Has the NFL Outgrown the McCaskeys?

Summary

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Forward Progress - A Chicago Bears Podcast

Episode: Has the NFL Outgrown the McCaskeys?

Hosts: Dan Bernstein & Matt Abbatacola | Date: June 9, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, Dan Bernstein and Matt Abbatacola deliver a candid, in-depth exploration of the Chicago Bears’ current ownership crisis. They tackle the big question: "Has the NFL outgrown the McCaskey family?" Using historical context, financial analysis, and a practical critique of the Bear’s stadium debacle, the hosts build a case for why—despite tradition and sentiment—the Bears may need new, modern ownership to thrive in today's NFL landscape.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Table: Why Talk McCaskey Now?

• [02:52] Matt takes the lead: He’s prepared a “presentation” (no slides, but six clear points) to argue why, even though it’s unlikely, the McCaskeys should sell the Chicago Bears.

2. The Stadium Quagmire: A Symptom of Outdated Ownership

• Timeline Recap:
  • Bears bought Arlington Heights land 5 years ago, hired Kevin Warren 3 years ago for the stadium project—yet have never been further from a real plan, even lacking a firm location ([02:52-04:15]).
• Big Picture:
  • "They are further away today than they ever have been from having a stadium project in place, a plan, even a location specifically." — Matt ([02:52])
• Dan’s Contrasting Take:
  • As a taxpayer, he’d prefer the Bears just leave Illinois and become Indiana’s problem ([04:47-05:09]).
• Jokes & Jabs:
  • Bernstein jests about “secret locations” and sarcastically refers to Hammond and the “toxic swamp” stadium options ([05:53, 25:41]).

3. Bears Family History & Ownership Structure

• Mini-History Lesson:
  • Originated as Decatur Staleys (1919), bought and moved by George Halas for $100 in 1921 ([06:07-06:42]).
• Ownership Tree:
  • Halas to Virginia McCaskey, now George McCaskey (since 2011), with Pat Ryan holding a ~20% stake ([07:48-08:33]).
• George McCaskey’s Resume:
  • Illinois assistant state’s attorney (1981-91), but this apparent political experience hasn’t translated into effective stadium dealmaking ([08:33-10:02]).

4. Current Financial Landscape:

• Valuations:

  • Bears valued at $8.2B (7th in NFL), McCaskey family net worth $3.8–$5B—only 19th-21st among NFL owners ([10:25-11:22]).
  • Denver’s Walton family, $77.4B, is #1.

• Funding Shortfall:

  • McCaskeys can’t directly finance a new stadium—they’d need to borrow $2B ("because we don’t have it" — George McCaskey, [14:08]).
  • "They would have to sell the team to have the cash." — Bernstein ([14:49]).

• Quote:

  • “I said yesterday that the NFL is now a billionaires’ game, not a millionaires’ game, and they just don’t run in the right circle to do it.” — Matt ([15:46]).

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Matt’s Six Points: Why the McCaskeys Should Sell

[14:57—19:44; 20:10—20:38]

1. Organizational Modernization

• NFL teams now demand modern, data-driven, professional management. Family-run model holds Bears back.
• “A sale would allow the Bears to adopt a front office structure built for 2026 and beyond, not built for 1985.” — Matt ([16:06])

2. Stadium Development

• Complex billion-dollar projects require more capital, leverage, and speed than a family can provide.
• “Family ownership struggles to move quickly or decisively.” — Matt ([16:57])

3. Competitive Performance

• 5 playoff wins since 1995, no Super Bowl since 1985. Inconsistent leadership.
• “This isn’t due to a lack of fan support. It’s structural.” — Matt ([17:46])
• (Dan jokingly summarizes as "bad football.")

4. Financial Maximization

• Valuations are high—sell now for generational wealth, before the next plateau.
• “Selling now would allow the McCaskeys to capture pre-franchise value.” — Matt ([18:26])

5. Fan Experience & Brand Potential

• Bears underdeliver on stadium amenities, digital engagement, global brand-building—even as a top-3 market.
• “A new owner could transform the Bears into a global brand, not just a historic one.” — Matt ([18:56])

6. Legacy Preservation

• Selling now protects the McCaskey/Halas legacy, avoids future embarrassment.
• “Selling doesn’t erase the McCaskey legacy. It protects it.” — Matt ([19:12])

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The Ownership Structure Reality Check

• Pat Ryan's Wealth:
  • Ryan's $10B fortune (through Aon) could, in theory, fund an NFL team—far outstripping the McCaskeys ([21:06-21:55]).
• NFL Borrowing & Risk:
  • McCaskeys can’t collateralize team value for loans; must sell shares or raise cash privately ([22:24-22:56]).
• Lifestyle Image:
  • George McCaskey portrayed as “modest:”
    • “This is a guy who went to Cubs opening day, parked in a regular spot, walked to the game with his wife.” — Matt ([22:56])

Notable Quote

• “If you look at $2 billion as being a lot...you shouldn’t be in that game. You really shouldn’t.” — Matt ([23:08])

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Is There a Heir Apparent? The Board & Succession

[30:39-36:49]

• Current board: George (chairman), Kevin Warren (CEO), Patrick McCaskey, Brian J. McCaskey, Edward L. McCaskey, Ed McCaskey Jr., and Pat Ryan.
• No Visible Succession Plan:
  • “You don't hear about usually. Like for a 71-year-old, you would have heard about one of the next generation of McCaskeys who is moving up through the organization." — Dan ([30:39-32:19])
  • Jokes about “the battle of the Eds” for next-generation control.

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Leadership Accountability & Modern Realities

• Absenteeism in Crucial Moments:
  • “He was nowhere to be found,”—on George and CEO Kevin Warren’s absence during the Springfield stadium funding bill ([10:09-10:16], [38:10-38:47]).
• Failure to Modernize:
  • “It's kind of dereliction of duty at this point...It’s your job at that point, isn’t it?” — Dan ([37:30-38:10])
• Critical Moment:
  • “This deal that is going to give you tax certainty while you build a new stadium in the suburbs that your grandfather wanted 50 f***ing years ago. This bill is dying. Where are you?” — Matt ([38:10])

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The Future: Stadium Realities, “Swamp” Jokes, & Five-Year Timelines

• Major Barriers:
  • Even if the Bears declared a new stadium project today, they’re 2–3 years from groundbreaking—total timeline: 5+ years ([28:23-28:51]).
• Chicago Market Status:
  • Bears moving to Hammond, Indiana would preclude a new NFL expansion team in Chicago ([43:20-43:39]).
• Dig at Kevin Warren:
  • Dan’s extended “Promised Land” riff, mocking the search for freedom and ending up “in a swamp,” is a memorable comedic moment ([25:41-26:42]).

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Big Takeaway

The Case for Sale:

• Decades of family stewardship can't offset the NFL's leap into “billionaire industrialist” territory—neither financially nor operationally can the McCaskeys keep pace.
• Frustration is clear: the beloved Bears remain hamstrung by resources, slow institutional thinking, and missed modern opportunities.
• Fans Deserve More:
  • “They do not have the means to financially and responsibly lead this team. They don't after 105 years.” — Matt ([20:10])

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Other Topics Briefly Touched

The Diana Rossini / NFL Journalism Scandal

[43:53-51:27]

• Update and skepticism on The Athletic’s internal investigation.
• Discussion on favor-trading, conflicts of interest, and NFL media politics.
• “This is not a black and white investigation...they’re going to narrow the scope to make it so that they’ll pull out paragraphs and say…this is what could be a violation.” — Dan ([47:38])

Chicago Bears Minicamp Preview

[51:44-52:55]

• Mandatory minicamp June 9-11.
• Position battles: offensive line, wide receiver, cornerback, long snapper—“the most important battle” ([52:48-52:55]).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• "This isn’t due to a lack of fan support. It’s structural." — Matt ([17:46])
• “Nobody wants to work for stupid.” — Dan ([39:41])
• “Long snapper. Right after quarterback. Long snapper.” — Dan ([52:55])

Humor Highlight:

• “Follow me. Follow me. Follow me. I'm Kevin Warren. I will bring you to the promised land...What's that smell? Nothing. Don't worry about it. It's the smell of freedom. ... Really? Freedom kind of smells like sewer gas.” — Dan ([25:41-26:42])

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Timestamps by Key Segment

• [02:52] Matt’s “presentation” intro: 6 reasons the Bears should be sold
• [06:07] Brief Bears history
• [10:25] Bears and family value vs. NFL owner rankings
• [14:49] The $2 billion funding gap
• [14:57–19:44] Matt’s six arguments for sale
• [25:41] Dan’s “Promised Land”/toxic swamp stadium riff
• [28:23] Stadium project timelines; reality check
• [30:39–36:49] Succession issues & the Board
• [37:30] Failure of leadership: no presence in crucial political moments
• [39:41–40:39] "Nobody wants to work for stupid.” — impact on player/coach branding
• [43:53–51:27] Diana Rossini/Athletic journalism discussion
• [51:44] Bears minicamp update: battles to watch

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In Summary

Bernstein and Abbatacola present a strong, somber, sometimes biting argument: The McCaskey family, despite its history and good intentions, simply cannot keep the Bears competitive or modern enough for today's NFL. This isn’t a tabloid hit job, but a substantive, reasoned critique—laced with Chicago grit and wit. The solution is clear (if unlikely): the Bears need contemporary, capital-rich ownership to realize their full potential and rejoin the NFL’s upper echelon.

Transcript

[Dan Bernstein]

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[Matt Abeticola]

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[Matt Abeticola]

But I didn't say anything though. Did you say something?

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay, I'm done talking. Start the thing.

[Matt Abeticola]

Why are you done talking?

[Dan Bernstein]

Because I'm not. Just, I'm done now.

[Matt Abeticola]

Why are you.

[Dan Bernstein]

Oh, you started the thing.

[Matt Abeticola]

What thing?

[Dan Bernstein]

I see it. I'm not doing this. I mean, if you're a Bears fan, you're thinking, forward progress. Come on.

[Matt Abeticola]

Forward progress. A chicago bears podcast with dan bernstein and matt abeticola on 312 sports.

[Dan Bernstein]

We give you Forward progress on 312 sports where we talk all things Chicago Bears and don't be a Mr. Pouty Pants. No, he's a different guy.

[Matt Abeticola]

Okay?

[Dan Bernstein]

He sends emails. That's. No, I could. I could never be that. But come on. All right, whatever. I'm done with your silly.

[Matt Abeticola]

Whatever is right. Dan, it's another beautiful day here. We're both alive and happy and healthy and you're right. Let's have fun.

[Dan Bernstein]

Let's have fun. I know you. You are. You've got an impish grin today because you have prepared something. And I, I noticed that you're like, I've got notes and things. You're usually not looking down quite this much and arranging things in front of you. So I, I'm gonna cede the floor to the senator from Libertyville.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah. So here's here's what I did because I said I wanted to turn the focus on to the McCaskeys and George McCaskey specifically right now for the absolute cluster that this entire process has been just a quick, you know, refresher on things. They purchased land in Arlington Heights five years ago. They've hired Kevin Warren over three years ago to head up the stadium project. And they are further away today than they ever have been from having a stadium project in place, a plan, even a location specifically. So I wanted to take a look at some of the history of the McCaskey family with the Chicago Bears. And so, Dan, what I did is I spent some time and I put together like a little presentation of something I would have done for a prospect or a client. If I was going to go into a room and set up a deck and pitch something to either a prospect or a client, I put it together like this is what I would have done. I don't have a deck to share. I'm not going to do that. But I do have six points that I want to make about my presentation today. Dan, for you, about why I believe, and I know this is never going to happen. I know this is just. It's a fun exercise for my own brain to feel better.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay.

[Matt Abeticola]

Why I believe the McCaskeys should sell the Chicago Bears.

[Dan Bernstein]

All right.

[Matt Abeticola]

I don't believe they will, but this is why I believe they should.

[Dan Bernstein]

This is sort of like the people have trouble with nuance in these things. I would need this to. A lot of things that we say fall on. On deaf ears or they're misconstrued by the various bots in the system. You do not think they are going to sell?

[Matt Abeticola]

I do not believe they're going to sell.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay. Just while we're doing these clarifications, people have trouble misunderstanding. I think the best thing for me as a Chicago and Illinois and Cook county taxpayer is for the Bears to up and move to Indiana immediately as soon as possible.

[Matt Abeticola]

That's. That would be my.

[Dan Bernstein]

My.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yes.

[Dan Bernstein]

My actual preferred outcome at the moment, I think would be for them for. For them to impose all of these extra taxes outside of Chicago, Cook county and Illinois with all of these new proposed taxes. Have those be the burden of the Indiana taxpayer and not me.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yes. And I agree with that for you. Okay. You know, and if they really did want to move to Hammond, why aren't they already building in Indiana? Why isn't it happening yet, Dan? Why isn't there a. A site location that declared instead of Anonymous or hidden. This new second location.

[Dan Bernstein]

Secret second location.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah, we don't, we don't know the exact address yet.

[Dan Bernstein]

Is it also near Lost Marsh? Ooh, I'm hearing it could be out near the. What is it, the Hard Rock Casino?

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah, good luck with that. If you want to go to Hammond, why aren't you there yet? Why isn't it done? Okay, they don't want to be there.

[Dan Bernstein]

Right.

[Matt Abeticola]

So let's do a quick, a quick history lesson real fast about the Chicago Bears. And this is for some of our younger crowds who don't know a whole lot about. About the Chicago Bears history. But they originally started as the Decatur staley's, founded in 1919 by a. E. Staley, George Hallis, Edward Dutch Sterneman. They took over operations in 1921, moved the team to Chicago, renamed them the Bears in 1922. Do you know how much George Hallis bought the bears for, Dan?

[Dan Bernstein]

$4.

[Matt Abeticola]

100. Okay, US$100, maybe one.

[Dan Bernstein]

One Benjamin. One snappy Benjamin bill.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yes. Slapped it down on the table and said, I'll take your team. So Halas expanded ownership by acquiring additional shares. And by the mid-1930s, he had full controlling interest of the team. His when, when he passed away, Virginia inherited his ownership in 1983. She owned like 20 between 20 and 23 of the team herself. She had the majority voting rights for the board itself, controlled by 80 of the franchise. 1990, Pat Ryan and Andrew McKenna came in. They bought about 19.7% of the team after McKenna passed away. Those shares were then taken in by Pat Ryan. So Approximately owns about 20 of the team. After Virginia passed away, her voting rights and shares passed on to George. So George McCaskey has been chairman of the board since 2011. After those duties were stripped away from from Michael because of a botched coaching hire.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, that was the last straw because of a lot of things, but that, that was what finally convinced her to be like, that's enough.

[Matt Abeticola]

That's what said, hey, listen, you shouldn't have. This position of power messing up the hiring of a coach pales in comparison to where we're at right now with the stadium debacle. But anyway, George took over as the chairman of the board in 2011. He actually joined the team in 1991. From 91 to 2004, he was the senior director of ticket operations. And then 2004 became a member of the board. Was a member for seven years before he took over as chairman of the board in 2011. Do you know what George McCaskey did prior to joining the Chicago Bears.

[Dan Bernstein]

He was a prosecutor, I believe. I think he went to what, Arizona State Law School and then became. Was an ADA.

[Matt Abeticola]

He was an assistant state's attorney in Illinois from 81 to 91. Dan. For 10 years. He did graduate. He got his JD from Arizona State University College of Law and got his master's of law from the same university in 2021. So just recently. But he spent a decade working as an assistant state's attorney in Illinois, Dan. So I would think just having that decade run as an assistant state's attorney, he, he might know the political background landscape, might even know people within the state itself, might know how to get political things done in the state, possibly. Would you assume that's a valid assumption?

[Dan Bernstein]

I would think a decade in the nuts and bolts of things would give him some working knowledge that would be reasonably

[Matt Abeticola]

absorbed and beneficial and helpful maybe to his current status as chairman of the board. Trying to get a political deal done in Illinois to get a new stadium built. Maybe that would have been helpful. You think I would assume that? Right? I mean, I will. That's a safe assumption.

[Dan Bernstein]

Sure.

[Matt Abeticola]

But then as the final hours pass, as the state, as this bill dies, that would have helped him, his team, build a stadium.

[Dan Bernstein]

He.

[Matt Abeticola]

He was nowhere near to be found.

[Dan Bernstein]

Correct. That's not there. Along Kevin Warren, also not there.

[Matt Abeticola]

All right.

[Dan Bernstein]

The Bears had a representative who is described as standing around like a potted plant.

[Matt Abeticola]

All right. Do you know the current value of the Chicago Bears today?

[Dan Bernstein]

$9 billion.

[Matt Abeticola]

8.2 billion. So they're top 10, so number seven actually in NFL franchise, the McCaskey family. Net worth in searching and digging and going through the Internet, anywhere between 3.8 and $5 billion. That ranks anywhere from like 19th to 21 of list of NFL owners net value.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay.

[Matt Abeticola]

You know who number one is on that list?

[Dan Bernstein]

Number one, NFL total value.

[Matt Abeticola]

Net value. Of ownership.

[Dan Bernstein]

Oh, of ownership.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yep.

[Dan Bernstein]

Cowboys.

[Matt Abeticola]

No. Number one is Denver. Bob Walton at 77.4 billion.

[Dan Bernstein]

Oh, the ownership.

[Matt Abeticola]

Ownership. Yep.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yes. Okay.

[Matt Abeticola]

Two is the Chiefs. The Hunt family. Yep. Three, the Panthers. David Tepper. Four, Seattle. Five. The ranks.

[Dan Bernstein]

Got it. Got it.

[Matt Abeticola]

And then the Bears fall somewhere between 19 and 21, depending on how. How it's valued. 3.8 to $5 billion. So just below the Yorks and the 49ers and just above Janice McNair, 4.6 billion. And the Texans, or they could be a little bit lower than that.

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[Matt Abeticola]

So when when asked about the $2 billion the Bears were going to provide for stadium construction, where did George McCaskey say that money was coming from?

[Dan Bernstein]

He said that there would be a. There would be private funding for two bill they bragged about we're put. We're putting in 2 billion, right?

[Matt Abeticola]

And where's that money coming from? George actually said this on April 1 that they would have to do what they would have.

[Dan Bernstein]

They would have the money now where they borrow that money or are they borrowing. Okay, that. So that specific. They don't just have the 2 billion.

[Matt Abeticola]

They don't just have the 2 billion. They would have to borrow it. And he says it because quote because we don't have it.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay.

[Matt Abeticola]

He talked about in almost saying like, like, almost like it was a badge of honor. This is the risk that we're willing to take on. The risk the family is taking on is borrowing 2 billion to put towards the stadium we want to build.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's just not that big a risk for an NFL stadium. It just really isn't.

[Matt Abeticola]

It's not. But for the family it is. But then the point being, they don't even have $2 billion for their own state.

[Dan Bernstein]

Oh, not even close.

[Matt Abeticola]

Not even close.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay. No. They would have to sell the team to have the cash, right? Yes.

[Matt Abeticola]

Because they just don't have it.

[Dan Bernstein]

Right.

[Matt Abeticola]

So here's my argument, here's my presentation for you, Mr. Bernstein. The strongest argument for the McCaskey family to sell the Chicago Bears. And again, I do not believe this is going to happen. It's just, just what I think should happen is the franchise has outgrown the family ownership model financially, competitively and operationally and now requires modern institutional leadership capable of maximizing its value, facilities and on field success.

[Dan Bernstein]

I do not disagree with the way that is phrased and it is very well phrased. Thank you. The business of the league has outgrown the footprint of the McCaskey family as NFL business people.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yes, I said yesterday that, that the NFL game is now a billionaires game, not a millionaires game. And they just don't run in the right circle to do it. All right, six points for you. Number one, organizational modern modernization. The NFL has shifted towards data driven, aggressively capitalized, professionally managed franchise. The Bears remain one of the few legacy family run operations. Modern contenders like the Chiefs, the Eagles, the Niners. They invest heavily in analytics, sports science and executive talent. A sale would allow the Bears to adopt a front office structure built for 2026 and beyond, not built for 1985. Number two, stadium development. And we've seen this debacle play out before us over the last several weeks. The Arlington Heights project, the ongoing Chicago negotiations, the Hammond sites highlight a core issue. That stadium development today requires billions in capital, political leverage and large scale real estate expertise. Family ownership struggles to move quickly or decisively in these environments. And actually the approach they take is actually hands off. They don't even want to be involved. Which is why this has been such a cluster with Kevin Warden leading them here and there and everywhere. A new owner could deliver a state of the art stadium, unlocking revenue streams the Bears currently leave on the table.

[Dan Bernstein]

Don't add that up. If you want to see what other

[Matt Abeticola]

teams, how they make money and how

[Dan Bernstein]

the Bears do not make money.

[Matt Abeticola]

Oh boy. Yes. All right. Number three, competitive performance. The Bears have five playoff wins since 1995, no Super bowl titles since 1985. And then infrequent GM coach turnover, inconsistent roster building philosophies with the last year's performance. The anomaly right now.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Abeticola]

Bad football. How that develops. Right.

[Dan Bernstein]

I'm just writing. Number three is bad football.

[Matt Abeticola]

This isn't due to a lack of fan support. It's structural. A modern ownership group could bring a united football operations model, long term strategic planning and stability in leadership. Number four is financial maximization. The bears are worth $8.2 billion. Selling now would allow the McCaskeys to capture pre franchise value. NFL valuations have grown 12 to 15 annually. And what I've learned in my research here, many analysts believe the next plateau is coming. A sale would secure generational wealth, the family, while handing the team to an owner capable of capitalizing on, on the next growth phase.

[Dan Bernstein]

And there are people within the family that are nodding their head as you talk about that. Specifically. Yes.

[Matt Abeticola]

Number five, fan experience and brand potential. Chicago is a top three NFL market, yet the Bears lag in stadium amenities, game day experience, digital engagement and merchandising innovation. A new owner could transform the Bears into a global brand, not just an historic one. And you have a superstar quarterback right now that would help launch that. Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

And then Kevin Warren tries at every time, every point he can to glom on and to hijack the on field attention largely generated by that player for his various quixotic stadium misdirections.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yes. Number six. And the final point, legacy preservation. Selling doesn't erase the McCaskey legacy. It protects it. Just like it hasn't erased the Hallis name, it actually protects it. It keeps it. So they would be able to keep the team in Illinois. They steward the franchise. They have, they have actually stewarded the franchise through decades of NFL growth. Gotten to this point now. And selling now allows them to exit gracefully before the narrative becomes the game. Pass them by. Which I think we're on the verge of.

[Dan Bernstein]

I started by saying that.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah that.

[Dan Bernstein]

That's sort of within your first two points of organizational modernization and the, the billions of dollars in capital where the. They're just. Most of these are making that very point that they haven't done to this point what a replacement level NFL franchise would have have done to grow concurrently with league values. Right. So.

[Matt Abeticola]

And remember too $100 he bought it for in 1921. 105 years have passed and they do not have the means to financially and responsibly lead this team. They don't after 105 years. So the Bears need a modern capital rich, professionally structured ownership group to reach their full potential. Something McCaskey family, through no fault of their own, is no longer positioned to provide.

[Dan Bernstein]

What is Pat Ryan, who remains an owner, remains on the board. I believe he owns 20%.

[Matt Abeticola]

20%? Yes.

[Dan Bernstein]

18 to 20%. What is, what is his current worth and what, you know, he's 89. They already just lost Andy McKenna. And I'm wondering what the, the Ryan family or trust or foundation will then be worth at some point. What is that chunk of money?

[Matt Abeticola]

Well, I mean, you know, the A on the company that, that Pat Ryan founded is a 70 billion dollar global company.

[Dan Bernstein]

Right.

[Matt Abeticola]

So I mean, what all his. It's not all his, but I mean, but what's the Ryan family worth? I mean he just wrote a check to build a new Northwestern stadium.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, I think, I think he's worth. I think they crossed 10 billion, I believe.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah, that sounds like it would be a fair, a fair estimate. Sure.

[Dan Bernstein]

I think that's around what Patrick, because they every once in a while Cranes does a list of like the richest people. And now that, you know, Griffin moved, Neil Bloom is always on that list. He's still here. But I believe that it's his, his company, his name, whatever their holding company is, is around 10 billion.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah. And if, if he's north of 10 billion, that would put him in the top 10 of NFL owner's net value. I mean, and that, I mean that's the kind of money that you need to run an NFL team, Dan. They, they, they. I mean, I was on this when, when George said it April 1, that though the risk the family is taking is borrowing the $2 billion, you should have $2 billion. Well, as an NFL owner, Dan, five years it's been in the family.

[Dan Bernstein]

What's the risk? What are you risking? Like, like obviously there's is. You're risking what, you're collateralizing that with what with, with team stock. That's what I wonder. Because the NFL, the NFL won't let you collateralize the borrowing with your, with you. You would have to otherwise raise that cash by selling a chunk rather than putting up your franchise value to borrow it. I don't think you're allowed to do that.

[Matt Abeticola]

No, you're not allowed to do that. But I other, I mean they have other ways that they generate revenue as a family through commercial properties, parking, retail. You know, maybe because I, I took that as him looking at, as A very modest family that they don't spend a whole lot of money personally. I mean, this is a guy who went to Cubs opening day, parked in a regular spot, walked to the game with his wife to go see the game. They don't spend money. So I looked at that and said, he just looks at $2 billion as being so much money for me and you. We, we would do that. For a guy who's owned the, an NFL franchise, whose family's owned it for 105 years, shouldn't look at $2 billion as being a lot. They really shouldn't. If you do, you shouldn't be in that game. You really shouldn't. Dan. I mean, I don't know how else to say it, but, you know, I've made the argument that before it completely passes the family by, they need to give up ownership. They're not going to. And we're on the verge of that. And this whole debacle with the stadium, with Hammond, with Arlington Heights, with, you know, negotiating with downtown still with, with Brandon Johnson, what Kevin Warren did to really sabotage what was happening in Springfield, it really shows that it's on the verge of passing them by. And I know the NFL can't step in and say, hey, you need to do this now. They can under extreme circumstances, like what happened with Jerry Richardson in Carolina, what happened with Daniel Schneider in Washington, they can do that, but they're not going to walk in because someone's financially dumb or.

[Dan Bernstein]

No, they're going to walk in just out of, out of basic stupidity. It's not malice.

[Matt Abeticola]

Right? It's not malice. It's not something that, that does that, that requires them to launch an investigation and step in for the other owners to vote on it. But, but you're at it. You're at a point of being so inept that you're, you're damaging a founding franchise of the NFL. And I don't know what else to say about what we've seen unfold before our eyes the last few weeks to show that they are not capable of running an NFL franchise in 2026.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, I don't think it's, it's a well made case. It is a well presented case. And I don't think you're going to find a lot of people who disagree with you. Yeah, but at this point, the practical question is because they've painted themselves into a corner here because all of Kevin Warren's wheeling and dealing and focus over here and focus over has led them to a swamp.

[Matt Abeticola]

I love how that's it's where you always take it. It's so good.

[Dan Bernstein]

Because that's what's happened.

[Matt Abeticola]

What it is, right?

[Dan Bernstein]

Follow me. Follow me. Follow me. I'm Kevin Warren. I will bring you to the promised land, the land of milk and honey. Let my people go and follow me out. Follow me to freedom. Financial freedom. Where are you? What's that smell? Nothing. Don't worry about it.

[Matt Abeticola]

It's all good.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's the smell of freedom. It doesn't smell like freedom. That's freedom. Trust me. That's what freedom smells like. Really? Freedom kind of smells like sewer gas. Why expect freedom to smell this way? Kevin, don't worry about it. Come on. Gaze upon the promised land. Are those. Is that landfill? Are those smokestacks? Why does it smell here? Kevin, it's all. It's okay. It's okay. This. This. This. Gaze upon it. And Alexander wept when he saw the breath of his domain. But Dan like this, he realized there were no more worlds to conquer. Benefits of a classical education. Kevin, you're fired.

[Matt Abeticola]

The most recent statement they put out was completely unnecessary. Like, you.

[Jake Stauch]

You.

[Matt Abeticola]

You call whoever in Indiana and say, hey, we're ready to close this deal up. Let's, like, we'll. We'll be out tomorrow. Let's.

[Dan Bernstein]

Let's. It's all. It's over. This con is done.

[Matt Abeticola]

Right?

[Dan Bernstein]

We. We can't. We're not gonna, you know, rebuild any of this stuff.

[Matt Abeticola]

Right? We're not gonna keep. Keep dragging this out. Let's. Let's get together tomorrow. Yeah, let's. Let's. Let's work this out.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, it means. It means begin a process that's going to take many, many, many, many years because they haven't done the work yet. They. There haven't really been actual inspections. And all the governmental stuff that has to go on here. They don't even know what's habitable. They're so far away. It's not just that they haven't done that. It's how far away they are. Even if they wanted to, even if this morning they said, that's it. We are declaring that it's over. And one way or another, we are building in the toxic swamp. We don't know exactly where or how toxic or how swampy, but it's going to be toxic. It's going to be swampy, but we're going to do it right now, even now, be like, okay, well, you haven't hired anybody, right?

[Matt Abeticola]

I mean, we. We talked about two of the most modern stadiums that have been recently Built. And you're looking at a time frame that anywhere from like 36 to 48 months. That's to build. And they are nowhere near that starting point even. I mean, you're years away from even getting to the starting point.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yes.

[Matt Abeticola]

So what, what are we, what are we looking at?

[Dan Bernstein]

A minimum of five years until completion of the entire project? If. Are we talking, are we talking just stadium or are we talking mixed use entertainment?

[Matt Abeticola]

Just talking just stadium.

[Dan Bernstein]

A minimum of.

[Matt Abeticola]

If.

[Dan Bernstein]

They started digging today.

[Matt Abeticola]

No, but they couldn't though, because they have, there's so much work they have to do first.

[Dan Bernstein]

I don't know, five.

[Matt Abeticola]

I mean, I, I would say at this, I mean you're, you're probably two or three years away from even starting to dig, to build after you do all your work. And they haven't even, they're not even close to getting that work started yet because they still haven't come to a deal, you know, because they don't want to leave Illinois.

[Dan Bernstein]

Of course not.

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[Dan Bernstein]

let's just say that they could do what the White Sox did, where Jerry Reinsdorf made an arrangement for a succession plan. Justin Ishbia will own the Sox when Jerry dies because we knew that when they die, it's going to be sold. And now just like, look, instead of doing that, this is who's going to own it and he can start making the plans and be the next guy and, and be the, the owner. Elect the owner in waiting. Would the NFL let the Bears do something like that at some point if they said we are going to begin exploring this change, I don't know exactly how it would work, but even just a. If we had an inkling that this entire experiment that you're doing, this entire exercise had an end goal. I know there are forces within the ownership group, within the McCaskey family that would love to do what you're doing, just not everybody agrees. There's a lot behind the scenes of how Virginia's shares got tied up when they purchased the McKenna shares that were outstanding and where the power lies here. But I would love to know George is what 70, 71 sounds about, right? Yeah, I think that's right. Like there's got to be a. Gotta be a plan here you don't hear about usually. Like for a 71 year old you would have heard about one of the next generation of McCaskeys who is moving up through the organization.

[Matt Abeticola]

Right? He's 70. Yeah. I mean that, that's, that was a question I had.

[Dan Bernstein]

Like that's what.

[Matt Abeticola]

Who's after George.

[Dan Bernstein]

That's what I'm wondering is, is in most of these other owners there's a kid. I don't know if Woody Johnson is going to promote his brick and stick. If they're going to take it all over and run it like they're playing Madden. But, but you hear of them. We never even hear of who of the next generation is ready to say this is how we're going to do it. We're going to get serious, you know, whether it was what happened with Rocky Wirtz or and then Rocky became the old out of touch guy and then he died and then Danny took it over and they're trying to do their best by doing right by some people that they had wronged before and trying to do things a little differently. Trying. But who are those people in this ownership group behind that weird curtain? I keep finding that strange. There's no force in there. There's no younger person. He's 71. Is he the young guy? Just because you went from somebody who's 110. Where are the people who want to be involved in the Bears who. Who are on the board?

[Matt Abeticola]

It's obviously. George is the Chairman, Kevin the CEO, Patrick McCaskey, Brian J. McCaskey, Edward L. McCaskey, Ed McCaskey Jr. And Pat Ryan. That's your seven board members.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay, Ed McCaskey Jr. How old is he? Like, where are these people? Where are these people? Maybe it is Ed McCaskey Jr. I don't know anything about him. How old is he? Seriously? Like, is. Is that the person saying that? Go, hey, Bernstein, I'm there. I'm. I'm ready to take it over because I think it. I think Edward is Patrick's son. Is that right? Edward L. It's not Junior. It's Edward L. McCaskey.

[Matt Abeticola]

No, but then there's a. There's Ed McCaskey Jr. Oh, there is.

[Dan Bernstein]

So there's two Ed McCaskeys.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yes, there is. What did I just say? Edward L. McCaskey and Ed McCaskey Jr. Ah.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay. I want to get. Because that's important to note that they're two different people. Edward L. Is Patrick's son. All right. Is he involved? Is he. The guy here's a Tribune.

[Matt Abeticola]

I mean, he's on the board, right?

[Dan Bernstein]

Here is a Tribune story from Paul Sullivan. This was written last August. And he quotes a Tribune profile in 2011 that David Ha wrote, I want people to know me. For me, it was a struggle in high school to make real, genuine friends. Because it was. You're the kid who owns the Bears. Why would. Why would that be. Make it hard to make friends at New School or Loyola Academy? Exactly. That makes it hard to make friends. Okay, I hope you don't think that I'm not going to be your friend. You own the Bears.

[Matt Abeticola]

Unless you're. Yeah, unless you're, like, a big packers fan.

[Dan Bernstein]

Just saying. Where'd you go to high school? Green Bay.

[Matt Abeticola]

Odd choice.

[Dan Bernstein]

You. Why can't you make friends? Well, you know, I'm. I'm the grandson of the Bears owners. Oh, I feel so sorry. Of course you can't make friends. Why would anybody be friends with you? The hell is that? You're not friends with you for other reasons. That's even a bigger worry then.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah, I. I don't know. So, like, who's. Who's after. Who's after George? Maybe it's Edward l. Or Ed Jr.

[Dan Bernstein]

Or maybe it's a battle of the Eds. Maybe there can be only one, and it's like Highlander and the.

[Matt Abeticola]

The Two EDS enter, one Ed leaves.

[Dan Bernstein]

Right. One one Ed can only.

[Matt Abeticola]

Or.

[Dan Bernstein]

Or the Ed's are fused into Mega Ed and you get this. Like Giant Ed junior Combines with Edward

[Matt Abeticola]

L. Yeah, I don't know, but I was just. I was.

[Dan Bernstein]

Or it's like Black Panther where they have to have the fight in the waterfall.

[Matt Abeticola]

I was really just blown away. I mean, you know, George has his J.D. and his. I mean, he spent 10 years working

[Dan Bernstein]

in the state of Illinois in courtrooms.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah. Like, he's got no political leverage at all. He's just more interested in not being involved. Like, that's the thing that gets me. Like, I can appreciate an owner that hires people and lets them do their job, but when you, you have a. A resume and experience, a history of working within the state politics, and you're not involved in what's happening right now with the franchise that your family's owned for over 100 years.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, it's kind of dereliction of duty at this point. I know it's your.

[Matt Abeticola]

The chairman of the board.

[Dan Bernstein]

I know it's your toy and you don't, you don't really owe anybody anything. But that gets back to the unspoken public contract.

[Matt Abeticola]

Are you.

[Dan Bernstein]

Are you a steward of, of a public resource?

[Matt Abeticola]

I mean, he's not one of Virginia's kids that just happens to benefit by being a McCaskey who was grandfather of

[Dan Bernstein]

George can't make friends. Maybe George can't make friends. Right.

[Matt Abeticola]

But he's the chairman of the board. If any One of the McCaskeys should be involved. I know, like rolling their sleeves up and getting part of this, it's the chairman of the board.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's your job at that point, isn't it?

[Matt Abeticola]

Hey, this, this deal that is going to give you tax certainty while you build a new stadium in the suburbs that your grandfather wanted 50 fucking years ago. This bill is dying. Where. Where are you? Oh, I got games to umpire this weekend. Where were you, George?

[Dan Bernstein]

Busy.

[Matt Abeticola]

Your CEO who wants you to go build in a toxic swamp, where were you?

[Dan Bernstein]

One of the biggest days in the history of the franchise. Where was he? Where was he not there? He was somewhere else.

[Matt Abeticola]

But I mean, George, you're the chairman of the board. This is your gig.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, nicely done, Matty. That was well conceived and well executed. But I have to say, I wish it mattered.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah, that's the thing. It doesn't matter. It was more for my own benefits and my mind.

[Dan Bernstein]

I wish it mattered, but it doesn't matter.

[Matt Abeticola]

It doesn't matter. And. And they should, because it's it's like the, the window of, it's about to close. It's going to pass this family up and it's only going to hurt the Bears fans in the end. Where is.

[Dan Bernstein]

We need to, we need to talk to the eds, you know, because I

[Matt Abeticola]

mean a few people commented to us, Dan, after the show yesterday about, you know, we, we don't know how this is wearing on Caleb and it could not at all. Maybe he's completely unfazed by it and maybe it does, maybe it is. There's a little wrinkle in his thought process and says, you know what? This organization doesn't match what I'm trying to build for myself. How does that impact Ben Johnson too?

[Dan Bernstein]

I mean, nobody wants to work for stupid. Nobody wants to work for stupid.

[Matt Abeticola]

Unless you're stupid. You do.

[Dan Bernstein]

And nobody wants to associate a valuable brand with something that makes it less than its maximum value. And when Caleb Williams signs this next deal, he's a massive brand. Is it good business for him to stay with the Bears? Would it be better business for him to leave? I think it could be argued both ways but I would, it's, it would be his job perhaps to hire a consulting firm or hire an investment bank. Now this is, this is the kind of thing, this is what Goldman Sachs does is you, you spend a lot of money and you say or McKinsey or whoever it is and say is my brand better off with the Bears or with replacement level NFL team?

[Matt Abeticola]

How am I going to, they could, they could forecast what happens to his.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

How am I going to be more successful business wise and, or football wise? You could get into the football stuff too. Looking at history and looking at hiring and looking at the way the scouting, you know, am I getting the same shot to win as other teams do who have spent more money on infrastructure and would you talk about the modernization and the bad football? Put both points one and three to your presentation and that's all. I know it made people angry, but that's what people do in our world, in our capitalist society, we are encouraged to always make sure we are making the right decisions for a lot of these cynical reasons. And Caleb Williams is no different. He has a lot, a lot at stake in that decision and it shouldn't make you mad.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah, and I love the, the, the, the chat we have here with our buddy Bill and he, you know, he, I don't know if you saw this, what he sent us this morning about cheaper machines, costlier buildings.

[Dan Bernstein]

Oh, how they picked exactly the wrong

[Matt Abeticola]

time the absolute worst time drag this out. Yes. The relative price of structures is now 80% higher than its 1970 level. The upward trend extends across most of high income economies. I mean, I mean it's just with, with each passing week, each passing month, just the, the cost is just going up so much higher that they couldn't have picked a worse time to do this right now.

[Dan Bernstein]

That's your guy, Kevin Warren. That's. It was three and a half years you hired him and now you are standing overlooking a swamp. Yeah.

[Matt Abeticola]

And I'm, I'm just gonna say, man, it's, it's time. If you're, if you're going to Hammond, go, go, go get it done. Like be. I get on the phone right now, get on a zoom, do what you need to do, go drive across the state border since it's so easy to get there and, and get, and get the, get the, get the process started and get it done.

[Dan Bernstein]

And I just. And again, that would be ideal. It'd be absolutely ideal. Stick Hammond with it. Stick Hammond with all these extra taxes that they're foisting on everybody and everything they do to say, oh, it's all, it's all coming out of this and that and that and we're not paying for it. You're not paying for it and you're not paying for this. Okay, well, who else isn't getting money that would have been spent on this, this, this or this? We have your concern. We have not even heard of. Carly Irsay was going to weigh in. I wonder how they feel about the state getting another NFL team and what it means for them. I don't know if they have a thought at some point, that ownership group. Yeah.

[Matt Abeticola]

And I wonder if, you know, when the Bears do go to Hammond because that's obviously where they're going. Everyone's telling me would, would the city. I mean, is there a possibility of expanding into the city with a new franchise?

[Dan Bernstein]

Nope, that's. That, that is, it's still considered Chicagoland, so.

[Matt Abeticola]

No.

[Dan Bernstein]

No. Okay, well, there you go. I don't think it is possible.

[Matt Abeticola]

I mean, but they're, they're heading to Hammond. It's tells me that.

[Dan Bernstein]

Oh, yeah, that's it. They've made their announcer. We're celebrating. Okay, okay, okay. I wanted to get to something else before we're done today.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yes, sir.

[Dan Bernstein]

Dish has been connecting communities like yours for the last 45 years, providing the TV you love at a price you can trust. Watch live sports news and the latest movies, plus your favorite streaming apps. All in one place. Switch to DISH today and lock in the lowest price in satellite TV starting at 89.99amonth with our two year price guarantee. Call 888-@dish or visit dish.com today and that is this note from Awful announcing and I'm glad they stayed on top of this because I forgot it's been about two months since the New York Post first published the bombshell photos that set off a weeks long news cycle about the apparent relationship between the Athletic NFL reporter Diana Rossini and New England Patriots head coach Mike Vrabel. Those photos would lead to an internal investigation by the New York Times, which owns the Athletic. Days later, Rossini would resign from her post at the Athletic, but the internal investigation into her reporting continued. Now, many weeks later, there has still been no public comment from the Times regarding its internal investigation into Rossini, and it appears as if there won't be any update into the findings of the investigation for at least several more weeks. According to a new report in the Post, the athletics top editor Stephen Ginsberg told staffers last week the findings of the investigation will eventually be revealed, but it's still weeks away. It's going to take a few more weeks, ginsburg reportedly said at a routine all hands meeting with staffers. There's just a lot to go through and we obviously want to take our time and be careful doing that. We will update everybody when we get to the end of that. We've also said that if we find anything that needs to be corrected, we will correct it along the way. But remember, we can't trust this guy Ginsburg because he was the person that immediately, without thinking, reflexively went to bat for Diana Rossini, right? Remember these photos, they're misleading out of context. She was there with a group, they lack essential context, which we know they didn't. And then he backtracked. Parts of Rossini's past reporting have already been called into question, having potentially helped Vrabel during his previous stint with the Titans. The Times investigation is designed to be thorough and provide a holistic representation of Rossini's reporting throughout her tenure, going well beyond the speculation that is already out there. So I think they're going to be able to hide behind the specificity of their investigation if they are trying to say we are looking through the actual words reported to see if there are violations, perception of violations, conflicts of interest in our reporting that that would merit apologies being addressed in the errata, make goods of some kind, any other biases that would be evidenced in the reporting that is A far cry from the obvious conflicts of interest and the obvious internal biases that they can say, well, the words don't show that we as an organization, as the New York Times are, we're not on the hook for that. So there is. This is not a black and white investigation. This is going to be up to them to decide what rises to their internal level of needing correction, clarification, etc. Regardless of what everyone knows is obviously going on and has been going on, the real investigation that needs to go on is, is there anybody else out there? Is there anybody else? Or were there any other untoward relationships? Were there any other off the books relationships that allowed for certain accesses? That's what I thought some of this would be. But my guess is that they're going to narrow the scope to make it so that they'll pull out paragraphs and say, maybe this modifier or this word or this tone is an indication of what could be a violation of our policies and make it much more editorially wonky than answering the question, what the is going on with this? I don't think that's what they're trying to answer.

[Matt Abeticola]

Oh, they're not, they're not trying to answer that. That, that actually should be what the NFL should be trying to find out. And they have no interest in it.

[Dan Bernstein]

Oh, no, no, I know they don't. Right. Yeah. That doesn't serve them at all. Because then you also, and people have brought up the slippery slope in general, like, well, if you're relationship. What about all these other people in their relationships that they may not be sexual, but they're trading favors.

[Matt Abeticola]

Right. They have no interest in finding that out or understanding what's taking place. None whatsoever. I think, I think because they just don't want, they don't want to open up that can of worms and, and see where it leads. No, they don't want to open that door and walk down that path and find out where, where does it go?

[Dan Bernstein]

What other, what other terms favors are there, who's scratching who's back? And also you do get into actual journalism like that. That's, that's part of it. There are things that it doesn't have to rise to having a sexual relationship, but there are favors traded all the time. But some of that is part of the process.

[Matt Abeticola]

That's part of the business, though, at times, though, Dan, that's what building that

[Dan Bernstein]

relationship is about, finding stuff out. And when you're carry on this. Yeah, right.

[Matt Abeticola]

When you're, when you're compromising your own journalistic, you know, standing standards. Yeah, that, that, that. Yeah. And if you're, if you're influenced in your voting and NFL awards and recognition and the monetary value that comes with those things because of a relationship or because someone told you this story and you. They slid you this story and you got the first one with it and yeah, I'll give you this vote or give your guy that vote. That's, that's what the NFL doesn't want to loan. They, they, they. The NFL does not want to learn that because, yeah, it's not just about the sexual relationship. Again, that, the sexual stuff. That's for his wife to forgive him or, or whatever. That, that's for their own. That's for their own personal relationship to figure out with her and her husband as well. I got nothing to do with that. I don't care about that. That's for, that's for them to figure out. It's the business of the NFL that the NFL should care about and they don't.

[Dan Bernstein]

Just thought I'd keep you updated on where that stands. I don't expect that there's going to be surprising, shocking, massive revelations that come out of this. I do think that this is an internal investigation for internal purposes. So they can just say, here's what we knew, here's when we knew it. Here's the affected reporting. Here are any clarifications or changes that we want to make or regrets that we want to express about things we should have known at a certain time

[Matt Abeticola]

in time and we're sorry that we didn't.

[Dan Bernstein]

But yeah, I think, I think that's what that is going to be. So we covered a lot here on the eve of Bears. This is the veterans next, right. We're getting set for some actual. It's not just going to be. We have more action soon, right? When is more.

[Matt Abeticola]

More people's involved?

[Dan Bernstein]

When does it start? When do we have.

[Matt Abeticola]

You're exactly right on that.

[Dan Bernstein]

I'm just curious about the dates for minicamp. About when, when the next round is of guys running around in shorts. It's going, it's, it's. It's mandatory minicamp. June 9th to June 11th.

[Matt Abeticola]

No, that's today.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay. Yeah. This is mandatory minicamp. Three practices before the summer break. No pads. But we've got the positional battles, right. This is going to be what all the ones we've been talking about, whether it's Garrett Bradbury and Logan Jones or Braxton Jones and Karen Amogaje, apparently not Jedrick Willis or Theo Benedict.

[Matt Abeticola]

And then you have Muhammad and Stevenson. Yep. Another one.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yep. And whatever's happening at wide receiver between Khalif Raymond and Xavion Thomas and Burden and Dunes. But we'll keep an eye on all of it. Oh, the first one we identified, long snapper. The big battle. Luke Elkin versus Bo Gardner.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah, the most important battle.

[Dan Bernstein]

Oh, yeah, that's, that's the, the heavyweight matchup.

[Matt Abeticola]

That's the, the right after quarterback. Long snapper.

[Dan Bernstein]

Long snapper. So this is coach, three practices that are going to start setting the tone for some of these battles, and we're going to keep an eye on all of them and make sure you're up to date on all things Chicago Bears, because that's what we do here. On Forward Progress, a Chicago Bears podcast on 312Sports for progress is stopped. 10, 2192019

[Matt Abeticola]

forward progress, a Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312 Sports.

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[Dan Bernstein]

Com.