← Forward Progress - A Chicago Bears Podcast
Forward Progress - A Chicago Bears Podcast
Kevin Fishbain, Senior Writer The Athletic - Chicago Bears
00:44:39
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- [00:00]
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- [01:09]
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Dan Bernstein
Can I make my site firmer?
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Matt Abaticola
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Dan Bernstein
I mean,
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Kevin Fishbane
if you're a Bears fan, you're thinking forward progress.
- [01:45]
Dan Bernstein
Come on.
- [01:53]
Kevin Fishbane
Forward Progress A Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312 Sports.
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Matt Abaticola
You know that when you have Forward progr you have the best talk about the Chicago Bears and the NFL. Dan Bernstein Mattabaticola here with you on 312 Sports. And we want to bring in our guest whose name came up in this space in conversation this week. You know that face. You will know this voice. It is Kevin Fishbane of the Athletic and you can follow him on the socials. Okay, Fishbane. So I saw the name. You'll love this, Kevin. I saw the name Zach Azani came up when he took the job as wide receivers coach for the Raiders and I knew he'd been with the Bears For a year. And I knew there was something weird or funny or different that would cause me to remember his name. So I looked him up and. And there was a story you wrote about something he said with Jason Goff and me about. He was watching. They were sitting in the receiver's room and he was with. Oh, my God. It was like Kendall Wright and Kevin White and Victor Cruz. And they were watching nothing but their college tape to try to convince Kevin White that there was a time in his life when he was good at football.
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Dan Bernstein
And it ended up being like this
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Matt Abaticola
whole thing, like, why isn't he watching NFL tape? And I don't remember exactly where it went, but that was. It pulled this 2017 ancient memory out of God knows where. And there you were.
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Dan Bernstein
Remember some guys. How about that?
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Matt Abaticola
Yes. Remembering guys.
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Dan Bernstein
That was. Yes. He said that they were trying to show Kevin White, look what you did at West Virginia. And then I believe we asked Kevin White about it. He was not happy at all with that strategy by the wide receivers coach. And he did not shy away from it. It was very uncomfortable. And here's his auntie, like, yeah, we showed him this. This is who you are. And we asked Kevin White about it and he. That was. Wow.
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Kevin Fishbane
Yeah, that was a stupid idea, man. What a terrible idea.
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Dan Bernstein
Look what happened before. You had all these things right.
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Kevin Fishbane
You're struggling right now because your legs are broken. You can't run. But here's what you did when you could run.
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Matt Abaticola
And not just that they lied about it. Remember? It's like, does he have a stress fracture in his leg? No, absolutely not. Well, he kind of had a stress fracture in his leg.
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Kevin Fishbane
We were all like, what?
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Matt Abaticola
Huh?
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Kevin Fishbane
Oh, the good old days.
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Matt Abaticola
Yeah, the glory days of the Bears.
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Kevin Fishbane
Now we're just trying to figure out where the stadium is going to go, if they're going to float it in Lake Michigan or go to Indiana or Iowa or who knows?
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Matt Abaticola
That was a weird day yesterday.
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Kevin Fishbane
Possibility.
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Matt Abaticola
Yeah.
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Dan Bernstein
I did wonder. I did wonder if. If John Fox was the coach for all this because, like, you know, like, we don't. Like, we. Fortunately, we don't get the bluster from the head coach anymore. The head coach is. Is very good with us and it's a straight shooter. But, like, could you imagine dealing with, like, the stadium stuff and John Fox being the voice of the team? That would have been a lot at once.
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Matt Abaticola
And that was my conclusion, was it shows you that anything that is not under the aegis of Ben Johnson is still old Bears. It like all the old Bears rules Still apply. I was told just talking to some people late yesterday, Kevin, and really it was a bizarre, bizarre day yesterday. And I'm told that the confusion about the timing of certain things that were said and done, the confusion is not just ours. That there were some people in siloed conversations at Hallis hall that were also surprised to hear some of the stuff that was going on. It's not just the outside.
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Dan Bernstein
Yeah. You know, I don't even know where to begin with this thing, guys. Like, I was sitting in this office when I got the text from Scott Powers 5, nearly five years ago when he got the scoop that they were purchasing the land in Arlington park. And like for us to be here the start of 2026, there is, I quipped on Blue sky yesterday, like, I don't know how many stories I've written about this, but I know there have been zero shovels in any ground in that state.
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Matt Abaticola
Yeah, yeah.
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Dan Bernstein
It's like, I mean, and it's one of those things where, I mean, I don't, like, it's not my job to do, like, I don't take anybody's, like, I don't think anybody looks good in this. It's just like, no. And, and you guys know me well enough. No, I'm the last person in the world who is going to like back a football team in their push to get public funds. But then you start like looking into like what they're asking for and like the way the city or not the city, well, some of the city politicians, the state politicians have handled it. And look, you guys know there's no surprise that Indiana has rolled out the red carpet for this. No, I mean it's very, it makes sense on their side. But boy, oh boy, this thing is. I, I will say this like my, my tldr of what happened yesterday is I don't, I did not come away from yesterday thinking, oh my God, they're going to Hammond. That was not my takeaway. My takeaway was this stuff was going to happen, these votes were going to go the way they were. I think the statement was just a strong statement that kind of jarred everybody. But I think that like Illinois politicians knew this was coming. Like they knew maybe the statement just like reading it bothered them. But I still, I don't know, I mean, I'll still go like, I think I. Because we all have to put this in football parlance, right? We all have to find like our, our.
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Matt Abaticola
Oh, the tortured metaphors.
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Kevin Fishbane
Oh God, it's at the 10 yard line now, Kevin.
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Dan Bernstein
I'VE got, I've got it at. I gave Indiana a, a small lead, but, like, start of the fourth quarter, like, you know, maybe they just, they just kicked a field goal and everyone's really excited. But I'm worried that the Indiana team is too excited about their lead that they have. Right. That they might have right now.
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Kevin Fishbane
Why do you say that? What do you mean?
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Dan Bernstein
Well, because I think that, like, if you read what was coming out of there, I think, you know, the speaker said this is a great day for northwest Indiana. I saw some of them were wearing navy and orange ties, and I get why they're excited. But this thing is just, I just don't think this thing is close to being finished. And I think if, if Illinois wants to pass the mega project bill, by the time this podcast goes up, I think we're done. I think they're going to Arlington Heights, and so there's still time. And the other thing that we, we, we noted in our story is they know they can build a stadium this minute in Arlington park. They don't 100% know that yet. There's a lot of, like, land surveying. I'm going to defer to Dan here
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Matt Abaticola
because that I have heard when they said site specific due diligence.
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Dan Bernstein
Yes.
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Matt Abaticola
You're talking about environmental lawyers descending on this place, taking soil samples, figuring out they might, from what I've been hearing, it's one thing to build a stadium, they might be able to get a stadium there. But if you're talking about everything else that they could do in Arlington Heights with retail and hotel and residential and parkland and everything else that they could do, there are no worries there. None at all. But if this is, you're talking about basically an old toxic swamp where the amount of expense, the amount of backfilling that's possible. They don't even, they haven't even scratched the surface of what some of those responsibilities would be, as far as, you know, logistically, financially and how big that lift is going to be. I thought yesterday in large part was very silly and it will ultimately be remembered as a very silly news day.
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Kevin Fishbane
Well, it really was silly. And the whole, the whole idea of what the Bears said in their statement, too, and we talked about it yesterday, Dan, at length on the commitment, the commitment was to continuing to do our due diligence to look at the land site. There is no commitment to the state of Indiana. There is no commitment to moving the stadium to Indiana. They're not doing it. It was just, hey, we're continuing this process because we want to be in Arlington Heights. And this is how the game is being played between the state of Illinois and the Bears. Because when you look at it, we both kind of messed it up at different times at different points of the whole process. And the Bears messed it up first, and then Illinois came in second, and then the Bears messed it up again, and then Illinois is messing it up more. So there was no commitment. And people saw that word commitment, and they said, oh, my God, the Internet blew up. Oh, my God, the Bears are moving to Indiana. Like, I've had friends I haven't talked to in forever. I'm getting texts. Hey, how do you feel about the Bears leaving? You know, leaving the States? And I'm like, they're not leaving the state. Well, they said they're committed to it. Yeah, they're committed to continuing the process of jerking around the state of Indiana so they can get what they want in Illinois.
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Matt Abaticola
Yeah, the ability to read is lost on a lot of people.
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Dan Bernstein
Yeah. I think the line that caught my attention was when they said, this is the most meaningful step. And to me, you could. First of all, you could argue with that, because I think closing on the land in Arlington park and. And Dan, to the point earlier, making sure that land is ready for what you want to build, because that's the big thing, and that's done in Arlington Park. But I think what they're saying is this is the most meaningful step because we found a state that's going to give us not just everything we want, but everything we want and more. And.
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Matt Abaticola
But not really, because they would still be. They would still be a tenant after all of this. If you're telling me that this, that what, what, what hallis started in 1975, that George Hallis has wanted to move his team to Arlington Heights, specifically arlington heights, since 1975. And then all the Michigan mugs, Halas dying and everything that they've been through to. To go through. Remember 1995, the Planet Park? One of the first stories I covered on the Beat was them coming out at old Hallis Hall. Here comes Mike McCaskey with this big cardboard model of where they're going. They're going to Gary. They're going, this is it. Planet park is a go. We are headed to Gary, Indiana. And they walked away. We're all looking at like, what the hell was that? What are they doing here? That was ridiculous. And it's. If you're telling me that before Virginia shed her mortal coil that she didn't give very specific instructions about what her father, what his dream was and where they wanted to be. And you don't think she was involved in Ted Phillips purchasing that land and that she has let. If you thought her dying wish was for her son to take her father's team and put it on a toxic swamp out of state? Are you kidding me?
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Dan Bernstein
Come on. And I think, and John Greenberg mentioned this, I believe in the column that he wrote that's up today. Is it like when you compare these states? That is key, Dan, is that in the end, George is still in charge. And there's no way George prefers Hammond to Arlington Park. The one thing, and I don't know the full details on this, but do believe in the Indiana situation that will make it different than currently is. The Bears will have full control over the stadium as opposed to now, obviously the park district. So that to them that is a plus, even though they won't own the land. But I mean, I just like, I remember when they purchased the land and people were like, well, do you think they're actually gonna do it? I'm like, you think this family is gonna spend that much money on land and not build a stadium there? And I do. Maddie, to your point, like you look at kind of the peaks and valleys of this, I still think that the worst thing the Bears did was the one year flirtation with the city. I just think that was such. I like it was from the moment they kicked it off with the embarrassing, the embarrassing prayer and the dog and pony show the day before. They're about to draft Caleb Williams to do that and then spend 12 months and God knows the resources, the time, the consultants, the billable hours and all of that on something that was never going to happen. Right? And all, you know, in some part to get the Chicago politicians, hey, listen, we tried. You guys can appreciate that. We tried. Now we need you to help us here. And they're not getting the help that they were hoping for after that. And like, you just sit there, you look at those 12 months and be like, where could you have been if you did something else with those 12 months? I really always look at that. You know, if you go through the fine print, I'm sure there are other missteps by both the state and the team, but that one. And maybe I'm just being selfish, guys, because, you know, you guys know what it's like covering a draft. And I'm about to enter three days of, you know, 12 hours in my bunker at Hallis hall and I have to go to Soldier Field to listen to this so, like, so to me, I guess now that I talk through it, maybe I took that one a little personally.
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Matt Abaticola
No, but you can blame Kevin Warren. I was in some of these conversations that I've had with all the. The consultants and lobbyists, particularly lobbyists and communications consultants that they've hired. I'm told that regardless of the advice that he gets, Warren acts on his own. That Warren will just say, we're doing this now or we're writing this letter, and that there are all kinds of things that no matter how many people are there saying, here's the timetable, here's what's in our best interest that he is able to operate on in his own timeline, with his own decision making untouched by anybody else. And that is part of what is catching people even internally off guard by things that. That seem awkward in the timing.
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Dan Bernstein
Yeah. And I mean, you want to talk about awkward timing, like, this is still the team that put out a open letter about moving to Indiana three days before the franchise's biggest regular season game in two decades. And that just. And like, that. That was just obscene that they did that in that moment. So, yeah, and I saw. I think I saw Mark Potash tweet to what you said earlier, Dan, that, like, it's just the things that Ben Johnson touches we don't have to worry
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Kevin Fishbane
about, which is nice.
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Dan Bernstein
Yeah, it's. Yeah. And that's what I was saying. Like, they finally have a coach and they've, you know, we're pretty sure they've got the quarterback and they've got the football. Stuff it. And the thing is, that's what's most important is the football. Like, I had a friend text me this morning. He goes, I kind of wish The Bears went 7 and 10 last year so I could be more mad at them right now. But I'm so excited about what's to come that I'm kind of pushing the stadium thing, like, a little bit to the side and being like, you know what? I'm just going to focus on the fact that, like, hey, we can have real conversations about what this team's expectations are this year and Talk playoffs for 2026. And I'm just going to try not to, you know, pay attention to this, you know, ignore the man behind the curtain kind of thing.
- [17:20]
Progressive Insurance Announcer
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Kevin Fishbane
Yeah, I'm just, I'm really looking forward to the day when it becomes official that they're moving to Arlington Heights. And the Bears brass has to get in front of the cameras and say how this has always been the location they wanted to go to. This is where they always wanted to be. They were never going to leave the state of Illinois. They could never do that to the legacy of George Hallis and basically, you know, just send a big middle finger to the state of Indiana while all those goobers are going to be like, what, what do you mean you're not, you're not coming here to Indiana? Like, we, we got the, we got the land. We were here for your first. Well, like, I think that that's going to, not that I have, I have no connection Indiana. It's going to be funny. I'm going to laugh at it from a distance, but like, that's where that's headed. That's where it's going to end up. Where you did all this work and all this time for really nothing. Because it's not going to come of anything.
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Dan Bernstein
Yeah, I, I, I, I'm with you, man. I still think this eventually ends up on the Heights. And I, I remember we were in London, this is October 2024. And Kevin Warren said something like, we're exactly where I thought we'd be at this point, which was a little surprising. And, and then I think I might, I don't know if I actually followed up. I probably did this in my head, but I was kind of like, well, when do you reach the point, a point where you're not where you thought you'd be and what do you do then? Because now we have that whole thing where he said there's gonna be a shovel in the ground by the end of 2025. It did not happen. But you're right, it's going to be like when a GM comes out after the a draft pick and says he's the guy we wanted. We cannot believe that he fell to us here.
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Matt Abaticola
We did not expect he'd be there. We are. None of our boards had Even a possibility that he would be there.
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Dan Bernstein
Exactly. So you're right, Matt. That's probably, that's probably what's going to happen. What will be interesting is I, I think like the, the weird thing is the timeline is something that none of us can predict right now because you're going to get the, this bill is going to go through the Indiana House, the Senate's going to amend it. There's going to be a lot of pomp and circumstance when the governor of Indiana signs it, but that still doesn't mean it's done. That's going to happen next week. And then you go back to a due diligence thing. And that's the thing. There's no timeline on that. We have no idea when that'll be done. And that's kind of what Illinois lawmakers are kind of competing with this unknown, from what I can understand this unknown clock. And that's the thing. If that due diligence gets done and they're. And they're ready to, to put a shove on the ground and Illinois still doesn't want to do it, then maybe we're having a different conversation. Until we get to that point, I'll still kind of lean toward. I think this thing might eventually end up where it was always going to go. Yep.
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Kevin Fishbane
So the Bears did release yesterday cut. Amen Obama. Miga, what was your, your favorite memory of his time with the Bears?
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Dan Bernstein
Amy gave me a good quote, I believe after the win in Minnesota. I appreciated that because that was a big special teams win. If you guys recall, you had the Devin DuVernay return. You know what was. I wish I remembered. There was that game that all three linebackers were backups and he was one of them.
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Matt Abaticola
Yes. Jackson. Yes.
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Dan Bernstein
And he played really well. And then he got hurt. And I remember actually thinking it was kind of a big deal when he got back that for the playoffs that you had another special teams guy and they were down TJ Edwards at linebacker for that Rams game. I bet you didn't expect that kind of answer. Matt. I had some, I had some Amen Ogbong. Bemega, you know.
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Kevin Fishbane
Yeah.
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Dan Bernstein
They gotta go find another player with the last name like that to keep Joniak on his toes. After you, you move on from, from Eamon.
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Matt Abaticola
Did you, did it surprise you at all that it wasn't Tremaine Edmonds with a much bigger cap number?
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Dan Bernstein
A little bit. The cuts with these things are always strange, Dan, because I, and I don't know, I don't think Edmonds has anything but some of these guys are specific dates when they are supposed to get released. Like, I remember there was a Ryan Pace combine press conference where he kind of was like, all right, guys, here are the four players we're gonna cut at the start of the league year. And like, he told us then, these are the guys we're gonna cut, but we cannot do it until March 12th because of the language in their contract. It just, you have to wait until this date and then the dead, whatever it is. So I don't know if Tremaine Edmonds is one of those guys. It could happen in an hour, it could happen next week. I, I, I'm a little curious if they do the math on all the restructuring they can do and think, is there a way we can keep them? Like, again, I'm just trying to, like, play. I don't even know if it's Devil's advocate, but I'm just trying to, like, because he's still on the team. Like, is there that conversation where, like, hey, we've created X amount of cap space with all this. We can keep him for one, you know, for this last year and still do X, Y and Z. I don't know. You know, there have been times that the Bears have cut guys after the draft. I don't think they would do that with somebody like him. But I remember 20, gosh, there was the year they drafted Cody White hair, I believe they cut Matt Slosson, like, the next day. And they also drafted Dion Bush, and they draft and they cut Antrell Roll the next day. Now, those things are a little funky because those guys would have done the April offseason training programs if they voluntarily did it. So I, again, I, I always go back to that, that these timelines are strange. But so, again, it could happen any day. I, I still don't see them keeping him. But like, I, because it's, I'm forced to consider the possibility, I guess, because right now he's still on the team for next year.
- [23:41]
Matt Abaticola
I'm interested, too, in what difference Jeff King is going to make, if any. I don't know what his particular specialty is. Every assistant gm, somebody either comes from the college scouting side or they come from the pro scouting side. And that is usually their, their area of expertise before they're promoted to a position where they become the number two guy at everything. So how do you think Jeff King's approach might inform Ryan Poles differently than that of Ian Cunningham?
- [24:13]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, I think I'll speak about Jeff A little bit. Because it's, as you said, kind of said. Dan, it's so hard to know these personnel guys, to really get a good beat on how they operate until. Because we also never know who actually makes the call for certain things. The one thing I'll say about Jeff King, to go from one personnel staff to another is a big deal because GMs just want all their own guys. So he stuck around. When you talk to people around the league, I always loved what Terry would say. I talked to my guy.
- [24:47]
Matt Abaticola
Yes. My guy says. That's how my guy tells me when
- [24:52]
Dan Bernstein
I talk to my guys. And this is. This has been since Ryan Pace is here. Jeff King was always the guy that a lot of people in the league respected and just said really good things about him and his. And what he could be in this space. So I think that he's got a. Obviously, he's got a good eye for it. Ryan Poles respects him. I wonder if there's something about keeping the guy from the previous regime. Jeff King has been very active, I believe, in the quarterback stuff. He was the one that came and talked about Colson Loveland last year because Jeff King played tight end. So he knows a little bit about that. So, yeah, what that, like, looks like in practice, I don't know. But I do know that this is somebody that has obviously earned the trust and respect of Ryan Poles and has it around the league that when that Chargers GM job came a couple years ago, Jeff King was in play for it. Ian Cunningham was, too. The one that went to Joe Hortes from Baltimore. I remember Jeff King was in play. His name comes up a lot, so we'll see how long he has this job. But he is somebody that has a lot of praise from people when you
- [25:51]
Kevin Fishbane
talk to them along those lines, too. With Declan Doyle being gone in Baltimore, Press Taylor for more options, is now the offensive coordinator.
- [26:00]
Dan Bernstein
What.
- [26:01]
Kevin Fishbane
What role did Declan Doyle play for Ben Johnson? And how do you see Press Taylor taking over that. That role?
- [26:09]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah, the OC for head coach who calls plays is, like, one of the strangest jobs, I think, in football. Like, we. We always ask the guy, like, what is it that you do here? You know, like, what do you do?
- [26:18]
Matt Abaticola
Well, Ben Johnson said it, he's a grunt. No, essentially, his job is to stay up late giving him every possible permutation of what he could call or.
- [26:29]
Dan Bernstein
And I wonder, like, I remember Dan Weiner and I were talking about when the job came open, we wondered if almost Press Taylor was overqualified for that, you know, to do the grunt work. I mean, this guy has been a play caller before. It didn't go very well at Jacksonville for myriad reasons. But so, yeah, I think that there is a nice synergy and consistency and you don't have to change things. He knows everything. Selfishly, I'll go back to. It's all about me. Really enjoyed talking to him last year. Like, I felt like I learned a lot about the scheme and the way he saw things. I, I couldn't find the quote. So I'm so I, like, maybe I missed. I thought that Ben kind of credited Press Taylor for that Colson Loveland touchdown Cincinnati, that that was something that Press had seen during the week. Of course, I couldn't find confirmation that. So maybe I'm making it up, which is.
- [27:25]
Kevin Fishbane
No, you're not making that up. No, you're not. He, no, no, no, you're not. He did mention Press Taylor.
- [27:30]
Matt Abaticola
Yes.
- [27:32]
Dan Bernstein
And, and I was gonna say, you know, it's 2026 and people allowed to make things up on podcasts all the time, apparently. So, you know, not this podcast, of course. Never hear, Never hear the other ones. No, I, I, I, I enjoyed talking to Press Taylor. I think it just gives them just this easy, like, you know, everything, you know, the plays, you know, now maybe some of the stuff he's doing is maybe a little more high level potentially because he's done it before, but the eyes up in the booth and, and knows what he's seen. DEO is. That guy was really impressive. I just was sitting there being like, like I've now reached the age where I was almost a decade older than the offensive coordinator and he went up to the podium and I was just like blown away at the way he, he went through things and, and talked through plays and handled that authority. Really, really impressive. And, and I think, I think Press, I, I think it was the right call to just keep things as the same as we can to keep this thing going.
- [28:32]
Matt Abaticola
Was there any truth to the Arizona Cardinals inquiring about the availability of Tyson Bent?
- [28:39]
Dan Bernstein
Not that I had heard. You know, that was a really fun. You want to talk about yesterday being a weird day? That was a funny day. Or like I'm suddenly seeing all these things on my. For you. Which is I gotta, I like want to delete that entire way that turns out to be my, like, my insomnia thing. I'll just be. Which doesn't help. Insomnia. It's like, well, you're on your, for you tab. You're staying.
- [29:02]
Matt Abaticola
No, it's the last thing you want
- [29:04]
Dan Bernstein
to do that read a book. I know, I know the yeah, because I was totally seed. Like, what could the Bears get for Beijing and his trade to Arizona? Like, what? And so then you have to go peel the layers and find. And it was somebody, you know, works in Arizona radio. This is not like a, you know, Joe Schmo out there. So I know I had not heard any of that. I started going to my Mark Tressman. I have not heard that. I didn't see any thought. But look, I think that the Tyson Bajan thing becomes interesting when a team's. This is, it's like, it's weird to say it's when a team starter gets hurt. I think that's, I've always thought that's when Tyson becomes a thing because I, I, I just don't know if you're making this big play for him to be your backup, if you're making this big play for him to be your starter. I feel like you're only doing that because something catastrophic happened and you, and you liked what you saw in the preseason. The Bears love Tyson Bagent. Oh, my gosh, they love him. And I just think that, like, Ben Johnson loves him. And I, I don't know, like, what it would take. I mean, obviously there's, there's a price in all these things, but it would really surprise me for them to move on from him when, if it's not something huge. And I think part of it, too, because they like him so much, is I feel like they would only want to do it if it's good for him. Now, maybe that's not the best part of doing business, but, like, that's how much they love this guy, really. So I think again, we'll see how quarterback injuries play out. Maybe he becomes in play, especially if he's another really good preseason. But the following year, when it's the last year of his current contract, then I think you start having those conversations because if you're him at some point, you're kind of like, I, I need a chance somewhere. And, and if you're the Bears, you want to, you'd like to get something back. If that's going to be. You're going to give them an opportunity somewhere. I mean, you guys heard what the way Ben Johnson talked about him in training camp, and it was kind of an awkward thing because it was juxtaposed. Pretty poor trading camp.
- [31:11]
Matt Abaticola
Exactly. See, I, I read that as, as I heard the negative spaces, I heard that more as an a coaching opportunist. Being asked the right question at the right time to provide a specific answer.
- [31:28]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah, I think there was definitely. There was calculated, I'm sure. Just as I wouldn't be surprised. But it doesn't mean they don't really like the guy and everything he kind of stands for. Like, I, I remember as we're watching training camp, you're kind of looking for your. Trying to think of a polite way to say this. Like your, your guys that are just going to mix it up. Your guys that are going to be. You guys who are going to be the A holes.
- [31:57]
Matt Abaticola
Chaos agents.
- [31:58]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah. And like the guys who are just nuts in a good way. And, and I think that, and I think that Tyson's in that category where he's just like, you know, like he, he has a crazy work ethic. He does everything the right way. He's just obsessed with football and that's what these GMs and coaches love. The Bears are a few guys like Jaquan Briskers like that in a sense. If he's like. Like this year, I think was a good example of Brisker being that guy. I think one of the reasons they signed Grady Jared is because he's just this like, guy who's going to get everyone rallied, you know, who's like that.
- [32:34]
Matt Abaticola
Shamar Turner is apparently also like that. And just where he can flip a switch and be like, dude, this guy's. This guy's different. He's a maniac.
- [32:43]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah. I think this year's draft class, Turner, Burden and Loveland are guys like that who, it's like you want them in your alley fight, for lack of a better word. Like, because they are just tough and they're, you know, and I think that this team had lacked that in previous years and this draft class and some of those guys. That's why I think of, I think of Bajint in that category that he's just like one of those guys that like, like I'd like worry if there was like a scrum going on that he'd be running off from the sideline to go defend his guys out of principle.
- [33:13]
Kevin Fishbane
What's your, what's your gut on DeAndre Swift?
- [33:19]
Dan Bernstein
That's a great one, Matt, because like one. It's like one of those things where when the, when the season ended and you start going through the math and the cap, you're like, oh, they'll keep him. He's. He's a career best year. It's one more year in his contract. Like, it's not that exorbitant of a cap hit and it obviously worked down the stretch. But it's also like I was, I was doing a mailbag and I got a question like, what's, what would surprise you the most in round one? And I said, I don't think Jeremiah Love is falling to 25, right? Like that. He's like our guy Dame Brugerism. That's number three prospect, period. But that position is interesting to me because we know how much Ben Johnson loves his running backs. Ben Johnson's team drafted Jameer Gibbs, right. So is that a situation where they have an opportunity to get somebody in round one or round two that Ben loves and then would you part ways after? You know, you have that guy that, that's, that's the way. Because I don't know, like, are you signing somebody right now to play that role? And, and you get your cap savings from Swift and you sign somebody to a cheap deal who's a veteran? I haven't honestly, I honestly have not like studied the veteran running back market. But like, you need to replace him if you're going to do it now. That's why I wonder, like, I like to think he's still here unless they drafted somebody and then maybe they make a move.
- [34:40]
Matt Abaticola
Something I always get curious about this time of year that I find interesting is that it's really hard to get any NFL coach to ever talk about what they do away from the game because they're all terrified of it, speaking negatively toward their work ethic. And I remember that Dick Giron was a great golfer, but he never wanted to talk about it because he was kind of embarrassed that he had the time to be a single digit handicap. And that in among football circles, like, well, he doesn't. He's not coaching hard enough if he's that good at golf. But I wonder about somebody like Ben Johnson who has, you know, the, the family that he has or any of the other assistant coaches, anything interesting about their wind downs, like who, who goes hiking, who goes fishing, who goes off into. Or I just. Because coaches hate it. They hate discussing it. They keep it very, very private. And there are some that maybe want to go take an architecture tour of Asia, you know, And I'm just, I wonder some of that stuff.
- [35:44]
Dan Bernstein
Well, back to the top of the program, Dan. John Fox was not shot. About time I was golf.
- [35:49]
Progressive Insurance Announcer
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- [35:50]
Matt Abaticola
Well, he didn't care. That was the great, that was the great thing. And that's what we knew. That's when we knew he knew he was fired, was when he Started talking about his pet monkey.
- [36:01]
Dan Bernstein
Remember that rip Gidget Gidget Sky Point? Yep, that's a good question. I, I mean, look, Ben's got three young kids, so there's only. So. So. And I don't know. And he's the type of guy, like, I'm wondering about what this summer is going to look like. Is this going to be a first pitch at Wrigley? First pitch? It, you know, Comiskey first, you know, are you gonna, is he going to be doing that tour? Because that's not really him. But I think he also understands there is something that comes with this job where I have to, like, do certain things. But yeah, we've never, we haven't got into that. I don't know about golf with him. I don't know. Like, all I know is he's friends with Chase Rice and likes country music and likes going to see his friend Chase Rice perform. So there's, there's that, but I, I imagine that's going to be like a family vacation kind of guy. And then, and remember when, remember when
- [36:51]
Matt Abaticola
Eber flu showed up at a, like
- [36:53]
Dan Bernstein
a
- [36:55]
Matt Abaticola
Marquette game with Matt LaFleur? Yeah, yeah, we know. That's not happening.
- [36:59]
Dan Bernstein
That's not happening. Yeah, I don't, I don't think, I, I don't think Ben Johnson, like, yeah, I don't, I don't see him, like, showing up. You know, there was the, there was a summer that, like, Matt Neggy went to in the same, in like a month span. He went to the Masters and he went to Cameron Indoor and he talked about, he like, had this, like, sports heaven, you know, off season when he was taking his kids. And, and again, Ben Johnson's kids are too young for him to do stuff like that or talk about it. So maybe it's just a family vacation getaway. Like I could. It certainly seems like Dennis Allen's the type of person who would never talk about anything he does outside the building.
- [37:33]
Kevin Fishbane
He doesn't talk about football.
- [37:36]
Dan Bernstein
Like, he's a football guy. I, I, this, this is on topic, but I remember, like, one of the first times I ever covered a training camp. I was at the old Pro Football Weekly. I went to Green Bay with Dan Arkish, Hub's brother, and we went out to a bar with Wayne Larravi. This has got to be 2011, maybe. And I'll never forget Wayne said to me, bring over my beer.
- [37:58]
Matt Abaticola
Collaborate on the delivery
- [38:04]
Dan Bernstein
that. He said, like, there's no job in which people work more than they need to than a football Coach. And that was like 15 years ago when he said that. And you were kind of in the peak Belichick world where, you know, you. You could never leave the office because you knew in your mind that Bill Belichick is still there. And it's a Parcels thing, too, right? Parcels was like that. So, like, I always think about that line when you hear the stories of. And Ben Johnson. Like. Like what was like. I mean, he, he was a workaholic and, you know, hey, it worked. The Bears won a lot of games. But, yeah, it's a. It's a good question, Dan. I'm. I'm sure you know who. We can all count. Pat Finley is going to be the one to ask Ben Johnson, like, what he did on his holiday. That's a very. That's in Pat. Yeah, that is in Pat's wheelhouse. Funny. And. And I think Ben will. Ben will play a little bit and I think he'll give us some. Some stuff and then we'll learn more. But based on what I know about him now, I don't think this is. This guy's much more than just a couple family vacations to get the kids out of the house.
- [39:00]
Matt Abaticola
Yeah, I just. Because at the ages, I just hope he's past the indoor water park phase of parenting. That's one of the worst phases of parenting. Oh, God, does that suck?
- [39:09]
Kevin Fishbane
Yeah, but you don't get past it. Yeah, you don't really get past it when you start doing the, as you know, this, the travel sports. I know, like everywhere you play, it's centered around a water park within, you know, 20 minutes of where you're at playing. So whether it's basketball or baseball. And talk about head coaches, Kev, were there any. Any head coach hirings or any head coach movings that stood out to you as that was a good move or that's a questionable move or. I don't quite understand that. For me, it was Mike McCarthy in Pittsburgh, but any, Anything for you. Jump out.
- [39:41]
Dan Bernstein
Didn't you hear?
- [39:41]
Matt Abaticola
He's from Pittsburgh and he developed Joe Montana.
- [39:46]
Kevin Fishbane
That was. That's the best part of this.
- [39:48]
Matt Abaticola
Fell for that. You know, like, you know that Montana guy? That was me. Yeah, that was McCarthy. Yeah, that was all Mike McCarthy.
- [39:56]
Dan Bernstein
I, I mean, I am guilty of. When the Bears interviewed 40, 000 people for head coach last year and looked at Mike McCarthy's resume compared to everybody else outside Ben Johnson, I was like, this guy would be compared to what this team has had. No. You know, no.
- [40:10]
Kevin Fishbane
Well, no. And I actually, I'm not, I'm not opposed to Mike McCarthy. And I, you know, I wouldn't have been, you know, terribly upset if it was him and not Matt Eberfluss, but I was just surprised by Pittsburgh making that higher. I, I, and only because I thought they'd go somewhere younger that that's all. I, I didn't think they would go, someone in this, in his 60s, but it's almost like it stood out to me.
- [40:27]
Dan Bernstein
They, like, leaned into the joke we all make about them, you know, like, there's like, everybody makes fun of Pittsburgh for just taking. And like, when they went and got the young guy, nobody really knew. It was perfect. It was Mike Tomlin. So, yeah, you would think that maybe they go, gosh, like, there's a, there's a lafleur somewhere. Right? He's. Which one? Where did he go?
- [40:48]
Kevin Fishbane
Where did he go?
- [40:49]
Dan Bernstein
He's no, Solid's in Tennessee. Michael Flor is Arizona. That's right. This is what, this is what happens when.
- [40:55]
Progressive Insurance Announcer
Yes.
- [40:55]
Dan Bernstein
When the Bears play two extra weeks and I'm not, I'm not used to this usually I've got like, great.
- [41:02]
Matt Abaticola
It's awesome.
- [41:04]
Dan Bernstein
It was amazing. I'll take that all the time.
- [41:07]
Matt Abaticola
Who's coaching this team again? Who's coaching this piece of team? I don't know. All right, whatever.
- [41:12]
Dan Bernstein
I, I like Rob Salas, like, and I like his defense. So, like, I kind of like that move. Where Nagy and where's he? Giants. Right?
- [41:22]
Kevin Fishbane
Yeah.
- [41:24]
Dan Bernstein
That'll be interesting. I mean, he gets to call plays for a second year quarter, first round pick. That worked well the first year.
- [41:33]
Kevin Fishbane
Yeah. How great was that, though, when Andy Reid comes out with a big sub sandwich and he was like singing the praises of Matt Nagy. Oh, yeah, by the way, he's gone. We hired this guy back because he needs to come home. Because, yeah, you're good. But you guys should hire Matt Nagy. Matt Nagy's out there. Hire him. You guys should hire the guy.
- [41:50]
Dan Bernstein
That was a weird deal. Like, that was. That really came out like, Andy must have expected Matt to get hired, like, within days and then he could hire me. Like, that's, that was uncomfortable a little bit. I mean, I'm happy for Matt Nagy. That's a good job to be with Harbaugh and to get the young quarterback and you get the great receiver there. I'm interested to see how that goes. But yeah, I, I'm trying to think of their other last names of guys who have dads who coach, who got jobs that just get through the whole.
- [42:20]
Matt Abaticola
Didn't.
- [42:21]
Kevin Fishbane
Yeah. Surely did not get a job. Oh, but Jeff Hafley from Green Bay ends up down in Miami, which again some interesting defensive coaching. You know. You know, Dan had mentioned multiple times about what Seattle did with Mike McDonald and now you look at these coaches that especially the ones that either have young quarterbacks or don't really even have an established quarterback anymore, bringing in a defensive minded head coach and you kind of wonder, you know, is that really the route to go and they trying to copy what Seattle did. But you know, I just, I question the whole hiring of defensive guys without trying to figure out what your quarterback situation is either.
- [42:57]
Dan Bernstein
Well, Mike, we could be talking about Mike McDonald in five years. That he's just a unicorn. That this guy is just this brilliant, you know, defensive mind who has just hit the right buttons and we'll see what they look like without Clint Kubiak next year. But yeah, I mean I was. It was about halfway. That guy kind of had Caleb's number for three and a half quarters every time they played. It was the second half of the fourth quarter that things. But like the way the packers played Ben Johnson's offense for the first half of those games like was better than almost anybody in the league. I mean he really had a good sense of how to, how to manage that. But boy, the, the packers are strange with Bacha. You know, that was, that timing of that was very odd. I think it's interesting that La Flor stayed. I think it's the right move. I think Matt LaFleur is a good coach. I think Matt La Flor, if they fired him would have been hired in, you know, four days. But yeah, it was, I don't know in some ways when you took back and you look at the 10 names, you're like typical NFL coaching coach hiring
- [44:02]
Matt Abaticola
cycle as it will be next year where the entire bottom quarter of the league gets fired.
- [44:08]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah, I get the question. I mean what made this one the most interesting was because the, the Ravens and Steelers were available and like it's just like that was, you know, so I guess who's. I don't know who that team would be next year or, or in coming years.
- [44:23]
Matt Abaticola
Like there aren't enough tenured coaches to even come up with a comp.
- [44:27]
Dan Bernstein
I mean La Flor is actually. La Flor probably is. The Viking situation is really fascinating. I mean you talk about timing with that move at GM and Kevin OConnell and what's going on with them at quarterback and that's, that's, that's an interesting team. That is a team that like, you know, I think Kevin o' Connell is a bit of a darling and I'll sit there and be like, I couldn't believe that he didn't get the Bears job when you saw what he did in Minnesota. But the guy's there for quarterbacks and their quarterback wasn't very good this past year.
- [45:04]
Matt Abaticola
Well, Kevin, thank you for allotting all of this time for us today and I apologize if we have monopolized your Friday. But it's much appreciated and it's always nice being able to have a wide ranging conversation with someone as informed, informed and interesting as you are.
- [45:21]
Dan Bernstein
I appreciate, always enjoy coming out with you guys. And I just realized I went 40 minutes and didn't even say anything about Northwestern.
- [45:28]
Kevin Fishbane
Well, now you did.
- [45:32]
Matt Abaticola
Subject for another time, perhaps, considering the what was just the victory that was won by the ACLU a couple of days ago over some of these impositions against certain types of education on campuses. I will be remembering, I will have a list of the the schools, of course.
- [45:50]
Dan Bernstein
Dan's got to go that route about the school. Why can we talk about the big win over Maryland?
- [45:58]
Kevin Fishbane
You know better.
- [45:59]
Matt Abaticola
The schools that bent the knee.
- [46:01]
Dan Bernstein
Oh yeah.
- [46:03]
Matt Abaticola
Will be remembered. I want them to know that. I want your own.
- [46:06]
Kevin Fishbane
We'll save that for next.
- [46:07]
Dan Bernstein
No, they and they and they should and and you know that. I'm with you on that. But Dan, sometimes it's just about the sports team that you want to root.
- [46:15]
Matt Abaticola
Yay sports. Go sports team.
- [46:18]
Kevin Fishbane
Hooray.
- [46:18]
Matt Abaticola
Hooray for Sports.
- [46:20]
Dan Bernstein
Array the 18 and now 25 year olds that I'm going to root for.
- [46:23]
Matt Abaticola
Yes you are and you'll love it. But thank you.
- [46:26]
Kevin Fishbane
Thanks. We'll talk to you soon, buddy.
- [46:28]
Matt Abaticola
That's Kevin Fishbane of the Athletic and this has been Forward progress on 312Sports, a Chicago Bears and NFL podcast.
- [46:41]
Dan Bernstein
Forward Progress is stopped.
- [46:50]
Kevin Fishbane
Forward Progress, a Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312 Sports.
- [47:01]
Progressive Insurance Announcer
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- [47:22]
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Game day energy is real, whether it's celebrating with friends at a bar or cheering at a watch party. Most Yakima county young adults already know the winning play, scoring a sober ride home 94% of Yakima County Young adults don't drive impaired. Celebrating the big game is better when everyone gets home safely. Catch a ride, not a dui. Most drive sober. A message from safe Yakima Valley.