The Next Evolution of Caleb Williams

Summary

Forward Progress - A Chicago Bears Podcast

Episode: The Next Evolution of Caleb Williams
Date: July 30, 2026
Hosts: Dan Bernstein & Matt Abbatacola

---

Episode Overview

This episode of Forward Progress revolves around the development of Chicago Bears quarterback Caleb Williams as he enters his third NFL season and his second year under head coach Ben Johnson. With training camp underway, Bernstein and Abbatacola analyze Williams' growth, discuss key changes and challenges for the Bears, and offer authentic, often humorous, insights into the state of the team. The episode also touches on changes in defensive personnel, leadership emerging in camp, and the ever-shifting dynamics of the NFC North.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Caleb Williams: Bouncing Back & Growing into Leadership

• Resilience After a Rocky Rookie Year:

  • Williams now enters his third year but just his second under Ben Johnson. His rookie season, under Coach Matt Eberflus, was marked by dysfunction—largely discounted by both hosts as a developmental “wash” due to the chaotic environment and poor protection.
  • Quote:
    “We praise him a lot, we give him a lot of credit, but there's something there, that resilience, that bounce back after that terrible rookie season…” — Matt Abbatacola [01:07]

• New Center, New Chemistry:

  • Williams is on his third starting center in as many seasons, highlighting yet another obstacle for a young quarterback. The current contenders: Logan Jones and Garrett Bradbury.
    • “He's going to have a third starting center to open up his time with the Chicago Bears.” — Matt Abbatacola [01:47]

• Confidence in the Ben Johnson Offense:

  • Williams has mastered the baseline offense and now the playbook is expanding. Both hosts note this is a trope every time a coach/quarterback pairing enters year two, but they stress the Johnson/Williams combo feels genuinely promising, unlike past regimes.
  • Quote:
    “The difference is we actually think this coach is good.” — Dan Bernstein [03:03]

• On Field Authority & Communication:

  • Williams is “starting to sound like a coach,” relaying information with authority and confidence — a sign of real leadership development.
  • Quote:
    “…when he talks, it sounds like a coach talking. Now I love to hear that because he's your leader...talking from a position of authority and confidence...” — Matt Abbatacola [05:21]

• Challenging Offense, Processing Speed, and QB-Coach Alignment:

  • Both discuss whether the offense was too complex at first, but conclude that high-level offenses are supposed to be difficult. The true test is Williams thinking “like Ben Johnson” so that play-calling and adaptation are seamless.
  • Quote:
    “The whole idea...is Caleb Williams thinking like Ben Johnson without Ben Johnson having to tell him what he's thinking.” — Dan Bernstein [07:48]

---

2. Coaching Style, Trust, and QB-Coach Relationships

• The ‘Tough Love’ of Ben Johnson:

  • Williams recalls thinking Coach Johnson didn’t like him at first; Johnson is described as direct, intense, and even profane — a drastic shift from Eberflus’ style.
  • “He’s going to scream at him, he’s going to swear at him… but now he understands it differently.” — Matt Abbatacola [09:09]
  • The story prompts both hosts to reminisce about adjusting to different coaching personalities and the importance of intent behind intensity.

• Collaboration & Growth:

  • Johnson and Williams review film together, focusing on incompletions and communication — a sign of healthy, demanding mentorship.

3. Post-Snap Recognition & Divisional Changes

• Williams’ Next Evolution: Faster Post-Snap Processing:

  • The focus in year two: reading defenses after the snap, anticipating complex looks from Green Bay’s new defensive philosophy under Jonathan Gannon, as well as frequent changes across the NFC North.
  • “[Caleb] even talked about these yesterday...the post snap, like to recognize quicker when the defenses shift and change.” — Matt Abbatacola [12:39]

• Continuity on Defense:

  • Bears’ entire defensive staff returns, the only team in the NFC North with full continuity on one side of the ball. Green Bay and Minnesota introduce major changes, which could potentially give Chicago a competitive edge as others adjust.

4. Trust in Ben Johnson: Internal & External Validation

• Coaches & Media Share Optimism:

  • The new offensive coordinator, Press Taylor, is openly bullish about Johnson’s impact:
    • “When he steps on the field, there's a certain look in his eyes and you get excited on our side because we have Ben… that's part of the process of why do you think you're going to win? We have Ben.” — Press Taylor (read by Dan Bernstein) [15:24]

• Media and Public Reactions:

  • The hosts acknowledge both skepticism (“we’ve heard this before”) and the legitimate new hope that comes from Johnson’s reputation and the team’s progress.

5. Health Updates & Personnel Competition

• Roma Dunze’s “New Normal” Clarified:

  • Dunze’s cryptic earlier remarks about his foot condition are retracted; he now says he feels great and the comment was misinterpreted. [15:53]

• Nickel Corner Battle:

  • With Kyler Gordon injured, Jalen Jones has so far worked with the starters at nickel. Other contenders include Josh Blackwell, Cam Lewis, and rookie Malik Muhammad.
    • “…it was Jalen Jones working with the starters at nickel corner.” — Dan Bernstein [17:22]

• No Guarantees for Returning Players:

  • Ryan Poles (by way of the hosts) says even when Gordon returns, he has to earn his spot back — nothing is being gifted.
    • “That lack of trust that…he is completely, entirely outside of the circle of trust.” — Matt Abbatacola [18:10]
    • “They don't trust him right now… They called him soft and they want him to prove he's tough enough to get out there and play.” — Dan Bernstein [18:29]

6. Camp Culture, Humor, & Memorable Moments

• Patrick Finley’s Iconic Camp Drawings:

  • Bears beat reporter Patrick Finley once again posts his infamous stick-figure sketches of camp moments, featuring multi-football chaos and other whimsical details, delighting both hosts and fans for their inside-joke status.
    • “I love the way he drew the cleats on Khalif Raymond's shoes, too.” — Dan Bernstein [20:09]
    • “How many footballs are there, Dan?” — Matt Abbatacola [20:41]

• Leadership Emerging in Camp:

  • Kobe Bryant, a new addition from Seattle, is highlighted as a vocal leader for the defense, described by the staff as “fast, violent, smart, instinctive.” The hosts brainstorm possible acronyms [23:29–24:17].

7. Nostalgia & The Evolution of Toughness

• Secondary Turnover Not Always Fatal:

  • Bernstein recalls the 1985 Bears losing key defensive players to holdouts and still thriving, using it as context for optimism this year [25:01].

• Changing Nature of Training Camp:

  • The hosts joke about missing the old, gritty, fight-filled practices while noting the culture has shifted toward less physicality and more professionalism [35:00].

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The difference is we actually think this coach is good.” — Dan Bernstein [03:03]
• “When he talks, it sounds like a coach talking. Now I love to hear that because he's your leader…” — Matt Abbatacola [05:21]
• “I want him to sound like Ben Johnson.” — Dan Bernstein [08:13]
• “We have Ben… that's part of the process of why do you think you're going to win? We have Ben.” — Press Taylor, as read by Bernstein [15:24]
• “They called him soft and…they want him to prove he's tough enough to get out there and play.” — Dan Bernstein [18:29]
• Running joke about Patrick Finley’s stick-figure art “giving away secrets,” and footballs multiplying on the practice field. [20:09–21:32]
• “I love a training camp fight of two guys that aren't making the roster.” — Matt Abbatacola [34:50]
• Extended banter about golf, aging, and therapy, with a self-aware aside about going off-topic (“there’s our segment on Forward Progress that will make you angry because it’s not about football”) [31:16]

---

Important Segment Timestamps

• Caleb Williams’ Growth Year Two: [01:07–06:41]
• QB-Coach Relationship & Johnson’s Style: [08:10–11:16]
• Post-Snap Processing & NFC North Changes: [12:39–14:30]
• Optimism in Ben Johnson (Press Taylor quote): [15:24]
• Roma Dunze Injury Clarification: [15:53]
• Nickel Corner Rotation & Kyler Gordon’s Status: [16:47–18:29]
• Patrick Finley’s Drawings & Camp Humor: [19:20–21:32]
• Kobe Bryant & Defensive Leadership: [22:42–24:17]
• Team Nostalgia & Training Camp Brawls: [25:01–35:00]
• Golf/Therapy Tangent (off-topic): [26:08–31:16]

---

Summary & Tone

This episode combines analytical depth with the characteristic wit of Bernstein and Abbatacola. The tone is candid and passionate, mixing technical football critique, Bears history, and relatable fan humor. Listeners who haven’t heard the show will come away understanding the Bears’ current developmental arc, the very real optimism surrounding Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson, and the evolving culture of a franchise eager to reset its identity in a changing NFL landscape.

Transcript

[Dan Bernstein]

I mean, if you're a Bears fan, you're thinking, forward progress.

[Matt Abeticola]

Come on. Forward Progress, a Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312 Sports.

[Dan Bernstein]

Forward progress is brought to you by Giordano's Back to school means back to bus practices, homework, and everything in between. Give yourself a break with Giordano's. Treat the kids and yourself to Chicago Style Pizza. Everyone can agree on. Make tonight a giordano's night@giordano's.com or visit your local Giordano's restaurant. Today, Giordano's the one for Chicago Style Pizza. Well, we're getting into a rhythm now. The Bears are actually out there practicing, as Dennis Allen described in their underpants. But you can still try to learn some things. We got a little bit of information. And Caleb Williams met the media yesterday as well.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah, Caleb starts year three in the NFL, his second year, of course, under Ben Johnson. What I just want to point out real quick about that, just that, that very idea that he deserves a lot of credit, that young man, for bouncing back after year one in the final year of Matt Eberflus. And what that was, the dysfunction, the train wreck of a season that was the number of sacks that were allowed by the Chicago Bears in that season, partly because of Caleb Williams, partly because of the offensive line. But, you know, I don't know. I mean, we praise him a lot, we give him a lot of credit, but there's something there, that resilience, that bounce back after that terrible rookie season where I think on this program, Dan, we just discounted that entire year and took it off the books and said he's starting year one with Ben Johnson from scratch. This, and this, by the way, too, his third year will be his third starting center as well, too, to start a season, he's going to have a third starting center, whether it's Logan Jones or it's Garrett Bradbury. He's going to have a third starting center to open up his time with the Chicago Bears.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yes. He has to get to know three different ass cracks with the top of his left hand.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yes, he does. And you know, some ass cracks are better than other ass cracks, Dan.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yes. Some. Some just fit your vibe better, I guess. You know, he's just gotta know. Come here, bend over. Let me see what you got. All right. Okay, I can work with this one here.

[Matt Abeticola]

There were a few things that, that stood out for me. I hearing him talk about his, his growing confidence in year two, understanding the Ben Johnson offense even further, knowing that the initial things he needed to learn in year one, he doesn't need to learn those things. And now they can add to the playbook. They can add what they've already done.

[Dan Bernstein]

This is, We've been through this before. Matt Nagy said all these things Matt Nagy said all these things about Mitch Trubisky. Remember, it's like, oh, this is now, now we've got the. We can go up to graduate level courses or we're moving on to. We're moving on to 200 level stuff. It's all this exact same. I just want to be clear.

[Matt Abeticola]

But this is very different though.

[Dan Bernstein]

I know it is. I agree with you. It is still my job to point that out that, oh, he's, he's not making the same mistakes he did last year. That we're go. And I'm not gonna, gonna go through all, do all these searches or ask AI to do all these searches to compare and play this game for you. What year is this? Who said this was this? And, and, and make some big reveal that all the same kind of stuff was said in the Matt Negi regime. But it was, it was. The difference is we actually think this coach is good.

[Matt Abeticola]

Well, yeah, I was to say that that's, that's the significant difference because you can't one day say the Bears are going to win because Ben Johnson is there and then the next day say, well, we've heard this same type of thing as well from other previous coaches.

[Dan Bernstein]

I can say, I can, I can say both. Both are true. Both are true. I do believe the Bears have a better chance to win than their opponent on a given day because Ben Johnson's their head coach. And I also think it's fair to point out that these are things that are said in the second year of a coach, quarterback relationship from an offensive coach.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah, that certainly is true. But I would hope you'd bear more weight on the fact of the combo of Ben Johnson and Caleb Williams over the combo of Matt Nagy and Mitch Trubisky.

[Dan Bernstein]

Of course I do that. I definitely do. But I also want to make sure that we are not, not, not falling for the same kind of rhetoric at face value.

[Matt Abeticola]

No, we're certainly not. Because I think, I think Ben deserves it, though. And I think Ben has earned that. And I, and when I get excited hearing Caleb say we're adding to what we've already done, that makes me excited. Watching this offense last year knowing that as the season went on and Ben developed and added more to it and we Pointed out specific plays or from or formations that we didn't see or hearing Ben talk about this one particular play that they were practicing for weeks and weeks and weeks and they finally found the right moment to insert it. How many other things are there that they're going to be able to add now that, that Caleb doesn't have to worry about his pre snap stuff as much. He has gotten better, so certainly needs to improve, but has gotten better. He doesn't need to learn the terminology that the offense and the players there are familiar with the terminology of what they want to do and the scheme and the understanding of what they're trying to do. We saw the growth in this offense and I'm excited to hear it. And when he talks about being more confident, that makes me more excited. One thing that really stood out when I heard Caleb say when he talks to players now on the offense, he said these. And this is, I'm paraphrasing it, but when he talks it sounds like a coach talking. Now I love to hear that because he's your leader, he's your leader on your offense. And if they're hearing things from Caleb that sound like a coach is saying it, that's very valuable to me in my opinion in the growth of this offense that it's not just a guy who needs to learn and understand, but he's talking from a position of authority, not on an equal level as the coaches or of course Ben Johnson, but he's talking on a level of authority and confidence which that excites me in understanding what he's understanding, how he's grown as a player.

[Dan Bernstein]

I also, I also wonder, did they make it too difficult last year then that it's like, well, it's night and day different. We know they threw a lot at them last year. I just wonder if they're really, if it's this difficult, if it really, if it takes a full year for it to settle in, for them to lay down the coats of paint, you know, first the primer and then the first coat and let it dry and put the second coat down. They must. The burden on this offense, no pun intended, with an offensive player, skill, position burden. But I just wonder if how difficult a time they had coming out of camp here and swimming through everything they were being asked to do last year.

[Matt Abeticola]

I think that's a, that's a fair question. And I want to say that in my opinion that it probably was too difficult, but I think a real NFL offense is difficult. And I think if it was too easy, it Wouldn't be that good of an offense.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's also, I. I think a lot of it. Maybe we're being too broad in talking about it in the terms of easy or difficult. Let me refine my comment. The whole idea of this offense working correctly is Caleb Williams thinking like Ben Johnson without Ben Johnson having to tell him what he's thinking.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yes. And that's going to take more than one year, more than two years.

[Dan Bernstein]

That. And when you say he sounds like a coach. I don't want him to sound like a coach. I want him to sound like Ben Johnson.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah. And that's not something I said, that's something Caleb said. Caleb said. And I'm again paraphrasing that when he talks, it sounds like a coach.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Abeticola]

And my assumption was not just any coach, but it's Ben Johnson.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah. Okay.

[Matt Abeticola]

Because. Because he's had Ben Johnson in his ear more than any other coach. And he talked about that relationship. And we talked a little bit about yesterday when Ben Johnson talked about the screening time of looking at all the incomplete passes. They sat down together and went through that. And. And Caleb was even asked again yesterday that the way that Ben spoke to him, the way that Ben addressed him in his first year, Caleb thought Ben Johnson didn't like him very much. And he was even asked, does he still talk to you the same way? And Caleb laughed and said, yeah, he sure does.

[Dan Bernstein]

Coaching, of course, because he does.

[Matt Abeticola]

He knows liking him or not liking him, but he's going to scream at him, he's going to swear at him, which he's. Caleb says he does, but now he understands it differently. He's receiving it differently.

[Dan Bernstein]

It was so funny. I remember being like, before his senior year of baseball, they said they had just started spring ball when the incoming freshmen were on the team and they were observing the baseball coach going about his business like he usually does. And somebody came up to Jason and said, wow, I don't think coach likes you. Coach really doesn't like you. What did you do to him? And he just kind of smiled at him. He's like, we're. We're good. It's fine. This is our relationship. He knows. And it was this. It was just because the freshman kid was, like, scared that Coach would talk to somebody like that. And everybody, he's like, this, this is. This is normal. It's fine.

[Matt Abeticola]

Don't worry about it. And I'm sure that that was a transition that Caleb had to make, too, going from, you know, coming from USC and then a year with Matt Eberflus. And I'm sure Eber flu's didn't yell and scream at him. I'm sure Eber flus didn't swear at him.

[Dan Bernstein]

I mean, we saw it on Hard Knocks.

[Matt Abeticola]

Didn't know what was happening.

[Dan Bernstein]

Do you remember on Hard Knocks when Caleb had to go in there and they had to stage that dumbass scene of Caleb literally sitting at Eber Fl's desk while Eber flu sat there and said, right, we want to have our foot over here. Right. Do you. That was. It was painful.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah. I don't. I'm sure I blocked that out.

[Dan Bernstein]

I hope he did. I hope that all of those files on his hard drive have been deleted.

[Matt Abeticola]

Oh, I think they have been. Like, because. Because I. I don't know how he was coached in usc, but I'm sure it was a lot different than what he's rece. Ben Johnson as far as the style or the. The approach to it, but Caleb needed to learn that. He needed to learn that. Yeah, he might yell and scream and swear at me, but it's not because he hates me or because he thinks I'm terrible. He wants me to be the best I can.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah.

[Matt Abeticola]

That's how I'm gonna get it out of his job. I. I just. I'd love to hear him talk. Saying that when I talk now, it sounds like a coach where I assumed he means Ben Johnson there to other players.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay.

[Matt Abeticola]

Which. Which just means that he's gaining more knowledge and confidence in what it is they're trying to do.

[Dan Bernstein]

And I want Caleb to sound like a coach, too. I want him to be as conversant in the concepts that it. I know this is. This may be a bigger topic for another time, but it's just where my mind goes with this is the idea of him recognizing coverages and getting the ball out on time where rather than treating the symptom. And the symptom is not getting the ball out on time where that. That may not be what you want to treat. Where if in fact, the recognition is there earlier and that his head isn't spinning with. I have to spit this cadence out. I've got to get the play call right. And now I got to listen to my center and figure out the mic. If all of that is second nature now, rather than being concerned about how to get the ball out quicker and treat the symptoms, if the cause is simply processing speed and that is taken care of or that we're closer to that being taken care of, look out, because it might. It might just Be the ball's going to be out.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah, I think that's a great point to bring up because I think the pre snap stuff, we saw a lot of growth last year and I expect that to continue and get even better than it was last year at the end of the year. But where they're at now, and he even talked about these yesterday, was the post snap like to recognize quicker when the defenses shift and change. And we're going to see that a lot. We're going to see that a lot. Obviously in the two times, in the two times they play Minnesota, but not only that in Green Bay as well too. Green Bay is changing their defensive scheme by adding Jonathan Gannon and going to a 3, 4 front. It's going to change what they do with three high safeties. I mean, they're going to change their looks post snap a lot more than what they saw previously playing Green Bay for Caleb Williams. Green Bay, by the way, has nine, nine brand new coaches that they hired coming in from the outside, which is the most in the division this year. Minnesota with seven, the Lions and the Bears each with three. Of course, on the Bears side, it was all offensively. You have every single defensive guy returning in year two under Ben Johnson on the defensive side of the football. So how does that impact what Dennis Allen does when they talk about, you know, coaching guys up better, Coaching better. We're going to be better at coaching guys, particularly talking about the defensive line getting pressure on the quarterback. You have, you have your entire staff returning on the defense, which is the only team in this division having one side of the ball, you know, being retained fully after a season. So a lot of change in Green Bay. How long will that take their defense to adjust, to really become comfortable in game time, doing that without Micah Parsons there for the first, what, five, six, seven games, who knows how long he's out for. But it's going to be a different look for Caleb Williams as well. Looking back at game film from last year, it's going to look different now playing Green Bay. So how is he going to process faster post snap? That's where they're working on more this year in year two.

[Dan Bernstein]

Quick follow up to something that we talked about yesterday on dbu and that was this unspoken belief in Ben Johnson and this understanding that a lot of this optimism simply comes from the fact that there's trust in the coach and say, well, they don't say it and Ben doesn't say it. Like we were comparing it to Will Stein who's like, why are we going to be better because I'm here. And Ben Johnson could easily say that, but he doesn't. Well, the newly minted offensive coordinator, Press Taylor did say it today. He said. And this is from Kevin Fishbay and other people have transcribed this as well. This is Press Taylor on Ben Johnson. When he steps on the field, there's a certain look in his eyes and you get excited on our side because we have been like, that's part of the process of why do you think you're going to win? We have been. There it is.

[Matt Abeticola]

There you go. Wanted to hear.

[Dan Bernstein]

Was that so hard? There was everything I spent 15 minutes talking about yesterday. There is the offensive coordinator saying it. That's awesome. Perfect. Very satisfying.

[Matt Abeticola]

Good. I'm glad that that was answered quickly for you, too. You didn't have to wait. Wait very long.

[Dan Bernstein]

One day we got one day. We did. We did finally get a long delayed clarification too, that we spent a lot of time worried about what Roma Dunes a said about the changes in his foot and the. The term new normal.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah. So this was from Patrick Finley. Roma Dunze said that his new normal comment about his foot was misinterpreted and that he understands why it was. He said his foot feels great.

[Dan Bernstein]

There you go. And I, we, we predicted that he might walk it back a little bit. It just took some time.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yes. But he did.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay. Good.

[Matt Abeticola]

And I'm glad that we, we stayed on it and talked about it because I know people are like, oh, you're making, you're making something out of nothing. Well, I'm glad that, that Roma Dunes was able to understand as well as the Bears that, hey, you probably shouldn't have said it this way.

[Dan Bernstein]

Right.

[Matt Abeticola]

So go out there and you just make sure that everyone understands that your

[Dan Bernstein]

foot is fine and you made yourself less valuable regardless of what team you play for. Yes.

[Matt Abeticola]

Correct. Yeah, I know you, you said earlier too that you had a list of the players. Now I know we're in day two of camp only. Who filled in at the nickel?

[Dan Bernstein]

I do.

[Matt Abeticola]

With Tyler Gordon and his calf injury, having him on the PUP list and talked about that at length yesterday on yesterday's forward progress. So who, who, who jumped in at nickel in training camp so far in day one and day two?

[Dan Bernstein]

Jalen Jones worked with the starters.

[Matt Abeticola]

Okay.

[Dan Bernstein]

And the others that mixed in, in no particular order here, the actual listed backup, Josh Blackwell, Cam Lewis, who was the free agent veteran signee, and rookie Malik Muhammad. No surprises.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yep.

[Dan Bernstein]

But it was Jalen Jones working with the starters at nickel Corner.

[Matt Abeticola]

All right, so we'll keep an eye on that. Like to see who gets more reps with the starters. If they have a rotation that goes through, maybe Muhammad gets a go at it, maybe Cam Lewis and see where it develops from there. Yep. And I think as we go through, maybe in, you know, week three, maybe at the end of week two, we'll see who is getting more snaps with the. With the ones depending on where Kyler Gordon is at too. But even they said yesterday, Dan, when Kyler Gordon comes back, they're not just walking him into that position. Do you believe that? When Ryan Paul said yesterday that he needs to earn his spot back, I

[Dan Bernstein]

don't think that anything is guaranteed for him.

[Matt Abeticola]

I agree with that.

[Dan Bernstein]

I don't. Not anything whatsoever.

[Matt Abeticola]

That lack of trust that. And now he is. He is completely, entirely outside of the circle of trust.

[Dan Bernstein]

And yes, it should be.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah. And for him to get that job back, he's going to have to beat whoever it is that they say is the starter in that role. He's going to have to beat that guy out.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yes. Perry, there's absolutely nothing is being gifted to this guy. Despite all the money that he's being paid. They there. They don't trust him right now. And I think that their words called him soft and they want him to prove he's tough enough to get out there and play.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah, certainly without. Without saying it. They certainly did say. If you read between the lines, that's what I think. He's soft. Yeah. Absolutely. No, I agree. 100. One of my favorite things that have come out of that has come out of Bears camp so far this year. I know we're only in. In day two of training camp, but I don't know if you've seen. I've already mentioned Patrick Finley and his comments are, you know, reiterating what, what Roman Dunes they had to say about his foot. But have you seen Patrick Finley's Twitter account and the pictures that he's posting from camp?

[Dan Bernstein]

Is he drawing his pictures again?

[Matt Abeticola]

He's drawing his pictures again. It's just. It's one of my favorite things.

[Dan Bernstein]

Oh, it's the best in.

[Matt Abeticola]

In camp. And he. There was a picture today of Caleb Williams throwing to Cleave Raymond.

[Dan Bernstein]

It just got it.

[Matt Abeticola]

Got it. It's so good.

[Dan Bernstein]

I'm surprised they're not shutting him down. It's so true to life.

[Matt Abeticola]

It's very lifelike.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's like being there. And it's so good that I think he's in a de facto violation of Their code. Because he's like a courtroom reporter. Oh, no.

[Matt Abeticola]

You think so?

[Dan Bernstein]

I hope he's in trouble. I think he's gonna get in trouble because it's too illustrative. And I now know the game plan secrets here. I love the way he drew the cleats on Khalif Raymond's shoes, too.

[Matt Abeticola]

Well, yeah, the. The left foot only has, like, two cleats, and they're. They're. They're not even attached. And then the right one has four that are much longer than the left. So. Yeah, he needs to get those cleats fixed and have the matching cleats on.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, but he's got everything. He's got the. He's got the sun shining. He's got birds in the sky.

[Matt Abeticola]

Now, I think what you're pointing out here, though. No, but here's what you're failing to point out. I think we're. I think he let on a little secret of the Bears offense under year two, under Ben Johnson.

[Dan Bernstein]

See, he's giving away proprietary information.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yes. How many footballs are there, Dan?

[Dan Bernstein]

One, two, three, four footballs being thrown.

[Matt Abeticola]

I think. I think that's the key to Ben Johnson. You're up multiple offense, take care of everybody.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah. That way there's going to be enough footballs to go around on every given play.

[Matt Abeticola]

Right. So if Raymond gets one and Burden gets one and Loveland gets one and Rome gets one, who you tackling? Who you stopping?

[Dan Bernstein]

Right. Well, what if DeAndre Swift is in there and Kyle Manung guy and all these possibilities.

[Matt Abeticola]

One of those guys would be in there. Yeah. And say if they get a ball, if there's four footballs on the field at once, who are you tackling? Which is the real football? Which is the real play?

[Dan Bernstein]

That's outside the box thinking that you get from Ben Johnson. That has not. We wouldn't have that without Patrick Finley. Not only his observational powers, but his remarkable artistic ability.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah. So it's just. It's one of my favorite things each year. Yeah. See, and here's another picture is a highlight of Bears first practice. Luther Burden catching a punt with each arm. So he has a football in each hand. So I think in this one, when receiving kicks, the Bears are getting two balls.

[Dan Bernstein]

Wasn't it Adam Pacman Jones on the Cowboys hard knocks that caught what, eight? How many did he catch out of the jugs machine?

[Matt Abeticola]

You get the right play. That sounds right. It wasn't 10. I think it was just seven. I think it was eight. Eight sounds correct.

[Dan Bernstein]

I'm gonna look that up now because that was incredible. Yeah. Six. The answer was six.

[Matt Abeticola]

Still impressive.

[Dan Bernstein]

2008, it says Cowboys cornerback punt returner Adam Pacman Jones shows off his ability. Ability to catch six punts without dropping a ball. Okay. Close.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah. Still very impressive.

[Dan Bernstein]

Two. Two's good. Khalif. Two's good. I just, every time I mentioned I pictured the picture you showed me yesterday of his first picture.

[Matt Abeticola]

It was great. Leaf. Yeah. Yeah. Also too, Kobe Bryant, he spoke as well and you know, not very familiar with Kobe as, you know, as a leader or a voice outside of what I see of him on, on tape, obviously, and playing for, for the Seahawks, but great personality, very outspoken. I mean, he talked about being a leader. So I think if we're looking for a guy that's going to be a vocal leader on the defense, he's certainly a guy. We mentioned him yesterday, but just without knowing him for sure. But he certainly seems like a guy that is going to step up and let his voice be heard as well as being there to help not only Dylan Thieman, but other younger guys on the defensive side of the football to improve become the best player they can.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah. Kobe Bryant described by Dennis Allen as. He says he plays fast, he plays violently. He's smart, he's instinctive. So that's F, V, S, I. Fast, violent, smart, instinctive. FVSI says a lot, does a lot of really good things. He was an impressive guy to watch on tape. I think when you watched him on their defense, I thought his played demeanor was contagious. I believe he'll bring that type of mindset, you know, to our team.

[Matt Abeticola]

We could, we could just rearrange it and have it visive.

[Dan Bernstein]

Visive, violent, instinctive, fast.

[Matt Abeticola]

What's the S. Smart, smart. So visive.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay.

[Matt Abeticola]

Like it could be like their version

[Dan Bernstein]

of slap violent, instinctive, smart, fast. All right. We just take all these different adjectives and then we make an acronym out of it because that's easy for people to remember rightly.

[Matt Abeticola]

So good luck remembering this and make

[Dan Bernstein]

the T shirts get after it. But yeah, high hopes for Kobe Bryant. He has to. They're, they're replacing a very successful secondary and it's possible it can be done. I, I was a little kid. How old was I when. When the Bears lost Al Harris and Todd Bell to their ill fated holdout of after the 84 season, I said, how can this team make do without Al Harris and Todd Bell? Well, they did.

[Matt Abeticola]

They did. Very much so.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah. I, I, I think, I think, I

[Matt Abeticola]

think the defense was Good. That year, even without those guys. I think.

[Dan Bernstein]

Think when they. When they put in Wilbur Marshall and Dave Duerson, that it was okay.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah, I think they did all right. If I remember, I'll look it up, bring it back for you tomorrow. 86 bears.

[Dan Bernstein]

Remind me. Remind me, because I, you know, I get. I'm old. I forget.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah. No one ever talks about that season anymore, so.

[Dan Bernstein]

Right. Yeah. Well, you know, I will say fewer people are.

[Matt Abeticola]

Well, yeah. Because everyone's dying off.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yes.

[Matt Abeticola]

I mean, we're like. We're. We're on the. Like on the. On the. On the younger.

[Dan Bernstein]

I know. Yeah. We're gonna start dying, too.

[Matt Abeticola]

I mean, you know, being in your mid-50s, you're at the younger end of. I'm in my late 50s.

[Dan Bernstein]

I know I'm 57. My late 50s.

[Matt Abeticola]

I know I're 53, but I'm still very much a part of that, man. It's like we're all dying off.

[Dan Bernstein]

The best reason to be my age, moving up to the tees. Moving up to the silver tees. That's what best.

[Matt Abeticola]

When did you move up?

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, 55 at my dad's club is the. Is the. Is the line. That's their rule.

[Matt Abeticola]

And others. That's pretty weak, dude.

[Dan Bernstein]

Hell, are you kidding?

[Matt Abeticola]

Five is. That's young.

[Dan Bernstein]

Now, today, look. Look for.

[Matt Abeticola]

You know, usually I shouldn't move up to. You shouldn't move.

[Dan Bernstein]

Scramble in the scramble I played in. They said you have to be to

[Matt Abeticola]

be, as I say, retirement age 62. That, to me, that's a number to move on.

[Dan Bernstein]

I don't know.

[Matt Abeticola]

55 is way too young.

[Dan Bernstein]

I don't know. I don't hit us. I hit my longest drive of the year yesterday, which is nice, but I had the downhill.

[Matt Abeticola]

Did you break 200 and wind?

[Dan Bernstein]

Yes.

[Matt Abeticola]

Okay.

[Dan Bernstein]

Jason stepped it off. He said it was 270, which. Which is. That is going to be the farthest drive I hit maybe for the rest of my life.

[Matt Abeticola]

Were you on top of a mountain?

[Dan Bernstein]

Yes, pretty much.

[Matt Abeticola]

All right.

[Dan Bernstein]

Wind at my back and essentially playing the thing down a big hill.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yes.

[Dan Bernstein]

All right.

[Matt Abeticola]

Well, it still counts.

[Dan Bernstein]

Oh, hell, yeah, it does. And birdie the. No, I didn't birdie that hole. I up the next shot.

[Matt Abeticola]

Wait, so you play when you and your dad and Jason played. You and your dad are playing the, like, the ladies tees, and he's playing the, like, the black tees or. What are you doing?

[Dan Bernstein]

No, there's four. There's. There's the. There's the. The tips. There's the regulars. There's the seniors, and then there's the. The ladies slash juniors.

[Matt Abeticola]

Okay, so you're playing seniors with your dad?

[Dan Bernstein]

Sometimes. Yeah.

[Matt Abeticola]

And he's playing. And Jay's playing the regulars. Right. Okay.

[Dan Bernstein]

Usually. It's how it works. But he's. But I'm not competing because he's competing with my dad, and.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah, they compete because.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, right, right. I don't. Although Jason only beat me by two strokes yesterday. Like, legit.

[Matt Abeticola]

Oh, seriously?

[Dan Bernstein]

No.

[Matt Abeticola]

No strokes given or anything.

[Dan Bernstein]

No strokes given that.

[Matt Abeticola]

But I thought he had a bad day then.

[Dan Bernstein]

Terrible. He shot a 50 on the front nine, and then he had a 41 on the back.

[Matt Abeticola]

Oh, that's not good.

[Dan Bernstein]

No, I was.

[Matt Abeticola]

Eat him up, too. A 50 on the front.

[Dan Bernstein]

He's gotten much better about that.

[Matt Abeticola]

Okay.

[Dan Bernstein]

Because he was just like, I hate. I hate this sport. I hate this sport. I hate the sport.

[Matt Abeticola]

Well, everyone hates their plays.

[Dan Bernstein]

And I said. I said, jason, I promise you, you hit a couple of good shots, we're going to walk out of here and you're going to love the sport again. And then he birdied 18 for a 41. And he's like, yeah, you're right.

[Matt Abeticola]

Well, I tell you, When I play 18, I need three good shots. I need a good drive, I need a good putt, and I need a good approach shot. If I can. If I can do all three of those in 18, I'll be back, right?

[Dan Bernstein]

Oh, you'll be back anyway.

[Matt Abeticola]

One of each.

[Dan Bernstein]

You'll be back. Yeah, I agree with you.

[Matt Abeticola]

You'll be.

[Dan Bernstein]

You'll be back anyway, though, even if you don't.

[Matt Abeticola]

Those are the three shots I remember. I mean, some guys play. And I'm sure you do, too. You remember every shot. No, three. That's it.

[Dan Bernstein]

I was. It was so funny. I was talking to my therapist about this. I had this conversation in therapy about why can't I take my very healthy attitude toward golf to other things? Why can't I? Because. Why. Why can't I use that as an idea? Like, take the good things. Don't worry about the bad things necessarily. Like, why I can't do that with fishing. Losing a fish eats at me. Losing a fish wrecks me. And even though there's much more luck involved in fishing, a fish can get off the hook. A fish is a living thing that has, you know, some. It has some agency. It can. It can escape. It can do things. It's trying. It's trying to save its life. Yeah, I think.

[Matt Abeticola]

But there's a difference between things you enjoy and things that you're passionate about, like when I. When I. When I cook something that I'm not satisfied with.

[Dan Bernstein]

It sucks, I know, but stays with me. What my therapist said was, I think that your own self value, self esteem, that you really are proud of how good a fisherman you are, much more so than how proud you are of being a good golfer. And I said, well, that's right. I said, I know I'm not a good golfer. Yeah. And he said, well, that's really the difference. He said, you just have higher expectations for yourself when it comes to something happens at work or something that happens when you. Because that. That's really all that.

[Matt Abeticola]

That is.

[Dan Bernstein]

But he said, it's not like these aren't building blocks that we can use to try to get to that point in a healthy, intelligent way. But that was his interpretation.

[Matt Abeticola]

Well, that's very important. Thanks for sharing that. Now I think we've all learned a little something about ourselves.

[Dan Bernstein]

That's all. We. I mean, look, it's.

[Matt Abeticola]

We.

[Dan Bernstein]

We should all be in therapy. Everybody. I don't care who you are. I don't care what you think. I don'. Everybody should have a therapist or it should be privileged enough and lucky enough to be able to afford one and have one. And I just think it's really important.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah, and not your local bartender either. No, that'll. That'll work a little bit. It's better nothing, I guess better than nothing. At least you talk to someone.

[Dan Bernstein]

Any social relationship is better than parasocial relationships. Actually. Connecting socially is really, really, really good for you. So doing that is good, but it does not. I wouldn't say that that is a reasonable substitute for professional therapy.

[Matt Abeticola]

All right, well, there's our segment on Forward Progress that will make you angry because it's not about football. And we're glad to bring one of those to you every episode.

[Dan Bernstein]

Angry. The people forcing me to listen will pay for this.

[Matt Abeticola]

That's right. I'm trying to find those people that force other people to listen to Forward Progress.

[Dan Bernstein]

I know, it's. Oh, it's every podcast.

[Matt Abeticola]

See, I'm gonna do. I'm gonna find them, and then I'm gonna bring the to Gano for a meal.

[Dan Bernstein]

I used to say it about radio. It's like the person who's got the forcing you to listen to the radio that makes you so angry. The mean man said something on the radio that's pissed me off. Well, it's different with a podcast. Like the radio. It's.

[Matt Abeticola]

You might.

[Dan Bernstein]

Somebody might pull up to you in traffic and, and it might be on. I guess that can happen with a podcast too. But it just seems like the idea of I'm going to go to my phone or I'm going to set it this up so this downloads when it arrives. Like if somebody's got your phone and is downloading things to your phone and then forcing you to sit and listen to them, we need to know, we need to find these people. Then, you know, we either have to arrest them or hire them or both. Yes, I think it's a good idea. It's a plan. I'll write that down. And that's today's forward progress.

[Matt Abeticola]

Did you tell us about Giordano's?

[Dan Bernstein]

Well, I have a lot to say about Giordano's.

[Matt Abeticola]

Okay, good.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah, I'm glad you asked. I have a lot to say because

[Matt Abeticola]

I'm hungry and I want pizza.

[Dan Bernstein]

Backpacks are packed, schedules are filling up, and somehow everyone's hungry at the exact same time, including Matt Vaticola. It's back to school season. When you need an easy win, make it a Giordano's night. You can treat the kids and yourself to the Chicago style pizza everyone loves. Whether you're celebrating the first day back or just surviving the first week, dine in pickup or order Delivery and visit giordano.com or visit your local Giordano's restaurant today. Do we know when the Bears are going to have a full padded real practice? Have they said when, when they're going to actually hit?

[Matt Abeticola]

I don't know

[Dan Bernstein]

because that is. I'm sure they know because that gets. Or maybe I think a couple times last year he surprised him with it. Where you get there and the instructions will be up there or your pads are in your locker or somebody like, I want to say last year he did not give them advance notice as to when it was going to go live. Maybe a couple times when they left at the end of the day, it's like, get a good night's sleep, be ready because we're hitting tomorrow or something like that.

[Matt Abeticola]

But yep, I got you right here. The Bears are scheduled to hold their first full padded practice on Monday, August 3rd.

[Dan Bernstein]

Okay. All right. I was, I was curious because. Good.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah. They timed it up with the baseball trade deadline.

[Dan Bernstein]

That's okay. Yeah, that's all right. Good. Okay. So Monday they hit. That used to be the best day. That, when, when you knew that, that that was. Well, that was. I mean, every day when they would hit, but the first day of it, inside run, Oklahoma Drill, nutcracker, all those things they don't do anymore. And there's that. That little crackle in the air and everybody, all the players know it. Defense and the offense are yelling at each other.

[Matt Abeticola]

That crackle in the air on Monday when it's going to be, oh, 77 and sunny on Monday.

[Dan Bernstein]

That's not bad.

[Matt Abeticola]

That's.

[Dan Bernstein]

That's perfect. Maybe there'll be a practice fight. It'll be a good little lineman scrap.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah. I love, I love a training camp fight of two guys that aren't making the roster.

[Dan Bernstein]

Two guys not making the roster. Hitting each other in the helmet.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yes.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yes. It doesn't really.

[Matt Abeticola]

It's.

[Dan Bernstein]

It doesn't do much, but as long as you're not actually swinging your helmet as a weapon.

[Matt Abeticola]

Yeah. Just punching each other in the helmet with bare fists. Yeah.

[Dan Bernstein]

It's still the best training camp fight I've ever seen. Andy Heck and Alonzo Spellman,

[Matt Abeticola]

those are two big boys, too.

[Dan Bernstein]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were all Prague at getting all practice. And then at the end of practice, it finally, finally spilled over and everybody knew it. Every kind of let it breathe a little bit before they, it was like a hockey fight where they, the officials would circle before, you know, let them get their licks in before they come over. But that was a. That was a good one.

[Matt Abeticola]

That's good.

[Dan Bernstein]

Yeah. So maybe, maybe they'll. Maybe Braxton Jones and, And Diode Dangbo. I don't know.

[Matt Abeticola]

No, I don't think so. Braxton Jones seems too nice.

[Dan Bernstein]

I know he's. Everybody's too nice now. They're all nice. There's not a lot of, like, not as many genuine rough customers in this league as there used to be.

[Matt Abeticola]

Oh, that's too bad.

[Dan Bernstein]

No, it's not. It's good. It's. It's a good thing. Forward progress has been brought to you by Giordano's back to school means back to busy between practices, homework, and everything in between. Give yourself a break with Giordano's. Treat the kids. Treat yourself to Chicago Style Pizza everyone can agree on and make tonight a giordano's night@giordano's.com or visit your local Giordano's restaurant today, Giordano's the one for Chicago style pizza here on 312 Sports for progress has stopped.

[Matt Abeticola]

Forward Progress, a Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312 Sports.