← Forward Progress - A Chicago Bears Podcast
Forward Progress - A Chicago Bears Podcast
Matt Miller - ESPN NFL Draft Analyst / NFL insider
00:44:40
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- [00:01]
Dan Bernstein
Guys, thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree. Zoe, this thing weighs a ton.
- [00:04]
Matt Miller
Drew Ski, lift with your legs, man.
- [00:06]
Martha Stewart
Santa.
- [00:07]
Matt Abaticola
Santa, did you get my letter?
- [00:08]
Dan Bernstein
He's talking to you britches. I'm not.
- [00:10]
Matt Miller
Of course he did.
- [00:12]
Dan Bernstein
Right, Santa, you know my elf Drew Ski here.
- [00:14]
Matt Miller
He handles the nice list.
- [00:16]
Dan Bernstein
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- [00:31]
Matt Abaticola
So you can keep your old phone.
- [00:32]
Matt Miller
Or give it as a gift.
- [00:33]
Matt Abaticola
And the best part, you can make the switch to T mobile from your phone in just 15 minutes.
- [00:37]
Matt Miller
Nice.
- [00:38]
Dan Bernstein
My side of the tree is slipping.
- [00:39]
Matt Miller
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- [00:43]
Dan Bernstein
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- [00:47]
Matt Miller
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- [00:51]
Matt Abaticola
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- [00:52]
Dan Bernstein
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- [00:53]
Matt Miller
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- [00:54]
Dan Bernstein
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- [00:56]
Matt Abaticola
In a new line, $100 plus a.
- [00:57]
Dan Bernstein
Month plan without our PayPal taxes and fees required. Check out 15 minutes or less per line.
- [01:00]
Martha Stewart
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- [02:37]
Dan Bernstein
I mean, if you're a Bears fan, you're thinking forward Progress. Come on. Forward Progress a Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abaticola on 312 Sports.
- [02:59]
Matt Abaticola
We give you forward progress here on 312 Sports. Bernstein Abatacola talking all things Chicago Bears as they get ready for the biggest game we have had around here in a long, long time. The Bears and the Packers Saturday night for what looks like will be the decider for the NFC North. Unless a lot of other things go weird, this one will put the winner in the proverbial driver's seat.
- [03:27]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah. And Dan, despite all the efforts of the organization to take all the excitement away, all the fun away, all the anticipation away of this game, we are still going to bring you all the excitement, all the anticipation here on forward progress on 312Sports. And then following that Bears packers game, we will be live as always with our post game show regardless of the income, the outcome, knowing that the income too that we all get but the outcome of that game and you know, hey, we, we know that our Bears are going to put on a, put up a fight, not let the packers off the hook this weekend, Dan and.
- [04:03]
Matt Abaticola
Joining us as he does weekly is Matt Miller, our friend from ESPN. He is on Twitter @nfldraft. Scout Matt, how are you, man?
- [04:15]
Matt Miller
Doing well, I'm excited for this weekend. I, I cleared my schedule. Bears, Packers. I don't think I've ever told you this. My 12 year old is a Packers fan. He went to Green Bay with me for the draft and fell in love with the people and he got to meet Josh Jacobs and so now he's like, I'm a Packers fan. So I have been giving him all week about this game. So I am very ready.
- [04:36]
Dan Bernstein
And you're, I mean, overall, you're a Chiefs fan, right?
- [04:39]
Matt Miller
No. So that's the misconception because I live south of Kansas City. I grew up a Niners fan. You know, like when I would come home from church on Sundays with, you know, my three brothers, they would turn Fox on and we would, it would be like Cowboys, Niners. It feels like every Sunday of my childhood. And I wanted to be different than everyone I was growing up around who were Chiefs fans. You know, in the early 90s, being a Chiefs fan wasn't the coolest thing in the world, but being a Niners fan, like they won every year. So I jumped on that bandwagon in like 1990 and, and wrote it for a very long time.
- [05:12]
Matt Abaticola
Hearing, hearing Don Crickey and Bob Trumpy on NBC describing Bill Kenny Or Livingston throwing to Carlos Carson.
- [05:23]
Dan Bernstein
That, that old.
- [05:24]
Matt Miller
That didn't get going.
- [05:26]
Dan Bernstein
He's younger than we are.
- [05:27]
Matt Miller
Like was the quarterback when I was a kid. Bono, Joe Montana.
- [05:33]
Matt Abaticola
Yeah, Joe Montana.
- [05:34]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah.
- [05:35]
Matt Miller
So then cast off, went to the.
- [05:37]
Dan Bernstein
Chiefs next week when the Bears and Niners play, then this is going to be like having, you know, someone from the other side of the.
- [05:44]
Matt Miller
Yeah.
- [05:44]
Dan Bernstein
Of the war is going to be here for us. So we'll go behind enemy lines next week as we talk. Bears, Niners.
- [05:50]
Matt Miller
I love that you've looked that far ahead in the schedule. I'm like a, I'm one of those old school guys. Like, I don't know who's playing until the day the game is on. Except for this week, because Packers, Bears is pretty big.
- [05:59]
Matt Abaticola
You know, what I need you to do is help me. I've had so many people this week already just in casual conversations, ask about what it means that Micah Parsons isn't there and where the culture of the NFL is always, well, next man up, it's just one player. It's just one game. And I've been going out of my way to. Without getting too X and O based. Just explain how. No, this is not next man up. This, this is such an impactful individual talent and player that it fundamentally alters the entire offensive game plan. How would you explain it to somebody with a, with a basic football knowledge, but somebody to, to really understand the significance of his absence?
- [06:54]
Matt Miller
I mean, I think he's one of the. Take the quarterbacks away. He's one of the five most impactful players in the NFL. And I think Miles Garrett is up there. Right. I, I think you would put him in that similar conversation. You know, and even like offensively this year, there's Jonathan Taylor and Christian McCaffrey are fantastic. They're game changers. But when you look at the defensive line, it's. I think it's Miles Garrett and Micah Parsons.
- [07:15]
Martha Stewart
So.
- [07:15]
Matt Miller
And it's, you know, a lot of people are going to hear us say this and they're immediately, they're going to Google it and they're going to look at his stats and say, well, he only has this many sacks. It's not about that. And one of my favorite things that true media, where we get our stats from for espn, they actually count sacks created. So how many sacks do you create with your pressures, with your hurries, with your first step quickness, like all these different things that you can do? And that's where, like, that's where he excels in so many ways. It's not just his sacks and his pressures, but it's what he allows the people around him to do. It's what Rashan Gary can do. It's what Lucas Van Ness can do. It's, it's that, that total package of the way he changes how an offense has to account for him. You're lining up every play and saying okay, where is he? And adjusting based off that. And there are very few guys in the NFL that truly get that type of attention. So for Chicago should give you like a sigh of relief. Like, okay, you know, we left tackle for Chicago has been probably the weak link of that offensive line. You would say so to know that, okay, we, we can, you know, do more of a true 5 on 4 protection instead of okay, we've got to, we got to double that guy and now we've got to worry about Rashan Gary over here. It allows you to spread your protection so much better.
- [08:27]
Matt Abaticola
And the way I've tried to explain it too is when in pre snap, when with when all the pointing and all the talking and all of the mic point and saying this guy might come and this guy might not, where, when Parsons is there, the protection shifts, the chipping, the whatever help, however long a tight end would stay in before getting out there, everything is still based on where Parsons is and when it's not, it automatically just takes so much stress off of an offensive line and the communication that is going to be necessary whether or not they, they kill up a play to the, or can a play to the second option. A lot of that is Parsons based and now it's not.
- [09:16]
Matt Miller
Absolutely. And he's so versatile that it's not one of those situations where you just, you Caleb goes through the line of scrimmage points at Micah Parsons like okay, one's right there. Because he is so versatile. There's gonna be times he's gonna, he's gonna be in the A gap. He's going to be all over the place. So even sliding that protection to him can be really difficult because of the way that he's so impactful on delayed blitzes and delayed pressures and that he is athletic enough to spy people. Let's not remember he's, he's not far removed from being a true stand up linebacker at Penn State. And even that first year in Dallas his rookie season, he was, he was kind of more of a hybrid player. So I think that also makes him one of the toughest defenders in the NFL to account for because like I think Miles Garrett is the best defensive player in the NFL. I don't know that that's controversial. You know what he's going to do? He's going to line up and he's going to go get the quarterback. With guys like Micah, it is a little bit different because you have to account for him so many different ways.
- [10:09]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah, it's interesting looking at the packers last year, the packers with Micah Parsons this year, they actually, they, they blitz more this year with Micah Parsons. And then you have that ability with his athleticism, like you mentioned, being a stand up linebacker, he can drop back into coverage and they do that a lot. So it's, it's not only just, okay, we have to account for him to not get out our quarterback, but you have to scheme different ways to see where he's going to be, when he's going to be, when he's going to drop in, when he's going to come in. So it's really interesting. And looking at the Bears and Packers game two games ago and then looking forward to Saturday night, what did you see in that first game that the Bears did well, that they, that should, that could translate again into Saturday night?
- [10:48]
Matt Miller
Well, the crazy thing is I think the Bears are a completely different team now than they were then. I think that's one. And I know it wasn't, it wasn't that long ago, but I think we've seen the run game become a lot better, you know, with, with Swift and Manangai. I mean, they're actually committing to running the ball and I think that's been one of the most encouraging signs has been that not only are they committing to running the ball, but they're getting more of that downfield movement. And I think in the game a couple weeks ago it was a close game, but it was Fairly low scoring. 28, 28, 21, I think. So I would say the commitment to the run game, but then also getting those chunk plays, you know, being able to take those runs that are okay, downhill zone. But now you're getting to the second level. Now you're getting into the secondary, you're challenging the safeties. Guys are starting to creep up to stop the run. That's opening up things over the top. So I think that is the big difference is Green Bay did a really, really good job 2, 3 weeks ago @ stopping those chunk plays. I don't know that the Bears had a single long run in that game, you know, where a guy's ripping one off and you're like, okay, that's, you know, there's a momentum builder now they're going to have to respect their own game a little bit more. I know they ran the ball a lot in terms of attempts, but the, the big plays weren't there. And I think we've seen in the last couple weeks those big plays are there. You've got guys going over 100 yards each in some weeks. So I would think that that bodes well. And you know, Micah is a pass rusher, but he's also a very good run defender. And so having him out of the lineup, there is something that you can.
- [12:12]
Dan Bernstein
Attack. Yeah. And that, that first game two weeks ago, the Bears, their longest run was nine yards. Now, they did combine both running backs for 120 yards, 20 more than the packers average. They give up, but still no long runs, which we've seen as part of the Bears run run offense is being able to run the ball deep. What about Caleb's play? When you look at that first half to the second half, how he performed, what did you see there? And what, what can Bears fans hope he brings into this game on.
- [12:40]
Matt Miller
Saturday? Yeah, I think with Caleb, like we've talked about the last couple weeks, is him just getting comfortable and getting that trust in his guys. You know, Luther Burton last week with the yards after catch plays, starting to see that chemistry and that connection.
- [12:53]
Matt Abaticola
Plays down burden in odun.
- [12:56]
Matt Miller
Yeah. Which is, is huge. This could be a Colston Loveland game. This could be, you know, this could be a lot of 12 personnel, which is fine. Maybe some 13 personnel in this one. You know, maybe you go LA Rams and you have 13 personnel and you're like, we're going to run the ball down your throat and when you creep up, we're going to throw it over the top to our tight ends and good luck stopping it. That might, that might be the move here, but I, hopefully the receivers are healthy. But that's what I've been encouraged by is I think Caleb getting comfortable. I mean, that throw last week to More. I mean, we talked about me growing up a Niners.
- [13:26]
Martha Stewart
Fan.
- [13:27]
Matt Miller
There's. There's shades of the catch with that one and I know it's the rounds.
- [13:30]
Matt Abaticola
But. No. Have you seen the frame by.
- [13:31]
Matt Miller
Frame? Yeah, it's.
- [13:33]
Matt Abaticola
Crazy. It's incredible. It's incredible because when someone, someone.
- [13:36]
Matt Miller
Was like, oh, that was like the catch. And I was like, don't, don't bring that around here. That's one of the most iconic plays in NFL history. And then I saw the frame by frame, it was like, oh, you.
- [13:45]
Dan Bernstein
Know what's really interesting, man, I'VE seen, I've seen that replay multiple times and it wasn't until like the fifth or sixth time watching it that that ball got tipped, which I didn't realize, so.
- [13:54]
Matt Miller
I didn't even realize.
- [13:55]
Dan Bernstein
That. Yeah, it was, it was tipped. And it wasn't until like a close up slow motion that I saw the first defender got his, got his fingertips up and it fluttered the ball. So the fact that it still made it there and that DJ was able to stay in, in the action and catch the ball was really.
- [14:09]
Matt Abaticola
Remarkable. It didn't just flutter it, it slowed it down slightly. You know, had that.
- [14:14]
Matt Miller
Thing. Crazy how that.
- [14:15]
Matt Abaticola
Works. Had it been, had it been unfettered, I'm not sure he's got the same play on it that just that late velocity loss allowed him to arrive there at the right time. So there, there was some good fortune involved.
- [14:30]
Matt Miller
There. Yeah, but that's like the catch. You know, the big thing with that play was, you know, always the talk of was Montana trying to throw it away or was he actually throwing it to the end zone? So it is, it is kind of funny how that all works.
- [14:44]
Matt Abaticola
Together. What do you think? You think he was trying to throw it.
- [14:47]
Matt Miller
Away? I think he was trying to throw it away, but I was, I was not even alive at that point. So I mean, you watch that playback and it's like, man, it looks like he's throwing it away. But you know what, I also will go to my grave saying Jerry Rice did not fumble against the Packers. So sometimes you just gotta immaculate reception, you.
- [15:04]
Dan Bernstein
Know? Yeah, maybe he was throwing it away because watching that replay a lot this past week, he first I didn't realize how, how he didn't really run well at all. And then he's about ready to get killed too. So maybe he was trying to throw that ball away and John Taylor.
- [15:15]
Matt Miller
Just came out of Caleb.
- [15:16]
Dan Bernstein
Wasn'T. Beautiful play by Caleb knew what he was doing because he didn't make that throw every.
- [15:20]
Matt Miller
Time. And that's like we were talking about, like what amazes me with Caleb is, and you watch guys in college and you wonder how much things will translate the way that his arm talent has translated. We see every year I see guys who think they're Aaron Rodgers or think they're Patrick Mahomes and they try that stuff and it's like, please stop. Caleb is one of the few dudes who has the athletic ability and arm strength and arm flexibility to do those things. And that's, I think as he gets more comfortable, as he gets more confident in his receivers and the offense, we're, I mean, the sky's the limit for what he can.
- [15:54]
Matt Abaticola
Be. Let's talk about the other side.
- [15:55]
Matt Miller
Of the ball real.
- [15:56]
Matt Abaticola
Quick. When the Bears last met the packers, they got burned by the blitz. And we know that it's not something that Dennis Allen always wants to do, but he's used it reasonably often compared to his statistical history as a defensive play caller. And yet there was Christian Watson locked up one on one against cj, Gardner, Johnson, and he just flat out ran him. And I thought that was asking too much of, of C.J. at that point to stay with somebody who is legit NFL fast, fast. So now that you've got, you've got an understanding of what Jordan Love saw, how he sees it, you gave us great advice last week when we sort of had this debate about Shador Sanders, and you said, sit and wait, sit and wait. And I'll be damned if in the second half that wasn't exactly the right thing to do because he ended up throwing you.
- [16:46]
Matt Miller
Three.
- [16:47]
Matt Abaticola
Yeah. How do you strike that balance? And now that you've seen Jordan Love, now that you know the Bears defense is, is getting a little bit healthier, if they can't trust the thrust of that front four to do it on their own, how do you make sure that you're at least bothering Love.
- [17:03]
Matt Miller
Enough? That's the key. I mean, he's playing really well, and I, I know that again, the, the box score scouts aren't going to look at that and say he's, he's playing, you know, at an elite level, but he's playing really well right now. And I, I think the last game, Montes Sweat was the only player that got a sack. You, you have to get home of four because I don't think the Bears match up particularly well man to man, you know, across the board. If you're just saying, okay, like CJ's going to guard Watson, well, that's, that's a wash. We've already seen that. I think the good news, if you're a Bears fan, is that you also have a Packers team that is struggling with some injuries. You know, so it's, who's actually going to be available, who's going to be out there for them at wide receiver is a big part of it. But I would, I would say with Love, you have to be able to get home of four because you want to play some umbrella coverage. You want to be able to take away like, he's, he's great at the checkdown and you know, Josh Jacobs has been limited, but that is something they do very, very well, is find that check down. So he's not the type of guy where I would say, hey, like, sit back, wait, you're going to confuse him with your coverages. You know, he's, he's a weaker, armed quarterback, like Shador in the cold, in the wind. You're gonna be able to pick some passes off. I don't really see that with love. I think the bigger thing with him is make him check the ball down. Don't give him those broken plays like we saw two weeks ago. Make him check the ball down. Make him be conservative. I think that is one thing, that in his development, he will still be that quarterback. He'll still stand in the pocket and take three, take four, and then you can build some three and outs. You can play a little bit more of a field position game, which is, I think, where we were at two weeks ago until, until the Christian Watson play. So I would say with him, you want to, you want to take away the big plays and just almost make him be boring, and that's how you can beat.
- [18:38]
Dan Bernstein
Them. So, as an NFL guy, but someone outside of Chicago, I know you're on top of the story that, that broke last night here in town. Kevin Warren releases an open letter to Bears fans talking about putting all options of a new Bear stadium back on the table, including moving the team to Indiana. That they would look at that. The governor of Indiana gets involved now and has some comments. Yeah, come on down. We'll, you know, we'll find you a spot and, you know, we'll get the stadium built. What's your take on, on this whole story, first of all? And then given the timing of when it took place, given the packers week and the title and the NFC north on the line, what are your thoughts as an outside NFL.
- [19:18]
Matt Miller
Guy? Well, I would say that the, the people doing these, that, you know, the politicians and the, the presidents and the owners, they understand the timing of things, right? And this is when you want, you know, max exposure to these things. You want, you want the taxpayers and the voters to be like, wait, it's Bears packers week and you're, you're going to take our team from us? I think it would be a tragedy for Chicago to not have an NFL team somewhere in the, in the loop, right? And I know, like Arlington Heights or wherever, like, it's, it's still close enough, right? I think it would be an absolute tragedy if this is a situation where you're not even playing in the same state anymore. And, you know, somewhat locally, the Chiefs and Royals are going through a similar thing. And here at least it's all about tax dollars. Which county, which state is going to give these franchises billions and billions of dollars to build stadiums that allow them to make billions and billions of dollars? And it's like, it's, it's crazy that stadiums have become socialized and these team owners are just saying who's going to give us the best deal? We're going to go there. And if our fans have to drive an hour or, you know, I covered the super bowl in Santa Clara a couple years ago. It was a two hour ride from our hotel in San Francisco to the 49ers, the San Francisco 49ers stadium in Santa Clara. Like that's, that's a tragedy to me that we are moving these teams not even to the suburbs, but to the ex, you know, way outside of that. So, I mean, I feel like the Bears have done this over the past several years. It's, we want this. No, we want that. No, we're going to move it here now. We're going to move it there. I think at some point they're just, you know, bargain shopping to some degree and trying to get leverage to say, here's the deal. We actually want. We just need someone else to jump in and say, here's an also attractive offer to maybe give you a little bit more bargaining.
- [21:07]
Matt Abaticola
Power. Now their desperation to do this at the 11th hour, at this time is gobsmacking. It is absolutely shocking that they would be willing to do this with all that they say about how important the rivalry is to their history and their ownership and the Halas family and everything else to then cheapen it with a stunt like this. I never want to hear it again. I never want to. Something else that we're going to discuss a little bit later on in the show. If I'm Ben Johnson, I'm a pissed off.
- [21:36]
Matt Miller
Too. And I would say in a year in which the, like the Bears have a legit chance, you know, all the years of Aaron Rodgers owning the Bears and owning Chicago and now you've got a quarterback that is good enough to go toe to toe with anyone in the NFL and you've got a team that is exciting and for that it does feel like a slap in the face to fans. It should at least for fans to be like, the focus should be on the fact that we're finally good enough to beat this damn team. Yep. And now we're, now we're Being told we might lose our team to the state of Indiana, which I'm losing it anyway. How long is that? Gary ride, slash.
- [22:11]
Matt Abaticola
Drive. Gary is closer than Arlington.
- [22:13]
Matt Miller
Heights. You can't put an NFL team in Gary, Indiana. Come.
- [22:17]
Matt Abaticola
On. Well, no, you could. You could just because of the. You know, the difficulty is going to be the quality of the land. So much of that land has been so poisoned chemically that I don't even know what kind of backfilling that they're going to have to do over the.
- [22:31]
Dan Bernstein
Years. Yeah, Matt, the big issue is that they screwed this up from the get go. They bought the land before they did any kind of negotiating, and then they hire a guy to help build the stadium. Then he came in and said, oh, you have the land. Well, we probably should stay in Chicago and trying to use that for leverage. And it's just. It's not working. And the issue is in the political landscape right now, not only just in Illinois, but in our. In our national landscape, the leaders in Illinois just. They don't give a shit to. They don't care about the Bears getting a new stadium. It's not a priority for them. It's not going to be a.
- [23:03]
Matt Abaticola
Priority for them because we taxpayers don't care either. We need better enrollments and education and health care. So there's. And especially with federal dollars shrinking for all of these nefarious reasons, and states are having to step in and take care of some of the neediest people that the Bears can get in the back of the.
- [23:25]
Matt Miller
Line. I have a lot of respect for the Broncos did where they came out and said, we need a new stadium. We're going to pay for it. You know, it was very. It was a very light lift from the tax rates. I know it's a different situation with the Bears, but, yeah, these teams.
- [23:38]
Matt Abaticola
Money.
- [23:39]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah. It's a very not novel business idea to actually build your own.
- [23:42]
Matt Abaticola
Facilities. Yeah. And the Chicago Fire soccer team. Joe Mansuetto is doing just that. He's like, hey, let me make me a deal on this land so I can build a stadium here for my fans. Great. Knock yourself out. There's a couple little things I want to get to here, Matt, before we let you go. One is we need your thought on a bet that Matty and I have. I kind of talked myself into this when I was trying to figure out why Diego Pavia was somehow mad at me for voting him second. And I don't know why he's mad at me. I thought it was kind of nice that I voted him second after a terrific season. But he's mad. And this ended up being. I bet Matt that Diego Pavia would never, ever take an NFL regular season snap as a.
- [24:31]
Dan Bernstein
Quarterback. Well, let's be fair. I think. I think. I think the bet went the other way around. I think. I bet you that he.
- [24:36]
Matt Miller
Would. Yeah, I don't think he will. I don't. I.
- [24:41]
Dan Bernstein
Mean. Well, you're both.
- [24:42]
Matt Abaticola
Wrong.
- [24:42]
Matt Miller
50. 50 quarterbacks have played this.
- [24:44]
Matt Abaticola
Year. So, I mean, I know you get.
- [24:46]
Matt Miller
In. There's a. Know that Dan, again, I don't have a Heisman vote. Take that for what you will. I do. I do think it's not good to. I didn't agree with this. What he did. I haven't agreed with a lot.
- [25:02]
Dan Bernstein
Of the things he's.
- [25:03]
Matt Miller
A. And I had someone ask me last night, they said, well, it's just like Johnny Manzel. And I said, guys, Johnny was 19 and Charming is.
- [25:10]
Matt Abaticola
25. That was the difference, though. Johnny Manziel was. Amid all of the behaviors, he was fun and kind of upbeat and he overplayed it. But. But Pavi is just kind of a low life compared to Johnny.
- [25:25]
Matt Miller
Manziel. You know, he's just gross. The chip is so big, you know, and I. I love quarterbacks with a chip on their shoulder. You have to have that. But the chip is so big that it's. And we've seen this before with guys where the chip becomes so big that it's. It becomes all you are. And so you almost have to recalibrate. Say, like, okay, what got me here? What got me here was that drive to prove people wrong. Now that you've proven people wrong, finishing second in the Heisman is a pretty damn good honor. But I. I still think that chip exists where you're like, oh, no, I should have been first. It's like, you know, second out of 5,000 college football players is pretty good. It's. It's still good. But I'll tell you, I deal with this all the time. If I, you know, rank Jeremiah Love as my top player, Ohio State fans want to know, why isn't it Caleb Downs? Like, guys, he's second out of about 1300 players I have to watch. Second is good. Second's okay.
- [26:14]
Dan Bernstein
Right? All right, so, Matty, we'll include you in that bet because the bet's for dinner. So if. If he never takes an NFL snap when you're in. When you're in town, the three of us will have.
- [26:23]
Matt Miller
Dinner. I mean, how many.
- [26:24]
Dan Bernstein
Years? Either I'm paying or Dan's paying. So however many, however many it takes. However many it.
- [26:29]
Matt Miller
Takes. It's a long play.
- [26:31]
Matt Abaticola
Now. Last thing I have for you, we had had some people note that the books behind you, all of the Stephen King titles. And I myself am a huge Stephen King fan, despite the fact that I've got a, I've got a Dean Koontz book right about there and the L. Ron Hubbard too. Where's that? Yes. And my copy of Dianetics is also there. But I think, you know, I'm an enormous Stephen King fan as well. And we were talking about the death of Rob Reiner and the murder of Rob Reiner and just how important he has been in the film history of Stephen King's works that in any way you want to rank the top Stephen King adaptations that I think that it's. People believe that probably Shawshank Redemption and the Shining cinematically are probably the two towering achievements. But I would have Misery and Stand By Me in some order there next on my list of these two incredibly different movies and stories tonally completely different. And yet Rob Reiner was able to capture the, the essence of both of those movies in wonderful ways. As much as you're into the books, how do you feel about, about that and sort of what the, the cinematic catalog of King's work has.
- [27:48]
Matt Miller
Been? Yeah. So someone like, I'm, I mean, I'm a Stephen King nerd. Like I have a whole like tattoo sleeve of Stephen King books. It's, it's.
- [27:55]
Dan Bernstein
Ridiculous. Oh.
- [27:56]
Matt Miller
Wow. So I feel like there are very few people that do King. Well, Rob Reiner, Frank Daravant and now Mike Flanagan are like the only people where you see them. They're going to do King and it's like, yes, that is it. I actually don't like the Shining very much as a film, as a book, as a movie. Like as a movie, it's like, yeah, that's great. Just forget that you've ever read the book, you know, is kind of the way to do that. So I, I always say Shawshank is my favorite movie of all time. I. Misery is one of the hardest movies for me to watch, but I, I love it and it is terrifying. I think especially for any of us that work in a front facing job. You know, the idea of the, the, the very loyal fan, you know, tying you up and doing terrible things to you is, is high on our list of.
- [28:40]
Matt Abaticola
Fears. And having to literally. How about, how about having to write for your.
- [28:43]
Matt Miller
Life? Yeah. Which, you know, spoiler alert podcast.
- [28:48]
Matt Abaticola
About that literally banging on Those keys to save your.
- [28:52]
Dan Bernstein
Life.
- [28:52]
Matt Miller
Yeah. I would put Stand By Me up there as well. And again, I have two older brothers. They're the ones that introduced me to Stephen King movies before I was old enough to read his.
- [29:00]
Dan Bernstein
Books.
- [29:00]
Matt Miller
Sure. And Stand By Me was like a favorite in our house because it is such a, you know, a coming of age story and it's, you know, dealing with trauma and dealing with bullies and, you know, just growing up basically. So it would be, it would be up there for me. It's funny, as someone like, I love horror movies and books. My favorite Stephen King movies are not the scary ones. It's not, it, it's not, you know, it's. It's more of the. The storytelling like Shawshank or Stand By Me, the Green Mile. I think those are all. All.
- [29:29]
Matt Abaticola
Fantastic. My personal. Not favorite, but I would say on my list that is higher than that of most people that I still, and it still holds up as just a really well made movie is Christine. And if you haven't seen it in a long time, it's not. You're not talking about name actors, but on much, much, much less of a budget of kind of what might be even considered a B movie. It's.
- [29:59]
Matt Miller
Excellent. I haven't seen it in a while. I need.
- [30:02]
Dan Bernstein
To. But yeah, it's been a long time.
- [30:04]
Matt Miller
Too. Yeah. Once I get some.
- [30:06]
Dan Bernstein
Downtime. Two things, a couple things about Stephen King. First of all, have you ever seen the mashup where they take the Shining trailer and make it into a rom.
- [30:16]
Matt Miller
Com? Yes. Which is.
- [30:18]
Dan Bernstein
Great. One of the funniest things. One of the funniest things I've ever seen. Secondly, now on Stephen King, the HBO series that's out, it's been out for a bit, but we just started watching it the other night. It's called it welcome to Derry. To Derry. So it's the. It's the prequel to the Pennywise story. If neither one of you have watched is. First of all, it's great, but it is, it's terrifying. It's absolutely. That's what, like, I'm a.
- [30:44]
Matt Miller
Terrifying. People know that I'm a nerd. And so I'm aware of it, but I haven't had enough focused time to sit down and like spend the time that it needs. Right. I feel like every time if I sit down at night, I'm like, I'm distracted by my phone or like something's going on, so I need to turn my phone.
- [31:02]
Dan Bernstein
Off. And if you get a chance to dedicate some time for it I'm telling you, you're gonna enjoy. We're like three episodes in and it's, I'm like, I had a nightmare the other night because of it. I literally woke up middle of the night because I was dreaming about that movie. So it's, it's or the show. So it's really good. All right, let's get to real quick before I let you go, some college football stuff. Tell us what's out there right now, college football wise, that people can consume from you. And then looking at this weekend, what's your, what's your main focus for this.
- [31:27]
Matt Miller
Weekend? Yeah, so I just put an article out this week and it is basically going team by team, you know, Hoosiers all the way to the Dukes that are in the CFP and looking at who their draft prospects are. So if you're watching games over the next week, College football playoff games with an eye toward the draft, this will kind of be your watch list of whom to watch. So Alabama, Oklahoma is I think the big game this weekend. And in Miami you'll have a couple first round pass rushers in that one. I, I kind of want to watch Oregon, JMU just to see how bad it is. Like, just to see, you know, just to see like what happens. But I'll also be watching Bears packers at that time. So it's, they, they knew what they were doing with the, the seating of the this weekend. But this is, you know, it's, it's a draft class that lacks that star power of a player at a premium position that we've talked about for three years. It is a really good draft class for trench play, you know, wide receivers, safeties, linebackers. It is a good draft to build in the middle through. So that, that article is free on espn. People can check it out and, and print it or whatever people do in this day and age and kind of keep it as a resource for the.
- [32:32]
Matt Abaticola
Weekend. This, this house is going to be very busy on Saturday with Tulane, Ole Miss and then Bears and Packers and the, the debate I'm going to have internally here about Jake Retzlaff. We sort of had the same Diego Pavia debate saying is, and I see with Retzloff, I think that's a guy who could get into a camp.
- [32:52]
Matt Miller
And. Yeah, I think.
- [32:53]
Matt Abaticola
So. And be difficult. You know, all it takes is like he, he can make a lot of different off platform throws. He is fast. And I would say if I had to pick one person to make a roster, it would be, it would be Retzlaff way over Diego Pavia. I can tell you I think.
- [33:10]
Matt Miller
He has more of the NFL type.
- [33:12]
Matt Abaticola
Traits.
- [33:13]
Matt Miller
Yep. You know, and like, like here in like we just had Brady Cook go from Mizzou, you know, round seven draft pick. Now he's starting for the jets for a couple more weeks. Right. It's like it's, there's a lot of that happening right now. But I, I think Red stuff could be a similar guy. You know, Shrine game, pro day, have a couple good pre draft moments. It's going to get you as a seventh round pick probably. Or maybe a priority free agent and then, and once you're in camp, it's a even playing.
- [33:39]
Matt Abaticola
Field. Yeah. If Max Duggan can be on a roster, I think Red Slav can.
- [33:44]
Matt Miller
Because I think maybe I want to change my Diego Pavia boat now. Now that we're diving into this weeds, I'm like, man, oh.
- [33:51]
Matt Abaticola
No. Matt Miller guys, have a terrific weekend. Thank you as always for taking the time with us. It's much.
- [33:58]
Matt Miller
Appreciated. I appreciate you.
- [33:59]
Martha Stewart
Guys.
- [34:00]
Dan Bernstein
Thanks. All right, buddy, we'll talk to you.
- [34:01]
Matt Abaticola
Soon. That is Matt Miller of ESPN at NFL draft scout. You can find him on the X platform. Did you know you can opt out of winter with VRBO? Save up to $1,500 for booking a month long stay with thousands of sunny homes. Why subject yourself to the cold? Just filter your search by monthly stays and save up to $1,500. Look now@vrbo.com and by the way, if you haven't gotten yourself the 312 Sports app, please do, please make sure you do that because it's a great way to not only have forward progress, Dan Bernstein unfiltered and organizations win championships all at your fingertips. The podcasts, the YouTube. You also can get rewards. And when we say rewards it means dinners, Chicago Firehouse, Shake Shack, Giordano's. And we've added something special now. And that would be tickets to see Guns N Roses with Public.
- [34:59]
Dan Bernstein
Enemy.
- [34:59]
Matt Abaticola
Yep. Mm. Yup. And all you have to do is use the code word or the little keyword. Bears. Bears is the word for any of those rewards on the app. Go to the Apple App Store, Google Play and have it with you. And it's a good thing. You'll enjoy it.
- [35:16]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah. And one of the features that it seems that listeners love is the, the ability to send an audio message which they come in at all times of the day. And actually they're coming in right now as we're, as we're doing this.
- [35:28]
Matt Abaticola
Show. The number of rants that came in last night. All I wanted to do, yeah, all I wanted to do was, was go up to bed. I wanted to do a puzzle. I wanted to put on one of my little, you know, ASMR videos or space music or whatever it is. And then it's just one after the other after the other ranting about Kevin Warren. About Kevin Warren and the Bears decision to do this at this time. I'm still livid about it. I really am trying to. It's hysterically funny how ham handed, how poorly done and poorly timed it is. It is comical. But I'm also actually mad about it. And if I were Ben Johnson, if I were Ben Johnson, I'd be pissed too. Because his relationship with the fans has been special off to a start. From the moment he had that press conference, the moment he walked into the building and had his first press conference and won the day of all of that, to the point where he's taking off his shirt to be a man of the people, to get everybody free hot dogs. And now as all that's going on and all that's building to this primetime Saturday night game, you as an ownership and as a. As an organization, from Kevin Warren to George McCaskey, wherever one ends and the other begins, you decide, no, it's not about that relationship between the team and the coach. We're going to leverage it. We are going to hold you hostage and we're gonna try to use you, the fan in this game. That's all you mean to us, where Johnson's taken off his shirt to get you a free hot dog and instead it's like, nope, we want to twist the knife to make you go call up JB Pritzker and say that we're not wealthy enough. Screw.
- [37:21]
Dan Bernstein
You. Yeah, it's interesting. I'm not as, as angry about it as you are not pissed off about it. Because first of all, when I heard it, I laughed because it's a joke. It's complete bullshit. They're not leaving the state of Illinois. They would never take the franchise to Indiana. It's just. It's not going to happen. The second point for me is I just. I honestly don't care. I don't care if they play in Gary, if they play in Kenosha, if they go and play down in Springfield. It doesn't matter to me. I don't go to Bears games. I'm not going to go to Bears games. I get more out of it watching on tv. I like being at home to watch the game. That's where I consume. NFL football is on my tv. That's what I'm going to do. So I personally don't care. The third thing is it's so misguided and the PR behind this is so mishandled. I'm not even surprised by it. I'm not surprised one bit. If you had to throw the scenario out there and make it generic and say, which organization in all of sports, include all the sports, would do.
- [38:20]
Matt Abaticola
This, would find a way to screw this.
- [38:22]
Dan Bernstein
Up. The Bears would be at the top of my list because that's just how they've been. And it's just, it's unfortunate. It's really unfortunate that they are one of the oldest franchises in the NFL, that their, Their. Their. Their founder was one of the founders of the National Football League. And it's an absolute joke. I've always said this, Dan, that, you know, if I could make a list of the biggest jokes in all of sports or the biggest travesties in sports. The Bears not owning their own stadium, to me is one of the. One of the top things, one of the top five, one of the top three travesties at all the professional sports. How the Chicago Bears don't own their own Stadium in 2025 is absolutely beyond my.
- [38:59]
Matt Abaticola
Understanding. Well, they. It appears that they're not able to. It appears that they just don't have the money. Yeah, it's funny, this kind of desperation. They wouldn't be this desperate if they could just own their own.
- [39:12]
Dan Bernstein
Stadium. You're right, Dan. And when you. When you brought that up on DBU today, and if you haven't listened to DBU yet, we, you know, we get into it in great detail. Dan's got a lot of. A lot of great things to say about it, about Kevin Warren and the Bears and the Caskeys. I never really thought it because. Because they own an NFL team. I never thought about them being NFL owner poor, which if they can't go out and do it, they shouldn't own this team. And I think. I think you're spot on. They. They just don't have the money and, or the borrowing power to go out and get this done on their own. That's all this says. And that's pretty pathetic for an NFL ownership in.
- [39:50]
Matt Abaticola
2025. Yep. Even when you can sell some percentage to private equity and raise this kind of cash, they've put themselves in a situation where they never built out their.
- [40:02]
Dan Bernstein
Business.
- [40:02]
Matt Abaticola
No. They never made with all the profits they had been making. They never diversified. This is like the first lesson of investing is don't put all your eggs in one basket. It's like, it's, it's like being a stock picker. Instead of saying, I'm going to get these mutual funds and these internationals and these fixed incomes, that you should spread everything out. Like I say, if you had gone back and just look at when, when they, when they ran them out of Decatur, if George Hallis had taken some of the money when they first created the Chicago Bears and just invested in whatever the equivalent of an S.
- [40:41]
Dan Bernstein
And P fund back then. Yeah.
- [40:43]
Matt Abaticola
Yeah. Or even later, even after the merger. Whenever, whenever. Or even going back to after Muggs died, whenever they were saying, okay, bring in McKenna and bring in Ryan and everything they had to do, just take a chunk of it and do something else. Or Dan, even real estate, something.
- [41:01]
Dan Bernstein
In the early 80s, in the early 80s, when the Bears were at their peak of popularity, to not even take a portion at that point and say, all right, what else can we do to make sure we can build for the future? Yeah, that's really, really interesting. Really interesting. And I just, it's, it's, it's just, it's so mind boggling to me. And I, and I've said it for years, even when we were on the score together, I would say it. How do the Bears not own their own stadium? Like, how is it that, that it's a, it's, it's a public building. And not only that, a public building that's not used very well for your NFL.
- [41:34]
Matt Abaticola
Team. You don't even get like preferential.
- [41:38]
Dan Bernstein
Treatment. No, you.
- [41:39]
Matt Miller
Don'T. You.
- [41:40]
Dan Bernstein
Don'T. You're like, all you are is a tenant, right? That's insane to.
- [41:43]
Matt Abaticola
Me. They're busy taking care of Suenos fest.
- [41:47]
Dan Bernstein
Right? And there's like soccer games and it says, and you know, it's like, like you're an NFL team and you're not even a priority. I know you're just one of the people that rents the building.
- [41:55]
Matt Abaticola
Out. And yet as much as you make your case of the meaning to the city and how profound, profound the rivalry with the packers happens to be because it reaches so back into your, your, your sacred history, now you're just cheaply cashing it in as a naked, transparent leverage play that's just going to blow up in your face.
- [42:20]
Dan Bernstein
And. Oh, Dan, it's not a leverage play. It's not a leverage play. They said that. They said it's not a leverage.
- [42:25]
Matt Abaticola
Play. You even put that, how do you let somebody put that in this Isn't about.
- [42:29]
Dan Bernstein
Leverage. Oh, watch.
- [42:30]
Matt Abaticola
This. We'll just say it's not about.
- [42:32]
Dan Bernstein
Leverage. We're gonna sneak it right past them. They'll be too dumb to read that.
- [42:35]
Matt Abaticola
Part. We are. And then to presume that Bears fans aren't also taxpayers, like it's our money and you're taking my fandom and our fandom and you're trying to extort money.
- [42:55]
Dan Bernstein
Because. No, yeah, Dan. And then, but just the timing of it, not only that, but on top of the economic hardship, the economic hardship that people in Illinois are facing, just living, just getting by day to day, and you're going to do this right now. It's really it, man. It really is. It's really a piss poor, piss poor opportunity that they, that they took advantage of right here. And I mean, you know, you have these weekly rookie symposiums and George inserts himself two weeks ago to talk about the packers and then, and then you do that right now. And I love the point about if I'm Ben Johnson, I'm pissed off too, man. I mean, you've taken all the focus away of what they've done. They're 10 and fucking four. They, you know, I mean, if you'd have said to me months ago the bears will be 10 and four going in the packers week, I'd have been like, come on, really? There's no shot. They're 10 and 4. They're 10 and 4. They could clinch the division. They could get a playoff spot this weekend. And what do you do? You put a letter out there and say we might move to Indiana. Fuck you, man. That's bullshit. It really.
- [44:02]
Matt Abaticola
Is. Before we let you go, we should note that Ben Johnson has told the media that he will find out later on today about the availability of Roma Dunes A and Luther Burden. So their status will be.
- [44:15]
Dan Bernstein
Updated. I don't think it's good, dude, for either one, man. I said that Monday and I'm.
- [44:19]
Matt Abaticola
Going to stick to that.
- [44:20]
Dan Bernstein
Either. I, that's, that's what I heard from Ben.
- [44:22]
Matt Abaticola
Yeah. And apparently Josh Jacobs and Zach Tom are both missing practice today for the Packers. But also no decisions will be made until later. So they have up to the inactive point, I imagine that they're going to travel and they'll just make a game time decision as to whether or not Jacobs and Tom are going to play. It does sound like Christian Watson is going to be available as the latest we know. But that's. I liked what Matt Miller had to say about 13 personnel and just play a high school.
- [44:56]
Dan Bernstein
Game. Yeah, no Just go ahead and do.
- [44:57]
Matt Abaticola
It. Just play a high school game and just run it, run it, run it, run it, run it. And then, you know, you, you have, you have Cole Comet or Loveland get out into a pattern here or there as.
- [45:06]
Dan Bernstein
Needed. I'm so excited for this game and I just, I cannot wait to see what Ben Johnson has planned for this game coming off of that, the way that game ended and how fired up, you know, Caleb Williams has to be. I mean that again, your analogy. He had him on the hook. He saw him, they were out there and he brought him in and he brought him in and he brought him in and then he ruined it. He did it. He underthrew that pass. It was there. He was late and he underthrew it. That was on him. Now he has to live with that. Now these last 13 days, I hope they come out and his fire right out of the gates. Man, I'm so excited for this game. I cannot wait. I haven't been this excited for a Bears game since last Sunday.
- [45:49]
Matt Abaticola
Dan. Well, that's a very high compliment to the Chicago Bears. At least in the, at least the locker room part of it. Yeah. So we got one more. I'm counting the number of forward progresses before our post.
- [46:03]
Dan Bernstein
Game. And we have one.
- [46:04]
Matt Abaticola
More. We'll have one tomorrow, obviously. Big day for 312 sports tomorrow because it's a Friday and that means that we are going to do on DBU it's going to be special. Our bottom 10 packers, the most infamous whatever reasoning, whatever logic we want to use the most infamous actual Green Bay packers of all time and it will be Friday Feedback Friday and we're going to get into what we usually do on Fridays on this show and that is like we say, more of the game planning stuff. We're going to know who's available and once we understand what these regular active rosters are going to look like for the game and who the inactives are likely to be, we can start to predict what we think Ben Johnson might do. That's all.
- [46:44]
Dan Bernstein
Tomorrow. Yeah. And we'll actually have an insiders look too from the packers side of things during Forward Progress. Bill Huber of SI will join us. Talk packers as well. So it's going to be a really fun Friday for us here on.
- [46:55]
Matt Abaticola
312Sports. Awesome. That's going to do it. For Forward Progress a Chicago Bears podcast Bernstein and Abate a Cola on 3312.
- [47:02]
Dan Bernstein
Sports. Forward Progress a Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312.
- [47:18]
Matt Abaticola
Sports. Save over $200 when you book weekly. Stays with Verbo this winter. If you haven't seen your college besties since, well, college. You need a week to catch up in a snowy cabin, take a week long vacation and save over $200. Book now at verbo.