← Forward Progress - A Chicago Bears Podcast
Forward Progress - A Chicago Bears Podcast
Chicago Bears - Minnesota Vikings Monday Night Football Preview
00:43:30
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- [00:02]
A
Ted 219. 219. Forward progress, a Chicago Bears podcast with.
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B
Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312 sports.
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C
What is better than a new episode of Forward Progress? I will tell you, I will answer that for you. It's the first ever live edition of Forward Progress coming your way. Maybe you got that alert because you're a subscriber. You think, well, what the hell is this? Well, it's Forward progress, a 312 sports podcast. I'm Dan Bernstein. That is Matt Abaticola. And you say, who is that handsome man in the middle? Well, that's Phil Mackey. And Phil is part of our sibling network. He really is our sibling network.
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A
Biological sibling. We found out through thankfully for ancestry.com Bernstein yeah, it's the beards.
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B
Don't go to that site until you can tell we're related.
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C
Don't go to that site. You'll end up down a rabbit hole with Kenny G and somewhere down in Belarus. But we are ready to go with Bears and Vikings. Our counterpart here of Score north knows more via his work with Purple Daily and the other 75 podcasts that he does for Score North. Many of them regarding your Minnesota Vikings. And it's here. It's here. This is a crisp, lovely football Sunday. It's a little cool out. We got a little bit of hot coffee and it feels football and hot takes. Oh, the hottest of takes.
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A
Piping. Can I. Am I allowed to, like play my button bar? Whenever someone said, whenever someone says something football on Purple Daily, we hit him. We do hit him with the, the football sounders or is that going to be obnoxious here for the next 30 minutes?
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C
We do obnoxious. It's up to you. We don't, we don't make the rules, man.
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A
Yeah, because I woke up this morning and it was just, this is my alarm this morning. Chris Collins were slid in, was great. Brush my teeth.
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C
I'm set to go. And I know that tomorrow night is going to begin to answer a lot of questions. I have a list of all the questions here regarding both teams. We've spent hours already talking about those Bears questions. So with Phil with you here, here's what I want to ask you. The headline of the Viking season is can the same magic be worked on J.J. mcCarthy as it was, we believe on Sam Darnold? Can this be done again? Did they make the right decision saying, oh, this is the perfect time because we can just make a quarterback out of, out of whole cloth here? We've got this prospect and we spent the draft pick. So my question to you is when we say that this coach can do it again, what. What did he actually do and what can be replicated?
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A
Yeah. You know, just to even back up a step. This is so JJ McCarthy. With the injury last year, we've only seen him play in snippets of two preseason games. Maybe there was a third. I can't remember the first year if he played in two or if the meniscus injury came after the first. But it's. We've seen him for like just a fleeting second in preseason games and at training camp. It's like we've been online dating our new quarterback for 18 months and we. And that's like now we're going to meet in person on Monday night for the first time. It's. This is the most. I think there's a lot of optimism based on the work that Kevin o' Connell has done with Kirk. He had Kirk Cousins tied for the NFL record for fourth quarter comebacks back in 2022 and playing well in higher leverage moments than he had at any point in his career. Sam Darnold's career was on the doorstep of over of being an analyst like the Pac 12 network or something. Or I guess it'd be Big Ten network now because USC's Big Ten and he comes in one year in quarterback rehab school, which we call it here. $100 million contract. So I know that the number is eight and a half for the Vikings this season and obviously injuries. Schedule is really tough. You play the AFC north, all the, all the Bears, Packers, Lions, Vikings all play the AFC North. But if you can win 14 games with Sam Darnold at quarterback and a top five defense that added pieces this off season, I think there's. We try to be really objective and sometimes hard on the Vikings. On Purple Daily we are having a hard time wrapping our heads around the under of eight and a half. If this team stays healthy, McCarthy has to be a league average quarterback and this team wins 10 or 11 games.
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C
Okay, but I'm still. I want to drill down and then find out what it is. What is the secret sauce of working with these quarterbacks? Is it in how he supports them emotionally? Is it how he makes things simple and then complicated? Maybe he hasn't let anybody in to this, but why is he good at it and what does he do?
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A
He provides answers to the test before the snap. So if you were to ask Kirk Cousins, Sam Darnold with this system, with the playbook, with the way that Kevin o' Connell operates in terms of the mental aspect of quarterback play and that. And that mentor relationship. Those guys walk up to the line of scrimmage and they know based on the look, based on the play or the check to whatever would be the counter to the look that they're getting on defense. They essentially know. My first read is a. Is a 75%. But if. But if post snap, I can quickly get to this. He. The way that Kevin said it at his introductory press conference back in 2022, and he was speaking about Kirk Cousins specifically. But this applies to all of the quarterbacks that have followed. He helps quarterbacks play with a quiet mind. When I watch, not to like, completely change the subject. When I watch Caleb Williams last year as a rookie and a lot of rookies are drinking out of a fire hose, it felt like he didn't know any of the answers to the test before the ball was snapped. And he's trying to figure it out on the fly using his athletic ability in this system. And it's.
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C
Shane Waldron didn't know there was a test.
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A
Right.
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C
That's even the problem. There weren't any answers to have.
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B
Well, he was getting bad information.
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C
Ah, he was. No, seriously, he was. He was. He was approaching the line with. I don't know about a quiet mind. I mean, it seemed like everything was on fire all the time.
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A
Yeah. And that's what Kevin o' Connell tries to extinguish that fire before the ball is snapped. Now, you're still going to have moments in games where it's NFL football for the first time, if you're JJ McCarthy, but preparation, understanding what you're looking at, and then understanding how to marry the scheme and the routes and then the things that JJ McCarthy does well, which are over the middle between the numbers three, he's been very good. Getting outside the pocket with his legs, throwing on the run, building that stuff into the playbook so that you're asking him to do things he's comfortable with in addition to knowing the answers to the test.
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B
Yeah. So you just. You touched on it a little bit there, Phil. Where I wanted to go. You've seen McCarthy in practice. I know you go to the Vikings practices. You've seen preseason. I'm not sure how much he's played in the preseason, but from what you've seen so far, and you know you can only take so much from preseason games, from practices, going against your own teams and even scrimmaging other. Other. Other teams. What have you seen about. About JJ that says, all right, these are the qualities you mentioned, a couple that are going to make him a successful NFL quarterback and these are the areas that he needs to build on still.
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A
Yeah, so. So physically, what's funny is people sometimes with J.J. mcCarthy at Michigan and with really anything in sports or life, people sometimes mistake the absence of evidence with the conclusion that, well, if there's, if, if this evidence is absent, it means that you aren't capable of doing the thing that is being talked about.
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C
Sure.
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A
So, so people look at JJ McCarthy in college and rightfully so, they say, well, that's a stacked Michigan team. For two years that he was a starter, they had NFL players all up and down in terms of weapons. Offensive line, their defense was a monster. And so he was a handoff merchant. And because he was a handoff merchant at Michigan and they could just lean into the offensive line and their defense, well, that means he's not going to be a great NFL quarterback. Well, the, the, when he was asked to throw at Michigan, so third and eight, third and must pass or it's a, it is a rare close game in the College Football Playoff. He excelled at the, at the NFL things that you want to check boxes on more than a lot of the other quarterbacks, including Caleb Williams in the pre draft process. So if you, if you kind of zoom out to going into his first game here, 18 months after he was drafted, it's going to be really interesting to see do they let him throw the ball like an NFL quarterback needs to 30 or 35 times a game? Because you can't just go in and throw 17 passes every game in the NFL. That's, that's, you're not going to take leads enough to, to warrant that strategy. Or do they, do they sort of, do they slow cook him in in the first month in and maybe he is a handoff merchant on Monday night against the Bears. Kevin o', Connell though, in three years, even when Kirk Cousins went out with an injury in week eight of 2023 and it was Nick Mullins, Josh Dobbs and I think Jalen Jaron hall made two starts, they were still like fourth in passing attempts. He wants to throw the ball. So that's going to be an interesting.
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B
Now even with his injury last year, how could you argue that it was an advantage for him to sit back there and you know, dealing with those injuries with the injury. But, but to sit back that first season and watch and learn and see what was happening, how can you make that an advantage for him?
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A
Yeah, so he apparently went to school on all of the defensive coordinators and defensive systems that he'll be facing in the division and on the schedule. And just did a ton of like, he, he prepared throughout each week as if he was going to be the starting quarterback. And then he would meet one on one on Thursdays with Kevin o' Connell to kind of go through the play sheets and to even, to answer your question further from a minute ago, what are some of the things in training camp behind the scenes in addition to being able to do some of the NFL things in a small sample in college that you need to do? His arm strength is much greater than people gave credit to two years ago, 18 months ago. He has a howitzer. I mean, I watched Brett Favre as a beat writer back in 2009, 2000, easy. It's not quite Brett Favre prime, but he, his, his issue is not arm strength and arm talent. It's can he layer in the change up? Can he layer in the curveball? When you watch Patrick Mahomes all day, left and right sidearm 3/4, layering something in and then the rocket when you need to, that's, that's more the issue with him mentally. He's a leader. And now to lead, you have to play well, too. You can't just, you can't be Tim tebow in completing 44% of your passes and then try to lead. It's like, listen, we're good on the rah rah, go complete a pass. But he's, he's, he's a touch point guy with all of his teammates. He's the, even when things are going bad at practice, he's the high five guy up and down the sideline.
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C
You used a couple of prepositional phrases I want to revisit there because I think they're immensely significant to the modern NFL offense. And any Bears fan listening right now is going, what's that? What, what is modern offense? What is this term? You said over the middle between the numbers. And when we look at where the yards are in this league right now, yards, which means where, where the points are. And it's not a secret. It's not a secret. It is using the middle of the field with everything being pushed to the boundaries as it is. It is the, like you say, the layering and the timing of throws over the middle, that's, that's where the opening is and the teams that exploit it score. That's why the Bears hired Ben Johnson to see what, like you say, these in breaking routes are more daring they are more dangerous. There are going to be tipped balls, there are going to be interceptions, and they're going to be really big hits on some of your receivers when they're in the zones, when they're in the seams and safeties and linebackers are closing on them. What is it about McCarthy and the way O' Connell teaches that helps create the trust in that timing?
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A
Yeah, you know, I. I'll answer that in a second, but I love the way you frame that, which is. This is. This is where people sometimes watch Anthony Richardson from his. When he was a starter with the Colts, and there was a game, it was like week two of last season, and he drops back pressure in his face, back foot. So momentum going away from the throw. I remember he throws a ball like 75 yards in the air on a dime, and it was a touchdown. And people were like that. That is why Anthony Richardson can be a superstar in a top five. That validates him being a top five. Okay, that was awesome. And there's a lot of quarterbacks that most quarterbacks can't make that throw, but that's not. How are you going to get to 28 points in a game? How are you going to convert 25, 30 first downs in a game? You're not gonna do that one time every quarter.
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C
Well, that's also part of the misunderstanding of arm strength, where people hear arm strength and they immediately think distance.
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B
Right.
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C
When it's velocity, it is effective velocity. Arm strength is. I got the ball to that spot before the safety got there. And it's funny that you had mentioned Favre, and it was the number of times that those of us of a certain age would. Would see a throw where we'd see defensive backs horizontal to the ground almost, and crossing their whole bodies in an X just after the ball went through. And people would say, oh, my goodness, how did he make that throw? Well, because to him. To his targeting computer, it's open that. Because he knew exactly how fast he could get it, how quickly he could get it there. It takes time to learn that. And I hope, and I'm certain that O' Connell is going to allow McCarthy maybe to make some of those mistakes. Ideally, that's happened in practice. Ideally, you want to see that next division game, say, okay, know what your arm strength is when the wind is blowing, or there are conditions, and that's really hard to develop without mistakes.
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A
Yeah. Yeah. Training camp was a testing ground, and it was, by the way, for Kirk cousins in 2022, first year in the system, to Kevin O' Connell would speak to the media after these practices in which the, you know, us probing jackals and the beat writers would say, hey, Kirk threw three interceptions in a red zone drill or, oh, JJ had a rough time out there against the Brian Flores defense. And Kevin will remind the assembled media that, yeah, this is, this is a really. It's like a safe space to throw those interceptions and to test and measure. Is that an open throw that you can make in an actual game or, or do you have to maybe go off to your. Your second or third read in that situation? So I, I would say just to bring it all together, to answer your question, J.J. mcCarthy, when it comes to anticipatory throws, which if you're throwing and working over the middle, those mesh concepts, those tight ends up the seam, those aren't going to just be open all the time and you wait for the opening and then you throw the pass like an Anthony Richardson might. You have to see that based on the way the defense is moving and based on what I'm looking at and where I know that route is going if I put the ball here before that receiver makes his break. So McCarthy is, to this point, excellent as an anticipatory thrower, and that's something. I'd rather have a guy who understands the anticipatory throw, who's a little too aggressive and needs to be reeled in.
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C
Absolutely.
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Than the guy that needs to see it first. And you, you can, I think you can scale back some of the mistakes on the higher end there. You can't teach a guy to see something before it happens.
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B
Now, you just mentioned Brian Flores, the, the defense coordinator for, for Minnesota. We looked at, at Ben Johnson, his time with the, with the Lions. Now he's won. The Lions have won the last four games against the Vikings, three of them really close competitions. Last one last season was not. But Ben Johnson's offense has put up about 30 points in those four games. What does he do well against Brian Flores? And what have the Vikings struggled in, you know, defensively against a Ben Johnson offense?
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Yeah, I think, and I know, Phil.
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It'S two different teams, different personnel, but that there has to be some carryover to it. So what do you see?
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A
There is. So the Lions and the Rams both used a very similar formula that we'll see if the Bears can replicate. And quite frankly, it comes down to Caleb Williams more than anyone else, because with Ben Johnson and with Sean McVeigh, those are the only two teams the Vikings lost to last year with the Lions and the Rams and they lost to both teams twice, the Lions twice in the regular season and then the Rams on a Thursday night regular season and then in the playoffs. And in both cases you had offensive coordinators that were, that were running these mesh concept crossing routes behind the Vikings blitzing defensive front. And you had accurate veteran quarterbacks in Jared Goff and Matthew Stafford that understood, okay, if they're going to send six and, and so there's two extra rushers coming, well then all I have to do is replace the blitzer with an accurate pass over the middle and now it's a 12 yard chunk instead of panicking. So Ben Johnson in terms of answers to the test, Ben Johnson's system has answers to Brian Flores, his test, but it requires the quarterback to identify what's happening to some extent before the snap and then be able to replace that blitzer over the middle. That's where you make your hay against this defense it is those 8, 10, 12 yard up the seam, those crossing mesh concepts between the hashes and between the twenties. And if you start to, I think where Caleb falls into a trap is sometimes he doesn't see it right away and then he flushes out and now he's trying to use his athletic ability, but it's like, okay, you're an athlete, but you're not a Lamar Jackson athlete. This is the NFL. The Vikings have Jonathan Granard, Ivan Pace and guys who can chase you down. So the answers are there.
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C
All right, so Brian Flores total blitz rate last year, 38.9 against Caleb Williams. In the game in December it was 42.9. There are some football defensive minds who will tell you the less you blitz, the better your defense because you're getting home with four and you can line yours up against theirs and you can win. And you can also win the numbers game on the back end of the defense. So is this sustainable for Flores and is it desirable?
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A
You know, my first thought was when they brought so they signed Jonathan Allen and Jayvon Hargrave, two really good veteran interior defensive linemen to come shore up. Their biggest problem on defense last year was they had an 8% pressure rate from the interior defensive lineman, which was easily the worst in the NFL. And because of that they just had kind of random jags along the defensive line that they're pulling from. Jonathan Bullard and Jerry Tillery was an old like Notre Dame first or second round pick.
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C
And we should also say when, when, when our guest says jags, people in Chicago are going to think he means jag off. But no it's jag is an acronym. And I know, you know we love our sports coaching acronyms or scouting acronym. Just a guy.
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A
Just a guy. Yeah.
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C
I needed a whiteboard there. Why is he calling him a jag?
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A
No, no, I would say like your definition of like a jag off is below just a guy.
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C
Correct.
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A
Correct.
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B
100. Yeah.
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A
Just a guy is. It's a playable NFL player that doesn't really move the needle, but they're still going to make NFL paychecks and you need. You can't fill out a 53 man roster with all superstars.
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C
Yeah. Replacement level player.
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B
Yeah, we're very familiar with those in Chicago.
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A
Yeah, I know watching from afar, I, I wholeheartedly agree, but so because they had no interior push organically, they felt the need to ramp up the blitz rates and the chaos and whatnot. But what's funny is even going back to Flores's days as the Miami Dolphins head coach just because. Just because, like, the patterns of the roster may change and while, okay, they've got better interior defensive pass rushers or you can maybe get more organic pressure with your front four because the team is better, that doesn't necessarily impact his blitz rate. He loves to blitz 35 to 40% of the time. And that's another thing we're curious to watch is, well, you probably can get pressure with just sending four and just play it straight up. But I also think part of the reason why they create so many turnovers is because you'll put seven or eight guys up front and the quarterback has to spend time. I've talked to offensive linemen about this, but what makes that defense so difficult and exhausting? It's less about the physical nature of trying to physically block two extra rushers. It's more about 60 or 65 times per game, your quarterback, your center and everyone else has to walk up there and do a math equation. It's mentally exhausting. By the end of the game.
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C
It turns these games into. The games are very pointy games against Flores defenses. There's. Everybody's pointing all the time. Yeah, they'll stop and it's. The center leans back and says something and he points and then he points with the other hand and they say, are you sure you're pointing at the right guy?
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A
Yes.
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C
Do more pointing. No, he should do pointing. And then everybody does that. And I think Flores bring. He brings that out of offenses.
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A
Yeah. And so. And that pointing takes five or ten extra seconds. So just think about the waterfall effect here or the butterfly effect. If you don't get the play call in time or I don't know, not to hit on a touchy subject. Maybe you're not great at spitting out the play in a timely manner or in a way that isn't confusing to your teammates. What, so if you don't get to the line of scrimmage with like 15 seconds left to then give yourself time to diagnose, what is Flores trying to do to our offense here? So think about that. 60 or 75. 60. 65, 70 times a game. Well, if you slip up three or four times it could be a pick six going the other direction. Andrew Van Ginkel so it's, it's mental chess as much as anything else.
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B
So because the, the.
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C
I think chess is mental. I don't think there's, I think in that metaphor I would say chess would suffice other than if there is, there is chess boxing however, there is chess.
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B
Well, yeah, when we play chess we punch each other. So since the Vikings had very little pressure up the middle, the Bears decided to go out in the off season and shore up the middle of the offensive line.
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A
Line.
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B
The tackles, you know, we're like ah, fine, whatever. What kind of pressure can we expect and what kind of a game can Darnell Wright and Braxton Jones expect from the Vikings? Outside rush?
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A
Yeah, the big, so the biggest, I mean Van Ginkel and Jonathan Grinard are the two veteran stalwart starting edge rushers. But Dallas Turner was The Vikings other first round pick last year after JJ McCarthy and he played a really low key role last year because a he was a young rookie. It's a confusing defensive system. He maybe played like 250 or 300 snaps. He's looked excellent in preseason and training camp. So I think you're going to see a lot of three edge rusher formations by this defense where it's one or two down linemen, maybe it's a Hargrave and an Allen and then three edge rushers. And then I will, I will just point to Jonathan Grinard specifically. They will move him back and forth depending on who they think the weak link is at tackle. And he very sneakily was an elite edge rushing pressure guy last year. In fact, I think he had the third most pressures of any edge rusher in the league.
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C
It wasn't sneaky against the Bears. There was no sneaky because it's not real sneaky when the quarterback is holding his head and looking at the ceiling.
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A
Yeah, but I think it was like Miles Garrett and another household name like not tj Watt but somebody else and then Jonathan Grinard in terms of total pressures in the regular season last year. So keep it up.
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B
When you look at the, the Vikings wide receiver room, what's, what's your outlook for, for this game with, with Jordan Addison and I know dealing with some injuries even too.
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A
Yeah, it's. If you were, I think everyone, everyone internally and who covers the team saw a three game suspension coming for Jordan Addison. When you, in back to back summers when you're driving 150 miles an hour to get to your sick ailing dog and reporters found out that he was going in the opposite direction of his house. So he may have been telling a fib on that one two years ago.
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C
Well, his dog didn't have to be at the house.
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B
Yeah, dog could be anywhere. Yeah.
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C
Maybe that's why he was sick, because the dog was too far away from home.
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B
He was homesick.
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C
That's what it was.
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A
I'm not sure we ever got closure on the, on how that story played out. And then last year he like fell asleep on a freeway entrance or something and so like you saw the suspension coming. Yeah. But then they, you know, Jalen Naylor, who already has drop issues as the third wide receiver, had like a broken hand surgery and he's ramping up to maybe. So you have a, a broken hand recovery for a guy with a case of the drops. And then a couple of younger players. Ty Felton was their third round pick. He's not ready to be put in there. So they traded for Adam Thielen. And, and everyone's first reaction I think was, oh, he's like 35 years old. He's kind of cooked right? Adam Thielen. Well, I, I know you guys, this is forward progress. We, we deep dive on this show. If you dig into the advanced wide receiver stats of Adam Thielen, he only plays 47. He's terrible. Yeah, he's even worse than you think in terms of yards per route run, in terms of separation metrics, anything you look at, he's not what he was six years ago, but he had, he had measurably some of the best numbers he's had since 2020 or 21 in the 10 games he played. He knows the system. So he's going to be wide receiver two for the Vikings for the first three weeks.
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C
That's funny. I was watching Keenan Allen the other night and I saw him have a terrible drop and my first instinct was, well, Keenan Allen. And then he started getting separation and he started to feel the Groove a little bit. A lot of that is about. To me, I think an older wide receiver is more likely to succeed with the quarterback relationship that even though like Travis Kelsey is another example in that, in that same game that he was awful the entire game and not open and then when it mattered he was able to break free. Like to me, the limiting factor for Thielen is just going to be he's working with a kid that he's going to have to explain to him, look, if this is a read route, I'm going here, I'm not going here. And that's going to take time.
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B
And I think too with the veteran wide receivers, there's only so many times they can turn the engine on in a game. It's just, I mean it's, it's, it's, it's physics. It's, you know, it's mother Nature. So you know, how many times is he going to really, really get that ignition going? It's going to be a lot less as, as games go through.
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A
Yeah. You know, one thing that, that is interesting, it was foreshadowing all along and we didn't know it is. So Thielen still kept his house in Minnesota and, and so he's, he's, he never sold, never sold his house in Minnesota and so him and his.
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C
Maybe he didn't know he was allowed to.
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B
Yeah, he shares rent with Jordan Addison's dog or.
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A
Yeah, that's probably what it is. So, but so he comes back and works out during the dead times in the off season at just, you know, various NFL players he brought like Bryce Young and some others. But the last two summers he's been working out with JJ McCarthy not like projecting that he would be a Viking at some point, but because you just, you just get NFL players who were in town to get together at high school fields and work out. So, so he's been working out with McCarthy just for stretches at a time throughout the last two offseasons. Now maybe that helps them first few weeks.
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B
Maybe. We hope not.
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C
Though when you think of other things that o' Connell is learning, when you've watched his career to this point, is there anything at which you think he needs to get better?
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A
I love that question because on its face, record wise, he has like the fourth best winning percentage of any active coach. Jim Harbaugh's above him. I think Matt LaFleur might still be above him. He's won a ton of. Jim Harbaugh, by the way, has the, the fourth or fifth best all time regular season Winning percentage after the the win the other night. But at this point, the biggest box he has yet to check is winning a playoff game. That's more of a results oriented answer in terms of process. What can he be better at? Running the football and run game scheme. Lions, Eagles, even the packers, what they've done with their running game and there's some other examples across the NFL. It feels like for a while they're running backs and just running the football was so devalued. When you know us analytics nerds would get into front offices and tell you that you should just, you should be passing the ball and. And now I almost feel like it's like in the NBA with the mid range jump shot. You look around the league and okay, Jay Gilgis Alexander has a mid range jump shot that helped them win a championship. If you look at like most of the best players in the league, Kevin Durant, the offensive players, they're still hitting 18 footers because that's a wide open shot now. And I think the league is coming back around. Saquon Barkley had one of the great running seasons of all time. And that's a unique scheme. The way that the Lions with their.
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C
That's not scheme though. That, that I think that is much more individual, spectacular talent than it is scheme. I does not take a genius to have a scheme that says hand the ball to Saquon Barkley.
- [30:25]
A
Yeah, I agree with you on that one. On the Lions front, it's a lot of talent up front with the offensive line and two really good running backs. But it's also an offensive system with so much more motion and misdirection. And we'll see if the Bears can implement something similar. Kevin has had, I don't know if it's. If primitive is the right word, but he has not figured out how to unlock a running game. I mean, you guys saw that there was a game, I think it was the week 18 game for the 1 seed against Detroit and they got to the red zone about five times and most teams would just. If you're having trouble with, hey, Sam Darnold's pulse is racing out of his neck and he's inaccurate run the ball. And Kevin o' Connell did not feel confident enough in the interior offensive line or the scheme to run the ball inside the red zone. So they did wipe out 60% of their offensive line. Added free agents, first round pick and Jordan Mason should help with some of the short yardage stuff. So I'm really curious to see if they can be better as, as a running team and not just be one dimensional. That's, that's probably the thing that I would point to.
- [31:27]
B
And when you look at, on the bear side of things offensively, I know you've mentioned Caleb Williams a few different times, but what is, what is the overall impression of Caleb going into year two up in Minnesota?
- [31:38]
A
Yeah, I mean, I, I'm really curious. I know you guys are going to dive into the, the article and I'm curious to hear the on the ground perspective early this week from, from you guys. And there's a lot of takes on what was written about Caleb Williams. But my biggest, if we put all that aside for a second, Caleb Williams has been awful when pressured, and a lot of young quarterbacks are. So you're trying to figure out, is that just an organic part of being a young quarterback? Peyton Manning, through 30 interceptions, most of them pressured in 1998. Right. Like, do you have to just give grace to young quarterbacks to be bad when pressured? Or is there something missing from his processing and preparation that's leading to him not figuring out what he's looking at? And week one against a Brian Flores defense is going to be one of the toughest tests of the entire season for him as a processor and a quarterback. And also, Ben Johnson's never been head coach before. All the other peripheral things you have to worry about on the sidelines, clock management. Matt Eberfluss was great at that. So I think how does he perform when pressured against the most aggressive pressure defense in the league? Immediately, it's one of the biggest, biggest test he's going to have all season. Yeah.
- [32:55]
B
And I think one thing we can say about Caleb is that he didn't throw a lot of interceptions. Obviously holding the ball too long, trying to make plays at the collegiate level that you can't make at the NFL level. Is it a, is it a matter of processing or is it just a matter of ego that, hey, I can make something out of this play. And then that feeds right into what the Vikings do really well, which is come off the edges and get after the quarterback. And then we have question marks at tackles. It just, it all plays into what could be a really long day for Caleb Williams.
- [33:22]
A
I mean, Caleb last year when under pressure, completed just 44% of his passes for a 65 and a half passer rating. Just for some time, almost Tim Tebow area. Just for some, some Bears context, though, Rex Grossman's career passer rating was like six points higher than Caleb versus pressure. So he went to A Super Bowl. He was along for that Super Bowl. He existed on the field during that Super Bowl. Yes.
- [33:53]
C
Last thing I have for you, Phil, and really appreciate you taking the time and that is the new kickoff rule and what that's going to do for the league. I was been watching in these two games that we have so far. It looks to me like the conventional wisdom is land it in the landing area, have it get to the returner slowly in a way where the returner can't quite get up to speed. And the level of skill at this level of football is such that once teams sort of start to figure it out and once we have enough actionable data to form a sample, we'll understand it. But I get it. Have the Vikings talked about it at all?
- [34:40]
A
They have, but I don't know how much importance they're placing on the return aspect of it. Or are you talking either one? Because the return aspect of it. The. They have. They have rookies returning punts and kickoffs this year. So I. It. It's fascinating to see just more broadly the NFL experimenting. I know they're going to say some of it's for player safety. I also think some of it's for. They want like, another fun play that's not just get up and leave your TV for, you know, eight times a game.
- [35:11]
C
Right. You can't have the opening touchback. You can't have something where everybody gets all excited and then, you know, you get a bathroom break or you can go get another chicken wing there. I get that.
- [35:21]
A
Totally agree. And it is. This is more of a macro discussion about all of sports, but it's fascinating to me that the NFL is willing to just completely uproot a core tenant of their sport for decades to tinker with something. And baseball, it's like takes us 100 years in baseball to figure out certain things that. And then people cling to stats from the 1920s. So Bravo Football for trying something. I still don't know if I fully get the current kickoff model. And I don't know if there's a better I on the.
- [35:50]
B
There is a. There is a better solution. Go back to the old way.
- [35:54]
A
I'm with Dan, though. But then you're getting. You're just blasting it through the back of the end zone.
- [35:57]
C
Kickers are too good and they change the cable rule.
- [36:00]
B
Make it where they're happy returns. Just make it. Make it with happy returns.
- [36:04]
A
So you. If you feel. You feel the ball at nine yards deep in the end zone. Sorry, you got to get Back to the 1.
- [36:11]
C
Or eliminate kickoffs entirely.
- [36:13]
A
Just eliminate them and start at the. Just start at the 25.
- [36:16]
C
Start wherever. Pick an arbitrary. You'll figure out where to start. Just it's. I know that there's all sorts of nostalgic value and romanticism about the idea. It's called football for a reason.
- [36:29]
B
Just.
- [36:30]
C
I would not bother me if they do away with it and maybe they eventually will. I just. Anytime they say it's for player safety, you know they're lying.
- [36:37]
B
It's a lie. Yeah, that's code.
- [36:39]
C
Do you remember when they used to have a. The objective neurological concussion spotter? What happened to that person? That person is not. They used to buzz down when a guy got up a little slowly. I must have seen five times in the last couple of NFL games where somebody is obviously concussed and it's like they'll hit their own teammate, they'll lie on the ground, they'll get up, somebody will help them off and they used to buzz down. Oh, he's been removed from the game. They totally stop that.
- [37:09]
A
Yeah, the NFL is, is genius. If not maybe evil genius at. Okay, people are outraged about something and so let's show, we'll show a little empathy or make an iron fist rule change and then forget about it like 18 months later. Remember when, when Anthony Barr, Vikings linebacker, he tackled Aaron Rodgers on a bang bang play and landed on Aaron with his full body weight. This is like eight years ago. And Aaron broke his collarbone, was out for the season, right?
- [37:36]
C
Yep. That created more bad calls.
- [37:38]
A
And then the Clay Matthews ironically got called for like it was three perfect form tackles of quarterbacks in the first month of the season. But too much of a percentage of his body weight landed on the quarterback and that became a 15 yard penalty for maybe two years in the NFL. Yeah, it's dumb. And then they forgot about it earlier.
- [37:57]
B
About, about during a football game, going back and getting a chicken wing. I'm wondering, when you have chicken wings, do you eat one at a time? Like do you leave the couch, get one chicken wing, eat that, then go back for another chicken wing, eat that, go back for another chicken wing.
- [38:12]
C
The answer to that, believe it or not, is yes, that depending on what the spread is, like I'm more of a grazer where I don't want like grab three or four because I don't know if I want three or four and they're not going anywhere. And maybe, maybe I want one with blue cheese and one with ranch and maybe I'll get a different flavor blue cheese with you.
- [38:31]
A
Do you dip it in the blue cheese and bring it over to where you're sitting, or do you bring a cup of blue cheese or ranch?
- [38:39]
C
I'll pour a little on my plate, and I'll bring it over with me.
- [38:42]
B
I don't use a plate. You pour it right in your hand. You know, you do that. Well, you know I love you, but you're the weirdest dude ever, man. Like, I don't know if I want three or four chicken wings. They're chicken wings, damn it.
- [38:51]
C
No one eats one.
- [38:52]
B
And it's like, I'm satisfied.
- [38:53]
C
I'm eating one at the moment. They're there. They're not going anywhere. I may change my mind.
- [38:59]
A
Maybe.
- [39:00]
C
Maybe the ratio of drums to flats would be off.
- [39:03]
B
See, Phil, this is what I put up with. It's like the analytical process on everything, even eating chicken wings.
- [39:09]
C
It's not just analytical.
- [39:11]
B
He cannot be a normal guy.
- [39:12]
C
I'm not normal.
- [39:13]
A
I have issues on the drummy to wing ratio where. What is the appropriate ratio for you, Dan?
- [39:21]
C
My body chemistry will decide in that moment. I can't tell you right now that I want a 3 to 1 ratio of drums to flats or flats to drums.
- [39:30]
B
I'm probably the minority because I'm all flats. I prefer the flats.
- [39:34]
A
Oh, really?
- [39:35]
B
Yeah, because sometimes on the. On the drums, there's too much stuff I don't want to eat.
- [39:40]
C
Oh, like cartilage.
- [39:42]
A
Like a bone nub or something.
- [39:43]
B
Yeah, all the nasty.
- [39:44]
C
That's the best part. That's the most nutritious part.
- [39:47]
B
Yeah, you eat like a caveman.
- [39:50]
C
Yeah. Like, you can even crack the bone itself and suck the marrow out if you want. Oh, okay.
- [39:55]
B
See, football.
- [39:55]
A
This is.
- [39:55]
B
This is it. This is football.
- [39:57]
C
Yeah. Yeah.
- [39:58]
A
Watching the bra. Watching the Browns and the Titans on Thursday night. Yes, Tell.
- [40:02]
B
Sometimes Dan just goes. He gets a chicken from the backyard and dunks it in ranch and eats the thing live.
- [40:08]
C
It's rustic. It's a rustic preparation that way. Phil, again, thank you for doing this. And this was our first live venture. And there are some people I'm noticing in the YouTube comments saying this isn't really live. I think they should just tell us if this is live. Who is this? Is this our guy? Swaggy McNolegs?
- [40:27]
B
You just said it's live.
- [40:28]
C
Yeah. Come on, Swaggy. Yes, this is live. I'm not gonna lie to you.
- [40:32]
A
You can pop these comments up too. It's great.
- [40:34]
C
Yeah, I mean, I'm here.
- [40:36]
A
This one.
- [40:37]
C
I'm looking at the comments as Goes. Can we pop them up into Streamyard too?
- [40:40]
B
Hey, this is pretty good.
- [40:41]
C
You just did.
- [40:43]
B
Look at you.
- [40:43]
C
Oh, see, Maddie, you got to figure this out for tomorrow night.
- [40:47]
B
Yeah, this is pretty good for a Bears, but it's. It's good. It was good today for a Bears podcast because we had the Vikings guy on.
- [40:52]
C
Right.
- [40:53]
B
So it was good.
- [40:54]
C
So.
- [40:54]
B
So, hey, listen, if you haven't subscribed yet to forward progress, make sure you do that. Subscribe to Dan Bernsten Unfiltered. And also check out our guy, Phil Score North Purple Daily. And he's got 37 other Vikings podcasts.
- [41:06]
A
They do. That's right. One for every year that we haven't won a Super bowl around here. It's great.
- [41:11]
B
Yes.
- [41:12]
C
So tomorrow night, as soon as we can, after the game, or maybe either good or bad, perhaps even before the game is over, we are going to be live right here with post game reaction. Immediate.
- [41:25]
B
Yeah, we'll go early if the Bears are up, you know, three, four, five touchdowns. You know, hey, you know, maybe we'll jump in early. Maybe we'll start at halftime because it's, you know, the game's out of reach.
- [41:33]
C
Yeah. There's a famous story from Purple Daily about doing that.
- [41:37]
A
Five, five years of YouTube post game shows. We went live at halftime once. Colts, 33, Vikings, nothing. Turned out to be the greatest comeback in the history of the NFL.
- [41:47]
B
As you were watching it live, though, dude, that. See, that's a great. So that's just one of those things that just happens. And, and you, you couldn't have planned that. And, And. But it was. I'm sure it's. I'm sure it's one of your highest viewed post games as well.
- [41:59]
A
Yeah. Should Kevin o' Connell be fired halfway through his first season? Oh, looks like it's 33, 14 now. What about the Ed Donatel, should he be fired? 33, 21. Oh, interesting. Yeah.
- [42:11]
C
Should they be extended? Light them up, Phil.
- [42:17]
B
Thank you, buddy. All right, so we'll see you. We'll see you all live tomorrow after Bears, Vikings, Monday Night Football right here live on Ford Progress.
- [42:27]
C
There will be an actual episode tomorrow, too.
- [42:30]
B
Oh, yeah. No. Yeah. We're going to have Ford Progress during the day. We have DBU during the day tomorrow and then tomorrow night.
- [42:35]
C
And let me mention specifically one thing that we are going to devote some time to on DBU right away tomorrow is finding the truth about this piece that was written on him. What it is, what, what it isn't, what it fails to do journalistically as well. Gonna try to take a very objective look at how to contextualize that piece and the information therein. So we thank Phil Mackey. We urge you, Remember, subscribe on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts to forward progress. And to Dan Bernstein Unfiltered. And we're gonna talk to you a lot tomorrow.
- [43:12]
A
It.