← Forward Progress - A Chicago Bears Podcast
Forward Progress - A Chicago Bears Podcast
Tim Jenkins - All Things QB / Former NFL Quarterback
00:45:52
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- [00:01]
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Tim Jenkins
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Matt Abeticola
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- [01:20]
Tim Jenkins
Forward progress a Chicago Bears Podcast with Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312 sports.
- [01:31]
Matt Abeticola
Forward progress. The Chicago Bears podcast is brought to you by Beer Chur Beer, Church Brewing, New Buffalo's Brewery Pizzeria and a historic Church Wood Fired Neapolitan Pizza Small Batch Craft Beer Brunch every day. Visit our friends@beerchurchbrewing.com here to talk Chicago Bears with us is an old friend you will recognize as soon as we pop him up on screen. He is longtime quarterback former NFL ER Tim Jenkins. He of T Jenkins Elite on Twitter and the All Things QB channel. He is with us here on Forward Progress. Tim, how you been man? Good to see you.
- [02:11]
Tim Jenkins
I've been great. I've been great. I'm fired up. It's actually a great name too for the Bears. Right? Cause we need to just continue to make progress.
- [02:18]
Matt Abeticola
You know that and well. So let's have you evaluate for because we have not heard your perspective on everything and not only are we into Ben Johnson's tenure, but we're a half a season in.
- [02:31]
Dan Bernstein
Oh, are we talking Bears? I thought we were going to just.
- [02:33]
Tim Jenkins
Keep going with youth, just talking stuff. No, I thought all right, but we are.
- [02:37]
Dan Bernstein
I guess we can do Bears Half.
- [02:39]
Matt Abeticola
Half a season in with all of these high expectations, has the development of Caleb Williams met expectations? Has it not lived up or has the development exceeded your expectations?
- [02:52]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah, I think I've got kind of maybe an interesting answer on this, which is if you look at it from year one in Ben Johnson's system, I think we are in a good spot. I think we have made progress each week to where we're starting to hang on these concepts a little bit longer. We're starting to do a better job, I think, playing from structure, which I think will always be Caleb's issue. And the reason I say that is because he is still, even at the highest level, kind of a guy who's the best kid on the playground, he can still go in it. I mean, you saw it this week, right? It was impossible to bring him down in the pocket. So the interesting part is I think he is in year one of Ben Johnson system. I think it's great. My bigger war, you know, my bigger thing, if you were to really criticize it, is, you know, year two as a quarterback in the NFL, I think maybe you'd want to see more progress to date. But I do think, I mean, you guys live through it. We all live through it. You almost got to throw last year out because it was just the stories that are coming out about him watching film alone or the lack of scripting. You almost got to just disregard that and treat him like a rookie as much as it is. Stinks to say that, but I do think he's. I think they've progressed well. I think sitting here at 6 and 3, you've got to kind of feel good about or 6 and whatever they are, you got to feel good about their chance to go make a run late. And I do think this offense is starting to come alive at the right time.
- [04:09]
Dan Bernstein
You know, it's funny, Tim, because we've had that conversation on this show about taking last season and kind of just pushing it away and kind of a redo a restart for his rookie season. Because I've been frustrated with. With Caleb because I've wanted. I've expected more of him with a guy who's had over 20 starts in the NFL. Yet I need to realize and kind of be a little more patient that it's really this first year he's had with a real NFL head coach and offensive coordinator. So I've given him the grace and the space he needs to kind of develop. When you. When you review his film from this season, what do you see as being the next step of development for. For Caleb Williams?
- [04:48]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah, well, you know, you bring up one great point too, which is like hey, you got to throw it out. But then it's actually interesting because then there's a piece of me when I hear that, I go, man, the Bears is an organization. Terrible. Like, you shouldn't have had that wasted year. What's funny, though, is how many guys are we doing that with again this year? You got Jackson dart. They're doing it now. Cam Ward, like, all these guys, it's like basically they all are doing the same thing that Caleb went through, right? You the. The coach drafts you, and then he's fired the first year. It's just interesting that the NFL as a whole almost does this all the time. But what I will say, like, you where I'd like to see the growth is the playing within structure, and I just want to see that ratio get a little bit higher. I think if we can get him to that Josh Allen 8020 mixture of 80%, it's on time in structure. The other 20% is him going and being Caleb Williams, because I don't want to fully take that away from him. Right. I think part of why you take him first overall is because of that. I think that's part of his gifts that you got to lean into. What I will say is the sustainability of it. I do think the more we can get him to play within structure, maybe. I think right now we're probably like 60, 40 within structure. 60% of the time. The other 40%, it's like, man, you're kind of bailing out at times where I would maybe disagree with, hey, play on rhythm here. Bail out a little bit. Maybe third and long, fourth and gotta have it. And that's where I think he could grow. It's like, you know, and again, the Bills lost. But, you know, you watched their Dolphins game this last week. What you'll notice is it's like the first three drives, four drives, Josh Allen's trying to play on time, they get down, and then it's like, okay, hey, let me turn into Josh Allen. Let me go do some of this stuff. And I think that's the growth of an NFL quarterback who's as talented as those guys are. But, I mean, I also think, how nice is it to have a quarterback that we think of that way? It could be a lot worse, right? You could be sitting there being like, you know, Chad Pennington, hey, we gotta play on time 100%, right? If not super early. So to me, it's like, I think there is a. It's nice that we have that in Chicago. And then, you know, finding the Right. Kind of cadence to coach it. What I will say is I finally, we finally have somebody that I believe can do that. Right. I think there were a lot of times, you know, I talked to Dan last season and it's like there's a lot of times that I would bring stuff up and it was almost like I didn't even think this would get addressed and I'm bringing it up. Whereas now this year, you know, I'm not going to, I'm not going to act like Ben Johnson watches my breakdown. Right. He's got better stuff to do. But it's. I do think football coaches sit there and see similar things. Oh, hang on the concept. And then the next week Caleb's hanging on the concept. And that is encouraging to me. That means, oh man, we're rolling in the right direction. And I do think this offense, they look different week 10 than they did week one. I can only imagine what we get to week 17, 18 and then all of a sudden you kind of become dangerous as a wild card team if you, if you get into the dance.
- [07:46]
Matt Abeticola
I noted here Chad Pennington catches stray. Check that box. I also want to talk about pre snap because to me I want to see more victories by the offense before the ball is snapped. And it doesn't have to be every time because I know that's not ever where Caleb was scouted as special.
- [08:12]
Tim Jenkins
Correct.
- [08:12]
Matt Abeticola
Yeah, but it still is. That is really in the NFL where, where you win and lose in times when it can matter most. And the development of by the time he's. He's getting the call, he spits it out, he's at the line, you know, they break the huddle with enough time and then he can look it over, he can send the motion as a coverage indicator. What are you seeing in development in that time?
- [08:39]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah, I think you're dead on of like that's what we have to get to, right? That's the NFL like you, you nailed it. That's the NFL. You win or lose at the line of scrimmage. As a quarterback, what I will say is, I mean going back to week one, right. We've cut the pre snap penalties. It seems like our motion timing is better. I would like to like you're saying, I'd like to see that they're a can can team, right. Some teams are kill kill their can can one of the next. I would like to see that improve and I mean that in like I see two or three on film where he'll can it and then there's a Big play, you'd love to see that get to seven or eight. Right. And it's not like, hey, you know, a lot of OCS would argue, oh well, if I'm calling the right plays, we're not canning it to the next one because we're sticking with the first call, which that's valid to a degree. Also, the NFL is so complicated and complex on defense that like you're going to can it a lot more than two times if you're really calling those every snap. That's what I would like to see as well. Like if we can grow in the can series, the kill series, getting from one play to another and then I've always, you know, judged it. Right. Hey, if you see can can you want to see an open receiver or you want to see a big run play. If you see cancan, it's a tackle for two yard loss. Hey would probably.
- [09:50]
Matt Abeticola
Well, that's what I was going to say because part of the the in the advanced game there could be something shown that they want to get to the canned play and then they say we got him because that wasn't what we intended. And him recognizing that second level of, oh, wait a second, he's moving but he's not really in, man, he's going to run back to a landmark. So. And I know that there are worlds of difference in some of those comprehensions and seeing it before the fact or after the fact. But Tim, when you. I saw a chart the other day, one of these plot maps that was done that was tracking what happens after initial pressure breaks through and how long before the throw. And it's a scrambling metric or what was called a. I think it was creativity time. And we can celebrate that and we can say, wow, look what Caleb's doing to keep a play alive to buy some of this stuff and then also say, I'd rather not have to rely on that. I'd rather not have that. That time being it. Sure compliment his feet, but it means maybe he missed something. And I'm trying to marry all of these things together in some perfect storm and I just don't know how long that's going to take.
- [11:12]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah, I do think that's going to be. I actually think that's going to be something that, you know, I think we could win a Super bowl in Chicago and I think that would still be a discussion. And the reason I say that is because I think that's him as a player. I don't think that's, you know, it's hard. I almost I have a really hard time and, you know, I break down the Broncos too. And then I have a hard time evaluating some of these young quarterbacks because they are so much more athletic than the quarterbacks of the past, myself included, where it's like, you know, I look at a play and I go, man, just get to your back, right? The back's wide open. A lot of it for me, though, is I never been gifted to get out of there, right? Like, I got out of there and fell over, you know, like, that was my game. So it's. It's hard to evaluate some of these guys where you go shoot, you know. You know, there was a great play on. It was the. It was the one that DJ Moore could have made a really tough catch in the end zone. Yes.
- [12:03]
Matt Abeticola
He's running to his right. Yep.
- [12:05]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah, yeah. And it's like DJ is actually kind of open on a concept that we could have just got the ball out had he navigated, I would say, a Tom Brady ask navigation of the pocket, which is also extremely difficult. Instead, Caleb Bales gets to him late and then it kind of blew up on Twitter. This guy that was breaking it down, he was like a Bengals fan or something, I think. But it was like, you know, there's a piece of me that's like, yeah, I understand what he's saying. Hey, you could navigate the pocket and get to dj. I also think we take for granted, like pocket navigation as if it's like, that's also equally difficult to. To get that acumen. And it's almost funny, the guys that get really good at it are, because, hey, they can't bail out of the pocket. So I do think it's something that will be a never ending battle for Caleb because of his athleticism. With that being said, the critique is still valid because we do need him to play on time more, and I think that's more sustainable for this offense. What I will say too is he actually finally has an offense where it pays off to play in structure. Like last year we would joke about it, right? Where it's like, hey, playing structure. But yeah, you're going to get to Cole Comet, who's also double covered, right? It was like, you're, like, you're, you know, there's not great options now, by and large, most of these concepts do have somebody that if you get to, he will be open. And I do think Caleb's going to have to. He's going to have to grow in that aspect. And I, and I do think again, I think that's something that he's going to be battling with his whole career. With that being said, I don't view it as the worst battle ever. Like, to me it's like if I was a quarterback coach in their building, I'd rather be fighting that, oh hey, I got a guy who's maybe too talented than fighting the like, hey, I got to get these nine plays out of our playbook because we can't make that throw. It is a better, it's a better battle. I do think Ben too is one of those guys that I don't think he'll let people skate by. Like, I don't think he's in that building going, oh sure, you made a good play, so it's fine. I think he is riding the quarterbacks. I think he is holding everybody accountable, which I think is really beneficial. And it's funny to say that because then people are like, what, not every NFL building? And it's like, no, not every NFL building. Coaches, superstars, hard. And I do think we have a coach who I do think is crazy enough to do that, which I think is always beneficial to an organization.
- [14:30]
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- [14:46]
Dan Bernstein
Heard from Ben Johnson yesterday talking about Caleb escaping the pocket and leaving opportunities for explosive plays downfield. And he even made a comment in his, in his, in his media session that when the building's on fire, the house is on fire, he needs to stay in there just a little bit longer and there's some opportunities that might be down there for those explosive plays. How does a head coach unlock what he wants out of his quarterback while still helping him maintain who he is as an athlete as well.
- [15:13]
Tim Jenkins
It's such a, that is such a, I mean that is the, whatever Caleb's contract is going to second contract is going to be right? Let's say half a billion or whatever homes and those guys are making. That's the half a billion dollar question legitimately is how do you coach these high end athletes on trust yourself in these situations. To me it all comes down to football acumen. If we have a shot play called and we know, hey, quarters or cover two or cover three, hey, it's a premier look against cover three. Cover three has got to be when you are willing to take a Sack because I hung in the pocket. Then, hey, guess what? They went quarters. This isn't a premier look against quarters. We still like it, but it's not a premier look. Boom, now you get out of the pocket. To me, it's all football acumen, it's all growth and post snap recognition, which. And again, I'm not trying to take a shot at Lincoln Riley. I don't think that's been that. I don't think that's been anyone's focus. Whoever Caleb Williams high school coach was probably got Caleb Williams as a freshman and thought to myself, I'm the luckiest guy ever, right? I'm not going to cut. Like, I don't need to ride this dude. Let me make sure he graduates from our high school like he's a superstar. Lincoln Riley throws him in there. He placed it well in the go fast. Like this is his first time, I even think ever, like, I think his whole football career that someone has said, hey, we like, we like, you know, they run Machete all the time. Hey, we like Machete against quarters. If it's quarters, I'm willing to let you get sacked so that you're hanging on to see Rome. See these, you know, DJ all the way across the field, hey, guess what? If they could get to cover three, go extend, it's a lot for him to process, but I think that would be it. Like if, for me, if I, if you said, hey, you're going to get Caleb in February and you know, you have him for the off season, that's all we would be doing. Covered shell rotation against Premier looks with the pocket collapsing because I don't need to coach him on how to throw like he's a Ferrari, right? Like he already knows how to rip it. I need to make sure we need to put the shine on the tires because the shine on the tires for a kid like that takes him from, you know, hey, we have good season, we have bad seasons to like, we are great all the time. And those are the kind of guys that to me like can go change franchises. So that's where he has to go, though. He has to recognize coverage. Premier looks only, you know, take sacks against premier looks because you're hanging on the concept so long, everything else bail out of there, be Caleb Williams. That would be kind of what I'd be hammering home to him.
- [17:37]
Matt Abeticola
What is Machete?
- [17:38]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah, I was going to ask that.
- [17:39]
Tim Jenkins
Oh, it's, it's so. So they're samurai, right? So samurai means the guy, let's just say guy on the right guy on the left doesn't really matter, but it's a two receiver concept. Guy on the right runs what we call stick at eight posts, 14 yards down the field, three steps to the corner, take it to the goal post. Other guy runs a deep over, aiming 18 to 20 over the ball, flat across. So that's Samurai. Well then someone said, hey, let's not do a post. Let's run double deep over. So both at 20, kind of like downfield mesh. And then they're like, well we got samurai. What's kind of like a samurai. It's a machete. Right. So then they went machete, which is the double deep over. So where they Both are running 20, it's basically 20 yards down the field. Match is a great way to think about it. Whether it's a rub route, but it's 20 yards down the field.
- [18:22]
Matt Abeticola
So what would be, what would be the, the premier cover? Like if you, if you know you've got Machete called.
- [18:29]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah.
- [18:30]
Matt Abeticola
Do you want to see then like two man, I'm trying to think of.
- [18:35]
Tim Jenkins
Like you want to see quarters. If you see quarters, you're good. Okay. You're good because that the number one or the corner will pass you off and really you're going to run those against the safety. Okay. Like to me, I always love Machete against quarters. Especially like Ben will pair it with a post as well to like clear a lot of people out. And then you have the flat control. He like usually does like the double flat control. He runs it really. In my opinion, they run it really well. You know, it's funny too. Machete is the concept that got Pat Shermer the play calling duties removed at CU. But if you watch the all 22, he kept calling Machete. It was wide open. The quarterback just didn't get there. So I don't blame Shermer one bit. But you know, Dion's running a little different, so. Yeah, it was. Yeah. Anyways, the Bears do it really well, but quarters would be the one that I'd say, hey Caleb, give it a real chance. If they kick it to single high, let's peak Rome and then you can go create.
- [19:29]
Dan Bernstein
Now if you look at Ben Johnson after nine games, how do you evaluate Ben Johnson as a head coach? First time head coach from game one, Minnesota, the collapse in the fourth. Yeah, they lose really bad to Detroit. Now Here they are 6 and 3 after 9.
- [19:41]
Tim Jenkins
I think the best thing you could say about him, and this is just me being honest is the. We always, we knew his play Calling was going to be good. We knew they were going to be an elevated schematic offense compared to what we've seen. I think the biggest compliment to him is that we finally have a Bears team. And, like, you know, I haven't been in as long as you guys, right? Like, I've been a fan as long as I've been breaking them down, but we finally have a team that actually feels like if we get to the fourth quarter in a tight game, we won't collapse. Like, to me, that's the best thing is he's instilled belief in this ball club. Like, I'll never forget Thanksgiving last year. You know, my father.
- [20:19]
Matt Abeticola
None of us will.
- [20:20]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah, My father in law bets the bears when they're plus 2,000. Yeah. 200 bucks down. He's got four grand on the line as a cash out. And, you know, I thought I was a bad gambler. My father in law is a degenerate. Like, he let it ride. And then Matt Eberflose gets us out of field goal range and we lose. And I started thinking to myself, I'll never forget this game, but partly because of how funny that was. But I also think, like, we finally have a Bears team that you can sit there and in the fourth quarter like, this last game, I was like, are you kidding me? It's like I finally start believing in this team and then they're letting us down. And then, boy, was I wrong. They come firing back. And that's, to me, his signature so far. Granted, we're running great stuff on offense. I love watching the film every week. His signature is a head coach though, right? Because he's not just an OC anymore. The head guy is that. That we finally have a ball club that doesn't feel like they're out of it. And if you really look back at how we've gotten to six and three, you could really make us. We should be seven and two.
- [21:21]
Matt Abeticola
Right?
- [21:22]
Tim Jenkins
There's some arguments out there of like, man, we've let a couple the week one slip away from us. This ball club could easily be 7 and 2. And to me, I think a lot of the teams that I was worried about look more human than maybe I thought they did early. Like Green Bay and Philadelphia. That game was not pretty. And I know there were some elements and I know, you know, but they don't look unbeatable. And again, I don't know where if our defense is good enough for us to go make a deep run, but shoot, you generate a couple of turnovers. And then Ben gets a little creative. I think we've got a chance to be competitive in some of these ball games that I think down the stretch, people at the national level are thinking the Bears can't, Can't win.
- [22:03]
Matt Abeticola
I've been disappointed in the screen game from the Bears. Yeah, I thought there was going to be a larger role, especially against some of these pressure packages and especially going into this week and knowing that Brian Flores is going to dial up some exotics and some green dog stuff that I just, I can't wait to see if they can just get a level ahead for some easy yards. Why hasn't that come along? Especially with the interior of your line being so good and with a quarterback this mobile, it just a little strange for me that, that that part's lagged.
- [22:42]
Tim Jenkins
I think it's interesting. I think it's interesting that you bring that up, because I agree that you haven't seen, like, screen explosives. I also, like, don't even feel like we've really seen that many screen attempts. Like, if we're being honest, like, I don't feel like we're getting to them. There's a piece of me that wonders if it's like, they're so good right now in the run game that Ben kind of feels like I'd rather just, instead of seeing if this screen can pop, I'd rather just run, you know, power. And hey, we're getting six, seven. It feels like we're gashing people in the run game, so I wonder if that's a piece of it. But I agree that has to grow, especially considering what we've got coming up down the stretch. And I don't believe that there's a better way to get a quarterback into a ball game. If they're having a tough day, then, you know, hey, flip it to your back. And, oh, he went and got 15. You start feeling good, like there's no better way. So I, I think the screen package is there. I, I, you know, you know, they have it on that big old call sheet.
- [23:39]
Matt Abeticola
Well, they've also run one.
- [23:41]
Tim Jenkins
Gotten to it.
- [23:42]
Matt Abeticola
They've run one that's been sniffed out three times. And we've noticed this. Matt has noticed this, too. It happened against the Vikings with Andrew Van Ginkel. I think it happened with Max Crosby in the Raider game. And then it also happened last week where whoever was, I want to say it's the, it's the seven technique or eight technique has jumped it, has nearly either picked it or had a really good shot at batting it. Down sometimes it's DJ Moore, whatever.
- [24:13]
Tim Jenkins
That.
- [24:14]
Matt Abeticola
Yeah, they've got it. They've got it wired. And that's the one they've seemed to like.
- [24:20]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah, yeah, I think I would also. That's like, those, like, hey, we're gonna try to flip it in the slot really fast. I think those are even. I would bet you that bins on your team of those need to stop because I think those are run adjustments, meaning we have a run play called, hey, if the box gets a little tight, throw it out there. But what you're starting to see NFL teams do a lot is, you know, it's a run adjustment. So we have a run play called, hey, if that linebacker gets tight, throw it out to our slot. But what you're seeing is they're actually tightening up the linebacker and widening like you're pointing out the dn. They're getting them into, like, a wide nine. And then it's those guys like Crosby, the. The kid for Minnesota that you said, he's a great.
- [24:59]
Dan Bernstein
Yep.
- [24:59]
Tim Jenkins
These guys are, you know, we. We all. I think a lot of times, and this is like, as a culture, and I. I've always joked about a lot of times we, like, see these guys. And again, I'm not going to act like football players always do smart stuff, but we see these guys do some stuff off the field. We go, what are we doing? But as a football player, they're as smart as it gets. Like, I remember we had guys that. It was like, you know, you'd go buy a 30. You know, your signing bonus was 75 grand. You ghost buy a 75, 000 car. That's dumb. But you get them in there and you go, hey, what's your post adjustment against court? And it's like, everything's right. So to me, it's like, we got to separate the two. These guys are great at pattern recognition. Oh, hey, I've seen this formation. I know this. But these NFL defenses now, man, they're tightening up that backer so they're better in the box. It makes the quarterback feel like he's got to flip it out there, but you're dead on those. And those are the kind of defensive plays, to me, where it's like, if you pick that off and house it, those are complete game changers. And the risk Reward is maybe 8 yards. Right. Like, to me, it's. I wouldn't be surprised to see us get out of the run adjustment game, especially the one Caleb Williams decision that I thought was really poor was the one on One he threw to Rome when you could tell they had a run play called at the end zone. At the end zone. Now the snap was bad, right? So it's hard to really lay everything at the feet of Caleb. But that was one of those decisions where we throw the one on one. And I know Ben called that run play because they were going to go for it on fourth down. He called it to get a little bit tighter so that the run. So hey if we went play action it's more believable or we might just run it on fourth down and goal and then it was like man, we get nothing. So then the field goal unit comes out. I do think that's the one area that I think Caleb still struggles a little bit. Is the true evaluation of is this box heavy or is this guy going to bail out? Is it really a good time to throw the run adjust and especially like it's hard. As a quarterback you always kind of bet on yourself right? In the, in the quarterback rooms you're usually taught like okay hey casino meaning bet on yourself if the box is funky, right? If you can't really tell casino the thing, bet on yourself. That's why we pay you more. What I would say is this run game has been elite and we got to I think maybe shift our mindset a little bit there of hey I know I've got a one on one here but like let's give our O line and back a chance because they've been gashing them in the run game.
- [27:21]
Dan Bernstein
Now you know, if you, if you take that and the criticism about his, his vision, understanding of what's happening in the box and then you, you mix in the pre snap stuff you mix in the offensive line wasn't gel first few weeks. How does that, how do those situations and those deficiencies impact a screen game though too? Because you're talking about a timing and understanding and getting the ball throwing it at a, at a point that, that the you. You expect the receiver to be. How does that impact their, their screen game ability?
- [27:50]
Tim Jenkins
Probably a ton. The other thing that I would tell you that probably affects it a ton and like this is just, this is pure speculation but I could tell you that if you drop me in as an OC in the NFL my screen package would be built as a kill and can package. I would never call it, hey, I run it run screen like meaning run it. This is the only play only I would never call a screen in there. I would always be hey we're run game can to screen because hey, here's what I want you. Here's the heat indicators in this, you know, formation. If we get this can it, I want to try screen, which then could also be like, you know, for all we know, Ben's called in 14 runs. Can it. Screens. We just haven't gotten to them right. And it's like that could be another piece of this puzzle. Like, you already pointed out all those other things. But in addition, it could be. We're actually calling these as a can package and we're just not canning it to that.
- [28:46]
Matt Abeticola
Look, how do we deal with dropped passes? Meaning as a fan, I know what I'm doing and I'm stomping all over the house and I'm kicking things and I'm throwing things. I saw some bad body language from Caleb. I saw a little bit of that. And these are professionals. They know what their job is. Is there anything is there when you get back to the huddle is obviously, I think Zacchaeus is coming back. Like, my bad, my bad, my bad. So what's the pro. What's the professional protocol at that level of dealing with a bad drop day?
- [29:24]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah, what I'll tell you. So there's two things. One, I agree with the body language stuff, and that is one thing that I think, like, as a quarterback, you've always got to be like, more like aware of it. Of like, dude, hey, like, you know, we're there to really build these guys up, especially in the game. Like, I. I wholeheartedly believe that. I know there are guys that go, like, man, I needed somebody to get on me. But, like, most people genuinely just need a buddy in the trenches going like, hey, man, I know you got this right. Like nobody. Like, every once in a while you need a good chewing, but it's like most of the time as a quarterback, I think you're called to, you know, build your teammates up, especially in game. I think a practice is where you need to be radically accountable. Like, that's kind of always been my philosophy on it. What I will say though, the most, I think so in my breakdown this week, I got so mad, I got like borderline. People in the comments were like, this is hilarious. Like, I was so upset. But it was not the drops. Drops will happen. It was the scramble play that Caleb gets hammered at the two yard line. Oz does not block his guy at all. He jogs across the field. His guy is jogging right next to him. His guy speeds up and hammers Caleb and I'm like, bro, what are you tired from running down the Field and dropping the ball, like, it made me. So I got so mad about it because I am such a big, like, reverence for the game of football guy and like, effort. I'm really big on it too. At the pro level. I'm big on it with like, I coach third graders and I'm mad at them for effort. I'm really big on it. When season tickets nowadays, like, or when like our guys are getting paid per game what most of the fans make a year, like, it really upsets me. Then when you can't elevate yourself, especially when we've seen the greats like Michael Jordan say, like, man, I didn't want to take a game off because I know there was some guy who spent a bunch of money to bring his kid, right? Like, to me it's like you got to have that kind of reverence, I think for the fans because otherwise playing football would suck if it was just like 20 people there, right? Like, it wouldn't be any fun. So those are the kind of things that are really upsetting. Back to the drops thing. It's hard because there's a big piece of me that thinks you got to get him out of the lineup, get burdened in the game, see if he can correct it. But like, that's a recipe for a guy to never be the same. So it's like you've got to walk that fine line of keep targeting him. He's got to do the work, though. Like, it is what it is. You'd start dropping the ball. You got to get on the jugs machine. You've got to stay after. You've got to like, you know, I think that to me, like, I've always joked about my job with high level quarterbacks has always been more psychology than physical.
- [32:01]
Dan Bernstein
Right?
- [32:01]
Tim Jenkins
Like, there's stuff we work on, but it's more reminding these guys what got them to where they're at. And I think that's what Oz probably needs more than anything is like, dude, like, you're here for a reason. Like, like, to me, those are the kind of games that like, can just plummet confidence. And then you guys know how it is. You start thinking, oh, I'm going to drop the ball. You start dropping the ball. So there's a combo of, you know, just sheer reps. Go get on the jugs machine, do this. And then there's the wide receiver coach coming alongside of him, reminding him that, hey, you're a great player. We know what you can do. And then there is the mixture of give somebody Else some more reps. He still has to go out there because if we just shut him down completely, he'll never be a quality receiver again. Like, I wholeheartedly believe that. So it's like, you've got to mix him in. But simultaneously, he had four, like, meaningful drops in that game where they're inexcusable. They're not like, oh, like the dj, more cash in the end zone. Like, that's one that you go, like, if I'm the receiver coach for the Bears, I'm telling dj, like, dog, this is. That's you. That's. You're great. You finish that play simultaneously. It's kind of like, that's hard play. Right. The dig route, though, that. It's like Oz drop. That's. You could pull people out of the crowd. They could catch that one. Right? Like, those are the kind of plays where you go, man, we've got to like, you have to have that.
- [33:22]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah. And it's. It's crazy to think that guys at that level of play, that the best of the best with the money they're earning, can lose that mental confidence. I know you've talked about it in coaching youth. Like, if you tell a youth wide receiver, don't drop the ball, don't drop the ball, they're going to go out there and just do nothing but drop the ball.
- [33:37]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah.
- [33:38]
Dan Bernstein
And it's just. It's crazy to think that professional athletes have to be coached that way to have their headspace in the right way. I don't know if you've looked ahead a little bit to Minnesota at all, but in the Bears and what the Bears need to do to be successful offensively against Minnesota.
- [33:51]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah, I think handle the pressure. Right. The pressure package is going to be huge. Caleb needs to make sure that we're making the right guy, you know, manipulating the mic to protect it. Like, there's. That's going to be. That'll be the story Monday. If we handle the pressure well, the story is going to be the Bears, in my opinion, role. Like, I think Minnesota is a team that I think we can generate the two or three turnovers needed, and then I think our offense can roll. If we sit there and we, you know, to me, if Caleb Williams is scrambling the whole day, it's because we didn't handle the pressure well. And that's going to be the. That. I think that's the storyline. If we handle the pressure, I think we're going to have it schemed up, ready to go. I also think Ben is. He's one of those guys. He's got some shots dialed up. He's got some stuff ready to go to slow this pressure down simultaneously. Caleb's gonna have to handle it, the line of scrimmage, make sure we're Mike in the right guy. If they handle the pressure, I think they roll. If they don't. These division games, and you guys know division games in the NFL, they're always. They're always tight. It's always. It don't matter. You know, they, you know, you could have the one and, you know, the two and six Raiders are going to play the Chiefs tough because it's a division game. Right. Like, that's always how they are. But I think the Bears have the makeup, and I think this team plays to what we need defensively, which is we need to force turnovers. Defensively, we're not going to consistently, I think, generate great third day. You know, hey, we three and outs. I just don't think that's our defense right now. They set up well to generate turnovers to where if the offense can handle business, handle the pressure, they're going to. They're going to have a good day.
- [35:22]
Matt Abeticola
Something that came up earlier this week that I wanted to ask you is I have been very attuned to Ben Johnson's use of pronouns when talking about Caleb Williams.
- [35:33]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah.
- [35:34]
Matt Abeticola
Just like you do with teams that you critique. You use the term we.
- [35:40]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah.
- [35:40]
Matt Abeticola
And that is a coaching thing. It's a coaching thing. That is. And what I would love to hear you explain is what the difference in words may mean when Ben Johnson refers to or answers a question with we on a given play or if he answers a question with he.
- [35:59]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah.
- [35:59]
Matt Abeticola
Is that meaningful? Is that something. It just does. Does the player hear that differently?
- [36:06]
Tim Jenkins
I would say. I would say yeah, if the. Like, to me, if. When you're saying we, this is like, I genuinely believe this when you're saying we, you know, a lot of that means, hey, this is like a whole. We've got a whole offense, like, issue here. We need to handle the pressure better. Meaning we're probably not protecting the right guys. We're probably not miking the right guys. Hey, I got to get a better protection plan. As a coach, when you say he, like, you're pointing it out, like, especially a guy like Ben Johnson, who I do think is not naive to the psychology of this, because we also got to remember Ben Johnson. The Lions got a guy who you want to talk about being a confidence, like Jared Goff coming to Detroit. That was an insult. Right. And, like, I think Jared Goff's a competitor and handled it well, but, like, we're all humans. We get what it's like. You know, we all remember when our first girlfriend moved on from us, right? You weren't confident. You know, like, we know what it's like. So to me, it's like he's attuned to that. He knows how to navigate the confidence building. So, yeah, when I hear him say he. And it's like, to Caleb Williams, I think he's gotten to the point where, hey, I've coached this three weeks. You're still not addressing it. Hey, listen, you know, this is what he needs to fix. And I think smart coaches use the media that way as well. And I think Ben is. I think he's very smart in terms of when he gives you coach talk and then when he says. When he's saying. When he's critiquing a player, I think he's very smart about using the media to his advantage, which I think, like, is. And again, like, I don't want to go on, like, a rant of like, I'm an old guy and the kids nowadays, but I do think it's more impactful to players nowadays when you critique them through the media than I do think it was in the past. I think. I just think we're more. I think players now are more in tune with what's getting said about them on social media and all that stuff. Like, I think people will tell you, I turn it off. I have. I haven't coached a kid through our program that I believe that anymore. Like, and again, I don't think that's a. I don't think. I'm not saying it's good or bad. All I'm saying is I think they're more coachable through the media now than ever before. And I think good coaches are going to use that to their advantage. Like, I could tell you. Like, I think. I think nowadays kids, it's better to pull them. I think quiet criticism is really good for athletes nowadays. The first few times you're coaching it. Like, I think we're going to see a. I think effective coaching. You're going to see a lot more pulling a kid aside, addressing an issue than the old school. You know, run it again, Sims. You know, like the Jon Gruden clips. Like, I think that's less effective now. And again, I don't think, like, you know, a lot of guys would be like, well, it's bad. They're soft now, which, like, sure, it's different. Like, but, you know, people called me soft when I was coming up because the coach couldn't hit us anymore. Right. Like, it's just like, you know, it's just like, it is what it is. But I do think nowadays, when coaches use it, especially young coaches, that I think are attuned to this, I do think it's. It's more impactful, and I think it solves issues. And I think you can use the media to maybe deliver a critique better than what. What we've been able to in the past.
- [39:29]
Dan Bernstein
All right, Tim, last thing I have for you. I know that you're. You're a film junkie, and I know that you're always busy, but if you have extra time and you're going to go watch some film on a quarterback or two in the league right now, who are you going to watch first?
- [39:41]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah, for me, it'd be. Number one would be Drake May. Because just like, of what I'm hearing about Drake and the Patriots, right. Like, I'd love to see kind of dive into that, the X's and O's, and see what. You know, it's funny because, like, I'm interested, obviously, in the quarterbacks, but I'm actually more interested in how the coaches handle them. Like, I'd love to see what Josh McDaniels is doing to aid in the development. And then the other one's Daniel Jones. I just want to see how somebody goes from, like, basically the doormat of what everyone says, right, to playing it a darn near, like, NFL MVP level like that.
- [40:15]
Dan Bernstein
How's that happened?
- [40:16]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah, I mean, it'd be interesting, I think, you know, obviously the guy today just fired last week, people are thinking, partly, that's him, right? Davel's out the door. So to me, it's like, I think it's.
- [40:28]
Matt Abeticola
I.
- [40:28]
Tim Jenkins
Here's. Here's my last thing I'll say. And I don't want to go on too long of a rant, but the last thing I'll say is I think we, as evaluators, myself included, we way too often think, you know, hey, you compare Josh Allen to a bad quarterback in the NFL and, oh, there's a huge look. Look at the quarterback advantage. I think we underestimate dang near tenfold the head coach, O.C. d.C. Advantage. I think that's a real thing. I think there are huge spreads in who can actually develop an offense that you can go execute. I think every OC ever in the NFL, if you give them a. If you give Them a marker and put them on a whiteboard. I think they can blow you away. I think the relaying of information of, hey, here's how to process this play. When people are trying to kill you and you have three seconds, I think the despair. I think that is, to me, a huge, huge spread of the way you relay information, how you can actually teach. I think we take for granted that those are common or like, similar, and I don't think they're remotely similar team to team.
- [41:36]
Matt Abeticola
Last thing I have for you, Tim, and we certainly appreciate your time with us today. The college quarterbacks that I've watched as a Heisman voter, I have to watch these guys for their collegiate performance. But I, I'm really also just trying to do that to turn off the scout's eye, which I kind of can't because I'm always thinking, next level, next level. And between the three best that I've seen so far, I'd say I would like the athletic ability of Dante Moore, the balls of Fernando Mendoza, and the release out of the hand and the arm swing of Ty Simpson. That would, that would be sort of my idealized. Who. Who. Has anybody jumped out at you as an NFL prospect from the college ranks?
- [42:24]
Tim Jenkins
The kid that I love right now, and it's like, I haven't done like a deep dive on him, but the kid that I love is the Mendoza kid. I think there's something, again, it's like what I just talked about. I think Signetti is the real deal and how to get a kid playing well. Like, I think he's the real deal. But what I love most about the Mendoza kid is you just watch some of those drives. Like, you can tell his feet are working the progression. And that's what I think we take for granted in the eval jump to the pros, is we think about how often we talk about these young quarterbacks. Oh, hey, he's bailing on the pocket. Well, did you ever see him read a play in college? Like, you know, a lot of these guys. And again, I'm not like critiquing Caleb specifically, but just a lot of them broadly. It's like, no, you didn't. You saw them look at a first progression and go, make something special happen. That's why we drafted him, because of the making something special happen. The Mendoza kid seems like the kind of kid that might sneak up on you, go in the second, go in the third round, maybe someone takes him late first, and then all of a sudden you go, hey, guess what? He's actually A decent pro. You know, those are the ones that.
- [43:28]
Matt Abeticola
There is no way he is getting out of the top half of the first round.
- [43:31]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah, yeah. And no way. I, I hope that too because I hope we start to draft like on what I believe is like meritocracy of quarterback play and less on traits. With that being said, it just always feels like he's the kind of kid that will fall down the draft because someone else ran faster in the underwear Olympics or someone else, oh my gosh, look at that 80 yard ball on the run and his pro day. And I'm like, dude, you know what I want to see someone do with their pro day? And I've always joked about this. I've always joked about this when we're prepping college guys. I'm like, I want to, I want to set up tailback slow screen and have a D lineman on him and I want my quarterback to dirt the ball like I like, you know. All right. We always joked about it that like we always joked about it. We had this kid, P.J. walker, that it was like his football cute. He was a great guy. Former Bear number two, like to me would have been a great number two like long term in the NFL. But we always joked about it like, man, I should have had a slow screen that he dirts because Belichick would have taken him first over all then, you know, like Bill Belichick's the kind of guy that you dirt a screen. He's going to go, yeah, that's my guy. You know you want. So I've always joked about something like that. But that is what I like. Quarterback play. That's going to translate to being effective in the NFL. And that's what I do think that Mendoza kid and the stuff that I've watched, I think he has that.
- [44:53]
Dan Bernstein
Well, I'm going to let it slide that neither one of you mentioned Diego Pavia, but that's fine. It's not, not for now. But Tim, thanks so much for your time, pal. This has been great.
- [45:01]
Tim Jenkins
Thanks fellas. I appreciate you guys.
- [45:03]
Matt Abeticola
That is Tim Jenkins of T. Jenkins Elite on Twitter and the All Things quarterback channel on YouTube. Awesome, isn't he?
- [45:12]
Dan Bernstein
I could just keep talking youth stuff though, with him. That was great. Really, really good.
- [45:16]
Tim Jenkins
Hey, you know, for.
- [45:17]
Dan Bernstein
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- [46:44]
Matt Abeticola
That's going to do it today for Forward Progress, a Chicago Bears podcast. And we're looking forward to tomorrow where we're going to be joined behind enemy lines of Vikings. Report from Paul Charchian. So don't miss that.
- [47:11]
Tim Jenkins
Forward Progress, a Chicago Bears podcast with.
- [47:15]
Dan Bernstein
Dan bur and Matabeticola on 312 Sports.