← Forward Progress - A Chicago Bears Podcast
Forward Progress - A Chicago Bears Podcast
Is Ben Johnson out for REVENGE or just another WIN?
00:41:04
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- [00:01]
A
I mean, if you're a Bears fan, you're thinking forward Progress. Come on. Forward Progress, a Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abaticola on 312 Sports.
- [00:22]
B
We are awarding you Forward Progress, a Chicago Bears podcast here on 312 Sports. The 11 and 5 Bears head into week 18 with a chance for a little bit of payback. And I don't know how much it means to Ben Johnson to do that, sort of the question I have in my head is, how salty is he? How petty in a good way is Ben Johnson? I think we might learn that a little bit based on where his foot is on the accelerator this week. And I'm not saying good or bad. I just think we're going to, we're going to learn whether or not he's, he's got it in him to make a little bit of a statement when he can against his former employer.
- [01:18]
A
What would your, what would your guess be? Because I, I have my opinion on it.
- [01:22]
B
My guess would be, and I guess this is a cop out, and you can call it that if you want. I think he absolutely has it in his heart, but his mind, his head knows better. And he has such discipline that even though I think he would love to avenge this particular loss, in totality, he would stop short of anything that, that would irresponsibly expose his players to injury.
- [02:03]
A
Okay, well, I agree with that, but I think you've answered the question because in his heart you said that he wants revenge, and I do believe that's true. So in his discipline nature, it's not going to come out verbally. And I don't think he's going to give some kind of message to the team beforehand that, hey, we need to, I want this win. After they booed him and the way they treated him in Detroit going back for the first time as the Bears head coach, which was completely ridiculous and stupid. I think he wants it, but he's not going to be that rah rah guy that says we need to go out and win this game to avenge that loss, to avenge your coach. But he 100% wants to have a victory to shove it up their asses. And I think given the opportunity without endangering a player, he's going to do everything within his power to make that happen.
- [02:56]
B
Okay, let me ask you this.
- [02:58]
A
This is a dude who took his shirt off in the locker room to celebrate so Chicago fans could get hot dogs. You think he doesn't want to put 60 on these motherfuckers? He is going to do everything possible.
- [03:09]
B
Okay. Let's envision a world in which there is a way to do it more saucily or incrementally and a way to make the point without having to put 60 on them. And it would be play design. It would be picking a spot for a play where he's known as that guy. And whether it is something like Stumblebum or any other of the named plays that he's had. Is he putting something in? Not saying he's going to spring it, but I promise you it's being practiced right now.
- [04:01]
A
Yeah. Because given the situation of the season and where, you know, the Lions being eliminated, you could really shove it. You could really. You could really stick it to your old team from a defensive standpoint. Like, if he was a defensive guy, you could do that. Go all out and go for the shutout. That would be the ultimate embarrassment for this team. Now, the Bears don't have that defense. He's not a defensive guy, so that's not a possibility. I think what you. What you said is you nailed it. And I 100% believe and agree that there is a play that is going to be, if executed and successful, is going to be the highlight for the NFL Sunday.
- [04:39]
B
If they get the look.
- [04:40]
A
Yes.
- [04:41]
B
And I can't for the life of me. And I love this. I don't. I don't know that I've been in a situation before where I am. And I'm not basing. I'm not reporting this, but I promise you that somewhere it's so in this week. He's got a cookie in there. He's got a little Christmas cookie, a little New Year's thing in there. I think he's got enough respect and he is close enough friends with Dan Campbell that he doesn't want to embarrass Dan Campbell directly. I don't think it's. I don't think it's necessarily personal, but I just. Even from. Even from a snarky, cheeky football perspective, I just. I'd love to know what it's going to be. Is it. You know, we've seen Cole Comet throw the ball. You know, what else is on our list here of what could be in the bag somewhere? We've seen flea flicker. We've seen all sorts of formational stuff that he's tried. You know, we haven't seen that. That bully formation, the lizard, the reptile that he borrowed from Greg Roman. We haven't seen that again. But I'm just wondering what would be something that would make a statement to the Lions organizationally or to their fans, what would be something that. That shows that little. That little wink, that.
- [06:12]
A
Gotcha. Yeah, no, I. Again, I think you're. I think you're spot on with it. That.
- [06:17]
B
That.
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A
That there is. There's something there that he. He has installed, and I just. I can't wait to see what it's going to be again, given.
- [06:25]
B
Ooh, ooh, ooh.
- [06:26]
A
But, you know, here's the thing, though.
- [06:27]
B
And it's not right.
- [06:29]
A
Oh, yeah, that's a possibility. If there's a. If there's a certain, you know, deep in the red zone situation. Possibility there.
- [06:35]
B
Talked about him as an athlete, and.
- [06:38]
A
We know that they've been. There was at one point where we saw defensive line, offensive lineman getting receiving catches. Correct.
- [06:44]
B
Well, he. Last year was Sewell.
- [06:47]
A
Yeah, last year it was Sewell, but I think even earlier in this year, they were throwing passes to offensive linemen, I think during practice or. Yeah, at some point.
- [06:56]
B
Yes, all of them, because he wanted to see who had good hands.
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A
But.
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B
And they've had all kinds of active. I mean, shoot, Daniel Hardy was a blocker last week, so it shouldn't surprise us at all if some people are eligible or people have the opportunity. He's been dropping all kinds of breadcrumbs or that for all these guys, especially the mad scientists. It's not. If. It's not if they have it ready to go, they're all alone. It's just when.
- [07:23]
A
I don't know, when you said earlier, too, that he's not taking it personal. How could you not?
- [07:29]
B
Well, I mean, from Campbell himself. I don't think there's bad blood between the two of you.
- [07:33]
A
Oh, no, I don't think there's bad blood at all. But there's no way he's not taking this personal. I mean, he got booed and players participated and were active in making sure the crowd was booing. And then they go and they put 52 points on him. That's like, hey, yeah, I know you were the great offensive mind. You were the great play caller for this team. And, you know, you were the hottest commodity on the coaching. You know, on the coaching interviews. And here was. Here's what we did without you. We put 52 points on you. Without you. That's what we did. So there's no shot. I mean, he's a human being. There's no shot. Again, it's a guy who took his shirt off in the locker room to celebrate a win. So he's definitely taking it personal. But I do agree with you because he is very disciplined and he's that Steady Eddie guy. He's not going to do anything to jeopardize his players or the game plan or what they want to be successful in, for sure.
- [08:27]
B
I wonder what the conversations are like with Dennis Allen, who, by the way, was the subject of an interesting point that I think you made in DBU about the way that the coordinator press conferences are scheduled and what it allows them to do and avoiding accountability for the week before. This is really more in. In large part more of a Dennis Allen opportunity than it is Ben Johnson. Don't let him get 52 on you. They had. They had double digits in every quarter.
- [08:57]
A
Yeah. Every quarter they went 14, 14, 10, 14.
- [09:00]
B
And usually these games, usually blowouts.
- [09:04]
A
Yeah.
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B
You lose the fourth quarter because the game's over that way, especially in. With the teams as evenly matched as they are in the NFL. Like an NFL blowout. You've already called off the dogs in the fourth.
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A
Right.
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B
So to even pummel them there, to win every. To do it like that is. Is pretty complete.
- [09:24]
A
Yeah. And for the Lions game, Dan, they rushed for 177 yards. Jared Goff threw for 334. He was 23 of 28. Average of 11.95 touchdowns. He had a rating of 156. Wasn't. Was barely pressured, zero sacks. Where Caleb Williams, he was sacked four times. And it was interesting, too, to look at the offense for the Bears, too, in that game and how different it is today. Colson Loveland had one catch on two targets. Or was it the other way around? I think maybe. Maybe it was Luther Burden. Let me see here. Let me just pull it up real quick.
- [10:01]
B
I have it right.
- [10:02]
A
Right here. Yeah. Colson Loveland had zero catches on one target. Luther Burden had two targets and one catch for five yards. And just to see the difference of where that is now for this team and for the progression of Loveland and a Burden. And remember early in the season, Ben Johnson was talking about how the tight ends weren't even out there to catch balls. He specifically said they weren't even part of the passing plan. They were just there to be extra blockers.
- [10:31]
B
Well, he didn't say it quite so dismissively.
- [10:34]
A
Not dismissively, no. He made that clear, though. It was that.
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B
Right. But he pumped them up by saying they're playing a very important role in what we're doing, just not catching the.
- [10:41]
A
Ball, which is, you know, very important to what they're doing now.
- [10:45]
B
Sure, maybe. And like I say, A lot of his stuff is is long game. A lot of his stuff is what am I setting up, what am I putting on tape? And I haven't gone back and watched the film of the first meeting between these teams, but they're clearly both different teams that have gone in opposite directions since that week two outcome.
- [11:08]
A
Oh yeah, for sure, for sure. Absolutely.
- [11:10]
C
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- [11:26]
B
Alan we're at the time of year two where we're beginning now that the, the first round of like the in season coaching firings has happened and we're reading a lot of the coverage of say the Giants are, are saying that, you know, Mike Kafka is going to interview for the, you know, the interim job that he holds now. He'll, he'll get a chance and we're starting to see these other names. Are the Falcons going to make a move? Are the Browns going to make a move? It's pretty obvious that the Cowboys are getting rid of Matt Eberflus with Jerry Jones admitting publicly that that was a mistake. The one and dones. The speculation now and reasonably so, is that, you know, Pete Carroll tried to do the comeback thing and maybe this it's just not happening for him. Aaron Glenn, the Jets have gotten worse. There aren't really any signs that that's going to get any better. There's always the possibility of one and dones there. I'm not hearing Dennis Allen's name. I have not heard a at least in the head coaching level round. It's not time yet. It's not time for Declan Doyle. We haven't had the rehabilitation yet. I don't think the Bears defense has performed quite well enough despite leading the league in turnovers. Everybody or takeaways, everybody knows that that turnover margin is if anything making the defense look better than it otherwise would. And I think there are smart people around the NFL that aren't necessarily saying oh that you I h Dennis Allen. I'm going to lead the league in turnover margin.
- [12:57]
A
Right.
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B
So I think we'll have to wait until the next round meaning once the head coaches are in place and once the staffs are being assembled, that maybe Al Harris is going to be a coordinator. Right. You know, maybe somebody else gets a promotion. But we're not at the point where any Bears are going to be poached to be someone else's head coach right now.
- [13:18]
A
I really don't believe that's the case too. So I agree with you on that. And Dennis Allen. Yeah, the defense certainly isn't playing at a level where people would want to bring him back through as a head coach. But I do think Eric Biennami and Al Harris will get interviews. I don't necessarily think that, you know, unless they have some kind of fantastic interview and really stand out in the process compared to the other individuals that are brought into whatever teams that might be. I do think they'll, they'll get those, those interviews.
- [13:48]
B
What about Antoine Randall? L. The wide receivers coach?
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A
He, he very well too. Could. I mean he's, he's the assistant head coach also on the team and I know he's a very vocal leader and he takes a lot of that, that leadership aspect off of Ben Johnson's plate because I don't really think that is something Ben Johnson wants to do when he's more interested in doing other things as far as preparation is concerned. So from that, that, you know, that football, rah rah type approach and he's great at what he does. Obviously don't take that away.
- [14:19]
B
As far as we know.
- [14:20]
A
Yeah, as far as we know. Yes. But he, he could, he could get an inter. But I agree. I think I would be surprised if anyone is taken off the staff this year. But you never know, Dan. I mean, I have them winning the super bowl and if that happens, maybe somebody is coached.
- [14:34]
B
True. It's absolutely true. And I think that some of it also when it comes to interviews is going to be dictated by how the Rooney rule allows for some opportunities and that wouldn't otherwise have. And you might get in a room and say, boy, I'm glad that we had this consideration and this guy's exposed me to some ideas or some possibilities I didn't think existed. And very often what can happen is just because you're interviewing for a job doesn't mean you get that job. Sometimes just getting in the building and meeting people and having the stuff around the interview allows for other chances, other exposure to say, hey, you know what? This might open up or we've got this possibility and you might lose people in ways that you wouldn't otherwise expect.
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A
Well, and also too, that could also lead to guys talking around the league and you interview for a job you don't get, but you like, hey, you were a surprise candidate and maybe you were the second guy on the list, that word gets around. Or maybe you're the third guy where another team wouldn't even have considered you. Of course, owners talk and friends talk and GMs. Oh, no, that's great. Yeah. And so maybe a GM who's like, wouldn't have an Al Harris or an Anton Antoine Randall L on his list, all of a sudden hears from other people and says, oh, maybe I should take a, you know, look at this guy. Or maybe it's not this cycle, it's the next cycle and he's higher on that list. Or he's actually a target where he wouldn't have been before.
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B
And that doesn't even take in the effect of the various agents and. Oh, sure.
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A
And all the work they do behind.
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B
The scenes, the agencies, that you may not be represented by one of the high powered people, but after one round of interviews, it might just be that somebody with more power, more exposure and more phone numbers and connections says, all right, I want you as part of my stable right now. Or, or in less crass terms than that and, you know, represent you and then you're just in play differently because you're better connected.
- [16:35]
A
And I think Declan Doyle is a guy who's loyal to Ben Johnson, but unless Ben Johnson gives him opportunities to call plays, how do you grow in that dynamic? How?
- [16:44]
B
He's so young. What is.
- [16:45]
A
He's very, he's very young. But that doesn't matter now. I mean, if you're the age. Age doesn't matter anymore in the NFL as far as coaching.
- [16:52]
B
No, no, no. I'm saying the, I'm saying he's got a lot of time.
- [16:55]
A
Right. But no, but what I'm saying with, with that dynamic, I mean, Ben Johnson's not going to give up play calling to someone, even a guy like Declan Doyle. So how do you, how do you grow your resume with those opportunities? Because no one's going to hire him as a coordinator without calling plays.
- [17:09]
B
Right? Yeah. He's 30, by the way.
- [17:11]
A
He just turned 30. Oh, that's. He's definitely old enough to get, to get a job somewhere or maybe. Yeah, I don't, I don't know. I just don't know how that works when your, your head coach is the guy. He's not going to give up that opportunity.
- [17:22]
B
I think it's been, it's preseason or it is. He'll, he'll give him the chances when they're doing their, in practices, when they're doing situational stuff where they say, look, I'm Putting this much time in the clock and we've got officials here, and we're treating this like an end game situation. You call them. And there's ways to get reps, but there's some teams where all the assistants will do it together or they'll watch film together and compete. They almost play it like a parlor game.
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A
Oh, sure.
- [17:56]
B
Where here's a situation, everybody write out your play calls and then they talk and they compare and they can. There's ways to. To simulate all this stuff now that helps people develop that sense. But there's nothing like real time. There's nothing with dealing all the stimuli and talking to everybody. But I'll say, from the limited exposure that we've had to Declan Doyle, I've been pretty impressed. He seems on top of it. He seems prepared to answer questions and he seems like a good talker. He seems like he's willing to explain things. And at this stage, there's not a whole lot to ask from somebody in his position who is working for the guy.
- [18:38]
A
Yeah. And maybe next year when the Bears are defending their super bowl championship and they have the number one seed wrapped up after week 15, maybe he gets the call. Games in 16 and 17, 18.
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B
You know, listen to you. I like to lean in. I do. I. I know you do. I like the fact that you've made your decision and now all things are based off that. Well, let me then, as long as we're having this discussion, take this in another direction when it comes to the coaching searches and beyond.
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A
Okay.
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B
I am mystified on a lot of levels with what we learned yesterday about Troy Aikman and this role that he's apparently going to have with the Dolphins. So tell me if I'm crazy here, but there was what I know. Pro football talk referred to it as a coordinated leak of the hiring of Troy Aikman by the Dolphins as a consultant for their general manager search. And all of these reports hit right around the same time from the usual suspects, from Schefter, from Ian Rapoport. So this was a rollout of this news by somebody. I don't know if it's Steven Ross. I don't know if it's Aikman's people. I don't know if they're doing it together and having one little release leak to all the newsbreakers. But rapoport said Mike McDaniel is safe in his job as head coach. Then Schefter said it remains undecided. So there's a lot I'm trying to Figure out here. First of all, wouldn't the bosses at ESPN have some concerns about your number one analyst doing this and being in large part responsible for the hiring of a general manager by a team on which he's commenting like that already is in and of itself an issue. And then thinking, well, wait, it reflects immediately on the coach, because part of the interview with the gm, when you do it inverted like this, that might be the first question, are you bringing a coach? What do you think of our coach? So it's got to be weird and uncomfortable and in some ways, I don't know if it's unprofessional, but there have to be, there's got to be some sort of ethical conflict with your coaching staff of saying, yeah, we're, we got this. We're going to go to the broadcaster and rather than just describing what he thinks in a game about Caleb Williams or whoever it may be, we're gonna ask him what he thinks about who your boss should be and whether or not you should remain employed. I don't know. It's. The entire thing seems like there'd be a lot of corners cut or compromises made or bending over backwards to allow for Troy Aikman to have this kind of responsibility, running an NFL franchise and also having the, the position that he has. Am I crazy?
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A
No. No, you're not crazy. And I think the argument you make and the points you lay out are pretty valid and they're reasonable.
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B
But.
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A
But I just, I don't, I don't agree.
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B
Okay.
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A
I just, I don't see it as, as that significant of a deal. I see it as my, My initial thought when I saw the story was, all right, here's another guy that wants to be a jock sniffer and bring in a three time super bowl champion, one of the most recognized faces and voices for the NFL currently, as your number one guy on espn, and you're bringing him in the building not, not to evaluate your current situation, including your current head coach. I, I think he's just bringing. I. My initial take was again, after the jocks never thing, it was. Secondly, it was, what relationships does he have that I don't have, that maybe he could open doors or coordinate things easier in this search because they already have Dan Marino as a consultant on staff now.
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B
I mean, that I get. He's in charge of being Dan Marino.
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A
I know, but still. But he, but he's. I mean, you talk about a big name, he's also a big name. Doesn't have the championships that Troy Aikman does. But if you're talking about building relationships or opening doors or, you know, extending some opportunities that maybe wouldn't be there without those two guys, that's all I see it as. I don't see it as being a detrimental. Detrimental or critical of. Of the current staff or the situation. I just. I view it more as an opportunity to create relationships that maybe wouldn't. Wouldn't necessarily be as easy or even be there without him.
- [23:33]
B
All right, well, then I let. Let me just say this, though. If I were Aikman's boss at espn, I'd want to have a conversation. And I don't know what his contract language is like, but I know I'd want to have a conversation about what his ultimate goals are.
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A
Why is that, though? Yeah, explain that to me because, I mean, his job is to do the Monday night game with Joe Buck. That's his responsibility at the moment. Do your job at the moment.
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B
At the moment. I would like to know if this. If this is a first step toward a next act as a team executive does. Is this something he wants to do more of? And I think that I would. And I know the lines of journalistic integrity are blurred at best and cease to exist at worst, but there's a lot of trust and trust that I have as a viewer. I like Aikman's work. I really do. I think it's good his job. But I think if this is something. If you want to do this, if you want to either be another Bill Polian or Ernie. Of coursey, this is a little bit like what we went through with Brady.
- [24:46]
A
But I was gonna say, is this based on the Brady situation?
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B
It's not, because Brady hadn't established himself as a trustworthy, objective broadcaster. He still had built their brand. No, maybe not. I think he's getting better.
- [25:02]
A
He's getting better.
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B
But Aikman's got a lot of equity built up in his objectivity. So you could be compromising or. Or cashing in some of that if he's tiptoeing into this stuff. And I just think you gotta be pretty careful about having some of these questions. Well, why is he saying that? Or what. What does he know that somebody else doesn't when that director cuts to a coach and he's got a thought. And we're seeing it retroactively now because now I'm noticing that pro football talk went back to awful announcing and was getting some specific comments that Aikman made about the dolphins criticizing McDaniel's fourth quarter strategy. Saying, well, now they want to call timeouts. This is a ridiculous fourth quarter, as ridiculous I've seen in a long time.
- [25:54]
A
Remember, played those highlights.
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B
Yes, yes. A bizarre last few series. It's hard to understand the philosophy or what they're trying to do. And now we're going back and saying, well, the guy with these opinions is now going to have some authority over whether or not that coach has a job.
- [26:09]
A
And I wonder, though I would love to know the timeline. I don't think we ever will. Was that. And that was just a couple weeks ago. Was that game the impetus to say, hey, maybe we should take a look to Troy Aikman, hear his thoughts out and see what he had to say, because he was very critical about our team and he's got some experience. But if that's where it started, though, Dan, and it wasn't before that. If it was before that, yes, then I understand where you're coming from. And there is some ethical boundaries there that are being crossed that if these conversations started before Aikman got really. Because he went in really hard.
- [26:44]
B
I know.
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A
On that game. So if it was. If these conversations started before that, then, yeah, there's ethical boundaries that are crossed, and it's probably something to look at even deeper. But if it. If that was used as a starting point to say, hey, did you hear what Eggman had to say about us last? Or they're watching the games or hearing the games, or I'm sure it was brought to social media and people within the organization heard it. Then maybe, hey, maybe this is a guy that we could, you know, hey, pick up the phone and give Troikman a call. Why did you say that about the fourth quarter? What were you seeing? And then maybe a conversation took place from there, and it was like, hey, maybe we could bring this guy in as a consultant.
- [27:18]
B
But they're talking about gm.
- [27:19]
C
That's the.
- [27:20]
B
It's not a coaching conversation. They're talking about the guy to run. And if it's Steven Ross doing this, if you're talking to another goofy billionaire, that there's in large part, there's a lot of things about which a lot of these billionaires are just plain stupid. And we see it all the time in sports, all the time that they want to rub elbows with somebody famous and they want to have these people around. This Steven Ross is one of these guys, too. We know that.
- [27:51]
A
Yeah, for sure. That's why I initially thought the jock sniffer type thing just to get this guy in. But, you know, I mean, I think if. If Mike McDaniel is going to be fired, he would be fired with or without Troy Aikman being a consultant.
- [28:04]
B
That may be, but it's still the appearance of his. And the fact that it's. There are. I know, and I'm not naive enough to think that there aren't all kinds of conversations that happen and maybe whether it's Aikman or Collinsworth or anybody. So anyone say, hey, what do you think? And there are personal relationships and there are opinions given. But that's a far cry from an actual consulting contract that. I get it. That for Bill Polian and Ernie, of coursey, and the animal that lives on his head and any of these other people who've set up sort of a late career, post career cottage industry as one of those guys. You're not talking about one of the residents of a bully pulpit of broadcasting.
- [28:51]
A
So a third thought I had, Dan, was maybe this was the initial step in looking at Troy Aikman as a possible general manager.
- [28:59]
B
Exactly. But that's why he's got to have a conversation with his current employee.
- [29:04]
A
I get it. But because. Because the. To me, the Tom Brady. Regardless of how much equity he had built up and experience in years of doing it, the Tom Brady thing open. Opened the door for something like this to happen. Like how? Okay, so you're gonna let Tom Brady be an owner and a broadcaster, then you have to let Troy Aikman be a general manager and a broadcaster as well, too.
- [29:22]
B
That was part of my concern about that at the time.
- [29:26]
A
Yeah.
- [29:27]
B
I just think that it's. It starts to look a bit unseemly when you. When you have people on TV pulling the strings for some of this stuff.
- [29:35]
A
I, again, I agreed with what you were saying. Like, I understand it. I can. I didn't agree. I completely understand what you're saying, but. And you make a very good point for it. And it does. Can. It does seem a little. A little shady. There's that possibility there. But. But I, I also just. I'm going to lean on the fact that I think it's just an opportunity for Steven Ross to rub shoulders on a closer level with Troy Aikman, who had some harsh comments about his team.
- [29:57]
B
Isn't elbows.
- [29:58]
A
Rub elbows. You rub elbows. Yeah. Yeah, you do. You rub elbows and wieners. Not shoulders.
- [30:03]
B
Not rubbing wieners.
- [30:05]
A
They're not.
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B
That's a different story.
- [30:07]
A
Oh, okay. It's not this one. Okay, shoot.
- [30:10]
B
No, different one.
- [30:11]
A
Let me take that off my notes. Not rubbing wieners. All right, Got it. Got it down. Thank you. Elbows, elbows, not wieners.
- [30:21]
B
Sharp elbows. Yes.
- [30:22]
A
Okay, good. Yes.
- [30:23]
B
So that's set. Wieners is right out.
- [30:27]
A
Stupid things.
- [30:28]
B
Get it quick.
- [30:30]
A
Like, the trap door to stupidity is, like, always.
- [30:34]
B
Underneath, under these shows.
- [30:36]
A
Yes.
- [30:37]
B
It's not even really.
- [30:38]
A
Yeah.
- [30:39]
B
It's a trapdoor. But it's even like the hook and eye, the screw that holds it in is barely there.
- [30:45]
A
Oh. But the bad part is that, like, we do it to ourselves. It's not even like there's a. There's some villain hiding, lurking in the shadows that pushes the button. It's just we do it well.
- [30:54]
B
I don't. I want it always there. That. That's ideal. It needs.
- [30:57]
A
No, you're right. I said rub shoulders. That was wrong. It's rub elbows and not wieners.
- [31:01]
B
Okay, well, you added that part. Okay.
- [31:04]
A
Wasn't that always the saying? I thought that was always the saying.
- [31:08]
B
That was the idiom.
- [31:10]
A
Yeah. We go to the social events, like in rub elbows and wieners.
- [31:16]
B
Go to that golf outing. Yep. Real good. Wiener rubbing opportunity. What you say? Nothing.
- [31:23]
A
Giving shoulders, right? Oh, yeah. No, no. Elbows.
- [31:25]
B
No, no, I forgot. Elbow. Yes. Elbows. Thank you.
- [31:28]
A
Anyway, Elvis. Yeah. No, I get what you're saying. I do. And. And, you know, part of your argument is convincing, and it's like. It's. Hey, there's. There's an opportunity here where this. This looks kind of. Kind of shady. So. Yeah, I would love to know the timeline, how. How this all came about. Like, how. Like when. When did the interest in Trey Aikman's opinion on your general manager. When did that come to light? When did you say, hey, this is a good idea for us to move forward with this guy as a consultant. I would love to know that. And hopefully one of the reporters figures that out and gets that information for us.
- [32:03]
B
Well, because it's also, as we were mentioning previously about the agent class, and it really was for the Bears, I think. And with what we learned about Trace Armstrong with the Eberfluss hiring, that was one step in learning about the power of certain agents. And especially when the owner publicly does this, even locally, it makes you think, like, well, why don't you know football? Why do you need this every time we would bring it up about the Bears? So here you are, this ancient football family that talks about your roots to the beginning of the league you create. You built the league, and you don't know anything about football. And you've got to call anybody.
- [32:43]
A
You don't know anybody in football, anybody.
- [32:45]
B
And you don't have this is what the same team, remember that had to pay a half a million dollars to a search firm to find the assistant general manager in their own division to hire. You know, that goes. That was the Jerry Angelo hire. And then it was. It was. It was Ernie, of course, he. And the roadkill on his head. And it was. And Bill Polian. So anytime you just think, like, why? Why do you need this?
- [33:09]
A
Well, because it just shows the lack of football.
- [33:13]
B
Yes.
- [33:13]
A
Wisdom and relationships that Michael and George have had over the years.
- [33:18]
B
And then we learn. But that's why that vacuum is filled by Trace Armstrong. Why they had to outsource the hiring of their general manager. And at the time, that idiot coach that they brought in the press conference. And he gave us the stupid ass hits principle. And then it was asked directly about, did the fact you have the same agent have anything to do with this? And they looked at each other. You want to answer? And that's when you knew this thing was doomed. Right. That. I mean, we called it the Eber flu ship. We called it after one press conference. Everybody knew it sucked. And now Jerry Jones is even saying, yeah, I shouldn't have hired this guy. And meanwhile, Jerry. Meanwhile, my powdered Toastman figurine is still not in my possession.
- [34:06]
A
I asked you if you want me to work on that for you. I'll get it done.
- [34:10]
B
Yes, actually, if you're. If you're offering.
- [34:12]
A
Yeah, I've offered weeks ago.
- [34:13]
B
They've got my personal effects. The thing never gave back.
- [34:17]
A
We'll get it handled.
- [34:18]
B
They took everything in my locker. Or it's still there, locked up in that locker. And the powdered Toast man figurine was in there. I've got stuff there that they never gave back and never offered to give back.
- [34:29]
A
Yeah, we'll get that stuff back. So then we can. You can put Potter Toast man right behind you on your shelf.
- [34:37]
B
He's missing. I'll put him right next to my first collegiate hit. I'll give him a. Oh, nice honored spot.
- [34:47]
A
I think, actually, I have a better spot. Put him inside the. The jaws of the shark.
- [34:52]
B
I could do that. See? Atlantic coast conference official ball. Acc. Duke 14, North Carolina 5, 928-1990. Line drive one hopper right. Right through the pitcher. I stole second and I was. And I. And I scored.
- [35:17]
A
Wow.
- [35:18]
B
Yeah, but the ball, my. My teammate, actually, because I. I got on base, the next guy fouled it into the woods. So when you got it, my. My roommate actually went. He went into the pine forest, found.
- [35:32]
A
It kind of minor or kind of College Park. You playing at where you're in the woods?
- [35:37]
B
Well, down the lines. Yeah. It wasn't. I mean, it wasn't really. We didn't play in the varsity field.
- [35:43]
A
Oh, okay.
- [35:45]
B
Well, we didn't play this. We. It was. It was a decent field.
- [35:48]
A
Irwin Field sounds like something we played in a 10U in the woods.
- [35:52]
B
It's club ball.
- [35:53]
A
Okay, I got it.
- [35:54]
B
You know, every once in a while, you'd play in a real stadium and, yeah, it would be fun. It's club ball. You play where you go wherever you can find a place to play.
- [36:01]
A
Hey, can I give you a couple little NFL notes here?
- [36:05]
B
I want NFL notes and news and tidbits and nuggets.
- [36:08]
A
One thing that we'll keep an eye on, even though of no interest in the game, is Browns and Bengals, because, of course, Myles Garrett is half a sack away from tying the record. He's one full sack away from breaking the record. They play the Bengals in Week 1. He did have two sacks in a Week 1 loss to the Bengals, so we're keeping an eye on that. And then I thought this was interesting. Justin Jefferson went out of his way with media to say that he would love to have J.J. mcCarthy back as quarterback next year.
- [36:37]
B
Why?
- [36:39]
A
Why did he say it or why did I find it interesting?
- [36:41]
B
Why does he think that? Both.
- [36:44]
A
Well, because he. His season was. Was just shot to hell with injury this year and poor play. So they're going to give him a full opportunity to, I think, come back and try to prove himself. But first of all, I don't believe Justin Jefferson.
- [36:58]
B
Well, that's what I'm wondering. Like, why wouldn't he want a better quarterback?
- [37:00]
A
Don't. Don't believe that at all. But I didn't think that not having J.J. mcCarthy was even an option. Like, I haven't read or heard anything out of Minnesota that they're considering moving on from JJ McCarthy after one bad season.
- [37:12]
B
I don't know if you could, because you had Daniel Jones there. You had Sam Darnold there.
- [37:16]
A
Right. And you said both of you guys can.
- [37:20]
B
And you. You would already be done. I mean, that somebody'd have to get fired.
- [37:24]
A
Yeah, I would think so. Yeah. I would think KOC might be on the hook for that. Right. Because that had to be his call about who he was going to use as quarterback. Yeah.
- [37:35]
B
I. I guess. I. Maybe it's. It's quasi. Adolfo Mensa. I don't know.
- [37:40]
A
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
- [37:43]
B
But that's. That's interesting. Yeah, I agree with you. I don't believe him.
- [37:46]
A
I don't believe him for one second.
- [37:47]
B
Because I would say that in his position you'd want somebody who is to do a better job to get you the ball.
- [37:54]
A
Do a better job throwing the ball.
- [37:56]
B
To you, allow you to affect games.
- [37:58]
A
So as a wide receiver, what's, what's the most important part of your game? Probably having a quarterback who can throw me the ball.
- [38:05]
B
Yeah, having the ball. How do you get the ball as a wide receiver? Someone throws it to me. Ergo the quarterback, basically. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Somebody the good.
- [38:17]
A
All right, so hey, let me ask you this next question.
- [38:19]
B
Yes.
- [38:20]
A
What is happening on Sunday around 6:30?
- [38:23]
B
Around 6:30. Well, the good news is on, on Sunday, at some point, well before 6:30, maybe even around 3 or so, there's going to be a live link that is going to be up in the live section of Forward Progress's YouTube page.
- [38:37]
A
That's important to notice. The, the YouTube. You have to go to the live tab. When you go to a YouTube channel, there's different sections on top. There's different in the tab. You have to go to the live.
- [38:45]
B
Tab for our post game.
- [38:48]
A
For our post game show.
- [38:49]
B
Yes. The link will be live and then you can get in there and hang out and watch the game and chat with each other and then we will join in immediately when the game ends. I'll be right here. And we will have our thoughts on not just Bears and Lions, but obviously we'll have the Philadelphia result at that point we will know what the path to a title looks like.
- [39:13]
A
Yes.
- [39:14]
B
At that point we'll have one for you. Yep, we will. We will have the Bears super bowl path laid out at that point and we will talk about everything and we'll look at, you know, hope the Bears make it through the injury free and that they can be all rested up and ready to go to take a run at this with whatever this defense can be. Whatever, whatever Dennis Allen thinks he can get out of these guys at this point and it's a subject for another time whether or not Dennis Allen is going to return as defensive coordinator next year. Is that, is that 100% a given?
- [39:54]
A
God, it's funny, I wouldn't even thought that until you just asked that question, like why it wouldn't be. But I guess it depends. I think it really depends how the season ends.
- [40:02]
B
I think it depends who's available too.
- [40:03]
A
And it depends how the season ends. For sure.
- [40:06]
B
We don't know if he was Ben Johnson's first choice.
- [40:08]
A
Yeah. Although he seemed like he was all in on the, on the decision to bring him in his head coaching. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. No, I got, I never even thought of that until you just asked that question. So. Yeah. Let's see how the season ends after the super bowl and we'll see how the defense plays through the super bowl as the Bears win. Yeah. I'll open up the the chat for Sunday's game around 3 o'. Clock. So if you're listening to the show now and you want to be a part of that, jump on in at 3pm jump on in, jump on in, as old TV would say.
- [40:41]
B
So looking forward to that. Can't wait. And we'll put the bow on a Bears regular season and lay out the look at the playoffs. So make sure you join us on this very show. This show is Forward Progress, a Chicago Bears podcast on the 312 Sports Network. Progress has stopped.
- [41:09]
A
Forward Progress, a Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312 Sports.