Chicago Bears start the toughest stretch of season beginning in Philadelphia

Summary

Forward Progress - A Chicago Bears Podcast

Episode: Chicago Bears Start the Toughest Stretch of Season Beginning in Philadelphia

Hosts: Dan Bernstein & Matt Abbatacola
Date: November 25, 2025
Podcast Network: 312 Sports

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Forward Progress, Dan Bernstein and Matt Abbatacola break down the critical stretch ahead for the Chicago Bears, who travel to face the reigning Super Bowl champion Philadelphia Eagles. The hosts blend deep football analysis with authentic fan emotion, examining expectations for franchise quarterback Caleb Williams, dissecting offensive and defensive adjustments, and challenging listeners to raise their own standards for the team. The conversation also includes rich insight into Bears culture, player development, and the razor-thin margins defining playoff football.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Bears Enter Their Toughest Test Yet

• [03:50] Both hosts agree: “This is the most important game of their season” (Matt). The 8-3 Bears face the 9-2 Eagles—the reigning Super Bowl champions and current NFC #2 seed.
• Dan reflects on the national response if the Bears pull off a win:
  “National Bears-gasm… If they're not on board yet, everybody's gonna rush to, to fluff them, to glaze them if they win on Friday.” [03:08]
• Matt downplays the hype but emphasizes expectations:
  “I don’t care what the national media says… Now is the only season that matters. This one right here. Go to Philadelphia. Kick their ass. Go to 9 and 3. Jump up in the playoff picture for the NFC.” [06:38]

2. Evaluating Caleb Williams: Talent, Criticism, and Growth

• [07:52] Matt stresses that “doing enough, making enough plays to win games is not enough… for Caleb Williams.”
  He expects Williams to be the best QB in Bears history—low bar, but still a serious demand.
• Caleb’s own drive is clear:
  “Caleb Williams, to me, is the most talented and has the potential to be… the best quarterback to ever wear a Bears uniform, which is not hard.” – Matt [08:56]
• Discussion of postgame locker room interaction with Williams and Ben Johnson:
  Williams initiates, “We gotta get better,” after a strong statistical outing (three TDs, no INTs).
  “So I hear that… and I know, I think that Caleb knows what’s coming from his coach. He did it in the press conference… about missing routes… He already knows this.” – Matt [11:43]

3. Playoff Realism and the Cost of Margin-Based Wins

• The Bears’ 6-1 record in one-score games raises alarms.
• “You’re not going to margin your way to winning a Super Bowl.” – Dan [17:36]
• The Chiefs’ regression is cited as caution: 11-0 in one-score games last year, but now 1-5 and out of the playoff picture [14:12].

The Emotional Pain of Playoff Losses

• Both hosts stress the unpredictability and heartbreak of football playoff exits, compared to gradual endings in baseball/basketball: “There’s not the pain of being unceremoniously kicked out of the playoffs and feel like you never belonged there.” – Dan [17:40]

4. Setting a Higher Standard for the Bears

• Matt insists:
  “Don’t be satisfied with surpassing expectations. Win the damn Super Bowl. Have that mindset as a Bears fan.” [21:07]
• The conversation turns to Bears history, the fleeting nature of team windows, and how quickly fortunes can change (e.g., Aaron Rodgers’ Jets injury).

5. Ben Johnson’s Offensive Philosophy & Player Development

• Coach Ben Johnson audio and analysis:
  • Praises CB Nishan Wright for both run support and impact plays [23:47].
    “He’s really playing sound football—run game and pass game included.” – Ben Johnson
  • On Ozzy Tripillo’s development at left tackle and O-line resilience:
    “If you’re not a starter, you really need versatility… all over the place.” – Ben Johnson [25:11]
  • Pass pro and run game insights:
    “Pass protection was awesome… our run game wasn’t quite as efficient as we’d like it to be. And yet our pass game, we were able to find enough plays there to somehow score 30 points.” – Ben Johnson [26:56]
• Discussion of how play action and middle-of-field throws set up explosive gains—a key in Johnson’s system [28:22].
• Matt: “We talked about this now for 11 games about Caleb's ability to pass in that middle and then deep middle…”
  • Both see improvements, but want even more consistency—especially with high-leverage throws.

6. Philosophical Differences: Rhythm Throws & Quarterback Preparation

• Ben Johnson’s response on “rhythm throws” for Williams:
  “For some guys I’ve been around, it’s… quick game. Get the ball out. Each guy's a little different. I don't know that's the answer for Caleb.” [33:10]
• Dan’s analysis: Johnson doesn’t want to waste possessions or cater the gameplan for ‘rhythm’—he wants explosives from the jump.

Improving Middle-of-the-Field Accuracy

• Johnson:
  “It’s an area that [Caleb] has improved dramatically… since I got here… trusting the fact that he can turn his back to the defense and yet still flip around, make a decision whether he can pull the trigger or not.” [36:33]
• Dan underscores the need for catchable balls in stride to unlock game-flipping YAC (yards after catch) plays.

7. Humor & Notable Tangents

• The ongoing joke about Caleb Williams being too hard on himself:
  “Why does Caleb not like Caleb?” – Dan [31:16]
• Locker room dynamics: Critique of Bears President Kevin Warren’s postgame presence:
  “It’s got real jock sniffer.” – Dan [10:22]
• NFL epilogue: Coverage of Monday Night Football’s “penis punch” incident—clear marker of the show’s comedic candor [40:01-44:57].

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Go to Philadelphia. Kick their ass. Go to 9 and 3. Jump up in the playoff picture for the NFC.” – Matt [06:38]
• “Making enough plays to win games is not enough, in my opinion, for Caleb Williams.” – Matt [08:10]
• “You’re not going to margin your way to winning a Super Bowl.” – Dan [17:36]
• “Don’t be satisfied with surpassing expectations. Win the damn Super Bowl.” – Matt [21:07]
• “He’s really playing sound football—run game and pass game included.” – Ben Johnson on Nishan Wright [23:47]
• “I think he’s done a really good job of handling [versatility]. I think all our guys… it’s a big credit to our O-line coaches.” – Ben Johnson [25:11]
• “I don’t care what the national media says… Now is the only season that matters.” – Matt [06:38]
• “Caleb comes up, gives him like a playful shove… immediately says, ‘We gotta get better.’” [09:57]
• "If you’re not a starter, you really need versatility. These guys are all over the place—right side, left side, center—so you continue to grow.” – Ben Johnson [25:11]
• “There’s not the pain of being unceremoniously kicked out of the playoffs and feel like you never belonged there.” – Dan [17:40]
• “Win the damn Super Bowl. Have that mindset as a Bears fan. Don’t be satisfied…” – Matt [21:07]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:08 – Dan predicts national reaction to a Bears upset win
• 03:50 – Establishing the magnitude of the Eagles game
• 06:38 – Matt: “Now is the only season that matters…”
• 08:10-09:32 – Matt on expectations for Caleb Williams
• 09:43-13:45 – Locker room dynamic & “We gotta get better” story
• 14:12 – One-score games, playoff regression, Chiefs’ cautionary tale
• 17:36 – Dan: You can’t win a Super Bowl on the margins
• 21:07 – Matt: Demand more than just surpassing expectations
• 23:47-25:11 – Ben Johnson praises Nishan Wright; O-line versatility
• 26:56-28:05 – Offensive balance, chunk plays, and play action
• 33:10 – Ben Johnson on rhythm throws for QBs
• 36:33 – Johnson on Caleb’s improving middle-field accuracy
• 40:01-44:57 – Monday Night Football “penis punch” incident
• 47:14-48:45 – Holiday programming update and show plugs

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Tone & Style

The show is candid, analytical, and irreverent—balancing football expertise with Bears fan insight and self-aware humor. The hosts’ chemistry is palpable, and their knowledge of both the franchise and the game shines through in a style that is accessible to both hardcore and casual listeners.

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For New Listeners

Whether you’re tracking every snap or re-engaging as a fair-weather fan, this episode captures the Chicago football conversation at a crucial crossroads: Are these the “same old Bears” or is something genuinely special brewing at Halas Hall? The answer might just hinge on how they seize the moment in Philadelphia—and whether Caleb Williams, Ben Johnson, and the rest can learn, adapt, and elevate before margins and luck run out.

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For more Bears insight and post-game reactions, subscribe to Forward Progress and DBU on 312 Sports.

Transcript

[A]

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[A]

You'Re thinking Forward progress. Come on. 10219 219Forward.

[B]

A Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt abetic cola on 312 sports. We give you forward progress here on.

[A]

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[B]

Your ivory tower, Mr. Harvard Broadcasting.

[A]

Here we are. There's all sorts of noise going on over here.

[B]

Yeah. What's going on?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

It's supposed to be a quieter week.

[A]

I know Sherman and Tingle were doing their show and then Janda walked in and then Tingle started yelling. It's all in good fun. I don't know what's going on.

[B]

It's loud though. It got really loud trying to do professional work here.

[A]

I know, but there's all these good FM voices being really loud and then all the salespeople are these. There's like, you're not supposed to be here. It's a holiday week Tuesday. I know, but it's a holiday week.

[B]

Yeah, we're not like kids in grade school. You get the whole week off.

[A]

CPS gave them all.

[B]

No, my kids are off. They have this. I think it's the second or third year where the whole week is off.

[A]

I think CPS just started that.

[B]

Yeah, this is. It's new. Newer for us, too. Like a whole week off for Thanksgiving. You can just go to school to Wednesday. Come on. Seriously. I'm serious. Why do you need Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday off of Thanksgiving week?

[A]

Pretty soon you'll just get all in November and December off.

[B]

Yeah, pretty soon we know schools anymore.

[A]

So I mentioned on dbu. I took a sanguine approach on DBU earlier today and said, what if the Bears win this game? And I thought national Bears gasm. If they're not on board yet, everybody's going to rush to. To fill eight. The Bears to fluff them, to glaze them if they win on Friday. I don't think they're going to win on Friday. And I made it very clear. I just want them to play well. I just want them to represent well and be ready for the occasion and play well. I don't think that's too much to ask at all. But there's no question what this game is.

[B]

Yeah, this is the most important game of their season. Now, I know that they had that terrible loss to Detroit in the second week of the season. Everyone was getting their footing. Everyone was gelling, coming together. They were trying to find the same page to read from together.

[A]

But we're gelling like a felon.

[B]

No, but they are now. Especially the interior of the offensive line. But this is the biggest test they're facing so far this year. 8 and 3. They're taking on the current number two seed in the NFC. The current reigning super bowl champions. Yeah, it's very loud, right? Like I thought these were studios were soundproof. Where you go? Wait, where are you going? We're doing a show. Come back in here. Hey, moron. We're recording a show. Why? You just can't walk away.

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

Well, actually, you want to go find out what's going on?

[A]

I was trying to find out. You can go if you want something going on. Program directors in there. Janda is in there. I don't mess with Janda. That's a Marconi winner. He beat you over the head with her. Marconi award.

[B]

Yep. So, biggest test of the year. Eight and three going to Philadelphia, number two seed, reigning super bowl champions. I think the Steelers gave the Eagles a blueprint of what not to do and how to attack the Bears. The Steelers threw one pass, one attempt in the middle of the field.

[A]

I think the reason early was to make the linebackers, whoever they were, run side to side in pursuit, find angles and just see if they could test their eyes with stuff with candy in the.

[B]

Sure, I get it Early. But Mason Rudolph didn't attempt one pass from 12 to 15 yards in the middle of the field.

[A]

Well, that's where the yards are in football. The Bears are doing it.

[B]

Not one.

[A]

The Eagles will do that.

[B]

The Eagles will do that for sure. The Eagles will do that for sure. Now I am. I am holding the Bears to a standard of going there to compete and win this football game on Friday. There is absolutely no reason why they can't win this game. You could give me a myriad of reasons and you can list all the reasons why. Why you think they're eight and three quarterbacks. They played the teams that whatever you want to do that, you can. You can do that. And that's a legitimate argument to make. But at 8 and 3, you're going to the playoffs. You have a chance to win and play for a Super bowl this year. I don't care if it's your first year as a head coach. I don't care that it's your second year as an NFL quarterback. You've played now 28 games as a quarterback in the NFL. How much longer do we need to. Oh, relax. It's fine. He'll hit the open targets. He'll put his footwork. You know what? There is no time. The clock's ticking. There's no guarantee that you're going to get 8, 9, 10 wins next season. Now is the only season that matters. This one right here. Go to Philadelphia. Kick their ass. Go to 9 and 3. Jump up in the playoff picture for the NFC.

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[C]

You.

[A]

You're gonna, you're gonna get your national Bears gasm that you've been craving.

[B]

I'm not craving it. I don't care. I, I don't care what the national media says, Dan. I don't care what you say about the Bears.

[C]

You.

[B]

I have my own thoughts and feelings and what I see. And I'm telling you what I see is what I know in football. And you know, Caleb Williams has made enough plays to win games for me. That. That level of play is not enough for that guy.

[A]

No, he said it.

[B]

Doing enough. Making enough plays to win games is not enough, in my opinion, for Caleb Williams. Am I happy he's making the necessary plays to win the games and go six and one in one score games this season? Absolutely, I am.

[A]

Who's getting to you?

[B]

Who's. Nobody's getting to me. Who's bugging you? No, no, but nobody's. Nobody's bugging me. I'm just. It's like, it's just. This is what I think of what I see in Caleb Williams. I expect, you know, what if, if I expect more of Caleb Williams than you do out there listening. Great. That's great. Watch it how you want to watch it. This is what I see of a guy and I. Caleb Williams, to me, is the most talented and has the potential to be, and I think he will be the best quarterback to ever wear a Bears uniform, which is not hard.

[A]

It's not hard, but to be better than Jay Cutler.

[B]

But, you know, Yeah, I mean, right now it's Jay Cutler and he's going to pass Jay Cutler as the best quarterback for the Chicago Bears, period. That I believe that 28 games into his career. So I'm not willing to say, you know what, it's okay if he's missing open receivers. I'm not willing to do that. I'm not willing to do it when Caleb Williams isn't willing to do it, when his coach isn't willing to do it, when his teammates aren't willing to do it. When Kevin Byard said last week the offense needs to get better. Do we hate Kevin Byard now?

[A]

No, I think Caleb Williams hates Caleb Williams because he says he's got to get better.

[B]

Well, you saw the, the exchange in the locker room after the game on Sunday, Dan, between Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson.

[A]

Yeah, I did. It was interesting. And that was the. That was before good, better, best.

[B]

Before, good, better, best as hell. Yeah.

[A]

It's as they're arriving, as they're all getting to their lockers. He's walking in as Johnson walks in. And Caleb comes up, gives him like a playful shove.

[B]

Yeah. Well, he high five some guys. He kind of brushes off Kevin Warren, who's there in the middle of it all. And outside, I mean, they bring it up. God damn it.

[A]

Kevin Warren is just. Get out of there. Are you going to see there after losses?

[B]

I don't hug guys. I don't know.

[A]

It's one thing. Stand in the back. Don't.

[B]

I mean, as an executive like that.

[A]

You're the president and CEO of the team.

[B]

It just. It's got real jock sniffer.

[A]

It's. I know. This is. This is splitting hairs. If you are the actual owner, I don't mind George McCaskey doing that. This is your toy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're the owner.

[B]

It's been in your family for decades and decades. You are the owner.

[A]

It's your locker room when you hire somebody to represent you. This is not. Kevin Warren's just a businessman that they.

[B]

He's a guy they hired to build a stadium.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Here's your shovel.

[A]

There's something.

[B]

Go start digging.

[A]

I never. If Jerry Jones wants to be the general manager. If. What is it Carly Ursay.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Wants to wear. That's your team. You're the owner.

[B]

Carly Gordon Ursay.

[C]

I think.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Do what it.

[A]

Go ahead. Yeah. That's not. But. But to be. You're just a hired gun. You're a mercenary. You're a guy. You're not.

[B]

Whatever. So Caleb Williams goes up to Ben Johnson. He shoves him, and then they go to embrace and he hugs him. And Caleb Williams immediately says, we gotta get better.

[A]

Did you say I or we?

[B]

We.

[A]

We got to be better.

[B]

We. We got to get better. Now, this was coming off a rating of over 103 touchdowns, zero interceptions.

[A]

Unsolicited.

[B]

Yeah, unsolicited.

[A]

Because Ben is saying, great job. I'm. I'm so proud.

[B]

I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you.

[A]

So proud of you. Great job.

[B]

So I hear that. I see that interaction and I know. I think that Caleb knows what's coming from his coach. From his coach that when they sit down and talk about tape and watch the game and review it and talk about his plays, Caleb already knows what's coming because he did it in the post game press conference with the media. Talked about him not being in rhythm early. Talked about. About missing routes that he's been hitting lately, that I need to do a better job with it. He already knows this he's saying the things that we're all seeing.

[A]

It reminds me of the time that I got home from work. I think Jason was a 8th grader freshman in high school. The time I got home from work. And he is standing in the foyer.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So he's waiting for you when I walk in.

[B]

Okay. He has.

[A]

He heard the key go in the door.

[B]

What did he do wrong? Let me ask that.

[A]

And he's standing there.

[B]

Okay. What did he do wrong? He did something wrong.

[A]

He was practicing bump and runs in the basement with his eight iron.

[B]

Okay. Oh, boy. And what. Okay, what did he. A lamp, a light fixture.

[A]

Just the, the tv, the corner of the drywall on the corner of the wall.

[B]

Okay. Where there's the, with his iron.

[A]

Where there's the metal strip in the corner. And it chunked into the metal strip. Paint on either side.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he just, he wanted me to walk in. He's like, before you go downstairs and see it, want to let you know, here's what happened. Yeah, I did it. This is, he walked me downstairs.

[B]

This is where the crime took place.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Held up. But. Because he wanted to rip the band aid off.

[B]

Yeah. And so that, that's, that's kind of the vibe there with Caleb walking up saying, we got to get better. And like, because you know, Ben saying, congrats, you know, I'm happy. I'm proud of you. You know, let's, let's talk about and celebrate this win right away. Hugs him. We got to get better. Because the coach. I know it's coming.

[A]

Oh, we got to get better.

[B]

I know it's coming.

[A]

So.

[B]

But yeah, I thought that was, that was, that was interesting. But you know, even, even Caleb is saying that I have to get better. I can do better. I shouldn't miss those, those passes. And because here, here's the thing about these one score games like the Chiefs last year, Dan. 11 and oh, one score games. You know what? The Chiefs are now one in five, one and five this season on the outside of the playoffs looking in. The Chiefs and the Lions on the outside looking in right now.

[A]

There's a lot of luck in sports.

[B]

There is, there is. And The Bears are 6 and 1 in those one score games. You know, and that's great that Caleb Williams has the ability to overcome that, to not let that pressure get to him. Okay. But let's, let's take the easy ones too. Let's take the easy ones that are handed right in front of you. Let's take the easy ones that are on A tee when your guys open and you have a clean pocket. This was the least pressure he was of all season. He had the one quarterback hit.

[A]

That's why I love the way the.

[B]

Pass protection was awesome.

[A]

I love how this sets up. There's so much building up to this game. There's so much questions, concerns, all legitimate. All legitimate questions and concerns that aren't necessarily going to be put to rest if. But if Caleb has his best game as a pro, which I would love to see in front of this audience.

[B]

I would love to see that, this.

[A]

Team, that building this day, this season, this is a huge Bears game.

[B]

Because I know the kid has the ability to be an exceptional quarterback in this league. He has the ability to be an mvp. That's the talent I feel like he has, and I want to see him displayed consistently. I'm not asking for perfection. And I know quarterbacks miss passes. That happens. But you can't have five or six or seven in a game where he'd love to have that one back. That defeats the whole purpose of the saying, wants to have that one back. That's the one play where a guy beats your guy deep and you just overthrow him, or you under throw it or you miss it. That's the one play. You can't have five or six or seven of those where your guys open and you have a clean pocket and you have good footing to throw the football.

[A]

Certainly not this week. You can't. You could last week.

[B]

Well, yeah, you could. I mean, yeah, you did and you did. And you won and you won and you won and you know what? And you still gave them opportunities at the end to tie the game, though, which frustrates me. I think they're finished the games off, too, man.

[A]

You know what? I don't want to get too bogged down in this, but I also think there's just. For whatever reason, there's too many people who don't really remember what it feels like to lose in the playoffs and how much it sucks, how excited you get and how quickly your season just over. In football, it's not a series. It's not like baseball, where after you.

[B]

Build up and you say, well, if this game's it, this could be the.

[A]

Final game, you know, baseball, it's also. Even if you get swept, even if it's, you know, with a Blackhawks getting swept by the Predators or the Cubs getting swept by the Mets, it's still you. It sinks in gradually where after, okay, we're down three. Oh, it's very unlikely. We're coming back when you're down 2. Oh, here's what the odds say. Here's what the history says about the chance, your chance of coming back, you know, all that stuff. And you get to kind of. You get to kind of live that. Like when the Bulls last made the playoffs against. They knew they were going to beat the Bucks. They had one spasm of a game that they won, but other than that, it was just kind of this, you know. You know, but not only that, football in football. It's the doink in football.

[B]

Yeah. It's Hugh Douglas, the one spin of the ball.

[A]

Jim Miller, it's the one playing your season's over. And that's why when you talk about luck and you talk about the ability to keep it out of those one score situations, to not have to win all the time on the margins. You're not going to margin your way to winning a Super Bowl.

[B]

No, you're not. That's never going to happen.

[A]

And I just think there's not the pain of being unceremoniously kicked out of the playoffs and feel like you never belonged there. Like the 13 and three Dick Jaron bears, that kind of thing. And you say this is all our good luck. We got to max it out because this is it. I want to balance all of that with the feeling that being ahead of the game and you, I think, remind us that every season's precious in that way.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Precious. That you may not get back. People do get hurt. Bizarre things happen.

[B]

Because not everyone's the Chiefs that go to the super bowl three years in a row. That that's not the norm.

[A]

No.

[B]

And if you have a chance this year, you have to get after it. You can't be satisfied that they've surpassed the expectations of what the experts said they were going to do this year. Oh, the Bears were supposed to win five to seven games.

[A]

Bull. Well, I can say the Bears were.

[B]

Supposed to play 17 games this year. They played 11. So far they're eight and three.

[A]

They're.

[B]

I did six games to go.

[A]

I will say this. I did not think they were going to be 8 and 3. I didn't. This is surprising to me. They're better than record wise than I thought they were going to be.

[B]

Okay. And.

[A]

And especially after two games.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When I was calling him Ben Nagy.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Especially after two games when they should.

[B]

Have been against the Vikings in week one. And then you get destroyed by the Lions.

[A]

Yeah. If you had told me, I mean.

[B]

What if the Bear. The Bears could be nine and two, right now you have that stupid game against Minnesota and game the first week of the season, everybody at home on Monday nights. But.

[A]

But I will say that where they are right now to me is a very pleasant surprise. But it does not mean that everything's just kind of okay now. It's a lot of games left. A lot of season left.

[B]

Yeah, I mean you're. I mean, mathematically, Dan, you can still finish eight, nine. I mean, it's.

[A]

Oh, I know.

[B]

Wait, is that. No. 8 and what is it, 8 and 9? 17.

[A]

Yeah, it's six games left.

[B]

Yeah, six games to go. But I'm more on the side of your 8 and 3. You're going to the playoffs. You start 8 and 3, you go to the playoffs. Last time that happened, where didn't happen was 1996, the Chiefs in a 16 game season. You're going to the playoffs. You can go out there and contend for a Super bowl this year because you're one of seven teams and in the NFC that will have a chance to make the Super Bowl. Stop going with this whole idea of, well, they were supposed to win this many games. No, they're supposed to play 17. You go out and you win as many as you can and this team right now is 18 of 11.

[A]

You're going to change your mind if on Friday they get Molly whopped.

[B]

It's a big test. It's a big test with a Super bowl winning quarterback. A guy who's gone to the super bowl twice in the last three years, four years, whatever it is for the Eagles. I mean, and this, this, I mean, if you're talking about the top of the nsc, it's the Eagles. They've been the top of the nfc. They went to the super bowl two years ago and lost to the Chiefs. The Chiefs have been the top in the AFC. The Eagles have been the team to represent the NFC consistently. The 49ers have been there. Those are two teams they get to play this year on their schedule.

[A]

I didn't.

[B]

Those are two good tests for the Bears.

[A]

49Ers are not all that impressive last night at all.

[B]

Well, then go beat them too.

[A]

Yeah, that wasn't much.

[B]

Don't be satisfied with surpassing expectations. Win the damn Super Bowl. Have that mindset as a Bears fan. Don't be satisfied that they've won more than five games, that they've outlasted what Matt Eberfluz did last year at five wins. Who gives a shit? That's last year. And next year you may not win Five games. You never know. Aaron Rodgers gets signed by the jets and he blows out his Achilles in the first game of the season. Their season is destroyed, that relationship severed and ruined. And now he's gone. He's in the Steelers. You don't know about next year.

[A]

Things change fast and take advantage of this year. And it mentioned the Vikings. If you look at what has being said about the. How derailed this year is and people are wanting Max Brosmer to come in and people are done with JJ McCarthy after where they had been and where they are now. They got their quarterback. They made their decisions. They got rid of other better quarterbacks.

[B]

They were 14 and three last year.

[A]

With a young, hot coach that everybody thinks is a quarterback whisperer.

[B]

And you can't tell me with Sam Darnold going into that season, they were expected to win 14 games. They, well, surpassed expectations. And yet. And you get your rookie quarterback in there now, and I told you last week, if he wasn't hurt, he would have been starting. Who's their veteran backup that they have for the Vikings? Yeah. Carson Wentz would have been the starter. That's where they're at. They want Max Brosner Starting now that JJ McCarthy has regressed so, so, so.

[A]

Poorly.

[B]

Or has progressed so poorly. And he's regressed really well.

[A]

Yeah, he's awesome.

[B]

His regression is awesome. He's the best regressing quarterback in the NFL. His progression has just been terrible. And I know he's had some injuries to deal with as far as trying to learn how to be an NFL quarterback. I get that. But they were 14 and three last year.

[A]

Did you, did you see, you know how he, J.J. mcCarthy was calling himself Nine?

[B]

Yeah. It's probably a bad time that that came out.

[A]

Some of the memes and I don't know where my son finds these, but during games he'll just, like, pick up his phone and show me something. There was a meme. They had J.J. mcCarthy making his, like, angry face.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it said, this is the facial expression on nine right before he throws Kevin Byard an absolute mess melon. There's so many super snarky NFL meme sites and he is taking the brunt of it, man. He's taking a lot of it right now.

[B]

All right, let's get to some Ben Johnson audio. This first one's for you, Dan. This is Ben Johnson on Nishan Wright.

[C]

Is how much he's influencing the run game as well. He's so. Not to mention, I thought what's undersung about what Shawnee's doing right now is how much he's influencing the run game as well. He's coming up, he's tackling the ball carrier, they're throwing a bubble screen and he's knifing through and making a play there. And so he's really playing sound football and really run game and pass game included. So that was good to see. Special teams stood out to me in a positive fashion there.

[A]

I thought, okay, where'd he go? Yeah. Nishan Wright, what do you have to do to get a game ball? That would have been the question. What does Nishan Wright have to do with all of those hosannas for his support in the run game and one of the greatest interceptions you're ever going to see. What does he have to do to get a game ball?

[B]

He needs Kevin Warren on the line.

[A]

I think his coach and father figure has to get murdered. We'll see if that happens. No, you missed that opportunity and you gave one to Kevin Warren instead.

[B]

Well, again, let's, let's just. I'm going to hold on to the fact that they did it privately. That's what I'm going to. I'm going to believe that to be true. All right. Ben Johnson was asked about Ozzy Tripillo, getting him ready to play left tackle. And then he goes on to talk about the O line as a whole.

[C]

And what's the process been like to.

[B]

Get Ozzy ready to play left tackle? Because the last practice, the last full.

[C]

Practice we got to see at the end of the preseason, he was second string right tackle. What have the last couple months been like? Well, we've bounced them around, you know, anytime if you're not a starter, if you're not a starter, then you really need versatility. And so these guys are all over the place. Right side, left side guys are playing center. I mean, it's in and out and that's how you continue to grow over the course of the season. And so he's done a really good job of handling that. I think all of our guys, you know, Jordan McFadden was up and active yesterday and he would have been a guy if his number was called. We would have had a lot of confidence in as well, whether it's out at tackle or inside a guard. And so it's a big credit there to our O line coaches and the job that they've done all year long getting these guys ready to play.

[B]

Potential left tackle there and Ozzy Chapillo, see how that plays out.

[A]

Yeah, I'm. They've made such an investment in Benedet and they've worked with him.

[B]

Dan.

[A]

I want to hear from Dan. Dan Rosher. We don't get to hear from him. But every time I see him quoted, it's pithy. He's always saying something. He doesn't shy from it. He answers questions. I would love to hear from him on whether or not. Because I just don't know why you'd invest what they've invested in the development of Benedict if the whole idea was just for him to be a placeholder for Tropillo for just as soon as they thought your pillow was ready.

[B]

Well, that may not have been their intention. And also you talked about. I mean, he just talked about the versatility of guys and getting them ready for more than one position. And you got to be ready to go wherever you're needed if. If that's the case too. So Ben Johnson on the. The Bears offense on Sunday against the.

[C]

Steelers offensively was really proud about the pass pro. That's a really good unit. Their front is in terms of getting pressure on the quarterback. And I thought across the board for the. For most of that game, our guys kept them as at bay as I had seen on tape so far this year. And so credit to Ozzie for stepping up and have not played a lot of ball yet this year. And he did a. Played a really solid game for us. And you know, I thought it was. It was really good. So our run game wasn't quite as efficient as we'd like it to be. And yet our past game, we were able to find enough plays there to somehow score 30 points. And so would like to finish that game a little bit better on offense. Had a couple of possessions there in the fourth quarter where felt like we could close it out and we came up short.

[B]

So run game wasn't very efficient pass game. Found enough plays to somehow score 30 points. That's not the kind of offense that that guy wants.

[A]

No. And they work hand in hand because. Oh yeah, his pass game getting big chunks of yards should move safeties back. When safeties move back, the run game should improve.

[B]

Yeah. And he likes to work off play action. He likes to get, you know, he's going to want Caleb Williams under center more to get more of those play fakes. That's what, that's what his offense is designed to do. And yeah. And they have to be more effective running the football. That does lead to those opportunities to take big chunks down the field in the passing game.

[A]

I think it can start in the other direction as Well, I know traditionally it has been start with the run game to find that I think his works in both directions that they can. It opens up the run game because of what where they're throwing some of those passes, how they are using the deep middle. Because that it's no secret. That's where the yards are. That's where the big plays are against modern NFL defense.

[B]

That's why I'm so surprised middle Arthur Smith didn't take anything in the middle. One pass attempt in the middle of the field when you had, you had three reserve linebackers playing and then one of the reserves goes out.

[A]

You know what else happens in the middle of the field? And I want you to think back to the Bears Lions game, what working the deep middle does the medium middle and the deep middle, that's where you run after the catch.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You don't do that on the sidelines, outbreaking routes. You don't get yards after the catch unless something weird happens like significantly bad, a missed coverage spin move. But it's all of the in breaking stuff. When you watch the Lions, when you watch a lot of these teams, in breaking stuff creates separation before and after the catch. Look how the Bears beat the Bengals because of where Colston Loveland made that play, where they threw it and how they got it open. And it's all defined there. That's where the game flipping plays are. They're not on the edges. Yeah.

[B]

And it helps having Jordan battle in the show too. Jesus. Yeah, and we talked about, we've talked about this now for the 11 games about Caleb's ability to pass in that middle and then deep middle in the medium level middle and then the deep middle passing. You know, always said they want to, want to keep those a little bit lower. You know, I've made the comment in preseason about getting those passes up a little bit too high is going to get somebody killed. But working the middle of the field between the numbers and getting that ball down a little bit with a little more accuracy is going to be huge. To getting those big chunks that, that Ben Johnson wants. We got to keep getting better. Like I said, you know, it starts.

[A]

With me on my side and then.

[B]

You know, we'll keep growing from there. Caleb, come on. Stop, man. Just stop. He's just, he's being way too hard on himself. But also understand that we have so.

[A]

Much left in the tank and we.

[B]

Can be so much better. Caitlin, I don't know why he's doing that. That's really gonna make me mad. Like, just stop, stop. Doing that to yourself. I'm worried about his mindset. Like, why would he hug his coach right away and say, we got to get better? You just. You won a game, Dan, and you had three touchdowns and no interceptions.

[A]

Yeah, listen to Modest Bou Zealous and Jalen Smith. Why don't. Just be happy, man.

[B]

What do you mean you got to get better? Just be happy. You're eight and three. You stop that, Caleb. You stop being silly.

[A]

Why does Caleb not like Caleb?

[B]

He's being silly. I'm going to talk to him.

[A]

Caleb, what are you doing? Don't you know the drill? You're not allowed to say Caleb isn't the greatest thing of all time right now. You're not allowed.

[B]

Here's Ben Johnson.

[C]

Caleb was talking last night about missing some throws that usually doesn't mess when his accuracy is a little wonky. Is there a way to kind of get him unstuck there? I know you've talked over the year about once we get that first, first down, some of that can get in the rhythm, too. Well, I think that's a little bit of getting to know particular players. It's for some guys I've been around. It's, hey, well, let's just give him a couple completions on a quick game. Let's go to a quick game and get the ball out of his hands. Quick and shorter throws get him back on track, getting a rhythm. Each guy's a little bit different, you know, I don't know that that's the answer necessarily for Caleb. I have some thoughts on that, but I do think he settled down once. Once we got through a few of those missed ones, and he ended up making some big ones for us as well. So something we'll continue to work through when the play action is right. They give burden on a post and he throws high. Is that a catchable ball, do you think, or. I would like to see it brought down a little bit. Yeah.

[B]

So that's the play we talked about when you said it's, you know, we said with Luther, it went through your hands, but yeah, you got to bring it down a little bit. And we talked about maybe a 60, 40, 70, 30, 80, 20 split on that.

[A]

See, he doesn't really believe in what. What he just said right there. Yeah, the idea of some easier throws get him into a rhythm. He doesn't. He's not that kind of coach. That's not Ben Johnson. Can you play again? Exactly what he said right there. Run that back again. I want to hear exactly what his Tone was. Because that doesn't sound like exactly how I think he thinks.

[C]

Is there a way to kind of get him unstuck there? I know you've talked over the year about once we get that first. First down, some of that can get.

[B]

In the rhythm, too.

[C]

Well, I think that's a little bit of getting to know particular players. It's. For some guys I've been around, it's, hey, well, let's just give him a couple of completions on quick game. Let's go to quick game and get the ball out of his hands. Quick and shorter throws get him back on track. Getting a rhythm for some guys.

[A]

I don't think he thinks that way about Caleb in general. And it goes against what. What my understanding is of Ben Johnson's general philosophy. He doesn't want to waste time in the quick game, having to get a quarterback into a rhythm for the moment that game starts. If the play to be run is to gain 28 yards, run it. That he's too. He's got too many things to do, too many points to score, too many yards to get to worry about getting you into a rhythm. Yeah, that it sounds like. And I don't want to say pandering, but I think he was trying to be polite in answering the question that, yes, there might have been quarterbacks he's worked with in the past, but he didn't say Caleb. He turned that away from Caleb Williams in his answer. Because what I understand about Ben Johnson, that he's a. The equivalent of he's not a slap hitter. This isn't Luis Arias. He understands that you only have X number of possessions and X number of opportunities and he wants big chunks. He wants explosives. He doesn't have to. All right, are you in a rhythm yet? Tell us when we can go, then.

[B]

We can start running our plays.

[A]

As soon as you're ready, you tell me.

[B]

Or it's just waiting for your wife.

[A]

To get her makeup on.

[B]

Not only that, he's not gonna call the Uber. He's not going to deviate from what he wants to do until you get into that rhythm. It's not like we start and it's like, all right, I see now he's not really in a good rhythm.

[A]

That didn't sound like, where can we.

[B]

Go from here now to get him into the rhythm, then we'll exactly back into what we want to do.

[A]

That's the last thing you need is, oh, well, we got to build his confidence. We got to get him in a rhythm.

[C]

No, Well, I Think that's a little bit of getting to know particular players. It's. For some guys I've been around, it's, hey, well, let's just give him a couple of completions on quick game. Let's go to quick game and get the ball out of his hands quick and. And shorter throws get him back on track.

[A]

For some guys I've been around, let's just do this. The number one overall pick in the draft. This. When you say I'm excited to come to Chicago for this guy, it's not because he needs to run short game to get his quarterback into a rhythm that's taking time off his schedule. That's not his worry.

[B]

Yeah. Because he has his offense and his offense is set up in a way that he wants and the quarterback. And the quarterback is going to complete 70% of those passes. That's what he wants.

[A]

His offense will complete 70% of those passes. Whoever the quarterback is.

[B]

Right.

[A]

His offense is designed to do that. But that. Because that sounds like, I mean, yeah, there's some guys. Yes, obviously. But I know what you're basically saying, telling the reporter, I know what you're getting at. I've been around some guys who need that. But it's clear that he doesn't want that aggravation. That that's a drag on his offense to say like, okay, I don't know. Is the oven preheated yet?

[C]

Right.

[B]

Yeah. You walk on the field, you're. You better be a temperature. Yep. Ready to roll.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

All right, here's Ben Johnson.

[A]

The middle was tough to defend, particularly the end breakers.

[B]

Caleb off play action.

[C]

Is that an area where he's most comfortable throwing to the middle of. I think he's getting more comfortable there. And he hit, he hit a few. And then there were a couple that we were talking about a minute ago that we felt like if we bring it down just a little bit that we could have a couple more explosives there in that game. So it's an area that he has improved dramatically since I, since I got here, you know, from the springtime all the way up to this point. And so I think he's got a lot more confidence throwing those things inside the numbers. Some guys get a little bit nervous and get a little bit afraid to do that. And he's not that type. You know, he's always been a high level seam thrower or bender versus too high. But now when you're talking about the daggers or the drift routes that we have in. I think he's. He's done A nice job of trusting the fact that he can turn his back to the defense and yet still flip around, make a decision whether he can pull the trigger or not.

[B]

Yeah. And I just again liking to hear the coach talk about what I'm seeing with my eyes and his elevated passes in the middle of the field that he has gotten better on. He has improved on those, you know, and it's, it's cool to hear him talk about the ability to use those play action plays. That's what he's talking about with his back to the defense, get the play action. And those are their drift routes. That. The drift route is a play action pass that breaks into the middle of the field. The dagger routes are two receivers on one side. The slot guy does vertical, outside guy does the deep in.

[A]

And there's often also a tight end shallow cross moving toward the direction of where the receiver started.

[B]

Of where the receiver started. Yes. Correct. Yeah, if they, yeah, if they have the tight end on that side as.

[A]

Well, that no other tight end starts.

[B]

On the other side. On the other side. So if you're on the right side, they're on the left side. Correct.

[A]

Toward the area that they're vacating.

[B]

They're the, they're the shorter route. The outside receiver is the deep middle and then the slot receiver is the vertical route. Right? Yeah. To clear out and get that safety out. Yeah. And he has improved on it. And it's one thing that we highlighted and we talked about early in the the birth of this show was, you know, getting guys killed because he's throwing the ball too high in the middle. And if he can, if he can get that ball down again, we're talking about over the linebackers in front of the safeties. Work that down to where guys are not having to stop or elevate to catch, but catch in stride. That's what you've talked about. That's where a guy like Luther Burden Roma dunes.

[A]

That's where critical. Right that, that's where I don't want to have that.

[B]

That turns an 18 yard pass where you're you catching and are tackled into a 45 yard touchdown run.

[A]

I don't want to have to ask for spectacular catches. The catches should be relatively routine because the ball is exactly where it needs.

[B]

To be or at least close enough to where it needs to be to catch in stride.

[A]

Where you're jumping in the right direction.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

Or if you have to jump, you're still carrying forward so you can come down and keep moving. You're not reaching Backward. You're not having to take a step back. You're not having to shield off a safety. That's where it's got to improve.

[B]

Yeah. And then one last one here. We got to keep getting better.

[A]

Like I said, you know, it starts with me on my side and then.

[B]

You know, we'll keep going from there. All right. Stop hating on yourself.

[A]

Why do you hate Caleb Williams?

[B]

I am Caleb Williams.

[A]

I am Caleb Williams. You're not answering my question.

[B]

Oh, boy. All right, so that's, that's all the Ben Johnson audio.

[A]

Monday Night Football last night. Did you see the penis punch?

[B]

I did see it.

[A]

Okay. Not the peanut punch.

[B]

No, the penis.

[A]

Last night's game. Not great. Until at the end of the game. Wow. Because all we saw was that there was a dust up after they were shaking hands and everything. And then ESPN kept it there. It appeared like the truck was trying to tell Joe Buck, hey, we know why he's mad. Take a look at this. And then he didn't see it because. So receiver Juwan Jennings of San Francisco came up to Trayvon Merrick at the end and tried to slap him in the head. He hit him in the helmet again. The punching of a guy in the helmet. And then he shoved him. And that's because Merrick, near the end of the game, like, punched him in.

[B]

The dick, in the nutsack.

[A]

And it wasn't like a little, how's your father? It wasn't like in basketball where you're posting up and you give a little love tap. This was the old full on boom. That was like a Rock em Sock Em Robots punch right in the Johnson Johnson. And he was mad, so there's not much you can do. Wait for him to take his helmet off at least. Like punching with a helmet isn't going to do anything. But I don't know what the league is going to do with it. You can't do that, man.

[B]

I was surprised, though, when ESPN actually went back to show a replay of it. You don't, you don't generally, like, broadcast partners don't go back to show replays of like a fight that starts.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

For something like that.

[B]

I mean, after the game is over.

[A]

Though, they show the guys spitting at each other or something. Well, but it was, it was pretty serious.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There really. It was more than just jostling. There are people trying to hold him back. There are security people on him. But it was. That guy decided, I'm going to go punch him in the dick.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And really did. He wound up and he Delivered it and. Well, what about his cup? They don't wear cups. They don't. The guys don't. Guys in sports, I mean, like baseball, infielders don't wear. I think catchers do still. Yeah, I know, I know. Goalies wear the specialized ones.

[B]

I would hope so. Yeah, it was like the old, the old joke. You'd go to your buddy and be like, hey, what's the capital? Thailand?

[A]

Bangkok.

[B]

That's. That's what it. That's what it looked like. He pulled back, went after it.

[A]

But that was more than that. Like that. You don't. If it's a friend, you're just doing it.

[B]

No, you hit, you know you want to. You punch your buddy, drop into his knees. That's what, that's what that looked like. Maybe that's what he did. Maybe one up to him, he said, hey, what's the capital of Thailand? Bangkok.

[A]

Sure. Boink.

[B]

We got to keep getting better.

[A]

Like I said, you know, it starts with me on my side and then.

[B]

You know, we'll keep growing from there.

[A]

No, how dare you say you have to get better. Can't do that. Yeah. I'm interested to see how the NFL treats this specific thing because that's an all time dick punch. It really is.

[B]

Well, I saw too. Speaking of NFL fights, the. Who was it to. Was it Jamar Chase? Did Jamar Chase apologize for spitting after.

[A]

He said he didn't do it?

[B]

I shouldn't. I shouldn't have done that. That's a bad thing to do.

[A]

No, no, you shouldn't have.

[B]

The lowest form of human disrespect, spitting on another man.

[A]

I don't know. I take that over a dick punch, I think.

[B]

Or murder.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I mean, hey, listen, you have a. You have an option. I could murder you or I could spit on you.

[A]

Well, yeah, but I don't know. That third one that.

[B]

Murder you, then spit on you, then punch.

[A]

But that's pretty special. The only better one I think I've ever seen was in a basketball game. I think the only. The only.

[B]

Not the best punch, though, ever in a basketball game.

[A]

The best. Well, no, Kermit Washington's probably got that forever, Rudy. Yeah. Oh, boy. But the. It was the Lacrosse Catbirds against the Rockford Lightning. And you remember Les Jepsen who played at Iowa, Big Iowa Center.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Big, blonde haired, nice guy. And he was.

[B]

He's on the Lightning.

[A]

He was. He was on the Lightning. And it was a really hard fought game. It's when Flip Saunders was coaching in in lacrosse, this guy Tony Harris was just getting pissed at Les for getting all these rebounds, and he just. He ran up to him and did like a bolo punch.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Like a full wind up bang.

[B]

Yeah, it's like a wrestling move.

[A]

He was. Unless turned purple and he got up and he was yelling and he didn't even know really who did it or whose. I could barely keep from laughing.

[B]

Why did he punch him?

[A]

I'm not exactly sure. Like, maybe he thought he fouled him or something. Well, Tony was a bit of a. Bit of a. A free spirit, as it were. And he was completely purple and just screaming at nobody. Like, what happened last? Because people came to him lately. Oh, my God, is he okay? What happened? And instead of lying there writhing, he just got up screaming. It was like a cartoon. But I couldn't see behind the helmet if Juwan Jennings was doing that.

[B]

But that's. That's a special kind of dude. Like, if you're gonna get into a confrontation while playing sports and you go after.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Another guy's.

[A]

Yeah. You're kind of not supposed to do that in a real fight.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Like an actual fight.

[B]

I mean, like in sports. Like a guy. Guy trucks you, or you think it's a late hit or a bad hit and you're gonna go after his wiener. Like, come on.

[A]

Right. You have besmirched my manhood.

[B]

Right. I'm going to smack you in the wiener.

[A]

So what are you going to do?

[B]

All right, the. The Niners, they took that game last night 20 to 9. Five interceptions in the game.

[A]

That's bad. Yeah. But then you had to watch the Bulls game instead. Oh, boy. At the end, honestly, I was rooting for the Pelicans.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Because I was booing the Bulls.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was just like, you know what?

[B]

Rub it in off of. What? Rub it in off of Vuchi.

[A]

Go get it.

[B]

Yeah. Post game.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Go get the Wizards. Yeah.

[A]

I was rooting for the Pelicans to go get the. I cannot wait until OWC this afternoon. I cannot wait. Cannot wait. There's also the stuff that Kendall Gill said about Derek Queen before the game.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't want to give it away. You're not going to believe it.

[B]

I just want to let people know, too, that if you're a regular listener and subscriber to DBU and Forward Progress.

[A]

Thank you, first of all.

[B]

Yes, thank you. And with the holiday coming up here on Thursday, we'll still have a full. A full broat of shows for this week. So we'll have DBU and Ford progress tomorrow. DBU and Ford progress on Thursday. There will be DBU and Ford progress on Friday with our Bears post game shows.

[A]

The forward progress. We're not going to do a separate forward progress Friday.

[B]

Bears, Eagles going to be the post game.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So check that out. If you haven't listened to one of the post game shows yet, you can subscribe. And we go live once the game ends. If it's a little bit early because it's a lopsided score, we may start the show early. But we like to try to keep it till the very end so you can finish watching the game then jump on with us.

[A]

And we haven't had many lopsided scores.

[B]

No.

[A]

So we haven't. And I was, I mean the last.

[B]

Time we went early was the. It wasn't the Lions, was it the Saints?

[A]

Might have been the Saints game.

[B]

Saints Saints game.

[A]

But I will say that I think our Thanksgiving DBU is one that you are going to want to enjoy.

[B]

Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that. And yeah, I've debated on putting that out on socials for people to know. I think we should let people know in advance just because maybe you're not super busy on Thursday and you're just kind of chilling and you got time and maybe you want to do your regular things and listen like you normally do. You might want to listen.

[A]

It is well worth your time. We take a little bit of a departure from what we've done so far and I think, especially if you're a longtime Chicago sports radio consumer, you're going to find some really interesting things in there, some stories you may not have heard, some things you might not have known, but it's absolutely worth your attention on Thursday.

[B]

Good stuff. All right, that'll do it for Forward Progress here on Tuesday as we look forward to the Bears and Eagles on Friday, but more shows for you tomorrow as well. So he's Dan Bernstein, I'm Matt Abaticola and this is Forward Progress and it is a show right here on 312 sports podcast.

[A]

Chicago Bears podcast. Yeah, it is. I know.

[B]

I was trying to find the close. I know you were. Yeah, I was trying to do it and say goodbye. Say bye.

[A]

10 219, 219.

[B]

Forward progress, a Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312 Sports.

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