Dan Bernstein (2:35)

Well, my buddy in my group chat called it. He just right before the kick he said this is when Devin DuVernay has a return. That matters. Well, I just texted. I know he was. I just texted back I hate you. Oh wow, wow wow. Okay.

Matt Abaticola (2:52)

Well, in a game that it looked like neither team wanted to win, JJ McCarthy was just he was terrible.

Dan Bernstein (2:59)

How did you terrible tonight. How'd you lose to this guy in week one?

Matt Abaticola (3:03)

I have no idea.

Dan Bernstein (3:04)

How did they lose to this? How did they let this guy single handedly beat them in week one?

Matt Abaticola (3:11)

All the, all the drop passes, it was just, man, this should not have been a two point game. It should not have been a two point game. And the Bears, I think had opportunities in the lower half of the red zone that they settled for field goals instead of touchdowns. This should not have happened this way. I'm glad that the Bears were able to get the win. You got the important kick return for the first time all year from Duvernay and then Santos squeaks one in from 48 to get you the two point win. That should not have gone down this way, but glad they did. And they're seven and three.

Dan Bernstein (3:40)

And at the end of the year there's going to be a new special teams coach for the Bears. They're not going to do it in season. But to allow that punt return, that changed everything. Yes, that, that Miles Price 42 yard punt return, that absolutely cannot happen after those two sacks. Dallas Turner, your guy, the Viking Van Ginkle gets the huge sack on third and 10 and the moment he returned at 42 yards, we all got that horrible sinking feeling. But man, oh man, they are. Get out of there before they change the scoreboard on you. I, I've said that in the past, but that one, that one felt like it. It was just slipping and slipping and slipping, but my goodness, however they do it, they did it.

Matt Abaticola (4:26)

The first quarter of the game, it felt like that the Vikings fans were experiencing what we experience as Bears fans where you control the ball, you dominate the clock, you have more yards and that you're just up by, you know, you're just up by enough where they can come back and score a touchdown and take the lead, which the Bears did. And to have it happen the other way around for once, it finally felt nice. Although it was weird, Dan, because I never truly felt super confident. Despite how bad J.J. mcCarthy was playing, all the drops the Vikings had, the fact that they were able to run the ball and Manangai and Swift still continue to. They run the ball really hard and it's so different from how the season started. With all of that happening and the two interceptions, I just, I still never felt very confident. I was like, all right, it's going to be a really ugly win, but at least they're going to win. And then they have that last drive. And I was like, there's no way that they take a one point lead, right? They're not going to take a one point lead.

Dan Bernstein (5:24)

It's not going to happen in this NFL.

Matt Abaticola (5:26)

Give up an 85 yard drive to give up a one point lead. It's not going to happen. Right?

Dan Bernstein (5:31)

Boy.

Matt Abaticola (5:31)

And then it happened and I was like, but, but still now the last two weeks, I'm like, okay, you got a minute to go Caleb, go do your thing. But then duvernay with the huge, huge.

Dan Bernstein (5:41)

Return, I just thought they left too much time. I thought that if they would have been smarter to grind that thing down and just kind of suffocate the Bears at end, I thought that this was going to be another Caleb Williams finish to this game and instead it's the Devin DuVernay game. Let me also give a game ball to both tight ends. I thought that both Cole Comet and Colston Loveland in the pass game, in the run game, Kemet was a beast on some of those underneath check down sideline catches, mauling people for extra yards and did the tight ends did a really good job blocking the blocking for Swift late. Loveland somehow has a cloaking device where guys just end up missing him when they try to tackle him. Anytime two guys try to tackle him, they both miss. And I this, this was a game for, for comet where with five targets, five catches, 45 yards, Loveland caught three of his four targets. They combined for 85 yards. And I just thought this was a, a workman like game that might be remembered as, as the day that, that Ben Johnson finally needed both tight ends in his game plan.

Matt Abaticola (6:56)

Yeah, no, they both played excellent. I was really surprised how I'm learning about Colson Loveland and his, how tough he is. Man, he is just, he's a beast, you know. And it's nice to start to see that the last couple of weeks that, that's how it's coming down and that, that one play that he had two defenders miss him. Harrison Barnes comes in for the youth football. I'm going to throw my shoulder at you and try to try to knock you over. It's like, this is NFL man.

Dan Bernstein (7:23)

Harrison Smith.

Matt Abaticola (7:25)

Harrison Smith. Yeah.

Dan Bernstein (7:26)

Harrison Barnes would be the, the, the veteran wing NBA.

Matt Abaticola (7:30)

Yes, correct. Harrison Smith. But he, it was really surprising the, the lack of technique on his tackle and just kind of threw his shoulder at him. It's like, have you, have you not watched any film on this guy? You're not bringing him down like that. You, you need to wrap him up and bring him down to the ground. But I'm glad they did it. And he's just a beast. He's a beast and he's been really fun to watch. But good call out by you on both tight ends. Really, really good game for both today.

Dan Bernstein (7:51)

Kudos to Montez Sweat as well on that third and four. Batting the ball up in the air that could easily have been picked right before the two minute warning despite the fact that they converted on that fourth and four. That was Sweat. Me not getting home but mattering with that pass breakup at a, at a critical time. The injury to Tyreek Stevenson also had me very concerned as soon as they said questionable to return and then in comes Nick McLeod. That was my worry late that that would be an opportunity then for J.J. mcCarthy's get right. And what's the deal with his war paint? Why does he have the Bryce Harper stuff on his face? You're indoors. You don't need eye black. I don't know what that is.

Matt Abaticola (8:39)

It's a look now. It's not, it's not. It doesn't serve a purpose.

Dan Bernstein (8:42)

Okay.

Matt Abaticola (8:42)

It's just, it's just, it's a, it's just a look.

Dan Bernstein (8:44)

All right. I was just concerned. Well, I, if you are a follower of DBU picks from the my bookie that we do on Fridays, I had the Bears plus three. Didn't need that. I had Swift over the 58.5 rushing yards. Both of those came in. I didn't think that that Swift was going to find that, that second half gear that he did, man. But that too when they started on their own 35 and he just started pounding away a 9 yard run, 11 yard run, 8 yard run. And it, it built them up to a no gain after they, they brought in Bajint for a second time on that wide receiver play. And I get doing that once I get Ben Johnson saying to his counterpart, hey, hey, you, you remember this play? Remember this formation? Remember what we did last time and then using it as a decoy for Manungai, but to do it again, that's pushing the definition of strategy a little bit too close to too cute for me.

Matt Abaticola (9:47)

Well, yeah, obviously it was a decoy and they hand off to Manungai and he didn't really get any yards at all, if anything, unless he was tackled in the backfield, if I remember. But is he trying to outsmart himself too by saying, hey, we're going to put Bajan out there, we're going to run this again. But then thinking, all right, you're going to think that I'm not going to do the same play, so I'm not going to do the same play. I'm going to do the run play and I just, I just don't know what purpose it serves to run it so close together. But you know, whatever, it didn't hurt the game. Again, there's some issues with some behind the line of scrimmage screen passes I just don't like. One thing I noticed too, that was happening a lot in this game, the on the weak side of the offensive line, they would bring a defensive back up to the line and would just blow up the backfield. And it happened a couple different times on run plays. One guy got into Caleb's face. He was able to freeze him I think midair and even throw the ball off to the left flats. But a couple times they would walk a guy up to the line on the, on the weak side of the offensive line and just blow up and guy. The job was just sprint in the backfield, sprint in the backfield, see what happens. React and read. And a couple times they, they were able to stop them in the backfield on carries, which I just didn't like. No adjustment to that at all.

Dan Bernstein (10:57)

Well, I was hoping to see more in the screen game. I really was because I thought they were setting it up. Setting it up. They hit on the big one to luther burden, the 16 yard screen that they got in the. Where did I have this? I had that in the, in the fourth quarter when Burden had the big drop and then I was a little worried that that drop was gonna, was gonna scare him off. But indeed the they, he did take a lot of Olamide Zacchaeus's snaps. And I just thought that there over and over and over again because it seemed to me like Flores was also blitzing some of those gaps in a way that was protecting them against some of the runs too, that they just had guys stopping the run on their way to the quarterback very effectively.

Matt Abaticola (11:48)

Yeah, sir. Sorry, Dan, I'm just trying to look at, I'm not getting comments coming through. Okay, I see them coming through. I just don't have them coming through. So. Sorry to mean to, to pause on you there.

Dan Bernstein (11:57)

No, that's all right. Let me look at some of the, the final numbers here because I really haven't had to, to look at all of this, but Caleb Williams finished a Pedestrian at best 16 of 32 for 193 yards. No touchdowns, no interceptions. DeAndre Swift led the way with 90 rushes or 90 yards on 21 rushes with a long of just 11. Williams scrambled for 26 yards. The long of 16. Kyle Manungai contributed on 12 carries for just 23 yards, but he had that one touchdown mentioned that Comet was the leading receiver with five catches for 45 yards. Roma Dunze only caught two of his six targets for 41. Colston Loveland, three catches for 40. Burden, three catches for 27. Not a great game for DJ Moore, who had a terrible drop and then nearly dropped another that he caught with his feet and his knees. Yeah, yeah, that's. And that was the only catch he had. That was his only catch. That was his only catch, huh?

Matt Abaticola (13:01)

Okay.

Dan Bernstein (13:02)

I don't know what's up, but that. That drop was brutal.

Matt Abaticola (13:07)

Yeah. And then penalties for the Bears, 6 for 40. The Vikings played a pretty clean game, 2 for 15. And then, you know, really, one of those penalties was the. The delay of game that they did on purpose. So we'll. We'll make that five for 35 for the Bears.

Dan Bernstein (13:22)

That's fine. Yeah, that's fine. I'm not mad about that.

Matt Abaticola (13:25)

Would you say five or six is the number? Keep it under.

Dan Bernstein (13:27)

I don't have a problem with that. But two of the illegal formation penalties, that's just concentration and awareness. He's not designing plays that are illegally formed. You just got to know where your feet are. Joe Tuney is a beast, man. He is a. He is just a monster.

Matt Abaticola (13:45)

Yeah, there was a play there on the. It was a second down, second down, Bears play that. On that final drive that Swift got blown up in the backfield. And Tom Brady incorrectly pointed out how the fact. When you start pulling guards and you start leaving all these open gaps, it wasn't that at all. It was just. Theo Benedict got manhandled. He got tossed to the ground like a child.

Dan Bernstein (14:06)

Yep.

Matt Abaticola (14:07)

So it had nothing to do with the formation that was called. Nothing to do with the scheme that was called in that play. Just Theo Benedict got beat. He got beat badly and allowed that guy to get in the backfield pretty, pretty easily.

Dan Bernstein (14:17)

And he doesn't have to pancake him on that play. When you are pulling people around on that trap action, you just have to delay him enough that the. The running back can outrun him, you know, and. And sometimes the quarterback will move that handoff point a little bit away from that open backside. But I didn't see that being an issue at all. You just have to slow down that defender somehow. You know, make him. Make him turn his hips, hit him something, throw something at him and not allow him to chase it. Down. But this was a it's it. It could have been kind of an inspiring win. It really could have been had they they turned the screws defensively a bit more. But regardless of how they did it and regardless of the quality of quarterbacking they were facing in this one, because McCarthy did have his hand wrapped before the game, I'm not sure if he kept that wrap on there the entire time, but when he was missing, he was missing short, he was missing high, he was missing long, he was missing by throwing it too hard. There was every kind of bad throw that he was making even when he did identify the right receiver. And I thought the Bears eventually might have gotten burned by allowing the number of third and shorts that they did, but the number of drop passes and complete misfires by McCarthy kept them in it. I just to allow that punt return and then to miss the field goal. It was the best thing that happened to them to get the Devin duvernay kickoff return to keep the Heat off of yet another underwhelming overall special teams performance. Fix that.

Matt Abaticola (15:56)

Yeah, I know this is a might be a tough question to answer, but what I can recall of the now 10 games that was the first return that was set up to go across the entire width of the field. I don't ever recall one where it was. It's caught on the left and the return is designed to go right or right and designed to go left. It's always, it seems like he's always catching it and just going straight. And this one was deliberately schemed to go from the left side to the right side, which opened up. He didn't, he didn't stutter step at all. He didn't have to break stride. He was able to just bolt right and it was, it was blocked perfectly. Probably with the weight. It was kicked. I don't recall seeing them try to return a kickoff like that.

Gardens of Evil Narrator (16:38)

Yet this season, several homes in the suburb of Northwood had the most beautiful landscaping.

Dan Bernstein (16:44)

Such perfection.

Gardens of Evil Narrator (16:45)

The neighbor responsible retiree Arvin Shreve.

Gardens of Evil Guest (16:48)

It reminded me of Mr. Rogers.

Gardens of Evil Narrator (16:50)

But Arvin hid a dark secret. My mom took me to this house.

Dan Bernstein (16:53)

And then I never lived with her again.

Gardens of Evil Guest (16:55)

Arvin's message was, I have a key to get you into heaven.

Gardens of Evil Narrator (16:58)

Gardens of Evil is the unbelievable story of the Zion Society cult told by those who lived it. Find Gardens of Evil inside the Zion Society cult wherever you listen to podcasts.

Dan Bernstein (17:09)

Well, I would have to ask because a lot of these returns may be first priority, blocked a certain way, and you just don't get it that's closed off, especially as the rules are changing every year. And a lot of what you have designed, you don't know until you have a reasonable sample of the way these plays are defended and run. I know that duvernay has not been a threat at all. He's just looked heavy legged. And I was going back to Dick Jaron's guy, Leon Johnson, to go back to a time when a Bears kickoff returner had had that apparent lack of explosiveness. But look, it's all good now. And I don't know how many times we can talk about these victories where we say there's just so many coaching points, there's still so many things that they can talk about and know that on a day like this, they didn't play well enough to beat a good team. This is a 7 and 3 team that still is still ahead of where we expected them to be. Perhaps at this point in the season, they are looking at what is now a, we can say it, a likely playoff spot. But they've got a ton of work to do. They have a ton of work to do to put, to understand how to put teams away, to know when they're in advantageous situations. And it just seems like they, that, that maybe it's the nature of the NFL that does this, but it's, it is, it's maddening to watch in a game where I thought that we'd be coming here and kind of shrugging our shoulders and saying, all right, that's, that's how it looked. They beat a team that was trying to beat itself and they let him do it. But it came down to the right foot of that kid from 48 yards out.

Matt Abaticola (18:50)

Yeah, and I get it and I think all your points are valid and accurate, but we can't have it both ways. And then talk about, well, they've played 10 games, they've won seven and they've pretty much beat bad teams. Well, that's fine. That's the way it is. That's the way the schedule goes.

Dan Bernstein (19:07)

I'm not complaining.

Matt Abaticola (19:07)

Lose those games. Oh, I know you're not. I know you're not. But I see some, some comments. People are making the same comment that you are, but more leaning the direction that the Bears have not beaten a good team yet this year. It doesn't matter. I mean, they're seven and three. They've played 10 games. They've had every opportunity to lose those seven games as well, too. And they've won those. And those last three weeks all come from behind victories that's something to me, says more about a team than executing from start to finish the entire four quarters. Now I would love to see that. I can't wait to see that. I can't wait to see this team click on all cylinders in all three phases of the game. Hopefully that will happen this season. But they're winning games that maybe they shouldn't win, which is something that we've never seen before with this organization.

Dan Bernstein (19:52)

They have the top three Interceptors in the NFL right now in Kevin Byard, Tremaine Edmonds, and Nishan Wright. I believe that Edmonds and Wright each have four, Byard's got five.

Matt Abaticola (20:08)

Yeah, that's correct.

Dan Bernstein (20:09)

Yeah.

Matt Abaticola (20:09)

Where they, where they rank. But your, your numbers are right. Yeah.

Dan Bernstein (20:12)

You better make the playoffs in a year where you're picking off that many passes and that one by right in the corner of the end zone, that's a special play. That is just a fantastic individual effort. That is not. That is not a tipped ball. That's not one of those center field overthrow catches. That isn't where you're just. You're gambling on something and stepping into it. That was using his length and using his. The timing of that jump, the fingertip catch. A spectacular interception by Nishan Wright. Really, really good stuff.

Matt Abaticola (20:46)

It was so good. And he goes up at the highest point to get it. And I don't even remember seeing the play. And if you can remember it in your brain, he's stretched out backwards.

Dan Bernstein (20:53)

Yep.

Matt Abaticola (20:53)

Like he's, he's. Yeah, it was, it was a really spectacular play. It got me off the couch in front of the TV to, you know, hoot and holler about it. But. And he's been a really interesting character this year because he's been so frustrating at times, yet so exceptional at other times, you know, And I know we've talked about him a lot during these post game shows, and this was a really, really great opportunity here for him to make a great play. And he did it. And you're not going to see that play made a whole, a whole lot by defensive backs. One question I wanted to ask, if you have it in front of you, is the number of snaps. Because we talked at halftime about Zacchaeus and the number of snaps that he was in. And I'm just curious to see how the snap count does play out because this goes in line with what we've said about Ben Johnson, that we finally have a head coach that is seeing the same things that we're seeing as Bears fans. And I go back to what he said this week, when asked about all the drops, like, what do you do? How do you correct it? And you remember his answer on Wednesday or Thursday, he was just like, hey, guys want to catch the ball? You know, that's all they want to do. They want to catch it. There's nothing we can really do. We're just going to talk about it, we're going to address it, we're going to turn the page, we're going to move forward. He wasn't being very truthful. You know, he wasn't being. And what it shows, it shows that again, he sees the same things we're seeing where all the fans that we talked to this week all were clamoring, Zacchaeus shouldn't be out there. Get Zacchaeus out. Burden should get more snaps. Burden get more snaps. And the head coach talks about it and he just says, hey, the guys want to catch the ball, we'll address it, we'll move on. That's all we're going to do. He sees the same things we're seeing. And it's really nice to have that confirmation.

Dan Bernstein (22:28)

Once again, Zacchaeus, all I had is three snaps in the first half. I don't have full yet, but he was not thrown to. I mean, that's really what you need to know when Durham Smythe is targeted three times, Luther Burden is targeted five. Yeah, I think. I think Oz is El Bencho. I think is the old. Ask the old El Bencho what's going on there.

Matt Abaticola (22:52)

That is.

Dan Bernstein (22:53)

I think that the response from Ben Johnson was not going to work here anymore.

Matt Abaticola (22:59)

Yeah, I remember seeing him on one snap in the second half, but outside of that, I don't really recall him being out there at all. So it'd be interesting to see if it was only four or five or six.

Dan Bernstein (23:09)

Something else I had circled that maybe was notable. When Theo Benedict left briefly in the first quarter, you see who came in, who did? Ozzie Troupillo. Okay. Ozzy Trapillo came in for Benedict for that one snap before Benedict was back on. And that, that tells us something because before Tropillo had been used as the extra offensive lineman or the tight end. Heavy packages, we had seen him used it. They always said right tackle, but for him to be first man up at left. I just made sure I circled that one because maybe it means that. That Braxton Jones is down a notch in the depth chart.

Matt Abaticola (23:55)

Yeah. You know, it was funny. I was in a rewind to go back to see who was in there, and honestly, I said, well, Dan will have it in his beautiful mind notes so we'll be able to we'll be able to go back and cover it without rewinding and looking.

Dan Bernstein (24:09)

They are yes, they work. I I, I don't know that I can necessarily make hide nor hair of it given enough time removed from it.

Matt Abaticola (24:19)

But it was a quick look here at some of the scores. Panthers Falcons in overtime right now 27 each late games Rams are up early on the Seahawks 70 49ers 13 nothing on the Cardinals, Ravens and Browns no score Chiefs Broncos no score Lions the Eagles are later tonight earlier the Dolphins get their fourth win of the season and they beat the Commanders in Madrid. Madrid.

Dan Bernstein (24:46)

What was that horrible wake up.

Matt Abaticola (24:50)

Defensive game 44 to 32 win for the Bills Texas 1613 over the Titans. The packers outlast the Giants and win 2720 Steelers over the Bengals combined ages of the quarterbacks in that game 81 years old 34 to 12 was the final there and the Jaguars really just dominate the the cheat the Chargers 35.

Dan Bernstein (25:12)

To 6 One thing interesting to note in that packers game at various points in the game I know that Jordan Love had left the game with an injury and then later on Josh Jacobs left. So that is obviously something to keep in mind and remember Speaking of injuries that while Jaquan Brisker did come back and play I still think they really are missing TJ Edwards is it is it's notable in the run game where and perhaps in some of the short zone passing as well to the sooner they get him back the better and not having to deal with Jonathan Grinard was a lucky break.

Matt Abaticola (25:50)

Yeah, no for sure. Again, let's highlight to Caleb Williams and his ability to evade the sack in the pot. I mean I think they had they had a couple and two plays in a row. They got sacks but there was one where he was folded in half and I don't know how he came out of that pocket without going down. He is just, he's something special. What we've seen the last few weeks.

Dan Bernstein (26:13)

From that kid and I know that we've talked about scramble rules before, I'm wondering sometimes are there any offensive players that are giving up? Are there any offensive players that see the same thing? They see him bent at 90 degrees and aren't moving to open space because they don't even have it in the back of their head that there's going to be an opportunity there. If there ever is a reason as a coaching point to keep telling all these guys down the field never ever, ever, ever Give up on a play with this guy. Always be moving.

Matt Abaticola (26:48)

Yeah. I think if they haven't learned that yet, I think this is the final, the final example, a final game video that they need to watch to say that this play is not over until he's on the ground or the ball's caught or on the ground, whatever it might be.

Dan Bernstein (27:03)

I'm not sure what the, what the overall takeaways are in this game, but I know I said it before that when they running the ball effectively when they need it to, when they need to pound it down the field knowing that it's coming, they've culminated in the 45 yard miss wide left by Santos. But those runs by Swift in large part over Joe Tuney, that tells me that Ben Johnson is he, he tipped his little sort of security blanket hand there, that he's not going to get too fancy and that there's. They used a bunch of eye formation in this game too, that they were playing some downhill power stuff and they were lining it up and using the, the tight end as an H back, sometimes offset, sometimes straight up. I. But they are, they are right over that left side when they needed those big yards. Just pay it off, you know, make that stuff matter.

Matt Abaticola (28:02)

Yeah, I'm, I'm looking forward to going back and taking a second look at this game because I really want to analyze what the Bears did when they're in the bottom half of the red zone and they settle for field goals. I want to know if it's, if it's a matter of a lack of execution or if Ben Johnson is going to talk about wanting some of those plays back. Because I think my initial viewing, looking at my notes, initial viewing is going to be some play calling, some opportunities there that he kind of missed on some, on some opportunities to get the ball in the end zone again. This game shouldn't have been a two point game, but I'm thrilled that the Bears won. I can't believe they got the ball back with 54 seconds. And then you get Duvernay with the return that if you were to ask me what's the most likely to happen, you know, duvernay to have 60 yard return when you need it or Santos to kick a 70 yard field goal, I would have said, yeah, I'll probably go with Santos in this one. Maybe, maybe there's something going to happen special. But for that to happen was just. It was great to see and it was such a relief to not have to come and do this show and have this conversation with you with a 17 to 16 loss. I just. I would have not been able to handle that.

Dan Bernstein (29:09)

My favorite part of the aftermath of the duvernay return was the cutaway to Kevin o'. Connell. And it was so. It was so obvious that he said. I don't know what he said exactly before, whether it was, are you fucking kidding me? Or you gotta be fucking kidding me. It was one or the two, because the last three words were clear as a bell. And I know 100% that was. That's what happens. And, man, no, we're not kidding you is the answer. And I don't think Devin DuVernay was kidding you either, to set that thing up.

Matt Abaticola (29:47)

And, you know, I will say this, too, about JJ McCarthy. As bad as he was, he was. He was really bad. I mean, at one point, I think when I texted you, he had like 74 yards. Because remember my. My bookie plays I had.

Dan Bernstein (30:00)

Yep.

Matt Abaticola (30:01)

I had JJ under 215, and then I had Caleb over one and a half. So I missed on the touchdowns, but nailed on the. On the. On the. J.J. mcCarthy. So he looked terrible. And like you pointed out earlier, every way that you could possibly make a bad pass, he did. Whether it was too hard or he was too high or just completely off the mark. When he needed to make passes, though, he came through in that final drive and he was. He was putting the ball where it needed to be. And he looked like a different quarterback, like they traded someone's body out for. For him. And he was able to make the plays when it was needed. Luckily, the Bears were able to overcome it with that big kick return from duvernay.

Dan Bernstein (30:40)

Some of the drops were just shocking. I don't think I've ever seen TJ Hawkinson drop one of those little dump offs that's just right in his hand. And the one by Jordan Addison that also hit him in the breadbasket and just fell. I. At least on the DJ Moore drop, he. Well, the drop that he didn't catch, it looked like that drop was. He had it and he was transferring it, and he just wasn't quite secure in transferring it and tucking it away before he ran that he had the catch. He just couldn't finish it because it was on the transfer.

Matt Abaticola (31:15)

You know, I have to look at it again because I thought it went through his hands and went off his chest, which is what made it a little harder. He didn't.

Dan Bernstein (31:20)

I thought he. I thought he kind of caught it. It was. But he didn't. He didn't make enough of a move to be established as a ball carrier at that point, but it kind of, to me, looked like the. The play at second base turning a double play. That was. It was just kind of the in between. But it's in the NFL. Obviously, a drop is a drop, but, man, it's. To have a game like this where he can matter that little. If you come away knowing that DJ Moore had one catch, Roma Dunze had two, and they were still that. That's where the tight ends picked everybody up.

Gardens of Evil Narrator (31:56)

Northwood was a quiet, idyllic American suburb, but the beautiful landscaping hid a dark secret.

Dan Bernstein (32:02)

The horror that happened inside those homes.

Matt Abaticola (32:04)

With such a pretty facade, it just didn't make sense.

Gardens of Evil Narrator (32:08)

The immaculate yards were designed by retired landscaper Arvin Shreve.

Gardens of Evil Guest (32:12)

He reminded me of Mr. Rogers, but.

Gardens of Evil Narrator (32:14)

Arvin was not who he appeared to be.

Matt Abaticola (32:16)

He's proclaiming to be a prophet.

Gardens of Evil Guest (32:18)

Arvin's message was, if you do all these things for me sexually, then I have a key to get you into heaven.

Gardens of Evil Narrator (32:23)

My mom took me to this house.

Dan Bernstein (32:25)

And then I never lived with her again.

Gardens of Evil Narrator (32:26)

My podcast, Gardens of Evil, tells the unbelievable story of the Zion Society culture and an investigator who rescued dozens of children from the clutches of a predator. It reveals tactics used by abusers like Arvin or anyone who manipulates for their own selfish ends. And it's the story of resilient survivors who are finding ways to heal three decades later.

Gardens of Evil Guest (32:46)

Forgive yourself, keep moving forward. You didn't know any better.

Gardens of Evil Narrator (32:50)

Find Gardens of Evil inside the Zion Society cult wherever you listen to podcasts.

Matt Abaticola (32:57)

Yeah, and don't look now, but the. With the Lions playing later, the Bears are actually technically on top of the NFC north with seven wins, so.

Dan Bernstein (33:06)

Well, if the Lions win, they would continue to own the tiebreaker, technically be in first place at that point, but.

Matt Abaticola (33:13)

As it is right now, there's no other team in the NFC north with seven wins, so we'll take it.

Dan Bernstein (33:18)

And the next game coming up is. Is that Steelers?

Matt Abaticola (33:24)

That is Steelers Sunday at noon. And then they have the. The Friday Black Friday game against the Eagles. Against the Eagles.

Dan Bernstein (33:32)

Correct. Okay.

Matt Abaticola (33:33)

I wanted to look real quick at Justin Jefferson, so nine targets, five receptions, 61 yards. And, you know, they showed him a few different times on the sideline. Not. Not very happy. I'm. I'm really curious to know what. What is going on fully because, you know, we. We talked about him on Friday with Paul Churchian, and we talked about it after the interview ended as well, that he talked about being distracted. There's things going on in life I'm curious if. If those outside things are really impacting it or if it's really the lack of connection that he's had with J.J. mcCarthy this year. If that's really getting to him as a. As a superstar wide receiver in this league.

Dan Bernstein (34:10)

I don't know. I know the third and two on their drive near the end of the third quarter where McCarthy threw it high, but it was right through his hands. That's where you.

App Store Announcer (34:22)

That.

Dan Bernstein (34:22)

That's a play you got to make or you got to shut up. You can say everything you want about what your quarterback is doing and the struggles that he's going through, or you can not say it and be diplomatic enough, but then leak it or have everybody know exactly how you feel. But that's a catch you have to make. Maybe the. A replacement level wide receiver isn't expected to do that, but. But Justin Jefferson has to. And then his blocking later on some of the. On the downfield blocking, and he was proud of himself and he was making sure to call attention to his blocking on that play. You know, just do your job, man. Do your job. People see you. People will. People are going to give you credit. Don't worry. You don't have to literally pound your chest when you're blocking downfield. So it does seem like he's. He's a little in between.

Matt Abaticola (35:14)

Yeah, I just. I'm really curious to know what's going on because even though he's on a division opponent, I really. I love watching him play. He's a spectacular wide receiver, but he is just not right. And I don't know if it. If really the things going on in life outside of football or if it really is this. This lack of connection that he has with. With JJ McCarthy right now, but I'll take it. I'll take the win. And, you know, the. The Vikings wanted to look bad at home, and Carthy looked about as bad as you could look until that final drive for the Vikings. We'll take the win and go seven and three. I'm all for it.

Dan Bernstein (35:44)

The stadium is gorgeous, too.

Matt Abaticola (35:46)

Yeah, it's really cool. It's really cool how they designed it.

Dan Bernstein (35:49)

It's beautiful. And if. If that's what Kevin Warren has in mind in Arlington Heights, fine. I know you're not going to have the view of the downtown, but if it's going to be something that feels that sort of open, that has this whole. It's almost like you're in an atrium of some kind or like a massive greenhouse, it really is that, that. That's about all you need for an indoor stadium that makes you feel like you are. You're still somewhere, you know, you don't.

Matt Abaticola (36:16)

Feel like you're anywhere. It's a beautiful design, and if the Bears can do something similar, that would be amazing. And, you know, we should have shovels in the ground soon, and that should be done for, you know, 20, 28. Right.

Dan Bernstein (36:27)

Well, anybody can walk out there and do the ceremonial shovel in the ground.

Matt Abaticola (36:30)

I mean, you and I should do that. Yeah, we should do it live one day. Go do that.

Dan Bernstein (36:33)

Just have.

Matt Abaticola (36:34)

You will walk out there with shovels and just start putting shovels in the ground.

Dan Bernstein (36:36)

Just stand there and have shovels in the ground. How we can. We can even leave the shovels on the ground if you want. And we can kind of.

Matt Abaticola (36:41)

I think we would have to after. We'd get arrested.

Dan Bernstein (36:43)

We could set up shovel cam now. Shovel cam. It'll always have an update on how the shovels are doing, and they'll be there just kind of representing. So the Bears at this point, 7 and 3 at the moment atop the NFC north, they haven't taken it so as to never give it back yet. But I just. It. It makes me crazy that they let this jamoke come back and beat them in the opener. This same guy with all this time now under his belt, he'd never played an NFL game before and you were up and you let. You let him storm back and pull that victory out of your hands and make us all miserable for a week. This guy.

Matt Abaticola (37:28)

Well, not only that, Dan. I mean, they let him do it again today. Not for a special teams play where we haven't had many positive ones to talk about this year, this might be a different scenario. And looking at two come from behind victories for J.J. mcCarthy against the Bears. And thankfully, we're not. No, your guy, Devin DuVernay.

Dan Bernstein (37:49)

Hey, he was bound to do something at some point. And I guess.

Matt Abaticola (37:54)

Has Blackwell returned kicks before this season? Because he had one earlier today. I don't remember him doing it before. Has he done. Okay, I believe that was a strategic move.

Dan Bernstein (38:03)

Or he's been the other side guy.

Matt Abaticola (38:06)

He has. Okay.

Dan Bernstein (38:07)

I believe before. He has. He has been that, but he had a dumbass play, too. What are you going to do on the punt, getting that close to a guy for fair catch interference? What is your plan? What are you preparing to do? And he's smart. He stayed in this league. Blackwell has. By being a guy who doesn't make mistakes. So don't be a mistake guy. You can't be he's not the greatest athlete in the world. He's the new Sherrick McManus. There's a new Sherrick in town and his name is Josh Blackwell. So just, you know, don't. Don't be stupid. This team can't afford to be stupid. There's such a fine line between this team being in 7, 3 and God knows what else because of the number of times we're sitting here saying these same things. And now this week, you pay close attention to forward progress this week as we chart all things Chicago Bears, because now the balance is even stranger to. And we'll play it again because I guarantee you right now, Ben Johnson is in the locker room screaming, good, better, best. And they're high fiving and they're all happy and they're jumping up and down and touching each other. And yet he's got a lot of work to do. So he has to reinforce the good he has to talk about. And it's our job, too, and we're trying, believe me. I don't want to take the fun out of that win. But with this high bar and with the fact that every season matters, you're seven and three. You're ahead of the game. Right now, The Bears are 7 and 3.

Matt Abaticola (39:55)

Yeah.

Dan Bernstein (39:55)

After 10 games. And they're taking advantage of some of these lucky breaks that they've gotten. It's okay to say that the quarterbacks, they face the injuries and all of that, they've gotten some breaks, and you make your own break sometimes, but there's a lot of coaching left to be done while also celebrating where they are, appreciating where they are, and being tantalized by what can still be. It's okay to do that. It's okay to say, look, you've graduated from the in the hunt graphic, and now you're. You're a real ass playoff team at the moment. And now you can play like it and you can have that, but there isn't a lot that separates them from being something way worse.

Matt Abaticola (40:43)

Well, yeah, no, there isn't a lot that separates them from being the vikings, who are 4 and 6, you know, or a team that is 3 and 7. It's a pretty fine line for it right now. But the good part is that they are doing a lot of good things. Yeah. And there's a lot to clean up, but they are doing a lot of good things. And imagine if in one of those drives where you're in the lower half of the red zone, instead of a field goal, you. You punch one of those in for.

Dan Bernstein (41:07)

A touchdown, you punch them all in.

Matt Abaticola (41:09)

Yeah, I know.

Dan Bernstein (41:10)

Not just one of them, all of them.

Matt Abaticola (41:12)

I know but even, even one. So like a player two here can make a difference where this isn't a two point game. We're not, you know, hoping for a prayer and a miracle from, from duvernay to, to get a nice return finally that, that they win this game comfortably and all it is is a couple plays. You know, as, as bad as it has been at times, they're still doing enough good things with Ben Johnson calling the plays with knowing what they need to do on defense to keep, you know, opponents lower in points than they are. They're doing enough good things that, that's why they are positive at 7 and.

Dan Bernstein (41:45)

3 right now after rushing for 140 yards is, is what won them this game in large part. 320 total yards. It's, it's not great. But for the Bears, for, for the Bears history, in a slog like this, you got to score more points than 19. Now usually you want to be 23 on average, but the fact that on a day like this where everything was seemed to be like pulling teeth that they could still manage to control the ball as long as they did was great. It's not his preferred way of winning. And you, Ben Johnson is not like a time of possession. Lord, he's, he's a score quick score often who cares how much time it takes kind of coach. But there are some days this, this was one of these, these old time football, Eddie Shore old time hockey. This was one of those where it, you, you knew it probably settled into something that wasn't going to be pretty and they were able to play that game. And I keep getting back to Joe Tuney and what he means and what an acquisition that was and what it has meant. We didn't hear Drew Dahlman's name. We didn't hear Jonah Jackson's name. The guard, center guard. Today there were, there were some, some big uglies up front doing the work when they needed to do it. And it was the, it was the names we didn't hear. I think outside of those tight ends that were really important.

Matt Abaticola (43:13)

Yeah. You know, I really want Caleb to do something that you mentioned a couple weeks ago about the, the, the play action that his, his, his fakes need to be better. You know, getting that ball out there and, and they need to get better at showing that it's yeah, I'm going to hand the ball off and then pull it back. And the one play where he got it. He got it pretty close. It was that fumble play on Swift where he just. He bounced it off his. Off his rib cage. Luckily, Rome was able to recover that.

Dan Bernstein (43:44)

That, that was a great play. I'm glad you mentioned that. The fact. Did you see from where he came from?

Matt Abaticola (43:50)

Oh, yeah. Oh, no. It was great.

Dan Bernstein (43:52)

That is a. That's a huge play by Roma Dunesay.

Matt Abaticola (43:56)

Yeah, absolutely, it is. But, yeah, he does need to get better at those fakes. Like you've talked about before, several homes.

Gardens of Evil Narrator (44:02)

In the suburb of Northwood had the most beautiful landscaping.

Dan Bernstein (44:05)

Such perfection.

Gardens of Evil Narrator (44:06)

The neighbor, responsible retiree Arvin Shreve, reminded.

Gardens of Evil Guest (44:10)

Me of Mr. Rogers.

Gardens of Evil Narrator (44:11)

But Arvin hit a dark secret. My mom took me to this house.

Dan Bernstein (44:15)

And then I never lived with her again.

Gardens of Evil Guest (44:16)

Armin's message was, I have a key to get you into heaven.

Gardens of Evil Narrator (44:20)

Gardens of Evil is the unbelievable story of the Zion Society cult told by those who lived it. Find Gardens of Evil inside the Zion Society cult wherever you listen to podcasts.

Matt Abaticola (44:31)

And then when Manungai is in the game and getting the ball, I want him just getting the ball running downhill. I don't want any deviation. I want him, hey, we're going left or we're going right. I want it real simple with Manungai. And it seems like anytime they try to do a counter play with Manungai, it just, it doesn't work as effectively as it does with Swift. I just, I want him getting the ball and just running and find the other color jerseys and run through them. That's all I want him to do.

Dan Bernstein (44:58)

Then it's going to be blocked up. More gap scheme then than it is going to be the zone stuff at which Swift is better. I think with Manungai, you're talking about some of the I formation stuff where instead of that being window dressing, you're slamming it up in there and that H back is targeting a specific linebacker in the hole and just trying to blow him out. And you're running right off that lead block. I've got no problem with that either. I don't. And I'm not sure what we saw against Cincinnati is really going to tell us what Manung guy is, but there it's. I hate to do this to him, but coaches love guys who they don't. Where they don't have to worry about ball security. And his whole career, everywhere he's been, he's hung out of the ball. Yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure. And I think that that gets you snaps and as long as you can hang onto the ball and you're not a liability in pass protection or you're, you're an asset in pass protection, you're going to see that time. I don't know why they had to squeeze Travis homer out there for one play. What was that? And that face mask. How. How in God's name. I. I'll give referees all over the field all kinds of latitude with as fast as these guys are moving, as big as they are, but that one dude.

Matt Abaticola (46:18)

And there was a, there was another sack that Caleb took two or three guys on him and he got hit in the head again. He took a shoulder pad and a helmet to the head and nothing's called. And then on the one play where he scrambles to the right and it is Dallas Turner that hits him, remember he throws it down the sideline and he's not really throwing anybody, but he drew the play out as long as he could. And then Dallas Turner took about a step and a half or maybe just a full step and knocked him to the ground. And it was completely late. I mean, he wasn't even moving. He just shoved him. Like, I don't understand how that's not called either. I don't understand it. With all these protections for quarterbacks and other games that I watch, how does Caleb Williams not get the same benefit of being a quarterback in this league who gets protected by the referees?

Dan Bernstein (47:04)

There is a note here that should be news to you. The Bears fan with When Aaron Rodgers left the game and Mason Rudolph was in guiding their second half scoring drives, he is being evaluated still for an injury to his left hand. So Aaron Rodgers left with an injury to his non throwing hand and they're saying he was hit illegally. They were roughing the passer penalties against the Bengals. The Steelers initially listed Rogers as questionable, but he did not return to the sideline for the second half. So certainly keep an eye on that as we will. The injury to Tyreek Stevenson, who left with what Aaron Andrews mentioned was a calf injury, I believe and I don't think he returned to the game. So with Jalen Johnson's 21 day practice window opened and his status at the moment uncertain, though he was seen doing a little bit before the game, getting loose and, and smiling a little bit, which is always good to see that they could be thin once again at corner and then trying to figure that out.

Matt Abaticola (48:13)

Yeah, I think when they initially said the Stevenson injury, I, I thought on the screen I read calf and hip, calf slash, hip.

Dan Bernstein (48:20)

Okay.

Matt Abaticola (48:20)

And when they showed him on the sideline again hobbling, I Think he went in for a play and then came back out. It looked like the way he was walking, it would have been like a hip thing.

Dan Bernstein (48:28)

Okay.

Matt Abaticola (48:28)

Yeah. So, yeah, we'll keep an eye on that and see what that is. And again, that's another, another, you know, friendly fire injury. You know, bear on bear injury where Brisker hit Stephenson going for that ball like we had earlier in the year when Sewell got his concussion. That was from Ford. The biggest hit of that game. So, yeah, Bears need to stop hitting each other. It would probably be a good, good way to start. Yeah.

Dan Bernstein (48:49)

Because that was an easy pick too. Yes, it was for either one.

Matt Abaticola (48:52)

Yep.

Dan Bernstein (48:53)

Either one of those guys would have had it and then they end up slamming into each other. But The Bears are 7 and 3 and at the moment with the Lions at 6 and 3 as it stands. You want to take a picture of it, The Bears are atop the NFC north in Ben Johnson's first season. They have a lot of work to do and we are going to have a lot to discuss throughout the week heading in to this next one because there are some stakes now. This stuff is, is mattering for them in a way that it hasn't in a long time. And Maddie and I on forward progress are going to keep you abreast of everything that is going on with your Chicago Bears as it happens. And you know you can. I don't know that there's any particular notes that you want to highlight in some of what we are hearing from the comments centers. I know it moves so damn fast that when I've been in your position, I've had a tough time keeping up with some of it of it. But we look forward to getting your feedback. Feel free to send in all your emails to dan@312sports.com matt@312sports.com and we will begin incorporating that into what is, what is Bears coverage now with something at stake. That's pretty cool.

Matt Abaticola (50:10)

Yeah. And looking at the Bears now at 7 and 3, six games to go on the year like it would. It would be very disappointing. Very, very, very disappointing to not finish with double digit wins. You have six games to go and you're at seven wins. I mean you're looking at a season where, I mean on the, on the high end, I mean, I mean, oh my God, The Bears get 11, 11 wins. How insane would that be?

Dan Bernstein (50:33)

Well, let's also say this. The packers are not what they were earlier. The packers are going in their defenses.

Matt Abaticola (50:41)

Their offense is not.

Dan Bernstein (50:42)

They're going in the wrong direction. And if you are a Bears fan that bases your evaluation of a season only in the games against which they face the packers, this is going to be where they prove their metal. And this is you feel free to be hopeful for some of those because I don't see it in the packers right now. I need to go back and watch today's game. Obviously I wasn't seeing most of what was going on in today's game. Just sort of watching that score out of the corner of my eye. But they've got a chance here, they got a chance here to, to make that larger statement divisionally and but I know Ben Johnson's aware of it.

Matt Abaticola (51:23)

I know it so exciting at that, at that game. Jameis Winston, who started for Jackson Dart was 19 of 29 for 201 yards. He had no touchdown, one interception. Devin Singletary had two touchdowns on 44 yards. Tyrone Tracy Jr. At 88 yards. So they rushed for 132 yards. The running backs did. So the, the, I mean the packers are still they're a top five, you know, worst a top ten defense. It's just it's been their offense and the offensive line that's been an issue. But yeah they're you know they get the win today 27 to 20 but still an opportunity there for, for the Bears to make some and you know create some, some distance in the, in the in the division as they are now with their first divisional win for Ben Johnson as well on this season.

Dan Bernstein (52:13)

So that's going to do it for us. The Bears win it 19 to 17. They have won seven of their first 10 and they keep doing it in heart stopping fashion. Our desires be damned. We thank Beer Church Brewing and also want to remind you you that all week we're going to be covering your Chicago Bears and everything else that's happening. Dan Bernstein Unfiltered we'll have all sports for you and beyond. We aim to drop those Monday through Friday around 11 forward progress drops Monday through Friday at 1 o'. Clock. We've got organizations win championships covering the Bulls that will drop Tuesday evening. They got the Bulls game tonight. Kobe White making his return according to to Billy Donovan and reports out of Utah So we will be covering all of that as well but it's all Bears all the time for the moment because they were able to hang on and outlast the Vikings. So like subscribe rate make sure on YouTube you're getting subscribed so you get all the alerts for when we're on but that's going to do it for us. This has been Chicago Bears Post Game Forward Progress, a Chicago Bears podcast on 312 Sports Ports.