know, I got to do a better job, you know, in those moments of yelling or whatever the case may be, making sure everybody hears me. And then. And then from there, you know, the guys got to get lined up. We got to get lined up, and if the guys are wrong, I got to be able to fix them. And the clock was. Was issue in that moment. So I couldn't. Couldn't necessarily get the guys, you know, situated, but sent the motion. You know, like I said, we had a shot at the end and, you know, didn't put the ball in end zone for the guys.

[B]

Too bad.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And what happened, as we discussed last night, the hook and ladder play was to win the game.

[A]

Okay, let's get into that with audio as well, too. But let's save that. Let's save that conversation for a second. Hang on. Let's save that conversation because, yeah, there's audio to it. And we will get in that final thing on this. On this final play. So this is Ben Johnson. We heard his cut about. It's on me. And it's followed up immediately with Kyle Shanahan, because Kyle Shanahan was asked, why didn't you take a timeout? Because the 49ers weren't fully set or ready to go as well. But Kyle Shanahan gives his answer here, too.

[D]

We didn't quite get aligned in The. In the formation, we wanted to. It's. It's on me. I didn't give him the call fast enough, and so he's trying to piecemeal it together. I got to do a better job on that.

[A]

I thought about it. We wanted to see the look, and.

[C]

Then they just went fast and let it ride.

[A]

So he thought about calling a timeout. They went fast, and not just. The Bears went quickly. He saw.

[B]

He knew they were out of place.

[A]

Yes. He saw what they were doing as well, too.

[B]

It's just good coaching.

[A]

Yes. So instead of calling a timeout and allowing his opponents to get the opportunity to regroup, he was like, all right, let's just let it fly.

[B]

He said, I don't know what you're.

[A]

Running, but I go ahead.

[B]

Yeah, whatever that's supposed to be. We can live with it.

[A]

Let's see what happens.

[B]

That's good coaching is what it is. That.

[A]

It was very interesting.

[B]

One thing, though. Did Ben Johnson say piece mail?

[A]

He did say piecemeal. Here, let me.

[B]

It's piecemeal.

[A]

Back it up here.

[D]

It's on me. I didn't give him the call fast enough, and so he's trying to piecemeal it together.

[A]

Piecemeal it. Whatever.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because he said, I've. You know, from a guy who says the wrong things pretty much every day.

[B]

The phrase is piecemeal.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That's okay.

[B]

I like the idea of piece mailing, though.

[A]

That's different.

[B]

If it's M A I L or M A L E. I don't know.

[A]

Just.

[B]

Just caught my ear.

[A]

All right, let's talk about the hook and ladder here. Let me. Let me get my sound here. So this is. Let's go with Ben Johnson. First, I thought.

[B]

I thought they had. Let me just say I thought they had it.

[A]

I did, too.

[B]

When I first saw it, I thought, oh, boy. The moment they made the flip, I didn't think that they'd be able to close quickly enough. I thought he'd have a guy to beat and be able to win that matchup. And it just. It wasn't timed right.

[A]

So Swift comes out of the backfield, Loveland doesn't. In the cross catch the ball, pitches it. Let's. Let's hear the comments and we can discuss. Because we have a conversation to have about this with that play in that situation, obviously, you know, there's a possibility he gets. Okay, let me set this up first.

[B]

I forgot to do this. Sounds like Kevin fishbane.

[A]

It's fishbane. So it was weird. So Fishbane and Courtney Cronin were the only two asked that asked Ben Johnson questions. And his press conference was like, five minutes long, which normally it's longer than that. So I don't know if. If there was. If no other reporters were there to talk to Ben, but they asked, you know, you. If you're lucky, get two. Kevin had, like four or five. Courtney had several also.

[B]

It's fine as far as I'm concerned.

[A]

Oh, yeah, no, no, I don't care. I just. I just thought it was interesting. So. All right, so this is. This is Kevin Fishbane. We don't get a whole lot of information from Ben on this, but I want to see if you pick up, if you. If you heard the same things. I did okay with that play. In that situation, obviously, you know, there's a possibility he gets tackled in bounds. But, like, are you. When you call that, you're okay with the. Yeah, yeah.

[D]

You're not. There's plenty of time. We got plenty of. Good place.

[A]

Okay. So you heard what I heard? Yes. So you're okay with that call? Yeah, I'm okay with. And he's laughing. He's giggling, but it's not a. Like, hey, this is entertaining. I'm.

[B]

I'm.

[A]

You know, this is humorous to me.

[B]

No, we just lost a game.

[A]

He's pissed.

[B]

Yeah, that's a little red ass there.

[A]

He was a total red. Not with a smile on his face, too.

[B]

That's sort of like what happened with. With Adidas, right?

[A]

Oh, yeah. She misheard what she asked.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But still, you got a little red ass with it.

[B]

Yeah. You see it from him.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[D]

You're not.

[A]

Because he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm okay with it. You're not.

[B]

I'm real okay with it.

[A]

Yeah. So you heard it? Yeah, it was great. It was really good. Yeah, yeah.

[D]

You're not. There's plenty of time. We got plenty of good plays.

[B]

I know what I'm doing here, kid.

[A]

Yeah, because, dude, you've been to enough of these things. In all sports, when a coach goes back like that, he's pissed. He's pissed off.

[B]

Oh, I've been on the receiving end of that before.

[A]

Oh, I was once with Quaddy.

[B]

I've been on the receiving with a challenge. You. Why didn't you blitz? Who am I supposed to blitz? Well, a linebacker. What else? A safety. Well, I didn't want to. Yes, clearly, because you didn't. Yeah, I've been there.

[A]

But, yeah, our guy. Our guy, Kevin. Yeah. Yeah.

[D]

You're not there's plenty of time. We got plenty of good place.

[B]

All right, so they hired me for a reason. Yeah, I've been doing this for a while.

[A]

You're not. Yeah, it was good. You're not.

[B]

You fishbane.

[A]

Right. You're not okay with it.

[B]

Lieutenant Weinberg.

[A]

Our guy, I gotta text him about that. That's funny. All right. And this is Caleb on the hook and ladder. He's got two comments here, but this is the first one.

[C]

Well, I mean, it was a situation that we've worked the play before. I end up thrown in out of bounds, and so if I end up completing it, we would have done, you know, we would have done the same thing. And so if I completed inbounds, we would have done the same thing. And so we were going for it. And that's. That's. That's who we are. That's, you know, that's how coach likes to call it. That's how I like to play. We go for it. We go for the win. And whatever kind of play it is, whatever the case may be, you know, that's. That's how we play. We're going to keep playing that way.

[A]

All right, one more from Caleb on the hook and ladder.

[C]

The corner actually fell off, and we thought he was actually going to attach a little bit more than he did. And so we thought Swift was going to be able to get around the edge. And the corner ended up sloughing off and he, you know, they made a great play. DeAndre got as much as he could, got down, and, you know, we end up clocking and had the last play.

[A]

All right, so let's talk about it and let's. Let's overthink it like we do and over talk it as well, too. So I'm here for that. Yes, 100%. Yeah. So he calls that play to win the game.

[B]

Of course he did.

[A]

That's why he's pissed when Kevin asked the question if you're okay with it, because God damn it, I'm okay with it. That was a game winning play that I called. He started it perfectly, and he's probably.

[B]

Been waiting all season for the perfect.

[A]

Moment to pull that off.

[B]

Yep. And they ended up playing it well. They stayed in their lanes. They didn't buy some of the eye candy. And I would argue that the Bears may have gotten a little excited.

[A]

Okay, so that's different than playing it well and staying in your lanes. I think the Bears accelerated the pitch. Loveland did too quickly. He had time to pitch that ball off and it went. And we heard Caleb say that the cornerback snuffed, sloughed off. So he didn't commit to Loveland.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And when he didn't commit to Loveland, he was able to react to Swift, who basically was receiving the ball right behind Loveland and not out to the side of love.

[B]

Yeah. We're asking a lot in these moments. Asking a lot after the fact. However, as long as we're doing it.

[A]

Yeah, but let's just. I would say this, though. This is not critical of Colson Loveland. It's not. It's. I'm not getting after him, blaming him or anywhere. Just saying that. I mean, I'd be excited, too, like, to be able to execute that. All that has to go. Right.

[B]

But just think the moment you're in the huddle and you're like, holy shit, we're running the hook and ladder.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Like, you've got to be geeked. He's a kid.

[B]

I know he's a kid.

[A]

You got to be geeked.

[B]

So ideally. Ideally, it almost turns into an option play because he's. He catches it and then it's back.

[A]

To the end zone.

[B]

I'm thinking from, you know, basketball principles here. It's the equivalent of you throw it into the post and then you've got a, you know, dribble handoff. You could do that. It's like a triple post, split post action there. Pinch.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So ideally, he almost can turn and draw that defender to him. He can make a move with. Instead of standing there. Okay, I have the ball. I'm frozen. If he catches and turns with intent.

[A]

Turns his left shoulder, it just.

[B]

Exactly as if he's going to the basket.

[A]

It shows the quarterback the ball, and he's got it.

[B]

Here he goes. And then the quarterback doesn't realize or isn't thinking about somebody crossing underneath. Then the pitch.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You've already drawn the defender to you.

[A]

It probably. They probably only needed one step for Swift to get to the outside.

[B]

The other problem, though, is that because of where commit was in the back of the end zone, the recognition for them to come off and up the field is also part of that timing. That Comet's got a sell, sell, sell. And he half tried to turn into a blocker at that point. I'm not sure how they coach it. Yeah, half.

[A]

Half turned to half into a blocker is a correct phrase to use.

[B]

Right. Because it wasn't quite angled properly to be a blocker.

[A]

Maybe because the pitch was too. Too quick.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because it was like hot potato it was receive, the snap, throw, catch, pitch.

[B]

Right instead of catch the pass, turn as if you're going to go force the conflict and the commitment and then pitch right.

[A]

It was there, though. It was there. So that's why I think Johnson's pissed. That's why I think he reacts that way to Kevin. But let's take one step further. I believe Johnson thinks that's a game winning play that he just called and.

[B]

Then they just weren't ready to get the other play in and he just.

[A]

Wasn'T ready to get the other play in and he was like, fuck it.

[B]

We'Re going to win it right here.

[A]

Yeah. Thinking it's going to go in. Oh, we didn't win it. We didn't win it. Now we got to call something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What do we do here?

[B]

That may be. Well, you learn from that, Ben.

[A]

Yeah, Frodo for sure.

[B]

Won't happen again.

[A]

No, I mean the whole thing is a great learning experience and that, that goes beyond being clutch in a high pressure stake situation.

[B]

That is.

[A]

I mean, you've got four seconds. You've got to, you've got to run, you've got to get that. You got to get it. Get lined up, you're on the road. Yes.

[B]

As far as getting it.

[A]

Hostile environment with noise. I mean, that is. That's a nice.

[B]

Half your team's got the flu.

[A]

Right, right, right.

[B]

We can't say that enough. By the way, the Bears were in that game down to the final play and almost half of their team was sick or he's going to be sick this week. That's what I was thinking about of the guys who didn't get sick, who are still incubating it and they're all passing this around. Isn't that within the next few days, are we going to find out there's more sick people?

[A]

Johnson mentioned that they were wearing masks and they were doing extra sanitation and washing hands and trying the best they could. But how can you do that with like a football practice? I mean, that's, that's really hard to do.

[B]

I don't know. You can't fly everybody on separate planes either.

[A]

Well, you could. Well, I mean, they have the money for it.

[B]

No, they don't.

[A]

I mean, the Caskeys don't have much money. Players do. They could do their own private jets.

[B]

They didn't have enough money to finance their own city.

[A]

They took a Greyhound out to the game. Did you know that?

[B]

McCaskeys did.

[A]

Yeah, they rode the Greyhound. Actually drove it. George did.

[B]

He drove the Joad family car. He had to keep stopping.

[A]

It's one of those old school minivans with the wood paneling on the side.

[B]

Like Town and Country.

[A]

Did you guys have one of those? No, we had a station wagon with the wood paneling on the side.

[B]

We never owned a station wagon.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Never. We always. Chevy Caprice Classics.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Big honking.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

V8.

[A]

Oh, they were.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you could drive through a brick wall. Yeah.

[B]

Big old Caprice Classics.

[A]

That was the old cop cars.

[B]

Big mom car.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did you ever have anything with a bench seat in the front? Yeah. Okay. Do you ever sit in the middle?

[B]

That was the Buick Regal.

[A]

Do you ever sit in the middle?

[B]

No.

[A]

My.

[B]

I would sit with my chin. I sit in the backseat. No seat belt.

[A]

Yeah. Of course.

[B]

With my hands, like Kilroy. And my. My parents would be there, and I would think about.

[A]

Right. Right in. Right in the middle of them. Yeah. Think about.

[B]

Think about that.

[A]

I got to sit in the middle.

[B]

Think about having that in your car.

[A]

I would sit in the middle. Oh, no.

[B]

In the back seat.

[A]

Yeah. Too close.

[B]

With my head, like, in between them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Giving all of my thoughts on everything.

[A]

Sharing everything they're doing wrong.

[B]

Could you imagine?

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh, I would have put an ejector seat in there.

[A]

Right. With a little sunroof and just shoot you right out.

[B]

Launch the kid. Yeah.

[A]

No, I got to sit in the middle of the bench seat right in front of the, like, overflowing ashtray.

[B]

Oh, I do that well, too. Absolutely. I listened to WBBBM News Radio 78.

[A]

Because then it was the big hump in the middle, so your legs were elevated, your legs were up, so your knees were into the ashtray.

[B]

No good spot for you, young man.

[A]

Walk out and rub off all the ashes off your knees.

[B]

Yeah. You learn about life that way. Smell like America. Like it should. Damn it.

[A]

All right, so I think. I think Ben Johnson thought that play was going in, which is why it was delayed getting the next call in, which is why he was pissed off.

[B]

Okay. Okay.

[A]

That's what we're going to go with.

[B]

And I don't mind it.

[A]

No, I don't know. I don't mind it. That's great. They ran a hook and ladder play.

[B]

On the goal line. I know. And it wasn't.

[A]

It wasn't like midfield or end of.

[B]

Half by the boundary.

[A]

That.

[B]

That was. That was on the goal line. They called it. And they got it called. They ran it. Okay. Like, they executed some of it. It wasn't ideal, but that's football, man. That's okay. They're the team doing stuff like that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Which is fine. I can live with that.

[A]

I hope you can.

[B]

Well, you have to. Now we just. This is, like I said this on dbu too. We have to understand that this is our world, that he's gonna call stuff like that.

[A]

Because Ben Johnson was happy with the call, even if you weren't. Yeah. Yeah.

[D]

You're not.

[B]

We should keep these. Make sure we have a compilation of Ben Johnson red ass moments. I thought actually the halftime interview that he did last night with Melissa Stark was a little testy.

[A]

Was he going into the locker room? Because I ran. I don't know when she got it. Studio real quick.

[B]

Well, they showed it when they were coming out, but she may have gotten.

[A]

It when they probably got it when.

[B]

They were going in. I don't know. Because they don't have to tell you when they actually recorded. Yeah. Or if it was live. But he was. He was pretty short with her, I thought.

[A]

Well, he wasn't happy with the offense the first half. He called it. The offense was hit or miss. Oh. He talked about injuries, too. So we know that showing was a concussion. And then Noah Sewell was an Achilles.

[B]

And Nishan Wright was a concussion. They just didn't say anything about it.

[A]

Right. He clearly had one. All right, here's another cut from Ben Johnson on the. He was asked about the pass rush. It seemed like Purdy had a lot of time to throw. Just from what you can diagnose with the pass rush, what do you think was some of the issues with that tonight?

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah. I mean, he's a dangerous player, particularly when he can see down the field and have that much time. I agree with you. And then he extended some of those plays with his legs, too. And he did a real nice job. And we certainly didn't affect him enough.

[A]

It didn't affect him at all. I think he had one sack, one. One pressure. That was about it though, right? Yeah.

[B]

I'm not sure how you answer that.

[A]

Other than unless it's just not good enough. Did Sweat have one that he escaped? Oh, my God, yes. We haven't talked about that fucking touchdown pass he threw when he's dancing back and going back and forth. And your guy Billings is.

[B]

After he compared that to the Randall Cunningham play and it's Brock Purdy.

[A]

That was really pissed me off.

[B]

It was pretty cool, though.

[A]

It was super cool if you're a Niners fan.

[B]

Yeah. I thought he might have been over the line. Over the line?

[A]

Oh, I. Yeah, I thought it was. He wasn't. Yeah, he wasn't even close. I mean, he finishes over the line, but he throws it behind the line.

[B]

It was fine. Yeah, but I was worried at the. At the time. Wait a second. I'll come back here. You.

[A]

I was really pissed with that play. That. Oh, that. Really? Yeah.

[B]

Poor Big Bill.

[A]

He had no chance.

[B]

He's trying, though.

[A]

I know he had no chance.

[B]

I know he had no chance. He knew he had no chance, but he was. He was trying.

[A]

I wanted to say some things out loud. I just didn't like what. I was mad. I was mad. Yeah.

[B]

He's not supposed to clown you.

[A]

He's not supposed to do that.

[B]

Brock Purdy is not supposed to all the dancing.

[A]

Oh, speaking of, I got a. I got a text from. From Johnny something during the game, and he was like, brock Purdy's my new number one guy to hate. I get it. Yep.

[B]

That's absolutely. Hey, go ahead. It's like my guy's Trey Young sometimes, you know, you can do that. But what is the Luther Burden dance? The little step, step, lean back. It's very jazzy.

[A]

It sounds the way you just did it.

[B]

No, I liked it.

[A]

It sounded very jazzy.

[B]

I liked it. He had a thing and a thing, and then he sort of threw his head back and did the, like a. Like a freeze frag flash dance. I don't know what it was.

[A]

All of a sudden, there's a scene from a movie that just came. I can't. Oh, my gosh. It's like blurry. You know, I got the scene, but it's blurry. I can't.

[B]

It's not flash dance.

[A]

No, it's not flash. It's a comedy, though. And there's a guy and he does it, and he does step, step, and he pirouette and he said. But he says it, though, as he does it.

[B]

I'll tell you what it is.

[A]

What is it?

[B]

It is Robin Williams in the Birdcage when he's doing Martha Graham. Martha Graham. Madonna. Madonna, Twyla Tharp. And he's naming the choreographers as he's doing the various steps. No.

[A]

No.

[B]

Damn. I thought I had it.

[A]

That's good, though.

[B]

Sure, I had.

[A]

That's good. That would work. I'll figure it out.

[B]

Twyla Tharp. Martha Graham. Fosse. Fosse. Member?

[A]

Yeah. No, that wasn't it, though. It's still blurry. I'll figure it out. I'll figure it out.

[B]

Shoot. I was so sure I had It.

[A]

Good guess, I thought. I was hoping you did so my brain would stop thinking about it.

[B]

I know, I know, I know.

[A]

All right, here's one more from Caleb Williams.

[C]

We can. We can hang with anybody, and if our guys on the other side of the ball, you know, maybe is having a tough day or so, you know, we'll be right there with them, you know, having their back, just as they've done for us in a multitude of games.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

All right, so let's talk about first. Let's first Talk about Week 18 coming up with Detroit.

[B]

All right. My first thought is Ben Johnson wants to kick the Lions ass because the Lions embarrass the Bears. He wants to make sure that they. They continue to keep their expectations high for their quality of play, every win matters, etc. And I get it. But if the other game is decided, if the Eagles are losing and you don't need the win to get that number two seed, it's.

[A]

They're happening simultaneously concurrent.

[B]

Yes. So you don't want to do, you know, somebody in charge of scoreboard watching? If you get to the point as soon as you reasonably can I take everybody out and put in Bay Gent and everybody else.

[A]

All right. I don't think they're going to scoreboard watch and react that way based on the game, unless it's like halftime and something stupid. If they go in a half and the Eagles are down 28 points, maybe they react. I don't think they're going to react differently. I don't think that matters. Ben Johnson wants to execute this game from start to finish, and I think they should. I think they should. And if you're a guy that's on the fence, if you can go, you go. You play. Because you haven't accomplished anything yet. You've won your division, you have a chance to be the 2 seed. And here's why it's important, Dan, because, say, Seattle claims the one seed. Let's just put Seattle there for the sake of the conversation. You are one Seattle loss away from in the divisional round from hosting the NFC Championship game as the 2 seed. I mean, you could. You could theoretically have the Rams and the Niners at 5 or 6, and if one of them has to go to Seattle in the divisional round, they could win.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You could host the Rams or the Niners at Soldier Field for the NFC Championship Game.

[B]

That's a. That's a fair counterpoint. Yeah, that's a good counterpoint.

[A]

You've got to do whatever it takes to Secure that spot because you are one Seattle or whoever, the one seed is, divisional loss away from hosting three playoff games. You get your wild card, you get your divisional round. You would host the NFC Championship game, and all it would take is a number one seed to lose in the division round. One game, which we know can happen all the time. So, yeah, you. You go balls of the wall to win this game. And on top of it. On top of it. And I don't think he would ever mention it or talk about it publicly. 52 to 10, right. Or 52 to 21. What was the final? Yeah, I don't remember the final. I know it was 52 to something or other. What does A Beautiful Mind say over there?

[B]

I have 21 to 52.

[A]

Okay, so I was right. My second guess. 2152.

[B]

That's what I wrote down. Yep.

[A]

He. That's not sitting well with him. It can't. It can't be. This guy's too competitive and he's too detailed. He can't let that sit.

[B]

I don't want to show him much more of my. My special plays, though, off. Off the. The reserve list.

[A]

Oh, he's got so many special plays.

[B]

But I don't. I don't want to. I don't want to go into that part of the wine cellar that's, you know. You know when they say the. The special, the owner.

[A]

Yeah, it's the stuff that's not on the menu anywhere.

[B]

The owner gives a nod to the sommeliers. You know, take. Take something off the personal collection. I know that, Ben. When it comes to some of these plays, I don't know if the hook and ladder was on there or having Daniel Hardy in the backfield. I don't know what's on the reserve list, but that's a secret part of the cellar where you want to keep those for the playoff games.

[A]

Yeah. I just think you go all out. And from what I've learned of Ben Johnson this year in my, My. My guess is not going to be concerned with the Eagles game. They're going to go out to win this game. Execute start to finish. And I think that's the way they should go about it because they haven't accomplished anything yet.

[B]

All right, I've got a couple of notes here as well.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

First of all, we're waiting to find out about the final play injury to Luther Burden. ESPN reported that it was not considered serious, but that it was a quad injury. Burden spoke after the game. He was available. He walked off gingerly under his own Power and then was taken on a cart. Maybe it was precautionary. He said he was tired. We'll find out more. I don't know if he's undergoing any more imaging today, but here's some numbers, just some food for thought. Okay. As of right now, DJ Moore has 49 catches for 671 yards. Colston Loveland has 48 catches for 622 yards. Roma Dunze has 44 catches for 661 yards. Luther Burden has 44 catches for 617 yards.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

I would venture to bet that this far through a season, there has never been a team with that kind of equitable distribution of catches and yards among four receivers.

[A]

Ever.

[B]

I would love to find a comp. Have you ever. You talk about finding the open guy and obviously there's injuries.

[A]

Just wide receivers, just.

[B]

Well, no, just your top four.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I want you to show me another team where the top four receivers are in this tight a range in both stats. Not just catches, not just yards, but both catches and yards. This kind of similar production in that tighter range. 49, 48, 44, 44, 671, 622, 661, 617. I mean, come on. What that says about how democratic small D this is.

[A]

Yeah, let's see.

[B]

You'll be here all day.

[A]

It might be.

[B]

You'll be here all day. I mean, every good team with this kind of production's got one guy that's got 80 and 1200. There's always a bell cow. There's always a primary target. And this in large part, it's just dumb luck. It's availability, it's injuries. Some of it's game planning. But that's. That's amazing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The first thing I thought of the very. The team that came immediately to my head, and that's why I asked, if you're looking at just four wide receivers, is the 99 Rams. Well, and the 99 Rams had Marshall Falk, who was their leading receiver as far as receptions are concerned. But there's a drop. Off it goes. Falk 87, Bruce 77, Hakeem Holt was 52 and Hakeem at 36. So not. Not quite there.

[B]

That has got to be. And you know, past you might be right. However you want to distribute anything you can. You can use your fullbacks and. But forget position. Look at that distribution. Those are your leaders. Show me another team ever that's had a top four with that kind of equality of production. It's not necessarily a great thing. Because you would love for a guy to have a, a Pro bowl year.

[A]

No, I would certainly love that. But again, I just think that that speaks to the growth and development of the process that they've gone through. The growth and development of Caleb Williams and also too. I mean, Luther Burden was barely getting opportunities. Colson Loveland and Cole Comet were. I mean, they virtually weren't there in.

[B]

Receiving, but they've handled Burden really well.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, no, it's been, it's been a great progression.

[B]

The way they spoon fed him everything and talk.

[A]

I mean, remember training year?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The tight ends weren't even there to catch balls. Yep. That was delivery.

[B]

Loveland was hurt. Yep.

[A]

You know, you're probably right.

[B]

Yeah. There's no, no way. There's, there's no way another team is going to have that, that kind of equality of production. You couldn't even, you couldn't do that if you tried. And again, it's not inherently great to have everybody around the same numbers, but it does say that they're not playing favorites. They're going to throw to whoever's open. Whoever's healthy and open is going to get the ball. Who knows where Zacchaeus would be if he caught some of these?

[A]

God. Well, I mean, he. How many has he dropped?

[B]

I mean, he's six at least.

[A]

Yeah, he wouldn't, he wouldn't be that. What's, what's, what are his numbers right now? Do you even have it in front of you or.

[B]

No, I'm going to look them up.

[A]

He's, he's nowhere near that. Oh, wow. So I looked. My second look was a 94niners. Not even close. I mean, Jesus Christ. We take Jerry Rice out of it. Yeah.

[B]

Well, you're distributed pretty evenly, but you can't do that. That's not how these things work. Alamode. Zacchaeus has 39 receptions for three.

[A]

Does he really?

[B]

Yeah, for 313.

[A]

39 catches this year or life this year.

[B]

He's got 39 catches. Cole Comet's got only 28 for 331.

[A]

He's been blocking those so much.

[B]

Swift has got 33 for 291. Talking about the number of guys who are going to hit 30. That's pretty cool. That'd be 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Zacchaeus catches one. He's. He joins the 40 club.

[A]

So that 94 Niners, Ricky Waters, 66 receptions, Brent Jones 49, John Taylor, 41. But then Jerry Rice throws it all off with his 112 receptions.

[B]

Yeah, so.

[A]

And his 1500 yards.

[B]

So feel about that however you want.

[A]

Yeah. No, that's cool.

[B]

Yeah. The other note that I had regarding the Bears was the fact that Jalen Johnson did not start the second half. He was taken out of the game for Tyreek Stevenson. So that happened.

[A]

Yeah, we discussed that a bit last night, but couldn't. I mean, it wasn't eyeballing it enough to have the answer.

[B]

Here's what Brad Biggs reported in the Tribune, right. Tyreek Stevenson was notified coming out of halftime he would be playing in place of Jalen Johnson. That's the way he phrased it. Johnson played 55 snaps. Stevenson wound up was 18. Maybe the coaches are still bringing Johnson along a little bit after his return from injury. The defense was certainly on the field way too long in the first half. When asked about the rotation at the position, Johnson said, I'm 100%. He came back to play in the fourth quarter. He said he's unsure if he'll be splitting time moving forward. I don't know, Johnson said. I'm 100% right now. That's above my pay grade, so keep an eye on this.

[A]

Yeah, that's not. That's not what you want in your locker room.

[B]

Johnson made a great play on that first Brock Purdy pass. But if Tyreek Stevenson is now taking snaps from when we started the year, he was the best player on the Bears.

[A]

Jalen Johnson. Yeah.

[B]

Yes, he was the Bears best player. Now he's not. Joe Tuney is. But wherever, however far down that list he may be, just this is. This is notable. Keep an eye on it.

[A]

All right. Next thing I want to discuss with you, because we started it last night talking about the Bears defense and the lack of pass rush, and you made a comment that as constructed and as they play defense right now, the Bears will not win a Super Bowl.

[B]

I don't think you can win a Super bowl with that anemic A pass rush.

[A]

And I agreed with you last night, and I started to evaluate and look over the entire league and all the playoff teams, and I'm going to disagree now, today, having more time to think about it.

[B]

Damn it, I didn't. I would have done research, too. Oh, no. There's no reason fair. You can't come here and ambush me because you did homework.

[A]

There's no ambush.

[B]

This is my anxiety dream.

[A]

There's no ambush.

[B]

This is. You didn't tell me there was the assignment, and now there's a test. First of all, damn it.

[A]

There's no assignment. There's no Test.

[B]

But you can't do this.

[A]

This isn't an ambush. Oh, yeah, it is.

[B]

This is an anxiety dream.

[A]

No, I. It is.

[B]

This is like I'm running around the high school because I didn't know that there was this. I didn't do the reading.

[A]

I'm rethinking my own process with it all. So I. I think the Bears can win a Super bowl this year as constructed.

[B]

Yeah, but you did research. I. There's not.

[A]

There's not a whole lot of research here.

[B]

It's just.

[A]

Here's what I'm looking at. They've already won 11 games. They're 11 and five with this defense. Okay. And I know we talk about the sustainability of the turnovers and how it's not going to happen next year. You can't move forward. Well, it doesn't matter about next year. We're talking about this year only. And right now, when it comes to takeaways, the Bears are the best team in football. When it comes to takeaways, that's the constructed team. Lack of pass rush, injuries.

[B]

They almost had it with reserves.

[A]

That was. That should have been. That changes the whole game, man. That changes the whole game. They forced that guy who's red hot right now, into two interceptions, a tip ball, something the jets haven't done yet. And then Gardner Johnson makes a play. He gets in the right position. No, you can't rely on it, Dan, but you can coach it and you can prepare your guys for what the offense is going to do and what positions you need to be and where you need to be on certain plays. Gardner Johnson was in the right spot. He made that play, executed it. Okay, so they've won 11 games so far this year. And now I want to just take a look at the game last night. The Niners, the opponent last night, the Niners, Dan, have. They've scored half a point more per game than the Bears. Okay? So the Bears are right up there. They're a top 10 scoring team, as are the Niners, half a point ahead. I know the last couple of weeks have been just red hot on fire. Crazy. San Francisco allows 22.4 points per game. The Bears allow 24.8. They're right there. Okay. When the Bears have allowed 24 points or less, do you know what the record is? Nine and.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

When they've allowed 24 points or more, the two and five. Okay, get. It makes sense. But if you can hold a team, Dan, this is a lot. Three touchdowns and a field goal and you're nine and, oh.

[B]

But these other teams have. In the playoffs, they have defenses.

[A]

I know they do, but they don't have Caleb Williams, though, either.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

They don't have the Bears running game either. Okay, so let's take a look at that real quick. You have more research. That's not research. It's. If I would have called you and been, hey, this is what I'm working on, you'd have been like, oh, yeah, that's great. That's great. And then we would have hung up and you wouldn't have done anything different. This is the bullshit. Don't. You're so cute and you're angry. It's so cute. Bullshit. It's so cute.

[B]

Oh, it's just like. I didn't know there was reading. I didn't know there was an assignment.

[A]

There wasn't an assignment.

[B]

Apparently there was.

[A]

Well, did you check your email? Because it was in the email when the assignment was in the email.

[B]

Which email?

[A]

The one email where you get the thing that comes into your computer.

[B]

Crazy. All right, fine.

[A]

All right, so I want to look at teams that have. That are in top 10 yards per game. Okay. Top 10 yards per game.

[B]

All right?

[A]

Dallas is number one. Detroit's number six. Okay. They're not making the playoffs. The other eight are in the playoffs. Rams, Bears are three, New England four, Buffalo five. Niners seven, Seattle eight, Denver nine. Green Bay is 10. Okay, okay. Points per game, Houston's one, Seattle two. This is a points allowed. Points allowed per game. Houston's one, Seattle two, Philadelphia three, Denver four, New England five. Rams are seven, Chargers eight. Jacksonville's nine. Okay, so eight of the top 10 again. Now, this is where the Bears slip down a bit. Points per game. They're at 22. And there's only one other team worse than the Bears. As far as points allowed per game that have a potential to be in the playoffs, that's Tampa. And Tampa is 24th right now. So that's. That's a weak spot right there in points allowed. But again, you hold A team to 24 points or less, you're undefeated this year.

[B]

Okay, okay, well, let's look at it backwards then.

[A]

Let me finish one last one. Rushing.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Rushing yards per game. Number one is Baltimore. Number two is Buffalo. Number three of the Bears, four is not in the playoffs. Five is not in the playoffs. Six is not in the playoffs. The Rams are seven. Eight is not in the playoffs. Nine is not in the playoffs. Ten is not in the playoffs. Only four of the top ten rushing teams are going to the playoffs. Baltimore, Buffalo, the Bears and the Rams. Okay, so again, I get it. The points allowed, 22nd. That's not good. But in this season, Dan, in This isolated season, 2025 NFL season, from what the Bears have done through their first 16 games, even with the pass rush and the turnover differential, they can certainly win a Super bowl this year, even with that weakened pass rush.

[B]

Okay. The only team that has ever had a legitimately bad defense that's won a Super bowl is the 2011 Giants. They gave up over 25 points per game. What are the Bears averaging?

[A]

24.8.

[B]

Okay. The Giants were 25th in points allowed. The Bears are where.

[A]

22Nd.

[B]

The 2006 Colts. You remember them? You remember the team they beat to win the Super Bowl?

[A]

Yep. That's Peyton Manning.

[B]

They were ranked 23rd in defense. The 2009 saints were. Were 20th.

[A]

And how did the Colts win that game?

[B]

The Colts, Yeah. Well, they ultimately won it because Danielle Manning didn't know what defense the Bears.

[A]

Were in, but Peyton Manning wasn't throwing the ball over the field. Peyton Manning didn't beat you that game. The rushing game beat.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

The running game beat you that in that Super Bowl.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

They couldn't stop the run. And remember what we talked about last week? Was it Matt Miller? We asked, what can the Bears do with a lack of pass rush? He said, stop the run better.

[B]

I don't know if they're capable of that, and I don't know that. That might mean playing three linebackers, which they were doing before. No, Sewell got hurt.

[A]

But it also means that maybe this is your adjustment, and it's the only logical adjustment you can make. The only feasible adjustment you can make going into week 18 is to. All right, we know we're not going to get to the quarterback as much as we want to with our front four, so let's shut down the run more.

[B]

It's same front four. They're in charge of doing that.

[A]

I know, but the linebackers need to be involved in that, too. Or a safety. I know.

[B]

Okay. I mean, you can put a guy in the box.

[A]

I'm trying to find some kind of solution.

[B]

I mean, you can. You can bring a guy into the box. That's easy. You just change the count. And then. Then you're going to be throwing it out to the sides. You're going to be seeing different responses to it.

[A]

And then doesn't that fill in that whole philosophy more of. Of like that coverage and that deep cloud where it's the bend? Don't Break. When the. Last night it was bend and break. But. Well, but you're also. You're not going to get a team going to five or five in the red zone for touchdowns.

[B]

It's just.

[A]

It's not going to happen. And you're also not going to go over five like the Packers.

[B]

Let's say this. Of course they can win the Super Bowl. Of course they can, because things happen. It just makes it very unlikely.

[A]

It makes it more difficult. I wouldn't say unlikely. It makes it more difficult.

[B]

Same thing.

[A]

Not really. Let's talk about sacks, too. Top 10 in sacks.

[B]

Let's talk about you and me.

[A]

Not. Not. Not your sack. Let's talk about sex.

[B]

Good things and the bad things that may be.

[A]

All right, what teams are. Are in the top 10 in sacks right now?

[B]

Denver, Houston, Broncos, Broncos and Broncos.

[A]

Denver, Houston, Pittsburgh, Seattle, Philadelphia. Okay, top 10 in sacks, bottom 10 in sacks. Jacksonville, New England, Carolina, Baltimore, 49ers.

[B]

Now, isn't Jacksonville also having a very charmed turnover year?

[A]

Jacksonville is actually fourth right now in turnover differential. Okay. The middle of the pack as far as sacks are concerned. Chicago, the Chargers, the Rams, Tampa Bay, Buffalo, Green Bay.

[B]

Yeah. Sacks are one stat. A lot of it is talking about.

[A]

Hurries, pressures, and knockdowns. I get it.

[B]

Knockdowns are usually. Oh, quarterback. Knockdown, quarterback.

[A]

Knockdown.

[B]

Passes being knocked down is usually evidence of a lack of pass rush.

[A]

Austin Booker twice last night.

[B]

That means you're not getting home. You're blocked, and you got to put your hands up.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You'd much rather have somebody who's sitting on the quarterback's head. I'd rather standing eight feet away with their hands up.

[A]

I'd rather prevent the ability for the pass to be thrown. But what's the next best thing? Not allowing the pass to get to the guy being thrown to. Right.

[B]

Well, intercepting it, it'd be great.

[A]

Sure. Yeah. But not from a defensive lineman. That'd be really hard. Possible, but harder. All right, turnover differential. The Bears are plus 22. Houston's plus 14. The Rams and the Jaguars are plus 12. Okay. The Chargers are plus 4. Philadelphia is plus 5.

[B]

That.

[A]

I mean, those. Those are the top in playoff teams. It goes from 22 to plus 5. Philadelphia.

[B]

Okay, so you are. You are. This is a long way of saying that you believe the Bears can overcome their lack of a pass rush to win the super bowl because they have.

[A]

Through 16 games already and they've won 11.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because you have Ben Johnson, you have Caleb Williams.

[B]

I hope you're right.

[A]

Now Look, I was looking at turnover differential. Listen to this. Three of the teams in the bottom 10 are Seattle, Denver and San Francisco. Seattle's A minus 4. Denver and the 49ers are minus 5 because they're good.

[B]

They don't need. They don't. They don't live off of. If you. If they get them, fine, they're good. How offensively, Just in general a team.

[A]

If you are. But I just showed you stats where the bears and the 49ers are comparable. Offensively.

[B]

Offensively, yes. I just think that the teams that.

[A]

Have the balancers are worse. Defensively especially. They haven't been. They haven't been able to overcome their injuries. And now that if Trent Williams is out for week 18, if he's out with a hamstring, and now you have the opportunity to game plan against that, that's going to be more impactful than what we saw in the game last night. Yeah.

[B]

I'm not sure how much you should have to game plan against a backup tackle. You should trust that a guy could just beat him.

[A]

But they didn't. And we saw the same thing with the Bears when who came in. Was it Theo Benedict? Came in for an injury and actually held his own. Yeah. And that was against a good team, if I remember correctly, with. With edge rushers, he did pretty well. Oh, it was Max Crosby. Who was it that came in against Max Crosby? Was that Tripillo? It was Chapillo. Yes. And he. He equipped himself pretty well in that game. So. Yes. And you know, you can't say that they're. That the 49ers are good. They are a good team, but the Bears are a good team, too. They are a good team.

[B]

And the 49ers, when they had Fred Warner and Bosa were obviously right, but they don't. Right.

[A]

They don't. Coulda, woulda, shoulda. The Bears can win the super bowl this year even with the pass rush.

[B]

They have. All right, again, I hope. I hope you're right. I hope you're right. I doubt it strongly, but I hope you're right. And I will be very happy if you are.

[A]

I was looking at a couple of their teams here. Buffalo plus one and turnover differential, New England plus one. Green Bay's at zero going into week 18. And I just think that that plus 22 that the Bears are. That's more than just luck and magic. I mean, that's good game planning. That's good scheming, that's good understanding. That's good preparation. That's being in the Right spot at the right time. That's executing. How many times have we seen what should have been interceptions against Caleb Williams not go that way because they just don't execute the reception as a defensive.

[B]

Player or people don't fin running to their spots.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like that is something of a, of a team that's bought in too. This is. I, I always go back to the when when Doug Buffone yelled at a caller saying, oh, well, the only reason he picked up that fumble was he was lucky and it came right to him.

[A]

No, he ran to the ball.

[B]

Right. And, and well, and Doug got mad. He said, but it's your job to run to that place on every play in case the ball is there. And when it is there, you should also get credit for, for doing your job the way you're supposed to do your job.

[A]

And how many of those interceptions has Kevin Byard had this year? Where his backs to the end zone.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because he's in good position. Because he knows what's happening.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

That's coaching. That's preparation.

[B]

Good. Well, it makes me feel better about their chance.

[A]

I hope it does. And I hope you're not mad about it.

[B]

I'm not. Can we briefly. I know this is, this has run a little long. Can we briefly ask what the Colts were doing now with the whole Philip Rivers thing?

[A]

Yeah, we certainly can. Because I don't quite understand it. I don't quite understand why you have rookie quarterback that you drafted and you call in a 44 year old grandpa to play and I just, I don't get it.

[B]

It was over. The whole thing was over before this week and then they still started Rivers for another game because they said, well, he, he took all the snaps, so he took all the starter snaps. So he's going to start. Well, I don't know how that gets you closer to winning a championship.

[A]

Yeah, I don't, I don't understand calling it like again, being on the outside and not being a Colts fan. It's a cute story. It really was. It was a cute story. It was, you know, Philip Rivers, I watched his whole career. It was cute. It was not the right thing for the Colts to do. You weren't, you weren't winning a Super bowl with Philip Rivers coming in out of retirement as a high school football coach. You weren't, you have a guy that you drafted who is in his 20s who clearly has some ability to play the position. So you either don't fully believe in him, so why is he there? You're not winning us. You Weren't winning a Super bowl with Philip Rivers coming back. You just weren't.

[B]

Yeah, I think we'll remember that. It'll be years from now we're going to be talking about like, oh yeah, well, you could look like Philip Rivers when he came back that year.

[A]

I mean, what's it say about the whole state of the quarterback position in the NFL when in the last two years Joe Flacco's called off his couch, Philip Rivers has called off the high school football field to come and play? What's that say about the position?

[B]

And it's not like Josh McCown who was called back at age 29 or whatever he was. Guys, 44, right?

[A]

They're in their 40s and I love Frankenstein's monster, but like, come on, man. Like, what are you doing?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

All right, one other thing too. On the board here we have the Steelers and Aaron Rodgers. And so they lose to Cleveland and it forces an AFC north championship battle as the Steelers host the Ravens this coming weekend. Winner takes the division, winner goes to the playoffs. They lose What? They lose 13 to 6, 10 to 6, something like that. I watch a little bit of that game and there's a Dan, it's going into about two minutes left in the first half. So coming into the warning, it's fourth and one and the Steelers are in empty backfield.

[B]

On fourth and one, fourth.

[A]

And one, empty backfield from like the 30 some yard line, 20 some yard.

[B]

Line, little pick play to the outside.

[A]

Aaron Rodgers throws a ball into the deep part of the end zone in the corner. That falls incomplete on 4th and 1. That doesn't sound into the two minute warning.

[B]

That does not sound like a, like a Mike Tomlin approved call.

[A]

So I don't know, that was my first thought that he, that that call didn't come from the sidelines. That that's something that he wanted to do, you know, so like 10 years ago I understood putting up with that guy's garbage because he was an MVP caliber quarterback. Like, what's the deal now? Like, he's not, like he's not the same guy. Why is he still getting all the latitude?

[B]

It's all or nothing with him. It's all or nothing. You get all that comes with it when you decide to turn your franchise over to him and he wants to go get certain guys and he wants to do his off menu signals and he wants to make those decisions and then he'll blame everybody else for the. That's, that's. We called that going in and even.

[A]

With a loss, I mean, Tomlin's still going to be 9 and 8.

[B]

I like the fact that Miles Garrett said the reason the Browns won was that the Steelers were spending too much time and effort to stop Garrett from getting the sack record. And with all the help they were putting over there and rolling Rodgers to the opposite side, they. They were. They were concentrating too much on stopping him, and that's why they lost. And Mike Tomlin, when that was posed to him in response, Tomlin said, no, we weren't. We weren't really doing anything different than we usually do against him. So they were. They were saying that they wanted to keep the sack record in the half possession of their player, TJ Watt.

[A]

What do you. What do you. What's your take on that? Because, like, Miles Garrett.

[B]

My take is Miles Garrett is pissed off he didn't get the sack yet. That's what I'm thinking. And so he's blaming it on their game planning. And because they won the game, he thinks he's able to say that. That's. That was my first thought.

[A]

Okay. Do you think there's any possibility that. I mean, he's a smart guy, knows. Knows the game really well, knows how to play, obviously has played the Steelers multiple times. Anything. There's any possibility that there's truth to it, that they.

[B]

I think there's truth to any time you're going up against him, you want to prevent him from getting a sack.

[A]

Right. But what he saw was a little bit different than what he normally would see. I wouldn't put it past Mike Tomlin.

[B]

I think Mike Tomlin would do it and then very easily be able to reasonably say, that is how we wanted to try to win the game.

[A]

Yeah. All right.

[B]

So both can be true.

[A]

It's still funny, though.

[B]

Both can be true.

[A]

It's still funny. Not as funny as our guy Fish getting yelled at, though. What do you think, Fish?

[B]

Bane?

[A]

You didn't.

[B]

You didn't.

[A]

Did you like that call? Yeah, I like that call. You didn't.

[B]

But it's always an opportunity. When a coach or GM or somebody asks a rhetorical question like that, it's a great chance to give an opinion. Because they almost never solicit your opinion.

[A]

No.

[B]

So I always looked at that as an opportunity for someone to say they would just offer that.

[A]

Yeah, it would have been great if Fish was kind of prepared for that and been like, yeah, no, I like the call, but I would have liked to seen Loveland hold onto the ball a half. A second longer before he pitches it off to Swift because he gave the opportunity for the defense to react too quickly to him.

[B]

I've told you that.

[A]

And then to see what he would have said.

[B]

You remember the Mark Hatley story I've told, right?

[A]

I'm sure. I'll refresh my.

[B]

They're at Platteville. They lost a punt return or somebody got hurt and they needed to have some tryout for punt returners. So they bring in Randall Hill from the Saints, who was nearby. I guess he had just gotten waived by the Saints and was still in Wisconsin or something like that. So they drive him down. They hold the tryout in front of all of us. So they get the jugs machine out there and they're launching these.

[A]

It didn't go well, I'm guessing. Oh, my God.

[B]

So nobody's saying anything. The guy couldn't field a punt. He's running in circles. And it's like he caught one completely behind his head with both hands like this. I'm not kidding. Seriously caught one like this and he was lost out there.

[A]

Have you ever tried to catch, like, an NFL quality punted ball?

[B]

Oh, it comes down heavy.

[A]

Have you ever tried?

[B]

Yeah, of course.

[A]

So I had a guy who. He was in a. He went to.

[B]

If you've played baseball, it's not. You can position yourself, but. But it does come down heavy.

[A]

He was a. This guy was a college kicker and he went to camp with the Chiefs and was. One day we. He. He. You know, we were talking about it and I'm like, let me see what. It's like. Zero chance. I had zero chance.

[B]

Dude.

[A]

It was. It was insane.

[B]

If you get way behind it and close late, like, like you're taught as an outfielder when you're sort of winding into your throw. Yeah, the old Crowhawk.

[A]

Oh, sure.

[B]

Like, you can. It's easier.

[A]

I don't know that way. It felt like it was 100 pounds.

[B]

When it hit me. I know, because, you know, it's 4.3 meters per second per second.

[A]

My God. Yeah.

[B]

And those brutal. And the NFL balls, too, are hard as a rock. They're not the ones you play with in school. They're hard as a rock.

[A]

All right, so anyway, Harlan Hill. What's his name?

[B]

Randall Hill.

[A]

Randall Hill.

[B]

And he's putting on this exhibition of some of the worst punt receiving you've ever seen in your life. And I'm laughing and nobody else is laughing. So Mark Hadley has like a little gang bang scrum afterwards.

[A]

I'm here for the gang bang.

[B]

And people are like, well, Mark, what'd you think of the tryout? And he. Mark Hadley goes, what'd y' all think? He goes, you like what you saw? And I just. I went, no, of course you did. And Halley goes, who said no? And I put my hand there and said. I said no. Did you see that? But it's like they almost never ask. And that was his whole thing. It was so bad. You didn't really have to know anything about football. You know, whatever that job is. Don't have that guy do it.

[A]

I would love to see him catch the ball behind his head. That's amazing.

[B]

And that's one of the ones he caught.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Come on. Maybe you need to catch a ball like that.

[B]

Just his thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know. What do you all think?

[A]

Hey, speaking of this too. And I've thought about it different points of the season. Josh Blackwell.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, special teams demon superstar. But kick returner.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah. No. Right? No.

[B]

It's like he doesn't want to.

[A]

There needs to be someone else back there with DuVernay.

[B]

Yeah. But he's reliable. The second guy can just be somebody.

[A]

Who you trust, I guess, but doesn't.

[B]

Have to be a game breaker.

[A]

Like I'm more concerned with trusting the guy's hands on punts than I am kick returns.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I just wanted to see if we were in this decision making and just.

[B]

Being able to run and fall back to Leon Johnson.

[A]

Maybe that's a. That's like. It's like a bone they toss him for being as great as he is. Aspects of specialty that is something to.

[B]

Watch this time of year. As far as incentives for snaps. I don't know who on the Bears has extra. Maybe some guys two snaps away or four snaps away.

[A]

I haven't looked, you know, because I was going to look last night. It came to my brain after that Niners receiver. Yeah.

[B]

That's happening this time of year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there. There are opportunities to get guys on the field to help them reach and incentivize. That can really help some people who. For whom like, those little things make a huge difference. So that is something to keep an eye on.

[A]

One last thing I have on just looking at the NFC North, Minnesota. Minnesota plays Green Bay. If Minnesota can beat Green Bay and God forbid Detroit somehow beats the Bears. The only division that have all four teams over. 500.

[B]

Wow. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Lions would finish nine and eight, the Vikings nine and eight. Packers would be nine, seven one. Bears would be 11, six. The only division. And if I'd have told you the start of the year that that Lions don't make the playoffs and they finish behind the vikings, who are 8 and 8 going the week 18. You never thought that would be the case.

[B]

Good catch.

[A]

Yeah, good catch, but good. I mean, that's, you know, that's a competitive division and we'll see how long that remains competitive like that.

[B]

Well, that'll do it. For forward Progress for this Monday. We're going to have a very busy week. A lot going on with the Bears and the NFL. So thanks for joining us here on 312 Sports for Progress has Stopped.

[A]

Forward Progress, a Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312 Sports.