← Forward Progress - A Chicago Bears Podcast
Forward Progress - A Chicago Bears Podcast
Carmen Vitali, FOX Sports Radio and Marquee Network
00:48:30
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- [00:02]
A
I mean, if you're a Bears fan.
- [00:04]
B
You'Re thinking forward progress. Come on.
- [00:14]
A
Forward Progress A Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abaticola on three one two Sports.
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B
We award you forward progress here on three one two Sports. This is a Chicago BE podcast and it is brought to you by Giordano's. It's playoff time, Chicago, and there's only one way to do game day right? Giordano's is celebrating the big game this weekend with their limited edition pizza. The pizza inspired by one of the most iconic teams in Chicago history. Order yours now@giordano's.com get the whole crew ready for Sunday and let's keep this run going. Chicago football, Chicago pride. Giordano's and you say, well, what, what makes the pizza the pizza? Well, if you dine in, it can be ordered 85 style. Whether you're doing deep dish, traditional thin crust or tavern style. It is topped with a Parmesan stenciled 85 in the bears uniform number font which makes it idealized for your Instagram photos and the like. We thank our friends with Giordano's and we welcome our guest. It is our friend Carmen Vitale of Fox Sports and Marquee Network on the socials at Carmi V, an expert in all things Bears and NFC North. Carmen, how are you?
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C
I'm great, guys. Thanks for having me again.
- [01:53]
A
Yeah, it's great to see you again. So how's things in the Bears front going?
- [01:59]
C
I keep thinking that they can't keep doing what they're doing. I kept thinking, oh, it's the playoffs now. They can't possibly dig themselves in a hole only to climb back out. Plus, it's against the packers and you can't. It's just too storybook. And they keep making me eat my words over and over and over again.
- [02:17]
B
Because you have such insight into the division writ larger. What has been the effect of not just the win for the Bears, but the loss for the Packers? Because truth be told, and I'm sensing this, I don't think I'm just projecting this, Bears fans are enjoying packers pain like it's the just nectar of the gods and just feeling for the how the shoe can be on the other foot for the first time in a long time for it to happen the way that it did and to see whatever's going on in Green Bay, whether it's uncertainty over their coach or infighting amongst their their players, some lingering bitterness. What are you seeing? What are you hearing about what that outcome meant.
- [03:13]
C
It's It's. I mean, look, Bears fans have had precious little to celebrate for most of my lifetime. You know, I watched the packers go from Brett Favre to Aaron Rodgers to Jordan Love, and you know, they're always in the playoff conversation, if not in the playoffs. They're, you know, they made a push this year. They made a very public push for the super bowl, and it didn't work. So I think even if Bears fans didn't have the head to head wins, I think that they would still try and have those bragging rights over the fact that packers fell short of their ultimate goal. I really, I'm happy for Bears fans, but it's, it's funny because packers fans have always been, at least in person, I should say, if you've ever gone to Green Bay, if you've ever been at Lambeau Field as an opposing fan or decked out an opposing team, regalia that people are really nice to you. People are super polite. Like, they offer you a beer. They're like, we hope you have a good time. We don't hope you win, but we hope you have a good time. Here's a beer. Send you on your way. Not really. Bears fans, Mo, regardless of who's coming in there or how good the team is. So I think this is probably to be expected. But hey, listen, this city is electric right now. It is on fire. We talked about like, you talk about storybook, kind of like script writing, you know, NFL script writers being in their bag. And I mean, I, I remember that 2003 NFC Championship game between these two teams and how it didn't go the Bears way, obviously. Jay Cutler, we don't have to go back into that injury and what happened there and whatever, but this is, you know, this came out the other side with some real stakes. And that's, that's exciting. So I'm not gonna yuck Bears fancy. I'm right now. And I do think that packers fans are feeling the heat and, and they're kind of miserable for the first time. They've been spoiled. I've said that for a very long time where they've just been spoiled. And it's not a bad thing. I mean, anybody would take that. But it's going to be very interesting to see how they kind of move forward from this.
- [05:09]
A
Yeah, I went to a game, it was Khalil Mac's first game with the Bears, and it was up there at Lambeau. And I was really, I was really surprised how pleasant and kind and polite the packers fans were. And I Mean, you know, I'm in my Bears stuff, and I was really, really. I didn't expect it at all. I was hesitant to wear Bear stuff to the game, but I was like.
- [05:28]
C
I gotta do that.
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A
And people were really, really kind. Was really. It was really interesting. I was caught off guard by it. And speaking of that, of that rivalry, so much has been made of Matt LaFleur, and he's not the first head coach of an NFL team to be caught on video yelling, fuck whatever team. I just saw a video earlier today of our old friend Brian Billick, who did it after a Titans game. And he's in the locker room and he demands all the cameras go off. And someone kept one on, and he's saying, they're fuck the Titans. And, you know, and the team goes crazy like, it's NFL football. Like, I don't understand whether it's for the cameras or it was genuine and the cameras just happened to be there. Ben Johnson did what he did. It's the NFL. It's the Bears, Packers. I'm really confused by all of the people being upset about what took place in an NFL locker room. What have you heard or seen or talked about with the team or players or staff after all this has happened?
- [06:28]
C
It's funny, I think people. It just shows you, like, you know, and I've been fortunate enough to be on the field to hear some stuff on the field. I've been fortunate enough to be in the locker room when cameras aren't in there yet. As being, like, being part of an organization, you get kind of some of those inside glances. And I'm like, people would be very, I think, legitimately shocked to hear half the stuff that gets said on these fields and in these locker rooms. But it is. I mean, it still is kind of an anomaly, especially in this day and age, to see a coach play into a R rivalry as much as Ben Johnson has. Because, listen, it's. It's a coaching brotherhood. It's a playing brotherhood. And with the. The hirings and the firings and trades and release it like guys getting released, you never know what team you're going to end up on, right? So it's really. And especially for a guy that's not from here, that didn't grow up with this rivalry. It's. It's. It's. It's cool to see someone buy into that. But I think that really starts with the Bears ownership. I mean, you think about what. What's the goal of this franchise? Win a Super bowl. Sure, that's 1A, that's every Super Bowl's goal, right? Well, 1B is what beat the Packers. That's what George McCaskey says. That's what the McCaskey family says. That's what George Hallis said that before that, like, this is the oldest rivalry in the league between two of the most storied franchises. I think it's the best rivalry in the form of North. Major North American sports. I won't speak to, you know, EPL and all of that over there because, yeah, that's. That's. That's a lot. But I. It's. It's cool to see. And I'm with you, Matt. Like, I don't. I don't think there's anything wrong with that at this stage, especially when you're trying to overhaul a culture for an entire franchise, for an entire fan base that has, again, had precious little to celebrate when it comes to this rivalry. I have kind of poked around a little bit, though, with guys that have coached with Matt or with Ben rather than been like, you know, he really does seem to hate Matt LaFleur. Why does he hate Matt LaFleur so much?
- [08:26]
B
Do you think he really does?
- [08:30]
C
Yeah, I do.
- [08:31]
B
Really? Okay. We argued about this. Well, now we discussed it. Yeah. Where Matt was saying that he thinks that maybe it's, what, it's 50, 50 or maybe the ratio is a little bit different. I don't know what to think if he is trying to show his own bosses that, yeah, watch me do this. Watch me re. Handle this. And it's kind of a wrestling bit, or if this is somehow coming from a real place and we just don't know why.
- [09:00]
C
So I wasn't able to get to the bottom of why, but I was able to confirm that he's not like. He's like, hated Matt LaFleur since he was in Detroit. So if you're gonna. If you're gonna carry that over, that means that there's something there. I don't know what it is precisely. But I also know that Ben is wired in a way where you look at all the greats, Right. And greats that we've even had here in Chicago, like Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant or Tiger woods or these guys that, like Tom Brady. Manufacturing motivation, manufacturing slights and this and that. Because that is what gets them up in the morning. Like, spite and pettiness is what gets Ben Johnson up in the morning. And I. My petty little heart couldn't love it more. But I really. I think it's come from. And my theory I think that it's really not based on anything. It's really based on, like, all right, he takes. Ben. Takes a lot of pride in his offensive system, the way that he's, like. He's kind of an indirect descendant of the Sean Payton tree through Dan Campbell, but, like, you can't really pin him to a coaching tree. Right. And I think that he kind of resents that half the league is essentially Sean McVeigh, Kyle Shanahan disciples, and that they are credited with, like, pushing offense forward. And they're the ones that get all of, like, you know, the praise and stuff of, like, well, they're the ones that are pushing the league forward, pushing the game forward. And he's like, hey, what about me? I do a lot of stuff, too. I do some really cool stuff, too, and I don't belong to that tree. So I don't. I don't know if he hates everyone in that tree at all, but I was able to confirm that he's not liked Matt LaFleur since he was in Detroit. So this.
- [10:39]
A
This is great then, because then he can. He can vanquish all his enemies in one playoff run. He can get rid of Matt LaFleur, he can end Sean McVay this weekend and get rid of Kyle Shanahan next weekend at Soldier Field. So it's perfect. And Ben can just go away and be the king of the offense for the NFL.
- [10:54]
C
I don't think anything would make him happier at this point. I mean, you've seen him during games. The man doesn't even crack a smile during the game. So he's steady Eddie. That's right. Like, never gets too high, never gets too low. He's a true quarterback, I guess, in that way.
- [11:07]
A
What do you. What do you make of the. All the Matt Laf I know he's got one year left in his contract. You know, you don't want to go into a lame duck season. I personally think. I thought that that would have been his last game coaching the Packers. Now I think it's a little too delayed for a firing to happen now, but really surprised that they didn't have something quicker, like, at the ready, even with the loss to get that contract talk and to just. Just to get rid of all that right away.
- [11:33]
C
Yeah, I. The packers can behave differently than any other team in the league because they don't have an owner right in the stereo or in the traditional sense. And so it allows them to kind of be a little bit more patient. It allows them to be, like, just a move In a way that teams may be used to. And now with the rising pressure of social media and this, that the other, and if you have an owner that feels that pressure, like you have to kind of be a little bit more trigger happy. It's not the Green Bay packers and they don't have to be like that. I do think it's a hard pill to swallow though, when you have back to back first round losses in the playoffs and then especially when you again so publicly went for a Super bowl this year, you fell short. You also kind of collapsed in an epic and historic way to your oldest rival. Like, how are you supposed to feel good about giving that guy an extension? But again, I just think that it's the also like, what are the alternatives? Because like if Matt LaFleur is on the market, you know, he becomes one of the most coveted coaches in this cycle. And I think, you know, you talked about looks like Harbaugh is going to the Giants now, but before, you know, early on it's like, well, maybe Harbaugh, like that's, that's, that's a dude you could get in here. But Harbaugh, we know, wants personnel control and Brian Gutenkoon has done nothing to like warrant being pushed out, to warrant being, you know, demoted in any way. So he was never going to get the, Harbaugh was never going to get that personnel control in Green Bay. So I really think that there's not a whole lot like there's not a better alternative really out there. And you really just kind of have to see if once Micah Parsons come back, comes back and if the Green Bay packers team can stay healthy, you know, give Matt LaFleur a couple more years. But I'll admit, guys, it doesn't feel, I can't imagine it feels good to packers fans. And the crash out would kind of support that online. If you guys are paying attention, Carmen.
- [13:30]
B
I'd love to get your perspective on something that I keep getting back to. That is a thematic question that I have about this season. That if somebody were sort of writing the book on the Bears here, to me what we're going through right now is another chapter in the idea of reason versus faith. That the age old question of faith versus reason, reason versus faith. On the one hand, here's Ben Johnson, who is a, he's a mad scientist. People don't call him the mad preacher or the mad shaman. He's a scientist. He has tools and things and truths about where players go and where they should be and arranging pieces in a way that. That makes logical sense. He's unfailingly logical. Caleb Williams is kind of not. And the season is not. The season is really about belief, about whatever's going on. They're gonna find a way to win. Josh Blackwell's gonna block that kick, or there's gonna be a face mask penalty, or somehow Caleb Williams gonna throw off the wrong foot and get it to Roma. Dunze. But because. And that's a space where I'm completely adrift, working in that space. But it's undeniable that there is clearly something happening in that regard that's gotta be managed. How can you just say, we believe, we believe, we believe, and yet say, listen, we've gotta get everything exact with every practice to make sure you're all in the right places. So they're opposed. In a way, they are.
- [15:16]
C
But I also think that there's. I don't think Ben Johnson gets enough credit for marrying the two the way that he does, because let's not forget, he came from Dan Campbell. He came from the ultimate, you know, franchise of belief or. Or staff of belief, because that's what, like, especially in that first year under Dan Campbell in Detroit, you know, they went 3:13 and 1, and it was like how like they. They were surviving on nothing but belief. And I was in that locker room after Ben Johnson took over, because that was my first year covering the division in 2022, and they were sitting at 1 in 6 and I was in that locker room and what struck me was the belief. And I was like, you guys went 313 and one last year. You're one in six right now. Really, like, we still believe in this. And they did. And I didn't give Ben enough credit for how much of that he was going to take with him to Chicago. And I think evidence of that belief and evidence of that, like, culture of belief, you know, he told us about it after the game against Green Bay on Saturday night when he told us in training camp, he showed his team, the 28 3, Patriots, Falcons, Super Bowl. He had Joe Tooney get up. He had Grady Jarrett get up. And again, like that. I think that's the logic part is, like, from their perspective, how they pulled that off, or in Grady Jarrett's case, like, what that felt like to.
- [16:41]
B
But that's interesting. No, but that, that. That's sort of rubber meeting the road there and saying there. There wasn't, you know, Zeus throwing a lightning bolt. Here's what we did, here's what actually happened in the game, and here's how we felt as we were doing it.
- [16:53]
C
Yes. And. But that also requires the belief that you can do it. So it's. I think it's giving a roadmap, but it's all. And it. And making sure that you're prepared so that when. What. What's the saying about luck is like, when.
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B
Or like, luck is the residue of design.
- [17:09]
C
Yes. Something like. Like all of those kind of cliches.
- [17:12]
B
But I think where preparation meets opportunity.
- [17:17]
C
That'S what luck is. Yeah. Like, I. I really think that Ben Johnson doesn't get enough credit for kind of the intangible part of all of this. Plus, it's easy to believe in a guy that comes in with a track record. And that was something I said very early on when he got hired, where I was like, listen, he can point to saying, I had the most potent off in the league last year. I took Jared Goff from this to that, and I did this, this and this. And you can. You can say, like, you can look back on that and you can say, yeah, that worked. So we should believe that it's going to work here, too, because we have the guy in charge that's going to do it. I think he just does a really good job of marrying the two. And Caleb Williams has always had the belief in himself, but that's what you want in a quarterback. I just wish that he had the belief that he could, you know, do the things he does in the fourth quarter and the first three quarters so we're not all so stressed out, you.
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A
Know, I'm glad you brought up that use of the super bowl footage with the Falcons and the Patriots, because when I heard that, I was fascinated by it.
- [18:15]
C
I really was so prescient. It was so prescient on Ben Johnson's.
- [18:19]
A
Part, and I couldn't understand why. Like, I wanted. If I could just sit and ask him one thing. I'd like to ask him that, because what was in his thinking that he said, you know what? In training camp, I'm going to show this. What did he recognize about his team or about the need to be resilient? And maybe he didn't see that they had resiliency. Like, what was his thinking? Because I would bet there's not another head coach that said, hey, in training camp, I'm going to show the super bowl where this team is down 28 to 3. Like, I want to know what his motivation was for. Really fascinates me how he works as a leader and as a head coach. And speaking of the head coach, one Thing that he talked about yesterday was the need for the run game to improve from what it's been the last few weeks. What, what did you see in that, in that packers game and what have you heard and learned since that game about the deficiency they've had in running the football and where they need to go to to be successful against the Rams?
- [19:16]
C
Yeah, I mean honestly, if you look at the last two or three weeks, the run pass splits have been more like 65, 70% pass versus and then which was a departure from what we had seen up until that point where it was either split completely down the middle or maybe the run even had the edge. And I think that's where Ben Johnson wants to live because the play action under center game is such an incredible like foundational piece of this offense and it only works if you stay committed to the run. I'm not even going to say that you need a successful run game and you need to be like having hitting certain marks. You just need to show that you are committed to the run. And that's kind of. They've deviated from that a little bit more. And I think a lot of that has to do with kind of feeling the urgency of having to come back. And obviously the passing game can be more efficient in that way when you're down multiple scores. But I also think that Ben Johnson earlier in the season at least had shown a willingness to continue running the ball even when they were down and it still worked out for them. So I think, you know, I, I don't know. I don't know that I can pinpoint or like we haven't really heard any specifics as far as like why they've kind of gone away from the run a little bit more. But you have as healthy as you're going to be. I know Ozzy Chapillo went out and now you're going to be either with Theo Benedict or Braxton Jones at that left tackle spot when you're talking about the offensive line. But they really excel on that interior even in run blocking. And that's kind of where you've seen some of these guys spring loose, whether it's Kyle Mangai or DeAndre Swift, you know, the getting those holes up the middle. So you just need to get back to that. I think if you're Ben Johnson, you just need to remember that you're committed to it regardless. And, and that's going to keep your offense pretty well rounded. That's going to keep, you know, the Rams, as much as they can be on there with that front seven on their heels.
- [21:02]
B
And the one thing that I wonder about the Ben Johnson mentality and it's going to take us time. It's going to take a much larger sample of his work or more time really sitting down with him to understand this is when something needs to improve. Like he's admitted in the last few games that the run has taken a dip. Does his mentality suggest where I've got to change things or make or be deceptive somehow less predictable? Show the defense something it hasn't seen? Or is his setting to say we need to execute what we do better are these the foot's gotta be in this place. The hand has got to be in this place. The timing has to be right where it's we're not gonna. We don't need to change anything. We have to do what we do better. I'm not judging. I'm not saying either one is right or wrong. But every coach has different tendencies when it comes to that kind of stubbornness and belief in the way you've got it set up versus the creativity of, okay, we'll just do something else.
- [22:08]
C
I think the answer is yes, and I'll tell you why. Because I think right now the answer is let's go back to the fundamentals. Let's make sure we're, we're very detailed. Because this offense right now, the main goal of it this season, because don't forget the Bears are ahead of schedule at this point when it comes to their success. The goal for this season was to install the basic foundational version of the offense. And it's not unlike what he did in Detroit, where if you look at the evolution of Detroit's offense from when he first took over as offensive coordinator to the last year that he was offensive coordinator, you started to see a lot more of that deception, a lot more of kind of like the trick plays and a lot more of the chess match of trying to stay two to three steps ahead of the opponent and setting them up weeks in advance, especially if they're a division team, this, that, the other. I don't think he's done a whole lot of that this year. This year has been relatively vanilla when you're talking about a Ben Johnson offense. So I think the default right now is probably to go back and make sure that everything is solid and all of the details, there's no detail being missed. But I think eventually, and I don't know if maybe the postseason and because again, you're ahead of schedule, maybe you're playing a Little freer. And maybe you feel like you have nothing to lose. Maybe for this game, you're like, all right, whatever. We're playing with house money at this point. Let's just. Let's just get weird. And I think that that could be a way to do it, too. But I think we're going to see more of the weird next year and the year following that. I think right now, the focus has been this entire season on just making sure that these guys have a very solid foundation to build upon, and then they'll get to building. Is what I've observed as someone who watched the evolution in Detroit very closely and now is looking at what's happening in Chicago.
- [23:59]
A
What have you observed outside of game time in the progression of Jalen Johnson getting back closer to the Jalen Johnson we all want to see?
- [24:10]
C
Yeah, he. He's been. I mean, he's been incredibly willing to talk. As soon as he got back, I remember. I think, what game was that? That he kept talking in the locker room and, like, more and more people kept going up to him, and he was like. He finally, like, pulled the PR guy aside, be like, Guys, I've talked for 20 minutes at this point. Can I be done, please? Because. But I think it was one of those things where, like, he was willing to. He wanted to. Because he wanted to get back in the swing of things. And so much of coming back from injury, especially a significant injury. Yeah, it's the physical side of things. You need to heal and all that, but you also need to trust yourself again. And that's hard. That's hard to do in a season. Like, in the middle of a season when you. You only have a week between games and you kind of. You don't know. Like, you have to. I remember talking to Aiden Hutchinson about this, actually, after he went through his ACL stuff where it was in spring camp, and he, like, took a fall and then he popped right back up, and, like, he's like, that's when it switched in my brain of, like, oh, I'm okay. I don't have to be worried about falling. I don't have to be like, I know how my body's going to react. My body is capable of. Of withstanding this. And I don't know if Jalen Johnson has had that kind of click yet, and maybe he has, because we have seen him kind of progress more and more, but it's just hard. I think. I think it's really. Really the mental side of things really needs to be talked about a little bit. More because anybody who has rehabbed an injury like that, you really don't, you don't look at your body the same way. And you need to make sure that you can still play in the way that you were used to playing, playing. And sometimes it just takes a while to trust that.
- [25:50]
B
As the coaching carousel turns, are you hearing anything about any Bears currently under contract that are going to be of interest on other staffs? I know the. Because with who's in the playoffs and who's out of the playoffs, the rules change every year for who you can talk to based on your title and whether or not it's a promotion and whether or not you're even eligible for some of these things. But I'm just wondering, are the Bears going to, going to buckle up and be prepared to lose some people?
- [26:22]
C
I mean, I think when you have a staff that's as experienced as this one, you inevitably have to kind of prep for that. I haven't heard anything specifically, and I think, you know, we'll, we'll know more when we figure out if guys that are, you know, offensive guys, are they going to get head coaching jobs? Are they going to be offensive coordinators? That obviously limits, if you're an offensive coordinator, that limits the guys that you can hire and who you're looking at hiring and stuff like that. Because when I look at this Bears coaching roster, I mean, you look at guys like Al Harris, who there's been a lot of credit and rightfully so, don't get me wrong. But like it's, he's not an under the radar coach. People know that, like Al Harris had a lot to do with the turnaround on this defense and just the culture in general. You look at guys like Antoine Randall, who was only able to come to Chicago because he was given the assistant head coaching title. So you're looking at. All right, is he. That. That's, you know, that's technically like a promotion. So he's obviously looking for offensive coordinator jobs at some point and who's. Or, or even head coaching jobs. He. I honestly think he's one of those guys that you could see being one of those guys that just makes the jump to head coach because he's the, he's the Dan Campbell type, he's the CEO head coach type and then just putting play callers underneath him. But I haven't heard anything specific. I think that that will kind of become clear when we know where guys are going and how, what hiring capacity they have. But I like, you look at guys like that, you look at Eric the enemy. I don't know. You know, Dennis Allen has gotten a couple of chances to be a head coach. So I think there's, you know, for now the Bears are safe. But let this defense really, you know, get going next year and you're probably in danger of losing him again too. Who knows?
- [28:10]
A
So knowing what you know of this LA Rams team and their season and of course being around the Bears for the entire year, we look at Sunday nights and it's around 8:30. The game's over. The Bears won. What will be the important keys to the Bears finding success this weekend?
- [28:27]
C
I always, when I, when I look at these games, I always try to kind of pick out one particular, at least one particular matchup that I'm looking at that I think will essentially decide inside the game. Okay. And when I look at what Sean McVeigh has been doing this year, you know, you talk about, we talked about it with Ben Johnson, how like Sean McVeigh is seen as this offensive tastemaker and he's evolving, you know, he's constantly evolving his scheme. And I think he's really taken up the sword for the tight ends this year. And that's evidenced by the fact that he is deploying a three tight end set that 13 personnel more than anybody conceivably ever has on a consistent basis. 38.5% of the Rams offense, offensive snaps come out of 13 and it's hard enough to find one good tight end. They have three. So, and, and the way that Sean McBay knows how to exploit the mismatches that tight ends present, most importantly when you put multiple on the field, because tight ends, after all, who do you even put on one? Do you put a linebacker on them? All right, well, linebacker might be too slow. Do you put safety on him? Well, six foot safety on a six foot five tight end, I'm going to take the tight end every single time. And then especially given how athletic some of these tight ends are and the fact that you don't know what they're going to do pre snap, that's the beauty of the tight end is like you have to wait if you're the defender to figure out, okay, are they releasing into a route? Are they part of the blocking scheme? Is it a run play? There's not like, sure, there's like guys that have individual tells, but there's no real tell as a defender to know what that tight end is supposed to do on that play. And so therefore you have to sit back and you have to watch and then you get to react, you don't just to get pin your ears back and go after him. So like Sean Bay has done an incredible job. Usually that's a package. That 13 personnel is a package you see at the goal line and you do see it at the goal line for the Rams, but you see it all over the field. And how the Bears decide to match up with that is going to be paramount to how they come out of this game. Matthew Stafford is obviously one of, if not the best quarterback, I think is the best processing quarterback. He knows exactly what he's looking at. He knows exactly the mismatches that his guys present and he can exploit them. He can get rid of the ball. I think he has 2.8 time to throw average, 2.8 second time to throw average this year. He gets the ball out incredibly fast and he just, he has complete control over that offense within what Sean McVay has envisioned. So how they deal with again that particular personnel grouping when the three tight ends are on the field, that is going to sway how productive this Rams offense can be and therefore how, how much the Bears need to score in order to beat them.
- [31:06]
B
It's interesting that you, it sounds like you might have listened to what we already talked about on Dan Bernstein Unfiltered earlier today because we were discussing the the Bears 13 personnel against the Rams 30 front and say that this A2 Gap 30 front is a different animal than what they're used to seeing for the most part. And the difference that you can forcing the linebacker level to continue to make decisions and flow, especially the outside zone run game and what that sets up for them. And obviously both teams can practice this and scout some of this stuff really, really well, but it becomes super interesting. I was talking also about with Ozzie Tripillo out, that means there's going to be tight end help on that side with Theo Benedet or maybe Braxton Jo, who knows who it's going to be. But what Johnson does is instead of wasting a hat over there, instead of just saying, well we got to commit this guy to chipping and to being an extra, that's a weapon for him. He will use that and say all right, you think he's going over there to help and just kind of being there and he squirts out somewhere or he just comes out of the trash on the other side of the field where it's just another place to start a guy for him.
- [32:29]
C
That's something I've talked about quite a bit when you look at just what the, what The Bears have again, in some of those goal line packages where you do put those three tight ends out there. But the beauty of having a guy like Colston Loveland is that he counts as a bigger body, but that man can catch like a receiver. He can run routes like a receiver. So you're not actually sacrificing exactly what you just said. Bernie is like, you don't have to sacrifice a hat in order to trot out that person that, that jumbo personnel to help out your offensive line to again kind of try to create those mismatches with whatever goal line defense you're going up against. And that's why I was, I've been so excited about Colston Loveland and like, I saw what Ben Johnson was able to do in Detroit again with guys like Sam Laporta or even Brock Wright. You know, he had multiple tight end sets out there all the time. But going and seeing him do it with Colston Loveland in his rookie season of all of all seasons and then still have a guy like Cole Comet too, I just, I had complete faith going into this. I know everybody was like, why did they get Tyler Warren? I'm like, whatever Ben Johnson thinks he needs, if he needs Colson leveling, I trust it. Like. And, and sure enough, that's what I've talked so much about that it's so funny because I'm just like, it's, it's such a fun way to do offense. And then I think this will come later. But I watched in Detroit him turn offensive linemen into weapons. I've heard, I've, you know, you had Dan Skipper going out for routes. You had Penny Sewell doing crazy things. And I've talked to Darnell Wright because I'm like, you know, we saw him catch the passes in training camp and I was like, ball coming your way soon. And he's like, I hope not. But I'm like, you don't want the ball. You don't want the ball. But I think it's only a matter of time.
- [34:15]
A
You know, car, we talked about that and we actually think we called the play. It was the, the screen pass to Luther Burden they ran in the first quarter that went for the, for the first down, which then turned into the pump screen touchdown for DJ Moore. You know, Darnell Wright is out there lined up as a tight end, and so we think that's where the compliments coming, that somehow, you know, the trips is going to go out for a pass and then Darnell is just going to squeak out to the to the flat for a pass.
- [34:41]
C
Yeah, you're going to run a tight end leak, but you're going to run it with an offensive lineman is essentially what you're going to do.
- [34:46]
A
That's where it comes. Carver, this was great stuff. Really great information as always. Really appreciate your time.
- [34:52]
C
Thanks for having me, guys. Anytime.
- [34:54]
A
All right, we'll talk to you soon. You take care. Have a good time this weekend. Stay warm.
- [34:57]
C
Oh, yeah, we'll try.
- [35:00]
B
That's the key. That is Carmen Vitale of Fox Sports and Network. Great stuff. Find her work on socials at Carmi V. Yeah, that's like her insights into the division. I mean seriously, with packers and Lions, Vikings, Bears all. And now to be specifically Bear stuff, there's, there's a lot of insight there. We always appreciate her joining us.
- [35:23]
A
Couple things. Love that she. Sorry to cut you off there. I love that she Talked about the 13 personnel for the Rams as we, as you mentioned, as we talked about it on dbu. But from the Bears perspective on things, I like that that's her one key matchup. How's the Bears defense going to match up with that bigger, that jumbo package that it put the three tight ends out there? One other thing, when she was talking about Jalen Johnson, and I'm guilty of doing this all the time with professional athletes, I just, I have such respect and, you know, admiration for a professional athlete to be able to do what they do. I don't ever consider the fact the human side of them when they're an athlete and playing a sport at a very high level that I'm watching to be entertained. I don't ever take in consideration Jalen Johnson having to mentally get back from that injury as well too. And I think it's a really, really good point that she made and she brought up about Aiden Christensen, that he hit the ground and then he popped back up was like, okay, yeah, Aiden Hutchinson, I'm back to normal. And it's funny because I immediately thought of coaching youth football and one of the things, and it's, it's, it's a marker that I put on a kid's development from a first year player in tackle football. That, and it happens at different stages for every kid and different points of the season when they get hit hard and they realize that they're not hurt, that it didn't feel good. Like I don't like that pain that it caused my body immediately.
- [36:57]
B
You have some kids, the kids who like it, those, those are the ones.
- [37:00]
A
That get worried about like, like my son Henry. That's interesting.
- [37:05]
B
Second kid.
- [37:05]
C
Yep.
- [37:06]
A
No, first kid.
- [37:07]
B
Hanks the first Hanks, the first kid.
- [37:09]
A
Because often Jack, brother Jackie doesn't want to get hit. No, he doesn't want to get hit. He's not interested in being hit at all. But, but it's that, it's that marker for a kid to say, all right, this didn't feel good, but I'm okay. And once that happens, and I saw it specifically last year with, with one of my kids, he played wide receiver. He played cornerback and safety for me throughout the season. He would get hurt a lot and there wasn't a game that went by where he wasn't down and there was tears, he had to come out and he was hurt. And it's probably the fifth or sixth game of a, of a nine game season where he took a shot and he got up. And then from that point on, dude, he was hitting kids harder on defense than I saw him ever do. And it was like he just mentally said, all right, this hurt, but I'm okay. It didn't feel good, but I'm still good. And I don't ever attribute that need to a professional athlete. I think you're out there and, you know, I'm wrongfully so. You're making millions. You're out there, then fucking get back to 100% play like you're supposed to. I don't ever give them the path that they need of being a human. Still playing a very, you know, violent game. So it was interesting that you brought.
- [38:22]
B
That up, that you bring that up. It is what happens when you move up in USA hockey from peewees to Bantams, because you don't hit until Bantams.
- [38:34]
A
Okay?
- [38:34]
B
Bantams is the first level of youth hockey at which there's actual checking. And the kid you knew, which kids like could not wait, just couldn't wait to get to the point where they could pinball around and bowling ball around out there. And then you had some of the skill position players who, you know, these, these, the wings, and that would just be like, you know, get away from me. I don't like being interfered with and some of the shouldering somebody off the puck in the same way. And it's when that light turns on and you're like, oh, I took a hit, I've still got the puck, or I just got clobbered by two guys up against the glass in the corner and I'm still standing here and I can re engage and just to watch and you know it. I talked to A bantam coach who said this is the hardest level to coach because it takes half a season before you know who's really willing to do this stuff. There's either the people who enjoy it, the people who tolerate it, the people who avoid it, and then you can sort through the way you set your lines.
- [39:41]
A
Yeah. And that's how football works, too. That's how tackle football works. And I think that's a great. Those are great categories. There are the avoiders, the tolerators, and the guys that seek it out and love it, you know, and it's really interesting. And I mean, obviously the goal is you want all your kids to develop to seeking out and loving it and you know, not just tolerating it and certainly not avoiding it. But that's something you have to do as a youth coach and understand who those guys are and then how that works into who you put on the field.
- [40:06]
B
You know, let me address what we, what she was talking about and that's going up against how do the Bears actually defend three tight ends? And with the health now of Kyler Gordon and whatever this situation is, whether or not CJ Gardner Johnson is going to be out of control.
- [40:24]
A
He'll be back. No, he'll be back. He'll be back this week. Yes.
- [40:27]
B
They've also had injuries in the linebacking core. You know, Amina Bog Bemiga has been hurt and now with TJ Edwards out and DeMarco Jackson starting at the weak side, backer Jalen Reeves Mabin, who was a practice squad call up, got into the game and made a couple of plays last week. And that's the name I'm, I'm looking at here. He's 6ft tall, he's 230 pounds and he has been on and off of rosters since 2017. Detroit and Houston and back to Detroit and then Chicago, up and down and up and down and up and down and elevated and signed for the practice squad. But his name was called in the last game and if they do want a bigger body, that might be the guy it might end up being. Jalen Reeves Mabin is that name that you. With which you want to familiarize yourself.
- [41:34]
A
Yeah. And just to update an injury report from yesterday, Joe Tryoncho Yinka was full participation from the concussion. Obama Miga was also a full participation from his concussion, as was CJ Gardner Johnson full participation. So I anticipate all three of those guys back and available. Braxton Jones was a full participation from his knee. Limited was DJ Moore, Rome and oh Jalen Reeves Mabin was, was limited in practice with a back.
- [42:03]
C
Limited.
- [42:04]
B
You can't limit Jalen Reeves Mabin from his level of elevated effectiveness.
- [42:10]
A
Yeah, and it's good that CJ GJ will be back because Nick McLeod was a DNP with that groin.
- [42:14]
B
So.
- [42:15]
A
Yeah, so you'll have, you'll have some guys coming back on linebacker as well as that CJ GJ from that concussion as well. So good stuff.
- [42:22]
B
Any other NFL notes you want to get to? I know that it appears that John Harbaugh is now in talks with the New York Giants to try to finalize something there. Does, does Todd Monken come with him? Are you hiring the A package or is he going to then be in the market for another offensive coordinator?
- [42:47]
A
Well, I mean, that's, that's his guy.
- [42:49]
B
I know it is, but I think.
- [42:51]
A
If, if John, if John is talking to the Giants, it's because he's getting more than head coaching duties and he'll have full say of whatever he wants. And if he wants Monkin with him, he'll bring. Monkin will be there. And I think that was part of the reason why he left Baltimore too, because they wanted to move on from Monkin and he wasn't interested.
- [43:05]
B
It's just interesting though that this is one of these old fashioned head coaches where you can say, all right, who's your offensive guy? Who's your defensive guy?
- [43:11]
A
Who got those guys?
- [43:13]
B
Yeah, right. Usually when you hire a head coach, you know, the head coach is going to be individually responsible for one side of the ball.
- [43:20]
A
So one other thing, one other note too that I noticed when, you know, we're talking about the openings this, this year, nine head coaching openings. It was just three years ago, 20, 22, that there were 10 openings and 10 head coaches were hired. Take a guess at of those 10 that were hired three years ago, how many have been fired? This is fired. How many have been fired?
- [43:44]
B
Seven or eight.
- [43:45]
A
Eight is correct. Yes, 80%. Eight of those coaches hired three years ago have been fired.
- [43:51]
B
When you think about it, it's not really that rare for a third of the league. That's, that's the bottom third of the legal flip. You know, between a quarter and a third is just always going to be chasing. It's just, you don't want to be that team over and over again.
- [44:05]
A
Yeah, but you know, you would have, you know, and especially if, you know, looking at the AFC North, I mean, you would have, you wouldn't have thought that John Harbaugh and Mike Tomlin would walk away in the same. Well, not walk away, but one leave and one walk away at the. In the same season. I mean, that would have.
- [44:19]
C
That's.
- [44:20]
A
If you put money on that before the season started, that the Ravens and the Steelers would be hiring head coaches. You know, you could have made a lot of money on that one.
- [44:28]
B
Pretty amazing. And then now it affects the broadcast booths. It affects the all of those studio shows. It affects the booths.
- [44:36]
A
Yeah. I can see from what I've read about Mike Tomlin, I could see Tomlin doing nothing for a year. Like no tv, no coaching. I could see him just taking a moment and figuring out what he wants his next iteration of head coaching to look like.
- [44:49]
B
He could come fishing with me.
- [44:51]
A
I'm sure he would love to do that.
- [44:53]
B
He's welcome.
- [44:54]
C
We'll ask.
- [44:54]
B
He can come chase some smallies with me. I also want to mention mollies, not Somalis. I'm not catching Somalis. Not in Minnesota. No. I'm catching smallies.
- [45:06]
A
Oh, Somalis.
- [45:07]
B
Oh, yes.
- [45:09]
A
Catching some somal. Okay.
- [45:11]
B
I'm the captain now. You talk about getting in trouble for posting a picture that you thought a northern pike was bad. Look what I caught, gang. It was released to Alfie.
- [45:25]
C
No, really, really, really.
- [45:27]
B
I put him back. He was fine.
- [45:28]
A
I don't believe you, Bernstein.
- [45:29]
C
No way.
- [45:30]
B
Bernstein, you totally killed that Somali that you caught.
- [45:36]
A
All right, so you want Mike Tomlin to go fishing for smallies, like smallmouth bass? Is that what you're saying? Not a Somali, a small.
- [45:44]
B
Yes, thank you. They're making sure to make that scared me.
- [45:48]
A
I'm like, buddy, I'm here with you now, too. You're going to get both of us fired. Stop going after Somalis.
- [45:52]
B
That would get me in terrible, terrible trouble if I was out doing that on Chicago Lakeshore. Oh, my God. Thanks to Giordano's for being a part of forward progress here because they've got something that is going to absolutely set up your weekend here for playoff time. Giordano's is celebrating this big game with a limited edition pizza called Da Pizza.
- [46:16]
A
Da Pizza.
- [46:17]
B
Inspired by one of the most iconic themes in Chicago history. It is available@giordano's.com now if you say, well, what is the pizza? Tell me what you think of this. I'm looking at a picture of it right now. I would go with, with deep dish on this one personally. You can get it deep dish, you can get it thin crust, you can get in their, their tavern style. But it is meatballs, pepperoni, and Chicago style jardinera. Yeah, that's pretty good right there. And like, the meatballs are like the size of racquetballs in the picture I'm looking at here. So if you're going to really do this thing right. Yeah, I like it.
- [47:01]
A
Danny likey. Yeah.
- [47:02]
B
And I, I'm told that we are going to be sampling this soon, so I'd say come hungry tomorrow maybe.
- [47:09]
A
Yeah, I'm really, I'm really excited and want to, you know, give a full welcome to our friends at Giordano's here on on Ford Progress. Really exciting. Really glad to have them as a, as a partner here moving forward. This is great stuff. Really excited about that.
- [47:24]
B
Order yours now@giordano's.com. get the whole crew ready for Sunday and, and let's keep this run going. This is Chicago football, Chicago pride. Giordano's. And the pizza. Oh, if you get it at Giordano's, they will do a Parmesan stenciled 85 on it in the Bears uniform font. Makes for a great little picture for your, for your gram.
- [47:50]
A
For the gram. Like you always.
- [47:52]
B
Yes. Yeah.
- [47:53]
A
The Graham.
- [47:54]
B
All right.
- [47:54]
A
All right, man.
- [47:56]
B
That's Forward Progress. And we've got a guest coming tomorrow as well. We're going to make sure that you are coached up and ready to go for this game. This is Forward Progress, a Chicago Bears podcast on 312Sports. Forward progress has stopped.
- [48:20]
A
Forward Progress, a Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312 Sports.