A (1:08)

2 19.

A (1:13)

Forward progress a Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abaticola on 312 sports.

C (1:23)

This is forward Progress, a Chicago Bears podcast. And it will be the Bears and the Browns. And there's no debate as to whether or not this is a must win game for the Bears. Of course it is, because you got a bad team coming in and your playoff odds go from like 80% down to 50% as far as the win versus the loss. So yeah, it's a must win and there's nothing wrong with saying that. It's going to be really cold.

A (1:50)

It's going to be cold. The Bears are facing a good defense though in the Cleveland Browns. Miles Garrett at 20 sacks, he's on pace to break that single season sack record. They're going to have to contend with him.

C (2:00)

And they don't allow passing yards. This, this Browns defense makes it really tough on a passing offense. So whatever they have in the DeAndre Swift, Kyle Manungai 2 headed running game, this is time to kind of lean on that and see if they've got their own pass rush. Let's Talk about this and more with Matt Miller of espn. He is on Twitter at NFL Draft Scout, always working on his projections and draft possibilities. The Bears right now about the here and now. Matt, I want to ask you about Shador Sanders. I want to know, I want you to give us everything that matters about how he plays. People know his name, but it doesn't mean they know his game. So what, what do we know about what he's become as an NFL quarterback?

B (2:47)

Yeah, I mean, honestly, he's a pocket rhythm passer. That's his game. And I think a lot of folks, they hear the last name and they think, Deion Sanders, son. And you're expecting Lamar Jackson. That's not his game. And at Colorado, he was able to extend the pocket. He would drift in the pocket and he's kind of fading, fading, waiting for something to open up downfield. Not dissimilar from how we talked about Caleb Williams, Mahomes, Aaron Rodgers, those guys. But not at that level of athleticism. He's doing it more based on timing. And they played a lot of backyard football at Colorado. So when the play breaks down, he's really good at finding that extra time. The problem is in the NFL, when you start to find that extra time, you start to go backward. And that's something a lot of young quarterbacks have to learn. And I still see that in his game is to buy that extra time. In the NFL, you want to be moving toward the line of scrimmage. Unless you're Patrick Mahomes or Lamar Jackson, where you have that elite athleticism and you can fade and then you have the arm strength to make those throws. Shador Sanders does not have elite arm strength. I've watched him throw in person, his arms good, not great. He's not really big. He's six' one, around 212 pounds. But in the NFL, and I think where we've seen him grow each week, guys, the timing and the rhythm, which is something that they didn't play a lot of time at Colorado. That's what I've been encouraged by is getting into Kevin Stefanski's offense, which is a lot of play action. It is a lot of based on, you know, quick read, get the ball out, let your guys make place of space. He's doing a really good job of that. Better than I anticipated coming from Colorado, where you never played on time because you're basically calling your own plays because your dad's the head coach. And it's like, all right, I'm going to find Travis Hunter, I'm going to find Jimmy Horn. We're going to play a little bit of backyard football to some degree. So to see him play within structure is really encouraging.

C (4:29)

So you're telling me as if I'm a Bears defensive mind here. If I'm Dennis Allen, I'm in zone. Go ahead. If you, if you love the off schedule stuff and you love the secondary play stuff, I am dropping to landmarks. I am keeping my eyes on you and I am making you be precise. On a difficult weather day, perhaps where players could be distracted or bothered or uncomfortable, I am making you execute and timing everything to whatever open spaces you can find.

B (5:03)

I'm sitting and waiting a lot. Like if you guys watch what the Texans did to the Chiefs, sit and wait, cover three, cover four, try to get home with four and sit and wait. Because especially with Shador, if it is going to be a cold, windy day and everybody's like, oh, he played at Colorado. The season's over by Thanksgiving. I was in Colorado on Thanksgiving. It wasn't cold. Okay, so let's throw out the narrative that he's played a lot of cold games. He has. This is a kid from, from Texas. If it's a cold, windy day, I do think you can look at a situation where you could sit, wait. Some of those passes might flutter, especially if he is forced to move off his spot. What they do really well in Cleveland is, you know, underneath routes, breaking routes. They're going to get him comfortable early with some of the short passes, but I would think you could sit back and feast a little bit, especially your safeties and linebackers, because of those underneath routes. You know, they are not, they're not throwing the ball very deep in Cleveland this season. So I would, I would anticipate, you know, an umbrella of coverage that you can just, you know, hopefully for Bears fans, kind of sit back and pick your spot close on the ball. Rookie quarterbacks, no matter how great they are, all struggle with that timing of. Everyone in the NFL runs a 43 in the secondary. Basically, you know, that closing speed is crazy fast. And we see it from, you know, Patrick Mahomes and Jalen Hurts combined for seven interceptions on Sunday. Even the great ones sometimes underestimate the speed that these defensive backs play on the ball.

A (6:22)

I'm sure the NFL execs, Matt, are loving what's happening, especially in the NFC right now. The Bears lose to Green Bay and Lambeau. They go from one to seven in the playoff picture. Green Bay jumps up from seven to two. Now this weekend, Green Bay is at Denver. The Lions are at the Rams. The Bears hosting the Browns. The Bears win the packers lo they trade spots. They go from two to seven again. So I'm sure the NFL loves what's happening with the parody and all the fragility of what's happening in the playoff picture. What did you take away from the Bears packers game? Caleb Williams at Lambeau Field.

B (6:57)

You know, I. Honestly, I thought the Bears were going to win. Especially I was watching that game somewhat closely. You know, I was. I was paying attention to it as I was, you know, watching other games, but that I knew I'd be talking to you guys. So I kind of wanted to. To watch it a little more closely. I. I did think, like, okay, like, the Bears are going to pull this out. And I think when things get messy is still. When Caleb's at his best, like, that's still what you want. You know, I would love to see them open up offense a little bit more because I do think it's still. You're not taking as many shots as you would want to. And I. I think some of that goes back to what we talked about last week. It goes back to youth to some degree. It goes back to reliability of the pass catchers. Also, Green Bay's defense is really good. Jeff Happley is a very good defensive coordinator. That is a. That is a good team. And I think sometimes we're so quick to, you know, like, throw our own team under the bus instead of thinking, like, wait, the other. Maybe the other team's just really good. I think Green Bay's defense is actually just really good this year. So the fact that you were in the game, I think says a lot.

C (7:55)

I.

B (7:56)

It wasn't Caleb's best day, let's be honest. And I do think that he kept them in the game while also holding them back at times. And, you know, we're going to have this conversation about a lot of NFL quarterbacks this off season. Guys, if wide receiver rooms that we think are really good, that actually aren't. And I. I think Chicago is gonna be one of those teams where you have to have that conversation of, are we properly developing Luther Burden? Are we using these guys correctly? You know, DJ Moore, what. What do you have one catch for? Minus yards, you know, so it's like getting Ben Johnson his guys. I would think Chicago would be a team. Juan Jennings from the 49ers is going to be a free agent. And when I look at him, I'm like, that could be your Almond Ross, Sam Brown. That could Be your guy that just goes and makes dirty plays. He's a bully. He's going to get you those short yardage that turn into yak opportunities right now. And I blame Kansas City for this to some degree. Everybody wants speed everywhere. I mean, your receivers are like 5, 10, 180 pounds. What happened to the days of the Mike Evans and the Alshon Jeffries? You know, the guys that you're like, you know what we need six yards. He can run a bang, eight. And no one's going to be able to stop him because he can box out. The Bears don't really have that right now. They don't. They don't.

C (9:05)

Well, they do. They do in Loveland.

B (9:07)

Loveland. I was about to say Loveland could become that guy, but like, you know that. That threat on the outside, that can be a bully for you. And maybe it becomes Loveland because, you know, he is. He's just a big wide receiver, basically. But so I'm. I'm not as quick to just blame everything on Caleb. I thought the run game looked really good. You know, Green Bay is a good team, and I think there were still encouraging signs from, from what he was able to do.

C (9:31)

Let me combine a couple things that I heard from you. One is this idea of the Bears sitting and waiting and rallying to the ball on some of the crossing routes they're going to get. The other is talking about Jeff Halfley and why his defense is so good. And it's something that I brought up in the post game. Tackling, tackling, tackling, tackling. The Bears were bad at it and Green Bay was good at it. And we can talk all we want about umbrella coverages and landmarks and everything else, but ultimately there's a guy in front of you, can you get him on the damn ground? And the Bears have not a lot of this. Having Tremaine Edmonds out, having TJ Edwards out has hurt them. I do think it's also why DeMarco Jackson has taken Noah Sewell's job, because of missed tackles. We saw the snap counts change there because Sewell has had too many sort of visible, high profile missed tackles. When you scout defensive players, are some guys better at it? Is it a skill that you think NFL teams, even though they don't really practice as much anymore, can tackling be improved? Do you have, like, I watch the Texans, they also. They tackle.

B (10:41)

Yeah.

C (10:41)

And what separates the teams that are good at it from the teams that aren't? Is it. Is it talent? Is it coaching? How do you look at It.

B (10:48)

I think it's mentality, and I think some of that goes from how you build your team is the Texans under D. Ryan's. Those are tough SOBs and they, they scout and draft that way. I guarantee you, when you watch the Patriots play, you're going to see the same stuff, because Mike Vrabel is not going to put guys out there that won't tackle and make plays. And, you know, Jim Harbaugh's teams are always super physical. Good tackling teams play through the whistle, right? The echo of the whistle, basically. So I think that is a mentality thing. Yes, it could be improved, but you need, I think, strong leadership and maybe that is, you know, having, you know, linebackers who are injured, maybe that's a big part of it. But setting that tone within the locker room of, we are going to be physical, we are going to be hitters, we are going to impose our will on this offense. I do think it is a mentality and, you know, you have to do it in this era of player safety to where you're, you know, doing it the right way. But I, I absolutely think that there is a way to improve the, I don't know, consistency of your defense just by the mentality of the kind of guys you're going to draft. You know, we. When I first got started in this business, we used to joke about, like, you kind of want your middle linebacker to be a little unhinged like you. You need a guy who's gonna be okay wrecking his body 40 or 45 times a game. Like, that's probably not going to be your road scholar. You know, you need someone who can put that away for a second and just run into a brick wall 45 times. I still think, like, you need a little bit of that mentality of guys who are willing to sacrifice, who are mentally tough, but also smart enough to, you know, process and diagnose. Because the game is so fast, with motions pre and post snap and how much movement there is. I mean, you guys see that weekly with, with Ben's offense. So to improve your tackling, I think you look in the college ranks and say, like, okay, this is, you know, watch Jacob Rodriguez at Texas Tech. That's like, that's what you want, right? Is someone who can tackle like that and make plays like that. And then I think that that attitude becomes kind of infectious.

A (12:44)

You know, last week when we talked, there was a speculation about the College Football Playoff bracket. Now we have the actual bracket out. We have winners from championship games, and the 12 teams are set. What's your take on how the committee paired up the teams and have the top 12?

B (13:00)

Can I be honest and say that I'm. I'm, like, not really looking forward to a lot of these games. And I know that's awful of me, and I'm.

C (13:07)

But it's not awful, okay? You know, it's.

B (13:09)

I mean, you have to worry about Madison versus Oregon. This is not March Madness. And I. I gotta hope, Jam, you win so this can get clipped that I can.

A (13:18)

So you don't think Tulane and Ole Miss is gonna be a good game now.

C (13:21)

Now, just so you know, like, too late. My. My kid transferred to Tulane. He. He was.

B (13:25)

I love Tulane.

C (13:26)

He was on the field celebrating the conference win over North Texas. And they want to win over Ole Miss just so they can have a home game against Georgia. But everybody at Tulane knows that Georgia would beat him 100 to nothing.

B (13:42)

This is like when SMU went to Penn State, and in pre games, the SMU kids are like, out there shirtless and it's like 20 degrees, you know, State College. And it's like Penn State wiped the floor with them because that's what happens in these games. So, you know, I'm going to root for jmu. I'm going to root for Tulane. But, yeah, I think this would be better if it was Notre Dame and pick your school. You know, I would say, I mean, throw Texas in there. Throw whomever, right?

A (14:08)

Byu, Vanderbilt.

B (14:10)

Vanderbilt, Absolutely. It would be better with any of those schools. And I understand what they're trying to do. They're trying to say, we're going to take the. You got to put qualifiers in, like, okay, you won your conference, you're going to be in. I really wish it was to the point of, like, we're just going to take the 12 best teams based on record strength of schedule and the eye test, and we want the 12 best teams to play because that's what people want. Like, in basketball, you can have that Cinderella story of five seniors beating five freshmen because they've been playing together for four years. Happens every year. I. I do not foresee a situation in which we're watching James Madison against Texas Tech on New Year's Day.

C (14:48)

I just.

B (14:48)

I don't. I don't see it. And I don't. I don't know that a lot of people are going to tune in for that one. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would guess the majority of folks probably can't name a single player from James Madison. And you would think that, like, that would probably be a little bit better if it was Vanderbilt with Diego Pavia potentially being a Heisman Trophy winner. Or BYU or Notre Dame, one of these teams that played a much tougher schedule to get here.

C (15:13)

I just want to send Diego Pavia's drunken brothers wherever they go. I don't care what game it is, but I want Roel and Javier Pavia told, hey, this is the team you're rooting for. It's not Vanderbilt today. You can pick a team. It can be James Madison, it can be whoever. Lane, sure. Well, they don't need him. They've got enough dress just they here, fill them full of four loco and wind them up and just send them off.

B (15:39)

I missed all that because it happened post game. I guess. I just saw photos on social media the next day.

A (15:46)

I wouldn't say that you missed much, Matt. I think you just probably didn't hear about it. Hey, do you have a Heisman vote? I can't remember if you do.

B (15:53)

I do not.

A (15:53)

Which you do not. Okay.

B (15:55)

I kind of get up like my feelings get hurt every year but.

A (15:59)

Well, you should have one so it's a shame that you don't. But looking at the candidates right now, who wins the Heisman? And listen, I want to just preface this. I fell in love with Diego Pavia because of the Netflix documentary Any given Saturday. I saw this kid and I'm like, great. So I watched every Vanderbilt game this year and it's the most football I've watched in a college football season. I'm not naive about what the kids skills are beyond college. I know he's going to the Senior bowl. He's a Heisman candidate. First of all, who do you think is going to win the Heisman? Who should win the Heisman and what can Diego do past college? Because I don't know if it's, if it's professional football.

B (16:35)

So who will win? I think Fernando Mendoza wins because people have very short attention spans. And he threw that back shoulder fade against Ohio State and the entire world was watching. I think a lot of people handed their votes in at that moment. I would vote for Jeremiah Love. And some of this is me being tired of pick the quarterback for the number one team in the country. And I know last year was an anomaly with Travis Hunter, but most years it's the quarterback from the best team in the country. Right. I'm just so over that. And I think Jeremiah's amazing. I released my top 50 big board last week. He's my number one player for the 2026 draft. I think he's everything you want to run.

C (17:10)

Really?

A (17:10)

That's awesome.

B (17:11)

Dan. He's a, he is a bigger, stronger Reggie Bush. I mean he has multiple runs of over 95 yards for a touchdown.

C (17:18)

Do you have him rated higher than you had Bijan Robinson?

B (17:21)

Yes. Yep. Okay, so he's like. I think he's, I think he's. I mean you don't want to ever say can't miss because situation matters so much, but he is everything you could ever want in a running back prospect.

A (17:33)

Well, Matt, my 12 year old son's going to love to hear that because we were talking Heisman the other day and about Diego Pavia and he said Jeremiah Love should win it and is the best in college.

C (17:41)

Different things though. The Heisman is different.

A (17:43)

I know, I know, I know. But it's just coming from a 12.

B (17:45)

Year old kid like the, I think he also had like the most outstanding season and it's wild and maybe because you guys are in Chicago, it doesn't feel this way. Living in Missouri, it feels like Jeremiah Love didn't get talked about all year and he rushed for 1300 yards and 18 touchdowns.

C (17:59)

Has he been hurrying?

B (18:00)

No one talked about it.

C (18:01)

Has he had a serious injury yet?

B (18:02)

He had an ankle injury last year in the playoffs, but that's it.

A (18:06)

But.

C (18:06)

So he's never had, he doesn't have a reconstructed knee. He hasn't had it. Okay.

B (18:10)

Not that I know of because I always wonder about years he's been unstoppable.

A (18:14)

I always wonder about what as far.

C (18:15)

As just in general like somebody like that, especially a running back. Like what are you after your first major injury? Because that's usually defining the, the length and quality of your NFL career.

B (18:27)

Yeah, Ankle last year and was slow starting this year and I do think that hurt him a little bit. Like against Miami week one, he, he didn't play very well and then he kind of got going like against A M the week or two weeks after that. He had a really good game but it was slow building. But then at USC he went off for like 225and, and was unstoppable.

A (18:46)

What's, what's popular going to do after.

B (18:48)

After college he'll go to the Senior Bowl. I don't know that he has the physical traits to be an NFL quarterback, but I didn't think Dylan Gabriel did either and he got drafted in the third round. So I always like to hedge and say there are 32 general managers who have 32 different set of priorities and preferences. You know, I think Pavia's athleticism, his toughness, his attitude will get him a shot. It should probably be more in the sixth or seventh round instead of the third like Dylan Gabriel was. But you know, the quarterback scouting really starts in January because like the game film is game film. But so much matters about iq, work ethic, attitude, personality, the, the things that we can't see just turning the TV on every Saturday.

C (19:32)

Matt Miller, thanks so much for doing this. Always just much appreciated and great to have you back in our football lives. And I know that the listeners of Forward Progress share that sentiment. So be well. Talk to you next week.

A (19:46)

All right, buddy. Talk to you next week. See.

C (19:47)

Yep, that is Matt Miller at NFL draft Scout on Twitter he of espn. Wow, Jeremiah, love that strong stuff, man. Still a running back. Still running back. Now next time I was going to ask him to when he was talking about the quarterbacks, the last two super bowl quarterbacks combining for seven turnovers. I want to ask him at some point, maybe with another week of data points about the what Jalen hurts is and isn't and what's going on with that Eagles offense. How much is Kevin Patullo? How much is Jalen hurts? Because it is ugly, ugly stuff.

A (20:24)

We were talking earlier today on DBU about field Yates. ESPN has his first mock draft out. He I'd want to find where he put Jeremiah Love. He had Jeremiah Love going 14 to the Kansas City Chiefs.

C (20:36)

Okay. That's about where I would think a running back, you know, even a really good running back would be.

A (20:41)

Yeah.

C (20:41)

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It's everything. Well, everything's expensive. Beef's insane. 50 is that you said 55 0.

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C (23:18)

Provide feedback that we've gotten from these discussions. And I can't give a name here. And this person wrote in as anonymous zebra. Okay? And I will tell you that this is an actual official with ties to the NFL who is actively involved in.

C (23:43)

Player instruction in the NFL. This official is somebody who does during whether it's practices. There are certain times a year when they say they're bringing in officials or they have officials to officiate practices to explain why certain things are called.

A (24:02)

This is a guy.

C (24:02)

This is a guy.

A (24:03)

So this is credible right here?

C (24:04)

Yes. Okay, there we go. This is credible. And this is. He says, as someone who has dedicated nearly half my life to being the best football official I can and someone who's worked on the field at every level of football in some capacity.

C (24:23)

I implore you guys do not rant about contact to the head or neck area of a quarterback being illegal. When you were talking about what Greg Olson said recently, he was correct about incidental contact made to the head of a sliding Caleb Williams. While a quarterback is defined, or more specifically a T formation, quarterback is defined in the NFL rulebook. It is not a designation that provides additional protection under the rules. Now, listen, the foul most commonly associated with quarterbacks is roughing the the passer that simply because they are the player that attempts the most passes and is therefore most often in a passing posture. Those protections apply to anyone on the offense who has the ball and is in a passing posture. It's an important distinction here. This is. It's not roughing the quarterback, it's roughing the passer. Roughing the passer. The second most common foul associated with quarterbacks is late hit or unnecessary roughness for forcible contact to the head or neck area where they're giving themselves up. But that's because they're the ones most often sliding. Those protections apply to any runner when giving themselves up.

C (25:51)

Both rules, roughing the passer and late hit unnecessary roughness on a sliding runner, require the contact to the head or neck area to be forcible. Now, he says, I'll acknowledge that there seems to be a philosophical difference in the NFL and other levels about how the word forcible is interpreted in regards to a player in passing posture and a runner giving themselves up. The threshold is simply much lower when a passer is in the pocket.

C (26:19)

I believe that to be because a player in a passing posture is generally relatively stationary in the pocket, that allows the defender more time to adjust their path and avoid unnecessary or incidental contact to the head and neck. Okay, that's reasonable standing right there.

A (26:37)

Very reasonable.

C (26:39)

He says. Even when a passer is outside the pocket, they generally have to slow at some point in order to set and deliver, giving defenders the same opportunity to slow down and exercise judgment. In contrast, a runner is moving at full speed until right up the point they abruptly give themselves up. Defenders have less time to adjust their path. Defenders are given more leeway in these cases.

C (27:08)

The language does read defender must pull up when a runner begins a slide or dive. It doesn't mean that all contact by a defender is illegal. If a defender has already committed himself and the contact's unavoidable, it is not a foul unless the defender makes forcible contact to the head or neck area of the runner. And he put this in bold with the helmet, shoulder or forearm. The play we were talking about when Caleb was got the knee, he got knee. Knee in the head. Yeah, that's. That's not included here.

C (27:41)

That was not forcible contact with the helmet, shoulder or forearm. And he says, while one may think I'm being pedantic or Refusing to acknowledge the NFL's a quarterback driven league. They have an interest in protecting the stars. There's real consequences when one of your meatball listeners walks away thinking they understand the rules and how they're applied when they don't.

C (28:03)

And then he talks about the officiating crisis and how many people are ranting at officials when they don't know the rules. And officials, these are just the rules. So he said, continue holding yourselves to a high standard. Love hearing you together. Thank you, Anonymous.

A (28:18)

It's great stuff. And so let me ask this question then. So, yeah, I admit to being wrong then when they slide and he got kneed in the head and I was, you know, bothered by it, fine, I was wrong. Better understanding of the rules, great. But I've also seen that these calls were roughing. The passer or contact made with the head is very subjective because I've seen guys get drilled in the head with no call and I've seen guys that barely get scraped by someone's fingertips while, you know, being blocked by a 300 pound lineman. And I see that get called.

C (28:51)

I think that may be when it comes to the passer and that contact, I think that falls under the judgment level. Just like holding does sometimes.

A (29:01)

Right? But, but the discrepancy of seeing a guy get drilled with no call and a guy barely getting touched and getting the call, that's, that's a big issue with that rule that I have because it's just, it's. There's too wide of a variance at times between what one guy sees and what one guy calls.

C (29:15)

I also wonder about the, that, that nebulous in between on the slide play that I don't understand either about how much time you're expected to have when a quarterback. They don't. You can understand when a quarterback looks like they're going to slide, but then a quarterback may not slide. I just think that there's some more in between there too. And I think technically you're not allowed to fake slide, right?

A (29:44)

No, and I don't. Have you ever seen a guy that pretended like he was sliding and not slide?

C (29:49)

You see a guy where it looks like it could reasonably interpret it as the beginning of a slide.

A (29:53)

Okay, I can't recall what, but there was one. There was an incident and it was either the Eagles or the Steelers game where Caleb slid and a guy landed on top of him and that just, that seemed like that wasn't incidental contact. So I just, I don't understand how that, how that happened.

C (30:08)

And listen, I Have no issues on top if it's not forcible and not with the helmet, shoulder or forearm.

A (30:15)

So just a guy landing on top of you can do that. I just. I don't get it. Then what's the point? What protection is there in sliding? There isn't any.

B (30:22)

Yeah.

A (30:22)

If a guy can land on top of you and he's not doing with his helmet first, which you shouldn't anyway, or his forearm or his shoulder pad, but just lands on top of you, I don't understand the point of giving you up. I listen and I want to say too, if our. If our guys listening. I have no issue with quarterbacks being hit. When Caleb was on the sideline and took a shot, I got no problem with that. You weren't out of bounds, dude. Get out of bounds if you don't want to get hit. I get that. So I have no issues with quarterbacks being hit. And I'm not just saying, oh, don't hit Caleb. You. You get outside the pocket, you're running, you deserve to get drilled. I just don't.

C (30:56)

You're a runner at that point.

A (30:56)

I don't understand then the whole giving yourself up. A guy can still land on top of you as long he doesn't do it with these particular body parts.

C (31:02)

Because equipment. Well, because if the. He. The only way somebody could be allowed to land on top of you. And that's like the. To go exactly with how you phrased it.

A (31:12)

Yeah.

C (31:12)

And this does get.

A (31:13)

Because it was either Steelers or Eagles. I have to go back and look.

C (31:15)

This does get pedantic.

A (31:16)

And he got folded in half.

C (31:17)

That. That would mean that the tackler had. Was in the air at the time of the slide. That the judgment would be there's no possible way this person could change their trajectory already having launched. If the defender had a reasonable time to make a different decision is what has to be judged in that instant. And I think that's really hard to do. So here was a response to some of this stuff that we were talking about that I also thought should be part of this discussion. And this was sent in by Jason in East Peoria. And by the way, if you. If you have not gotten the app yet, the free 312 sports apps in the Apple App Store and Google Play, like I say, absolutely free. You should download it. So Jason said this after seeing Caleb Williams get hit over and over, giving himself up on a slide. I have a simple idea for a rules tweak. Okay, so listen closely here. If there is any contact with the quarterback after he slides, the defender initiates and the referees do not feel the contact constitutes a personal foul. The ball is spotted where the contact is made instead of where the quarterback starts his slide.

C (32:42)

Okay, so this is, this is his argument.

A (32:44)

Yeah.

C (32:44)

I think this has two benefits. First, it's fair. The point of the slide is supposed to be a trade off. The ball is spotted where the slide starts in exchange for the runner being protected from a hit. Now, he says quarterback here, but we know the rule does not say quarterback. The rule says runner.

A (33:03)

Right.

C (33:04)

If the quarterback gets hit and it is allowed. He wasn't being, it wasn't allowed to be protected from a hit. So the play should then be live retroactively to the spot where he did actually get hit. Second, it will further incentivize defenders to go out of their way to avoid that contact with someone sliding, which isn't happening enough with just the personal foul possibility. It would have a huge impact. Maybe a difference of 1 to 3 yards. Yeah, that is not a terrible idea.

A (33:39)

It's not a terrible idea, but I have a better one. Just get rid of it. That if you decide as the quarterback to leave the pocket and run with the ball, you're. You're fair game like any other.

C (33:47)

You are. That is the rule.

C (33:50)

Any runner can give himself up.

A (33:52)

Yeah, you can give yourself up. But like, if I like, have a guy take a shot with your shoulder pad and not give him a personal foul or a forearm. You want to, you want to give yourself up. You know, let them, let them get hit however they want without using your helmet as a weapon. I mean, you're, you're, you're, you know, you're a runner. You. Right. I mean, don't give yourself up. You want to give yourself up. Get out of bounds. I don't, like, I don't understand the whole idea of affording some protection when there's a lot of different variances to this rule and it's all subjective to begin with. Just take it out.

C (34:22)

Well, I mean, there are. It looks like Cole Comet tries to get down as much as that's his thing.

A (34:27)

I mean, he's. Yeah. Fall after catch guy.

C (34:29)

And who. When I was talking. Tyler Lockett. Tyler Lockett is another guy who's a fall down after the catch guy.

A (34:35)

Yeah.

C (34:35)

And apparently says he doesn't want to take extra hits. Like he's open about like he run after the catch. Yards after the catch. He's not interested.

A (34:41)

I don't want that guy.

C (34:43)

There are some videos of Cole Comet out there just falling Just catching and going down.

A (34:47)

Well, yeah.

C (34:48)

Last week. But like there's super cuts of it.

A (34:50)

Yeah.

C (34:51)

His whole career of like catching and covering up and falling down.

A (34:54)

Yeah. I just. I don't want the guy on my team. I want the guy to catch the ball and run.

C (34:57)

So I don't mind this. I don't know.

A (34:58)

I don't mind it.

C (35:00)

I don't think it should be like college where like you're down and that's it and you're still be down by contact and all that. But. And I don't want anybody headhunting on that play. I don't mind this idea.

A (35:10)

Yeah, that's fine.

C (35:11)

You're just pissed off by the whole thing.

A (35:14)

I'm not, I'm not pissed off by it, but I just, I just like. It's just again there's. There's too many variables to it and it's too subjective at times and I don't like the idea of trying to protect someone but like taking a knee to the helmet. You can't get hurt by taking a knee to the helmet.

C (35:27)

You can get. You get hurt by a lot of.

A (35:29)

Things in football and so I don't understand why that's not called again. When that happened to Caleb, he took a shot to the back of the head.

C (35:35)

Because it's not illegal.

A (35:38)

But I. So it's.

B (35:39)

It.

A (35:40)

But it shouldn't be allowed. That's the whole point. It should be illegal. Then if you're giving yourself. If it's accidental and you shouldn't take any hits of the head.

C (35:46)

But if it's. But, but you can. If it's not considered forcible with the helmet, shoulder or forearm. Guys get hit with knees all the time. I mean, it's football.

A (35:58)

Well, I mean if you're going to have this rule where you give yourself up, it should either be no contact or allow any contact because it's too hard to decipher in the middle.

C (36:07)

It's too hard. Then you're going to have some guys really wailing on people.

A (36:12)

Right. Then don't slide. Don't give yourself up and don't run. I'm fine with that. It's fucking football. You don't want to get hit, man. Don't run with the fucking ball, you know, or it's. Or either everything's fair game or allow some protections and actually enforce them. I love the email, though. That's great information from Anonymous Zebra. I appreciate that very much.

C (36:33)

Yeah, that stuff. Yeah.

A (36:34)

Very, very good.

C (36:35)

Thank you for a forward progress lister. We might have to we should probably send him some. Something for.

A (36:40)

Well, I think what we should do. And here, if you're listening, Anonymous zebra, how would you be open? So we like we just had Matt Miller on. He was in the middle of our screen here. We could have you on as a guest, have the screen blacked out and we could alter your voice.

C (36:51)

Oh no, he could be like our Mike Pereira.

A (36:54)

Right, but, but what's the guy's name? But he'll be anonymous though.

C (36:57)

What is he like Larry Yurt. Who's the guy? Russell Yerk.

A (37:00)

No, who's the. My, my old Italian lookalike? Gene Steretor.

C (37:04)

Gene Steretor.

A (37:05)

Yeah. But we would black out and we would alter his voice. But he would be our officials expert.

C (37:11)

I think that's a good call.

A (37:14)

So think about that. Anonymous zebra. I'd love to do it one time.

C (37:17)

Should I send him an email back?

A (37:18)

Yeah, we'll kill your camera. We'll alter your voice.

C (37:22)

Oh, and we.

A (37:23)

No, no, he'd be our rules official.

C (37:24)

No, he has to be on camera. But we do the cat filter on him.

C (37:29)

We make him a cat.

A (37:31)

I'm actually. I like that better.

C (37:33)

So it would be our official who happens to be this adorable cat.

A (37:37)

Or can we do it? What can we do? He's an official. Our official Ford Progress official. How about the official ostrich? We do like an ostrich filter.

C (37:46)

Do they have one?

A (37:47)

I don't know. We could make one.

C (37:48)

We can't make an ostrich.

A (37:50)

Oh, how about an octopus? Our official octopus. Yeah. No. Okay, we can do cat. Cat's fine.

C (37:58)

Adorable.

A (37:58)

Or how about we do one of those like face filters that alters it a little bit. So. Yeah.

B (38:03)

Right.

A (38:03)

You can still kind of see it's him, but me is like a giant four foot nose.

C (38:06)

No, I like adorable rules cat.

A (38:08)

Okay. Adorable rules cat. Fine. I'm down with that. All right, think about it. Anonymous zebra, if you want to do it with us, I would love to do that. All right, so we have like when there's questions following a game, you can. Come on. You can join us on Ford Progress on Monday or Tuesday. We can play the play and then we can.

C (38:25)

And then we can go to our adorable rules cat who has these thoughts for some information.

A (38:31)

Sounds good as a reminder too. We didn't tell you. We did tell you. Maybe you didn't hear it. You weren't listening. Which then why are you listening? You're not listening. Matt Miller will join us every Wednesday on Forward Progress throughout the rest of the football season. Very excited to have that. Very excited to have Matt join us.

C (38:45)

Yeah. Because his, his way of looking at the game. But always said this because he's in that crossover area between watching a ton of college. Yeah. Watching a ton of pro, translating one to the other. He sees a lot of trends that way. Yeah, he really does. And that's where you're on the vanguard of like the bleeding edge of what teams are looking for, why they're looking for a certain kind of player to do a certain thing. It's a really good way of understanding this is how coaches and teams are looking at the game now when you start to see the talents that they're prioritizing. Like he was telling us today about all these speedy wide receivers. Like I, I would say, and I said this before, this idea of that target, that big strong post up target, that is Colston Love.

A (39:31)

It is Colson Lovell.

C (39:32)

I think so. I think that that's like when you see the Jimmy Graham.

A (39:36)

But he's also a guy though, that has I think the longest touchdown reception for the Bears this year.

C (39:40)

And people are bouncing off of him. Right. Yeah.

A (39:41)

The Bengals were like not going to touch. You can't touch this.

C (39:45)

Well, you could. We just fell down after you touched.

A (39:47)

Yeah. Well, no, that's Cole Comet.

C (39:49)

No, he falls down.

A (39:50)

Your offensive lineman that you want to draft. Yeah, he falls down in space.

C (39:55)

The Oregon guy. I still think he's good. What's his name again?

A (39:57)

Lackey? Arkie? Harky. What's his name? It's his last name. Arky or Harky or Harky Harkey.

C (40:06)

Because I pictured Mike Harkey, James Harkey, something like Mike Harkey. No, his last name is Pitcher. His last name is Harky.

B (40:11)

Okay.

C (40:11)

And I still think he's good. Even if he has a tendency to.

A (40:14)

Fall down in space.

C (40:15)

Fall down in space.

A (40:17)

Right. Send him up in a rocket and he falls down.

C (40:19)

Damn it. We should have read the scouting report.

B (40:22)

Where is he? I don't know.

A (40:22)

He's in space.

C (40:23)

I don't know where he went. He's over there somewhere.

A (40:25)

He's with Elon. A rocket.

C (40:28)

It's like Matt Damon and the Martian.

A (40:31)

It was a good movie.

C (40:32)

I love that movie.

A (40:33)

It's on. It's floating around now in streaming stuff. I keep seeing it pop up.

C (40:36)

The music is great.

A (40:38)

Okay.

C (40:40)

You don't think so?

A (40:41)

No, I don't remember the music.

C (40:42)

Like Waterloo and Starman by Bowie. There's all kinds of stuff.

B (40:47)

Oh yeah.

A (40:48)

But it just, it's all like space related. It's pretty clever.

C (40:52)

Waterloo?

A (40:53)

Yeah, Waterloo. It's a planet.

C (40:55)

It's space related. Really?

A (40:57)

Yep. Okay, look it up.

C (40:59)

All right, that's gonna do it for forward progress.

A (41:03)

Waterloo.

C (41:04)

Where Napoleon died, he met his Waterloo. And it was the actual Waterloo.

A (41:09)

Yeah, I met my Waterloo. In the fridge. It's a ruby red grapefruit.

C (41:14)

Is that the Guy Fieri one?

A (41:16)

No, that's.

C (41:16)

No.

A (41:17)

You know, come on, get this right. Guy Fierty's got the habanero one. Mango habanero, the Italian iced lemonade.

C (41:24)

That's what I had. The Italian ice lemonade.

A (41:26)

And then the, like, the huckleberry cobbler.

C (41:28)

The Italian.

A (41:29)

I'll be your huckleberry.

C (41:30)

That's what you.

A (41:31)

Oh. Did you see what happened to Guy Fieri?

C (41:32)

No.

A (41:33)

He broke his leg.

A (41:35)

He fell down some stairs while filming one of his shows.

C (41:38)

No.

A (41:38)

Yeah. He got hurt real bad.

C (41:40)

We're here on Triple D. I'm here in Flagstaff, Arizona.

A (41:45)

Why is he on Hillbilly all of a sud?

C (41:47)

Because he does that. He affects that. We're in Flagstaff area.

A (41:50)

He's a California guy. He sustained a serious leg injury. Blah, blah, blah. A wheelchair, for at least eight weeks.

C (41:58)

What?

A (41:58)

Yeah. He was rushed to the hospital, underwent surgery. Fans are praying for his quick recovery. November 24th. During an interview, Guy Fieri told Fox News about his recent accident that led to his leg injury. I slipped down a set of steps. One foot went forward. The other foot got caught on the threshold, so, you know, it extended me out. I looked like I was probably doing the splits, but right when my right leg compressed into itself. The giveaway point. The doctor said it's never been seen in 20 years.

C (42:26)

Okay.

A (42:26)

Hasn't been the.

C (42:27)

Ouch. Now he's got to do the show in the wheelchair.

A (42:31)

The doctor says he hasn't seen a tear in the biggest, thickest part of the quad ever. He just tore his quad in half.

C (42:39)

Ow. Yeah. Well, that's gotta hurt.

A (42:43)

Normally you tear the muscle at your tendon or the tendon tears off the bone, but this was right in the center of the whole quad muscle. It exploded.

C (42:50)

That's just killer. I think I'd put some garlic sauce. Oh, you need to put donkey sauce on donkey sauce.

A (42:55)

Marinate it in donkey sauce.

C (42:56)

He's got to do the Dave Grohl. Like, didn't Dave Grohl break his leg and he still did concerts? Like sitting in a throne. Remember that? Yeah, the Foo Fighters had a Foo Fighters. The Foo Fighters. They had the big concert, and he and Dave Grohl did the concert sitting in these increasingly rococo chairs that were designed for him. Well, I mean, these ornate chairs, and.

A (43:25)

I know you, you know, but they should be. They should be like Guy Fieri hosting a show.

C (43:29)

No, you carry him in on a. Carry him in on a palanquin. Is that how you pronounce it?

A (43:33)

No, that's a pallet. Like from Sam's club.

C (43:35)

No. P A L, A N, Q, U, I, N. Palanquin.

A (43:40)

I think that's a name of a Star wars character.

C (43:42)

No, it's the thing that you like. The porters underneath each have part of it and they're carrying you on a chair on the platform.

A (43:51)

That's a Jewish tradition at weddings. Dan, you're getting it all wrong. How is it your brain is not right today?

C (43:56)

How is it pronounced?

A (43:59)

Palpadine is who you're thinking.

C (44:00)

No.

A (44:00)

Wasn't he a senator or emperor?

C (44:02)

Palanquin. A palanquin.

A (44:05)

No, that's the comedian duo.

C (44:06)

A covered litter, often ornate, carried by several people using poles resting on their shoulders.

A (44:12)

Ryan.

C (44:13)

Poles for transporting a single person in comfort, like a sedan chair. Luxury transport for royalty officials or the wealthy.

A (44:21)

A sedan chair.

C (44:22)

P A L, A, N, Q, U, I, N. Yes.

A (44:25)

What's your point now with this?

C (44:26)

I don't know. I forgot.

B (44:27)

Okay.

C (44:28)

I didn't really have one.

A (44:28)

Senator Palpadine.

C (44:30)

That's Forward Progress, a Chicago Bears podcast on 312Sports. 10, 2 19, 2 19.

A (44:42)

Forward progress, a Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312 Sports.