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- [00:01]
A
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. Everybody talked about it since I first moved to Oregon. The big one. The earthquake that trashed the whole West Coast. Total destruction. Officially calling it the largest natural disaster in American history. I just didn't know what would help me next.
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B
So I took it all. Even the gun.
- [00:39]
A
It was time cello see why American Afterlife is the number one fiction and drama podcast in America. Presented by Pair of Thieves. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Available now at vrbo. We understand that even the best of plans sometimes need a little support. So we plan for the plot twists. Every booking is automatically backed by our VRBO Care guarantee, giving you confidence from the very start. Whenever you need help, it's ready before your stay, through the moments in between and after your trip. Because a great trip starts with peace of mind and maybe a good playlist. But we've got the peace of mind part covered. I mean, if you're a Bears fan, you're thinking forward Progress. Come on. 219.
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B
219. Forward progress. Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312 Sports.
- [01:49]
A
This is forward progress number two for today. We figured that this one needed its space. We if you are curious about Bears draft stuff and Dylan Theenman and some of the available players for tonight's rounds two and three, you can find that on our YouTube page or wherever you get your podcasts. And this is a separate Friday forward progress for you about other things that are going on outside of just draft stuff.
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B
Now, Dan, I don't like to do this, but there's, with each passing day, there's more stuff that comes out around this story of Mike Vrabel and Diana Rossini.
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A
See, I liked, I don't mind doing it. It's a huge story and I will say too full, full disclosure here. And we, we learned this from experience, the whatever drives the, the Internet, the social media algorithm. People want more of this story. People cannot get enough of this story.
- [02:51]
B
So let me, let me, let me start that over. I don't, it's not that I don't like doing this because I like talking about this. It's a, it's the biggest NFL story there is right now. What I don't like doing is making the next statement. And my next statement is, Mike Vrabel needs to go. Mike Vrabel needs to be fired by Robert Kraft.
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A
Why?
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B
First of all, what we learned initially about this story is just the tip of the iceberg. And more stuff keeps coming with more. And with the revelation of those photos that surfaced from 2020. And we know that she started covering him back in 2018 when he was the head coach of the Titans. The questions around, how did this benefit Mike Vrabel and his teams, the Titans or the Patriots? What has been done behind the scenes that has been shady and unethical from an NFL standpoint? Those questions need to be asked. But on a very simple, very simple level with Mike Rabel. He was asked the other day by a reporter, is the photo, are the photos still laughable? Rabel said, I appreciate the question. I'm going to focus on our football team.
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A
That's a no.
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B
That's a no.
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A
The question is, was he laughing when he said it? And if the answer is no, then the answer is no.
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B
Now there's another wrinkle to this story where everything from Diana Rossini, everything from Diana Rossini and Mike Vrabel together has been scrutinized and brought back to the surface again. From old videos to tweets to old interactions, everything is now being scrutinized. And there, there will be more information learned under this scrutiny. I have no doubt about that. I really don't. When you saw their. Both of their responses, which were filtered in anger and ego, it just is leading me to believe that more will be found, that more was done that will be unfavorable to the NFL.
- [05:00]
A
Well, we were hearing from the moment this broke that going back to Tennessee, the words open secret were used. And this is just the rumor mill here that we say, oh, yeah, well, everybody kind of suspected or everybody kind of knew. Usually those sentiments are correct.
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B
Generally, yes. There was a tweet that was brought up from Diana Rossini. It says, keep looking at my almost four day old son, Michael, while trying to figure out who are the best Michaels to ever play and coach in the NFL. And whether there's anything to this, Dan, it's not the point now. It's just they're adding all of that into this story.
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A
Yep.
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B
Okay.
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A
Yep.
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B
So I went back through. I went back through and, and watched Mike Vrabel's introductory press conference with the Patriots. Okay. I wanted, I wanted to just get a good feel for it.
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A
Okay.
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B
Because I didn't watch it when it happened. I had no reason to.
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A
Oh, why would you?
- [06:07]
B
But it starts off with Robert Kraft giving Mike Vrabel's wife flowers, specifically calls her up on stage, greets her, gives her a big bouquet of flowers. He comes up, starts talking. He first thanks her and thanks his kids. Talks about how it wasn't easy for them having him as a. As a dad and, you know, trying to figure out the balance of a dad and a coach.
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A
Okay.
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B
Talked about his parents, who are both teachers. His dad, who was a coach, thanked Robert Kraft for the. For potentially allowing him to lead this team. He talks further about how he's going to galvanize our football team, galvanize this building. He talks about providing a program that provides their ownership to the players. He's addressing that were there. Provide a player. Provide a program that provides their ownership, but also their accountability of each other, and one that they'll be proud to be part of and one they're going to fight for. He talks about culture, what your culture looks like when your family, your business, and your team is at its lowest point. When the chips are against you, when you're down, that's when your culture is evident. Okay.
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A
Okay.
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B
He said so much there, Dan.
- [07:27]
A
Yep. Yep.
- [07:28]
B
Well, that he, like, he. Robert Kraft needs to fire Mike Vrabel.
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A
He might not be the guy you hired.
- [07:36]
B
Thing that he has stood for, Everything that he said has been an absolute lie and his actions that were unknown or maybe somewhat known, but his full actions, which are now known, are contrary to everything he has said to Robert Kraft, to those Patriots players, to the Patriots media, to the Patriots fans. Everything he said was a complete and total lie.
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A
Unless privately. Unless Kraft is in on the lie, too. And privately, he's like, yeah, I don't think it's gonna be a problem. But just so you know, I'm doinking a national writer and have been for a while. I got this whole thing going on the side, so you're not gonna have to worry about. And that. That clearly didn't happen. He didn't. He didn't say that going in. That wasn't disclosed.
- [08:26]
B
Right.
- [08:27]
A
So it. And it would be weird if it were, but, man, when you say that. And what I'm thinking through here is trying to balance. On the one hand, we've got pretty much black and white, and we're talking about ethics on her side of things. Can't do it. Can't do it. If you want to do it, you can't work that job. That's fine. You can do it. You Just can't also be a reporter. You can't be sleeping with the, if that happens with the subjects that you're on, whom you're reporting. So that's an easy one. Where it gets more difficult for a guy like Vrabel and for you to come to that conclusion is that one. When we talk about credibility, the only place a coach really needs credibility is in that in the locker room with his players or their players publicly. It's different that that's going to vary a little bit. But you could argue that there isn't sort of an ethical imperative because there's a lot of scumbag coaches that everybody knew were scumbags that have won a lot. Right.
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B
And we talked about this too, about our very own hypocrisy, that Patriots fans could find Mike Vrabel disgusting, could find his actions just horrible, but yet they're still going to go to the games.
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A
Of course they're still going to watch
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B
the games like we all do with the NFL.
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A
Yeah, I mean, it doesn't rise to that, but.
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B
Correct.
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A
But let me also just say then there's the personal credibility aspect. And it depends the extent to which you have staked your personal name, reputation and personal example as a function of how you do your job. Not every coach is the same way. You can get a lot of coaches be like, yeah, you know, I'm kind of great. Does anybody care right now that Rick Patino was in the back of his restaurant bending somebody over a table and that was the big, remember that big scandal?
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B
Yeah. No. No one, no one cares.
- [10:33]
A
Doesn't matter. I don't think. I think it matters now. And obviously time changes these things, but this guy, it, it also is this. It's one thing to have one dalliance. It's also for one of these coaches to, to have slipped up a multi year relationship is, is every day you're, you're considering that decision. Every day you're making that decision. If you are that romantically involved with this person in multiple cities over this many years, that's not one bad night. That's not I got drunk and I made a terrible decision that I regret deeply. That's a lifestyle choice, is what that is at that point. That's the life you want to live. And when you say this is, this is, that's also who you are. And not every coach sells who he is as why you should play for me or why you should listen to me or why you should care. This, this is the essence of who I am. Vrabel. Does more of that more than others. Where there's some coaches say, like, yeah, I'm a piece of shit, but I can really design a game plan for you and I can win games. Don't. Don't you. I'm not telling you to be like me. I'm not telling you to act like me. You hired me to do a job. Let me do the job.
- [11:52]
B
Right. I can do the job, for sure.
- [11:53]
A
Yeah. Yeah, I can do the job. And that all comes down to how you present yourself, what your brand is. And if his sort of personal brand has been the avatar for the integrity and family. And somebody pointed out to me they did a video before the Super Bowl, a video of Mike Vrabel as a champion for women reporters.
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B
Yes.
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A
Do you remember this?
- [12:20]
B
Yes. He always, at every press conference, he acknowledges a female reporter and lets her have the first question.
- [12:27]
A
Yep. Just like Helen Thomas, who also ended up getting canceled. But this, he was Mike Vrabel, this guy who is. Who just shows. And even though he's big and rough and tough, he is obviously sensitive to the battle that all these women reporters face. And he goes out of his way to be supportive like that. All of that stuff now pisses me off. It pisses me off that somebody put that package together and gave us the. All of that horseshit about him.
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B
What, What I don't understand is how he can have control and leadership within that locker room when he can say things like, I'm going to provide a program that gives ownership to the players, but also their own accountability of each other. A program they'll be proud of, to be a part of, and a program that they're going to fight for. Who wants to be proud of this or fight for this? Who. Who knows how he has chastised or tried to encourage through rough love with some of his players about their behavior or attitudes or actions. As the head coach of the Patriots, I'm sure it's been done. I could see him putting his arm around a guy. This isn't bringing a guy into his meeting and say, listen, let's. Let's talk about this. This is not the way you do X, Y and Z. And then this comes out. How can he have control of that team in that locker room? And I'm telling you, Dan, if. If he cares at all about the relationship, there is no way he can actively pursue healing that damage done in that relationship and still be a full time NFL head coach.
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A
I just cannot.
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B
You cannot do both.
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A
The amount of hubris to have been involved in this relationship for this long and to somehow think it's okay or you're too big to fail on both sides.
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B
That's what it is, Dan. It's. It's too big to fail. It's that. It's that ego, which is why the initial response was driven out of anger and it was driven out of disbelief. And it was. It's laughable. With the undertone of, how dare you bring this to me? How dare you challenge me? Mike Vrabel, I'm the head coach of the Patriots. I just took my team to the Super Bowl. This is laughable. There's nothing to do.
- [15:05]
A
There's more to it as we are seeing it with every new video that comes out of Mike Vrabel and Diana Rossini in a casino together, in that bar together. And there's a sort of forensic deconstruction of the other interviews, videos, what she's written about him. And there's one in which she's asking him quite. The two are sitting in like director's chairs on the practice field and she's asking all of these cutesy personal questions about his wife and playing ping pong together.
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B
Yeah, she asked about her being an athlete and it was like, yeah, she once was a great athlete and what sport could she beat you in now? And he said, maybe ping pong.
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A
And you just look at some of the dates. And now that we know what was going on, it's calling some things into question about. And you mentioned this earlier on and we had an email that came into the show that actually detailed some of this stuff. And how did the Patriots and. Or the Titans gain an advantage because of this relationship? If she has pillow talk, awareness of intended transactions or desires, and is able to put things out there, these national reporters, these insiders. Insiders, whole new meaning. They're powerful and they can put things in the bloodstream that teams pay attention to. That's a fact. We like to think, oh, we don't read it. We don't read it yet. They do. They absolutely know what the. They pay attention to what insiders are saying. And if stuff can be put into the news bloodstream that can affect Mike Vrabel's business positively for him, that is something the league should look at. They won't and they. But they should according to their own policy, because this is. This is starting to rise to the point of causing the NFL to appear unfavorably. And that does fall within the purview of their personal conduct policy.
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B
Right. And left up to the NFL. I Do not believe they will. They will do anything.
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A
Well, they're not going to do anything about Steve.
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B
I was just going to say that we've seen this with the Giants and Steve Tisch, that. That they did not step in or intervene at all. They're not going to. In this situation at all. And if. If asked about it, when asked about it, I should say they'll just say that's a personal matter for Mike Vrabel, for the Patriots to handle.
- [17:41]
A
And.
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B
And I know it's. It's a tall.
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A
It's.
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B
It's a tall order to ask of Robert Kraft to step in. He won't, but I think Robert Kraft needs to.
- [17:50]
A
But this is according to the NFL personal conduct policy. You tell me that all league personnel, including players, avoid, quote, conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in, unquote, the NFL.
- [18:10]
B
Yeah. No, I agree with you. It fits right there.
- [18:12]
A
I mean, it has nothing to do with crime. It has nothing to do with crime. And if you're talking about this, the relationship with a national insider over that period of time. And that does matter. It does matter that this was years, apparently. And to say that that isn't conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in the league. I think it clearly is.
- [18:42]
B
I think it clearly is, too. But they also won't follow their own policies. We've seen that with Steve Tisch.
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A
Mm.
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B
And there's certainly. And if you're going to compare the two situations, they're going to look at this in even less regard than they do Steve Tisch.
- [19:01]
A
Well, it is. It's. With every day that's gone by, it shows how poorly they've handled it. This is another aspect of how to. How you can teach Crisis PR101 and teach this as what not to do.
- [19:18]
B
Yeah. And for me to think that Robert Kraft would step in, that. That is laughable. I mean, this is the same guy who tried to get the story buried.
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A
Yeah.
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B
By the New York Post.
- [19:26]
A
And the same guy that was. That had his own ass in the jackpot, sitting in the. In the back of the rubbing tug. Mm. So, yes. I mean, it's. It's is the. There's There's a lot of gross involved here. But when you start questioning the sacrosanct information here, it's one thing when you know the NFL insider is working for agents that's been exposed in the hurry to text and be first, whether it's Schefter, Rappaport or any number of these NFL people that so many things have accidentally been included in social media posts that we know where a lot of the information is coming from. We know how the sausage gets made. But. But not, not like this. This one's different. This one's different. And you wonder how the system can be gamed by a team or coach when you've got that kind of power, when you have that kind of, of. Of access to that side of NFL business, to the media side, the insider side of it. What a coach could possibly do to, to. To move little balances slightly in his direction or his team's direction. Yeah.
- [20:47]
B
And it certainly wouldn't be that difficult for the NFL to have an internal investigation to determine where the areas along these six to eight years that could potentially be an issue. You could highlight, you could flag those. And then it. It wouldn't be that difficult because it's all public information that's shared. This isn't some kind of insider trading. They're trying to keep it quiet. I mean, that's. Here's what I think, here's what I know, here's what I want. Well, let's get this out there. And it'll be out there for public consumption. So it wouldn't be that difficult to flag, to highlight, and then to just take a quick look at and see how could this potentially benefit Mike Vrabel? How could it potentially benefit the Tennessee Titans or the New England Patriots? And any area that allows that, that question to creep in, and you see multiple of those. That right there answers the old, your own NFL policy, fellas. But again, I just, I don't think they'll do anything. I don't think Robert Kraft will do anything. But if I'm, If I'm a player, how am I supposed to have my building and my football team galvanized by this guy where he's going to provide a program where there's accountability to each other, one that we'll be proud of and we're going to fight for it, and you're the one leading it. That doesn't work.
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A
And apparently no less a journalist than Pablo Torrey is working on this story as well. And he mentioned via Twitter where he said, still making calls, one thing. Days after the photos in Sedona were taken, two sources say Diana Rossini organized a rival day drinking party with Mike Vrabel at the Biltmore Pool, right in front of Jay glazer's party and 28 NFL head coaches. Okay, I don't know what sort of organized a rival day drinking party means.
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B
Wait a second. So a party A day drinking party
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A
at the Brable at this pool. This is where the coaches were meeting. This is a different. In front of.
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B
So Jake Laser was having like a get together.
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A
Yes.
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B
With 28 of the 32 head coaches.
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A
Yes. Okay, so she organized a rival day drinking party.
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B
So we can assume Sean McVeigh wasn't there because he wasn't for. There for the picture. We can also assume that your guy was out getting a second haircut, which is why he missed the drinking party.
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A
Yeah, you see, but that's the next story. It's like Todd Monkin is having an affair with Margot Robbie. That's what everybody's going to find out right now. That's the next shoe to drop. The big scandal because of his haircut. Exactly. Like women could not tear themselves off of Todd Monkin because of his awesome haircut that he apparently got under a bridge. But he mistimed it because it was the same time.
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B
That's right. It was under a bridge by a troll. Yes. Who's your barber? A troll.
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A
And how about. And now it's just the way they've handled it, the fact that he comes out. It's like they know that the other TMZ photos are going to come out of them in the bar in New York. I don't know if they knew the casino photos were going to come out as well. So that's why Vrabel sort of this, this, this weird furtive glancing of like, well, I, you know, I have difficult conversations. And he's looking down the whole time and he looks completely miserable. He won't answer a direct question. And it's all this non denial, denial stuff. And then he says, well, I'm going to counseling. Are you going immediately? Is it that important? Well, no, I'm going. I'm going to miss day three of the draft. Not day one or two. Because they always say like family first, but not, not family first until the first two days of the draft are over. Day three, and then he goes for wiener counseling.
- [24:32]
B
That happened in response to knowing that the photos were coming out.
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A
Yes, apparently. Right. Apparently the timing was such that the. The New York Post and Page Six, they say that they called for comment, that they contacted them for comment on the photos from 2020. From March of 2020, just before the COVID shutdown, when they're in Tribeca canoodling and kissing and holding hands in the bar. And it was that they said, apparently, well, we got to do something. Say that you're going to counseling. You're going to counseling. Over so they can, something can be fixed. And again, I. If there is something, if there, if there is a mental illness component here or an addiction component, I'm obviously sensitive to that. But it's different when you're talking about something that went on for years. For years. I want to know exactly what kind of counseling, however you phrase it, is designed to ameliorate or counterbalance an eight year affair or a six year affair, whatever this inappropriate relationship was. What's the counseling for that?
- [25:48]
B
I mean, it could very simply just be a space of openness and honesty to get everything out on the table in front of a third party to moderate and be a part of helping this healing process. It could be as simple as that. Which doesn't sound simple at all.
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A
No, no, it sounds really complicated and like a huge heavy lift.
- [26:12]
B
But. Which is why I think you can't do that honestly, and coach an NFL
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A
team and I guess simultaneously you can't,
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B
you can't do it.
- [26:19]
A
And what I would say about your statement is that he must step down and. Or be told to step down is. I wish I thought we lived in a world where that decision and that outcome was actually on the table at the moment. Because I wonder if anybody in those halls right now, anybody is saying, here's one possible ending of this is we gotta cut ties here. I don't even know if that's being said. And I hope they're talking about everything, but I don't really think it's arguable in a reasonable world to argue against what you're saying because you can't go from this to automatically being like, yeah, don't worry about it. I'm. Don't be like me. That's not what I ever said. I'm here to coach football. It's all I care about. Yeah. Sometimes I, I compromise myself. I don't really love my wife all that much. And you even talked about the fact that, that she, she had a child and named it Michael.
- [27:31]
B
Yeah. You don't, you don't do that just by coincidence.
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A
That's like that. And that she was, she had just gotten engaged to her husband. She had just gotten engaged apparently when this was going on. Yeah.
- [27:47]
B
And to put that tweet out when he was four days old, that's really brazen. I mean, that's a giant set of balls to do that.
- [27:56]
A
Which, which specific tweet? Which one about Nate.
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B
You know, looking at my 4 day old son and wondering, you know, who are the best Michaels to play and coach in the NFL.
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A
Yeah.
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B
That's. That's a big old set of balls right there. And that is that ego and that I'm invincible, I'm untouchable that they displayed.
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A
Say I can do whatever I want.
- [28:14]
B
Yeah. Yep.
- [28:17]
A
Wow. All right. Well, I. More on this as events warrant. And we did for. For everybody who's been angry about. You're obsessed with. Okay, well, we're going to put it in its own place. And we've got a. We have a Bears forward progress for today. And we had this. But that's. I think that's a big statement. I really do. That. That if, if we're really being true about this stuff and honest about this, the right thing for him to do would be to not coach that team anymore.
- [28:45]
B
Yeah. Because the, the NFL can't stand on some higher platform of diversity and unity for all people. And, you know, being good people and being good in your community, helping your community, you just, you can't have it always. You can't. You just can't. And. And he. He. He should no longer be the head coach of an NFL team.
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A
There it is. That is our second forward progress today on 312 sports for progress has stopped.
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B
Forward progress. A Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312 Sports.