Caleb Williams does it again, but Bears lose in OT to the Rams

Summary

Forward Progress - A Chicago Bears Podcast

Episode: Caleb Williams does it again, but Bears lose in OT to the Rams
Hosts: Dan Bernstein & Matt Abbatacola
Date: January 19, 2026

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Episode Overview

This emotional and in-depth episode dissects the Chicago Bears’ overtime playoff loss to the Los Angeles Rams. Dan and Matt navigate the pain of another season ending, analyze moments from Caleb Williams’ standout rookie year, critique coaching and player performances (with a special focus on DJ Moore’s effort), and look forward to key offseason questions. Woven throughout are the duo's trademark mix of football analysis, Bears history, and relatable fan passion.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. NFL Coaching Carousel & League Context

Timestamps: 00:55 – 05:44

• Hot Topic: League-wide head coaching upheaval; 10 coaching vacancies (now down to 8 with recent hires).
  • "It's like a third of the league right now. Do we have 10 openings?" (Dan, 00:55)
  • John Harbaugh to New York, Kevin Stefanski to Atlanta.
• Buffalo’s Firing of McDermott: Reflects broader impatience with playoff underachievement.
  • “The Bills were 0-6 in overtime…they’re tired of losing in the playoffs.” (Matt, 02:14)
• Quick, wry observations about teams like the Falcons being perennially forgettable.

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2. Processing Bears’ Season & Caleb Williams’ Impact

Timestamps: 05:45 – 10:25

• End of Season Reflection:
  • “Now we go back and kind of look at each other and say what was all that?” (Dan, 05:45)
  • The loss was heartbreaking but “a whirlwind of entertainment.”
• Caleb Williams’ Spectacular Throws:
  • Hosts rattle off a list of “all-time Bears passes” made by Williams this year, arguing his throws are unprecedented in franchise history.
  • Memorable Quote: “The stuff that Caleb was doing—there aren’t many people in the history of the game that could have done what he did, if anybody else.” (Matt, 08:22)

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3. All-Time Bears Quarterback Discourse

Timestamps: 08:25 – 10:48

• The hosts struggle to name iconic throws from past quarterbacks (McMahon, Cutler, Grossman)—accentuating how rare Williams’ playmaking is.
  • “Even when the Bears were great, there aren’t a lot of Jim McMahon throws you go, ‘Oh my God, what did he do right there?’” (Dan, 08:31)
• Noted contrast: Prior QBs may have had effort or “moment” plays; Williams has talent and wow-factor.

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4. Game Aftermath: Coaching Decisions & Player Analysis

Timestamps: 11:03 – 16:19

• Ben Johnson (Offensive Coordinator) Press Conference:
  • Explains why Joe Tunney moved to left tackle—to neutralize Rams pass rusher Jared Verse.
  • “We thought Joe had a great anchor…he was going to be able to help us.” (Ben Johnson, 11:17)
• Jordan McFadden steps up unexpectedly, impresses both hosts.
• Critique of broadcast analysis: Chris Collinsworth called Darnell Wright the Bears’ best lineman—hosts argue it was All-Pro Joe Tunney.

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5. The Play That Ended the Bears’ Season: The Caleb-DJ Moore Misfire

Timestamps: 13:21 – 17:39

• Detailed breakdown of Caleb Williams’ overtime interception, focusing on WR DJ Moore’s route and effort.
• Caleb’s explanation: “Just a miscommunication...I tried to flatten him off under the safety, and he kept it vertical…” (Caleb Williams, 14:18)
• Hosts’ Frustration:
  • It’s not just miscommunication; Moore’s lack of effort (“gave up on the route”) cost a chance at a catch or to break up the INT.
  • “There is no assignment that calls for you to stop, right?” (Dan, 15:08)
  • “What you cannot excuse…is his effort.” (Matt, 15:06)
• In-depth discussion on how modern NFL tracking technology quantifies player effort, making loafs and lack of hustle irrefutable.

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6. On Athlete Effort and Tiredness Narratives

Timestamps: 18:00 – 22:27

• Hosts blast the media’s tendency to excuse poor effort as “being tired.”
  • “These are professional athletes playing for their lives… Fuck that. They don’t think about being tired.” (Matt, 19:20)
• Lively analogies to other sports (basketball, hockey) and personal experience—ultimately, there’s no excuse for “loafs” in big moments.
• Light-hearted digression about snacks during the game (taquitos, food talk becomes a recurring motif).

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7. Locker Room Reactions & Offseason Outlooks

Timestamps: 23:46 – 25:49; 25:49 – 28:33

• More postgame audio from Ben Johnson and Caleb Williams: Johnson stresses there’s “no momentum” carried over year to year, and he’s “not ready to talk next season yet.”
• Notable moment: Johnson credits “the men and women of this team” (support staff)—hosts highlight this inclusive language as rare and appreciated.
  • “I don't know that I've heard a coach say that before…” (Dan, 25:19)
• Caleb on offseason priorities: “Work on accuracy, work on my feet…and get with the receivers…so that we’re on the same page…” (Caleb Williams, 25:49)

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8. Most Anticipated Position Groups and Offseason Moves

Timestamps: 26:19 – 29:11

• Which position group are you most excited to see change before training camp?
  • Dan: Defensive line—needs at least two “impactful contributors.”
  • Matt: Wide receiver room—predicts significant turnover; doesn’t expect DJ Moore or Zacchaeus to return.
• Also discuss likely changes and needs at safety. Mixed opinions on keeping veteran Kevin Byard.

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9. Player Soundbites: Jaquan Brisker on Uncertain Future

Timestamps: 30:05 – 31:13

• Brisker reflects on the end, says: “We could hang our heads up high, but…the losing part is tough…We’ll see [about next year], but if not, you know, the grass is greener. God has my back.” (Brisker, 30:09)
• Hosts joke about “hanging your head up high” vs. “holding your head high.” Subtext: Brisker sounds ready to move on for a better offer.

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10. Snap Count & Player Performance Review

Timestamps: 31:37 – 35:03

• They review defensive and offensive snap counts; surprise that Jalen Johnson only played 85% (felt emotionally like less).
• Praise for Tyrique Stevenson and Nishan Wright’s performances against top WRs.
• Discuss Austin Booker’s fines, Colston Loveland’s concussion (“unfortunate timing as he was becoming the second-most important skill guy”), and recognize household player names for their effort.

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11. Caleb Williams & Other QBs: 4th Down Crunch-Time Stats

Timestamps: 35:03 – 37:57

• Matt researched 4th down conversion stats for all NFC Championship QBs plus Bo Nix and Drake Maye:
  • Caleb Williams: 9-for-19, 81 yds, 9 1st downs, 2 TD, 1 INT, 72.5 rating.
  • Matthew Stafford: 11-for-15, 156 yds, 3 TD, 1 INT, 118.3 rating.
  • Drake Maye: 12-for-14, 119 yds, 3 TD, 0 INT, 141.7 rating.
  • Hosts’ takeaway: Williams was clutch, but numbers can be compared skeptically; stats alone don’t define situational greatness.

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12. Bears Coaching Staff Futures, Matt Nagy, and Honors

Timestamps: 42:15 – 45:11

• Bears assistants (e.g., Eric Bieniemy) getting interview requests—viewed as positive for team’s reputation.
• Matt Nagy’s job search, redemption arc, and candid media moment (regarding his need to delegate more as a head coach).
• News: Joe Tunney (guard) and Kevin Byard (safety) named Pro Football Writers Association All-Pros. Drew Dahlman named to All-NFC Team.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Caleb Williams’ Unique Impact:

  • “You could, you know, there’s some Cutler highlights...but the stuff Caleb was doing—there aren’t many people in the history of the game...”
    • (Matt, 08:21 – 08:22)

• On DJ Moore’s Effort:

  • “There is no assignment that calls for you to stop, right?” (Dan, 15:08)
  • “What you cannot excuse…and you’ll never give me a good explanation for it, is his effort.” (Matt, 15:06)

• On Professional Athlete Effort:

  • “These are professional athletes playing for their lives... Fuck that. They don’t think about being tired.” (Matt, 19:20)

• On Postseason Transition:

  • “Next season’s next season...We’ll have to write a whole brand new story…you can’t take any shortcuts.” (Ben Johnson, 23:46)

• Brisker’s Raw Response on Free Agency:

  • “We will see. No, hopefully I am, but if not, you know, the grass is greener. No, God has my back.” (Jaquan Brisker, 30:26)

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Lighthearted Segments

• Food Tangents (22:27 – 25:19; 39:25 – 41:48):
  • Banter about taquitos and the location of air fryers at home.
  • Pizza philosophy: Cheese-only for NY slices, margarita for Neapolitan pies, occasional prosciutto topping; jokes about launching a food podcast.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Coaching Carousel & League Context: 00:55 – 05:44
• Season Reflection & Caleb’s Throws: 05:45 – 10:25
• All-Time Bears QB Debate: 08:25 – 10:48
• Coaching/Player Decisions: 11:03 – 16:19
• Williams-Moore Interception Analysis: 13:21 – 17:39
• Effort/Tiredness Rants: 18:00 – 22:27
• Locker Room & Offseason: 23:46 – 29:11
• Brisker on Free Agency: 30:05 – 31:13
• Snap Count & Player Review: 31:37 – 35:03
• 4th Down QB Stats: 35:03 – 37:57
• Staff Turnover, Nagy, Honors: 42:15 – 45:11
• Food & Pizza Banter: 39:25 – 41:48

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Tone & Language

• Candid, passionate, and sometimes profane—reflecting the intensity Bears fans feel after a playoff loss.
• Mix of sharp football insight, deadpan jokes, and relatable frustration.

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For Listeners Who Missed It

This episode captures the agony and reflection that comes with another Bears season ending in heartbreak. Dan and Matt not only work through the most painful moments of the loss—especially the Williams-to-Moore miscue—but also situate it within the broader narrative of Bears history and hope. There’s a critical, sometimes irreverent look at coaching, player accountability, and what comes next, all seasoned with a warm side of food banter and the optimism (or skepticism) that keeps Chicago football fandom alive.

Transcript

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[B]

There are 10 openings.

[C]

Well, there were.

[B]

There were. There were 10. Yes, there were 10 because John Harbaugh is now the king in New York.

[C]

And Stefanski, Kevin Stefanski is now in Atlanta.

[B]

Atlanta. So there's eight left open, I believe.

[C]

Amazing with all this and for that sort of tectonic news to hit that, you know, it was incredible to me that before that Buffalo game started and my cousin asked me because isn't this the 10th year for McDermott? I'm like, no, there's no way. There's no way. And yeah, it's like nine seasons that we talk about going by in a blink and I guess they're tired of losing in the playoffs.

[B]

Yeah, I mentioned that after the game was over that his ninth season and then the fact that the Rams or the rams, the bills were.06 in overtime during that stretch and just not winning those big games or those close games just kind of put it out there as if, you know, I wonder if, I wonder if they would. And they sure enough did today. So announced that Sean McDermott fired from the Buffalo Bills head coaching job. So that would make the as we just mentioned the eighth opening as the two were filled. Were you surprised that Stefanski went to Atlanta?

[C]

I guess partly, yes, but when the owner is as active as he is and Arthur Blank. And then you can say his last name.

[B]

It's okay. Don't. You can swear him.

[C]

When he.

[B]

What's his name? Arthur Blank.

[C]

Arthur.

[B]

Just say it. It's okay. You can say it.

[C]

Arthur Blank.

[B]

Tell him your name.

[C]

Sent you. Arthur Blank. It's just fill in your own name that I, I guess when, when the owner can come to find out his.

[B]

Real name is Arthur is. His real name is Arthur. The NFL is always like, arthur Blank.

[C]

What happened? Well, it was Moskowitz, but they changed it at Ellis Island.

[B]

It's a blank.

[C]

They arrived there at Ellis Island.

[B]

Oh, so he didn't write anything? Oh, no, no, no. He just, he. He wrote something. He wrote blank.

[C]

Yeah. What's your, what's your name? I can't spell that. You're just blank. You know, it might. That's not actually so far fetched. Some of the stories about stuff like that.

[B]

Yeah, it's actually, it's not.

[D]

That's.

[B]

That's true.

[C]

But it is, but there is, there is like, you know, there's, there's, there's like Blankfield and Blankstein and Blake. So it's probably. It comes. Goes back to whatever it is, German or Russian, like that. But yeah, I hit my finger on the microphone. Ow. Was loud and it hurt. It's like I'm like Caleb Williams. Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna be doing this the entire podcast. I'm gonna just be going like this and then the cameras are gonna find it and they're gonna wonder if I'm healthy.

[B]

All right, so you were saying. Oh, about Stefanski and about Arthur.

[C]

When. Look, we're going to pay you this. You've got my support. You've got this amount of control. Here's what we're doing. It. It. It must be a pretty nice number, I would think. And to know that you've got at least that sort of guaranteed support. Who knows? I don't know what he was promised and I don't know what he's looking for in a job, so I'm not going to judge him.

[B]

Yeah, no, I just. I was kind of surprised by that. I. I thought he'd go somewhere different. I don't know. I, I didn't see Atlanta on the, on the target landing for.

[C]

I never think about them.

[B]

I don't either.

[C]

Ever.

[B]

I really don't. Even. Even when they're good. I don't think about them.

[C]

It's. Blame me. I don't know.

[B]

The.

[C]

The Falcons.

[B]

I think it's that division. I think it's the division, Dan. And the only time I ever paid attention to it was when Brady won a Super Bowl. The Buccaneers.

[C]

Right. Yeah. No, there's something about the Falcons that have always been an afterthought for me.

[B]

Okay. It's Falcons, Buccaneers, Carolina. Right.

[C]

And who else in the NFC South? Saints.

[B]

Oh yeah. Saints.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

The ain't.

[C]

That's right. Okay. Right.

[B]

Oh boy.

[C]

Nicely done.

[B]

That whole division.

[C]

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Do we really need them?

[B]

Anybody care?

[C]

Yeah. No, I don't think so. Probably not. This is a. It's a bittersweet day. As we talked about already on dbu, just that the Bears are done and now we go back and kind of look at each other and say what was all that? What. What exactly was all that other than just a. A whirlwind of entertainment.

[B]

I mean, the season. Yeah, yeah, I know.

[C]

The whole thing.

[B]

And.

[C]

And all just. I was looking at a list that somebody sent me trying to rank the Caleb throws and just not only where they were this year, but where they would fit in like all time Bears passes. If you think about it, the. Let's just say what we know. We've got a short list of the Comet touchdown yesterday.

[B]

Yep. The 4th and 8 to Rome.

[C]

There's the Jade Walker tying touchdown in week 16. The back of the end zone one. There's the D.J. moore overtime game winner in that game. Or the D.J. moore touchdown against the Browns.

[B]

Okay, that's five. Don't forget. I think wasn't it the Minnesota game where there was that on the right on the sideline, that bullet to Roma Dunes a rolling.

[C]

Yeah, it was the first. First drive. Right.

[B]

First drive. So that's seven.

[C]

And then there was the game winner to Loveland, which was more a Loveland.

[B]

Play than it was.

[C]

It was about the throw. But if we're not talking about the. The entire play, just. Just the throw itself. It's amazing that if you're talking about like the history of the Bears, the. I mean how many other throws. Are there any Jay Cutler throws that you remember? Are there anything we should. This might be a topic for another time. But I mean like off the top of your head, there were a couple great, you know, Rex Grossman passes, you know, bombs to Bernard Berrian or the touchdown to Mohsin Muhammad. I remember the Brian Greasy throw to Musin Muhammad at Philadelphia that caused them to have to you know, Ron Turner got mad and Brian Greasy had to come out and apologize for saying that he called the play. But that's why I remember it.

[B]

Yeah, but here's the thing, though. While those were great throws and you could, you know, there's some Cutler highlights as well, you mentioned Grossman, and those are our football plays that football quarterbacks make. You know what I mean?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like the stuff that Caleb was doing. There aren't many people in the history of the game in that position that could have done what he did, if anybody else. Yeah.

[C]

Even when the Bears were great, there aren't a lot of Jim McMahon throws. You go, oh, my God, what did he do right there? Even like the McKinnon touchdown. Sure.

[B]

Or.

[C]

Or sure that when he came off the bench from the injury at Minnesota on the Thursday nighter.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, that was more about the story of him coming into the game. It wasn't. Holy crap, look at that throw. So there really weren't those that we talked about in the same way. And even like Avellini to Greg Latta in 77 to beat the Chiefs.

[B]

Yeah. Because even if you look at some of the McMahon throws, they're not throws that Steve Fuller or Mike Tomczak couldn't have made.

[C]

Fuller and Tom's act are pretty bad. Well, times I was awful.

[B]

Yeah, but still, I mean, they could throw a fucking football. We're not talking about anything extraordinary. They could. They won games. Come on.

[C]

Well, different things.

[B]

I know, but still. But still, it wasn't like they were completely incompetent with no arm. Well, then you think Jim McMahon was that special? Because. I don't know. I mean, I think. I don't think any of them. I think the gap isn't that great. That's all I'm saying.

[C]

No, it's probably not, but I don't. I really don't think any of them were that good. That was part of the problem. Even Flutie, or if they had half.

[B]

A quarterback from like 1982 to 1989.

[C]

Even like the Jim Harbaugh throws I remember, was it 13 Wing Jet was the one that they threw to Tom Waddle a couple times to win games late.

[B]

But with Harbaugh, it's durability and his heart and his effort. You don't remember him as a first? No.

[C]

And I remember the throw to Cap Bosom at the Jets Monday night game when. When Boso came up with all the half the turf in his helmet. I remember that more than I remember the actual throw.

[B]

I loved seeing that happen last night to Matthew Stafford after Dom Rob got him?

[C]

Yeah, I did.

[B]

And he picked himself up and there was all the. All the turf stuck in his helmet, in the face mask. I love seeing that.

[C]

I think Dom Rob may have earned another contract of some kind.

[B]

He may have because he. The last. Last what, four or five, six weeks of the season.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

He played. Played pretty well coming off that. That concussion.

[C]

So, yeah, I. We start looking and we will do that throughout this week and next week, obviously, when we lose, we have a lot of time to talk about the free agents and what they're going to do and the decisions they have to make. I think our guy Big Bill may be elsewhere next year, but I still think it's worth it to go back and hear some of what was said in. In the wake of season's end last night.

[B]

You want to start with Ben Johnson? You want to hear Caleb Williams first?

[C]

I want to start with your editorial judgment leading the way.

[B]

All right. This is Ben Johnson, and he was asked about the decision to move Tuney to left tackle.

[D]

Yeah. I mean, a big part of that was predicated on. You get going in the tape and you see a guy like Verse on their side and the type of rusher that he is, he's very powerful. He's very violent. He was that way coming out of college, and that's translated to the NFL. And it showed up all over the tape where he's taken tackles and just back on the quarterback slap. And we wanted to. We just thought Joe had a great anchor and he was going to be able to help us in that regard. And so credit to him, of course, he's done it and he's willing to do whatever, whatever is necessary to help the team win.

[C]

So.

[D]

Got a great group like that. Yep. Thank you.

[B]

Yeah. I was disappointed that he wasn't asked or didn't talk about Jordan McFadden's play.

[C]

Which the guy just kind of came out of nowhere.

[B]

Right.

[C]

I thought it was going to be Luke Newman.

[B]

Yeah, I thought I would. I never thought I would say I was disappointed not to hear about Jordan McFadden, but I thought he played well. And as far as Joe idea who he was, I didn't. It's funny, the game was starting and both Jackson and Hank were on the couch next to me. And simultaneously, who the hell is Jordan McFadden? Yep. And I was like, joined the club. He's a guy and he's playing. Yeah. And then when I saw his background drafted by the Chargers two years ago and they've had nothing but offensive line issues. And I was like, oh, this isn't good. Why would they dump a guy they draft? And then their old line is injuries and issues. But anyway, I thought Joe Tunney, obviously, and it would not surprise at all, played great at left tackle. There was one play that stands out where he. He missed an assignment, but that was about. And I thought that was. He did a great job like Ben Johnson said. One thing I will take up arms for on Chris Collinsworth, calling Darnell Wright the best player on the offensive line. He may be the most athletic, but he's not the best player on the O line.

[C]

He's a very good player, very great player.

[B]

But the best player in your old line was your all pro guard that went to left tackle, Chris. So maybe keep that in mind. Here's Ben Johnson. He was asked about the Caleb Williams interception that ended the game.

[D]

No, I'll have to see it. I had a. I stand behind the defense a little bit. So I did see space, I saw grass and then the guy, you know, I didn't see that defender from my perspective. And so I'll have to. I'll have to see it. But I did think as the play was going, I was like, oh, crap, we got something. But great play by that player.

[C]

Since we left you last night. Yes, sir. I have no further guidance on DJ Moore's effort. The assignment, the communication that I thought by now we would know something. But every. Everybody's saying, I got to see it, I got to watch it. I'm not sure it sounds like the way Caleb describes it. There may have been a miscommunication, but it still doesn't excuse not running hard.

[B]

So the explanation that Caleb gave and actually I'll just. I'll play that right now. So we just. Okay, this is Caleb on the interception.

[E]

But from in the moment, you know, saw the. Saw the front side safety down the front side of the concept, you know, ended up getting hemmed up a little bit and so moved on and had DJ Going over top over all of it just to miscommunication between him. And I tried to flatten him off under the safety and he kept it vertical from, you know, what I saw on, you know, obviously in the moment.

[B]

All right, so I want an explanation. I got an explanation from the quarterback. I don't think he's sticking up or covering for DJ Moore. There was a miscommunication. DJ Was. He was taking the route deeper where Caleb flattened it off. I saw that again, watched again. That makes sense. But what you cannot excuse and you'll never give me a good explanation for it, is his effort.

[C]

Stop.

[B]

Yep, yep.

[C]

Like whatever the assignment is, there is no assignment that calls for you to stop, right?

[B]

Or to slow down or to pick up your body and just get straight up and down and just kind of jog to the motion. So there was a miscommunication had he continued going flat in his full speed. He catches that ball. If he goes deeper in the route and continues running his full speed like he, like he did as far as going deeper in the route, he can actually contend the interception by curl. But because he gave up on the route, neither one of those things are possible of happening. There was no way to catch the ball, there was no way to become defender without running full speed and he slowed down and gave up on the route, period.

[C]

And what I hope is understood is that the camera, the tracking software and the cameras, as you know by looking at next gen stats, right, that the actual speed at which you are moving in a football game now, in an NFL game is not subjective. It's not where we're looking at tape and we're going to say, all right, well it looks like he slowed down here. What the teams have compiled are for each player exactly how fast you are expected to be running. When a scout said, you know, accelerates well out of his brakes, it used to just be that's a scouting opinion. And now they can go and actually you're right. You see, like he's up to this speed within this time over this space and there's no subjectivity where you can go and say, hey, look, D.J. we've run this play in practice X number of times. This is your expected speed at this point. This is your expected speed at this point. This is the standard to which we hold a player. And especially on, on the backside of a play when you're not expecting to get the ball right and you've got to sell it and you'll, and you'll get a loaf. However a team wants to, whatever they want to call it, somebody in your positional meeting is going to say the reason the safety is still too close to the intended target is you didn't run hard enough on the backside. You didn't run hard enough to pull this guy away. All of these route concepts need that. And it was somewhere, some coach in that building right now can tell you exactly what went wrong. We don't know yet. Caleb didn't really tell you. Ben Johnson didn't really tell us. We'll find out. At some point somebody is going to explain what went wrong there, right?

[B]

And even to your point that if they're not saying, hey, your expected speed at this point of the route or out of your break or here is supposed to be here, even if they don't do that to that detail, they can say, all right, you were running at this speed and then as you broke and you were running towards the point of target, your speed slowed down to this. Why?

[C]

Mm.

[B]

And make him answer the question. You know, and it's because, because it's clear to see, dude, you don't, you don't have to see a measured speed to see that his body gave up on the route, period. Mm. And again, without running the route at the speed he's required or expected to run, he, he's not able to be defender nor able to make a catch depending on you take out the miscommunication. And if he, if he runs that underneath route like Caleb expected, he catches that ball and the Bears probably kick a field goal and they win the game. If he runs the route and continues his speed in a deeper route, he's able to contend at least what curl does where he is uninhibited in making a diving play for a ball that, that ends the Bear season. It's just unacceptable. Whatever it is. Miscommunication happens. Lack of effort should never happen. And I was, I was so tired too, Dan. And I screamed at the TV about this too because they kept talking about effort and how tired these guys are. And it's the fourth quarter and they're so tired and it's overtime. And I heard it in the Patriots game too. It's like, well, they had the bye week and that's why the bye week is going to give them more energy. Fuck that, man. These are professional athletes playing for their lives. Not literally, but they're playing for their, their season lives. Right here. You go in and ask any one of those guys if they're tired.

[C]

I understand.

[B]

I'm too tired. I can't, I can't play. I'm too tired. Fuck that. They don't think about being tired.

[C]

No. There's a difference between if you're, if you're going slow because you're hurt.

[B]

Right.

[C]

That's different thing.

[B]

And I will say effort is never acceptable.

[C]

There are times I have seen it before in a multi overtime basketball game that is using a little different energy system. And I have certainly seen it in playoff hockey where you get into these ridiculous multi overtime playoff hockey games where they're shift after shift, after shift. And you can see tired legs and just know it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

In football, I can see somebody get bruised and battered and beaten down with the people that play heavy snaps. But as far as the actual cardiovascular conditioning, come on.

[B]

I don't buy it. Because, because it's not. And you, and you have more time between plays where you're not being active and running than you do during the length of an actual play itself. It's, you're talking about seconds compared to well over a minute, sometimes minutes at a time. And how many times does he run off the field and go get on the sideline? Which is fine. There's a rotation for it. But I don't want to hear about guys are tired. A guy's never going to say, I was just too tired to compete in the fourth quarter. I was too tired to compete in overtime. I mean, you could be a weekend warrior playing like pick up basketball. You're not going to, you know, jump out after three games, be like, I just, I can't keep going, guys. I'm too tight. No, you're fucking, you're competitive. You keep going. I don't want to hear that. I was so tired of hearing it last night.

[C]

See, you were tired. You just said you were tired of hearing.

[B]

I was tired of hearing it. I was physically so tired.

[C]

No, no, you're, you, you're a hypocrite. No, I was, you're tired of hearing it.

[B]

I was able to keep complaining about it though, Dan. That's the difference. I had the energy to complain. You dug down ketos, you dug down.

[C]

Deep and found that extra reserve of energy. You didn't know you had to keep complaining to be there when you're needed.

[B]

It was my taquitos and my green salsa. That's what got me over the edge.

[C]

You made taquitos like your own, like from scratch?

[B]

Oh, no. The frozen Jose Olay brand Jose Olay taquitos make beef taquitos and then there's a little mini tacos. Oh, so good.

[C]

What's the difference between a mini taco and a taquito other than shape?

[B]

Well, a mini taco is like a mini taco and then a taquito is like a larger flour tortilla that's filled and then rolled.

[C]

Okay, so it's shape.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, everything's the same ingredients. Always the same stuff. It's all different shapes. Do you air fry Taco Bell is.

[C]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

No, the, the taquitos. I can't wait long enough. So I, I, I I microwave those and then the, the mini tacos, I put those in the, in the oven.

[C]

Okay. But that's what an air fryer is for. I thought. It's just perfect.

[B]

I know, but the air fryer's in the basement and I had to. I would have to come down the stairs again. I was too tired at that point.

[C]

The air fryer's in the basement and not in the kitchen.

[B]

Yeah. I don't leave it on the kitchen counter because it takes up too much space and it's too big for a cabinet.

[C]

Yeah. I use the air fryer. I have to unplug Beth's Nespresso. And if I. And if I go to bed before I remember to switch them back out, I catch hell.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah. And I leave it down here. It says, look here, I'll show you because I got a second. There's like a second kitchen down here.

[C]

I'll show you. See?

[D]

Wow.

[B]

And so that's where. So they do air fryer and a second microwave.

[C]

Yeah, you could rent that out.

[B]

Yeah, I do. To my 10 year old stepson.

[C]

That looks like a nice place to live down there. That's just the basement.

[B]

Yeah, those are just a few of the pictures, the sports pictures on the fridge.

[C]

Very cool.

[B]

Yeah. So that's where my air fryer is right there.

[C]

I get it.

[B]

Come all the way down the stairs to get it and I just wasn't in the mood.

[C]

Wow, that's a great place. If you ever are in the doghouse and you got to sleep in the basement. Okay.

[B]

Oh, that never happens, buddy. We resolve all our conflicts by talking through them like mature adults.

[C]

Yeah, but still, that's not bad. Or if you ever get kicked out for snoring.

[B]

No, I just get nudged once in a while. But sometimes she sleeps really well, so I don't really generally wake her up.

[C]

Yeah, well, sometimes if it's bad, she's like, you know what it's like kicking me out of the Face off circle. And they're like, you know, get out of here.

[B]

You gotta go. All right, all right, here, one more on. This is Ben Johnson talking about.

[D]

About next year, Next season's next season. I mean, it's. It's a whole different group. It's a whole different chapter. It's, you know, we'll have to write a whole brand new story. And so that's the thing about this is you put in all this work and you sacrifice and you trust the people around you and, you know, you can't take any shortcuts. So it's. I wish I could say that this is momentum from year one. We'll take it. It doesn't work that way. It doesn't work that way. And I honestly, I don't even want to talk about next year yet. There'll be a time and a place for it, but we're still hurting. We had a great opportunity here this year to. To make a name for ourselves, and I'm proud that we were able to get to this point and still disappointed that we fell short.

[C]

Good for him. That's well said. That's well said. Because I also think part of that is to give ownership and agency to everybody on this team. And if he were to just say, well, we'll do this and we'll do that, and we know that he's in charge of the Bears. And I do think that there's a respect level for everybody involved in a given team and in a given season. And I think there was something else that he said that caught my ear that he didn't. He said, the men and women of this team.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I don't know that I've heard a coach say that before or that I've noted a coach say that before because of the number of people they have who are working in that building and on the sidelines. And I was just glad that he did that. It was.

[B]

Yeah. He frequently mentioned. Mentions the coaching staff and the support staff in his comments. He's talked about the support staff multiple times in his times meeting with the media. All right, here's Caleb Williams. Couple more from Caleb. Just about like, you know, what now after this game. Yeah.

[E]

Got to go and, you know, watch some film and, you know, talk to coach. And then from there it's just work on accuracy, work on my feet. And off season it's. It's get with the receivers and work with them and things like that throughout the offseason so that, you know, we're on the same page. We're, you know, we're, you know, starting off hot, you know, for training Campbell, tas and then. And then going into next season.

[B]

Let me ask you this. And we don't need to go any deeper than just the position group. Which one position group are you most excited to see at the start of next season's training camp? And I asked that in regards of how it's going to look different. Oh.

[C]

Well, how hopeful can I be that it will.

[B]

As hopeful as you want to be.

[C]

Defensive line.

[B]

Okay. That is when I thought about that. That is the first thing that came to my mind, but it's not what I'm most excited to see. What I'm most excited to see is the wide receiver room. So I'm excited to see how that's going to develop and change going in the next season.

[C]

Do you think DJ Moore is going to be here?

[B]

I don't. I don't think DJ Moore will be here. I don't think Zacchaeus will be here and I'm curious to see what they do with the return game and the fate of duvernay as well.

[C]

Well, the reason I said defensive line is.

[B]

Well, I mean that, that, that makes the most amount of sense. Yes.

[C]

Even with Odengbo scheduled to come back. I think they need an edge and they need a tackle. Maybe Shemar Turner comes back and ends up being the guy that they think is enough to to. I think Andrew Billings is going to be gone, but I think that they need an impactfully two impactful contributors at the very least contributors in their defensive line rotation and at best two impactful starters.

[B]

Yeah, I will not disagree with that at all. Will not disagree. And I was really surprised my thinking through it that I was just most excited about the wide receiver room because I think there's going to be the most amount of change right there.

[C]

I think safety's too. They got to decide briskers a free agent and Bayard is going to be 32, 3, 3 or 4 even. Like there's decisions to be made there and I generally don't worry about turn its safety. Yeah, I think that's a place where you can find competence on the market if you want and. Or develop it. But.

[B]

But I, you know, I don't know. Is. Is. Is his contract up? Is that what it is with Bayard or. No, he's still under contract because I'm not, I'm not at all concerned with Kevin Byard being here next year as far as his durability, his leadership, his. His performance and productivity on the field. I'm not saying that he's going to match that next year and lead the NFL in interceptions, but I have no issues or qualms with. With the way he played at all this year. And I didn't see a drop off of. No, matter of fact I was. I was pleasantly surprised with his effort in his production this year. Didn't expect that at all.

[C]

Giordano's is turning the page to another unforgettable Chicago moment with the Bears maybe not ending and Chicago Football not ending the way we wanted it this season. So Giordano's is now celebrating Derrick Rose's jersey retirement. A homegrown legend, a Chicago icon, Giordano's will be celebrating with us as the Bulls honor one of the greatest to ever wear the jersey. They're calling it the MV Pizza. And the new pie is a Giordano's salute to the youngest MVP in NBA history. One of the city's most influential sports figures. The MV Pizza celebrates the Chicago native's hefty career with the Bulls by stacking two hefty layers of Giordano's signature pepperoni and topping it all off with a drizzle of homemade Calabrian hot honey. Order yours [e-mail] all right, one final cut for you.

[B]

And this is from the aforementioned Jaquan Brisker.

[F]

Tried to get the number one seed, end up being number two seed. Got a couple home games here. Like you said, no one expected us to be here, but we did. And. And, you know, we could hang our heads up high, but, you know, the losing part is tough, and, you know, obviously the splitting part is going to be tough.

[B]

So what's next for you? You going to be here?

[F]

We will see. No, hopefully I am, but if not, you know, the grass is greener. No, God has my back.

[C]

I don't tell Nate Hobbs, but.

[B]

Well, first of all, they're going to hang their heads up high.

[C]

You keep your head. You hold your head high.

[B]

No, you hang your head high.

[C]

You hang your head low.

[B]

Low.

[C]

You hold your head high. Right.

[B]

But he's gonna hang his head high, and then he'll be here next year. The grass is greener. So I would. I would say, just by saying that alone, he's not going to be here if he thinks the grass is greener.

[C]

It was kind of gray. Yeah, the grass is greener. White.

[B]

What about you? You're going to be here.

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

The grass is greener. God's got his back, so he's good.

[C]

All right. Well, I mean, it sounds like. I know he told people that he wants to be here, but if I hope someone offers him more money, he will want to be somewhere else. And I understand money is greener for sure, but he's got a.

[B]

The.

[C]

The recency effect of his play in the last game I think resonates well for him. People will remember him playing hard and tough throughout that entire game.

[B]

Oh, you know, I forgot to ask you earlier, before we started the snap, did you see snap counts anywhere?

[C]

I haven't yet. I wanted to look at Jalen Johnson.

[B]

Yeah. Because he wasn't out there a whole ton.

[C]

Nope.

[B]

And Tyreek Stevenson sure was out there and he made himself very evident and clear on the screen making plays. I thought Nishan Wright actually had a pretty good game against Devonte Adams for most of the game. They just. They did really well. The defense did really well in that game. That was just a really well played. I mean, we do have four sacks in the game as well, too, but. Yeah, I'm curious to see the. The snap count.

[C]

I've got it. I've had snap counts. All right, Bears.

[B]

Give it to me.

[C]

Counts. I. Hey, give it to me, Nate. Jalen Johnson was with 66 snaps. He played 85% of the snaps. Really? Yeah. I agree with you that it seemed to be far fewer. The defensive players have played all 78. 100% were Brisker Edmonds and Byard Booker was at 88%. Nishan Wright, Jalen Johnson at 85%. Grady Jarrett 83, Montez Sweat 82, DeMarco Jackson 69%, Noise and Kyler Gordon 67. Then Dexter 63, Gardner Johnson 60, Billings only 38. Tyreek Stevenson 31, Robinson 27, Chris Williams, who's always in the mix a little bit, played 10%. Amen, Obama 9%. And Elijah Hicks had one snap as a defensive back. I have offensive snaps if you're interested. As well.

[B]

Austin Booker did not do much of anything in this game. No.

[C]

And did you see. Did you see he took a big rip to that fine that he got for the helmet to helmet last week?

[B]

Oh, another one? Yeah, for sure.

[C]

Yeah. It was like a $50,000 rip.

[B]

Oh, yeah. It's like his third one.

[C]

Yeah. Some crazy number because of where he positions his helmet.

[B]

Not good.

[C]

The only number in the offensive side that jumps out at me is luther burden at 53%, which I don't know. He's by far their most electric playmaker.

[B]

Man. He can make people miss. It's.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Without a doubt to watch.

[C]

He is.

[B]

And then the concussion confirmed for Colson Loveland as well, which is, you know, which is just so unfortunate that. That. That's how.

[D]

That.

[B]

That. That's how a season ends. That game ends for him was awful.

[C]

Not just for him. The timing. The timing when they. They took him out just as his career arc was making him essentially the second most important skill position player after quarterback at the most important part of these games.

[B]

Yeah. And what was irritating, too, is that that first down and goal situation the Bears had where they couldn't get it in in four Tries. How many times did Chris Collinsworth mentioned Colston Loveland, Right? At least three.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

Well, keep an eye on Colson Loveland. Well, this is an area where you're going to utilize Colson Loveland. Nothing.

[C]

They kept pointing him out, you know, immediately before the play, or, you know, he's got a one on one here, he might get a free release here. And. No, maybe, maybe that was just rolled enough over there. Or they had a different idea of what the defenses were going to give him. But it shows you that missing him is. Is not great right now.

[B]

No. I took a look. Dan, I don't know if you'd be interested in this. I took a look at the four quarterbacks that were in the nfc, the final four, and then Drake May and Bo Nix and I just wanted to look at their numbers on fourth down. Okay. Because we know, we talked about the. The play of Caleb Williams. You know, he had some spectacular plays on fourth down. So I wanted to see was he really consistently that good on fourth down, what were the numbers? And then wanted to compare it to other guys. Caleb Williams was 9 for 19 in the season on 4th down for 81 yards, nine first downs, two touchdowns, one interception, and a rating of 72.5. All right, then I want to look at other NFC quarterbacks. Brock Purdy for the season was 3 for 6 for 24 yards, had zero touchdowns, zero interceptions, and a rating of 60.4. Okay. Sam Darnold was 4 for 6 on 4th down for 48 yards, a touchdown and interception and a rating of 91. All right. Matthew Stafford was 11 of 15 on 4th down for 156 yards, three touchdowns, one interception, AND a rating of 118.3.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

And then two other quarterbacks that have always been talked about with Caleb coming in the same draft class. Bo Nix. And fourth down was 7 of 12 for 136 yards, one touchdown, two interceptions, and a rating of 86.1. Okay. You ready for this?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Drake May.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

12 of 14, 119 yards, three touchdowns, zero interceptions, and a rating of 141.7. Damn. Yeah.

[C]

And he can put it there, I'll tell you that.

[B]

He sure can. Yeah. I wanted to look at it because I was curious to see if this was some kind of motivation or part of the decision process for Ben Johnson to be a little more aggressive on fourth down. And if that was the case, I wanted to see if, like, why didn't that play a part in last night? You know, you're gonna be more aggressive. Why why take the ball out of your playmaker's hands and yeah, not bad. Nine of 1981 yards, two touchdowns, interception rating of 72.5. But when you look at that in comparison, some other guys that were in the playoffs and in his draft class as well don't look all that great.

[C]

Bone Nick's pretty good too, although not bad. He has given way to my guy who is going to rise like the pho from the depths of NFL mediocrity and prove that my feelings when he came out in the draft of the NFL will eventually be found. Correct. I may, I may be long gone from this world, but at some point someone will say the legacy will be, you know, Bernstein wasn't all that wrong about what he thought about Jarrett Stidham.

[B]

Well, I'm going to put the the over under on his individual turnovers at.

[C]

One and a half for this week.

[B]

Yes, for this week at New England. Oh, and I'm going to take the over and put a 5.5figure number on it.

[C]

He's going to carve them up. He's going to carve them like a Christmas goose.

[B]

We'll see.

[C]

I have no idea. I just, I'm just, I'm, I'm very concerned because this is, this is all on me here. This is all. All of a sudden, the guy I thought was good and turned out to be bad is getting this chance and I've got to own whatever happens and I'm terrified. But we'll see. Maybe Friday's DBU picks. They might surprise you. Who knows? What I do know is that Giordano's is on a roll with its tribute pizzas. The pizza icon recently celebrated the legendary 80s Chicago football team with the pizza. And now they're honoring the legendary Derrick Rose on the occasion of his jersey retirement with a brand new limited edition pie. It is the MV Pizza and it's a Giordano salute to the youngest MVP in NBA history. One of the city's most influential figures in sports, the MV Pizza celebrates the Chicago native's hefty career with the Bulls by stacking two hefty layers of Giordano's signature pepperoni and topping it all off with a drizzle of homemade Calabrian hot honey. Order yours now at Giordano's.

[B]

Are you traditionally a pepperoni guy?

[C]

I don't.

[B]

You don't think you are in pizzas, are you? I mean, you don't like it, but.

[C]

No, I have different topping choices depending on exactly which pizza and what kind. What? I don't My pizza choices are linked to very specific desires and not like all we. No matter what pizza. These are my toppings.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I don't look at it that way. Like, if I'm in New York, if I'm in New York and I get a slice just cheese.

[B]

So I'm generally. And it doesn't matter where it comes from or what style of pizza, it's pepperoni. I just. I love pepperoni on pizza. But I will say that if. Not, if. When I get to enjoy a slice of Norm's Pizzeria again in Brooklyn, I'm. It'll be cheese only. My. My first time there, I got a slice of pepperoni and cheese together, and it was great. Pepperoni was great. But it's just. There's something about the best New York style pizza that all you need is just cheese. That's what it should be.

[C]

Cheese and slightly well done. I like them to take it off of the pie that's in front of him behind the glass. They turn around, they open the thing, they put the slices in there and just leave them. Not totally well done, but just leave them a little bit longer, just a little longer than you otherwise might.

[B]

That's how Jack. Jack likes his pizza's a little more well done. But yeah, I mean, for me, that a good New York slice is just cheese. And then for a real Neapolitan pizza, like, you know, at beer, church, or, you know, when I'm back in Naples, it's just a margarita that's just. And there's. There's nothing to do other than that for me.

[C]

Yeah. If I'm doing true Italian style like that, I will do a margarita and occasionally, depending on the mood, I will ask to add a little prosciutto on there. Okay.

[B]

Oh, yeah. You do like prosciutto?

[C]

I do. I do. Like, like, because I like the saltiness of the prosciutto and I. But I don't want it cooked all the way through. I just kind of want it, like, wilted a little bit.

[B]

Yeah. You want to feel some heat on it? Yeah.

[C]

This show makes me hungry.

[B]

I know. Well, we. We deliberately talk food.

[C]

I know. We do. Because it's. It's something we both love.

[B]

People. People have asked us to do, like, just a food podcast. We might consider doing, like, once a week on Just Food.

[C]

I wouldn't mind.

[B]

Yeah, we could.

[C]

We could, I don't know, call it something we figured out.

[B]

I'm going to think about that because I think. I think people would like that. Where. Yeah. I think actually that's a good idea.

[C]

We could do guests, and I don't think we lack guests. I don't think we lack for sponsors.

[F]

No.

[C]

You know, if we do this right. Just a thought.

[B]

All right. Yeah, I'm gonna, let's, I'm gonna, I'm gonna think about that a little further. All right. What else you got for forward progress today?

[C]

Well, I just want to keep an eye, just to make sure that throughout this week, we're going to be hearing about Bears coaches who are getting interviews.

[B]

Elsewhere, because as we know right now, it's just Eric Bien, Amy, Eric B.

[C]

Enemy with an interview with the Chiefs as their offensive coordinator. And I'm really not that concerned. There might have been a time if I didn't have trust in, in the head coach and the defensive coordinator the way that I do at the moment. It's the kind of thing that might really worry me about losing a positional coach.

[D]

But.

[C]

You, obviously, when you're starting out a head coaching regime, you want to be a place where you know that you can get assistance, other jobs. It's part of what we were talking about being, being a cool place to be, being a desirable place to be. So I think you should root for, for some of these Bears to get bigger jobs, because it's a really good sign. It means your team is good. So we'll monitor that.

[B]

Did I, did something happen with Matt Nagy? Did I miss that?

[C]

He's being interviewed everywhere.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

He's been on some short lists.

[B]

Isn't he the oc?

[C]

Well, under Reed, I mean.

[B]

But is that his title?

[C]

I thought he had some elevated title like passing game coordinator, special assistant.

[B]

I thought he was the oc and it's like you're interviewing guys and he hasn't left yet.

[C]

So I, I, I don't know. Okay. I don't know.

[B]

I mean, maybe, maybe Nagy said, I'm leaving regardless, so who knows?

[C]

Could be. I mean, I, I wish him the best, and maybe he's learned from his experiences here and is ready to take the league by storm. I doubt it.

[B]

Speaking of that, have you, have you seen the interview he did where players from his first time around as a head coach I was with the Bears, were given like a survey and like, the, the responses were read back to him during this interview was just recently happened, like, hey, like, oh, yeah. And it was talking about his strengths and his weaknesses. It was really, it was really cool. It was really cool to see him being vulnerable and open up to it and, and like, one of the things was talking about delegating and how he didn't delegate enough. And then the reporter was like, you know, what's your response on that? He's like, yeah, absolutely. You know, it's just he was really, I think that the self awareness really came through and the reflection upon his first time.

[C]

Good for him.

[B]

Yeah. And I don't know if it'll translate into being more successful as a head coach. He had a nice start with the Bears, but, you know, I think it all hinges on the quarterback. But. Yeah, well, we'll see what happens with, with Matt Nagy. But I thought he was the OC and I just thought that was weird that they're interviewing a guy for someone who has that job and maybe it's a different title.

[C]

So I have a little note here from our guy, Kevin Fishbane, who says that the Pro Football Writers association has put out their All Pro team and there are two Bears who have made Pro Football Writers Association All Pro not Joe. Joe Tunney, Joe Tooney at guard, and.

[B]

Kevin Byard, as I say, Kevin Byard.

[C]

Might say at safety. So obviously both have also made the PFWA All NFC team, as did Drew Dahlman. Drew Dahlman named PFWA all nfc. So congratulations to him. And that's going to do it for this edition of Forward progress on 312 sports, brought to you by Giordano's Celebrating Chicago Sports moments big and small. And this week, the MV pizza can be yours to celebrate Derrick Rose's jersey retirement. Order yours now at Giordano's, where progress is stopped.

[B]

Forward Progress, a Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abaticola on 312 Sports.