How Protected is Mike Vrabel?

Summary

Forward Progress - A Chicago Bears Podcast

Episode: How Protected is Mike Vrabel?

Hosts: Dan Bernstein & Matt Abbatacola

Date: April 30, 2026

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Overview

In this post-draft, pre-rookie-minicamp episode, Dan Bernstein and Matt Abbatacola dive deep into the current state of the Chicago Bears, the NFL’s remaining free agent market with a particular focus on edge rushers, and, most notably, the ongoing off-field drama surrounding Mike Vrabel and its coverage (or lack thereof) in the NFL media. The conversation blends football analysis, team-building strategy, and a sharp critique of double standards in NFL narratives related to character and reputation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bears’ Free Agent Edge Needs and Options

Timestamps: 01:46–14:44

• The hosts sift through a CBS Sports article outlining the edge rusher needs of various teams, focusing on which fits remain for the Bears.
• Both Dan and Matt settle on Jadeveon Clowney as the standout available edge who provides value, versatility, and fits Chicago’s needs—without prior coordination, reinforcing their football alignment.
  • Matt (07:07):
    “He can fit the type of end or edge that Dennis Allen wants. In his defense, he still can be productive… I think Clowney is that perfect fit financially and ability wise.”
  • Dan (08:03):
    “He’s versatile … can play 4-3 edge and can line up wherever they want.”
• Discussion on the Bears’ current roster of pass rushers: confidence is largely limited to Montez Sweat and Booker; the rest are unproven or special teamers.
• They dismiss other potential defensive line options (D.J. Reader, DaQuan Jones, Calais Campbell) as either financial misfits or declining assets.

Notable Quote:

"If you look at the Bears current roster, who do they have that you are confident can get after the quarterback? For me it's two names and that's it."
— Matt Abbetacola (08:56)

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2. NFL Defensive Trends & Bears’ Scheme Fit

Timestamps: 10:34–11:55

• Dan reflects on the evolution of NFL defenses—the difference between 4-3 and 3-4 now blurred due to nickel packages and versatile fronts.
• Clowney’s adaptability to different looks and alignment is valued, especially for Dennis Allen’s variable fronts.

Notable Moment:

“There are no four-threes anymore… most four-threes are four-two-fives. Linebackers don't define defenses anymore.”
— Dan Bernstein (10:46)

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3. Dissecting Character Narratives: Diego Pavia, Strip Clubs & Sliding Scales

Timestamps: 15:45–25:48

• Matt raises the issue of New Mexico State QB Diego Pavia:
  • The negative “character” label stemming from him being seen at a strip club.
  • How smaller, fringe talent players are judged more harshly for personality or off-field decisions.
• Comparison is made to successful, physically gifted players and coaches, who are given far more leeway for “bigger” character issues.
• Bernstein expands it to the fundamental hypocrisy of NFL culture regarding talent, reputation, and moral outrage.
• Both express that character judgments fluctuate based on talent and standing—leading to a double standard.

Notable Quotes:

"If Diego Pavia was 6'4", 235, but same brothers, same attitude… it would matter, but there’d be all kinds of more intense efforts to counterbalance this.”
— Dan Bernstein (19:18)

“This idea of what’s okay, what’s not okay. Look, it’s perfectly legal to go to a strip club… he may just be an idiot.”
— Dan Bernstein (24:23)

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4. Mike Vrabel, Diana Russini, and NFL Double Standards

Timestamps: 15:51–24:28, resumes at 30:05–33:02

• The biggest story of the NFL offseason: Allegations and intrigue involving Mike Vrabel and Diana Russini.
• The hosts critique how Vrabel’s success as a player (Patriots, three Super Bowl rings) and coach shields him from deeper scrutiny, citing the league’s and media’s willingness to bury controversy for someone with his resume.
• Robert Kraft’s intervention to shield Vrabel (and, by extension, the Patriots) is noted as indicative of the NFL’s system of reputation defense for “made men.”
• There is clear frustration at the lack of rigorous journalism from major NFL media partners (notably ESPN).

Notable Quotes:

“It's a pretty extreme example if the larger point is we've got a comically sliding scale when it comes to the outrage police.”
— Dan Bernstein (24:18)

“The whole league… everybody’s willing to die on this hill for Mike Vrabel.”
— Matt Abbatacola (30:08)

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5. Narrative Management & NFL News Cycles

Timestamps: 31:01–33:02

• The league’s strategic use of other stories as distractions is discussed—specifically, the timing of officiating assignments and the coming schedule release.
• Both note that ESPN and others have a direct stake in downplaying damaging stories, while The Athletic claims to be conducting its own investigation.

Notable Moment:

“The business that employed her don’t appear all that interested in finding anything out… The people that do provide information and publish journalistic standards don’t really seem to care.”
— Dan Bernstein (32:28)

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6. Quick Bears/League Notes & Humor

Timestamps: 33:39–41:59

• Shout-out to Andrew Billings signing with the Cardinals (“Big Bill”).
• Brief update on the Steelers' situation with Aaron Rodgers: The ongoing wait for Rodgers’ return, and why both hosts hope for a more entertaining conclusion to his career.
• Extended comedic riff on “Exploding Taint Syndrome” and medical school “trauma videos.”
  • Both riff on doctors’ inability to find humor in fatal taint swelling—a light, irreverent close to a heavy episode.

Memorable Exchange:

“There’s something wrong with you if you can’t be entertained by the concept of dying from a swollen taint.”
— Dan Bernstein (39:07)

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Chapter Timestamps

• Bears’ Edge Rusher Needs & Market: 01:46–14:44
• Scheme Fits & Defensive Philosophies: 10:34–11:55
• Diego Pavia & Character Double Standards: 15:45–25:48
• Vrabel, Reputation, & NFL Hypocrisy: 21:02–24:28 & 30:05–33:02
• NFL Narrative Management: 31:01–33:02
• Around the League / Humor: 33:39–41:59

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Notable Quotes & Moments

1. “That’s all you need—rotational weapon.” — Matt Abbatacola on Clowney (08:56)
2. “If there's anything [Booker] can learn about that craft, I think that would be very helpful as well.” — Matt Abbatacola (11:55)
3. “We’ve got a comically sliding scale when it comes to the outrage police.” — Dan Bernstein (24:18)
4. “The whole league… willing to die on this hill for Mike Vrabel.” — Matt Abbatacola (30:08)
5. “There’s something wrong with you if you can't be entertained by the concept of dying from a swollen taint.” — Dan Bernstein (39:07)

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Tone & Style

• The conversation is equal parts analytical and sardonic, with the hosts swinging from rigorous Bears/NFL roster discussion to irreverent, sometimes dark humor about medicine and NFL culture double standards.
• Both Dan and Matt balance deep Bears fandom with an unrelenting skepticism of establishment NFL narratives.
• The episode is sprinkled with camaraderie, inside jokes, and a willingness to skewer both media and player/coach behavior.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode is a prime example of Bernstein and Abbatacola’s style: precise Bears/NFL roster breakdowns, thoughtful and challenging discussion of reputation and character narratives in the league, and plenty of raw fan energy (laced with laugh-out-loud asides). The podcast serves as both a Bears news digest and commentary on why the NFL is still an imperfect mirror of its stars, coaches, and corporate partners.

Transcript

[Dan Bernstein]

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[Matt Abeticola]

Forward Progress a Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312 Sports.

[Dan Bernstein]

You've been awarded forward progress here on 312 Sports. And that means it is time to talk about the Chicago Bears and the N NFL. We are in that period post draft and pre rookie minicamp where it's just kind of like, all right, what do they have? What do they need? And for the Bears, this really isn't something we got to overthink. And I wasn't sure about it until I looked. There's a big story, you know, with a lot of people around the football media here looking for stuff and the cbs sports.com piece that they did was every team's biggest position to improve post draft and the best free agent solution to that need.

[Matt Abeticola]

Well, that's funny because I actually I have in my notes I have a guy that I think the Bears need to sign as a free agent if

[Dan Bernstein]

they're able to promise me you didn't see this.

[Matt Abeticola]

I did not. I did not read the CBS thing. I read one thing off CBS today. And it was the baseball thing I shared with you on dbu. I did not look at any football stuff.

[Dan Bernstein]

All right, so what they said was, they said Tuesday we had the news that Juwan Jennings is visiting with the Vikings. Maybe the first step and the top remaining free agent finding a new home. Jennings was the number 34 free agent in this year's class, according to their rankings, is just one of two players in the top 40, along with Joey Bosa, who's 37th. He's not my guy yet to sign a contract. He's not my guy either. But we got to throw all that stuff out. I mean, even if you, if you feel he's a. He's a dope, he might help. He said. What they said was there are plenty of other wide receivers and edge defenders available.

[Matt Abeticola]

I have an edge. I have a defensive end.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, do you?

[Matt Abeticola]

Well, I do.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, just wait. I'm not done. While many veterans may wait until much closer to the start of the season, others will want to sort out their new home sooner rather than later. So I'm going to look at the teams that they have, if they are where they have identified edge as a need, and see if it's like, well, the same free agent fit for everybody there. So let's just go through these. The Houston Texans need an edge.

[Matt Abeticola]

Okay.

[Dan Bernstein]

The free agent fit that CBS Sports has is Leonard Floyd.

[Matt Abeticola]

Take them.

[Dan Bernstein]

Said Will Anderson and Dan and Daniel Hunter. Absolutely outstanding. But one of the Texans biggest advantages is rotating in other players to get the star pairing. Some breathers. Floyd has been productive for a long time. At least eight and a half sacks every season from 2020 to 2024. Okay, so that's one I'm still scrolling for. The Dallas Cowboys. They need an edge.

[Matt Abeticola]

They do.

[Dan Bernstein]

Who's the free agent fit? Joey Bosa.

[Matt Abeticola]

Oh, take him. Yes. Love it. That's a great. That's a great marriage right there. Take that. Yes.

[Dan Bernstein]

Bosa could help. Currently, Dallas is depending on Rashawn Gary, who struggled. Rookie Malachi Lawrence, second year player Donovan Azuraku, who had just two sacks. Bosa had five sacks, five forced fumbles and nine tackles for loss last year in Buffalo.

[Matt Abeticola]

Not interested.

[Dan Bernstein]

You're not at all. You're sure?

[Matt Abeticola]

I'm not at all interested in Joey Bosa.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay.

[Matt Abeticola]

No, there's a guy that I'm very interested in though. All right.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, Joey Bosa is also listed as the fit for the 49ers who need an edge because they had one of the most anemic pass rushes in The NFL injuries to Nick Bosa and Mikel Williams played their parts. A Bosa brother tandem could work well as Joey showed. He could still get it done.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah, they line up on the same side.

[Dan Bernstein]

The New Orleans Saints need edge help. So who would be a good fit for them, you ask? Well, Cameron Jordan, guy that was there, that's what. Yeah. Okay. So he can still be helpful against

[Matt Abeticola]

the run of the past seven. Yep.

[Dan Bernstein]

It would feel, it would feel strange for him to suit up for any other team. Jeremy Sacks he had last year,

[Matt Abeticola]

did he have 12?

[Dan Bernstein]

10 and a half.

[Matt Abeticola]

10 and a half.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay. His most since 2021. Now there's the. There are two teams also in need of edge for whom they have listed the same person.

[Matt Abeticola]

And who are the teams?

[Dan Bernstein]

The Jaguars and the Bears.

[Matt Abeticola]

All right, then it's got to be my guy. Maybe three agents that are left.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, maybe they have listed for the Jaguars and the Bears the same name. That being Jadevion Clowney, my guy.

[Matt Abeticola]

That's who I've written down. Okay. My notes right here.

[Dan Bernstein]

I trust you. I believe you. Zachary Perez, the author of this piece, he writes of this. If you can't tell, I'm a big fan of Clowney. He still plays the run and the pass well and that's something the Bears very much need. A one year deal for. The former number one pick makes plenty of sense.

[Matt Abeticola]

He's 33. His deal last year with the Cowboys, we had eight and a half sacks, was maxed out at six million. I think it was right around 3.45 million. I, I think that's, that's the conversation to have. Bring him in, have a conversation with that guy. He can fit the type of end or edge that Dennis Allen wants. In his defense, he still can be productive. You know, he's a rotational guy. He's not a guy that you're expecting to or demanding or thinking he's going to fill double digit sacks for you. But he can certainly come in and be productive. And given how much money the Bears have left, I think there's somewhere, I don't know, around 11 or 12 million dollars in cap space to sign free agents and take care of their rookies and do whatever they need to do. You can work out a number that's going to fit with what you, Davion Clowney wants to do. And he still very much so wants to play. I also, that is a guy that the Bear should talk to. Yes.

[Dan Bernstein]

I think he's a decent fit for a Dennis Allen defense too.

[Matt Abeticola]

100%.

[Dan Bernstein]

He is because he's versatile and part of his ability is lining him up at different spots is saying that he's obviously can play 4, 3 edge and can line up, you know, in between the tackle, the tight end, however they want to do that,

[Matt Abeticola]

anywhere he wants. If you don't believe me, just ask Jadavian Clowney. He'll tell you he can do anything.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, he's still athletic. You don't have to play him at the same spot every time. Long, strong and I think gives at the very minimum, depending on the money. A rotational weapon.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yes, that's all, that's all you need, rotational weapon. Because if you look at the, the depth chart right now, you look at the roster and I were to say to you, Dan, look at the Bears current roster. Who do they have that you are confident can get after the quarterback? For me it's two names and that's it.

[Dan Bernstein]

Confident, yes. That he can get after the quarterback. Confident Montez Sweat is and he better be for being paid to do just that.

[Matt Abeticola]

That's a no brainer.

[Dan Bernstein]

And I can't say Odangbo.

[Matt Abeticola]

No.

[Dan Bernstein]

I can't definitely say Booker.

[Matt Abeticola]

Okay. I would say Booker.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay.

[Matt Abeticola]

I would say that I saw enough of his development over the years he got healthy that he and Montez Sweat are two guys that I'm confident can get at the quarterback. You need more, you need more guys and I'm just not confident right now of the rest of the guys on the roster. And if you look at the depth chart, I think, I think they even have Daniel Hardy as a backup defensive end spot.

[Dan Bernstein]

He's a special teams guy.

[Matt Abeticola]

He's a special teams guy and I think more, I think more of a linebacker than I do a guy that can line up and get after the quarterback. They need to add another piece to it and I know that they're going to coach these guys up and they're going to get better Shemar Turner, get him back to be healthy and they're going to coach him up and they're going to coach up Dio Dangbo and he'll be better because they're going to coach him better. You need to add a rotational piece and I think Clowney is that perfect fit financially and ability wise.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's a good name and it seems like the whatever. As long as it's four down linemen and you can call every. It's all, all the stuff behind four three. There are no four threes and I

[Matt Abeticola]

mean it's very similar we talk about in baseball and off The Ivy, our daily Cubs podcast about starting pitchers and who's your one year, two or three. It's just who's the next guy getting the Next, you know, 12 outs that

[Dan Bernstein]

we need, how are you rushing the passer and however you want to do it. But the reason I'm saying that, well, you used to be 3, 4 or 4. 3. Linebackers don't really define defenses anymore because most 4 threes are 4, 2, 5. They just are because the. That whatever you call that nickel, unless you call the nickel a weak side backer or excuse me, a strong sidebacker, however you want to do that. So it's. I'm not bothered by that. But the idea of a relatively versatile front, that isn't. And Dennis Allen stuff, it isn't pure one gap, two gap. There are going to be times where you got to grab a guy and throw him out of the way depending on how things shift and where you think the weak spots are. Also, I think Clowney could still be good in some of the stunting stuff. You know, if you're, if you're gonna twist him.

[Matt Abeticola]

And Booker was long and athletic and he's quick. He can do that.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, I wouldn't mind that. That's part of versatility is being able to play those games up front.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah. And if that's something that Austin Booker can can see firsthand, a guy do with more of a similar body style than they know that he has than Montana sweat and you know, if there's anything he can learn about that craft, I think that would would be very helpful as well too. But I think he's a perfect name financially and ability wise to kind of add to that rotation of where Dennis Allen and the Bears defense is at right now. The New York Giants apparently are going to sign defensive tackle Shelby Harris and they have been associated a lot with former Lions defensive tackle D.J. reader. So if they're off Reader and looking at Shelby Harris, Reader also another interesting name for the Bears on the defensive line, but he's a guy at 31, will be 32 July 2nd. Just coming off a two year, $25

[Dan Bernstein]

million deal for a reason.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah, I just don't see the Bears having the kind of money that he might get in a one year deal even this year.

[Dan Bernstein]

I mean, Calais Campbell is still out there.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yes, he is.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah. 39.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah, we're good. We're good on him. We're going to stick with Davion Clowney.

[Dan Bernstein]

Let me give you what was said about DJ Reader here. He was paired with the Giants as defensive tackle.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah. And I think that that's where it was headed until the Shelby Harris news came out.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, well, he said the Giants added Shelby Harris, but bringing in another veteran in Reader would be a major help.

[Matt Abeticola]

Oh, I don't know about that.

[Dan Bernstein]

I don't either. But he can still bring solid play and some disruptive pass. Rushing.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah. I just think financially and, and I want more. I want a guy that's on the edge, that's going to get after the quarterback in passing situations. More so than what, DJ Reader? Very, very. You know, a good player would be a great addition to the Bears defensive line, but again, they're very, very limited in money. I think we're, we're looking at 10 or 11 million dollars. So you're gonna have to be very smart with this financially.

[Dan Bernstein]

The other.

[Matt Abeticola]

Unless there's other things you can do around, you know, other current contracts, whatever.

[Dan Bernstein]

But let me just give you also the. I don't know if this name does anything for you. Daquan Jones

[Matt Abeticola]

doesn't do a whole ton.

[Dan Bernstein]

No. Okay. Because that was just another name that we saw who he was in what, Buffalo, I believe, look. Yeah. So I didn't know much of what to make of that choice, but Daquan Jones is a. He's played inside and outside, has he not? I don't know much about him. I'm not going to pretend. I just, I saw the name somewhere and I thought, well, I, I know the name. I could make up a really strong opinion about him. But you would know. I'm. I'm making it up.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

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[Matt Abeticola]

All right. I have a. I have a. I have a conversation that I need you to help me work through.

[Dan Bernstein]

All right.

[Matt Abeticola]

With the. The biggest story right now in the offseason, of course, is the Mike Vrabel, the Diana Rossini thing going on or the lack of. Of conversation about it. But we certainly have been talking about

[Dan Bernstein]

it,

[Matt Abeticola]

and I was kind of thinking about that and thinking about my guy, Diego Pavia. So help me walk through this conversation or this. This thought. Thought process about this. Diego Pavia is probably. He's most likely. He's not going to be very successful in the NFL. Like, I understand that. And all I need him to do is get one snap in a regular season game, and I'm good. The. The measurables about Diego Pavi are going to be a huge obstacle in him being successful. His height is his arm strength, the throws he can't make. I get all that. The character stuff. And the entourage around him, mainly his brothers, have also been and will be a big obstacle and hindrance into having any success in the NFL. There have been guys his size and smaller that have had more success. So there have been. There has been.

[Dan Bernstein]

No. I mean, not unless there's a special case of. Who are you counting? Like Jeff Garcia?

[Matt Abeticola]

Well, the only guy he's taller. The only guy that I. That I found that had success, it was younger, was the name Eddie LeBaron. I know.

[Dan Bernstein]

And he was on the. The before the Dallas Cowboys. Right?

[Matt Abeticola]

The Texas.

[Dan Bernstein]

The Texas Texans. Don't give me Eddie freaking LeBaron. Maddie.

[Matt Abeticola]

I want to give you. He's five, seven.

[Dan Bernstein]

I. I think he's. I think he's dead, but I'm sure he's dead. I'm not sure.

[Matt Abeticola]

I'm sure he is.

[Dan Bernstein]

Maybe he's undead.

[Matt Abeticola]

No.

[Dan Bernstein]

Maybe a tiny little. Anyway, just trying to jump up.

[Matt Abeticola]

There's a name. There's a name that was smaller that found great success. Great success in the NFL.

[Dan Bernstein]

All right. I thought you were gonna go Doug Flutie, but no. Yeah, Eddie LeBaron. Eddie LeBaron died in April of 2015.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah, it wasn't Fluty 510.

[Dan Bernstein]

I think so.

[Matt Abeticola]

Okay, so he's taller, so there you go. Anywho, that's not why he called, so. Yeah, he has a lot stacked against him. Diego Pavia. And a lot of what I keep hearing, too, and reading about Diego Pavia is the character. Character issues, like story, came out not too long ago, about three weeks before the draft, so early April. He was seen at a strip club in New Mexico in Albuquerque. I'm sure with his brothers and entourage and whatnot, not doing anything wrong, not doing anything illegal. You know, it's what you like it great if you don't find, you know, I think it's a waste of time and money. But why does going to a strip club, a young guy like that bring into all these questions about his character? Okay. He's, he's not doing anything wrong by doing that. He's not like in some relationship and he's, you know, banging a stripper on stage, you know, and he's married with kids at home. If Diego Pavia Dan was, I don't know, let's say, let's say he was 64 and 235 and still had the same two brothers, still had the same defiant attitude, made poor decisions about talking about Fernando Mendoza, it would matter.

[Dan Bernstein]

But there'd be a lot more excuses for it.

[Matt Abeticola]

Correct.

[Dan Bernstein]

It would, it would definitely matter. It wouldn't be a zero, but there would be all kinds of more intense efforts to counterbalance this with. Oh, well, he was, he was. I also think there would be a lot more investment in him not being, staying away from his brothers. I think if he were that size, I think there would have been enough of an increase of the stakes earlier that the behavior would have changed earlier or he would have been written off as a lost cause earlier. The only, the only reason is because of the, the sort of late arrival of him nationally and his play. Because it takes longer for guys to find the right school and find the right fit.

[Matt Abeticola]

And he finds, he finds a great fitting in Vanderbilt and he has, I mean, they have a 10 win season and he puts up ridiculous numbers in the SEC.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yes.

[Matt Abeticola]

So, yeah, it wouldn't be a zero, but like on a one to 10 it would be very low. Where now you think, you know, any, anything like this, like going to a strip club is like an eight is a nine. Oh, you know what I mean? Yeah. He's got these measurables that, that are stacked against him. But, but his character too. He was at a strip club and he was throwing dollar bills out at a strip club. Now just kind of comparing that and you know, again, help me walk, walk through this, talk through this. Mike Vrabel. What Mike Vrabel has done from a character standpoint, considerably worse than anything Diego Pavia has done

[Dan Bernstein]

pending more of what we know. Yeah, allegedly. And I would also like to find out more about. Look, is this true love on his part? Is he head over heels? Because I'm not, you know, if he's, if he's in love, that's one thing. But if he looked at this as an opportunity to have an inside way of fixing national narratives through pillow whispers, and it was motivated through, for. For selfish reasons beyond just the affairs of the heart, then I think that that would draw extra scrutiny. But we don't know, right?

[Matt Abeticola]

We don't know. But Mike Vrabel also won three Super Bowls as a player. He found playoff success as the Titans head coach, loses that job, takes the Patriots to a Super bowl in his first year as their head coach. Robert Kraft is the owner, one of the more influential owners of the NFL. Obviously, you know, the, the six super bowl rings he's had with Bill Belichick and Tom Brady, the hypocrisy within it, and we're all part of it as fans, too, the willingness to kind of more quickly push this story aside, not even from like an ESPN or NFL standpoint, but from fans, from players, people who love the NFL. It's because Mike Vrabel's had great success.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah. Coaches.

[Matt Abeticola]

As a player and a coach, I.

[Dan Bernstein]

Look, I understand the picture you're trying to paint here. I think it's tough to do comparing a player to a coach, let alone like an end of roster, undrafted dude. Coaches aren't going anywhere. For the most part. They're looked at, what if this, what

[Matt Abeticola]

if this wasn't a. What if it wasn't like Rabel, but it was a first year head coach of the Patriots and they didn't go to the Super Bowl?

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, that would be a little different. Like he's. He's got that, that, that's. I think you've nailed. The fascinating aspect of Vrabel is the amount of capital they have to burn on him if they really want to go to the mattresses for Vrabel, which. Which they're apparently doing that. See, to me, that's a developing part of the story. Robert Kraft tried to bury the story before it came out. Like we are. We are talking about, if not NFL royalty, somebody from that franchise with that ownership, that history with the franchise. The fact that it's not a neutral example of, you know, Joe, coach of

[Matt Abeticola]

the Jacksonville Jackson Panthers.

[Dan Bernstein]

Sure. You know, whoever it might be, this is the, this is not just the Patriots head coach, but a made man, a made NFL guy. So it's a pretty extreme example if the, if the larger point is we've got a comically sliding scale when it comes to the outrage police. Yes, that's.

[Matt Abeticola]

That are.

[Dan Bernstein]

There's no. That's. I'm not going to take much convincing, if that's your point. That.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

This idea of what's okay, what's not okay. Look, it's perfectly legal to go to a strip club.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yes.

[Dan Bernstein]

And, you know, what does it say about the judgment of somebody who's already been told, keep your nose clean. You. You're not really all that good enough at football to make anything around the edges a negative. And he's been told that. And he still doesn't. He still doesn't care. It still doesn't care. Right. He may just. He may just be an idiot. He could.

[Matt Abeticola]

He very well could be just an idiot. And, and you know, and the whole fact that he is maybe not very bright and doesn't really think through situations, it makes me wonder. Like, I would love to talk to him and say, hey, dude, how much does this mean to you? Like, how, how much does being a 5, 7 and 3/4 tall quarterback, how much does it mean to you to get in an NFL game and wear an NFL uniform and be an NFL quarterback? Like, what, what does it truly mean to you? Like, you look at a guy like Mendoza and you, you could, you don't even have to ask him, what does it mean to him to be an NFL quarterback? And I would love to ask Diego Pavia, what is it? What does it truly mean to you, dude? Like, does it really mean everything you verbalize? It does. Because if it does, then show. Show me in different actions. Show me in better decisions.

[Dan Bernstein]

Hey, man, I gotta tell you, I've been around some dudes and this is. I'm not gonna name the player. I mean, I can't. I don't think anybody knows who he is, but this just a. Just a personal story. And there's a basketball player, one of the, one of the best basketball players I've, I've, I've seen ever. In the minors was a guy named Tony Harris. Okay. Tony went to like six different colleges before. It was cool. And Tony was, Tony was a, was, was rough around the edges and kept some colorful company. I've been out drinking with him. I've seen it. I've. I've seen it up close and personal. He was an amazing basketball player. Scored 100 points in a game in the Philippine League and had like, he, he became a movie star there and became like an action hero and all that. Nicknamed the Hurricane. I don't know where he is now.

[Matt Abeticola]

Like a real movie star.

[Dan Bernstein]

Like movie star.

[Matt Abeticola]

Like serial. Okay.

[Dan Bernstein]

Movies. Oh, yeah, no, he was, he was a. He was bigger than sports in the Philippines.

[Matt Abeticola]

Okay?

[Dan Bernstein]

The Lakers told him one year, hey, man, we're bringing you in. And this was in the mid-90s. It's like 94, I think. So look. Look who's on that roster. And the Lakers, like, hey, we. We. We know what you can do. And they. And he told me this. They said, we just want you to. To carry yourself a little more. A little less colorfully, a little less street. And he said. He goes, they. They wanted me. They didn't want me to be as thuggish as I am. And that's a loaded word now, especially. It wasn't then. It is now, asking somebody to, you know, act like something he's not or be something he's not. And he told them no. He's like, I am who I am. This is. This is. This is who I am. And these are my friends. And I was like, God, really? Like.

[Matt Abeticola]

Like the show, man. Like, you have a chance to be not only at the show, but Laker.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah. And I remember we were sitting. God, where were we? Lacrosse. Wisconsin. Sitting there courtside in an arena that seats 6,000 people. I'm like, really, Tony? He's like, yeah, I'm not gonna. I don't change for anybody.

[Matt Abeticola]

Oh, man.

[Dan Bernstein]

I was like, okay.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah. And I. You know, maybe. Maybe Pavia is the same way. But it's like, I. I really would just like to know. In your brain, dude, because you got one. I know you do. What. What does it truly mean to you to have a chance to play in the NFL? I mean, is it really everything you really want? If it is, what the fuck, you know? And it's. It's not even like. It's not like we're talking about some. You know, about, like, Brendan Sorsby and some gambling addiction.

[Dan Bernstein]

But it isn't. It isn't really that bad. That's the thing. So what. I mean, tell. Tell your brothers, get away from me

[Matt Abeticola]

for a while or knock it off.

[Dan Bernstein]

Don't come to games. And you're not just out of the game.

[Matt Abeticola]

You're hurting all of us. Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

Don't get arrested at games.

[Matt Abeticola]

Right?

[Dan Bernstein]

It's like Billy Carter at this point. You know?

[Matt Abeticola]

It's not. It's like I said, it's not a gambling addiction. Like, did you see Brendan Sorsby that. They said it's over 10,000. Yeah. Wagers he's made.

[Dan Bernstein]

Done. Done. So.

[Matt Abeticola]

No, it's like. It's not like that. It's not like, you know, oh, I have an alcohol issue. I have a drug issue. Like just stop being a penis and stop letting the guys around you be penises. Don't, don't enable that if it really means that much to you. But yeah, it's interesting. Yeah. So we're glad we talked through it because the point you made about how much capital Robert Kraft and the Patriots are willing to burn, but it's every, the whole league. Yeah, I know, you're right.

[Dan Bernstein]

And everybody's willing to die on this

[Matt Abeticola]

hill for Mike Vrabel. Like, dude, yeah, I get it. Like you, you took a team to the super bowl last year. It's not like he's got six championship rings on his hands from being a coach. Yeah, he has three of as a player. And you don't have Tom Brady there. He's not wearing those rings. Sorry.

[Dan Bernstein]

Made guy. Made guy. And fear, and fear of what else is out there. But I think it's too late.

[Matt Abeticola]

That's. That's what it is that we've talked about this too.

[Dan Bernstein]

I think it's too late for that now.

[Matt Abeticola]

They're, they're not going to, to like open up this case really wide because of fear of what's out there. That's why it's so hush hush.

[Dan Bernstein]

But it's out of their control now. There's, there's some things out there and there, there's going to be a there stones to be overturned here and looked underneath and say, well, what happened here and what happened.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah, and the NFL is going to use certain marking points on this calendar to distract from, from this. Like, you better believe it. The schedule release. You better believe that this story about NFL referees that they've assigned referee crews for games coming up without having to train or use replacement referees, which means they feel confident they'll have a new CBA in place before May 31st comes around. So they've started signing. Like, do you think that would be a story put out there now? When's the last time, you remember in April a story of the NFL saying, oh, we began assigning referees to games coming up? Yeah, I get it. Because there's this whole negotiating. But there's still a month ago. They're not putting that story out a month in advance about assigning referee crews.

[Dan Bernstein]

It also doesn't help their bargaining position if this thing isn't done yet. Like, I wouldn't announce that at all. Right. I would say we are putting out the, the, our replacement officials like that. That's the first thing I would do. No matter what's actually going on, what you put out there publicly is get ready for these people to call these games.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah, that's a great point.

[Dan Bernstein]

And we're fine with it.

[Matt Abeticola]

But they're putting that. But they put that out there. We've begun sign assigning referee crews to these games without using replacement officials.

[Dan Bernstein]

All right.

[Matt Abeticola]

Confident we're going to get this done?

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Abeticola]

Over here. Don't look over here. Look at this story. Oh, the schedule release is coming out.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, they've got enough of us still concerned about what else we don't know. The problem is the own, the example isn't being set by the actual businesses. I mean, the business that employed her don't really appear all that interested in finding anything out. That's what's really disappointing is that the people that do provide the information and that are league partners and do have published journalistic standards don't really seem to care. Although the athletic sense.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah, the main one is ESPN and they're not going to care. They have the super bowl coming up in February.

[Dan Bernstein]

The athletic says that they're doing their own investigation that is not going to be impeded or negated by her resignation, that they're still going to do this. Okay, let's, let's see how much, how much they want to spend and the resources that they want to invest in really finding this out, because there are a lot of people who work there that are keeping an eye on that, too. If your team isn't using your CRM, it isn't working. Pipedrive is a simple CRM. It's easy to use so you can focus on closing. Get 30 days [e-mail] audio all right,

[Matt Abeticola]

a couple of final notes. I don't, I don't know if we've mentioned this on forward progress yet, but. And I can't remember us talking about it, but did we talk about Andrew Billings signing with the Arizona Cardinals?

[Dan Bernstein]

I, I think we mentioned it in passing, but didn't talk about it like it was a, like a, some kind of huge deal because there was such an expectation on our part that they were going to try to upgrade there.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah. So anyway, we haven't mentioned that. I, I feel bad to, to Andrew. I know he listens regularly. Congratulations, Big Bill. Man, that deal with the Cardinals, I'll be watching for sure.

[Dan Bernstein]

That's a good uniform for him. Get a jersey. That's a. I think that's a good look.

[Matt Abeticola]

I wonder, I wonder how he'll look.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, it's also. Do you think that they'll ask him to carry the same weight he was carrying here?

[Matt Abeticola]

I don't think so. I think he's going to slim down a little bit.

[Dan Bernstein]

My Andrew Billings theory here was, hey,

[Matt Abeticola]

I'm not going to say that he's going to be slim. I didn't say, no, he's going to slim down.

[Dan Bernstein]

Not mistaking that. But my theory here was that they thought, hey, he's never going to be an ideal fit. So rather than keep trying to get him smaller and quicker, let's just double down with what he can do and just, you know, feed him during games if we have to and just, just be enormous. And ideally they want somebody who can have that sort of effect while also being having a larger radius of effectiveness on the field rather than just somebody coming to him.

[Matt Abeticola]

They go in the locker room at halftime and there's like a 12 foot long banquet table full of a Thanksgiving dinner.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah. No, I was just gonna say it's a Gatorade bottle.

[Matt Abeticola]

No. The players are all excited. Like, oh my God. No, no, no, no. You guys, this way. We're for our meeting and our team adjustments. That's Andrew. There you go, Andrew.

[Dan Bernstein]

I've added or like the, the, the water boys and girls run out with the Gatorade bottle and his is full

[Matt Abeticola]

of hollandaise sauce or gravy.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yes. Yeah.

[Matt Abeticola]

And one final note. I know you wanted to get, get to the Pittsburgh Steelers.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yes.

[Matt Abeticola]

And so what's going on there? And rock. Because I, I thought he said he would have a decision on his future before the draft.

[Dan Bernstein]

Now, the draft happened, okay. Art Rooney. Art. The second he said publicly that they thought that they would know the final call whether Aaron Rodgers would want to play for the Steelers before the draft. So they didn't find that out because Aaron was busy and apparently he just told NFL Network. Rooney did. That they're communicating with him and the decision is coming soon. We've been in contact on a regular basis. Even though I thought we'd have concluded by now, I think we will come to a conclusion here in the next few weeks. So the reason why they slapped that unrestricted free agent tender on him.

[Matt Abeticola]

Okay.

[Dan Bernstein]

Because that ensures that they'll get a comp pick if Roger signs with another team. Even though they don't think he's going to sign with another team. They just said you never know. We had to protect it if needed. It's not a big deal.

[Matt Abeticola]

Right.

[Dan Bernstein]

They just want to know if he's coming back. Now I realized I want him to come back. I want to have him to kick around a little while longer.

[Matt Abeticola]

Oh, okay, Okay.

[Dan Bernstein]

I didn't think the. If this is how he goes out, it wasn't spectacular enough for me.

[Matt Abeticola]

So, missing the playoffs or. No, no, making. They made the playoffs. They knocked the Ravens out of the playoffs. So. Yeah, that's not. That's not a good. No, no, no.

[Dan Bernstein]

We need. We need something funnier. It's gotta. It has to end sadly and more entertainingly for me, because that's what matters.

[Matt Abeticola]

I don't want it to end with an injury. I think some people would think that's a good way to end it with an injury. I don't want that. I want him to play every snap and be terrible.

[Dan Bernstein]

Is it a funny injury?

[Matt Abeticola]

Like what? Like ass cramps. Like ass cramps, for example, or exploding taint syndrome.

[Dan Bernstein]

Oh, no, I don't wish. Don't say that around a doctor.

[Matt Abeticola]

You wouldn't wish that on Aaron Rodgers.

[Dan Bernstein]

No, you don't wish exploding. No. If you take Jardians and you have exploding taint syndrome and fatal taint swelling. No. And I'm telling you, every time you mention that around a doctor, everyone, no matter what their specialty, no matter who they are, if you try to make fun of the Jardian's warning against fatal taint swelling, you know, the. Any doctor within. Within half a mile will come running up to you and be like, well, you know, you really shouldn't make fun of that because that's very, very serious. That could lead to Fournier's gangrene. I need. Did something happen in medical school? Seriously, did. They did. Was there a special day in medical school where they told every doctor, like, hey, you know, make sure people don't make fun of fatal taint swelling.

[Matt Abeticola]

Maybe there's a video they all have to watch.

[Dan Bernstein]

I don't know. Or maybe, like, the comedy police show up. I know doctors are not generally funny people. This is. This is. Unless they wear cowboy hats or socks hats. But doctors are not known. Like, if you go to. Like, you'll watch all the doctors have, you know, go into somebody's roast and really, you know, they're cutting it up out there without their little scalpels. I know they're not funny people, but. But I don't care how many years you went to medical school. I don't care how decorated you are. There's something wrong with you if you can't be entertained by the concept of dying from a swollen taint.

[Matt Abeticola]

Well, I need to go see the eye doctor soon. Yes, I'll bring up the swollen taint syndrome.

[Dan Bernstein]

It doesn't count. You're talking about an optometrist. Yes.

[Matt Abeticola]

But you said any doctor, though.

[Dan Bernstein]

No. That they're not doctors. Ophthalmologist. Yes.

[Matt Abeticola]

All right, I'll go to an ophthalmologist.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yes. If you're going to an actual md.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yes, I need to get my. Yes, I need to get. Not.

[Dan Bernstein]

Not anything else. Not an osteopath, not a chiropractor, not a dentist. I. I mean a. Not a vet. An MD and mention. Hey, you know, I hear you take Jardians, your taint swells up and you die.

[Matt Abeticola]

See what they say. I thought about getting my. My chiropractor certificate next weekend. Thought about doing that.

[Dan Bernstein]

Can you do it online? Can't you become a chiropractor online?

[Matt Abeticola]

I think you should be able to.

[Dan Bernstein]

I think so.

[Matt Abeticola]

All right, I'm going to look into that.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah. So anybody? Let's. This is the way I would define it. Anybody who. If there's an emergency on an airplane and somebody stands up and screams, is anyone here a doctor? Like, somebody's having a heart attack or somebody's having a stroke or something emergent. Anybody. Anybody who would reasonably be able to answer that call.

[Matt Abeticola]

That person is afraid of Exploding Taint Syndrome.

[Dan Bernstein]

That. Whoever that person is, somewhere in their training, they were instructed to don't let people make fun of Exploding Taint Syndrome, even though it's hilarious. So maybe they are the comedy police.

[Matt Abeticola]

I know. I just think there's a video they

[Dan Bernstein]

have to watch that just ruins them for life.

[Matt Abeticola]

And it ruins them for life having to actually see it happen. Yes.

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, that's why Evan Fournier was nicknamed Never Google, because I've made that mistake.

[Matt Abeticola]

I never have.

[Dan Bernstein]

Don't.

[Matt Abeticola]

I'm not going to. What is it?

[Dan Bernstein]

Fournier's gangrene.

[Matt Abeticola]

Oh, no, I'm good.

[Dan Bernstein]

Oh, no, no.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

No, no, no. That'll ruin your day. Maybe that's what it is. Maybe you nailed it.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah. I think there's a video they make them watch on, like, pretty bad of, like, doctor school.

[Dan Bernstein]

And.

[Matt Abeticola]

And then it's. They're ruined for life. Maybe it's like day 11, they tell them, hey, day 12, you're going to watch the Exploding Taint Syndrome video. So if you want to start doing, like, eyes or teeth or, like, become a chiropractor, just go ahead and leave now. Don't come back tomorrow. And so now those people, they leave and they go do other things.

[Dan Bernstein]

That's it. They find other ways. Yep. To. To sublimate their medical desires.

[Matt Abeticola]

Professor is in front of the class. He's like, oh, I see 35 of you. 50 have returned. Well, here we go.

[Dan Bernstein]

And then afterward, three come back.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yes.

[Dan Bernstein]

Is this the kind of thing I'm gonna see?

[Matt Abeticola]

They turn the lights on, they see who's still there.

[Dan Bernstein]

That's what it is. Yells as bail all right. It's possible.

[Matt Abeticola]

Who remains?

[Dan Bernstein]

I'm, I'm, I'm glad that that is a. A plausible theory of what's going on here. Thank you for it. And that that's going to do it. For Forward Progress, a Chicago Bears and NFL podcast here on 312Sports. Forward progress is stopped.

[Matt Abeticola]

Forward progress. Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312 Sports.

[Dan Bernstein]

Everybody talked about it since I first moved to Oregon. The big one. The earthquake that trashed the whole west coast. Total destruction. Officially calling it the largest natural disaster in American history. It just. I didn't know what would help me next.

[Matt Abeticola]

So I took it all.

[Dan Bernstein]

Even the gun.

[Matt Abeticola]

It was time.

[Dan Bernstein]

Cello American Afterlife, presented by Pair of Thieves. The number one fiction and drama podcast in America. Listen wherever you get your favorite podcasts available now. A support group for barely functioning adults.

[Matt Abeticola]

It's the Dave and Mahoney Show.

[Dan Bernstein]

You know, I dated a phone sex operator. Did she know that you were dating? Dating? They would have to go into, like, a call center, cubicles and stuff like that. Imagine having phone sex with some lonely guy while you're sitting in a cubicle.

[Matt Abeticola]

Do you think that it would make you more competitive? Yeah, I got one.

[Dan Bernstein]

He's done. Oh, my gosh.

[Matt Abeticola]

Grab the Dave and Mahoney podcast now on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify and@david mahoney.com.