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Ted 219, 219.
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Forward progress, a Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abaticola on 312 Sports.
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All right, let's go. Let's get ready for Bears and Lions with the latest that we know about everything that's going on and what appears to be were the opposite of last year. I know it sounds like hyperbole, but it's a key divisional game at the moment, especially based on everything that's going on in the division, which we're certainly going to get to on this episode of Forward Progress here on 312 Sports. Dan Bernstein, Matt Abaticola. There was the click that usually comes on dbu, but the opening of the Waterloo. What flavor are we? Black cherry today.
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B
Black cherry?
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A
Yeah, Black cherry.
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B
Yeah. It's my second one of the day. That's why I normally.
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A
Careful, careful.
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B
I know.
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A
Just, you know, pace yourself, taking the train home. Make sure you're having water in between. So you. Just to make sure I know you're taking the train home. Like the people on the Metro with their giant, you know, 40 ounces of king cobra or whatever they're drinking.
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B
Oh, no, you know, that was. That used to be me and, me and Pat Manley, we take that. We take the train from Libertyville together. And on the way home. Yes, it was.
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A
Yeah, we did Long Snapper ipa.
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B
Yes. No, no. Well, not. Because that wasn't out at the time.
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A
Okay. Because otherwise, if it's Patrick, you got to be drinking.
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B
Had it been. Yes, of course. But no, it was our tall boys of. Of lights and we. Yeah, it was fun. I bet that was a good time. I always enjoyed hanging out with people.
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A
Like lean over and try to eavesdrop on the conversation.
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B
No.
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A
Okay.
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B
No, we always sat up top away from people.
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A
Okay.
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B
Yeah. Generally in the same seat. I sat on his lap.
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A
The good news about the Bears and the Lions that we have, the bad news is the Bears are playing the Lions and they're six point dogs. They have to play better. They have.
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B
You think Dan Campbell's up and ready for this game? I think he's being extra meatbally.
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A
Oh, he's on his like 15th coffee with extra shots and everything.
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B
Today.
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Now. Today.
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B
Yes.
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A
Yeah, we know that.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Yeah. I think everybody's going to be ready to go. I hope the Bears are and I hope they're. They play well because I don't think they're going to win. And if they do, wonderful.
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B
If they win, that's just. That's extra. That's the cherry on top of the proverbial Sunday, Dan.
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A
Oh, and it is a Sunday, Matt.
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B
That we're going to love. But that's not the expectation. Okay. I'm not even holding them to that standard. It's just really simple. Play better football, be a better coach.
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A
It'll help with Jalen Johnson coming back.
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B
As we certainly will.
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A
Peruse the latest injury report. Friday's not in yet at the time of recording, but yesterday, Thursday we had Kyler Gordon and Grady Jarrett did not practice. There was a limited practice designation there for TJ Edwards, Josh Blackwell, Roshan Johnson and John A. Walker. Full practice for DJ Moore and Jay. We did learn that after DJ Moore was out on the field lying there in pain for five minutes that his injury is quote, abdomen slash groin. Little scary. Yep. Because that starts when you start seeing that you start talking about the old sports hernia. Sports hernia. And I don't like it. That is something that we know. Look, Dansby Swanson played through one for a season and a half before he got it fixed.
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B
Oh, by the way, Vanderbilt guy, we were talking about that yesterday. Who went to Vandy. Danzy Swanson.
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A
Yes, correct. Another Vandy guy to add to our list.
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B
My guy.
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These are things that some athletes can play through depending on the severity. I'm not diagnosing DJ Moore. I'm just saying that when I see abdomen slash groin, I don't know if that is a single injury or that's separate injuries based on that one hit.
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B
And you're not diagnosing anyone with DJ Moore either.
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I am not. Because you don't want to get that.
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B
No.
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A
So that's the latest in the injuries. We do have some transaction as well. The Bears have signed place kicker Jake Moody to their practice squad. That happened just a little bit ago.
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B
Came from the Niners.
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A
He came from the Niners because in the season opener Moody was 1 for 3, missing wide from 27, had a 36 yard attempt blocked. He was waived two days later.
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B
Perfect.
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A
Yeah, but his numbers. Numbers have. You know, last year real, he was 24 of 34, which is not great. The year before, 21 of 25.
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B
So why, why then?
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Because it. The message is sent to Cairo Santos to get better. Not sure.
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B
Hey get better. We brought in a guy who's worse than you.
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Right. But it's kicking. So sometimes it's like relief pitchers could.
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Be just a change of scenery was needed.
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You never know. Sometimes a kicker all of a sudden gets good.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Sometimes they lose it. It's. It's like a golf Swing. Sometimes they have it, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they remember their swing thought, sometimes they don't.
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B
Sometimes he feels like a nut, and sometimes you don't.
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A
I mean, Joy's got nuts. Mounds don't correct Yar and yar.
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Special teams yaoing. Yarring mounds.
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No, we're yarring nut and nuts.
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B
Oh, okay.
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It has to be plural, though.
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Yards.
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The special teams are a complete nightmare.
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They certainly were.
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Absolute, total nightmare all the way around. Coverage teams punt, got blocked, field goal got missed, everything bad. So we know the coordinator of special special things for the Bears is Richard Hightower.
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B
Yep.
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A
So he met with the media, and let's hear the questions that were directed at him this week.
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B
Yeah, so what we did, we took the first, like, minute 30. So this is when the coordinators meet the media on Thursdays. And this is Richard Hightower.
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C
How's everyone?
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Good. How are you? Good.
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C
Good.
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A
What you got talking to us?
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What was your diagnosis on the missed.
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Field goal at the start of the fourth quarter?
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B
You missed it? Yeah.
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C
I mean, we never want to leave points on the board. My diagnosis is. Always starts with the operation. That snap, hold, and kick. That wasn't clean. Protection was good. That wasn't clean.
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And.
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And we didn't get it done, and we need to get that done.
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Part wasn't clean.
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It's just the whole operation. Yeah, whole operation wasn't clean enough for us.
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B
When you're deciding whether to put it.
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Back in the end zone or kick it out of bounds, what are the factors that you weigh?
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C
Yeah, I think coach already addressed that with you all, so, I mean, I'm just going to reiterate what he said, because it's the truth. We wanted the ball to go out the back of the end zone, and that didn't happen.
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A
He also said that, in retrospect, he.
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B
Should have had the ball kicked out of bounds.
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Correct?
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B
Yeah.
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What's the discussion like?
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C
Yeah, when we think we. We have a discussion, it's communication between coaches and players, and we communicate. We thought that we could kick it out the back. The player thought he could kick it out the back. If that doesn't happen, then we go to the next option.
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A
Richard, is there any, like, discussion between, like, Torrey potentially kicking it out or is that. Did not even come to mind?
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Yeah, that's discussed. We always. We always work with Tory on that stuff.
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B
But.
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C
But that. That was not an option right there.
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A
And just to clarify, there's the same, like, kicking it short of the landing.
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B
Zone has the same.
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What is the stipulation. There?
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The difference? Yeah, it's a five yard difference.
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B
All right, so that was just the first minute.
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Why was it not an option?
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Yeah, I don't know.
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Was that asked? No, it wasn't an option. Did he leave? Was he not there? Was, was, was Tori Taylor unavailable?
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B
I just, you know what? I, I, I, I don't like, I don't like. We thought he could kick it out of the back of the end zone. The player thought he could kick it out of the back of the end zone. What happened? Well, he kicked it and didn't go out of the back of the end zone. That, that, that just shouldn't happen.
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A
I mean, that's a bad process. Why wasn't Tori Taylor available? That's just, why is it not an option?
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B
It's, it's one of those repeatable things that you can do in practice that you should be able to know and you should, you know, you take weather conditions into, you know, as a factor as well. But you should know that for, for fat for a fact now. Yeah. Why wasn't it, why wasn't he an option? I don't know. That's, I don't get it.
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A
Did he answer that later in the press? Why wasn't an option?
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B
I believe so.
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A
No. Like, because I got to know that.
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B
And then let's just ask why, why not kick it short of the landing zone then if it's a five yard penalty, but there's no time off the clock.
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A
Right.
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B
You keep that 202 and they go from the 35 to the 40. Why didn't you all just do that like that? That to me seems a lot easier than kicking it through the back of the end zone, but that's something that.
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A
Can be fixed this week. We're already having operational issues in multiple phases here. Yeah, because we, Caleb Williams was talking about operational issues and get in, getting the play called and we were discussing during DBU who's covering who's ass on this, where the coach says, yeah, well that's on me. I got it in late. Caleb Williams says, well, that's on me. As far as the false starts go, maybe I have to say the play in the huddle a little louder or I've got to be, I may not have to bark out the, the cadence the same way. I think he's covering for Jonah Jackson or whoever is specifically being discussed at that point. But you've got operational issues on offense, operational issues on special teams in game one at home.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And now you're going to maybe One of the top three most difficult places to play right now in all of the NFL in an absolutely raucous Ford field.
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B
Yeah. And then they're going to work on the silent count, the silent snap and see.
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A
Silent count.
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B
Yeah. Oh, he'll sneak up on you.
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Do not.
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He's a very sneaky bastard.
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Ah, you did not hear me because I am silent.
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B
So if they, if they go, if they go silent on the, on the snap, it's just, again, that's.
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A
That's tee off time.
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B
That is tee off time. Because that creates the opportunity for the defense to get ready. Right? We see that. We see the markers. We know what's happening. Also, it just. That creates in my brain more operation, more opportunities for operational dysfunction.
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A
Unless you're keeping it so simple to avoid the operational dysfunction that you then lose any advantage of having it. Of having it. Where the whole point of the Ben Johnson offense is to use all that as a disruptor. If you're giving that up already, it's sort of like what we talk about with asking the tight ends to help block. Like, we had this idea of, well, Ben Johnson's going to be able to know, and the idea is Caleb sees it through his eyes before the snap. They're going to use motion, cadence and timing to gain advantages. And they're like, well, our process isn't good enough for us to use any of these things, therefore, we're giving up all these advantages.
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B
Correct.
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A
I mean, we're not supposed to be here yet.
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B
They went into the Minnesota game knowing that they were going to use six or seven. He said it at times to block, and that consistently is part of the game plan. Like, when asked about their lack of production, Ben Johnson said, oh, yeah, that's what we expected. We knew that because they were there for the run game, for pass protection. So if you already know that you have to go into a game with six or seven to protect the quarterback to pass the ball, you're limiting yourself. You're taking away the advantages that you gained by drafting these guys in Loveland and having come at already there and extending him already. But then what about the money spent on the offensive line? I know at times you have to do it. You have to chip. You have to use running backs to help block at times. But if that's your game plan, going into an entire game to have six or seven, you've cost yourself already. And that. That's not what this was supposed to be.
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A
When the Bears are looking for their ways to attack a potent Lions offense, we're waiting to find out about Taylor Decker, the left tackle, whether he's going to play. It's believed that he might be a game time decision for them. They think he's going to give it every opportunity. From what I saw in the first Lions game, the interior of their line is a far cry from what it was last year. It's not just Frank Ragnow being replaced by Graham Glasgow, but that's a lot of it.
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B
It is a lot of it. And they lost 40% of their starting offensive line.
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A
And you've got a rookie at right guard in Tate Ratlage, right. Who is believed to be a solid player and a terrific prospect, but a rookie nonetheless. Now, with Grady Jarrett maybe not playing, that does mean you could play Andrew Billings more than the 30% of the snaps he got in Game 1. I was surprised that he. But I shouldn't be because he does not fit the Dennis Allen prototype of a defensive tackle.
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B
Right.
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A
However, this may be an opportunity for Billings to hold that nose, absorb a double team and get the kind of push that's going to make a difference maybe no matter what Dennis Allen thinks. You got a 350 pound monster right there who may be more useful in this game than others.
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B
Yeah. And with the NFL, you know, it's always next man up, guys are going to be injured. You had to step up and play. And we saw that last night though in that packers game against the commander Sanders. Their offensive line isn't like, you know that. That's a, that's a ragtag group of offensive linemen put together and they managed to do enough to keep Jordan Love in the pocket to be able to make throws downfield. Now, he missed some. He wasn't as sharp as he. As he can be. But they still put up over 400 yards of offense in that game. They still looked good moving the ball. They left a lot of points on the field. They had a missed field goal. They had a touchdown called back. They could have easily put more points on the board.
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A
If we're talking about that.
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B
This is a makeshift offensive line.
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A
If you want to talk about some of that packers stuff. Now, I was watching the defense pretty closely and that is. That's hell coming to breakfast. If they stay healthy, particularly if Micah Parsons stays healthy, they, they are going.
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B
To finish now again, two games in lots, lots of football left and health needs is a factor. But that is going to be easily a top five rushing defense in the league. Easily a top five.
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A
It was very simple what they were doing with the ability to rush Four and drop everybody else to their landmarks and have them just launch themselves forward at all of these short routes with the pressure they were generating from their front four. I'm not sure where the pressure release is from a textbook perspective. If you're just giving a coach a quiz. All right, coach, you've got a zone defense they're rushing for. They're running a relatively basic zone. What is. What are the first things you say? Here's how we're going to get them out of this zone. Here's what we're going to. Here's how we're going to make them pay for this defense. What do you do?
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B
Well, here's the first thing I do. I. I deliberately have my routes sit in those open pockets of a zone.
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A
Okay.
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B
But that again. And what we've seen so far, what we've learned of Caleb Williams in 18 games now, he has difficulty hitting those pockets in a timely fashion.
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You got to trust the timing and trust the instincts of your receivers. Roma Dunes that we know is pretty.
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B
Good at it, and he can do that. But again, like we saw it on. On Monday night, and he sat open in that zone for at least three seconds. That's. That's the three seconds that it takes Micah Parsons to get to you and bury you in the ground.
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A
See, I think a little differently.
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B
Yeah, you do.
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A
My first thought when I see that defense is all verticals. Take the top off. And the problem is they didn't have time to do it. What gives you time? Two things. Enough protection and the speed of your receivers to separate to get off the line clean. And it may just be that you need a little rub, that you need a stack, and then you send everybody vertical. The problem with rubs and stacks is those take time. If guys can't just blast their way. If you don't have a DK Metcalf, if you don't have an X that can just throw a guy aside. Floods and in multiple verticals are what the Bears are going to have to do when they see the packers because that defense is coming for them, too.
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B
Yeah, but here's the issue with that, though. That requires your quarterback to fire the ball downfield, which he has not been comfortable in doing and is not decisive enough to make those throws downfield. Even when guys are wide open.
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A
What they tried to do last night with McLaurin and whoever was. Do some run under it plays.
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B
Yeah.
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Sort of the balloons where the quarterback's just going to chuck it and hope that you can get separation afterward, rather than allowing the Route stem to develop and allowing you to make a decision. It's a pre decided play where maybe you get a pass interference and that's not an offense. They. And they never found an offense. They never did.
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B
Yeah, they struggled last night to get things started. They started to late in the second quarter but it just never materialized from what we saw of a Jaden Daniels offense last year.
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A
The other thing I saw last night in that game, middle of the fourth quarter, packers get the ball with a chance to put the game away to march down the field. I was down to a seven point lead. They've got the ball and if it's a three and out, all of a sudden things are real tight. Now we know what happened to the Bears in that situation. A horrible three and out.
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B
Yep.
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A
Long sack penalty ever.
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B
Well, when it rains it pours. Things happen. You catch fire.
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A
Well, and that's when Ben Johnson. Well, you know what happens. It didn't happen to Matt LaFleur. No. And he was saving stuff. He was pulling out all kinds of stuff. The play design was. He got creative and it wasn't just the early script. He was like, oh, oh, we need to get down and get a touchdown. Here's what we're going to do and here's how we're going to do it. And there were misdirections and end around stuff and next thing you know they're standing in the end zone of the game's effectively over. That's what you do.
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B
Yeah. And you know, going back to like how you beat that zone, like Caleb has an inability to really consistently hit those that middle zone level, get over that first layer in front of the back level and really hit that little, that level zone. And not just, you know, because this is really what great. What Bears wide receivers are great at is they have their back turned to the end zone and they're waiting for a ball to come to them that's been consistent regardless of the quarterback, which I absolutely hate. But when they're in motion, they're in stride. He was, he was high on Monday night. He was high.
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A
Well, remember too that those zone throws are more difficult when they're not able to use their tight ends to, to put defenders in conflict. You make the areas of the zone larger.
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B
Yeah. Because the tight ends are back blocking.
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A
Right.
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B
Sometimes you have six, sometimes you have seven.
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A
They're not into their routes enough to affect the key defenders. So even if you do and with Williams, even if he does get it to the guy in the zone usually because it's A beat late. That's going to interrupt and retard the ability for somebody to turn up the field and get yards after the catch. So I'm just disappointed. Again, regardless whether it's man or zone, once they fix the timing issue, everything will look better.
- [18:32]
B
The packers defense and the past game, Dan, they've given up 212 yards a game that they're the first two, three touchdowns. In those two games, they have allowed two plays of 20 plus yards, none over 40 yards. Their longest play given up via the pass is 32. Their rushing defense, 43 and a half yards a game. They're giving up 2.4 yards per carry along of 14. No touchdowns allowed in two games. Again, this is going to be, if they stay healthy, a top five rushing defense. Micah Parsons playing about half the snaps right now. He only had, I think he had half a sack and maybe two tackles. But he is, he is so disruptive for the offense and bringing the pressure now. Again, it didn't show up in the stat book.
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A
It changes the math. It does show up in the stat book. When you look at him, not for him.
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B
I should say not for him, not for him.
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A
For who's assigned to block everybody else and who's winning their matchups elsewhere.
- [19:27]
B
And it was very reminiscent. We talked about being at Lambeau watching games or going to games and it was very reminiscent of that first, the only game I've been to Lambeau, when I saw Khalil Mack's first game with the Bears, not only was he disruptive, helping the defensive line and the defensive raw, but he was, he was getting in the stat, the stat books too. I think he had two sacks that game, lots of pressures, lots of hurries. So Michael Parsons, he may not show up for him. You may look at and say, oh, half a sack, two tackles, that's a terrible game. No, not at all.
- [19:53]
A
That's why you don't let guys like that leave your building.
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B
Right. I still don't get it. I won't.
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A
I was a six year old, a.
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B
Prime, not even in his prime. He's getting to his prime.
- [20:06]
A
A top, top pass rusher. You don't let them leave. You know, you, you pay them a lot of money so they can be that valuable to your team in helping you win.
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B
Yeah, because like I would, I would love to have a guy like that that is so disruptive. It may not show up in the stat book, but he helps your other players do better.
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A
As long as he's healthy. They are a World Series. World Series. They're a Super bowl possibility as long as he's healthy.
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B
What here's the good news, though, for Bears fans is that the packers are the youngest team in football. So that's a good thing because they're going to be this good for. Oh, no, wait, that's not a good thing.
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A
Nope.
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B
That Right. It's not. That's a bad thing that they're young.
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A
Nope.
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B
Young and young. And good is good for them, bad for us.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Okay.
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A
They got another tight end.
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B
You got to write that down.
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A
They keep making. Yeah, they're tight.
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B
Yeah.
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A
They keep developing guys. Yeah. This whole. Ooh. Developing draft picks.
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B
I think their tight ends last night. 165 yards maybe.
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A
I want to say they keep developing their draft picks while the Bears are. You know, they cut their third rounder from a couple of years ago. They've got an. It wasn't Amagaje. Was he third or fourth? He didn't even play. He might be awful.
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B
Right?
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A
I don't know. This is. It reminds Me of the St. Louis Cardinals Heyday when they just kept producing guys and they could just stay young and their next guys and their replacement level guys were just always better than yours.
- [21:34]
B
Yeah. So we'll have of course, remind all of you if you have not subscribed yet to forward Progress, make sure you subscribe to both for the Progress and Dan Bernson unfiltered, get to the YouTube channel, the little Bell icon. Click on that. Make sure your notifications are on because you'll want to know when we go live for Bears post game, which will happen after Bears Lions noon kick. We will go live after the game for another fun postgame show. Hopefully better result to talk about, but still just loads of fun with all the people that tuned in in our first live post game.
- [22:08]
A
And this is going to be the first look at Aiden Hutchinson and his role as the Caleb Kryptonite, another unique and special pass rusher who also crashes down the line to stop the run. So it's another one in the division who is back from his broken foot to bedevil the Bears. One quick not apropos of nothing, because I'm going to give you something that once you see it, you'll never unsee it. And this is just because my eye does this. I tend to anagram things and I tend to see words that aren't there and create words that aren't there. Weakside linebacker, Lions Weak side linebacker, Alex Anzalone. Yeah, I can't look at the back of his jersey without reading it as anal zone highway. Dude. I just. I. Every time. And now I can't undo it. So there. I've cursed you with that.
- [23:07]
B
Thank you.
- [23:07]
A
You cannot see the name Anzalone and it is a N, Z, a L, O, N, E. But I transpose this the. The letters in the middle, and it becomes Anal Zone. Okay, that's. But this is a me problem.
- [23:21]
B
Yeah, it is a you problem. But now you shared it.
- [23:23]
A
But now it's everyone's problem. Maybe by globalizing it, by diffusing. By diffusing the problem, I can make it better for me by sharing it and spreading it.
- [23:34]
B
Yeah, if you spread it. The opposite of our plan with shrimp, man. We want to minimize that to keep it to one person.
- [23:39]
A
Right. We can't have multiple shrimp men because.
- [23:41]
B
That would really negate the whole power and the benefit of having shrimp, man.
- [23:47]
A
Right. Who eats the radioactive shrimp?
- [23:48]
B
Right. So now this. We spread this. And it makes it better for you.
- [23:51]
A
It makes it better for me personally during the game.
- [23:53]
B
Okay. Over. Under right now, the number of emails you'll receive post Bears, Lions. Because they kept reading anal zone emails.
- [24:02]
A
Over, under. Yeah, four and a half.
- [24:06]
B
All right, I'm gonna take the over on that. Easy. That's.
- [24:08]
A
Yeah, but now you're skewing it because now people are going to send it in on purpose.
- [24:12]
B
I'm not. I didn't skew anything.
- [24:13]
A
Yeah, you did.
- [24:14]
B
I just shared my opinion.
- [24:15]
A
Okay, well, what's most important, imo, what's most important is this for which you have been waiting.
- [24:23]
B
Yeah, I'm very excited about this.
- [24:24]
A
We're going to do this for every unique Bears opponent. And when the Bears opponent is a repeat opponent, we'll figure something else fun to do. But on these Fridays before a game or the day before a game, we're going to bring you the all time top 10 of whatever the name of the team is. We brought you the top 10 all time Vikings. And today, Matabaticola. Now, just let the record show I have a list here. Okay. I wrote down my top 10 in no particular order other than the number one.
- [24:54]
B
I mean, this is a long. I mean, long, storied franchise in the NFL. There are some phenomenal players that have come through.
- [25:02]
A
Amazing. They're amazing Lions.
- [25:04]
B
Yes.
- [25:04]
A
There's amazing Lions in history.
- [25:06]
B
So this is the top 10 Lions of all time. And again, we're doing this as a service to you.
- [25:10]
A
Correct.
- [25:11]
B
You're going to your, you know, relative's house, your buddy's house to watch the game. This is for this Is now your ability ammunition. So you can sound trivia. Yes.
- [25:20]
A
You can say he's no.
- [25:21]
B
Right.
- [25:22]
A
This guy might be good. You know whose record he's chasing. Just so you have a. An understanding of the context and the history of the bears opponent.
- [25:29]
B
So these are the top 10 Lions of all time. I. I do have three notable mentions though, to start.
- [25:35]
A
Honorable mentions or honorable mentions.
- [25:37]
B
Okay, all right. Number, number. This is not number three here of the honorable mentions. Lionel Richie. Lionel Richie.
- [25:45]
A
Lionel Richie, Yeah.
- [25:47]
B
American singer, songwriter, musician, record producer, TV personality. You know, he was the co leader of the Motown group Commodores.
- [25:53]
A
I'm saying Motown. Detroit.
- [25:55]
B
Yes.
- [25:55]
A
Gets an extra bonus.
- [25:56]
B
Correct.
- [25:56]
A
Because it's Lionel.
- [25:58]
B
Lionel L I O N E L Not to be confused with the Vanderbilt Commodores of the sec. The current team of Diego Pavia, the greatest college quarterback ever. Lionel Richie wrote and recorded such hits as Easy Sail on three times a Lady. Still wrote and produced the number one single lady for Kenny Rogers.
- [26:14]
A
What about. Hello.
- [26:16]
B
His greatest song, without a doubt is Endless love. He wrote, produced and recorded with Diana Ross in 1980.
- [26:22]
A
I disagree with that. I think it's all night long.
- [26:25]
B
Okay, that's fine. You can have your own IMO party. Karumba.
- [26:33]
A
Karumba.
- [26:34]
B
Isn't it karumba?
- [26:34]
A
It was karumbo Fiesta forever. Karumba.
- [26:39]
B
Karumba.
- [26:40]
A
What does that mean?
- [26:40]
B
I have no idea. Isn't it a dance move?
- [26:42]
A
Okay.
- [26:43]
B
I don't know.
- [26:43]
A
I mean, the rumba is a dance move.
- [26:45]
B
Maybe the karumba is a relative of the rumba.
- [26:48]
A
I don't know. You're doing something all night.
- [26:51]
B
Have fun all night long, by the way. Yeah. All right, so honorable mentions, we continue on with Richard the Lionheart. Richard the Lionheart.
- [26:59]
A
Lionhearted. Yes.
- [27:00]
B
Former king of England. Richard was the third of five sons of Henry II of England. Was known to be a great military leader and warrior. He reigned as king of England from 1189 until his death in 1199.
- [27:11]
A
Pretty good run there. Yeah, Rich.
- [27:14]
B
10 years the last of the honorable mentions. Greatest lions of all time. Barry Sanders, former NFL running back who spent 10 seasons with the Lions.
- [27:23]
A
Okay.
- [27:24]
B
The Detroit Lions, that is, of the National Football League. Was named NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year in 1989. Two time NFL Offensive Player of the Year, a six time first team All Pro, a 10 time Pro Bowler four times. He led the NFL in rushing. Was named league MVP in 1997.
- [27:41]
A
Okay, that's. Okay. So Barry Sanders, honorable mention.
- [27:45]
B
Correct.
- [27:45]
A
All time top 10 Lion.
- [27:47]
B
Yes.
- [27:47]
A
Wow, this is gonna be a hell of a List.
- [27:48]
B
Yeah. I'm telling you, this is the real deal.
- [27:51]
A
Oh, I know it. Do you want to.
- [27:52]
B
Do you want to run through your list and then.
- [27:53]
A
No, I will tell you where mine are.
- [27:57]
B
Okay.
- [27:57]
A
On the list.
- [27:58]
B
All right, we start at number 10. These are the top 10 lions of all time. Number 10, Brigadier General Nathaniel Lyon. Not familiar.
- [28:08]
A
Not on my list.
- [28:09]
B
All right. First Union general killed in the Civil War.
- [28:13]
A
First Union general killed. Okay.
- [28:16]
B
In 1850, he co led the Bloody island massacre of 600 to 200 Native Americans as part of the California genocide. While fighting on the right side of the Civil War. He pretty much seemed like a bad guy. Probably should have died sooner.
- [28:28]
A
They didn't say that.
- [28:30]
B
And let this be a reminder to all of us that we are all immigrants in this country or came from immigrants and should act accordingly. Motherfuckers. So that's number 10. Number nine on the top 10 list of all time Lions, Steve Lyons.
- [28:43]
A
I had him as honorable mention.
- [28:45]
B
Really?
- [28:46]
A
Yes. Only because he took off his pants.
- [28:48]
B
Former MLB utility player. Spent eight years in baseball with four teams, including the White Sox from 1986 to 1990. He is best known for his role as TV commentator alongside Vin Scully in the underappreciated and award deprived baseball film for Love of the Game starring Kevin Costner and his giant dong.
- [29:08]
A
Okay.
- [29:10]
B
Number eight.
- [29:11]
A
Yes. So I don't. I only had a. I have none of my top ten here.
- [29:15]
B
Okay. Number eight, Hubert the Lion.
- [29:18]
A
I had him at number eight.
- [29:19]
B
There you go.
- [29:20]
A
I did. I had Hubert because I. I had so many Huberts.
- [29:24]
B
Okay.
- [29:24]
A
I don't know why, like every time you open an account, it's a good example of suburban white privilege that I had a bunch of Huberts because we banked the Harris.
- [29:32]
B
Hubert the lion mascot for Harris bank, then later BMO Harris bank and was retired in 2023. Norman Waite Harris adopted the lion as a symbol in 1911, and the image was then developed later by Leo Burnett Advertising.
- [29:47]
A
In 1958, I had both multiple stuffed Huberts and Hubert piggy banks.
- [29:54]
B
Really?
- [29:54]
A
Yeah. The Harris bank would give you a Hubert piggy bank where you could keep your change and learn about banking.
- [30:00]
B
You kept your piggies in there.
- [30:02]
A
That's where I learned about compound interest at a very young age.
- [30:06]
B
So number eight was Hubert the Lion. Number seven.
- [30:10]
A
Yes.
- [30:11]
B
We go to a movie that's gonna have a little run here in the top 10. Scar. Scar the Lion.
- [30:17]
A
I had the scar. The lion voiced by Jeremy Irons at nine.
- [30:23]
B
At nine. Okay. So this is number seven, the Lion King. Voiced by Jeremy Irons. Also. Also, dan ranks number two on the 16 movie villains list who have a British accent just to prove they're evil.
- [30:36]
A
And let me shout out a local Chicago actor who played Scar in the production that I saw here when it debuted. And that is the brilliant Chicago actor Larry Yando.
- [30:47]
B
Okay.
- [30:48]
A
Who's also known for playing Ebenezer Scrooge and in the Goodman Theaters and production of A Christmas Carol. But he. He made for a wonderful scar.
- [30:58]
B
I think it's still. I think it's still playing here in Chicago.
- [31:01]
A
Okay.
- [31:01]
B
I think it is. All right, so that's number six. You didn't. Did you not? You didn't have scar.
- [31:05]
A
I did. Number nine.
- [31:06]
B
Okay. Number nine. Oh, number nine.
- [31:07]
A
So I had Hubert and I had scar.
- [31:09]
B
Okay. Number six is also continuing with the Lion King is Simba. Simba in Lion King, I had him four. Four. Okay.
- [31:18]
A
I had Simba as number four, voiced.
- [31:20]
B
By Matthew Broderick and Jonathan Taylor Thomas. Now, you're familiar with Jonathan Taylor Thomas, actor from Home Improvement.
- [31:28]
A
Okay. Yeah, I can picture him.
- [31:30]
B
So he was the. The cub Simba, and then Matthew Broderick played like the teenager Simba. They're voiced over, I should say. But it reminded me of something very special that the Internet has shared with us. The Jonathan. Jonathan Taylor Thomas moment. So remember, he was the. One of the. One of the children on Home Improvement with Tim Allen.
- [31:50]
A
Okay.
- [31:50]
B
Okay. I'm gonna play some audio here for you from an ABC, ABC7 commercial. Okay. That aired during Home Improvement. Okay. Okay, I'm gonna set this up for you real quick. So this is a commercial that aired on abc, ABC for Home Improvement. But the clip we're gonna watch is the commercial being watched by Stephen Colbert, Steve Carell, and Dana Carvey just for their reaction to the commercial.
- [32:21]
A
Okay.
- [32:21]
B
Okay. Just get ready to listen to this, please.
- [32:24]
A
All right.
- [32:24]
B
This is a commercial from ABC promoting Home Improvement.
- [32:30]
D
Abc, Tuesday, A parent's worst fear. Losing a child.
- [32:34]
A
I don't want to die, dad.
- [32:35]
D
You never know whose family it will happen to you. An episode so powerful, it hits home. We beat this thing no matter what it is, you know, I'm not letting anything happen to you. A special Home Improvement followed by the Diet mug Root Beer Dana carving show.
- [32:57]
A
That is fantastic.
- [32:59]
B
It is.
- [33:00]
A
And you, their big voice guy, didn't say anything. No. You know what that reminds me of? Do you remember the famous Casey Kasem?
- [33:07]
B
Oh, my good. The.
- [33:08]
A
The outtake when he goes off because he has to do is to go back into some happy song after A dedication to a dead dog.
- [33:16]
B
Dog. I played that audio clip for the. The dads on Jackson's baseball team this summer. We're up at. In. We're in Dyersville. You got me doing it, and I Somehow it came up and I said, have you guys heard this? The Casey Kasem thing? And they were like, no. So we. I pulled it up on my phone. We listened to it. It's fantastic. But how great is that? So I don't know the context of why they're showing it to Colbert and Steve Carell, Dana Carvey.
- [33:39]
A
Because it's funny.
- [33:40]
B
They're watching it, and then it's just their reaction. You've got to watch the video, too, Dan. It's. It's so. I mean, it's. It's unbelievable.
- [33:47]
A
Mug Root Beer was the title sponsor.
- [33:49]
B
To the Dana Carvey Show.
- [33:50]
A
Although if you do look at. At the alums from the Dana Carvey Show, I think it's a crazy list of some successful people who are in the writers room on that. It's not quite your shows. Yeah. But I. I do think that that was kind of an incubator for. For some comic talent. I need to go look that up.
- [34:08]
D
ABC Tuesday. A Parent's worst fear. Losing a child.
- [34:11]
A
I don't want to die, dad.
- [34:13]
D
You never know whose family it will happen to. That episode so powerful, it hits home. We'll beat this thing no matter what it is. You know, I'm not letting anything happen to you. A special Home Improvement followed by the Diet Mug Root Beer. Dana Carvey Show.
- [34:34]
A
Yeah, here it is. The show was recognized for providing early exposure to Steve Carell and Stephen Colbert.
- [34:41]
B
Oh, well, then there you go. That explains the context. Thank you.
- [34:44]
A
And also Robert Smigel. The writing staff also included Louis ck, Charlie Kaufman, John Glazer, Dino Stemitopoulos, Spike Ferris, and Robert Carlock.
- [34:57]
B
So, yeah, so there you go. That's Jonathan Taylor Thomas and a very special episode of Home Improvement. Okay, whatever this is, kid, we're going to beat it. It's cancer, idiot. Whatever this is, good luck.
- [35:09]
A
How are we going to beat it? And now, the Dana Carvey show, brought to you by Mug Root Beer. Where are we?
- [35:14]
B
This brings us to number five. Number five. I said our run of Lion King. Number five. Mufasa.
- [35:20]
A
I had him. Number six.
- [35:21]
B
Okay. The Lion King, voiced by James Earl Jones, also ranks number one on the list of saddest deaths in a kids movie.
- [35:29]
A
No, after. Wait, I had a Bambi.
- [35:33]
B
That's it. I didn't make that list.
- [35:35]
A
Just reporting what I read ahead of Bambi.
- [35:38]
B
Yes. Now, James Earl Jones also was the voice of Darth Vader in the not well known sci fi series Star Wars.
- [35:45]
A
I never heard of it.
- [35:46]
B
He also played the role of Terrence Mann in the baseball film Field of Dreams, starring Kevin Costner and his massive.
- [35:53]
A
What do I want, Ray? I want people to stop coming to me for answers. I want them to think for themselves for a change.
- [35:59]
B
All right, so that's number five. And it ends our run of. Of Lion King. Number four, Alex the Lion.
- [36:07]
A
I had him number ten.
- [36:09]
B
Okay. Fun loving character in the popular family movie Madagascar. Alex the lion at number four. Number three, Dan the MGM lion.
- [36:19]
A
I had him number three.
- [36:20]
B
There you go.
- [36:20]
A
This is great.
- [36:21]
B
Nicely done. Leo the MGM Lion, Metro Goldwyn Mayer Studio.
- [36:26]
A
Number three. And he roars. And then there's another. There's a pause and then there's another roar. He's not done yet.
- [36:33]
B
Yeah, I'm still roaring.
- [36:35]
A
Yeah, this movie will start when I'm done roaring, damn it.
- [36:37]
B
Hear me roar.
- [36:39]
A
Roar.
- [36:41]
B
All right, number two. The number two line of all time. Aslan.
- [36:45]
A
I had him number five of C.S.
- [36:47]
B
Lewis, the Chronicles of Narnia book series.
- [36:50]
A
Didn't like the Chronicles of Narnia?
- [36:52]
B
Did you even read them?
- [36:52]
A
I tried.
- [36:53]
B
Yeah. I say it's too Jesus.
- [36:54]
A
I think I read the lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, and then. And then it got a little, like, obviously allegorical and preachy, so.
- [37:01]
B
Well, I mean, he represents Jesus.
- [37:03]
A
I know.
- [37:03]
B
In the. In the series. It was pretty out there for you in the first one.
- [37:07]
A
I kind of started. Yeah, I was a dumb kid. I kind of started figuring out that it was. Oh, oh, okay.
- [37:16]
B
All right.
- [37:16]
A
But you know, it shouldn't. I shouldn't have let it bother me. Because the Matrix is the same thing. Yeah, right. Why? And I love the Matrix.
- [37:23]
B
Very. Yeah.
- [37:24]
A
Doesn't bother me there.
- [37:25]
B
Yeah, they just throw Jesus in your face in the Matrix.
- [37:27]
A
Ow. It's not like getting a dildo whipped at your head.
- [37:30]
B
Not by grandma. All right, so that was number two. The number one lion of all time from the wizard of Oz, the Cowardly Lion. Number one at the top of our top ten list.
- [37:40]
A
Okay, that was my Bert Lahr. That was my number.
- [37:43]
B
Lar. Bert.
- [37:44]
A
Lar. That was my number two. Cowardly Lion. There are two on my. Number one was not on your list at all.
- [37:52]
B
All right. Yeah. Cause it's the correct list. This is your list.
- [37:55]
A
And my number seven. Let's start with my number seven.
- [37:58]
B
Who'd you have?
- [37:58]
A
It was an actual lion From Kenya, known as Scarface.
- [38:02]
B
Oh, oh, yes. I know that lion.
- [38:05]
A
Which. And I believe that's why Scar in the Lion King was known as Scar because of Scarface. Because of the legend of the actual lion. Scarface.
- [38:14]
B
Yeah.
- [38:14]
A
That was tracked around the Kenyan savannah. But he's actually scar and tracked and played with the savannah bananas as well. Had a nice little run late in his career. After he retired from lioning, he joined the Savannah Bananas.
- [38:26]
B
So scarf. What's the. What's the significance of Scarface the lion?
- [38:29]
A
He was just. He was just recognizable.
- [38:31]
B
That was it. It wasn't like a man eater or anything.
- [38:33]
A
He didn't run with hauling oats and hauling ass. No, I believe he was a. Let me look up. Exactly. I know that when here it was a legendary male lion in the legendary Harry and his children were buried on Thursday. Johnny Red Carroll, Kenya's Masai Mara National Reserve. Known for his dark mane and a prominent eye scar.
- [38:55]
B
So just because of the scar, he didn't do anything.
- [38:56]
A
Famous for his dominance.
- [38:58]
B
Okay.
- [38:58]
A
Reportedly killed over 130 rival males and 400 hyenas.
- [39:05]
B
Ooh. And hyenas are. They're nasty little kids.
- [39:08]
A
And is one of the only lions to kill an adult hippo in a one on one fight.
- [39:15]
B
Ooh, that's usually a bad matchup.
- [39:18]
A
Oh, it's a hip. Hippo is not to be messed with by.
- [39:22]
B
They're cute looking things by people, but they're.
- [39:25]
A
The babies might be cute. The big ones will do horrible things to you.
- [39:29]
B
And they swim really fast too. Yep. They eat boats. You're gonna need a bigger boat.
- [39:35]
A
Not in one bite.
- [39:36]
B
Oh, they could.
- [39:37]
A
Yeah. So that's why the actual Scarface was famous. And my number one.
- [39:41]
B
Yeah, your number one did not make the official list.
- [39:44]
A
The lion of lions. The actual Leo of the heavens. The Zodiac Leo.
- [39:50]
B
Yeah, it's a good one.
- [39:52]
A
Yeah. That's the. The actual constellation.
- [39:54]
B
Yeah. The makers of this list, they don't. They don't believe in that stuff though, so.
- [39:57]
A
Well, I'm not saying I believe in it, but as far as the.
- [40:00]
B
The overall, you believe in Leo the Lion of the Stars as much as you do. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers winning the super.
- [40:05]
A
Bowl and my problems with South Sudan.
- [40:08]
B
Basketball because you hate Lou all day.
- [40:10]
A
The. The. The actual Zodiac Leo was my number number one.
- [40:14]
B
That's a good one. Good list.
- [40:15]
A
Yours too.
- [40:16]
B
Thank you. So this. So this is the official list. Starting at 10. Breeder General Nathaniel Lyons, Steve Lyons, Hubert the Lion Scar. Simba Mufasa, Alex the Lion. The MGM Lion Aslan and the Cowardly lion of the wizard of Oz. Wait, was that. Was he on your list?
- [40:33]
A
Number two.
- [40:35]
B
Okay.
- [40:35]
A
Yeah.
- [40:35]
B
Okay.
- [40:35]
A
Yeah, he was number two.
- [40:36]
B
Okay.
- [40:37]
A
And that's gonna do it.
- [40:38]
B
Hang on one second.
- [40:39]
D
ABC Tuesday. A parent's worst fear. Losing a child.
- [40:43]
A
I don't want to die, dad.
- [40:44]
D
You never know whose family it will happen to. An episode so powerful, it hits home. We'll beat this thing no matter what it is, you know, I'm not letting anything happen to you. A special Home Improvement followed by the Diet Mug Root Beer Dana Carving Show.
- [41:00]
B
I remember the first time I saw that video just like scrolling through reels and I. I was in tears. Absolute tears. Because it's like, oh, my God. This is like. Like your facial. Like, I'm gonna watch the. Watch the video. And when you're hearing this commercial for the first time, like, your face was like, like, it. It got to you. And then it just. The Big voice guy comes out with. Followed by the Dana Carvey show brought to you by.
- [41:24]
A
No, it leads. That's the best part. Is that because Mug Root Beer paid for the title sponsorship. It's not a presenting sponsorship. That's the difference between selling a title sponsorship, meaning they have to be mentioned first. So instead of building in some separation there, that I gotta put this one a little bit on Big Voice Guy.
- [41:45]
D
It hits home. We'll beat this thing no matter what it is, you know, I'm not letting anything happen to you. A special Home Improvement followed by the Diet Mug Root Beer Dana Carvey Show.
- [41:55]
A
And the fact it's Diet Mug Root Beer. It's not even their number one product. It's Mug Root Beer's secondary root beer.
- [42:04]
B
Oh, it's so. It's so good. And I was just in tears the first time I saw that. And I'm like. And then when I came across Jonathan Taylor Thomas and Simba and Lion King, I'm like, all right, I gotta share it. Because I was fairly convinced you'd never heard that clip before.
- [42:18]
A
I think maybe I have, but I didn't remember hearing it because I'm old and stupid.
- [42:23]
B
So good.
- [42:23]
A
Oh, my God. Well, that is. And when we say the kind of analysis that you get here on forward progress, unlike anyone else, your Chicago Bears and their opponents is truly, and I mean this unlike anywhere else. No one else is capable of bringing you this kind of in depth analysis on everything for your Chicago Bears. Make sure you join us Sunday immediately after the Bears and Lions. The moment we have an outcome, we are going to go live on YouTube. Subscribe to this podcast. Make sure your notifications are on and that way something on one of your devices or your pants will ring or something will happen and someone will come over and knock your head and answer your pants and say, it's time to turn on Bernstein and a Batacola.
- [43:08]
B
That was a great game, wasn't it?
- [43:10]
A
Answer your pants. Yeah, it was another game that made me nervous.
- [43:17]
B
Ants in your pants.
- [43:18]
A
Ants in your pants.
- [43:18]
B
Oh, ants in your pants.
- [43:19]
A
That made me nervous. Don't break the ice. And the worst one of all. Perfection.
- [43:24]
B
Oh, I love perfection.
- [43:25]
A
Oh, no. It's like diffusing a bomb. Yeah, it was great. Don't cut the blue wire. Oh, I hated perfection.
- [43:32]
B
No, that was good.
- [43:33]
A
Wait, Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick.
- [43:34]
B
Oh, yeah. No. Perfection and operation. Did you like Operation?
- [43:37]
A
Hell no.
- [43:37]
B
Okay.
- [43:38]
A
Hated it.
- [43:38]
B
Really?
- [43:39]
A
It racks your nerves. Why do you think I have anxiety?
- [43:42]
B
Perfection was great, though.
- [43:43]
A
It's probably part of why I'm ridden with anxiety.
- [43:47]
B
Wait, and what did we create today? We've created Juke and put it on the board.
- [43:51]
A
Yes, you can put on the board. Yes.
- [43:53]
B
And also, Jenny, I got your burger.
- [43:57]
A
I also got you fries.
- [43:59]
B
Jenny, I got your burger. Now you owe me 6.95.
- [44:07]
A
I got it. I got the ketchup that you want. I don't know. This is what happens when the mics are off.
- [44:16]
B
Say bye.
- [44:16]
A
Bye.
- [44:20]
E
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- [45:09]
B
Forward progress, a Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312 Sports.