Matt Abaticola (3:14)

Anyone asked Ben Johnson yet even in hypothetical how he feels about being sharp for the playoffs or making sure his best players don't get injured?

Patrick Finley (3:27)

We haven't gotten quite there yet. I imagine that that'll be a really relevant question if they're kind of locked in. You know, the other thing is there's a world where the packers could be the 7 seed and if you're the Bears at 2, do you want them in in or do you want to play them at Soldier Field in round one or would you rather slide around? Maybe if you can go to the third seed and let the, the Eagles have to deal with them. I, I think all the wild cards are so strong that you probably wouldn't want to, to monkey with it. I, I think you probably just want to play your starters and, and see where the cards may land. Coming from the Dan Campbell school of football, I don't think Ben Johnson backs down from a whole hell of a lot. So I would imagine that they're going to try and play their best guys as long as they can. Yeah.

Dan Bernstein (4:16)

Patrick, I was looking forward to talking with you because I wanted to talk about that, that game on Saturday night. So you're there at Soldier Field. Bears beat the packers in an improbable fashion when you look at it. So they're, they're down 10 with three minutes to go. How did your, your progression of work change as those final few minutes unfolded from where your brain was at to where I'm going to do this, I'm going to talk to this, I'm going to ask this to what eventually had to happen after they, they win that game.

Patrick Finley (4:46)

This. I mean the Sun Times has great deadlines in terms of print production. But like I had to write a story for the newspaper by, I think the game ended at 10:35ish. I, I had to have something for the newspaper by 11 o'. Clock. Like that appeared in the paper the next day. I'd have something for our website that appeared at two minutes after the game ended. So yeah, it was a little hectic, I can tell you. And I was laughing with somebody about this that I think I had written in my original story. Because you work on your story during the game. I think in my original story I said that of the two quarterbacks in the game, Caleb Williams was the third best quarterback in the game was that he had been outplayed by both Jordan Love and by Malik Willis and that, you know, this was one of those things that they need to win because of Caleb and they weren't doing it. And that this was a big flop for him. And I'll tell you what, up until the 159 mark, I wasn't wrong. And then you saw what he was able to do there at the end. So I spent maybe 15 minutes after kickoff scrambling and writing for the paper, hit the button on that, ran downstairs, got some quotes in the locker room, literally texted them in to the office, the office added them for the print edition. And then I went back upstairs and wrote and wrote and wrote and wrote for our website and got home maybe.

Matt Abaticola (6:06)

About 2:30, 2:45 in the morning early in the week. Maddie and I were talking about the, the two Caleb Williams', the one who can spend a whole game being inaccurate and ineffective and then just burst out in the fourth quarter and has with these incredible numbers and passer efficiency ratings and third down numbers and clutch everything. So we debated is that is, is marrying those two or making the first, second one, Is that a problem to be solved or not? That's the first question. Is that something to say how do we make this guy into that guy and that guy into this guy? So let me, I'll have you answer that first before I ask the next question. Is, is that a some, is that a project? Is that an action item for Ben Johnson?

Patrick Finley (7:03)

Is it what the old joke about, you know, why not make the whole plan out of the black box? Why not make the whole game plan out of Caleb Williams in the, in the final minute or two. I, I can tell you this, I think Caleb gets in more of a rhythm when you just say we gotta go here bud. Like let's go. And I don't think that's how Ben Johnson wants to coach. I don't think that's how the Bears want to play. When you look at what they've done since the bye week in week five, so much more pre snap motion, so much more cadence and it's. Caleb has nailed it. As much as we talked it to death in the first month of the season, the pre snap stuff is really good. And the run game as a result is the best run game in football statistically because of it. Caleb's passing I think has suffered because he just, it's just not the let's get it and go, let's not think, let's get into rhythm that he does at the end of games and that he did, quite frankly, in college. I, I think the Bears want to have that strong run game. I think that they want to be built for December and January football. And I think they think that having to, you know, having to play with your hair on fire as the clock runs out isn't, isn't a way to live. Although when Caleb can do it, it sure has saved them a bunch of time.

Matt Abaticola (8:18)

So then the next question is, is it mechanics? Is it game planning? Is it a defense that is leading the game, allowing the middle of the field to be open because they' more of the inside out leverage, knowing that the middle of the field is their friend time wise? Can it be, can it be done? And should Ben Johnson be trying to create more situations that bring out all this greatness?

Patrick Finley (8:52)

Boy, that's a good question. Maybe. I think what it is, is, you're right. I think some of it is Caleb has gotten a lot better on in breaking stuff as the season has gone on. And I think that you see a lot of that available toward the end of the game when you're trying to get down the field. I think Caleb's willingness to run goes up in gotta have it moments. You know, he, you know, you even see it now, he's been more aggressive running maybe in the last six weeks, but you know, in the second, second down in the second quarter is a whole different thing than with the clock running down in the fourth. And I think that that's made him dangerous. Not necessarily on Saturday, but you know, you look at the Bengals game, for example, you look at other examples of him being able to run. I, I don't know whether you want to build the whole thing out of this. If you were a dome team, if you were a warm weather team, I think it would make a lot of sense to play a lot of kind of spread concept stuff. But that's not what Ben's. I don't think that's the identity Ben wants his team to have. And I mean, it's hard to argue with a run game that like, let's put it this way, the run game is the best in the league since the buy and the second best in the league overall. I don't know that Caleb Williams pass offense will ever get to the point where it's sitting either one or two, even if you decide to, to kind of go hair on fire the whole time.

Dan Bernstein (10:15)

Yeah, that's interesting. So following up on those two questions, it seems like you have two different Philosophies and how to, how to marry those two philosophies. And obviously the head coach is going to win out in the game planning, in the scheme, in the philosophy of what the team's identity is. Is it a concern to try to coach out some of what his natural skill set is and, and trying to force him into being this more disciplined pocket passer that maybe his natural skills don't fit to? And if that's the case, does that lower the ceiling of what he can do as an NFL passer?

Patrick Finley (10:49)

Boy, I, first of all, I think there's one philosophy, and the philosophy is the philosophy of the head coach. I think everything else, Everything else is just window dressing. Yeah, it may lower his ceiling in terms of statistical prowess. I think that I, I find it hard to disagree with almost anything Ben stands for offensively. When you look at what he's done this season. And when you look, so long as you're playing outside in Chicago and not in a dome in Munster, Indiana or Arlington Heights or whatever you're doing, I think you're going to need to run it when you have to run it. And I think the best thing you can say about this offense this year is that the run game has made it easy for them to compensate for injuries to their wide receivers. It's made them compensate for really cold periods by their quarterback. I mean, this is true for Caleb. It takes Caleb a while to get going usually. And, you know, he does reach, you know, he does hit lulls. And boy, that run game is an answer to a lot of those things that bother him. Even Cole Comet was saying the other day, like, you know, we talk about how they, you know, they've won without Rome, they've won without burden. You know, DJ Moore had been hobbled for very delicate reasons earlier in the season. They managed to win without him. And a lot of that is because when you can get 5.1, 4.8 yards a pop in the run game, that really, that really makes life easier.

Dan Bernstein (12:16)

Hey, maybe I missed it, but was there, was there more discovery on, on DJ Moore's injury, what he was dealing with there? Maybe I missed it reading it somewhere or hearing it somewhere, but it seemed like you might have a little.

Patrick Finley (12:27)

He got blindsided. Yeah. Start early in the game. I, I, not to my knowledge. There hasn't been. Okay. With DJ postgame. I didn't ask about it, but, you know, especially when you watch that locker room video, it was, you know, Ben Johnson, the first thing he said about D.J. was that he got knocked down pretty Good. But knew that his teammates needed him. I'll tell you this, we can quibble with a lot of DJ Moore's production this year, but boy, he is attitude wise. He's exactly what they want in terms of toughness and in terms of being able to answer the ball.

Matt Abaticola (13:00)

I also think I got to put up with some, some routes that are less than 100% run when he's not getting the ball. I think that maybe if I'm going to fixate on that, it's, it's going to take my eye off what really matters, that he is, he is there when it matters. But I don't want to blame it on injury, but just I've been very hard on him because I know that a lot of what Ben Johnson in his mind doesn't work unless the wide receiver not getting the ball runs the route as if he is. Yeah, everything's got to be full bore.

Patrick Finley (13:34)

Well, and that's, I mean, philosophically, that's why when the board broke their way in the draft where, you know, I mean, they wanted a left tackle and a running back and they wound up getting a tight end and a wide receiver with their first two picks. But when it broke that way, that they were okay with it because they like the threat of if you don't do this, we got other guys who can do it. You know, we were doing some homework today. There are six different receivers have led the Bears in receiving in a game this season or six different pass catchers like, like they might only have eight pass catchers. That's a pretty amazing stat. Yeah. And D.J. i find it hard to be critical of D.J. saturday at least. You know, there was that play, the second to last drive of regulation where he wasn't lined up in time, but he wasn't lined up in time because he was exhausted and he looked like he was going to fall down. Even when he caught the touchdown in overtime, he laid there like he'd been shot for about 30 seconds. I, I think that there, I think that he gutted through not only an injury, but pretty serious usage. A lot of receivers came off the field, but DJ Was on it for most of it.

Matt Abaticola (14:43)

Let me follow up on that real quick. When Olamide Zacchaeus had his first game full of drops, I think there were two. Was it the commander's game where he was just unreliable and everyone's like, well, you know, now it's time. Luther Burden needs those snaps. And it happened. It really was true that it took, you know, within a couple games, Luther Burden was getting the bulk of that work. That was another terrible drop by Zacchaeus at a critical time. And now here comes Jed A. Walker and the same questions you're being here. Well, who's this, this guy and why doesn't this guy get the can? Are they in a situation presuming Burden and Adunze come back, or at least Burden comes back. Do you trust Zakus? Is this something that one way or another, you, you can't put him in a position where he's going to have to do something to decide their fate?

Patrick Finley (15:38)

Oh, boy, that's a good question. I think I'd trust Zacchaeus more than I trust John A. Walker. Johnny Walker before Saturday, had eight career snaps, zero career targets. He's a great story. He's a great personality, and I think he's going to help them for, you know, next year and going forward. But I think the question, the better question in my mind may be, do you trust Zakias or do you trust an extra helping of Colston loved one? Or do you trust Zakius or do you trust Cole Comet? Or, you know, maybe you go with two, three tight end, you know, sets, sometimes a little more than you would otherwise. I don't know. I, I tend to want a veteran, you know, provided that he can catch the. Catch the damn football. I, in these times, I want a guy who's been there before and Zakus, you know, he was on that Commander's team last year that beat the Lions in the playoffs. The Bears don't have a lot of guys with playoff experience walking around. It's, you know, I think I wrote this the other day, you know, for everyone, there may be 10 or 12 who don't have it. And I would lean into that if I were the Bears.

Dan Bernstein (16:44)

Yeah, and I totally understand that perspective on a Patrick because I just, but I just question the fact that how does playoff experience benefit the young quarterback or the young team trying to get that experience when the veteran is not catching the ball?

Patrick Finley (16:58)

That's fair. Yeah, that's fair. I, it just theoretically, I mean, you, I mean, you have to catch the ball.

Dan Bernstein (17:05)

Yeah, yeah.

Patrick Finley (17:07)

If it's a jump ball, I would, I would, I would trend toward the guy, the guy who's done it. I mean, this is one of my favorite parts of this season is, you know, you have Cole Comet, Montez Sweat, Andrew Billings. It's pretty long list. There are others, DJ Moore who had never played on a winning team until this year. Forget playoffs, winning team, it's crazy. And, and yeah, and maybe they don't. Maybe this like one of those, you know, young baseball teams or young or, you know, maybe even Oklahoma City last year in basketball, where they don't know that this is supposed to be hard, but kind of waiting to see whether. Kind of waiting to see whether the moment becomes too big for them or not.

Dan Bernstein (17:50)

Go ahead, Danny.

Matt Abaticola (17:51)

We know that the, the pass rush from the front four is just unacceptably unproductive right now. They're not going to win anything. No matter what defense they play, no matter what scheme they're in, it's not going to work until that group gets better at what they do. Is there, is there a solution? Is there something else that can be done? Now that Booker has moved in to replace Odengbo, it does look like they were rotating Billings out a bit to have somebody who is a bit more upfield disruptive, certainly quicker and a better mover. But the more I move the pieces around on the board, I, I have. I end up with more questions than answers because I. We've seen them get burned by the blitz, and as they are seeing better quarterbacks, it's going to become even more risky. I'm just worried that this is what keeps them from winning playoff games, their lack of pass pressure from. From their defensive line.

Patrick Finley (18:52)

I was telling somebody about this today. I think that takeaways without a pass rush register in my mind is more lucky than anything else, and that has been my concern for most of the season, is that if this dries up or if this just reverts to the mean, then you've got a defense that looks really ordinary. I think Grady Jarrett played probably his best game with the Bears on Saturday. You felt him, he was a lot of places, but he can't be. He can't be your pass rush. And, and he was more active really in the run than, Than anything else. Montes sweat, I think, is playing a really consistent brand of football. And I know with what you're paying him, and it's like DJ Moore with what you're paying him, you need him to be undeniable. And I don't think he's undeniable, but I think he's been very good. I, I don't know what the solution is. Like, the guys you have are the guys you have at this point. You know, there's some thought that Kyler Gordon may come back from injury and time to play in the playoffs, but, you know, blitzing a nickel corner isn't the answer to it. To all your pass rush issues like you said, boy, look at those NFC teams. And I mean, short of maybe Bryce Young, every quarterback that could potentially line up against them in the playoffs is somebody who's not going to be too scared by a nickel blitz, you know.

Dan Bernstein (20:14)

Then after the game, Ben Johnson talked specifically about one area that he wasn't pleased with, and that was the penalties. I know they, I think they had 10 for 105 yards, but four of those were the 15 yard variety. And two of those I think are the ones that really stuck in his brain from what I heard, from what he said. And it was the two against Booker that were part of the process of play. And I don't think you can be upset about those. They weren't delivered. He wasn't trying to go out and hurt Jordan Love on either case, despite what Howie Long might have said on Fox. It's the two that bothered him were the two that bothered me. Demarco Jackson and then Jalen Johnson. Very deliberate elbow to the helmet when the quarterback gives himself up. What was Brisker? I'm sorry? Yes, yes, yes. Thank you, God. I said that earlier today, too. Jaquan Brisker. Thank you so much for correcting that. So those two plays, was there any conversation in the locker room, anything you heard from coaches about those two particular plays, especially the DeMarco Jackson one, which is completely ridiculously stupid on the first.

Patrick Finley (21:13)

Play of the game, too. That's. Yeah, that's. That makes it bad. I'm trying to find the quote I have in front of me. But what Ben said essentially was that it's unacceptable. What he said was three of the four were. And it was the first, Brisker roughing the passer, which was three plays into the game. I think it was the first, third down and, and you had the, the demarco Jackson, reigning NFC Defensive Player of the week. Demarco Jackson, the first player, and then Brisker in the fourth quarter, he just said, you know, you can't do that and expect to win games. And he said something that's interesting and I think we usually hear this out of defensive minded coaches, but he said, you know, people were amped. You know, we were amped for this game. And I don't want to take that away. Like, I think he's good with them playing with an edge, just. But you got to walk right up to that line and be smart enough to not cross it.

Matt Abaticola (22:01)

It reminds me of what they said when they drafted Shemar Turner because he's had a history of being on the other side of that edge. Collegiately And I remember when they picked him, and I read that in the scouting report, and I said, fine, fine. I'd much rather have that something that I need to rein in and control and figure out than somebody under whom I have to light a fire.

Patrick Finley (22:26)

Yeah, I don't think you want him punching anybody in the gentleman's area the way he did.

Matt Abaticola (22:31)

Oh, I've got a list of people. I want him to do that too.

Dan Bernstein (22:33)

Are you kidding?

Matt Abaticola (22:35)

I can start naming people I want. I'll hire Shamar Turner to do it to people.

Patrick Finley (22:40)

What is it that. I mean, what is it they say in the NBA was that you can have one crazy person, but you can't have two? And I think, And I'm not. I'm not saying Shamar Turner is crazy, but, you know, I think one of the reasons C.J. garner Johnson has worked is because like, he. There. There aren't three of them. Like, there's like there's one of them. And sometimes brisker kind of does. Gets a little carried away.

Dan Bernstein (23:04)

Yeah, but.

Patrick Finley (23:05)

But really it works when. When you're surrounded by 10 other guys with a temperament that's not quite so fiery. Ben did say, like, listen, nobody wants to see Jordan Love getting a concussion and that. It's hard for. It's hard to find a coaching point out of that because it was bang, bang. And he didn't say it, but, you know, I mean, we've all seen it. You know, Booker can't lead with his head, but Love kind of ducked his helmet in at the end too. You know, Ben wasn't. Maybe he was apologetic about the outcome, but he wasn't apologetic. He, you know, he kind of said that one aside, the other three were unacceptable.

Matt Abaticola (23:46)

Did you see what Ben Johnson was talking about after the game about his headset and about him saying that he lost his temper for the first time? Yeah, I didn't see it.

Patrick Finley (23:57)

I didn't either.

Matt Abaticola (23:57)

Okay, so what? Well, I don't know what happened. Was he caught saying, was he working blue or was he yelling? I don't know what was going on.

Patrick Finley (24:06)

The impression I got was that his headset went out and that he kind of flipped out. We did not follow up on that in our day after diagnosis with him. I. I will do that at some point this week because quite frankly, stories about Ben Johnson's temper are awesome. And his. I mean, his. DJ Moore said, you know, you know, the other day somebody asked about, like, kind of Ben's power of persuasion, and, you know, DJ said, you essentially either want to get screamed at or you don't. And that's the, that's the motivation Ben uses. So yeah, no, we'll follow up on.

Dan Bernstein (24:38)

That and a quick follow up too. We talked about it earlier in one of our shows this week about the the cheese grater that DJ Moore had on immediately after the game. Caleb seemed to be wearing one the next day doing community work. Do we know where those came from? Did they any anybody ask on that or try to find out if DJ just happen to have one, if they took one from a fan after the game was over and why he decided.

Patrick Finley (25:01)

To wear it and I don't know where it came from. I think that the same people who decided to jump on good better best T shirts need to jump on cheese graters and see how much money you can make in the next two weeks of the regular season here. Because there's a, I mean there's a. I think the most likely playoff scenario right now is Bears number two seed at home, packers number seven seed on the road, and to get them again would be great theater. It's a tough 27 game by the way.

Dan Bernstein (25:29)

Oh yeah, for sure.

Patrick Finley (25:30)

But boy, when you look at the other nfc, at the NFC west teams that are there, I, I don't know if it's any much tougher than if you had to. You know, maybe weather wise you'd like to bring San Francisco here but or LA here but I think all of those teams are are really, really good.

Matt Abaticola (25:49)

I wonder how and we don't know this because Ben Johnson's never been ahead coach before but while obviously you'll ask about how he sort of husbands his resources here and balances risk reward, I wonder how much contact there will be in practice at this point because of how important tackling is. And you don't hit a lot during the year. You don't get guys ready to go physically. And Tez has told me since, you know, the 30 years when I started on the beat, they all say that the NFL is different from college and rookies learn that. But people who haven't been to the playoffs before don't realize how different playoff football is, how much more physical it is that even if, as they say, they give their best in every regular season game, it is different. And I'm wondering for doing this for the first time now how Ben Johnson can can explain to his guys and coach this difference.

Patrick Finley (26:55)

The NFLPA puts a limit on how many padded practices you can have in the course of a year. I believe the bears either have 0 or 1 remaining so okay, so, so they, they can be as physical as they want, but they can't be, they can't wear anything to protect themselves. I, I think that, I think that's a great question, and I think what makes it a great question is, I'm thinking back to July. The Bears had a training camp practice that was the most violent practice I've ever seen. And, and I said that at, I don't know, 20 minutes in when, Holy, my God. And, you know, people were leaving injured. We had really good seats for it. The media was pretty close by. So you heard the talking, you heard the, you heard the, the crack of the pads, all that sort of good stuff. And Ryan Poles later told me, like, like when the, when they brought up the huddle at the end, like, nobody was mad. Like, everybody believed that that just got them better and that that might have been the moment of training camp where polls went, oh, man, I think this head coach may be a really good head coach. Not that he didn't believe it before, but you just kind of never know until you're actually in charge. Right. And I, I, I think that physicality is a gigantic part of what Ben wants the Bears to be and of what Ben thinks of himself as. I mean, as an offensive coordinator. Like, you know, I think he says, you know, I'm happy to run 50 times a game or, or throw 50 times a game. I think if it were him, I think if you were in the basement playing a game of Madden with him, I think he'd hand the ball off 50 times a game and get great joy out of pummeling you that way. So that's a great question. How do you get across that idea of we're going to be tougher than the next guy without being able to legally do it? It's a good question. And also, you know, I don't have a lot of playoff reporter experience, and I need to, I need to find out, can, you know, do you get an extra padded practice or two if you make the postseason?

Dan Bernstein (29:00)

Do you know off the top of your head what that number is of padded practices that they get?

Patrick Finley (29:04)

It's like eight, something like that.

Dan Bernstein (29:06)

So they get eight for the entire year.

Patrick Finley (29:08)

Something. Yeah, something. Yeah, It's a smaller number than you'd think.

Matt Abaticola (29:11)

And that's, that's once they break camp, right?

Patrick Finley (29:14)

Yes. During the regular season. Yeah.

Dan Bernstein (29:16)

So once camp breaks, they get eight padded practices or that they're about somewhere in that number?

Patrick Finley (29:21)

Something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, yeah, it's, I mean, and you Understand why. But, but yeah, yeah, it's a good reminder that, you know, so, you know, there aren't these tackling drills that I think we all have in our head when we think of, of a football practice. You know, like you said, maybe more at the college level than anything else.

Matt Abaticola (29:40)

Something else I found interesting from the last game was hearing Cairo Santos discuss his control over the timing of the field goal snap. When watching the swaying of the goal posts and he's trying to, to, to understand he's looking at the clock. He gives the signal to Tori Taylor, who gives the signal to Scott Daly to say, now let's go. And I was getting a little frustrated watching. What are you waiting for?

Dan Bernstein (30:10)

What are you waiting.

Patrick Finley (30:10)

Come on, let's go.

Matt Abaticola (30:11)

Let's go, let's go. What's screwing up here? And what it was, was no different than any of us standing on the 10th tee and waiting for a gust to subside.

Patrick Finley (30:22)

Right?

Matt Abaticola (30:23)

That's, that's what he was doing. Today. I learned that he has that kind of, of autonomy because he's the golfer, he's the guy who's going to be swinging that thing, and it's completely up to him.

Patrick Finley (30:37)

Do you know what's funny? When, when he failed to kick the ball through the back of the end zone in week one and they decided to bring in practice squad kicker, there were, I knew some people who were concerned that his job was in danger. I didn't think it was, but my, my, my thought for Ben Johnson was that Ben Johnson was a guy coming from a dome team, coming from before that, Miami, who, I didn't know whether he had an appreciation for just how hard it was to kick at Soldier Field and how hard it was in the winter and in the late fall to kick at Soldier Field. And in a way, judging Cairo Santos on what he does in September is kind of missing the point, right? Boy, I, I don't know anybody who takes him for granted after what we saw the other day, that was really tough. And he said after the game, somebody said, is this is. Somebody asked, you know, how rough the conditions were. And he went all the way back to Christmas Eve of 2022 in which the Bears got their butts kicked at home by Josh Allen and the Bills. And I think game time temperature was 9 and by the way, just a miserable experience spending Christmas Eve watching them losing 9 degree weather and. But that's as far back as he had to go to find a game that came close to this one, which is strange because a week earlier they played A game where it was so cold that, you know, that it affected Cairo's kicking. And this was the one, this one was trickier, he thought. And, boy, when you're talking about the playoffs and when you're talking about a home field advantage, there are probably 25 kickers in the league that would not have gone 3 for 3 the way Cairo Santos did, much less, you know, that extra point. And maybe I've seen too much Bears football in my life. The extra point at the end of regulation, like I was, you know, there are times as a reporter where they line up for the extra point. You've got your head in your laptop and scrambling to write the story on deadline. I stopped, took a deep breath and watched it because the pressure on that and the level of difficulty on that was, was pretty big.

Dan Bernstein (32:42)

You know, speaking of Cavar Santos, if you would have asked me halfway through the season if there was a coaching staff change that would be made for next year, I would have probably looked at Richard Hightower with the play of the special teams. But yet the second half of this season, not only have they been doing their jobs and executing like they need to that phase of the game, but they've actually contributed and helped in field position, in wins. You saw what happened yesterday as well, too. Or yesterday, but on Saturday night with Josh Blackwell making yet another plan, special teams to help get a win for the team. What's happened with special teams with, with Richard Hightower, or is it just a matter of their executing plays better or has anything adjusted or changed?

Patrick Finley (33:24)

I don't think there's been a fundamental change there. You know, what goes unsaid, too. I think Tori Taylor is one of the best five, six punters in the league. I'm not sure that, I'm not sure what he has to do to justify his draft position. Maybe that's, maybe that's impossible. But yeah, you're right. Things seem to have settled down a little bit. And I think that the experience level of Hightower in these conditions is notable too. I, I think that, you know, I would have a hard time bringing in somebody wasn't used to the, the, you know, the weather here. I, I don't think that there was any sort of fundamental change. And, you know, a lot of the good things that special teams has done in the last month has come when they're losing backups to defense. I mean, DeMarco Jackson was one of their better special teams players and they kept him on some stuff, but, you know, when he's the starting, you know, when he's starting middle linebacker for four weeks. They're hampered there, and I. I think Hightower's done just fine. One of the things Ben was saying the other day is a lot of times the staff you have in your first year isn't great because you kind of don't know how you work with everybody and you don't know the flaws of some of the people you've hired. And he said he was making the opposite point about this one. He said, boy, like, it sounded like he couldn't be happier with the guys he has. And I'm sure there'll be some turnover. I mean, there always is. Yeah. But, you know, I don't know that any of. I don't know that Declan Doyle is going to go become anybody's offensive coordinator. If, you know, at his age, he hasn't called a lot of plays ever. I don't think Dennis Allen's gonn go be anybody's head coach. And because of that, boy, you gotta like the continuity that comes with it.

Matt Abaticola (35:02)

That's what I was going to ask in this year of already, not just the NFL, but in the college ranks, too, to have the. The amount of volatility in coaching in general and the number of jobs that are going to change the fact that we have yet to hear in a year where there's this kind of support, prize success. We haven't heard anything. There hasn't been a peep about, oh, the Bears might lose this guy or the Bears might lose that guy. And with this success comes so many of these opportunities, guys crawling all over each other. I haven't heard a rumor.

Patrick Finley (35:35)

Nothing. No. And of the guys they have, it may be the position coaches that are the sexier options, you know, if they're there at all. I mean, you know, Antoine Randall is a just force of nature. And I don't have to explain to you guys what he means to Chicago, but, you know, just personality wise, he's one of those guys that, you know when he's in the room before he ever says a word. Al Harris has been tremendous for them, and he was replacing a guy in John Hoke who's as respected as any DBs coach I've ever been around. And still, there's a pretty big leap that was made there. I. I don't know whether Antoine Randall wants to call plays somewhere else. He's technically the assistant head coach here. I don't know that you could make him a head coach without him calling plays. I don't know whether Al Harris would be a good defensive coordinator. But you know, those might be the names that I circled if I were trying to pick apart the Bears staff. Like you said though, it's, it's, there's no obvious connection anywhere in terms of where somebody might land.

Dan Bernstein (36:44)

And Patrick, last thing I have for you is We've talked about DeAndre Swift quite a bit over the last couple weeks and what we have seen in our observation of watching the games. He seems to be a different running back now than what we saw at the start of the year. Not only running harder but with better vision and where he's moving with the football. Is that a byproduct of this scheme and the setup that Ben Johnson has in the run game or is there something that is just an extra motivated like he's, he's got, he's, he's like increased a gear or level in his play as the year's gone on.

Patrick Finley (37:17)

Remember what DJ Morris said about you either want to get yelled at or you don't. I think there's a lot of that to this. I, I think it's, I think it's Ben Johnson being intense. I think it's been. Well, first of all, Ben Johnson is a run game savant who comes up with cool play action stuff like that's if you had to explain it right away. He's a run coach first and a lot of what he has come up with is really good. Good. To make that work though, Swift has had to stay on the right track and hit the hole at the right time that the fact that he is doing it is credit to him first but it's also a credit to Johnson and really Eric B. Enemy. And you know, when we talk about where potential Bears assistance could end up, I guess you could make a case for B. Enemy going to become somebody's offensive coordinator. But I think the pro the thing he's proven this year said Eric B. Enemy is a hell of a running backs coach and, and I, I don't know whether that translates into a promotion or whether you' kind of Peter principling yourself out of it. He has really gotten these guys to, to do what they need them to do and I don't think it's as surprising to me that Kyle Manunga's done it just in terms of he's a rookie. Of course he's going to do what you tell him he has to do. But DeAndre Swift's a vet in the league, a pretty decorated guy. He's made a lot of money and for him to transform the way he runs to make it less like the way DeAndre wants to run and more like the way Ben wants him to run, I think is a tremendous credit to him.

Matt Abaticola (38:45)

Patrick Finley, this was terrific. And as always, we appreciate you taking time out of your day to do it. Thanks so much.

Patrick Finley (38:51)

Anytime, guys. Thank you, everybody.

Dan Bernstein (38:53)

We'll talk to you. Take care.

Matt Abaticola (38:54)

That's Patrick Finley of the Chicago Sun Times, longtime Bears beat guy. He and Jason Leisure doing a tremendous job as part of what I think is the best covered sports beat in the city overall by our local media.

Dan Bernstein (39:10)

You know, there's something you said earlier and you said it on a show last week maybe, and I never heard the word husband used as a verb. And you've said it now twice. But husbanding resources.

Matt Abaticola (39:23)

Yes.

Dan Bernstein (39:24)

I'd never heard that used as a verb before.

Matt Abaticola (39:26)

I think I've used it correctly.

Patrick Finley (39:28)

No, you have.

Dan Bernstein (39:29)

No, you 100. And I double checked it because, I mean, your vocabulary is much greater than my own. But yeah, no, you used it correctly. And I just never had heard it used as a verb before in husbanding resources.

Matt Abaticola (39:41)

To use resources or economically conserve. Well, it comes as. There's the old Tom Lehrer joke where there was a, like he said something. He went away to school where he majored in animal husbandry until somebody caught him at it. So that I was a kid when I heard that. It's on an album. It's an album called An Evening Wasted with Tom Lehrer, which.

Dan Bernstein (40:11)

Oh, not the news guy.

Matt Abaticola (40:12)

No.

Dan Bernstein (40:13)

Yeah, you're okay.

Matt Abaticola (40:14)

That's Jim Lehrer.

Dan Bernstein (40:15)

Oh, Jim Lehrer.

Matt Abaticola (40:16)

Tom Lehrer passed away recently. He was an absolute American treasure. And he. It was called An Evening Wasted with Tom Lehrer recorded, I think in 1957, a concert at Harvard. And I'd had the album forever, since I was like a kid and I loved it. I memorized it. And I never got that joke before until, until later in life. Like, oh, that's what it is. So he majored in animal understanding, animal resources, but he was caught. Oh, I get it now. That's why they were all laughing. Okay. Yes. Well, thank you. Every once in a while, I'll. My brain will find a word. They're in there.

Dan Bernstein (40:57)

No, they're, they're, they're definitely.

Matt Abaticola (40:59)

I spend, I spend enough time trying to challenge myself to have them come out in proper time and order.

Dan Bernstein (41:06)

That was good stuff with, with Patrick. Always enjoy having a conversation with him.

Matt Abaticola (41:10)

Yeah, always. As we do here on Forward Progress. And we'll continue to do so. We're always here for you on Forward Progress, a Chicago Bears podcast on 312 Sports.

Dan Bernstein (41:29)

Forward Progress, a Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312Sports.

Patrick Finley (41:42)

It.