Charles Tillman - a man of integrity and one of our favorite Chicago Bears | RIP Catherine O'Hara

Summary

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Forward Progress - A Chicago Bears Podcast

Episode: Charles Tillman - a man of integrity and one of our favorite Chicago Bears | RIP Catherine O'Hara

Date: January 30, 2026
Hosts: Dan Bernstein & Matt Abaticola

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Overview

In this wide-ranging episode, Dan Bernstein and Matt Abaticola bring deep analysis, candid reactions, and heartfelt moments as they explore major shakeups across the NFL, shifts within Chicago Bears management, and Charles Tillman's remarkable post-football journey. The episode features insightful discussion about integrity in sports and public service, league trends, and closes with a poignant reaction to the sudden passing of comedy legend Catherine O’Hara.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Minnesota Vikings Front Office Upheaval

[00:25] – [06:48]

• Breaking News: The Vikings unexpectedly fired GM Kwesi Adofo-Mensah, reportedly due to conflict with head coach Kevin O’Connell, centered on the mishandling of their quarterback situation.
• Quarterback Drama:
  • Vikings moved on from Sam Darnold and Daniel Jones, giving J.J. McCarthy (who barely saw the field due to injuries) the keys, raising questions about judgment at the top.
  • “There's absolutely no way they could have seen enough from JJ McCarthy… just about being available on the field for 17 games, and he couldn't even do that.” – Matt [02:44]
• Implications for Head Coach & Organization:
  • Unresolved tension over quarterback preferences possibly made coexistence impossible.
  • “Maybe it just… curdles over time, like a marriage or something. You’ve got too much tension, can’t do this.” – Dan [06:48]

2. Chicago Bears Personnel Moves

[03:21] – [05:47]

• Ian Cunningham’s Departure: Bears assistant GM leaves for a GM role with the Falcons. Complications over whether his new title merits the Bears compensatory draft picks (“splitting hairs” over who really holds decision-making power).
• Changing Power Structures in Team Front Offices:
  • Parallels drawn between the Bears’ hierarchy and Cunningham’s new position.
  • “Maybe this was more of an opportunity for Ian Cunningham to have more control and have more authority, despite having someone above him.” – Matt [05:31]

3. NFC North Chaos and League-Wide Instability

[08:00] – [10:44]

• The Bears' division rivals—the Packers, Lions, and Vikings—all face drama but somehow finish with winning records.
• NFL Impatience: Increasing speed of firings and curveballs for front offices and coaches, especially during the Senior Bowl job fair.
• “We are at that stage of the hiring and firing cycle until it all just reinvigorated today with Kwesi Adofo-Mensah being summarily canned… The league is so impatient.” – Dan [09:58]

4. NFL Coaching Carousel Updates

[10:44] – [12:57]

• Notable staff changes across the league, including Nathaniel Hackett to the Dolphins as QB coach, new OCs for the Eagles and Bills.
• Minnesota to be run by longtime NFL exec Rob Brzezinski until a post-draft GM hire (likely “an old-school scout type”).
  • “That's perfect for him to come in after the draft is over then. That's ideal.” – Matt [12:26]

5. League Trends: Special Teams and Attendance

[14:25] – [17:31]

• Kickoff Rule Change:
  • Return rate jumps from 32.8% to 74.5% due to the new dynamic kickoff rules and field position incentives.
  • “There were 1,157 more kickoff returns this year than last. 137 fewer punts. Offenses started with better field position...” – Dan [15:25]
  • “I like it. I think it’s been productive… nothing’s going to be as good as watching Devin Hester back in the day.” – Matt [16:16]
• Bears Stadium Woes:
  • Bears rank last in NFL home attendance, underscoring ongoing disadvantage from not owning their own stadium and missed revenue opportunities.
  • “One of the most passionate fan bases in all of sports, and they're continuing to be last in the league in attendance.” – Matt [17:31]

6. Charles Tillman’s Second Act: Integrity in Action

[23:27] – [29:30]

• Dan Pompeii’s Article Recap:
  • Highlights Charles “Peanut” Tillman’s not only unique style as a player (“always a deep thinker, never just the easy football answer”), but his purposeful work after football as an FBI agent.
• Tillman’s Law Enforcement Career:
  • Joined FBI after retiring with a master’s in Homeland Security; worked on high-risk cases.
  • “He actually did it and worked as an FBI agent on a Safe streets task force...”
• Principled Resignation:
  • Tillman quit in protest when expected to participate in what felt like racial profiling and political targeting during an immigration crackdown.
  • “To me, Tillman said, it felt political… investigations are supposed to take months, not minutes.” – Dan paraphrasing Tillman [27:40]
  • “Stepping away from his second career was possible only because of his first career… There are a lot of people in the FBI that aren’t happy with how the organization is being run... but they can't quit like I did.” – Dan [28:38]
• Broader Reflections:
  • Matt and Dan lament the state of law enforcement culture that attracts people to carry out dehumanizing tasks for political reasons.
  • “The number of people that just could not wait to get involved with that, to carry out that hatred and discrimination… that's what's disappointing.” – Matt [30:34]
  • “If you want to basically think you're playing Call of Duty, but for real against people you can dehumanize, here's a badge, and go ahead and do it.” – Dan [31:00]

7. Personal Anecdotes: The Human Side of the Bears

[31:31] – [33:58]

• Matt’s memories of working with Tillman on his charitable foundation and events.
  • “It's always, always, always great memories and great thoughts of being able to volunteer that time and work with Charles and his family.” – Matt [32:31]
• Dan shares a touching memory about bringing his young son to meet Charles Tillman and Alex Brown at Bourbonnais, emphasizing their kindness and their impact as “superheroes out of pads.”
  • “His eyes were just so big… standing there with Charles Tillman and Alex Brown… it's something that I know he remembers.” – Dan [32:54]
• Both hosts reminisce fondly about Alex Brown's warmth and approachability.

8. In Memoriam: Catherine O'Hara

[34:05] – [35:16]

• Both react in real time to the news that Emmy-winning actress and comedian Catherine O'Hara has died at age 71.
  • “Are you kidding me? Really? This is what we get on a Friday… now Catherine O’Hara dies. Emmy winning actor and comedian. That sucks.” – Dan [34:13]
  • Hosts recall her foundational impact on SCTV, Schitt’s Creek, and comedy.
  • “Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant comedian. Absolutely brilliant. Could—I mean, triple threat comedian.” – Dan [34:38]

9. Lighter Moments & Podcast Nostalgia

[36:26] – [39:00]

• Sean Payton’s ill-timed “joke” about Bo Nix’s injury history sparks a brief debate about what constitutes humor in NFL press conferences.
• Comic callbacks and classic sports radio storytime, including on-air hijinks and fond memories of former colleagues.

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Notable Quotes

• On the Vikings’ GM firing:
  • “And now they somehow have to unwind it.” – Dan Bernstein [02:10]
• On Bears personnel and compensation:
  • “It sounds somewhat arbitrary and capricious, but I'm not going to go to the mat to argue that one.” – Dan [04:28]
• On NFL hiring chaos:
  • “There's people showing up there and hanging out in hotel lobbies who don't have jobs. It's almost like the, the winter meetings as this is all going on.” – Dan [09:30]
• On Bears’ attendance problem:
  • “The Bears don't own their own stadium and that they're, they're stuck in this mode... Another opportunity for revenue to be driven... and the Bears continue to be last in the league.” – Matt [17:00]
• On Charles Tillman:
  • “He was very open, always … not being that big a football fan... It was just his job... And apparently the job he always wanted was to be in law enforcement.” – Dan [23:43]
• On why Tillman left the FBI:
  • “To me, Tillman said, it felt political… investigations are supposed to take months, not minutes.” – Dan [27:59]
• On integrity and privilege:
  • “There are a lot of people in the FBI that aren't happy… but they can't quit like I did. That's what he said. It's too bad. I'm sure he's right.” – Dan [28:38]
• On law enforcement recruiting:
  • “If you want to basically think you're playing Call of Duty, but for real against people you can dehumanize, here's a badge, and go ahead and do it.” – Dan [31:00]
• On Catherine O'Hara:
  • “For those of us for whom SCTV was foundational. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant comedian.” – Dan [34:38]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment Description | Start | End | |--------------------------------------------------------------|-----------|-----------| | Vikings GM firing, QB drama | 00:25 | 06:48 | | Bears’ Ian Cunningham to Falcons, compensatory picks debate | 03:21 | 05:47 | | NFC North and NFL instability, Senior Bowl | 08:00 | 10:44 | | NFL coaching carousel, Vikings interim plans | 10:44 | 12:57 | | Special teams rule changes, Bears stadium/attendance woes | 14:25 | 17:31 | | Charles Tillman's FBI career and resignation | 23:27 | 29:30 | | Broader commentary on policing and integrity | 29:30 | 31:31 | | Personal stories about Tillman, Bears players | 31:31 | 33:58 | | Remembering Catherine O’Hara | 34:05 | 35:16 |

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Tone & Style

• The episode is candid, humorous in places, sometimes somber (notably reacting to losses and social issues), with authentic Midwestern sports radio energy.
• The hosts blend sharp analysis (“split hairs over compensation”) with irreverent, relatable fandom, and a strong sense of sports as both entertainment and social microcosm.

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For Listeners

This episode is a must-listen for Bears fans, NFL junkies, and anyone who respects athletes with a sense of mission beyond the field. Deep, honest, with powerful moments on integrity—especially in the Charles Tillman segment—plus sharp, timely football commentary and a fitting tribute to a beloved comedian.

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Transcript

[Dan Bernstein]

I mean, if you're a Bears fan, you're thinking forward Progress. Come on. 10. 219.

[Matt Abaticola]

219. Forward progress. Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312 Sports.

[Dan Bernstein]

We give you forward progress here on 312 Sports. And I didn't really think we'd go into this with some massive news, but we are learning now that it's a wild day going on in Minnesota because if sports wise, of course, I don't want to that to ring oddly in your ears, but the fact that the morning started with the twins parting ways with Derek Falvi, and now the Vikings have fired Quasi Adolfo Mensah, their general manager. And we're just getting news of this as we speak, but this is really not something anybody saw coming. But I guess a lot of some of the inside reporting has to do with his worsening relationship, a deteriorating relationship with Kevin o'. Connell. And I don't think it would surprise anybody if this is very simply about getting the quarterback wrong.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, it sounds like there's two sides to the quarterback camp. KOC and then the general manager. And it appears that the head coach has won out in this. In this particular battle. Yeah, this was a complete surprise. Well, you know, it's hard when you, when you look at what the Minnesota Vikings had in that quarterback room at the end of last year with Sam Darnold, who won 14 games, Daniel Jones, who took the Colts to a great first half of the season, and then they decide to part ways with both those experienced quarterbacks and go with J.J. mcCarthy, of course, sat out his first year with injuries and struggled for most of the year to even stay on the field and play.

[Dan Bernstein]

And I understand what they were doing. I understand why they were doing it because of the, when you make that commitment to someone and then you have to understand that the quarterback contract, like the situation the Bears are in, is your chance to win is before. Before you pay the big money to that quarterback. But they, I guess they didn't see enough from McCarthy this year at all to make them think that it was the right move or that it was worth it to make the commitment and the investment, and now they somehow have to unwind it.

[Matt Abaticola]

Well, there's absolutely no way they could have seen enough from JJ McCarthy. And you have the experience of what Kevin O' Connell has been able to do with quarterbacks, and then to let Sam Darnold go and let Daniel Jones go and to see how Jason McCarthy again struggled to even stay on the field. Dan it's not like we're not even talking about his performance yet. Just about being available on the field for 17 games and he couldn't even do that. And I get it. Injuries happen. But it was a total train wreck. And on top of it, they still finished with a winning record.

[Dan Bernstein]

And Adolfo Mensah was at the Senior Bowl. He's down there with everybody.

[Matt Abaticola]

So he was launched there. Is that where.

[Dan Bernstein]

I don't know exactly. I'm like, I'm just seeing the headlines. At least he. People saw him at the Senior Bowl. That is wild. And now we're wondering. The other thing that we were going to talk about today is that Bears assistant general manager Ian Cunningham, who has long been interviewed and rumored and in the mix for these other jobs, finally took another job. And it's not as far as the NFL concerned is concerned the fact that he's now the general manager of the Falcons, they're not considering that a promotion in a way that would allow the Bears to recoup draft picks.

[Matt Abaticola]

Right. In order for the Bears to get draft picks in return, he would have to be the top football man, which he's not, as Matt Ryan is the president of the Atlanta Falcons, which they would label him as the top football guy there. So Ian Cunningham not the top guy. The Bears don't get compensation. It sounds kind of shady to me.

[Dan Bernstein]

But, you know, whatever the title, I mean, he's being called a general manager.

[Matt Abaticola]

But it's not the top guy.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, that's. It sounds like it's splitting hairs to me because I'm sure you can go through some of these other cases where compensatory draft picks have been awarded and then debate whether or not there is somebody above him who may or may not make a football decision. It sounds somewhat arbitrary and capricious, but I'm not going to. I'm not going to go to the mat to argue that one. No, it's. You wonder, though, if, and usually you think that agents know everything because, boy, this is such a time for agents, considering all the turnover and everything that's going on. But if you're Ian Cunningham, if. Do you think that there was any possibility that he might have been tipped off to, hey, you know, wait a day before you take this job with the Falcons, it's hitting everybody like a ton of bricks. I wonder if it certainly is possible.

[Matt Abaticola]

We don't know what his reaction to it was, but clearly if he was tipped off, didn't care one of the Falcons job, and I know he has a relationship with Matt Ryan. So maybe that was the deciding factor to it all.

[Dan Bernstein]

And I think.

[Matt Abaticola]

And who knows, how involved is Matt Ryan going to be?

[Dan Bernstein]

We don't know.

[Matt Abaticola]

Maybe they don't know, but maybe he's. Maybe he's just putting people in place and go out and do your job. And maybe this was more of an opportunity for Ian Cunningham to have more control and have more authority, despite having someone above him. Similar situation like Ryan Poles has with Kevin Warren above him.

[Dan Bernstein]

And that is. These are interesting times.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah. That's a. That's a shocker, though. That's totally unexpected again, for a team that struggled with the quarterback. And they still. They still finished with an above.500 record. They finished nine and eight. And I think the biggest issue was just being able to keep J.J. mcCarthy on the field. So, like. But if that's the case now, if so, I mean. I mean, are we. Are we assuming that Kevin o' Connell wanted to keep one of the other quarterbacks? And if that's the case, how does your head coach coexist now with this guy? He didn't want.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's a great question. Or maybe it is simply after the fact that. And the totality of the evidence suggests terrible judgment.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

And they have to make a commitment at some point that maybe it just. It was untenable that they could not coexist because OConnell's like, Look, I'm doing this. I know this is your guy.

[Matt Abaticola]

I know we.

[Dan Bernstein]

Even if it started with the best of intentions, and I think we sort of paint these things as this guy against this guy, but sometimes he just curdles or over time, like a, you know, like a marriage or something, maybe just said, look, this is. We've got too much tension here. We can't do this. That you've asked me to coach a team where. Where I have to watch these people succeed elsewhere. Or maybe he was asked and they said, look, Kevin, what do you want to do? He said what he wanted to do. They said, you're not in charge. We're making this decision. He said, okay, I understand. And then it got to be too much. We'll find out.

[Matt Abaticola]

We're not going to find out right.

[Dan Bernstein]

Away, but we will.

[Matt Abaticola]

It could also have gone the other way, too, where there was some tension and conflict between the GM and the coach. And maybe, maybe Kevin said, hey, we drafted jj. This is the guy I wanted. He's the guy I believe in moving forward. We don't need those other guys. Now. That was proved out to be wrong. At least for this last season. And maybe Koc wasn't all about having McCarthy be the guy this year, or I'm sorry, maybe the GM wasn't and it just, it kind of boiled over and Kevin o' Connell won out there. So we don't know where the sides, where they, where they stood as far as the quarterbacks were concerned. But I'm sure it will come out more and I'm sure we can even talk to our guy Phil up there and get more info.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, look at the turmoil in the Bears division right now. Look at everything that's happening around them.

[Matt Abaticola]

Well, you have Matt LaFleur, who was, I mean, people were.

[Dan Bernstein]

You fired him.

[Matt Abaticola]

Fan base one. I fired him. I wanted to fire him. Yeah, Fan base wanted to fire him. And then you've seen all the things that have come out since, since then, all the failures under Matt LaFleur and the Packers. What, what they've lost, what they've done in a negative fashion under Matt LaFleur. You have controversy in, in Detroit with Dan Campbell firing his oc, hiring a new oc, taking over and making the play calling. They, they obviously missed the playoffs when they were a favorite to go to the super bowl before the season started. Now Minnesota is a complete mess yet again. I will say all three of those teams, and this just shows the talent of the rosters finished above.500, which is crazy. I mean, you, you normally don't have A team finishing above.500 with A, with a winning record. And all the drama and all the.

[Dan Bernstein]

Controversy taking place wild times in the NFL. It's in reading Brad Biggs's 10 Thoughts from the Senior Bowl. And you'll be reading, as I always mentioned, when Brad Biggs puts out his 10 things. This will be in your, your or various Tribune. Wherever you find Tribune content, they'll use it for the next few days. But just talking about everything that's happening in the league and the number of firings that then necessitate the number of moves to fill out these staffs. And how many jobs start to open up as the Senior bowl is going on, which is really the big job fair for coaches anyway. There's people showing up there and hanging out in hotel lobbies who don't have jobs. It's almost like the, the winter meetings as this is all going on. And here we are at the stage of which people you've never heard of are getting interviews and jobs. And even for those of us who cover the NFL on a daily basis, there are all these names you got to look up like, okay, who's this guy? Who's this 26 year old or this 32 year old and where this guy from college or this guy from this. We are at that stage of some of these, the hiring and firing cycle until it all just reinvigorated today with Kwesi Godolpho Mensah being summarily canned and what that's now gonna start. Who knows how much else in that front office is going to turn over now that it's just the league is so impatient and I'm not saying it's necessarily a, a bad thing. I'm not judging the level of impatience. It just times are very different on the ownership level. Very, very, very different.

[Matt Abaticola]

Well, one name that you do know is Nathaniel Hackett, who is now moving back to the or going to the Miami Dolphins as a QB coach.

[Dan Bernstein]

Perfect job for Nathaniel Hackett. Does that mean that they now are going to bring in Aaron Rodgers?

[Matt Abaticola]

Well, the offensive coordinator is Bobby Slowik in Miami. I don't know if you, if you knew that, but yeah, Nathaniel Hackett back in the NFL with the Dolphins as a QB coach. Aaron Rodgers, you know, we'll see how that works out with he and Mike McCarthy in Pittsburgh. But yeah, you know, go down to Miami and get down there, you weirdo.

[Dan Bernstein]

As long as Nathaniel Hackett doesn't have to actually coach a game, he's fine.

[Matt Abaticola]

They'll be fine. Just as a QB coach. Eagles hired offensive coordinator Sean Manning, took him away from Maine. Manion was the, the Packers Green Bay coach, The packers quarterback coach. Jesus. So he's the new Eagles oc. So after how many people they interviewed for that job and people pulled their name out of that, that running. Pete Carmichael is the offense coordinator in Buffalo. Apparently very familiar with who's the head coach there in Buffalo. Brady.

[Dan Bernstein]

Joe Brady.

[Matt Abaticola]

Joe Brady. So apparently they have a relationship. Carmichael has spent the last couple of years as a senior offensive assistant with Denver under Sean Payton. So he goes to Buffalo, become the new offensive coordinator.

[Dan Bernstein]

And this Diana Rossini says their search for a new GM in Minnesota will go down after the draft. Expect a pivot, likely the opposite of what they just had. I'd expect an older school type with a strong scouting background, someone rooted in traditional evaluation and personnel building.

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh, that's perfect for him to come in after the draft is over then. That's ideal. Okay, yeah, this is. Yeah, this guy's an old school scout and can tell he can evaluate talent like no other. But we'll bring him in after we do the scouting and all the Evaluating of college talent.

[Dan Bernstein]

She adds that veteran NFL exec Rob Brzezinski will run the Vikings operations through the NFL draft. Here's the statement from the Wilfs, not the milfs. That's a different statement. We didn't get a statement from the milfs.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, the milfs have their one o' clock press conference.

[Dan Bernstein]

A different statement. And that's. That's good. What was the place in Naperville where we used to do the show that always like at 5 o' clock every day, all the milfs would come in and drink their chardonnay. You know the. You know the bar I'm talking about? Yeah. Right after. Right after work. It was just filled with moms. Anyway.

[Matt Abaticola]

Anyway. Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

Anyway. This is the statement from the Wilfs. Following our annual end of season organizational meetings over the last several weeks, and after careful consideration, we've decided it's in the best interest of the team to move forward with new leadership of our football operations. These decisions are never easy. We're grateful for Kwesi's contributions and commitment to the organization over the past four years and wish him and his family the best in the future. Effective immediately, Executive vice president of football operations Rob Brzezinski will lead our operations through the 2026 NFL Draft. Rob brings tremendous credibility and experience, understands our roster and has the ab to build consensus and rely on the expertise of our personnel and coaches. After the draft, we intend to conduct a thorough search to identify our next general manager. Building a team that can contend for championships drives us every day. We look forward to bringing our fans the success they so deserve. All right. That's pretty much a straight up firing.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

I said, why now?

[Matt Abaticola]

Well, yeah, we'll see. We'll see if there's more to the story. Outside of football too, who knows? He just never know anymore.

[Dan Bernstein]

I don't know. And this. The twins just got rid of their guy too. And after he was the. The centerpiece of something that they just did. I can't imagine if you're. If you're our guy. Phil Mackey right now or Patrick Royce right now. What. What's going on with everything else that's happening in Minneapolis and then the sports people are now. Oh my goodness. Yikes. Talk about the center. Everything, right? Wow. Well, here are some numbers for you. You like numbers. I know you do. You usually bring them to me. How. What percentage of kickoffs do you think were returned this year? I'll just tell you. Last year. Last year, 32.8% of kickoffs were returned. And this Year they use the. This new dynamic kickoff that was, that was implemented last year.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah. 32% last year.

[Dan Bernstein]

32.8 last year were returned.

[Matt Abaticola]

I think there was a lot. This year I'm going to say, let's double it and say 65.

[Dan Bernstein]

74.5% of kickoffs were returned. Okay. And what happened in 2025? The kickoffs were moved out to the 35 yard line to encourage kickers to keep the ball in the field of play. That caused the increase in returns. There were 1157 more kickoff returns this year than last. Wow. 137 fewer punts. Offenses started with better field position and were more likely to get the ball into at least field goal range. I would say that also has to do with every kicker being able to kick it from 60.

[Matt Abaticola]

Right. Except ours.

[Dan Bernstein]

Except the Bears. Yes. I'm not mad at him though. No, no, not at all. No, not at all. Interesting stuff. So my guess is they're going to keep it as is.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, I would think so. I like it. I think it's. I think it's been productive. I mean, nothing's going to be as good as watching Devin Hester back in the day and those returns with those massive collisions and guys getting destroyed.

[Dan Bernstein]

But you wouldn't see him now. You wouldn't see him now because they just kick it out of bounds, right?

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, you're just not going to see that.

[Dan Bernstein]

So kick it out of the back of the end zone.

[Matt Abaticola]

I mean, no, it's good. I know. I like it. I think, I think it's. I think it's good. And that's great. Wow. 74%. So it's more than double from last year. Very good. I saw one number, I'll throw this at you. That it had home attendance by team. And you know who ranked very last in the NFL and home attendance numbers.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, this also has to do with stadium size, right?

[Matt Abaticola]

Well, yeah, of course it does, Dan. And that is your Chicago Bears.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, they just. They would have fit more people in.

[Matt Abaticola]

There, but they could, which is just terrible. I mean, it's just, it's. And that's one of the things that goes back to one of the things that I absolutely hate in all of sports, that the Bears don't own their own stadium and that they're, they're stuck in this mode. And I don't want to get into the whole stadium thing again, but just once again, another opportunity for, you know, for revenue to be driven by having a, an actual real big boy NFL stadium. And the Bears continue To be last in the league. One of the most passionate fan bases in all of sports, and they're continuing to be last in the league in attendance.

[Dan Bernstein]

Amazing.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah. While a team like the Bulls that just wants to be around 500 and not do anything for the postseason continues to just sell out and sell out and get numbers.

[Dan Bernstein]

They know what they do. And what the Bulls do is they.

[Matt Abaticola]

Medieval Times.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's Medieval Times or basketball.

[Matt Abaticola]

I love it.

[Dan Bernstein]

They give people a fun basketball show. That's probably too much of an insult, but it's a hyperbolic way.

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh, to Medieval Times. Yeah. They're good people there. Oh, it's fun.

[Dan Bernstein]

And I know that for years ago, they were an advertiser at the score. And we had one of the Knights who came in in full regalia to do a voiceover, one of the actors they had. That sword is heavy as shit.

[Matt Abaticola]

You would like it. It's a fun. They put on a fun show. But more importantly, you get, like, a giant drumstick. You get to eat with your hands. So you'd be all over that.

[Dan Bernstein]

My favorite things in the world is that barbecued turkey drumstick. Yeah. I would always. Great America. There was the place by the log flume ride.

[Matt Abaticola]

Okay.

[Dan Bernstein]

If you get to. We used to go to Great America occasionally with the kids. We would get there at opening. We'd, like, sit in the parking lot for the doors to open so you could run in there and just have your way with the place. And they cook the turkey legs overnight, and you can get one like one of the ones. They take it out of the foil as it's been cooking all night, and it makes your day. It was so good, I was almost weeping. I just wanted to sit there and eat it and let the. Let Beth run around with both kids and do whatever they want to do. I was in heaven.

[Matt Abaticola]

I can't remember. I think we've talked about this. Maybe the Renaissance Fair. You've never gone to that either. Okay. So you get the giant drumstick there as well.

[Dan Bernstein]

Of course. Yeah, I get to. And that's the right of your alley, man.

[Matt Abaticola]

I love that.

[Dan Bernstein]

And then there's the guy in the stocks who insults people and you throw tomatoes at his face. Yeah.

[Matt Abaticola]

So, yeah, they've. They've scaled that back a little bit. As far as the insults and language are concerned, it's more family friendly now than maybe probably what it was when you.

[Dan Bernstein]

Oh, we were back there in the heyday, and Jason's like, they're throwing tomatoes at that guy. So he. I said, you should do it. He gets in line and he goes down there. And this was when he was. He was. He was 8, so he was already pitching an 8U and he was a little guy, and the guy was just kind of really, kind of giving it to him. And he. Jason's smiling, and Jason wound up and put a fastball right on the guy's forehead. It was good.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, it was really entertaining. Even if he didn't do the tomatoes, you just stand around and listen. It was very entertaining.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Abaticola]

That was always the best.

[Dan Bernstein]

I love that. I just remember being. It was so hot. It was like 95 out, and it was just everything. We were walking into the little shops and stuff where they had all the swords and the capes and the things. I love that.

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh, no, I always love going. We. Natalie and I will still. I mean, we will go, just the two of us, because the people watching is worth the heat and the. And the price of admission. It's just. It's amazing.

[Dan Bernstein]

The only thing that bugged me was when we did the archery. The bow was bad. It was just kind of, you know, it wasn't any fun. I was.

[Matt Abaticola]

It made me want to. Wasn't like Camp North Star, right? No.

[Dan Bernstein]

Hell no. I.

[Matt Abaticola]

They had.

[Dan Bernstein]

I was good. That's where I learned. I was actually a pretty good archer back in the day.

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh, I know. That's why we used to call you Robin Hood back in the day.

[Dan Bernstein]

I. And look, let the record show silver medalist at Club Med Xstapa, Mexico, in the archery competition. I should have won, but this French Canadian guy named Laurent outshot me.

[Matt Abaticola]

How old were you?

[Dan Bernstein]

I was 18. 17 or 18.

[Matt Abaticola]

And you're with your parents, right? They made you fly coach home as a punishment.

[Dan Bernstein]

Can you believe it? Yeah. I'll never forget it. So awful. How dare they. Because I didn't take gold in archery. God darn it. They know Stickler. Yeah. They know how to get to me.

[Matt Abaticola]

They know how to know caramels and smokes for you for a week.

[Dan Bernstein]

They know how to make it hurt. Well, the caramel was for her, not for me. I know.

[Matt Abaticola]

I know.

[Dan Bernstein]

The car was to stick my mouth shut.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah. The caramels and cigarettes at the same time. That was always hard simultaneously.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's. Well, I got the cigarette smoke whether I was smoking it or not.

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh, we all did.

[Dan Bernstein]

Just sitting in the car, sitting around in the kitchen, windows up, packs and ashtray overflowing. You better believe it.

[Matt Abaticola]

That's funny.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, it was like Bernie Mac's character in Bad Santa.

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh, One after the other.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah. The department store detective. Do you remember his ashtray?

[Matt Abaticola]

Yes.

[Dan Bernstein]

Oh yeah.

[Matt Abaticola]

That was like the ashtray. My dad's car.

[Dan Bernstein]

The ultimate. The owner, the one time owner of the Rockford Lightning. Wayne Timpy Sky Point that. I've never seen anybody smoke like that in my life. You'd go to his office like he, he, it's, it was hysteric. He smoked generic smokes. Alpine Light was the name of his smoke. Never even heard of him. You ever heard of Alpine Light?

[Matt Abaticola]

Never have. No.

[Dan Bernstein]

Wow. It was like a, it was a generic discount menthol smoke. And this dude was one after the other after the other after the other after the other. He's dead now, of course. Yeah.

[Matt Abaticola]

What from?

[Dan Bernstein]

I know when, when he probably got that and they're just like, oh, of course. Yes, yes. Well, he's. What do you mean he's. I didn't know he was alive. Yeah, he used to smoke all the time and then he would, he would drink and he'd yell at the referees. You know, he liked being an owner. Good. He was always nice to me.

[Matt Abaticola]

That's great.

[Dan Bernstein]

Always very nice to me. Where were we? We were talking about what's going on in the NFL and do you want to get to this piece about Charles Tillman? I do.

[Matt Abaticola]

I read that yesterday. Dan Pompeii.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's good stuff. Good stuff.

[Matt Abaticola]

About, about Peanut. Good man. To Charles Tillman. One of the, one of the best guys I, I got to meet and got to know a little bit during my time in, in, in sports radio. Very nice guy.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah. And, and a, a deep thinker. The thing about Charles Tillman, he's one of these guys, you ask him a question, you never knew where the answer was going to go. And you were always sort of pleasantly surprised with how open minded he was to consider things other than just the easy football response that you get to a question. And I always loved this about him. He was very open, always when he played Charlie, and he still is. But Charles Tillman was always open about not being that big a football fan. He was into basketball and he was really good at football. He just wasn't as a fan. It wasn't his thing. It's just his job. And apparently the job he always wanted was to be in law enforcement. And this is because of his upbringing, because of his father who was in the military and exposed him to all kinds of interesting things. And he, ever since he was a little kid, this is something that Charles Tillman was, wanted to do and he had the opportunity to do it. He was privileged enough because of his football career. When he retired at age 36, he immediately joined the FBI. And it wasn't just a bit. It wasn't just a little thing like getting the wings in the cockpit from the pilot. He actually did it and. And worked as an FBI agent on a Safe streets task force. Worked out of an FBI building here in downtown Chicago. And according to this piece by Pompey, said he researched drug trafficking, human trafficking, robberies, murders, organized crime, racketeering and more. Working the streets, tried to get a handle on a suspect's pattern. He made arrests. He was a firearms and tactical instructor, teaching others to shoot and engage in close quarters combat. But he quit. And last January, he quit because it says Tillman and the other FBI agents in Chicago received word that White House border czar Tom Homan and TV personality Dr. Phil McGraw were coming to town with ice to lead a crackdown on illegal immigration. There would be targeted arrests, participation from the FBI, the DEA, the ATF, the Border Patrol and U.S. marshals expected. Tillman said. It was like we need everybody outside. We want everybody standing guard. They wanted us to make arrests. It wasn't just about going after violent individuals. It was, there's some guys working on a house outside. Let's go swap them up and it'll count for the quota system. To me, Tillman said, it felt political. Tillman has long believed the US has an immigration problem, but he thought it was wrong to harass people because they looked a certain way. Racial profiling. He had a deep personal understanding and the way he understood it, investigations are supposed to take months, not minutes. And he said his inner voice was telling him that how he would be remembered means something. And not long after he resigned from the FBI. And the way that Pompeii has written this, this alternates between that story and his football story. And this is sort of long form, magazine style, what they used to call a weekender piece here. And it goes through everything that he learned while studying for his master's degree in Homeland Security management and why he took the job, how he was teased about all of his shoes that he had from his Nike deal. They called him Trigger Mike because of Will Smith's character in Bad Boys who Didn't need to Be Doing Dirty work. And he mentions helping to liberate a woman who was held as a sex slave. Tracking down a bank robber who had prior convictions. Talks about his difficult day on the job at in Highland park on the 4th of July, where he was deployed for the Active shooter, recovering bodies. And he figured that. He said it, said it was time to move on when Tillman thought it was too difficult to perform his duties with respect. And he mentions that stepping away from his second career was possible only because of his first career. He said there are a lot of people in the FBI. He said there are a lot of people in the FBI that aren't happy with how the organization is being run by Kash Patel, but they can't quit like I did. That's what he said. It's too bad. I'm sure he's right. And as we're seeing people tasked with essentially being one person's personal violent revenge force, personal security force, personal vengeance army, I feel terrible for people who aren't in a position to be able to step down or be able to. To not be part of that, be able to not be able to take the stand that he took, that he was in a position to do so. But he did. He did. And for that, Charles Tillman, beyond football, has. Has immense respect for me.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah. And in reading that, what hit me was the flip side of that, Dan. And the number of individuals knowing what is taking place, knowing what the purpose of Border Patrol and ICE is right now, it is very political. And the thousands of people who. Who could not wait to sign up for something like that, that's what's really disturbing and really upsetting and it really hurts my heart for this country that that's the job. Here's the job outlined for you. And the number of people that just could not wait to get involved with that, to carry out that hatred and that discrimination. Now, again, we said this the other day, I agree there is an immigration issue in this country. There has been. And there are ways to deal with it that are legal, that are humane, and this is just not that. And the number of people that want to be a part of that, knowing exactly what it is, that's what's disappointing.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, that's what hurts. That's also why people are getting killed. When you say it's what hurts, it's what's. And the things that are being said as. And there's a growing record of just how vile some of the comments have been by the people who are purported to protect and serve. And it's the opposite of that, and they know it. And that's what the recruiting pitch essentially is. If you're. And the pitch has been, here's a little money, and if you want to basically think you're playing Call of Duty, but for real against people you can dehumanize. Here's a badge, and go ahead and do it. I heard someone say it the other day. I believe it's in one of the protest songs where they're saying it's too scared to be in the military, too dumb to be a cop. Mm, I've heard that. Yep.

[Matt Abaticola]

But, yeah, Charles Tillman. I was fortunate enough to. To work with Charles on his. His foundation, his charity. And I got the emcee several of his events. And it was really cool to. To be around him, get to know him, get to know his family a little bit. Just a really, really good guy. 1. One time we did an event out at Kings, the bowling entertainment center out in Rosemont. One of his charity events was held there. And so we, we went in one day with, with the kids. And on the wall, they have like a whole wall of like, celebrity photos. People have been there. And I certainly don't consider myself a celebrity, but I'm on that wall with Charles Tillman. So he's the celebrity. I happen to be the guy in the picture with Charles after one of the events. And sure enough, you know, I'm like, I got. I got all four boys. And I'm like, hey, you guys know that is. That's Charles Tillman right there. The Chicago Bears. Like, oh, dad, that's you. Yeah, that's me. So it's always, it's always, always, always great memories and great thoughts of being able to. To volunteer that time and work with Charles and his family in his charity event. And then there's a picture of it up at King. So it's really, really cool that I.

[Dan Bernstein]

Can show kids that.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, it's fun.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah. One of the times, years ago when we had. He was sitting in the trailer that we had in Bourbon A. He and Alex Brown were there. I think they were doing like a something at 6 o' clock or maybe. You know what it was? I think it was Bears All Access.

[Matt Abaticola]

Probably with Zach maybe.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, they were coming in to do that and we were finishing up our day. And it's when I think Jason was 4 or 5. I remember, and I just, I brought him into the, to the RV to meet those guys. They could not have been nice. I remember just how big his eyes were. And he's like standing there with Charles Tillman and Alex Brown. And he was, he was just so nice. And it's something that I know he remembers. And that was. I just remember having a big smile on my face and seeing that, because when they're out There watching these, these impossibly enormous, speedy football players run around to then see them just out of pads. And being normal is always a reminder that they're not. You know, there are some who are. Who are closer to superheroes than others. I'll say. Yeah.

[Matt Abaticola]

And another guy you mentioned there, Alex Brown, another one of my favorites that I was able to interact with and meet and see a bunch of times on the football field, off the football field. Just could not have been a nicer guy to Alex Brown. I just, I always, always loved seeing Alex. Absolute sweetheart guy.

[Dan Bernstein]

Oh, no. I, I just saw a piece of news cross here. Did you see this?

[Matt Abaticola]

What is it?

[Dan Bernstein]

Catherine O' Hara just died. No. Yeah. This is from the AP.

[Matt Abaticola]

Really?

[Dan Bernstein]

71. Are you kidding me? Really? Did this is what we get on a Friday to with everything else that's going on. And now Catherine o' Hara dies. Emmy winning actor and comedian. Oh yeah, man, that sucks. I'm great.

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh yeah. Home Alone and Schitt's Creek and just sctv. Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

Oh my God. For those of us for whom SCTV was foundational. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant comedian. Absolutely brilliant. Could. I mean, triple threat comedian.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah. And she was, she was. She just did the Apple series, the Studio with, With Seth Rogen and she's fantastic in that. She's great, great in everything she did.

[Dan Bernstein]

What the hell?

[Matt Abaticola]

That's terrible. That's awful.

[Dan Bernstein]

What a week. I don't want to end on that.

[Matt Abaticola]

All right, well, I'll end. I got something for you.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, give me. Would you give me something that I need? I need somebody. We can't. That can't be the last.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, no, that's not the end thing. All right. You know how they always say that, that there's a little bit of truth behind every joke?

[Dan Bernstein]

Of course. More than a little. Yes.

[Matt Abaticola]

So the Denver Broncos saga continues. You heard what Sean Payton said, right?

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, let's.

[Matt Abaticola]

Sean Payton made a joke and here was his joke. This was his joke, Dan. His joke was. If I would have known that, referring to the previous injuries and surgeries on Bo Nix's ankle, if I would have known that, I wouldn't have drafted you. Hahaha. That's just a joke. That's my joke for you. And then he goes on and is asked about it and he was like, well, I was joking around. You know, jokingly said this. Well, Sean, not much of a joke there, pal. So that apparently is what. Is what got Bo Nick so heated and angry and why he shouldn't talk about my surgeries. He doesn't know how many I've had or what I've had done. He doesn't know. That's. That's what prompted the anger, angered response from Beau Nix when Sean Payton made a joke and said, had I known that, I wouldn't have drafted you.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay, that makes sense.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yes, it does.

[Dan Bernstein]

That makes a little more sense then. Because if you say if I'd known that, I would've drafted you. Am I right?

[Matt Abaticola]

All right, thank you, ladies. I'll be here all week.

[Dan Bernstein]

Oh, try the veal. Okay. See, I'm kidding. Like, you know, because he's hurt. Right. And, you know, we used a draft pick on him and committed our, you.

[Matt Abaticola]

Know, future to him. Yeah. Just a joke. Yeah. So, Sean, did you hear what Bo Nix had to say? Oh, I jokingly said that.

[Dan Bernstein]

Come on.

[Matt Abaticola]

It was just. I mean, everyone knows I was kidding, right?

[Dan Bernstein]

Of course. I've drafted injured guys all the time. I mean, I, you know, I draft guys all the time.

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh, yeah, it's brutal. Yeah, it's good stuff there from Sean Payton. He's doing Zany's next weekend.

[Dan Bernstein]

You know, he's doing Zany's. Our guy. Our guy. Scott Green, unemployed lawyer.

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh, is he really?

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, he's doing stand up comedy. He's going to be at Zany's in some sort of, like, competitive thing that he's been doing. Yeah, massively successful entertainment competitive, joke telling. He started making balloon animals at one point for the Boars and Bernstein show on remote.

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh, that's right.

[Dan Bernstein]

He came out doing balloon animals. That was the day Gary Coleman died.

[Matt Abaticola]

The day Gary Coleman died, yes. And they were singing.

[Dan Bernstein]

Guy got mad at us for making fun of him or something. And Terry said something about, like the, the size of his coffin or something. I don't remember exactly.

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh, God.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Abaticola]

Terry saying something insensitive. I don't believe it.

[Dan Bernstein]

And people got really mad and one guy was screaming and you had to. You remember, you had to get him out. Don't you remember?

[Matt Abaticola]

I don't.

[Dan Bernstein]

I don't remember. It was at a Buffalo Wild Wings in Gary. No, as a strip mall in some. I remember driving by it on the way to a hockey game and I just saw, like, wait, I've done a show from there before.

[Matt Abaticola]

You know, with all the memories this week, people are sharing all the different, like, opening lines that Terry would have for the start of the show.

[Dan Bernstein]

I forgot them. I know people are putting them in, like the YouTube comments.

[Matt Abaticola]

Riddling, diddling and country fiddling and hot country fiddling. I always Love that one.

[Dan Bernstein]

And what was the other one? I think. I think Strangles put one in there. Whereas so the best we can informed entertain have a laugh or two along the way. I remember that one. Yeah. And then. Oh, this one. Radio's best combination of divisive, outrageous, appalling, objectionable, offensive and occasionally inhospitable. Unterry. Bowers.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yep.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh, my God.

[Dan Bernstein]

So good. Yeah.

[Matt Abaticola]

All right. Well, that's. That's sad news. Going to the weekend with now I think I'm gonna go up and watch Schitt's Creek or maybe watch the studio just to get a little Catherine O' Hara fix. Yeah, I've got too young too man 71.

[Dan Bernstein]

Come on. Yeah, I've got an old VHS tape of some of the. But I don't need anymore because it's on YouTube. But it had so many of her like when she would do Lola Heatherton, Mommy Teresa, you're so nice. It's scary. Like some of the old stuff. Oh, God, that's. That's too bad. That's too bad. Well, all right. What a week, man. Yeah.

[Matt Abaticola]

Been a week.

[Dan Bernstein]

You know what we're going to do that we should do this weekend. And first of all, for everybody today who is also observing whatever, however you're observing the, the no work day or the don't whatever we call the, the purchasing strike of not buying anything. I think our, our household is definitely participating in that today. So I, I don't know if yours is as well, but good on you if you are.

[Matt Abaticola]

And that'll do it for forward progress today. We hope you have a great weekend. Remember to subscribe and follow all of the, all the programs here on 312Sports on YouTube and anywhere you get your podcasts. And of course, if you haven't gotten it yet, get the 312Sports app. That's the easiest thing for you to do. And we hope you have a great weekend watching all the Pro bowl festivities. We'll have a full breakdown of the Pro bowl flag football game on Monday. That is this weekend, right?

[Dan Bernstein]

I have no idea.

[Matt Abaticola]

The flag football game. Yeah. So we'll have a full breakdown. We have reporters on site that will be checking in multiple.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yes. And then checking in for the flag football game.

[Matt Abaticola]

We'll get full reports on Monday. So have a great rest of your Friday. Have a great weekend and we'll talk to you on Monday. For Dan Bernstein, I'm Matt Abaticola. This is Forward progress, A 312 sports production.

[Dan Bernstein]

Forward Progress has stopped.

[Matt Abaticola]

Forward Progress Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312 Sports.