Chicago Bears start as underdogs to 1-5 Ravens

Summary

Forward Progress – A Chicago Bears Podcast

Episode: "Chicago Bears start as underdogs to 1-5 Ravens"
Date: October 21, 2025
Hosts: Dan Bernstein & Matt Abbatacola

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Episode Overview

This episode revolves around the puzzling reality that the Chicago Bears, at 4-2, are starting as significant underdogs against the 1-5 Baltimore Ravens. Dan and Matt blend their signature analytical breakdowns with irreverent humor, diving into Bears’ fan frustrations, the development of quarterback Caleb Williams under new coaching, and bigger NFL storylines. The show consistently blends immediate game analysis with broader football context and plenty of sidebars into pop culture and nostalgia.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Vegas Odds: Bears as Underdogs Against the Ravens

Timestamps: 00:20 – 05:57

• The Bears are 6.5-point underdogs despite facing the 1-5 Ravens.
• Dan notes: “I don’t think there is any active disrespect going on here, but it does tell you something… odds makers are begging for you, the Bears fan, to react angrily.” (00:38)
• The conversation suggests this line is not a real measure of strength, but an attempt to shape betting behavior.
• Lamar Jackson and Roquan Smith expected to play, even though Jackson had not practiced.

Notable Exchange:

• Dan: “Do you think the Ravens are going to win this game by two field goals?” (05:40)
• Matt: “Really? I don’t.” (05:48)

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2. Quarterback Caleb Williams: Development, Criticism, and Fan Tribes

Timestamps: 05:57 – 14:56

• Both hosts dissect the polarized hot takes surrounding Caleb Williams' weekly performances.
• Dan reframes Williams’ trajectory, arguing his disastrous first-year coaching essentially means he’s in a ‘rookie season, part two’: “For his entire first year he was coached by dullards… this is the first time he’s really being coached in the NFL.” (06:52)
• Matt adds, “It was the perfect storm of having an incompetent coaching staff multiple times over with a guy who came in with a massive ego… The consistency was really poor.” (07:31)
• There’s exasperation with the hyperbolic swings in fan opinion: "It’s going to get exhausting because every game is this referendum on the entire Caleb Williams thing.” – Dan (05:57)

Caleb’s Own Self-Assessment

(Clip played at 09:05)

• Caleb Williams: “If we complete the passes… I missed about five or six, I think, on the run, which is extremely frustrating for me. I think guys got open and, you know, I think I missed. And I think that’s what it boils down to.” (09:05)
• The hosts riff about getting "players the explosive ball" (Caleb's phrase), spiraling into a gag about explosive footballs and an 80s arcade game, Cyberball.

Host Perspective: Nonlinear Progress

• Matt: “There’s a development here and a long learning curve with Ben Johnson teaching and coaching Caleb Williams.” (12:42)
• Dan: “We gotta exist in the in-between where Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson are. It will be nonlinear. There are going to be good games and bad games.” (13:20)
• Extending leniency to Williams is fair given the context, but expectations can remain high: “You can have very high expectations and also understand reality on the ground.” – Dan (14:36)

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3. Comparisons to Other QBs and the Ben Johnson Offense

Timestamps: 24:58 – 30:07

• They read a detailed tweet comparing Caleb Williams’ first six games with Ben Johnson to Jared Goff’s first six games under Ben Johnson in Detroit.
  • Points highlighted: Goff, even as a seasoned vet, had similar growing pains and stats to Williams.
  • Williams is juggling a more complex offense, unfamiliar personnel, and reworked mechanics.

Notable Quote:

• Dan: “We have an apt comparison with someone who was already a number one overall pick.” (29:15)
• Matt: “That tweet deserves bears on three. One, two, three…” (29:08)

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4. Team Injuries and Defensive Strategy Concerns

Timestamps: 16:13 – 18:06; 17:07 – 18:27

• Tyreek Stevenson injury and depth questions at cornerback.
• Discussion of approaching Ravens’ rushing attack, especially against Derrick Henry.
• Defensive injuries could force Kyle Gordon to start outside.
• Both hosts emphasize that the Bears' recent wins have leaned on turnovers and bounces, a pattern hard to sustain, especially facing the Ravens’ superior run game.

Dan: “I just don’t think the Bears can beat the Ravens like they beat the Commanders and the Saints… It’s really hard to stop Derrick Henry.” (16:04)

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5. Defense, Turnovers, and the Lovie Smith Philosophy

Timestamps: 18:27 – 24:58

• Dan warns about defining a defense only by turnovers: “It concerns me about whether or not you’re entirely dedicated to tough, responsible, aggressive defense.” (22:39)
• The Lovey Smith approach: Secure the tackle first, then target turnovers opportunistically—not at the expense of sound defense.
• Matt: “With the exception of a few plays, they are staying within their assignment and they’re keeping their duties as the main priority.” (22:59)

Humorous Digression:

• Extended bit about “turnovers” (as in pastries) leading to a running gag that “Dan Bernstein hates turnovers.” (21:13 – 22:08)

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6. Pop Culture Asides and Light Moments

Timestamps: 31:00 – 52:15

My Buddy Doll Riff

• The hosts digress into an extended parody of the infamous “My Buddy” doll commercials, improvising increasingly absurd and dark lyrics.
• (Ex: Matt: “He buys crack from my friend. He’s my buddy… why does he have his dad’s gun?” – 33:09)

Weeble Chat

• Nostalgia riff about Weebles (“Weebles wobble but they don’t fall down”), commercial jingles, and misremembered taglines.

Dan’s Dream Body Pillows

• Dan jokes he’d like an Alejandro Kirk or Stan Van Gundy body pillow, “because he always looks like he needs a hug.” (49:08)

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7. Honoring Doug Martin & Discussing In-Custody Death

Timestamps: 37:35 – 41:55

• Brief, somber focus on the death of former NFL running back Doug Martin in police custody.
• Both hosts voice skepticism about the official police press release language.
• Discussion is notably more serious and cautious, emphasizing the importance of transparency.

Dan: “...official statement from the cops is worded like that, it tells me there’s a lot more that we need to know…” (41:11)

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8. NFL Hall of Fame Coach Candidates

Timestamps: 42:00 – 46:36

• Matt lists the 12 coaches moved forward for Hall of Fame consideration, questioning why names like Mike Shanahan, George Seifert, Dan Reeves, Mike Holmgren, and Tom Coughlin aren’t already in.
• Quick sidebar on Hall of Fame voting politics.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Caleb Williams’ Critics:
  “It’s going to get exhausting because every game is this referendum on the entire Caleb Williams thing… I think we gotta realize it isn’t.” – Dan Bernstein (05:57)
• On Coaching Transition:
  “For his entire first year he was coached by dullards and this is the first time he’s… breaking down his footwork.” – Dan Bernstein (06:52)
• On Fan Tribalism:
  “I don’t get it, Dan, because if you criticize Caleb Williams, there’s a group of Caleb fans… and then there’s the guys that won’t see anything positive…” – Matt Abbatacola (08:31)
• On Turnover Sustainability:
  “If turnovers happen to come because you’re flying around out there, great… If turnovers are happening as a function of tough, responsible, hard hitting, aggressive defense, awesome.” – Dan Bernstein (20:43)

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Segment Timestamps

• [00:20] Bears as underdogs, Vegas context
• [05:57] Caleb Williams' development/host perspectives
• [09:05] Caleb Williams audio: self-assessment
• [12:42] Nonlinear progress, fan tribe dangers
• [13:20] Quarterback learning curves
• [16:13] Defensive injuries, Ravens matchup
• [18:27] Turnover discussion, Lovey Smith philosophy
• [24:58] Jared Goff/Caleb Williams-Ben Johnson comparison
• [37:35] Doug Martin passing, in-custody concerns
• [42:00] Hall of Fame eligible coaches
• [31:00–35:10 & 47:06–52:15] Pop culture riffs (My Buddy, Weebles, personal anecdotes)

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Final Tone & Takeaways

• Tone: Candid, analytical, irreverent, authentic Chicago sports radio
• Core Message: Don’t overreact to oddsmaker lines or week-to-week performance – player development, coaching transitions, and team fortunes are complex and nonlinear.
• Unmissable Bits:
  • “Getting players the explosive ball” (Caleb’s gaffe and ensuing riffs)
  • My Buddy doll jingle parody

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A must-listen for Bears fans wanting both substance and a real sense of Chicago sports personality—just don’t expect a straight-laced, play-by-play breakdown.

Transcript

[Dan Bernstein]

Ted 219219.

[Matt Abaticola]

Forward progress a Chicago Bears Podcast With Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312 sports.

[Dan Bernstein]

We give you forward progress on 312 sports we are Dan Bernstein and Matt Abaticola and Forward Progress a Chicago Bears Podcast is brought to you by Beer Church Brewing New Buffalo's Brewery Pizzeria in a historic Church Wood fired Neapolitan Pizza Small batch craft beer brunch every day. Visit beerchurchbrewing.com and on this edition we have some Bears things to discuss. Tuesday is a day to maybe take a little step back. We don't have a ton of information. We don't have any further injury updates. From what we heard yesterday about Tyreek Stevenson and Cole Comet being added to the list as the Bears prepare at 4 and 2 for taking on the 1 and 5 Baltimore Ravens. Ravens and yet the Bears are nearly a touchdown and extra point underdog as they're getting six and a half now. I don't think there is any active disrespect going on here, but it does tell you something. It does tell you that. And I don't care if you're looking at power rankings and how you get your idea of where this blob is right now. This is a Blob matchup. But this is one that at least it seems from the outset that odds makers are begging for you, the Bears fan, to react angrily and say that's too much and we're going to shrink that number by the time kickoff rolls around at noon Sunday.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, and Lamar Jackson still has not practiced.

[Dan Bernstein]

He's playing. They said he's playing.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, but he hasn't practiced yet.

[Dan Bernstein]

Correct. They say Roquan Smith is playing. They say Lamar Jackson's playing. However, even before Lamar Jackson went out, they were struggling defensively. Yes, that's really been the big problem with them.

[Matt Abaticola]

The only thing they've done well so far this year is run the football. They're averaging about 5.3 yards per carry. But still interesting that the bears are getting six and a half points going to the 1.5Baltimore Ravens. And quick programming notes if you are interested in the top 10 Ravens of all time, that'll be on DBU. Dan Bernstein, Unfiltered this Friday.

[Dan Bernstein]

Now I will tell you now that I am going to be including other corvids, other members of the Crow.

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh you are?

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, I'm going to.

[Matt Abaticola]

Are you struggling to get your top 10?

[Dan Bernstein]

I'm not struggling.

[Matt Abaticola]

Okay.

[Dan Bernstein]

But I am going to expand the bounds to include Crows.

[Matt Abaticola]

Okay. The committee. The committee already has a very healthy list of Ravens. Very excited to get the final list of the top 10. And we'll have that for you this Friday on Dan Bernstein Unfiltered, right here on 312 sports.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay. I'm just letting you know that I'm going to extend that. And I believe. I believe Corvid is the correct name for the.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, the Chevy car. The sports car.

[Dan Bernstein]

It'll be Corvette, but I think that's right when we're talking about crows and Ravens. And you know why the Ravens are called the Ravens, Right?

[Matt Abaticola]

Because that's the team name. That's the logo they have.

[Dan Bernstein]

Why are they called that?

[Matt Abaticola]

I don't know. Because they were the. Weren't they the Baltimore Colts? Is that who became.

[Dan Bernstein]

They were the Cleveland Browns, though.

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh, the Cleveland Browns.

[Dan Bernstein]

The Ravens were the Browns. Then the Browns had an extension of the Browns. The Browns. And they got their history back.

[Matt Abaticola]

Right.

[Dan Bernstein]

The Ravens were moved. So they're.

[Matt Abaticola]

Baltimore Colts moved to Indianapolis in the middle of the night.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yes.

[Matt Abaticola]

And then the Browns. So then the Browns became the Ravens. The Browns then became the Browns again when they expanded.

[Dan Bernstein]

Right.

[Matt Abaticola]

Called the Ravens.

[Dan Bernstein]

Edgar Allan Poe from Baltimore.

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh, was he? Okay.

[Dan Bernstein]

Quoth the Raven.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yes. That's. That's good to know.

[Dan Bernstein]

You didn't know that.

[Matt Abaticola]

I didn't know that he was from Baltimore. I didn't know that's why they were called the Ravens.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah. Otherwise you. I mean, it's not really a fearsome animal.

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh, it depends if you're afraid of beer.

[Dan Bernstein]

Of birds.

[Matt Abaticola]

They could be. People are afraid of birds. And if you're going to be afraid of a bird, I would say a raven's right up there. Why a raven? A crow? Because they look evil and they're represented as evil throughout movies and television.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, they can be ominous and foreboding. But they're not Raptors. They're not going to take your dog.

[Matt Abaticola]

Well, no, I mean, that's like a hawk or an eagle would do that.

[Caleb Williams (quoted)]

Right.

[Dan Bernstein]

Because those are Raptors.

[Matt Abaticola]

No, the Raptors are a dinosaur. The Velociraptor.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay, I'm done with this.

[Matt Abaticola]

You started it.

[Dan Bernstein]

I know. I just wanted to make sure that you knew why they were called the Ravens. And it's because of Edgar Allan Poe.

[Matt Abaticola]

Well, yeah, but you didn't need to get into it, though. Why are you going to be mean.

[Dan Bernstein]

To me buried in Baltimore?

[Matt Abaticola]

There's no reason to be mean to me about it.

[Dan Bernstein]

I'm not trying to be. But I also think that the. That it is, it's meaningful. That odds makers have said that it is. That the Bears are a six and a half point dog.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah. I don't buy it. I don't buy it. They're looking for money to come down on that, on that line there. For Bears fans, the Bears should not be six and a half point underdogs to, to the Baltimore Ravens. Not right now. I don't see it. I don't. I mean, do you, do you think it's. It's a fair assessment of where these teams are at?

[Dan Bernstein]

I don't think it really is an assessment of where they're at. I think it's an assessment of what is going to happen. They believe in this game.

[Matt Abaticola]

And do you think, do you think the Ravens are going to win this game by. By two field goals?

[Dan Bernstein]

Kinda.

[Matt Abaticola]

Really? I don't.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay.

[Matt Abaticola]

And we'll discuss it more as the week goes through. We get more information, we'll see how that line changes.

[Dan Bernstein]

This just doesn't feel like a good one for the Bears right now. And a lot of it has to do with what Caleb Williams is still not doing well enough. And it's going to get exhausting because every game is this referendum on the entire Caleb Williams thing. I think we got to realize it isn't. This isn't a week to week decision. They're not gonna bench this guy. And we're seeing it in some of the emails that we get and I keep hearing it from people just anecdotally about that every week. People are swinging wildly when Williams himself is telling you about what is happening, about where I get all of the points that are made about a guy in year two, about what you said, that after, what is it, 23 starts.

[Matt Abaticola]

23 starts.

[Dan Bernstein]

He should be further along. Yes, that's true.

[Matt Abaticola]

Correct.

[Dan Bernstein]

But it's not because necessarily he's doing anything wrong. I think the biggest part is that for his entire first year he was coached by dullards and this is the first time he's. They broke down his footwork. I am treating this as if he's never been coached in the NFL before. I am throwing out everything he heard. He may have been set back last year. The experience is great. The opportunity for all the live speed stuff is great. But after last year, he may have been further away than where he was before the year started.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, I'm not going to disagree with that. I haven't, I haven't thought through that, but I'm not going to disagree offhand with it right now. But he certainly wasn't developed last year at all. I don't know if it set him back further, but I think it was the perfect storm of having an incompetent coaching staff multiple times over with a guy who came in with a massive ego and, you know, the number one pick on his resume thinking that things were going to happen a little easier than they did for him in his first year. He had some great moments last year. He played very well at some games last year, but overall the consistency was really poor. And that carried over into this year. And so I like that idea that, yeah, we can evaluate it that that first year he wasn't coached at all and Ben Johnson saw what he needed to do and he's breaking that down. It's that remodel project that is bigger than he thought. I just noticed after the demo started.

[Dan Bernstein]

It'S going to get exhausting if every game is somehow a referendum on his development. It's nonlinear, but I just don't.

[Matt Abaticola]

I don't get it, Dan, because if you criticize Caleb Williams, there's a. There's a group of Caleb fans that are like, I don't know what you're looking at. He played great. He's a great player. Why are we saying these negative things about him? Why are you being negative about him? And then there's the guys that won't see anything positive about what Caleb Williams is doing. I don't understand the two camps to it.

[Dan Bernstein]

I don't worry about either one of those.

[Matt Abaticola]

No, I get it. But here's the thing.

[Dan Bernstein]

They're not going to engage in good faith.

[Matt Abaticola]

No, they're not. But the point is this. If you, if you're blind to seeing what Caleb Williams isn't doing, well, right now listen to Caleb Williams, especially with.

[Caleb Williams (quoted)]

You know, some of these explosive plays, some of these, you know, mainly talking about the on the run stuff. And I haven't been efficient with those. I haven't been hitting them. I think it just comes down to understand the situation. I think it also comes down to being able to get our players explosive ball. You know, if we, if we complete the passes that, you know, I missed, I missed about five or six, I think, on the run, which is extremely frustrating for me. I think guys got open and, you know, I think I missed. And I think that's. I think that's what it boils down to.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, overall, I mean, that's him from just. From this past game that they won.

[Dan Bernstein]

Getting players, the explosive ball.

[Matt Abaticola]

I didn't catch that the first the first time we heard it through either it. When I heard it this morning, I was like, did he just say he wants to get players the explosive ball? That's. That doesn't sound good. If that's one of Ben Johnson's special gadget plays, like, get someone the explosive ball and then does it explode in their hands and then do they die?

[Dan Bernstein]

Did you ever play the video game Cyberball?

[Matt Abaticola]

I can't recall it. Was that game at all.

[Dan Bernstein]

Arcade game.

[Matt Abaticola]

Okay.

[Dan Bernstein]

It was football. But you had robots.

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh, I vaguely remember robots.

[Dan Bernstein]

And some were more humanoid than others. Some had like little tank tracks on them.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yes, I remember that. Yep.

[Dan Bernstein]

And it was fun. It was well designed. Yeah. And it was kind of cool. And as you wanted, you could upgrade your robots. But when your robots were near their. Their end of their lifespan, they would explode.

[Matt Abaticola]

Maybe that's what happened.

[Dan Bernstein]

They'd start smoking, remember? Not like. I mean, not cigarettes.

[Matt Abaticola]

Taking heaters. My career is almost.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, it's been a tough day out there. No, they would actually literally start smoking. Look. Yeah, look up Cyberball.

[Matt Abaticola]

I loved it.

[Dan Bernstein]

And they would explode eventually. So we had to get our players the explosive ball. Rome, your turn. Oh, man.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah. And you think like, it's a. Like, is this the one that explodes? Maybe doesn't explode or you have to.

[Dan Bernstein]

Run fast because it's going to explode.

[Matt Abaticola]

And then you have to dump it out. Right.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's got the big fuse coming out of it. Yeah. So obviously right in the end zone, then I would understand losing the ball before you get to the end zone.

[Matt Abaticola]

Get right before it explodes on.

[Dan Bernstein]

You have the explosive ball. There is an excuse, but if you. You get the players the explosive ball.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah. I was going back and listening to it this morning and I'm like, did he just say explosive ball? We got to get the guys the explosive ball. I would say, no, I don't like that. Unless you're going to throw. Throw that as an interception. No, a deliberate interception.

[Dan Bernstein]

You get rid of it faster. Like, if you want the ball out, light the fuse. Right.

[Matt Abaticola]

But it only explodes in his hands. So that's why he has to get rid of.

[Dan Bernstein]

Right. He's got to get rid of the explosive ball.

[Matt Abaticola]

And then once it leaves his hands, there's a marker in it and it diffuses.

[Dan Bernstein]

I don't know. Get to that end zone quickly, avoid everybody or.

[Matt Abaticola]

I like the idea of throwing it to an opponent. Someone you don't like. Like a direct interception. Oh, gee, want to get this guy?

[Dan Bernstein]

Hutchinson batted it up in the air and caught It.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah. No. Or he just gets the snap and just pitches it to Hutchinson and explodes in his hands.

[Dan Bernstein]

Guest right again. Or like Chase Young almost did in the first drive the last game.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, I just. But, but here's the thing. That's Caleb Williams talking his own. That's a self assessment and if you're not seeing it because they're.

[Dan Bernstein]

He is.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, he's seeing it. So what are you not seeing that he's seeing? And we're not saying that he's a terrible player. Bust.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's hard.

[Matt Abaticola]

Like it's a process. There's a development here and a long learning curve with Ben Johnson teaching and coaching Caleb Williams and then the guys that, that you can't criticize them at all. What are you seeing? It's just, it's really weird. These two camps that have been established and we discussed it and you mentioned it about Justin Fields was the same thing too. And it's like he's just. I love Justin Fields. I love watching him run with the football. He's just, he's not a good quarterback and it's.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's okay.

[Matt Abaticola]

He's just not. You can still like him and him not be okay.

[Dan Bernstein]

But.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah. This Caleb William things, I just. I don't want to do this every game all season long.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, you don't have. We don't have to. We're not going to. And obviously there's going to be tribalism. There's going to be extreme tribalism in one place or the other and people running interference for their position and doing prison on both sides of it. But we got to exist in the. In between where Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson are. It will be nonlinear. There are going to be some good games and bad games and. Yeah. Am I being lenient in offering a second rookie year? Maybe so. But I know how badly he was under coached and badly he was actively coached. And I trust Ben Johnson to the point where I can. I can show a little grace for both of them.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, that's fine. I. That the amount of currency that Ben Johnson has built with me over these. These last four games is really impressive. So I'm going to give the guy all the leniency that, that we need to see what this year can become for Caleb Williams in his rookie season. Redo.

[Dan Bernstein]

That's all. Yeah. I don't think that's. That's so hard. And I'm also going to continue with that. My very high expectations for him. Yeah.

[Matt Abaticola]

Which can still be. Yes.

[Dan Bernstein]

They're not mutually exclusive.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yes.

[Dan Bernstein]

You can have very high expectations and also understand the reality on the ground of not just lengthening the Runway, they took him off the other Runway, brought him back to the gate, switched out the equipment.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, no. And he had to take that train to Terminal 5.

[Dan Bernstein]

Right. That's what I'm saying. It's like they are. They brought him back to the gate, they've redone everything and now they're pushing back again and setting him up.

[Matt Abaticola]

They rebook him to a new plane, a new airline, whatever new destination metaphor.

[Dan Bernstein]

You want to use in that regard, it's okay to have a reset here.

[Matt Abaticola]

And it can still be true, too, that he should be further along 23 games into his professional career and still have the leniency of expanding this rookie season part two.

[Dan Bernstein]

And that isn't even using the delayed success of others. That if you wanted to. And if you wanted to talk about Sam Darnold, if you wanted to talk about Mac Jones, and I'm not going to include Geno Smith in that because it's very easy to look at other people from his own class. But I think that there's an understanding of how complicated and how coaching entwined quarterbacking can be.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Dan Bernstein]

So I like to think I'm being fair. I'm rooting for him. I want the best for him. And if he sucks, I'm going to tell you he sucks.

[Matt Abaticola]

Right.

[Dan Bernstein]

You know what? Last week he sucked. That the Bears were able to overcome bad quarterbacking.

[Matt Abaticola]

And you know who else thought he sucked? Caleb himself thought he sucked.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yep. And I just don't think the Bears can beat the Ravens like they beat the Commanders and like they beat the Saints. I don't know. I just. It's really hard to stop Derek Henry. And you're going to have to. You got to do it with a heavy box. You're going to need a linebacker in there. I don't think that playing your nickel, especially if you're down Stevenson and you're starting Josh Blackwell, you may have to go heavy and just have your strong side backer. And Noah Sewell's could be down, too. So are you starting DeMarco Jackson again? They've got some difficult decisions to make defensively and the injury to Stevenson could be huge. Does that mean you're going to play Gordon at a boundary corner?

[Matt Abaticola]

Will he.

[Dan Bernstein]

They. They did it in the game because they didn't want Blackwell out there. So I think there. There could be difficult decisions. And what Johnson said yesterday, he said day to day and then he caught himself and said week to week.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yep.

[Dan Bernstein]

He said both. He said day to day, week to week. Those are not the same things.

[Matt Abaticola]

By definition. They're not the same thing. Well, a day is shorter than a week.

[Dan Bernstein]

But weeks have days.

[Matt Abaticola]

They do. But a day is shorter than an entire week, which is multiple days. So one day isn't as long as multiple days.

[Dan Bernstein]

Are you done?

[Matt Abaticola]

No, I'm not done. The Ravens are giving up.

[Dan Bernstein]

Where they at?

[Matt Abaticola]

They're in the bottom third of the league at 4.5 yards per carry on defense.

[Dan Bernstein]

That's what Eric B. Enemy for every carry.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yep. And the Bears are still second to last. They're 31st in the league at 5.2. But they've. They've expanded that lead now over the last place Buffalo Bills who are now. The bills are at 5.8 yards per.

[Dan Bernstein]

Carry.

[Matt Abaticola]

Is no good. That's no good. But when looking at this game. Caleb. Caleb is going to. I think Caleb is going to have to. He's going to have to make some plays, Dan, because you can't count on shutting down the run game again. Not with Derek Henry. And you can't count on getting four turnovers again. No, no.

[Dan Bernstein]

I don't mind coaching. The idea of sustainability if in the locker room Dennis Allen is saying this is what we do. That's great. I, I also, I don't want them selling out for turnovers. I don't want. If you, if you like.

[Matt Abaticola]

How risky can you be going for a turnover to. To. To break what you do as far as your defense is concerned.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah. So it's a really delicate thing to coach even at a high level. And Lovey Smith was great at it. That Lovey Smith's thing was secure the tackle. And once that tackle is secured and good luck securing a tackle on Derrick Henry. But I don't want you riding him at a 45 degree angle down the field or those perpendicular plays where he's car you on one arm and one shoulder while you're punching at the ball and he's Falling forward for 7 yards or 11 yards. That or. And or coaching some of the. Like what Nishan Wright jumping a screen pass to allow the McCaffrey touchdown. Don't do that. And when you are telling a defense that their identity is turnovers, that can't be a thing. That is opportunistic. It has to be cultural. Where for Levy Smith, Day one of camp, it was a cultural thing. The football outside his office. The spring loaded football. That anytime you'd walk deer. This is true. On the wall. A spring loaded Football that you were to smack, smack, smack, try to pull it away. That it was, you know, any ball on the ground, if it's an incomplete pass, if it's anything, if you just see a ball, pick it up and run, Pick it up and score, Pick it up and score. That if it seems like, hey, wait a second, we happen to be getting turnovers now, we're going to say, this is what we do. Let's get turnovers. Will that make your tackling worse? Will that make your coverage higher risk? These are things you have to balance. And there has to be some trust with your team in making sure you're not selling out for turnovers at the expense of responsible defense. If one. If turnovers happen to come because you're flying around out there, great.

[Matt Abaticola]

Within the context of what you're meant to do on that particular play.

[Dan Bernstein]

Function, yes. If turnovers are happening as a function of tough, responsible, hard hitting, aggressive defense, awesome. But that means you're a really good defense no matter what. So it's great to lean into what they've done. Bernstein says he doesn't like turnovers. He doesn't like South Sudan basketball.

[Matt Abaticola]

Well, that you don't.

[Dan Bernstein]

But turnovers, you do like, hate turnovers. I love turnovers.

[Matt Abaticola]

I'm just apple and.

[Dan Bernstein]

Oh, not. I will not rescue them anymore from Mariano's.

[Matt Abaticola]

Why?

[Dan Bernstein]

Bad experience. I had a bad experience. I threw them out, actually. It's one of the few really dessert adoptions.

[Matt Abaticola]

Huh?

[Dan Bernstein]

I adopted some cherry turnovers because no one in the house. I always get cherry because no one eats cherry. No one eats cherry. Like, I love cherry pie. The cherry coffee cake.

[Matt Abaticola]

Okay.

[Dan Bernstein]

Even the jewel cherry coffee cake. I can put away one of those in a sitting. Oh, I can just fire that whole thing down.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

And the turnovers. Bad. Really bad.

[Matt Abaticola]

Well, I'm going to edit that out. Turnover is bad. I have you on tape saying it. Turnovers are bad.

[Dan Bernstein]

Damn that verbal content.

[Matt Abaticola]

Dan Bernstein. That's going to be our new headline. Dan Bernstein, Turnover is bad.

[Dan Bernstein]

I screwed up. I walked right into that one, didn't I?

[Matt Abaticola]

Sure did.

[Dan Bernstein]

I set you up. I set the trap for myself and I sprung it. And now I got my dick stuck in a bear trap.

[Matt Abaticola]

Ouch. It's a Dennis Allen bear trap.

[Dan Bernstein]

Ouch.

[Matt Abaticola]

Those are the good ones. Derek Henry. 439 yards rushing on the season. He's averaging five yards per carry. Yeah. As long. As long as you keep your assignment and not risking the actual assignment and the play itself to go for those turnovers. Yeah. Stay within it. Yeah, that. That right play where he jumped on the. The McCaffrey touchdown. That's one of the just worst examples we saw this year.

[Dan Bernstein]

Tell me if I'm being stupid on this, because when I'm, you know, it's my job to worry about stuff, everything. But. But worrying about a team getting too excited about being the turnover team makes me. It concerns me about whether or not you're entirely dedicated to tough, responsible, aggressive defense.

[Matt Abaticola]

Well, no. And you're. You're fair to have that as a question and a concern, but I think what we've seen, though, with. With the exception of a few plays, they are staying within their assignment and they're keeping their duties as the main priority. And I think without knowing it, without being there on the inside, Dennis Allen is coaching what they need to do. And if the turnovers happen as a byproduct of that, I think that's where they're headed, and that's the way it's supposed to be, and that's fine.

[Dan Bernstein]

That's what I want. I want the message to be, keep doing what you're doing, keep playing how you're playing, and turnovers will result. And the fact that we're getting them is proof that we're practicing hard, we're playing hard, we're doing the right things. When you have a chance to cause a turnover, go for the ball. I love it with pass rushers. I love watching Elite. When you watch Aiden Hutchinson, he's not throwing himself at the core. He's not going for the big hit. He's going for the ball. Tackle the ball, get the ball out. It may not be your satisfying bloodlust as a player or a fan, but it matters more. Yeah, the football.

[Matt Abaticola]

I think one of the most fun guys we've watched this year and maybe watch the entire year, will be that the game that they played against the Raiders and watching Max Crosby and what he does.

[Dan Bernstein]

Oh, man, he's just. He's.

[Matt Abaticola]

He's a really entertaining. I don't know.

[Dan Bernstein]

I thought he got hurt, that he was.

[Matt Abaticola]

I'll have to look it up.

[Dan Bernstein]

He was cut, blocked, and flipped over. And I wasn't sure because he is. He is something to watch. He is one of the guys that every time highlight him and watch what he's doing.

[Matt Abaticola]

He's really fun to watch.

[Dan Bernstein]

I do it with Hutchinson, too. I was doing it last year night. I just love watching him. Yeah, he's relentless.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah. No, I just. I think that as. As the guys keep their assignments, though, in what Dennis Allen wants to do and the turnovers happen, then they buy into it more. They buy more into the defensive philosophy. They buy more into what we're trying to coach and teach on this particular play in this particular situation. And the more guys buy into it, I think the turnovers do come with it.

[Dan Bernstein]

And speaking of last night, the Lions, I should say, and what I was watching last night, I have also read some comparisons looking at the numbers for Jared Goff and how long it took him even as a veteran to learn how to play in a McVeigh type system and sort of comparing where he was. Can I just read you something here? That is some perspective that I thought was interesting and it was a tweet from a Twitter account. Kirsten Tannis, who is. I don't know who she is, but this is a great tweet. It says perspective for Bears fans. Caleb needs to play better. No question the Ben Johnson offense is complex. Per Ben Johnson, it is more complex than what he installed in Detroit in 2022. Now, hey, stay with me on this one. Jared Goff in 2022 was then a seven year vet initially developed by McVeigh, played in the super bowl, already, had been in Detroit a full season, knew the players, knew Ben Johnson, tight end coach and passing game coordinator for him already. Goff knew his offensive line. He'd been playing behind most of them for a year. He had thrown to most of the same receivers and tight ends. In his first six games in the Ben Johnson offense, Goff's average completion percentage was 62.3. He averaged 263 yards passing, 11 touchdowns, six picks, 12 sacks, no rushing touchdowns. Their one loss record in those six games. You remember they were one in five correct?

[Matt Abaticola]

Yep.

[Dan Bernstein]

Caleb Williams in his second year has now had suboptimal rookie development. Two offensive coordinators didn't know Ben Johnson. Ben made major changes to his basic mechanics and where he was taking snaps. Caleb is playing behind only one offensive lineman from his rookie year. Half of his receivers and tight ends are new. In his first six games in the Ben Johnson offense, he has an average completion percentage of 61.19 to 3. Touchdown to interception, two rushing touchdowns sacked 11 times, 225 yards passing per game at one loss record of four and two. Now she says my point in sharing this is not to make excuses for Caleb. The performance has been up and down. His completion rate has dropped in the last three weeks. He's not yet as productive or accurate as his coach, Bears fans or he would like himself to be at the Same time we need to remember Williams is making slash, needed to make slash. Was asked to make many more changes to his footwork. Being under center left foot forward has a much bigger learning curve on pre snap procedure. Reading NFL defenses, incorporating motions and shifts and making adjustments than Goff did in his seventh year in the NFL with Ben Johnson. In some ways, Williams is not only learning the offense, again more complex than Johnson installed for golf, but also getting his rookie level re education and mechanics and basic skills. In an NFL offense. The task is harder and he is more green. Even Goff, who wasn't known for accuracy struggles, had a completion rate that was only 1% higher through six games. Goff was throwing for more yards per game. Says Caleb's total TDs are the same. His interceptions are lower. He has one less sack. The stats aren't far off. 1. We all want more progress and keep the analysis in mind. It's only been six games with Ben Johnson. It doesn't mean he shouldn't be playing better. It doesn't mean Ben isn't making progress. He told him get comfortable being uncomfortable and he was more aggressive in how uncomfortable. He's made Williams because that's the best thing for him.

[Matt Abaticola]

You know that tweet deserves bears on three.

[Dan Bernstein]

One, two, three.

[Matt Abaticola]

That's good stuff.

[Dan Bernstein]

I really like that analysis and I think it's fair. I don't think it takes a side, but I think comparing his, we have an apt comparison with someone who is already also a number one overall pick.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yes, right. Yes. Right.

[Dan Bernstein]

Wasn't he, I believe number one overall pick.

[Matt Abaticola]

I know Stafford was, wasn't he?

[Dan Bernstein]

I'm pretty sure Goff was. You can check it, but my memory is not great at my old age. It seeps out of my ears and down my shoulders and onto the floor.

[Matt Abaticola]

But you are correct, my friend.

[Dan Bernstein]

2016 a number one overall pick 10 years ago. So I like that.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, no, that's really good stuff. Good information.

[Dan Bernstein]

Kirsten, I don't know who you are, but that's really good stuff. I think that's probably worth a follow.

[Matt Abaticola]

Avid sports fan is what it says.

[Dan Bernstein]

Mm. And pretty good. And I don't, I don't think that is trying to. To do public relations for him. I don't think. I don't think that comes from a tribalist perspective. I like it. That came from somebody. Well, a friend of mine sent that to me in my White Sox group chat. So.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, we gotta get into that sometime. Your White Sox group chat a couple times. You've mentioned it now. And they're spread out all over the country.

[Dan Bernstein]

Childhood White Sox fan friends. Okay, so we all. We're all. It's. It's like some of my closest childhood friends. One is a college buddy also, and it always started complaining about the White Sox, and it's ended up being just sort of a childhood friend. Sports group chat.

[Matt Abaticola]

Are there any. Any camp guys in there?

[Dan Bernstein]

One, but he only went for two. Your camp wasn't. Camp was not for him.

[Matt Abaticola]

Okay, then he's fine.

[Dan Bernstein]

Any.

[Matt Abaticola]

Any other camp guys or is he.

[Dan Bernstein]

Different chat.

[Matt Abaticola]

Okay. Yeah, I was gonna say keep those separate.

[Dan Bernstein]

The camp chat is different.

[Matt Abaticola]

Keep those guys in a different room.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yes.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, we have different fandoms in the camp chat, too. Yeah, because we got to. We have a. We have an insufferable Browns fan who actually was in.

[Matt Abaticola]

Where In.

[Dan Bernstein]

In the camp chat.

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh, really?

[Dan Bernstein]

Yes. Okay. And he was actually on. We had him on as our celebrity. Paul Adelstein.

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh, yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

The actor who is a. A Browns fan.

[Matt Abaticola]

Okay.

[Dan Bernstein]

Hardcore knowledgeable. Every game, every minute. Browns.

[Matt Abaticola]

Poor guy. I saw on. I think it was Twitter. Maybe it was TikTok going through our stuff today. There was a reporter asking people coming out of the jets game.

[Dan Bernstein]

I saw it, and that young kid saw it. He was brilliant.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, he was great. He was like, I hate this team. I was born into it. And, yeah, it was really good.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's like what Jason says about being a Bears fan. Sometimes he says the same thing. He said anything bad that happens in his life, he'll say it's because I'm a Bears fan. Yeah.

[Matt Abaticola]

How. How old is he in? 22.

[Dan Bernstein]

He'll be 21 on Christmas, so.

[Matt Abaticola]

21. Okay. So 20.

[Dan Bernstein]

And then he'll be able to actually buy alcohol.

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh, yeah, that's right. He. He's. He's only 20, so, yeah, so he. He was too. Too young to understand the Lovey Smith Bears, obviously, you know, I mean, we're still living off the glory of the 85 team, Dan. Yeah, you are. I mean, you talk about it every day. There's two things Dan talks about when he comes in on a daily basis. One is how much he hates turnovers. And two, the 85 Bears. He was like, if this team just had the heart and the passion fire of the 85 team.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, you know, if you could swing the camera around and show my shrine to Henry Wachter that I keep over here. Matt thought it was a little weird, but come on.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah. I don't know who you love more, the Bears or your old Doll. My buddy, my buddy climb up a tree and smoke a heater with me. My buddy. That was good. That was good. St we had going there. Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

We were playing that commercial and singing.

[Matt Abaticola]

Along to it, but it wasn't. It was not safe for work unless you're listening to this podcast.

[Dan Bernstein]

We were changing the lyrics. They tried to market a doll to boys.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, my buddy, right? They climb up a tree. He goes everywhere with me. He buys crack from my friend. He's my buddy.

[Dan Bernstein]

Why does he have his dad's gun? My buddy, my buddy, he does this thing with his penis. That's weird.

[Matt Abaticola]

I like that. He owed us money. We were looking for him with a gu. If you see my buddy, call me.

[Dan Bernstein]

I bought him some smack and he stiffed me.

[Matt Abaticola]

Got his girlfriend pregnant.

[Dan Bernstein]

My buddy and me.

[Matt Abaticola]

Then he gave her chlamydia. The whole thing. All right, well, that's.

[Dan Bernstein]

Mom, I don't like this doll. Why does this doll have a 3 percenter tattoo?

[Matt Abaticola]

Keeps smoking in the kid's room.

[Dan Bernstein]

I had it right.

[Matt Abaticola]

No, no, you had it right.

[Dan Bernstein]

Teach him everything that I know.

[Matt Abaticola]

My buddy and me like to climb up a tree. My buddy and me we're the best friends that could be. My body. He's got some pipes, man. My buddy and me.

[Dan Bernstein]

My buddy from play school and he shows him having a distance pissing contest. My buddy, My buddy got served underage at the bowling alley.

[Matt Abaticola]

Mommy, why is my buddy in your room with you? Don't tell daddy. That's my buddy too, pal.

[Dan Bernstein]

Right? It started out as your buddy with little.

[Matt Abaticola]

Now it's our buddy and his name is Daryl. Mommy, is your friend Daryl coming over again? Daryl? Who's Daryl, honey?

[Dan Bernstein]

He climbed up a tree.

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh, he's being silly, sweetheart.

[Dan Bernstein]

Why did he climb up a tree with binoculars, though? Oh, boy. Sorry, I didn't mean to derail this.

[Matt Abaticola]

Oh, no, I did it. Okay.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, I derailed this. Yeah, you did. Can we get to the. This is not exactly the. The greatest segue in the world.

[Matt Abaticola]

No, this is not a good lead in.

[Dan Bernstein]

But no, you know what I'd like to do first? How about that before.

[Matt Abaticola]

Let's reset ourselves, you know?

[Dan Bernstein]

Reset?

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

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[Matt Abaticola]

It's, you know, it's unfortunate. And I, and I know, I like, I know people that are in law enforcement and they're good people and I think majority of people in law enforcement are good people, but it's unfortunate that I read something like this and I immediately just have a negative thought to it. That when someone of color is taken in police custody and diesel.

[Dan Bernstein]

It'S all passive voice.

[Matt Abaticola]

Not the way it's supposed to work.

[Dan Bernstein]

Every time. It's all in the passive voice when they start saying things just happen. Where he later died, he became unresponsive. How did he become unresponsive after being taken into custody?

[Matt Abaticola]

And I, and I get it. And I know that there are people that are going to hear this and say, well, he was a former football player. His nickname was Muscle Hamster. I get it. And it's a dangerous situation at times for law enforcement to be involved in that. I don't know the circumstances of how they found him. He clearly had mental health issues he was dealing with.

[Dan Bernstein]

We don't know if they were related to football or related to cte. We don't know, don't know.

[Matt Abaticola]

And don't know what the condition of the scene was when they entered that house that he, we know, two houses down from his own helmet at 4:15 in the morning. I, you know, and again, I've never been in that situation. But, you know, there are tasers, there are things you can do. I just don't. It's hard to not envision a guy being restrained and dying while being restrained.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's possible becoming used. Yeah, there were negative outcomes to that also. Correct.

[Matt Abaticola]

But it just, it's, it's. I don't like that that's where my brain goes immediately. But there is a history that we have recently that that's where my brain goes.

[Dan Bernstein]

I don't think that's unreasonable. I just understand that when a, when an official statement from the cops is worded like that, it tells me there's a lot more that we need to know that maybe will, maybe it's fine. Maybe it's just too bad. And there was an unfortunate sequence of.

[Matt Abaticola]

Circumstances that this is the exclamation point on an unfortunate series of, of years in his life, post NFL career.

[Dan Bernstein]

Maybe they took all the right steps and it's just a bad outcome. But I just I think it's fair to ask for more.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah. And we'll certainly keep an eye on that and wait for more to come through. But it's just, you know, after being detained, became unresponsive, it's just, it's. You skip some things you don't like to. Like to read.

[Dan Bernstein]

You skip something.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, for sure.

[Dan Bernstein]

You said you had a little. Little cookie for me here. I do have a little cookie.

[Matt Abaticola]

There is a. A hall of fame vote that will take place for the Class of 2026 for the NFL hall of Fame Football hall of Fame. And 12 individuals, Dan, in the coaches category have moved one step closer to the election as part of the pro football halls class of 2026. Okay, so the list starts at 15. It gets narrowed down to 12. It will then get narrowed down to nine finalists. Just want to share with you who the current list of 12 former coaches are. Bill Arn Sparger. I don't know if you know that name. Okay. Bill Belichick. Tom Coughlin. Alex Gibbs, Mike Holmgren, Chuck Knox, Buddy Parker, Dan Reeves, Marty Schottenheimer, George Seifert, Mike Shanahan, Clark Shaughnessy. Wow. Yeah. So if only one guy gets through, there's a few names that I'm wondering, why aren't they already in the hall of Fame as a coach? Like Mike Shanahan, Like George Seifert, Dan Reeves.

[Dan Bernstein]

Holmgren.

[Matt Abaticola]

Mike Holmgren. Tom Coughlin. He won a Super Bowl. Like Bill Belichick. I know he's just now eligible.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah. It's not current Bill Belichick.

[Matt Abaticola]

It's not the current guy.

[Dan Bernstein]

Whatever this going on right now.

[Matt Abaticola]

Did you see the way they lost the game the other day?

[Dan Bernstein]

I certainly did. Lopez over the middle, ball comes out at the very end, loose in the end zone. Cow football. It is ruled a touchback Nathan Leacock.

[Matt Abaticola]

Zone. So, yeah, the tight end was gonna. He's about to cross the. The goal line for the winning touchdown.

[Dan Bernstein]

Nathan Leacock.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

Not to be confused with Pete Lockhock.

[Matt Abaticola]

No. Was he French?

[Dan Bernstein]

No. Pete Lecoq?

[Matt Abaticola]

No. Nathan Lecock.

[Dan Bernstein]

Nathan Leacock.

[Matt Abaticola]

So the tight ends about to cross the goal line for the game winning touchdown, gets knocked out. And it was inside the one yard line.

[Dan Bernstein]

Oh.

[Matt Abaticola]

And then just recovered by two cow players. What a terrible way to end. So I think, I think he's just now eligible with the rules to get into the hall of Fame. But I thought some of these guys.

[Dan Bernstein]

I'm sure they didn't suspend the rules for him and do like a Wayne Gretzky thing. Where just, like, I just put him in.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah. Yeah. Like, the fact that he has to go through committee or whatnot is just. It's kind of.

[Dan Bernstein]

Kind of take anything away from his NFL career.

[Matt Abaticola]

No, not at all.

[Dan Bernstein]

Whatever's going on out there now is toast. And, like, that thing that they can say what they want about how they believe that's. That's done. Right? Like, that's got to end somehow and soon.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah. But, like, how is Chuck Knox not in the hall of Fame? I don't know.

[Dan Bernstein]

Ground Chuck. I don't know.

[Matt Abaticola]

I mean, NFL Coach of the year in 73, 80, 84, 193 and 151. Record, 22 seasons, including the playoffs. Coach the Rams, the Bills, the Seahawks. I mean, Dan. Dan Reeves, Marty Schottenheimer, he didn't. We never won a championship, though.

[Dan Bernstein]

Nope.

[Matt Abaticola]

Right. Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

No, he. He was an AFL champion as a player.

[Matt Abaticola]

Okay.

[Dan Bernstein]

But, no, he was Coach of the Year in the NFL in 2004. He's been AFC coach of the year, UPI in 86 and 95.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah. Like, shot and George Seifert, Mike Shanahan. How are they not in already?

[Dan Bernstein]

It's just.

[Matt Abaticola]

It's weird. But this is something we'll keep an eye on. We'll see. Bill Belichick comes out on top of this list. I know. You're pulling for it.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Abaticola]

You know.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, I know. It's okay. They're different.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, I know. No, no. He.

[Dan Bernstein]

He.

[Matt Abaticola]

Certainly. Not even a question. Not even a question.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's going on now, but.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, just. I was reading the story, and this list of guys that are eligible, it's like, how are they not in? It's just. Yeah. I don't get it.

[Dan Bernstein]

The guy we could talk to. We could have Jack Silverstein back on who knows all of the NFL politics of glory. That's one of his wheelhouses.

[Matt Abaticola]

Okay.

[Dan Bernstein]

Understanding what these votes mean, what they signify, what each threshold and each level. Because I remember talking to him about Steve McMichael and about. With that. He knows the ins and outs and who votes for what and what committee is where. So.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah. And I wasn't as familiar with Clark Shaughnessy, who was the head coach of the bears from 51 to 62, well before my time. Credited with modernizing the T formation and other offensive and defensive innovations.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay. We'll never forget the way you modernize the T formation. Clark. Sean, the CEO.

[Matt Abaticola]

Need to get him a My Buddy doll.

[Dan Bernstein]

My buddy. My buddy and me. Yeah. Who. Who came up with that idea? You Know, boys would love a doll that they can go climb a tree.

[Matt Abaticola]

With and smoke heaters.

[Dan Bernstein]

It doesn't say that.

[Matt Abaticola]

They didn't say it. But you watch the commercial. He's up there lighting.

[Dan Bernstein]

Look, here's your choice. You can have a doll that's a boy if you really want it. Or you could have all of these baseball cards.

[Matt Abaticola]

I'll take a doll. It's fine. Some. Some boys probably wanted dolls. I didn't have a. My buddy.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's okay. I just know that I saw the commercial. I was like, I'm not interested.

[Matt Abaticola]

No.

[Dan Bernstein]

No, thank you.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, I don't like cigarette smoke. So things just smoking the whole time.

[Dan Bernstein]

Last night I got. I got kicked out.

[Matt Abaticola]

Maybe those were the ones sold in Berwyn only maybe that's why you smoke. Yeah, the ones in Berwyn. Yeah. That came with, like, a switchblade and a pack of heaters. Maybe that's why I didn't want one.

[Dan Bernstein]

What are you saying? The ones the. My buddy. It was targeted to your exact demographic.

[Matt Abaticola]

Well, it was the area you were in.

[Dan Bernstein]

So mine would help you study for your budget.

[Matt Abaticola]

Came with books.

[Dan Bernstein]

My buddy helps me learn my Haftorah portion. My buddy teaches me how to invest money and understand compound interest at a young age.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, and my buddy in Berlin would teach us how to steal things from the convenience store, cross the railroad tracks in front of a train, smoke heaters.

[Dan Bernstein]

My school helps you study for your science project exam. Yes.

[Matt Abaticola]

My buddy tells you to blow off class. My buddy.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, My buddy reminds you you have an orthodontist appointment.

[Matt Abaticola]

My buddy says teeth don't matter. My buddy. Yeah, see, it's all based. See, that's a song I knew. Even the songs are different. We had.

[Dan Bernstein]

Show them the Berwin one.

[Matt Abaticola]

Run, run.

[Dan Bernstein]

The Berwin one.

[Matt Abaticola]

My buddy, my buddy he'll get you in a gang and get you shot My buddy. Yeah, so.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay, cool.

[Matt Abaticola]

We ride in the Cicero with my buddy.

[Dan Bernstein]

So listen, I got. So last night, Alejandro Kirk was up.

[Matt Abaticola]

Okay.

[Dan Bernstein]

We're watching the game and Alejandro, what.

[Matt Abaticola]

Did you do to annoy somebody in your house?

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay, Beth looked at me. She goes, well, that's an interesting looking athlete. And I said, yeah. And I explained that he's on my list of people of whom I want a body pillow. I would love to have a big Alejandro Kirk body pillow.

[Matt Abaticola]

That's pretty good.

[Dan Bernstein]

I like to lie in between that and my Stan Van Gundy because I really want a Stan Van Gundy body pillow. That's pretty good because I just Adore him. And I think he always is in need of a hug. He's the most in need of a hug person I've ever seen.

[Matt Abaticola]

You know, we could make that.

[Dan Bernstein]

Because he's always exasperated, and there's always. You know, he's like. He's in a dress shirt, the tie's undone, his sleeves are pushed up. He just. He always looks like it's the end of the day. Like, he's been on sales calls all day.

[Matt Abaticola]

You just walk out the door, though.

[Dan Bernstein]

For the first time.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

And he said he just had a rough one. And you just. It's okay. It's okay. Come here. You just want to give him a hug and, like, a slice of pie. So she sees Alejandro Kirk, and I say, he looks like a Weebler. And I said to her, I said, you remember Weebles? And she goes, of course I remember Weebles. And I said, do you remember the slogan? And she goes, yeah, Weebles wobble and they all fall down. I said, no, that's completely wrong. It's Weeble's wobble, but they don't fall down. That's the point of the Weeble.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, that's the slogan.

[Dan Bernstein]

And she's like, no, she's like, oh, yeah, but they.

[Matt Abaticola]

Weebles wobble, but they don't fall down.

[Dan Bernstein]

She said, weebles wobble and they all fall down.

[Matt Abaticola]

No, that's your guy, your college, your tight, your tackle that you're scouting. Something Harky or whatever. Isn't. What the hell is his name?

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, what was that? Wrote it down. I love him. Yeah, he's gonna be good.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, he's gonna fall down because he's not a wobble.

[Dan Bernstein]

Singing the commercial from Weeble Circus. Remember that? I don't imagine going to the Weeble Circus. Good time all around. Right over there is Wobbles Weeble. He's the circus clown. Something, something, flying trapeze. He jumps off, easy as you please. Something. Something about Wobbles. The clown Weebles wobble, but they don't fall down. And then she said, get out of here. You can't kick me out of my own house.

[Matt Abaticola]

That's the right.

[Dan Bernstein]

She said, not the house. She goes, you do a lap. It's like kicking me out of the Face off circle. He's like, just leave the room for a little while.

[Matt Abaticola]

So in 1975, the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade introduced a balloon of the standard Weeble design, which lasted until 1978. Almost 20 years later, balloon sees with the Weebles characters Tibby Tooney and Bumpus. Made their debut.

[Dan Bernstein]

Tibbs.

[Matt Abaticola]

Ice. A Tom Thibodeau Weeble. Wait, why is he going after ice? Ice?

[Dan Bernstein]

No, he's. That's the alert tone on the apps. Yeah, the outlawed apps that tell you where if ice is coming to your neighborhood and people blowing whistles. Yeah, the alert tone is Tom Thibodeau screaming.

[Matt Abaticola]

I thought Thibodeau was calling ice.

[Dan Bernstein]

Ice. Oh, calling ice on people.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, it's like pointing, directing ice. Got it. Got it, Coach.

[Dan Bernstein]

We're on it.

[Matt Abaticola]

That's good.

[Dan Bernstein]

It'll take us a while to get there.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah, no, you're right. Weevils wobble, but they don't fall down.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay, so I'm right.

[Matt Abaticola]

So you're right about it.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah. She said weebles wobble and they all fall down. No, don't be bad. Weebles.

[Matt Abaticola]

That's. That's another nursery rhyme, isn't it?

[Dan Bernstein]

Yes.

[Matt Abaticola]

Ring around the Rosie.

[Dan Bernstein]

Right. Which is about the Black Death.

[Matt Abaticola]

And then they all fall down because you're dead.

[Dan Bernstein]

I think so.

[Matt Abaticola]

Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

Right?

[Matt Abaticola]

You die.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah. You're covered with open sores and you die. Right. Okay.

[Matt Abaticola]

A really good death. Jesus.

[Dan Bernstein]

What? That'll do it for our.

[Matt Abaticola]

And you're welcome.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, you're damn welcome. Because that went some places.

[Matt Abaticola]

It did.

[Dan Bernstein]

And we never know. That's the cool thing about. Forward Progress, a Chicago Bears podcast. 219.

[Matt Abaticola]

219Forward progress, a Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matabeticola on 312 Sports.