Ben Johnson Calls Out Team Leaders

Summary

Forward Progress - A Chicago Bears Podcast

Episode: Ben Johnson Calls Out Team Leaders
Date: October 27, 2025
Hosts: Dan Bernstein & Matt Abbatacola

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the Chicago Bears’ disappointing loss to the Baltimore Ravens and a consequential post-game press conference in which head coach Ben Johnson pointedly called on team leaders to take responsibility for ongoing mental errors and penalties. Dan and Matt break down the fallout from Johnson's comments, assess accountability for the Bears’ mounting issues, and analyze quarterback Caleb Williams’ development struggles amidst the relentless penalty issues. The episode strikes a tone of frustration balanced with analytical scrutiny, digging into both X's and O's progress and the intangible "leadership" gaps plaguing the team.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Bears’ Penalty Epidemic & Lack of Discipline

• Bears’ recent loss felt particularly disappointing: The hosts note that the team is regressing rather than progressing in important areas like penalties and red zone scoring.
• Injury situation is severe and widespread: “The secondary was more than decimated,” Dan observes, summarizing the impact of mounting injuries ([03:38]).
• Penalty problems reaching a crisis point:
  • Bears have 64 penalties for 533 yards through seven games—average of 9 for 76 yards per game.
  • “The Bears are the seventh most flagged team in football...the fourth most flag team in pre snap penalties” – Matt ([20:45]).
  • Penalized for negative 279 net yards; more than double the next-worst team ([22:11]).

Notable Quote

“If you look down to...the net yards based on penalties, the Bears are the worst in football...negative 279 net yards on penalties, they are the worst in football.” — Matt ([22:11])

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2. Ben Johnson’s Press Conference & Accountability Shift

• Johnson publicly challenges the team’s leaders:
  • Calls out lack of “physicality, hunger, and determination.” Implies a shortage of those qualities in his own squad ([14:21]).
  • Explicitly places responsibility for cleaning up mistakes on locker room leaders:

    “I really put it on the leaders there in that locker room to get this ship going the right direction ... Us coaches, we've been pounding that drum now for a while and we haven't gotten the results we wanted. So it's on the leaders here on this team to get us right.” — Ben Johnson ([23:13])

• Dan & Matt analyze the coaching-player-leadership dynamic:
  • Is the issue coaching, messaging, or player execution?
  • Ben Johnson’s message: “That’s a finger, not a thumb.” Dan notes Johnson is pointing at players, not accepting responsibility ([25:50]).

Notable Quotes

“That’s a big deal...That’s a finger and not a thumb.” — Dan ([25:50])
“A coach doesn’t get to do that multiple times in a season.” — Dan on Johnson shifting blame ([24:13])

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3. Who Are the Bears’ Leaders?

• Scrutiny over which players Johnson is targeting:
  • Team captains: Caleb Williams, Joe Thuney, Grady Jarrett, Kevin Byard, Cairo Santos.
  • Position vs productivity vs tenure: Are current captains real leaders? Some, like Williams, have not yet established themselves; others (Joe Thuney) are new to the team ([28:09]).
• Disconnect between leadership roles and performance:
  • Matt questions Caleb Williams’ ability to lead by example given his struggles as a rookie QB ([29:52]).
  • Joe Thuney non-vocal; DJ Moore and Cole Kmet have both contributed to the penalty problems.

Notable Quote

“Leadership isn’t just a title. If these are the guys that are your leaders...You have Caleb Williams whose performance on the field ...doesn't demand that type of [leadership] ... DJ Moore, his effort level has been in question all season long...” — Matt ([29:52])

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4. Caleb Williams’ Performance & Quarterback Development

• Rubric for QB impact:
  • “Win because of,” “win with,” “neutral,” “lose with,” “lose because of” scale explained to evaluate QBs ([08:25]).
• Williams struggling with timing and reads:
  • Recent game saw “bad mark” for his progression.
  • Dan and Matt dissect Williams’ interception and intentional groundings:

    “A read can be rendered wrong. A correct read can in the blink of an eye be an incorrect read. If you throw it late, it’s then a bad read.” — Dan ([33:59])

• Williams and receiver Loveland not “on the same page”:
  • Issue with “choice routes”; frequency of this excuse is raising alarms for the hosts ([39:18], [40:49]).

Notable Quotes

"Truth be told, I expected a little bit more out of our squad...and so we fell short." — Ben Johnson ([13:17])
“It's very possible, Dan, that both are true, that it wasn't the primary read...it could have been a good read, but not the primary read and it was just a bad ball.” — Matt ([33:37])

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5. The "Not on the Same Page" Problem & Play Execution

• Frequent miscommunications between Williams and his receivers:
  • Repeated phrase “not on the same page” is now a red flag for deeper systemic issues ([41:49]).
  • “What the fuck is going on that you're not on the same page?” — Matt ([41:26])
• Details matter:
  • Missed motions, formations, alignments—all reflect coordination breakdowns.
  • Dan: “If the details are off from jump...all of those things have created the problems.” ([41:39])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Injury and Penalty Troubles: [03:38]–[05:44]
• Red Zone Struggles: [04:43]–[05:38]
• Bears’ Leadership & Team Identity: [14:21]–[16:01]
• Ben Johnson Calls Out Leaders: [13:12], [23:13]
• Penalty Statistics Deep Dive: [20:45]–[22:39]
• Debate Over Blame—Coach, Message, or Player: [23:00]–[25:55]
• Who Are the Leaders?: [26:01]–[29:52]
• Quarterback Development Rubric: [08:25]–[10:30]
• Caleb Williams Interception Analysis: [32:08]–[33:52]
• Miscommunications & Play Design: [39:18]–[41:49]

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• Ben Johnson Directly Calls Out Team Leaders:
  • “It’s on the leaders here on this team to get us right.” ([23:13])
• Exasperation over Bears’ Pre-snap & Mental Errors:
  • “Why are we off the same page so frequently?” — Matt ([41:28])
• Honest, Unvarnished Critique of the Bears’ Locker Room:
  • “A coach doesn’t get to do that multiple times in a season.” — Dan ([24:13])
  • “Leadership isn’t just a title. If these are the guys that are your leaders ... you have Caleb Williams whose performance on the field doesn't demand that type of [leadership].” — Matt ([29:52])

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Final Thoughts

Dan and Matt’s frustration with the coaching staff's inability to reach the team, the players' execution, and the lack of visible leadership is palpable throughout this episode. The standout theme is Ben Johnson’s public challenge to his veteran leaders, signaling a turning point in accountability. The persistent issues—especially penalties and miscommunications—are diagnosed as much deeper than just X’s and O’s, implicating culture, preparation, and the suitability of current captains to fulfill their roles. Looming over it all is the question of whether the Bears have the right leadership, both on the field and the sideline, to arrest their slide and develop their prized rookie QB.

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For more Bears analysis and hard-hitting discussions, subscribe to Forward Progress on 312 Sports.

Transcript

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[Dan Bernstein]

10, 2, 19. 219.

[Matt Abaticola]

Forward progress a Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abaticola on 312 Sports.

[Dan Bernstein]

We give you forward progress here on 312 Sports. Dan Bernstein, Matt Abaticola. He's back. The coach is back. After their valiant effort yesterday, the Libertyville was Wildcats.

[Matt Abaticola]

Tough loss at Warren, but good football team. Unfortunately we had to play three levels up in our weight class for some reason. So there's six divisions in our weight class and we played. No, we played four levels up for some reason. That was awesome. That's a nice way to end the season. Week 9 with a team four levels higher than you and your weight class.

[Dan Bernstein]

But anyway, good experience.

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh God. It was such great experience because you learn more from the things you lose, Dan than wins that are fun or enjoyable for everyone involved.

[Dan Bernstein]

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[Matt Abaticola]

I forgot to tell you. I buried the lead in dbu.

[Dan Bernstein]

Why?

[Matt Abaticola]

We're going.

[Dan Bernstein]

Who?

[Matt Abaticola]

Natalie and I, we're getting away to New Buffalo.

[Dan Bernstein]

You are?

[Matt Abaticola]

Yes, in two weeks.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay. Okay.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

Did you tell John at beer?

[Matt Abaticola]

I did not. I'm gonna. I'm gonna show up and just hug him without telling him who I am.

[Dan Bernstein]

Like walking like a weirdo.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah. And then just hug him and then whisper in his ear, hey, yeah, Got.

[Dan Bernstein]

Any pizza for me? Maybe a little. Little Pontius Pilot or whatever you're. Whatever you're.

[Matt Abaticola]

I'm gonna try them all.

[Dan Bernstein]

They're good stuff, man. I can't wait when they bring it out in the cross. Yeah, it's great. We'll talk about them a little bit more later. We always appreciate their partnership. I don't know what that was from the Bears. Oh, first of all, thanks. Thanks to Nepo Dingus for subbing yesterday. It was sort of a last minute thing that we didn't realize that your game was going to get shifted. And it's great to have somebody who is also watching all the games and is willing to work for free. So it was nice of him to sit in on the post game yesterday and let us talk through what was a. A tough day for those of us that like good things to happen to the Bears or wish for good things to happen. Because it's hard to take anything positive away from a pretty gross afternoon other than how even with. And that's the thing. Even though it started out well, you know, being up 6, nothing isn't bad, but you knew it wasn't enough. You knew that that was going to come back to bite him. And everything was said at the time. Not to mention the Bears were banged into that game. Down Kyler Gordon, down Tyreek Stevenson. We knew they were down Jalen Johnson. I mean, the secondary was more than decimated. Decimated means a tenth of the soldiers are killed. That's why it's decimated. So they were more than decimated. I don't know what the next level. Other words that would mean. The similar thing, other prefixes that would go higher than that.

[Matt Abaticola]

They were bad.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, they're injured or hurt bad. But now you've got more injuries that occurred immediately during the game. Dominique Robinson hurt on the very first play, so he's out with the ankle. Shamar Turner hurt his knee. He was carted back to the locker room, so he's out. They lost Luther Burden to a concussion. And apparently today they're checking out Alama Day Zacchaeus with his knee as well.

[Matt Abaticola]

Did he say near foot? I can't remember what it was.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, it's not good. No, it is at the moment. And you know who has injury problems? Everybody.

[Ben Johnson]

Yep.

[Dan Bernstein]

And it's part of the game. It needs to be understood and expected. When you start looking at depth, when you look at rosters and especially when the schedules come out, you're like, oh, win, loss, win, loss, win, loss. You can't do it until you know who's hurt and who's not hurt. So the Bears right now, pretty hurt. And that was an exposure of a lot of our fears from early in the season.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, no. And looking at that game yesterday, you know, you mentioned trying to find some positives for it, and there really aren't any there. There isn't anything positive that you could say. I mean, Kyra Santos made a couple of field goals, but you really don't want the team kicking field goals. You want touchdowns scored. You get in the red zone. The Bears are one of the worst teams in football when it comes to red zone efficiency for scoring touchdowns. They're actually. If you look at them, they're 26th and in red zone efficiency for touchdowns at 48%. Looking at those numbers, Dan, the Philadelphia Eagles, and this is touchdowns only. Red zone efficiency are at 85% for touchdowns, which is insane. But the Bears are down towards the bottom of 26th at 48%. And you get inside the 10, you're inside the five with first down, and you're not scoring. You're.

[Dan Bernstein]

The Eagles gave us some free advertising yesterday, too. Did you notice that?

[Matt Abaticola]

No. No, I didn't.

[Dan Bernstein]

What'd they do with the tush push where it looked like it could have been a fumble, but they. They kept saying forward progress, and all the articles talked about where they were. They called forward progress. They're giving forward progress. Like, there you go.

[Matt Abaticola]

All right, I'll call it. I'll pull it up. I'll grab that. That's great.

[Dan Bernstein]

Keep saying it. It was. And it was in the aftermath and in all the reporting, because I roll. What can you do on a tush push? You can't tackle the guy. And then as they're pushing, you can't knock the ball away and they can just declare it first down to get rid of the play. It ignited all of the same overblown controversy over the play itself.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, that started before the season when they tried to do away with it and unsuccessful in that adventure. And then locally in Philadelphia, there's the dude wipes sponsor the play for the, I think their radio calls. So that's really good stuff.

[Dan Bernstein]

I was listening to some of the radio calls over the weekend on Sirius XM and listening to Wayne Laravy on some of the packers call. And who's that with him? Larry McCarron.

[Matt Abaticola]

That sounds correct. Yes.

[Dan Bernstein]

The old center.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

I like him. He's.

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh, no, it's good. I always loved Wayne. I always loved Wayne.

[Dan Bernstein]

Wayne Larrabee, he'll get mad, too. It's like the packers are getting gashed by the run. Like, okay.

[Matt Abaticola]

He was always so good. I loved him.

[Dan Bernstein]

I'm not doing. They're not stopping the run. And Larry McCarron's very calm, and he doesn't get crazy. He just assesses the play. I don't mind the vibe. I don't. I don't mind it. It's. It's. Yet another thing I always find myself liking about the packers. And I was rooting for the packers to beat Aaron Rodgers into the ground.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah. But with yesterday's game and trying to find positives, there aren't. There aren't any there. No, that's, that's all good. There aren't any there. And it's just looking at it, trying to evaluate it from a calm perspective, being level headed, not the outraged meatball fan that I can be. We've discussed this and this progression for Caleb Williams. We've said the most important thing for this 2025 season is Ben Johnson as a head coach, Caleb Williams as the starting quarterback, giving him a partial redo on his rookie season, giving everything that, given everything that took place last year with the coaching staff, this is the most important thing. And we said that his progression was not going to be linear and you're going to have these games. So in the big picture of things, yeah, this was a bad mark on Caleb Williams for his progression as an NFL quarterback. And I think we. You broke it down pretty nicely on dbu. Looking at the different categories of a quarterback that you, you win because of a guy that you win with.

[Dan Bernstein]

I can just say it again, the rubric, sort of a basic way of looking at the quarterback developmental rubric or evaluation rubric would be a quarterback you win because of and you're just a better team. The line is different because he's your quarterback.

[Matt Abaticola]

Right.

[Dan Bernstein]

Then you have win with where doesn't get in your way, makes enough plays.

[Matt Abaticola]

He's good part of the team effort.

[Dan Bernstein]

Right. And he's. But he win with him. He's not on just automatic. You can win any game because he's your starter. Then you've got neutral. Then you have lose with, you know, not good enough to help you overcome some of your deficiencies. And then you have lose because of meaning if he's your quarterback, you're, you're already underwater, right. You're just, you're, you're going to have to play call program everything around him.

[Matt Abaticola]

So I really like that idea and I'm going to take it a little step further and that, that neutral area, we're going to make that zero and then we're going to do a one and a two and then a negative one and negative two and kind of rank the games. I like that idea to go back and look at it. But here's the thing though. There aren't many quarterbacks in the league that you win because of.

[Dan Bernstein]

No, that's a great quarterback. A great quarterback.

[Matt Abaticola]

Right. There's, there's Mahomes and in my opinion, I would say Joe Burrow, not Josh Allen. It's sometimes, yes. I mean, like last year, they, they won, but he had a spectacular year. But it's, it's not consistent with Josh Allen. It's consistent with Pat Mahomes. For me, it's consistent with Joe Burrow. And I know this is all a subjective, subjective opinion. And yeah, you could argue Josh Allen. Sure. You could argue that he's consistently in the MVP race. Sure. You want to put him in. I'm not going to dispute that.

[Dan Bernstein]

Sometimes Dak Prescott looks like that, sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes Justin Herbert looks like that.

[Matt Abaticola]

Right. But there aren't guys consistently doing it game over game, season after season. Like Pat Mahomes, like Joe Burrow. You win games because of those guys. Sure. Josh Allen. Dak Prescott Hurts is in there. Jalen hurts. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Jalen hurts.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, I don't know. I think Jalen hurts is more a high end win with.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, it's. I mean, it's a really interesting comment, like, you know, conversation to have when you look at all the starting quarterbacks in the NFL. And I think it might be valuable to take a look and kind of, it's sort of see the progression for it.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's a blunter way of expressing the tears that the athletic does every year when they sort of. It's the same thing. Yeah, it's just a much less complicated.

[Matt Abaticola]

Way, which I like, I like less complicated. He's a good guy. I know he goes less fishing with you. Anyway, this is just one of those. It's a bad mark in that, that progression for Caleb Williams.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yes.

[Matt Abaticola]

The most important aspect of this season is Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson. And it's just, it's a bad mark that doesn't result in any kind of end all, be all statement.

[Dan Bernstein]

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[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, so this is Ben Johnson yesterday with the media after the loss to the Ravens. And these are just his opening comments.

[Ben Johnson]

Give Baltimore a lot of credit. You know, they came out and they played a physical brand of football just like you would expect. You know, they were hungry, they were determined and truth be told, I expected a little bit more out of our squad to counter that on up. So we fell short. You know, it's our first game in a while really all season that we didn't have a takeaway. And so when that happens, you really got to play a clean game and we didn't. You know, we're double digits and penalties once again, we're not scoring in the red zone. You know, we couldn't quite get off the field as often as we'd like on defense. So they had some good drives. They, I think time of possession wise they did a nice job controlling the game and like I said, we fell short. But our guys, we're going to get this thing cleaned up. I know they understand how important it is that we play cleaner as a team and we complement each phase better than what we did today. And so that'll be our mission here this week.

[Matt Abaticola]

So not a clean game. Once again. Remember we heard him say after week six he was hoping they'd be playing more clean football. Still not doing it now in week eight.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's getting worse.

[Matt Abaticola]

It's getting worse. He also mentioned about the Ravens. I thought this was interesting. He said that they were physical, they were hungry and they were determined. Those are not characteristics of his Chicago.

[Dan Bernstein]

Bears football team, did they head out there complacent?

[Matt Abaticola]

I don't know. I mean, if you're, if you're, if you, if you go out of your way to say those things about the opponent, that says a lot about your own team.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, all I know is why were.

[Matt Abaticola]

The Bears not determined? Why were the Bears not more hungry going into a game without Lamar Jackson? Why were you not more determined to get a victory on the road going against Tyler Huntley, who the Baltimore Ravens described as having one of the all time great performances? Maybe it was for him. I haven't looked at his career. Maybe it wasn't all on the list.

[Dan Bernstein]

That might be ahead of Tyler Huntley.

[Matt Abaticola]

Great performance for him. Maybe it was just his all time great performance. But why were you not more prepared and ready and determined and hungry to get this win on the road and prove who you are as a football team?

[Dan Bernstein]

What is the second line of the Bears signature victory chant?

[Matt Abaticola]

The good, better, best.

[Dan Bernstein]

That's the first line.

[Matt Abaticola]

Not until your good gets better and your better gets best.

[Dan Bernstein]

Skipping one.

[Matt Abaticola]

What am I? What am I? What am I skipping?

[Dan Bernstein]

Second line. Never let it rest.

[Matt Abaticola]

And you better get better. You better get better. I never let it rest.

[Dan Bernstein]

Are you saying they let it rest?

[Matt Abaticola]

They must have. See, because they weren't hungry, they weren't determined, they weren't as physical. I mean, the head coach is calling out those characteristics of the opponent that to me is like, hey, team, he's frustrated. Ben Johnson's very frustrated with his football team.

[Dan Bernstein]

And it's not all physical effort. A lot of it is mental penalties are. Mental penalties are concentration and awareness. Awareness of where you are in space. Where are you lined up? Where are you standing? Literally, when they. All these football coaches like to talk about presence and they like. And even, you know, managers in sales offices like to talk about being present and be where your feet are, know where your feet. Literally look at your feet. Are you on sides? Are you lined up in the neutral zone? Are you covered up on the line of scrimmage on offense? That is simple stuff. Where are you standing?

[Matt Abaticola]

That's mental stuff.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Abaticola]

Here's what Benjamin here. I want to just play that one more time.

[Ben Johnson]

Truth be told, I expected a little bit more out of our squad to counter that on up. So we fell short. You know, it's our first game in a while, really, all season that we didn't have a takeaway. And so when that happens, you really got to play a clean game and we didn't, you know, we're double digits in penalties, once again, we're not scoring in the red zone. You know, we couldn't quite get off the field as often as we'd like on defense. So they had some good drives. I think time of possession wise, they did a nice job controlling the game. And like I said, we fell short. But our guys, we're going to get this thing cleaned up. I know they understand how important it is that we play cleaner as a team and we complement each phase better than what we did today. And so that'll be our mission here this week.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, it was earlier in the cut. He talks about the mental aspects, the, where you're lining up the pre snap stuff. It's just, it's too much. It's too much. And yeah, you're right, it's not a physical thing. So what, what's the issue? What, like, I don't understand. What is the issue with this football team and the pre snap stuff, the formation stuff? What, what aren't they getting?

[Dan Bernstein]

And I asked this yesterday, I genuinely don't know. Look, you're, you coach kids. I don't know what you do when an NFL team won't stop committing penalties. I genuinely don't know what you can do other than tell them to think, tell them to say you can't bench guys. There's too much money at stake.

[Matt Abaticola]

Right.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's too hard every week to make sure you got your best people out there. You can't say, well, you do this again, you're benched, I'm pulling you out of a game. That is a rare, rare thing at the NFL level.

[Matt Abaticola]

It is a rare thing for penalties. It's not something that you can't do for a player to like. I mean, that's a, that's a basic thing that a youth coach does. A guy has a second holding penalty, so bring him out. You throw another guy out there for a couple of plays, you talk to him on the sideline and you get him back in the football game. Yeah, but yeah, that shouldn't happen for a pro. Like, yes, penalties are going to happen. Like teams are not going to go flawless through a season. I get that.

[Dan Bernstein]

Why on every day return is there an illegal block in the back or a hold? Just why look at the guy in front of you.

[Matt Abaticola]

So Dan, here's the thing. It's, it's one of three things and I made. This is too simplistic. It's either the coach, it's the message or it's the player. And I don't, I don't know if that's too simple but. But for me, the Ben Johnson factor is a significant positive impact. Is it the message? Are they. And I can't see that as being the deficient aspect of that, of that conversation. Is it the player? Do the players. And then you look at the player and the players. Does the player doesn't understand? Are they not good enough?

[Dan Bernstein]

Of what are you accusing the player? Does Josh Blackwell not. Is he not care enough about football because he got called for holding on the kickoff?

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, I know.

[Dan Bernstein]

You know the illegal hands to the face is, is some of it luck is some of it where you're doing the same things on every play and sometimes they call it and sometimes they don't. You know, Nick McLeod is grabbing somebody's jersey. Like things like that where you are. There's always going to be hands play and sometimes the, the line between that flag getting pulled and that flag not is capricious. Is there some of that? Yeah, I think there is some. I think when you go through at the end of the year, there usually isn't a huge difference between the most penalized and. And least penalized teams. It's separated by small margins.

[Matt Abaticola]

Well, here's.

[Dan Bernstein]

So I do think there is some variance involved to be fair.

[Matt Abaticola]

But here's the numbers on it right now. The Bears through seven games have had 64 penalties called accepted on them. 533 yards, 64. 533. That's an average of nine and 76. But if you, if you look at it, the Bears are the seventh most flagged team in football. Okay. Overall, they are the fourth most flag team in pre snap penalties.

[Dan Bernstein]

See jumping off sides or being misaligned. There's no excuse.

[Matt Abaticola]

No, there's not.

[Dan Bernstein]

There's also if you're rushing the passer and the Bears don't get close enough to the quarterback for it to matter all that much. But don't hit the quarterback in the head, don't make contact with the quarterback's head and don't tackle him by his knees. Like those are just rules. Just don't do that.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah. There's nothing more frustrating for me in coaching kids when the defensive line jumps off sides, particularly either a nose tackle or a defensive lineman that is right in front of you. Right. The ball's right in front of you and you're literally jumping over the ball to be offsides. I don't understand how it happens with professional player. I just, I don't, I don't understand it. If you look down to. At the the net yards based on penalties, the Bears are the worst in football. Or number one if you want to make the negative category. Negative 279 net yards on penalties, they are the worst in football. Negative 279 net yards by the John Madden rule.

[Dan Bernstein]

That's close to three touchdowns worth the.

[Matt Abaticola]

31St or the second worst team in football as far as the net yards are concerned. On penalties are The Broncos at 142.

[Dan Bernstein]

Wow. They're double, Dan.

[Matt Abaticola]

The Bears are 279. The Broncos at number two are 142. And the Bears have done that in seven games. The Broncos have played eight.

[Dan Bernstein]

They're more than double. That's a crisis.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, almost. They are. They are double just about.

[Dan Bernstein]

But considering the game in hand.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah. 279, 142. Seven games.

[Dan Bernstein]

Eight games. Now when you talk about it's either the coach, the message or the players.

[Matt Abaticola]

I don't know. Is that too simple?

[Dan Bernstein]

No. So this is why I want you to play the Ben Johnson comment where I may be reading into this.

[Matt Abaticola]

Let's play it.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay.

[Matt Abaticola]

Let's play it. And then you can. Yeah, let's see.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay.

[Ben Johnson]

You know, I think you see flashes of some explosive plays and some really good things happen. But the penalties to me is what stands out first and foremost. You know, we still have some of the pre snap issues. There's occasional not getting lined up quite right. There's occasional not getting the motion quite right. And so that stuff does. It adds up and it hurts us. We get away with it occasionally, but it's just not the way you win in this league. And so I think, you know, I really put it on the leaders there in that locker room to get this, get this ship going the right direction in that regard. Us coaches, we've been pounding that drum now for a while and we haven't gotten the results we wanted. So it's on the leaders here on this team to get us right.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, he's frustrated. He's done with it. The coaches. We've been doing it for a long time.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, we've been pounding it for a lot of talk to that is. We're doing everything you want us to do. Go talk to them.

[Matt Abaticola]

Right.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay. You don't get to do that multiple times in a season.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, I told you. He's very frustrated with his team.

[Dan Bernstein]

That used to be a literal point to the locker room door when coaches would do the post game. Standing outside the locker room, you'd see.

[Matt Abaticola]

In the NBA all the time.

[Ben Johnson]

Yeah.

[Matt Abaticola]

Go Talk to them.

[Dan Bernstein]

Standing outside of the coaches, you know, often there, you point that way. Yeah, because manager's office in baseball, they put that point. That's what that was. Yeah.

[Matt Abaticola]

And like your reporters are asking you, why is your team not doing this? Why. Why are they still doing these things? And Ben Johnson, he's very frustrated. Listen, hey, the coaches, we've been on it. We've been on it.

[Dan Bernstein]

That's a big deal.

[Matt Abaticola]

So go talk to them. Go talk to them about it.

[Ben Johnson]

There's occasional not getting lined up quite right. There's a.

[Matt Abaticola]

Why. Why are you not getting lined up quite right?

[Ben Johnson]

Occasional not not getting the motion quite right.

[Matt Abaticola]

How are you getting motion wrong? What, are the plays too complicated? Do you not understand them?

[Dan Bernstein]

Are they not being called clearly enough in the huddle?

[Ben Johnson]

And so that stuff does. It adds up and it hurts us. We get away with it occasionally, but it's just not the way you win in this league. And so I think, you know, I really put it on the leaders there in that locker room to get this. Get this ship going the right direction in that regard. Regard us coaches. We've been pounding that drum now for a while and we haven't gotten the results we wanted. So it's on the leaders here on this team to. To get us right.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's on the leaders to get us.

[Matt Abaticola]

Right, right, right the ship.

[Dan Bernstein]

Pull that quote. Pull that quote. Yeah, it is on the leaders of this team to get us right.

[Ben Johnson]

We.

[Dan Bernstein]

We've been pounding. We're doing it.

[Matt Abaticola]

Us coaches have done it. We've been doing it for a long time. Now.

[Dan Bernstein]

That's a finger and not a thumb.

[Matt Abaticola]

It's not. It's not working. So talk to them again.

[Dan Bernstein]

Who are they now?

[Matt Abaticola]

Coaches, message players. Coaches, message players. It's not the coaches. Not the message.

[Dan Bernstein]

Ben saying it's the players, the players. So let's. Who's he talking about as far as the leaders? Who's he talking about? He's got somebody in mind. I can tell you one. Caleb Williams. He's talking about Caleb Williams. He's the damn quarterback of the team.

[Matt Abaticola]

Who else? We know that Grady Jarrett is a leader on defense. No, he's. He's. But I know Dan. But he's done it.

[Dan Bernstein]

Grady Jarrett's a tall.

[Matt Abaticola]

They made a story out of that. They made. But he's a leader. He's a leader on that team. Is he a guy? Joe Tooney, is he a guy?

[Dan Bernstein]

I wouldn't even know what his voice sounded like. Dolman, DJ Moore, Follow the money Right.

[Matt Abaticola]

Mine says sweat, then follow the money.

[Dan Bernstein]

Who are the.

[Matt Abaticola]

Well, that's. That's Jonah Jackson. That's Drew Dahlman.

[Dan Bernstein]

But see, I would ask that.

[Matt Abaticola]

When.

[Dan Bernstein]

You, when you say the leaders. Who, who are.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, I know. I just, I, I'm more with that. He's. We, we've. We know that Ben is very calm in his delivery.

[Dan Bernstein]

How did that not get asked? It's on the leaders of this team. Who are the leaders of this team, in your estimation?

[Matt Abaticola]

I don't. Maybe if he doesn't want to say.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, no, no, no. Make.

[Matt Abaticola]

Maybe the regular people know better than.

[Dan Bernstein]

We do, then name him. You can't let him do that and let him say that without asking. You can't call out your players. It's on them. We banged that drum. We pounded that. That's on them now. I'm taking that off my plate. You go talk. Who. Well, honestly, I would say, Coach, we're going to go talk to them as soon as we get done with you.

[Matt Abaticola]

Who are, who are the Bears captains right now? Because I know that there's a floating one every week.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's Caleb, right?

[Matt Abaticola]

Is it.

[Dan Bernstein]

Look him up. Look up Bears captains because that's a huge deal. And when I heard that there were a couple things yesterday because we can let people. When we were texting afterwards, you came back from your game. Jay and I did the postgame before Ben Johnson talked and then after he talked and I started reading those quotes.

[Matt Abaticola]

All right, Caleb Williams, Joe Tuney, Grady Jarrett, Kevin Byard, Cairo, Santos. Those, those are the five.

[Dan Bernstein]

I don't count kickers. Kickers. I mean, whatever. So no commit.

[Matt Abaticola]

No commit. Yeah. Williams, Tuney, Jarrett, Byard, and then there's a, like a floating guy every week.

[Dan Bernstein]

All right, well, there you go.

[Matt Abaticola]

But those, those are the, those are the four main guys.

[Dan Bernstein]

Those are your leaders.

[Matt Abaticola]

I get. They're your captains.

[Dan Bernstein]

All right, well, go out.

[Matt Abaticola]

If I were a reporter, there's your two offensive captains.

[Dan Bernstein]

My week. My week would be.

[Matt Abaticola]

But the question was.

[Dan Bernstein]

Sure, I asked that of every. And asked the same question. Why. Why are there so many penalties and.

[Matt Abaticola]

What are we doing about it? But the question was about getting the offense right. So if you're looking. I mean, you're not expecting Grady, Jared or Kevin Byer to do that. Okay, so that's, that's Joe Tooney and Caleb Williams.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay.

[Matt Abaticola]

Those are your offensive captains.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay. Are there other leaders, however? That's just captains. He didn't say captains.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, he said leaders.

[Dan Bernstein]

I'm sure there are leaders who are. Who Are not captains. Is Roma Dunes a leader because he's your best wide receiver?

[Matt Abaticola]

Well, in that, in that regard, without performance on the field, DJ Moore has to be a leader.

[Dan Bernstein]

Is Cole Comet a leader? He has to be a Walker.

[Matt Abaticola]

Should be. But so, so, but, but what if.

[Dan Bernstein]

Do what he said. Go, go talk to him.

[Matt Abaticola]

One of your leaders though is a culprit in this penalty area as well too. How does that work? You guys need to get in line. What about you?

[Dan Bernstein]

Ask. All you can do is ask. All you can do is get out there and ask these questions. But for a coach to say not, not our problem right now. We, we've been pounding it. Well, let me, that's up to them.

[Matt Abaticola]

Let me say this to you though. I know that leadership isn't just a title. Being a leader isn't just a title. Okay? And if these are the guys that are your leaders that are expected to get the ship right and get these guys in order, you have Caleb Williams whose performance on the field doesn't, doesn't, doesn't demand that type of, I mean he doesn't, his, his position does. His performance hasn't DJ Moore, his effort level has been in question all season long. Joe Tuney is brand new to the team, brand new to the squad, but he's, he's a, he's a guard and not a talker. Not a talker at all. Cole Comet, like you have a lot of fucking penalties. Are you going to hear him out as a leader telling you to get yourself right with the penalties and the pre snap bullshit when he's doing a lot of it? I mean there's a, there's a big disconnect there.

[Dan Bernstein]

These are great questions. Or, or in the back of his mind is Ben Johnson thinking most of the guys on this roster aren't that important right now. I'm not even worried about it. That once I get my guys in here, once, once we upgrade the roster, it isn't going to be a problem. And he's just trying to get to the end of the press conference and doesn't care or is thinking like another.

[Matt Abaticola]

Another option is people are gonna make.

[Dan Bernstein]

A big deal out of this. It's not a big deal.

[Matt Abaticola]

I mean another option is he's just a frustrated guy. Hey, I'm doing everything I can and you know, talk to them about it. I'm tired, I'm tired of talking about it. He's just, he's just being a human, just being a guy.

[Dan Bernstein]

But I'm saying it's, that resonates in the locker room.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, it does. And he's gone to that well once before.

[Dan Bernstein]

It resonates in the locker room when.

[Matt Abaticola]

He said that they weren't practicing hard. Who wants to practice hard to be a part of the game plan this week? You know, Courtney asked the question about two specific players, about Loveland and about Burden and it turned into that whole blanketed thing about not practicing hard as a team.

[Dan Bernstein]

But that's what I want to hear. Now if he says it's up to the leaders of this team now it's time to go find out what he meant. Who are the leaders and ask them the same questions. Because he. Ben doesn't want to answer it. Yeah, he defines.

[Matt Abaticola]

Tired of talking about it.

[Dan Bernstein]

Talking about it.

[Matt Abaticola]

Right.

[Dan Bernstein]

So I want to move on to something else where we have a lot of follow ups to ask. And that has to do with the interception that effectively ended the game.

[Matt Abaticola]

Right. So it was 16, 13 at that point. And Caleb throws the interception. Ben Johnson's asked about it first.

[Ben Johnson]

Yeah, I didn't quite see it. I have to check it out on film just one more time. Just in my mind, there might have been another option that we could have gotten. Gotten to.

[Matt Abaticola]

There might have been another option that we might have gotten to. Now again, we know that Ben in this first half of the season has either taken the bullet or chosen his words wisely when talking about his quarterback decode. That there might have been. Yeah. The code that there is. He made the wrong choice.

[Dan Bernstein]

Somebody else is open. Yeah, that wasn't.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah. Bad read. That wasn't the guy he was supposed to go to.

[Dan Bernstein]

If you speak coach, you know that's bad read.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, bad read. Now here's the thing. Let's go to Caleb Williams who met the media yesterday after the loss. He was asked about the interception.

[Caleb Williams]

It was a good read. Rome, man to man with. With, you know, the guy that caught the pick. And I just didn't give a good ball to Rome.

[Matt Abaticola]

Good read. Didn't give a good ball. Okay. So I've heard both of these comments and have had time to process and think about it. It's very possible, Dan, that both are true, that it wasn't the primary read. It was. It wasn't the right way to go. It wasn't the right decision for the quarterback to make. It could have been a good read, but not the primary read and it was just a bad ball.

[Dan Bernstein]

All of that could.

[Matt Abaticola]

Could be true. But you have to take the history of Caleb Williams under Ben Johnson's offense more times than not he's not making the right read or he's missing the primary read altogether.

[Dan Bernstein]

I'm going to and throwing a bad ball, I'm going to split the difference in a different way.

[Matt Abaticola]

All right.

[Dan Bernstein]

A read can be rendered wrong. A correct read can in the blink of an eye be an incorrect read.

[Matt Abaticola]

When you're late, when you're late, the timing's there.

[Dan Bernstein]

When you throw it on time, it's a good read. It can be fine. But if you're late, it's then a bad read. And once that window is closed and by the time you see it closed, it's way too late. That's where Caleb's not there yet. And I think it was there. And they're like well he undercut it. Of course he undercut it because the throw was laid. That gave him time to undercut it. Everything if you, if you do the stop action of the all 22 and I haven't done it yet but I've seen the play over and over again. It was a good read. And everything Caleb's saying would be correct if the ball was out and waiting for him.

[Matt Abaticola]

All right, so all those things are accurate and true. It just again it goes back to his timing which we've talked about until.

[Dan Bernstein]

Awareness, understanding of its rhythm, its timing and the difference.

[Matt Abaticola]

Now in yesterday's game as opposed was it the Saints or the Raiders game that he should have had two picked that actually went off guys hands or bodies or arms. I can't remember. It was Raiders or Saints but that's, that's the difference. This one's caught. Those weren't. And are we talking about different outcomes in those games if those are picked particularly that Raiders game if that's where it was. Again my memory just, it's. It fails me now as you're looking at your beautiful mind notes.

[Dan Bernstein]

Good luck to me.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, good luck. Can you even know which game was which? Yeah, I'm sure the listeners going around.

[Dan Bernstein]

Screaming at their what am I doing with my life?

[Matt Abaticola]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Dan Bernstein]

Seriously, what am I doing? This is my life.

[Matt Abaticola]

I will say I'm impressed how your notes are consistent through all four quarters.

[Dan Bernstein]

I have a system.

[Matt Abaticola]

My page is diminish a bit as we go through the game.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, well yesterday because we started early. Yeah, I kind of trailed off but.

[Matt Abaticola]

Like, but, but, but that's, that's the difference though.

[Dan Bernstein]

The difference is for years so something terribly wrong with me.

[Matt Abaticola]

Dan, we've talked about Caleb's timing all season and not pulling the trigger when it's there and seeing it late.

[Dan Bernstein]

That's all this is though. That. That's what the puzzle is. That's how you unlock all this. That's how it works. That's how everything is designed to work. And when they run the scripted plays, you can get a glimpse of it.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

When they know what they're going to do and they've practiced some of these things, then it looks okay.

[Matt Abaticola]

Can you maybe just script the entire game and just not. Not be. And not be concerned with the actual game itself if they can remember it?

[Dan Bernstein]

I. That's the. But. But ideally a really good play caller. That's what it looks like. You are scripting the entire game and you're able to write on the fly.

[Caleb Williams]

It was a Rome man to man with, you know, the guy that caught the pick and I just didn't give a good ball to Rome.

[Matt Abaticola]

See now, not. Not that I want either of these things either a bad read or a bad throw, but yeah, he was late on it. I can, I can understand a quarterback making a bad throw from time to time. I get that. I'm not expecting him to be flawless and perfect in his execution of his throws. Bathrooms are going to happen. They're going to happen at every level to every player. The issue of understanding the primary receiver, like that touchdown pass to Mananga, that should have been two games ago, that wasn't. He was wide open. He was the primary guy and made a bad decision. That stuff has to stop. Like that has to stop. I'm never going to say you can't make a bad throw ever. You're going to make bad throws. But that's the stuff that needs to develop in the course of this relationship. We're looking at big picture.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's really interesting. Yesterday during the post game, Jason said, I would much rather he make a bad throw than a bad read.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yes. Because generally speaking, that's not always true. Bad throws don't always turn into ints or six going the other way.

[Dan Bernstein]

He said, just as far as they can.

[Matt Abaticola]

Obviously they can.

[Dan Bernstein]

He said. He said, I'd rather he make a bad throw than a bad throw read. I don't know what happened at the end of the game to DJ Moore wide open in the end zone.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

What was that?

[Matt Abaticola]

I don't know.

[Dan Bernstein]

Like how. What, what was that? It was like he was throwing with his opposite hand. Yeah, I didn't know what was going on.

[Matt Abaticola]

But again, I mean that's. That's part of what, you know, that's part of what he's done in these seven games. All right, I think that's. Is that all the cuts? No.

[Dan Bernstein]

We wanted to get to Caleb on the two intentional.

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

I want to play this one last time. A Bears quarterback had two intention groundings in the same game.

[Matt Abaticola]

I don't know. I'd have to look. I can't.

[Dan Bernstein]

Did anybody say that?

[Matt Abaticola]

I don't know. I'll look it up.

[Dan Bernstein]

Seems like too many, but this was.

[Matt Abaticola]

This was clear intentional grounding. I know the radio call didn't quite agree with it, but it was. It was clearly intentional grounding. Now, here's what. Here's what's interesting about what. What Caleb said on this. He's asked about it. Listen to his answer. Dan.

[Caleb Williams]

The intentional grounding just wasn't on the same page with. With Loveland. I was throwing him breaking out. It's a. It was a choice route. So he has a. Isn't anything about Loveland and anything like that. We just weren't on the same page. It's a choice route. He has a couple different options to break and break in, sit or break out and things like that. And just was on the same page.

[Ben Johnson]

And that.

[Caleb Williams]

That comes with reps and things like that. So I think that's what it. I think that's what it comes down to.

[Matt Abaticola]

All right, so here's the deal. If you remember the route, he was running down the seam, and it was either a break in and sit down or a break out, which usually just.

[Dan Bernstein]

Means, you know, man or zone.

[Matt Abaticola]

Caleb threw the out. He was still running. He wasn't. He wasn't even sitting at this point yet. Okay, so he's. He's still in motion in his route, and he threw the out, and it wasn't even close. He wasn't even close to the ball. So being on the same page and it's not. It's a matter of rep things, it wasn't even close. It wasn't as if Loveland made his break for the out and Caleb threw it.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, maybe Caleb actually did the right thing. Maybe. Maybe Caleb did anticipate the break and threw it on time.

[Matt Abaticola]

Well, if you look at the picture, just even on your TV screen, if you see it, that was the right. The right decision because that in. There's still defenders there in the middle. He turns and sits. That's. That's going to be a harder throw than making a good outbreak when you're going that way. Yes.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Abaticola]

So. And maybe it is just as simple as Loveland not breaking soon Enough. Okay. And them not being on the same page. But here's what I wanted to highlight from that was that comment, the not being on the same page. How many times after these seven games are we hearing that phrase, not being on the same page? When it comes to the run game and offensive linemen, the running backs, the quarterback, the receivers on scrambling playbook, those secondary plays, how many times are we hearing from this team, oh, we're just not on the same page. What the fuck is going on that you're not on the same page?

[Dan Bernstein]

That's coordination.

[Matt Abaticola]

Why are we not on the same page? Or. Let me rephrase that. Why are we off the same page so frequently? Why are there different pages so many times? Why?

[Dan Bernstein]

If you're saying that the motion's not correct, the little things that begin the play from the moment you break the huddle, is your alignment correct? Are your splits right? That is your motion correct? He's even asking, so I mean, are your feet right? And I think the answer is all of the above, that when the details are off from jump. Did you call the playwright in the huddle? Does everybody know what they're supposed to do? Was everything well communicated? That little tiny things by the time the ball snapped? The answer is all of those things have created the problems. And each play is not necessarily this guy's fault, that guy's fault. That's the thing about football.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

You can't look at it like baseball. You can't just say, well, that guy.

[Matt Abaticola]

Struck out with bases loaded or that.

[Dan Bernstein]

Guy dropped the ball when it was hit.

[Matt Abaticola]

Ground ball hit to him. Yeah. Right through his legs.

[Dan Bernstein]

That guy made the first out. Third or the third out at third. Yeah, like those. It's. It's really hard to do that in football because everything is so interconnected.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah. Because on that particular play, a Raven player gets through unblocked, untouched, forces that. That quick throw it.

[Dan Bernstein]

Van Noy.

[Matt Abaticola]

Again, it might have been. Yeah, it might have been. And I think just looking at the picture itself and remembering in my head that was. That was the correct this. But if it's this, if it's a decision, how. If you have two routes that this can conclude in, yet you have a guy that has a hard time pulling the trigger. That's never going to be on time. That's tough.

[Dan Bernstein]

I don't know that I'm going to walk quite that close to the abyss with you.

[Matt Abaticola]

I'm not walking close to it. I pointed it out. I pointed it out.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's way down the road over there.

[Matt Abaticola]

It's way over there. And I'm just letting you know, don't go that way, Dan. I'm not tiptoeing on the edge of the abyss. No, I wasn't calling you in motion. I was saying don't go that way, Dan.

[Dan Bernstein]

You're kind of waving me to. To at least kind of stare into it.

[Matt Abaticola]

I don't believe you, by the way.

[Dan Bernstein]

You see what's down?

[Matt Abaticola]

No. Here's what I have a picture of it. There you go. That puts down there.

[Dan Bernstein]

Oh, I don't want to go there.

[Matt Abaticola]

But you know where I do want to go in two weekends and you're going to. Where do I want to go?

[Dan Bernstein]

You want to go to beer church.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yes.

[Dan Bernstein]

And make some pizza in New Buffalo, Michigan. And I say, yeah, you're gonna, you can go make the pizza and maybe John will just let you. I don't know. If you gotta schedule a party, you probably can get a, you know, special deal over there. But I've done it and I recommend it highly. Not just going and hanging out on the. Especially like on a weekend, there's games on, there's TVs everywhere and there's beer flowing and there's food everywhere. It's just an awesome place. So if you're making that trip and it's a short one, you think about Chicago traffic anyway and you look at how long it takes you to get somewhere, even in the city. Once you get out of the city, it's cake. Or say it's pizza because that's what you're gonna find at beer church. And they've got all sorts of their small batch craft beers that are really good. You can sample em all and they are, they can't wait to see you there. And I know John is a proud partner here of forward progress. If you see him, say, hey, by the way, you know, loving the podcast. Great to hear you on the podcast. But for your party, for your whole crew, for your workplace, they can handle up to 300 people. Or maybe it's not 300. Maybe, maybe it's your fantasy football guys. And at the end of the year the loser is gonna buy everybody drinks or something like that. Go make pizza. It's going all winter. So you can schedule a party there and you learn about the dough and the Italian history of Pizza Napolitan, how to stretch the dough, how to top it. And it takes only the fire is so hot. They put it in there and it feels like it's instant almost. And then it comes out and the cheese is dripping and it's outstanding. So go to beerchurchbrewing.com and look at the schedule. Say, hey, when can you accommodate our group? We definitely want to do this. Or grab the wife and kids and go. It's super kid friendly. They've got a massive menu, which they refer to as the Beer Church hymnal because they lean into the church stuff. And when I say it's a big menu, I mean, there's all kinds of awesome things in here. Oh, don't make me see the light.

[Matt Abaticola]

Don't make me. Don't make me. Can we call you Reverend Bernstein?

[Dan Bernstein]

I start getting into a religious fervor. I'll be speaking in tongues because it's good Beer Church brewing dot com. New Buffaloes Brewery pizzeria in a historic church. So give it a shot. Matty's gonna have his little trip report for us when he gets back.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, I can't. I can't wait to go. One thing I want to mention before we wrap up today, because I forgot to do it on DBU and I. If I don't do it now, I'll never mention it to you. I watched a Netflix documentary over the weekend.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay.

[Matt Abaticola]

I watched. Was it Saturday morning? Early Saturday morning. I was watching it. I think. Yes. There's a new one just came out last week about the Montreal Expos, and it's entitled who killed the Montreal Expos?

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay.

[Matt Abaticola]

It's fucking fantastic.

[Dan Bernstein]

Did it make you think of Gary from Evanston?

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh, God. The whole. The whole thing. The whole time I was thinking about.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yes.

[Matt Abaticola]

I mean, the whole. The whole time. It's really, really good. I totally recommend it for you to watch. You would really enjoy it and to see about Jeffrey Lauria and David Sampson and.

[Dan Bernstein]

I mean, if you want an answer to.

[Matt Abaticola]

I have an answer. I think I know Documentary maker. I can. I can tell you who did it. Well, forget it.

[Dan Bernstein]

I guess we won't make the documentary.

[Matt Abaticola]

Don't make it because your documentary answers your own question. Really good, though. Good stuff. And I just. I forgot how good that that 94 team was. And when. When the strike happened and the season ended, they were 74 and 40.

[Dan Bernstein]

It was going to be White Sox, Expos.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

That was your World Series, man.

[Matt Abaticola]

Was it good. So again, a recommendation there for you to. To watch that. Who killed the Montreal Expos? And it's on. It's on Netflix. You'll enjoy it.

[Dan Bernstein]

That's going to do it for forward progress. That was a lot today. There was. There was some stuff in there, and I do think it sort of sets up our that there was enough in that initial post game that I do think merits follow up, I really do, about the leaders, about what constitutes a good read or not. I think there's some digging in.

[Caleb Williams]

Yeah.

[Matt Abaticola]

For sure.

[Dan Bernstein]

That we've got to do on this and I look forward to doing that throughout the week. So thanks for joining us on Forward Progress. Make sure you're subscribed, make sure you know for the post games that you got alerts on all that stuff. And we'll be here all week. Talking Bears.

[Matt Abaticola]

Forward Progress, a Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312 Sports.