← Forward Progress - A Chicago Bears Podcast
Forward Progress - A Chicago Bears Podcast
Carmen Vitali - Fox Sports Radio talks Drew Dalman's retirement and all things Chicago Bears
00:42:18
Loading summary
Transcript139 lines
- [00:01]
A
If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, you know, having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering. With on time restocks, your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift and you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.
- [00:32]
B
I mean, if you're a Bears fan,
- [00:34]
C
you're thinking forward Progress. Come on.
- [00:37]
D
10. 219.
- [00:39]
B
219. Forward progress. Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312 Sports.
- [00:53]
C
We give you forward progress here on 312 Sports. I want to thank you for joining us for our little special episode that we did yesterday in the wake of the news of the retirement of Drew Dahlman from the Chicago Bears and from the NFL at age 27. So thanks for popping in and we're going to do our best, obviously, when situations warrant it.
- [01:18]
B
You know, also too Dan, too, I don't, I'm sorry to cut you off. It's just we, we did do a regular forward progress episode yesterday before the Drew Dahlman stop. So if you haven't gone back and checked out the forward progress regular episode from yesterday, head back in there, do that as well. I know a lot of people were on live with us and then have watched that podcast since. But go back and don't miss the the, the regular podcast from Ford Progress yesterday as well.
- [01:45]
C
Yeah, we talked about the fact that it is possible, if not probable to use a term that we were discussing earlier, that the Bears could be flying to Madrid to play the Falcons for their European home game out there. The Bears are on the schedule and if that is the game or the Bears have the marketing rights in Spain, we talked about that possibility and hope that you would, you would plan a vacation around it and head out there.
- [02:10]
B
Well, you know, Dan, speaking of flying to Europe, I know we, we do have someone coming on the show today that is actually flying to Europe not too far from now.
- [02:20]
C
That's right. It's going to be exciting times for our friend Carmen Vitale of Fox Sports who covers the Bears and the n NFC set NFC North. Carmen, thanks for joining us. Much appreciated.
- [02:33]
D
Thank you guys so much. Yeah, we had to finalize some stuff for our wedding, which is taking place in Italy right before the combine. So right after super bowl we went straight to Rome. And then right after Rome, we went straight to combine. So if you can hear the raspiness in my voice, like, I don't think I fully recovered yet, but I'm going to have to for the wedding, which isn't in a couple months.
- [02:54]
B
So I think. I think you'll be able to manage a wedding in Rome. Doesn't sound like a terrible, terrible, A terrible way to get married and start your life together.
- [03:06]
D
So, yeah, I know we went to Rome.
- [03:09]
C
We got married and then immediately went to Rome. We didn't actually get married there, but I'm just envious of the time that you and your loved ones are going to have there.
- [03:18]
B
Yeah, absolutely.
- [03:19]
C
Oh, that'd be a fun invite to get. Yeah, good. Well, that's really cool. You're the perfect person to have on today. And this is why, this is the question that has been in the back of my mind and because of your experience and depth and breadth of knowledge of this particular division and Ben Johnson's history, et cetera. I mentioned it when we were all sort of reeling from the Dahlman news yesterday. I happened to be speaking with a lifelong Lions fan and the Lions fan said, oh yeah, well, we know all about that, about a center just up and retiring who's critical to what we do in this offense. And I'm like, yeah, you do. But you can kind of see it coming. For a guy who's on his almost literal last legs and is 30 some years old, you don't see it coming from a 27 year old. But the process of replacing somebody that significant in an offense like this, is there anything that the Lions went through, anything about that adjustment period that was bumpy? Frankly, that is an object lesson for the Bears in this situation. Anything or maybe nothing.
- [04:33]
D
I mean, you can tell that it affected the Lions unit, the offensive line, it affected the offense. Now, can you extrapolate Frank Ragnall's retirement from the coordinator change and all of that kind of stuff? Maybe not. You know, obviously I think if Ben Johnson was still there, there might have been smoother sailing for that unit. But you can't argue that the Lions offense wasn't what it was when Frank Ragnow was at the center of it and being such a pivotal piece. I mean, Frank Ragn had been a longtime lion and had, you know, entrenched himself in that team and, and was really a leader. And not to say that Drew Dahlman wasn't, but from a team standpoint, I don't think like, you know, you look at Joe Tuney more than you look at Drew Dalman as Who was the leader of that offense, who was the leader of that offensive line? However, the anchor of the offensive line was Drew Dahlman because of what he was able to do for Caleb Williams and all of the pre snap stuff that he was able to handle for him. There was so much that Drew Dahlman did when it came to, you know, sliding different protections, all the protection calls, identifying things for Caleb Williams, who the mic point was, where the pressure was coming from and adjusting accordingly so that Caleb didn't have to worry about that. Caleb could worry about things like going under center for the first time in his career, fundamental footwork, things that he had to do under Ben Johnson, turning his back to the defense in an offense that is so heavily play action that that's kind of hard for especially young quarterbacks who aren't really used to doing that in college. So Drew Dolman took it a tremendous amount off of Caleb Williams plateau and was also just such a pivotal piece in the way that this offense is run because Ben Johnson maybe more than anyone knows the value and how crucial the offensive line is in particular. And you need a guy that is an experienced veteran, smart center and how you kind of draw the line there of like what's too smart at this point because he went to Stanford and he clearly has so much experience with what this game can do and, and how it can affect you after football after seeing what his dad is going through. And that's something that, you know, you're like, all right, well, he's smart enough to know that he has to get out early. And that's kind of essentially what's happened here. And now the Bears are going to have to figure out how to gain back that continuity that they found maybe mid season last year and get that unit. You know, the strength of that offense was the interior of the offensive line. And now you have to figure out how to maintain that.
- [06:56]
B
All right, such good stuff there and so much to follow up on, Carmen. But let's start with the fact that we were talking earlier on DBU that what Brad Biggs had written in his mailbag in the Tribune that the Bears knew that this was not only possible, but that it was probable. So what did the Bears know? When did they know it? What can we learn from inside the building about what, what took. What took place for Drew Dalma's decision?
- [07:24]
D
So I, I can only speak to when I was made aware of this being a possibility. And I knew that the Bears were aware of it when I was aware of it, which was last week during the combine. And you can. There was rumors about the Bears sniffing around some free agent centers all throughout the week. And now you know why. A lot of people, I think, thought kind of chalked up to depth or, or this, that, the other. But it clearly they, they knew that this was a possibility. And I say they knew it was a possibility. They didn't know it was a certainty. Because the Bears did try to change Drew Dolman's mind. Even his agency was a little like, hey, are you sure you want to do this? Because again, he's 27 years old. He's. He just made the Pro Bowl. He just signed a new contract last year. He's at the height of his career and he's also part of a unit that was one of the best in football last year and looked to maintain that continuity and hopefully that success going into this year. So there was no, there was no, like, long term indicators. Like, I've seen a lot of people on social media be like, why would he sign the contract if he knew? I don't think he knew then. The Bears certainly didn't know then, but they, they have had a few days or maybe a week. I don't, I don't know. Like I said, I only became aware of it last week and it wasn't a done deal. It was like a, hey, this is a possibility, but the Bears are trying to change his mind type of thing, is what I was told.
- [08:41]
B
And do we have any, any background as to what his, what his thought process was? I know you've mentioned that. What's going on with his dad? Maybe you can share that with our, our community as well. Like what's happening with his dad that maybe influenced his decision. But what else did we learn about what was behind the decision?
- [08:57]
D
Yeah, from everything that was told to me, it was essentially that, hey, listen, his dad played, played seven years in the NFL. He had two neck surgeries, one of which is what forced his retirement. When he was with The San Francisco 49ers, he had, he had a neck surgery in college at Stanford and still went on to play in the NFL for seven years. And he became a coach after that. He's still, he's a coach and administrator at a high school now. And essentially Drew has seen what his, like the pain that his dad has gone through, the surgeries his dad has gone through. I don't know if there was anything specific. I wasn't told that there was anything specific that necessarily has happened with his dad, but it was kind of this thing where I have to imagine if I'm in Drew's shoes. And I see that I have an example of what this game can do to you every single day. And I'm faced with that reality every single day because it's my parent that's going through it. You have to constantly weigh how much is worth it for you and how much you want to risk, and I think that the risk just kind of became too great. Like I said, I don't know if anything specific has happened with his dad, but it's an example that his dad, you know, he's following because he's like, I don't want that to be me. I don't want to be in constant pain. I don't. I want to be there for my kids. I want to be there for my family. And I just have to imagine it's a really, really hard decision to make, especially when you're not only leaving money on the table, but as. From my understanding, the Bears could ask for his prorated signing bonus back, and he could have to repay millions of dollars to make this decision, all of which he was aware of when he made this decision. So I think that has to speak to the gravity with which, you know, he. He didn't make this decision lightly. This was something that. Yeah.
- [10:38]
B
And as far as we know, there's no medical or physical things happening with Drew that is saying, hey, I could be heading in the same direction. As far as we know that there's nothing going on with Drew Dahlman.
- [10:48]
D
Right. As far as we know, there hasn't been any sort of injury that's become publicly, like, known or, you know, any sort of. I mean, he was banged up by the end of last season, but everybody's banged up at the end of the season. Honestly, this actually is really reminiscent of something that I. When I was with the Buccaneers, Ali Marpet retired. Really?
- [11:10]
C
Another smart. Yeah. Another thoughtful guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [11:15]
D
Who wanted to be around for things after football and had other pursuits outside of football. And, I mean, in Ali's case, it was like a. Hey, I'm an All Pro player. I went to a Pro bowl, and we won a Super Bowl. What else is left for me in this game? Like, I've done everything, so I might as well quit while I'm ahead. And now he's happy. And his family. Him and his wife have. I think. I don't know if they had their second, but they have a second kid on the way, and he. He's slimmed down tremendously. He's still very involved in the Tampa Bay community as far as philanthropic efforts go. But he's. He's living life very normally. Where he was like, I don't know that this would have been possible if I continued to play.
- [11:51]
C
It's funny that you. When you mentioned he's. That he slimmed down. I will tell you this when I was looking at pictures of Drew Dahlman yesterday. In two months, he'll be unrecognizable. Yeah. Like, you can, you know, NFL offensive linemen who are carrying. Even though it looks good on them, though it's unhealthy weight, like, human beings are not supposed to be. They're just not supposed to look like that, which is why so many of these great players, they'll drop 70, 80 pounds, sometimes even more than that. And I think Dalman, that's part of it. That's part of the strain. It isn't just neurological. It's the strain you put on your heart, the strain you put on your vascular system. Everything you do to your entire body, asking your body to carry all that, those extra pounds and propel you around at those speeds.
- [12:45]
B
It's so crazy. I'll never forget, like, the first time I saw, like, the 85 Bears offensive line, like, after football.
- [12:52]
D
After. Yeah.
- [12:52]
B
When they was like, oh, my God, are they sick? Like, what's.
- [12:55]
C
What's.
- [12:56]
B
What's wrong with him?
- [12:56]
C
Yep. Oh, no.
- [12:57]
B
He's just. He's normal and healthy again.
- [12:59]
C
Not all of them were. I mean, J.J. hogenberg got a heart attack at 33.
- [13:02]
D
Yeah.
- [13:03]
C
I mean, they're not all healthy.
- [13:04]
D
It's really interesting. So Ali and I were very, very close when we were in Tampa together, and I remember him telling me all the time about how much he had to eat just to maintain his weight. And, like, he's eating, like, thousand calorie shakes multiple times a day. He was getting up in the middle of the night sometimes to have to. Like, during his bulking season, to have to eat a peanut butter sandwich or, you know, and he was trying not to do it with, like, heart unhealthy foods. So he was. It was a lot of chicken. It was a lot of rice. And so many times he was just like, carmen, this is work. This is. I never want to see another grain of rice. I never want to see another chicken. Like, it's not as if I'm sitting here eating foods that I enjoy and, you know, eating them in quantities that I enjoy. He's like, I'm literally, like, barely holding on when I'm stomach. Like, having to stomach all of this food just to keep my physique the way that it needs to be at my playing weight.
- [13:54]
C
Think about the term you just used, bulking season. You use the term unironically. That's something you say about cattle or like, you say that about. Well, I'm looking out there at the field. I think we're getting close to bulking season for all this. You know, it's just like, come on. I know, I know, I know. It's amazing.
- [14:17]
D
There's so much more that goes into this, and it does. And I'm really glad that you brought that up, Dan, because it's not just the neurological stuff, which is extraordinarily important, obvious, but it is putting a strain on so much of your body because you're just. What you're being asked to do isn't natural, at least for 98% of these guys. Some of these guys are just built like that, and that's. That's how they would be regardless. But that's. That's the small, small, small minority, most of these guys. It is a tremendous amount of work to keep at the weight and keep good weight on, too.
- [14:50]
C
I used to talk to Big Cat Williams about it back in the day with the Bears, and. And I always. That other offensive linemen would say things like, he just big. That's just a big man. That's just a big. Like, he's. He's. He's. You know, the terms that you use. He was born like that. He's like. Some. It's. But it's relatively rare because of the speeds at which you're expected to move now that it's almost all the time that they'll look at a guy, they'll look at a college player and be like, we have to put £80 on him and. And project how he's going to carry his pads. Hell, they're talking about stuff like that at the con. You just left the combine. All those conversations are being had. Who's ma. They use the term maxed out, meaning this is as big as they're going to get. And it's. It's kind of grotesque when we talk about.
- [15:36]
D
Bring that. If you bring that back to Drew Dahlman. Drew Dahlman's not a big dude. Like, he. He's already a little undersized when it comes to centers, but centers can kind of get away with that again because of their leverage points, because of where they're starting on the line and the technique that they can use and all of that kind of stuff. But he's not a big dude. And I have to imagine that he is going to look almost exactly like Ali Marpet in a few months time because he's not meant to carry as much weight as he has been even with being an undersized center. So I'm really, from a human standpoint, I'm really, really happy for Drew because there's just not a whole lot of guys that are able to kind of walk away on their terms. So often most of what we see is either the league loses interest in you or injury forces you to retire or anything. Like there are so few guys that really get to do this on their terms and walk away on their terms. And he's doing that. And I, I couldn't be happier for him as a human. I couldn't be happier for him as like his family because you know, you at this point, you walk away what sounds like relatively unscathed and that's just not the reality for most of these guys.
- [16:45]
B
Go back to what we were talking earlier about Drew Dahlman and what he was able to do for Caleb Williams and being able to take things off his plate and recognize coverages and call out coverages and protections. Now that makes sense to me. When you have a second year quarterback who was basically doing his rookie season over again with a real NFL coaching regime there in the building. How does that transition happen when a quarterback becomes more veteran and his, his growth, we saw that growth for Caleb Williams last year and he begins to do those things on his own. How does that kind of transition between center and quarterback where the quarterback takes on more of that as he gets better at doing it?
- [17:22]
D
I think ideally it happens gradually because you're with the same, you have the same center quarterback pairing for a while now. Obviously that's not going to be the case with the Chicago Bears. So I think one of two things is going to happen. I think the. Either the Bears are going to bring in like, I don't know, Tyler Biotish. Like I said, Tyler Linderbaum like one
- [17:39]
C
of those guys that the second Tyler.
- [17:44]
D
I should have said Linderbaum first because he's actually my first choice.
- [17:47]
C
Mine too. But he's going to be so expensive. I don't know if they can afford him now.
- [17:50]
D
He is. And, and it's, it's worth noting that this, you know, with Drew Dahlman's retirement will free up some cap space for the Bears. I've seen estimates around 10, 10 million ish. How much that matters for a center is going to be interesting, but you can always get creative. If you have a front office and an ownership group that is willing to. And now that's a big question with the Chicago.
- [18:10]
B
Every dollar helps every dollar.
- [18:12]
D
Exactly. So it's, it's good. I think that's one area where they just say, hey listen, we still need a guy that knows what he's looking at that can take stuff off of Caleb Williams plate. He's not a finished product because of course Caleb Williams isn't a finished product. Ben Johnson has said that on multiple occasions where he's like it's going to take him 10,000 snaps or 100,000 snaps, whatever he said, like to really grasp what he's looking at and what he, how to operate this offense or I think what does, what may happen is you get somebody else. Maybe it still is that veteran guy. But Caleb takes it upon himself to take on more and his development is kind of accelerated because of that. And that can be a good thing and that can be a bad thing. It just really depends on how hard Caleb works kind of at the mental side of things and how he processes things. The other thing to consider too is that the Bears are playing a first place schedule this year. They have a target on their back this year. No one like they're not taking anybody by surprise. And that is going to result in even more complex schemes as far as defenses that are playing against them. And it's going to require I think a depth of knowledge that I don't know that Caleb has just because he hasn't been in the league that long. Right. So I really, I hope that regardless of what happens, I do hope that they go with another veteran center. Like I said, I think Tyler Linderbaum, as expensive as he would be, would be worth it because I just don't see, see this offense not only for, from Caleb's perspective but from the run game and just the cohesiveness of what Ben Johnson wants to do offensively. I don't see this working without a veteran, really smart, maybe not too smart center that will anchor this offensive line.
- [19:47]
C
Well, what I was worried about Carmen was the, the fact that Biatish is available because he's not primarily an outside zone run game center.
- [20:00]
D
And I'm thinking Bears do.
- [20:03]
C
Yeah, like, like that's a non starter then. I mean I'm glad they had him in. I'm glad they worked him out. Maybe they could talk to him and say hey, I don't know why, maybe it just hasn't been used. Maybe Ben Johnson and perhaps more importantly Dan Roshar are saying, don't worry about it. He might not have been, but we can, we can fit this guy into what we do. And you got to trust the coaches in that regard. I have been told that that Roshar is going to have and has worked himself into a place where Ben really trusts him. He's got a very, very strong voice and I think it's going to be pretty important that he's involved in whatever this pursuit is. But boy, Linderbaum checks almost every box. I mean, again, a little small, but fast and smart. And that then you don't have to put anything else on Caleb's plate. If you got that guy there, it's just going to be an expenditure. And if you could, when you say, I know there could be a savings, but there also is an acceleration of the prorated bonus portions. At what point do the Bears pay the piper on this deal and what are the protocols if they want to claw back the bonus they've already paid? Is that considered kosher to do that or not?
- [21:17]
D
Teams have done that before. Teams have asked of that. Have asked that. I think it really just depends on ownership and if they want to, if they want to ask for that back, I would tend to think, you know, the Bears ownership, it's a family. They're. They're family people. And for all from everything that I've heard, you know, they try to take care of their guys. But it does matter. When you're talking about, all right, now you have to replace Tyler. We have to replace what Drew Dahlman did for us. And in the process of doing that, you might have to convert some other players contracts into signing bonuses that way that you can free up some cap space that way. But that requires more upfront money. And all of that kind of stuff plays into this for a ownership family and a team that has been kind of reluctant to do things like that because they're not maybe as liquid as some other owners are and that it like though there's a salary cap, I think there's a gross misunderstanding of like how much it still takes to be creative with that cap and how much upfront money that can take and how the ownership groups that have more money you like. It's no coincidence that Jeffrey Lurie and the Philadelphia Eagles are so creative with the cap because Jeffrey, Larry is willing to put up money in advance or put up money up front to convert some of those contracts and make that, you know, a little bit more front loaded for some guys to free up immediate cap space. So that's the big question for me is how the Bears are going to be willing to do that. And if they are, does that mean that they're going to ask for as much back from Drew Dahlman as they can? Drew, like I said, Drew Dahlman is very well aware that that is a possibility, and he was well aware of that when he made this decision. So I think that, you know, for a Stanford guy, if they ask for it, he. He won't, you know, it's not going to fight it. He can't fight it, really. It's part of the contracts, part of the deal. As far as some of the other particulars, it's still kind of a very murky thing. I don't want to, like, talk out of my depth when I'm talking, like, specifically about the contract, but what I've just been told is that all future guarantees are voided with the retirement and the. That there is the possibility that he will have to pay back some of the prorated stuff, and then that would accelerate. What isn't prorated would accelerate onto this year's cap. But it's still a minimum. It's a minimal amount. I think. I think the number I saw thrown around was around like, 4 million or something like that. So really, like, I. I have a huge issue with what I've been seeing on social media from so many people being like, how can you do this? You better get every cent back from this guy. But, like, really mad that he is doing this. And I'm like, this is like, you can't. You can't put a price on your own health. And second of all, like, it's not costing the Bears a whole lot of money. It's a. It's going to be a net savings. How much of a savings? I'm not sure, but it's going to be a net savings on their cap this year. So I don't know what else you want. He's going to literally have to give money back, guys. So.
- [24:16]
B
Yeah, and it's interesting, too, when looking at the situation. And yeah, of course it's not ideal. It's not what you'd want as a Bears fan. And I think I can not sympathize with or agree with their feelings, but I understand where they're coming from. But this was the ideal time for it to happen. I mean, the league season hasn't kicked off yet. They haven't committed any free agency money. They haven't brought any draft class in yet and committed salary of 2026 to anyone. So, yeah, it's not ideal, but now the general manager, the head coach and all of his staff, they get to go out and do their job and add a new player. So this is again, not ideal, but not the end of the world for the organization. So knowing all of that, I was in the small minority of left tackle was my biggest priority going into this off season. Now you have to add a center and there's still all the talk of defensive line and safety and linebackers and where we at with our own free agents. How does this impact what the Bears do moving forward? Is it just, you know, can you confidently say, yeah, they're going to look free agency for a center? Are they going to look draft? Does this impact what they do in the first round now?
- [25:23]
D
Yeah, the one thing that keeps me from saying for sure they're going after a veteran free agent and they're probably going to spend on him and that probably precludes them from, you know, getting high priced free agents elsewhere along the roster is that at least on the other side of each of this center of the center position, you have Joe Tunney, you have Jonah Jackson, and those are two really, really, really good guards. You have Joe Tooney, who is elite protector of the year, in fact, inaugural winner of the protector of the year, which I couldn't believe went to a Bears offensive lineman. My heart, my little trenches heart was so happy. But that's, that's what stops me from saying, all right, maybe you do think that you really believe in one of these guys at center that you could throw him out there and let him grow alongside Caleb Williams because of the fact he's got two bets on either side of him that can help him. Now the other part of that, if you go one step further, is, well, all right, if you have the center that needs help on the interior, how does that work A with the scheme, outside zone scheme. But then if you don't have an answer quite yet at left tackle, Joe Tunney has kind of been the guy to help that side of things. He's on the left side, he helps the left tackle. He can't help both guys in the, on the like when from his position, he has to kind of choose in favor one or the other. So it's, it's a, it's become a tremendous puzzle piece or like this has just become a puzzle that Ryan Poles is going to have to solve along with Ben Johnson, along with Dan Roshar, that maybe they weren't banking on coming into this. But I'm agreeing with you guys. Where it's like, if he was going to do it, thank God he did it now because he told them. And, and that was completely on purpose, I'm sure, too, from Drew's part, which was like, who has a tremendous understanding of how the NFL cycle works, how roster construction works, how front offices are built, all of that kind of stuff. His sister, I believe, is like the director of recruiting for Stanford, so she's in football admin. And he just has a tremendous knowledge of how this all works. So I don't think it was a coincidence that he decided to tell them now, which allows them to kind of pivot and figure some things out in free agency and then subsequently the draft.
- [27:33]
B
Well, let me ask you this. Let me get your opinion on it. And let's take the guys that are currently in the building out of the equation. So take Luke Newman, Theo Benedict. Let's say that they. Okay, so we have. Braxton Jones is a free agent. So take all those guys out of the equation. Would you rather go veteran free agent at center with a rookie at left tackle?
- [27:55]
D
Yes OR okay, yes, 1,000%. There's no other. Like, if I was constructing this team. Yeah. I think that veteran pays off at center because of how cerebral you have to be and how it just. We, we tried it. You tried it with, you know, with Caleb Williams and not really having the experience, the guy at center in his first year, and that clearly didn't work. Right. You bring in, you bring in the veteran, you bring in the guy that's seen everything that, that has played this position for a while and things work. And that's not a coincidence to me. I just think that you need experience pays off so much more at the center position and really the further inside you go on the offensive line, whereas with left tackle, it's one of those things where if they have the traits, you can kind of bank on those a little bit more because it's really like a. It's the offensive line equivalent of C ball, get ball. Like, you have the guy on the outside and you're going to go get him and you're going to have to block for him. And if you have the traits, I don't think there's. There's not as much that goes into the cerebral part of the game on the outside, it gets more cerebral as you go in is how I've always understood the game and how it was taught to me. So I would absolutely rather take the rookie at left tackle. There was a tackle out of the tackle out of Georgia. I know Everybody, like, started falling in love with him freely at the combine. Yeah. And the reason I actually. So my fiance is Dave Hellman. He does a draft show with Dane Brugler. It's a really wonderful resource to have inside the house. And we're watching the combine, and I watched him run and I looked at him and I was like, who's that? And he was like, oh, yeah, that's the Georgia tackle. And I was like, oh, right. Yeah, he's got a really good trunk. And, like, Dave understands that. I mean, the best. Like, I mean, like, from a purely football standpoint, he's got an ass, and I want my. My left tackle to have it. So that's something that was missing with, like, Braxton Jones and not to get too in the weeds on what I look for.
- [29:55]
B
No.
- [29:55]
C
An anchor. Braxton Jones is. His problem is the bull rush.
- [29:59]
B
Yes.
- [29:59]
C
His problem is that right into his chin and he gets knocked backward. Right.
- [30:04]
D
So whatever the Bears have to do to go get the Georgia tackle, please go get the Georgia tackle, because I really like his trunk. And I really.
- [30:11]
B
I'm so glad you said that, because going through and I'm just. I am. I am the furthest from an intelligent expert when it comes to draft stuff, but that guy is tops on my tackle list.
- [30:20]
D
Yes.
- [30:21]
B
The kid from Georgia. My tackle list.
- [30:23]
D
The sad part is I think that everybody kind of got hip to his game. Whereas, like, Dave said that Dane, his. His co host on the athletic show. The athletic football show, or actually it's the building the beast section of that show. Dane has been on this guy for a long time, and now, like, everybody's kind of with the combine and how he tested and just getting a really good look at him. Right. Everybody's like, oh, who's this tackle from charge? Yeah.
- [30:48]
B
I mean, if I'm talking about him, then the entire world knows about him. So it's not like. It's not like some hidden secret. I found some gem. No. I'm just the last guy to see the video and say, oh, I like the way that guy looks.
- [30:57]
D
Yeah, I. I did, too. I was like, oh, yeah.
- [30:59]
C
So when. When do they suffer the biggest cost of this departure? When. When does it really hit them? If it accelerates up now and they get out of some of this stuff down the road, they get out from under the dead cat money. You're. You're making me feel a little bit better because I. I thought that sort of the upfront pain was going to be a little bit worse with those accelerations, but you're you're painting a picture of manageability at the very least.
- [31:27]
D
I think it's going to be manageable from the very and this was always going to have to be a very strategic off season for Ryan polls. I was joking about how like there's just not a lot of drama this year right. For the Chicago Bears in the off season. But Ryan polls job is probably harder this year and it's like not probably. It definitely is harder this year. And so that's why you've seen Jermaine Edmonds being able to seek a trade and they're like all this talk about DJ Moore's contract and offloading that somehow I don't. I think that the cost is probably going and again stranger things have happened. It depends on how creative the Bears are allowed to get. And Ryan pulls did say that like eventually we're gonna have more dead money than we've had. We've done a really good job with that. But eventually that's not going to be the case as you start to get better and build this roster that way. I think it's gonna, the cost is going to come with like not being able to go out and get like Max Crosby or even maybe Trey Hendrickson. Like you're just not gonna like it's gonna come at the expense of another high priced position that was probably a position of need that you're going to maybe have to go out and get like a Bradley Chubb instead. And can you live with that at this point and you're hoping yes. In the second year under Dennis Allen's system and with some really good draft picks and stuff like you could, you could still get, you know what you need out of that unit. But I think that it's a non starter for this offense to not be able to score points for the simple fact that Ben Johnson, if he does anything, he scores points. And in order to score points you need to solidify that offensive line so that becomes the instant priority which may kick some things down that were initially a priority.
- [33:08]
B
And I know there's lots of concerns on the defensive side of the football, but for me it's not about the guys that you could possibly add to the roster. For me it's Jalen Johnson, Kyler Gordon, what are they playing at? Because if they're not playing at the levels we need them to play at that the Bears need them to play at, it doesn't matter who you add. It really doesn't to me. So like where are those guys going to be for the 2026 season is more valuable, more important than who are they going to add at right end?
- [33:34]
D
Yeah, it all, it all like, it all works together on the defensive side of the ball. And it's something that was drilled into me very, very early when I was learning the game from coaches, by the way, like defensive coaches were the ones teaching me all of this and saying, hey, listen, it all works together because of the fact that NFL offenses are so sophisticated that they can, they will attack any level that is lacking. And so it means it renders the rest of these guys useless. So if you can't cover the back end well, you're not going to be able to get pressure because these guys like quarterbacks can just let it rip and get it down this, get it down the field and you're not going to be able to do anything about that. And I mean we saw this last year how the lack of pressure really puts a lot of pressure on the back end then and how then that play kind of comes down. So it all really works together and you just need to be. I think the good news for the Bears though is that if this offense lives up to what it should be in year two under Ben Johnson and they score the amount of points that they, I know that he's capable of scoring that you don't need an all world beating defense, which I know is insane to say in Chicago, but you just need a good defense. You need like somewhere in middle of the pack just to keep you under, you know, keep opponents from scoring 20 more than 25 points a game. And if you can do that, you're going to be fine if you're, if you're the Bears in my eyes. I think, and this, it goes against everything I grew up with saying like I'll prioritize the offense and it goes against everything that we've known with this franchise. But I really do think that when you have a coach like Ben Johnson, you just need this defense to be middle of the pack good, just not historically bad. It's, it's the same stuff I've been saying about the Bengals forever where I'm just like, good God, your offense is scoring 30 plus points and your defense is letting up 32 points like they're historically bad defense. And it makes me so angry because I love Joe Burrow and I love tomorrow.
- [35:27]
B
Yeah, because I can't remember what the Bears record was last year when they allowed 24 points or less. I think they were seven and one, eight and one. I mean, something. It was just, that was the number you could give up three touchdowns and a field goal and still win a lot of football games.
- [35:39]
D
Still win the game, because, yes, you had a very, very potent offense, and that was in year one. And if there's anything I've seen from Ben Johnson after following him in his time during in Detroit, it's that this gets better. Like, the offense gets better. It gets more productive, more explosives, more points. Because Ben Johnson, again, if nothing else, this is what was like. Like, every coach was just like, if nothing else, Ben's gonna score some points. That's like. That's all you got to worry about.
- [36:06]
C
All right. Who else did you like at the combine? I'm just curious if you.
- [36:08]
D
If.
- [36:09]
C
If you don't want to tie yourself to anybody here, reputationally, I understand, but for years, we always played the game. Who's your guy? I'm just wondering. On. On that little list, you're like, you know what? I. Here's somebody. Round five, round six, round seven, or maybe higher that you just like because you like them.
- [36:27]
D
I don't know if I could say, like, the day three guys at this point, I'm still going through all of my draft prep, but I will say that. And, like, you know, everybody fell in love with him, too. But, like, as someone who. My favorite player ever is Lance Briggs. My favorite player.
- [36:41]
C
Really?
- [36:41]
D
Yes. I was like. I mean, I liked her lacquer when he played and stuff like that, but I didn't. I feel like Briggs didn't get the credit he deserved. And also, he played the game, like, way more violently, which is what I liked as a kid. I've actually never met him still, so, like, I need to meet him, because he's, like, around, and I keep missing him. I have, like, a Briggs jersey. I have, like, my teddy bear has, like, a Briggs jersey on it, too. Like, I'm. I was obsessed with him as a kid. Anyway. I have a soft spot for linebackers, is what I'm trying to say. And so, like, I just. And. And I'm Italian, so I don't know if you guys know where I'm going with this, but obviously, Sunny Styles is like, he's gonna go, like, top five at this point, and. Which is insane for like, a. You know, depending on what teams want him to do. I know he's very versatile, but what his mom said, the. They named him Sonny, or they nicknamed him Sonny because he was as fiery as the character from the Godfather. I was like, this. This is my guy.
- [37:35]
B
You're sold. Yeah, that's it.
- [37:36]
D
I'M sold.
- [37:37]
B
So just when you said that, when you said his nickname was, I'm like, if this goes to the Godfather.
- [37:41]
D
It was the Godfather. Okay.
- [37:43]
B
Perfect.
- [37:43]
C
Okay.
- [37:44]
D
It was like I.
- [37:45]
C
The thing about Santino was his pugnaciousness and his truculence. And that fire also got him perforated.
- [37:56]
D
Yeah, it did. Which you hope does. Obviously won't happen.
- [37:59]
B
You win some, you lose some, Dan, you
- [38:03]
C
die by the sword.
- [38:04]
B
Like to have your parents nickname or like name you Sunny.
- [38:07]
D
Yeah. Like knowing well what that meant. But I, I loved it. I like that was. I just made me fall in love with him. But obviously he's not an under the radar prospect. I'll get back to you guys. On the under the radar. But that was like the story of the combine for me where I was like, what?
- [38:21]
B
That's great.
- [38:21]
D
So he plays my favorite position and he is named after or nicknamed after one of my favorite movies of all time.
- [38:29]
B
Awesome. Love it. Which is, you know, why you're going to be in Rome.
- [38:35]
D
The wedding scene from the Godfather.
- [38:37]
B
You know, part of, part of our trip to Italy was we spent some time in Sicily and we actually were in the. The city where they filmed Godfather Cafe where Michael sits down with Apollonius.
- [38:48]
D
I just got a TikTok for that.
- [38:49]
B
Or like I was there. I was at that table. I was sitting at that table in that cafe where they filmed that scene. So it's just. Yeah, it was really. That's something you need to look into and make that part of your. Part of your trip. Yeah, it was awesome.
- [39:03]
D
When we were going to Greece. We'll stop in Sicily. Just so I should.
- [39:06]
B
Absolutely. Oh, my God. It was great.
- [39:08]
C
Now we, we don't do this for all guests on forward progress, but Carmen, I want you to know that your crate and barrel 80 ounce glass pitcher, the Impressions Adia, has been purchased from your wedding registry by 312Sports. No. Are you kidding? As a thank you for you being here with us today. So I just, I want you to think of us, I want you to think of 312 sporting forward progress. Every time you mix up a big thing of mimosas or.
- [39:42]
D
That's my drink.
- [39:43]
C
There you go. So just. That is. That is our love to you from 312Sports. May everything be happy and healthy in your world.
- [39:51]
D
Oh, my God. You guys are great. Thank you so much.
- [39:54]
B
Yeah, we really appreciate it. Now we just, we just finished our. Our six months of 312 sports and you've been a big part of our forward progress show. Love having you on the show. One of my favorite guests. I mean, just your knowledge and your personality that you bring to our podcast always makes it so much better. And I know any, any organization that works with football, covers football, studies football, talks about football, would be so lucky to have you as, as part of their, their programming. So you, you really bring the best out on us. And so we really appreciate your time as always on Ford.
- [40:25]
D
Oh, you guys bring the best out of me. So thank you so much. I really appreciate, I loved being part of this. And congratulations on six months. That's great. I'm so happy for y'. All. And I, I love, I love congratulations coming on. So thank you so much.
- [40:36]
B
Well, thank you. And hopefully we can catch up before you do go away and get married. We can talk about the draft stuff, so.
- [40:41]
D
Okay, that sounds good.
- [40:43]
B
Okay, you guys, you take care. All right, Car.
- [40:44]
C
Thank you. That is Carmen Vitale of Fox Sports and more, our guest here today on a fun edition of Forward Progress.
- [40:55]
B
Did you, did you catch the. She added to our roster.
- [40:58]
C
I missed it.
- [40:59]
B
A net savings.
- [41:01]
C
Oh, nice.
- [41:03]
B
A net savings.
- [41:04]
C
Yes, cap expert.
- [41:05]
B
Yes, cap expert. A net savings.
- [41:08]
C
Well, she works closely with Phil needs.
- [41:12]
B
They're in the same office, right? They share an office. They share an office. Phil Needs and a net savings.
- [41:18]
D
Yep.
- [41:19]
C
You don't, you don't really get better cap people than that, did you?
- [41:23]
B
I don't know if you saw this. Let me just pull this up here real quick before we, before we end the show. I saw this tweet. Okay. So this was from John. John Gruden. Oh, no.
- [41:32]
C
You're really going to give me a Jon Gruden tweet?
- [41:35]
B
Wrapped up our first QB class show of the year today with Vanderbilt's Diego Pavia. This kid is a true grinder and will shock a lot of people. Stay tuned.
- [41:48]
D
All right.
- [41:48]
C
I mean, look, I'm John Gruden, baby. All right, I'm here.
- [41:52]
B
Let's go.
- [41:53]
C
I am here to be shocked. That is all good. Bring it on when he's a starter.
- [41:59]
D
Week one.
- [42:00]
C
What's our bet?
- [42:02]
B
Steak dinner boom.
- [42:03]
C
I thought.
- [42:03]
B
Okay, yeah, I think it's steak dinner boom. Because we. You owed me one, then you won, so now we're even. It was.
- [42:09]
C
It was even. The tab reset.
- [42:11]
B
Yeah, reset. So now we're steak dinner boom on Diego Pavia taking a single snap in a regular season NFL game.
- [42:18]
C
There it is. And that will do it For Forward Progress, a 312-sports podcast about your Chicago Bears and the NFL. Thanks to our guest, Carmen Vitale for Progress is stopped.
- [42:39]
B
Forward Progress, a Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312 Sports.