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- [00:00]
Tim Jenkins
I mean, if you're a Bears fan, you're thinking forward Progress. Come on.
- [00:05]
Dan Bernstein
10, 2, 19.
- [00:07]
Tim Jenkins
2, 19. Forward, progress. We're moving the ball.
- [00:14]
Matt Abaticola
A Chicago Bears podcast with Dan Bernstein.
- [00:17]
Dan Bernstein
And Matt Abaticola on 312 Sports.
- [00:22]
Matt Abaticola
We award you forward progress.
- [00:24]
Dan Bernstein
A Chicago Bears podcast here on 312 Sports. I'm Dan Bernstein, that is Matt Abaticola. And the Chicago Bears are getting set to take on the Rams here in Chicago on what is going to be a frigid Sunday night at Soldier Field in the divisional round of the NFC playoffs. And here to talk about everything going on with the Bears and with quarterbacking is our quarterbacking guru. The city's quarterbacking guru. Apparently he is Tim Jenkins, the former NFL or and collegiate quarterback and now a quarterbacking coach and athletic expert. You can find him on socials @t. Jenkins elite. So, Tim, how are you? How you been? Happy New Year.
- [01:12]
Tim Jenkins
I'm doing great. I'm doing great. I think. Yeah, we were joking a little bit before coming on. It's a cool time. Yeah. Especially after surviving all the Justin Fields breakdowns and everything and, and where we've been, I think. Yeah, it's. It's really exciting.
- [01:27]
Dan Bernstein
All right, so let me, let me pick up where I started our post game Saturday night when Matty and I sat down right after this thing went final and we're still kind of literally shaking. My belief is Caleb Williams in some ways is breaking what we do. The way that we use stats and video and probabilities and still shots and every tool at our disposal to create an objective rubric for quarterbacking is in the hands of Caleb Williams almost. It's like what a cubist painter would do. This might be over here and this is over here. Somehow the rules at times do not apply to him. And I think it's awesome.
- [02:27]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah.
- [02:28]
Dan Bernstein
But I'm struggling for some ways to use our systems and everything we do to make it make sense. And maybe we should just enjoy the fact that kind of some of it doesn't really make sense.
- [02:41]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah, I think, I think you're dead on in terms of the stats. Right. I think you're not going to look at the box score, especially completion percentage type things and really get an idea of how he played. I think, unfortunately. Right. As my wife would say. Because then people have to listen to me. The, the, the true answer is sometimes like, hey, we're gonna have to go through. I, I joked, you know, this last breakdown, it was like 25 clips. It went for an hour and a half, which you Guys know me. I'm normally like a 25, 30 minute guy. And then I'm like, man, people are gonna be sick of me. It went for like an hour and a half, but a lot of it was exactly what you're talking about, which is, man, we looked terrible on offense. And simultaneously, the box score looked horrendous from a quarterbacking perspective. However, there was actually a lot of breadcrumbs on the tape where you go, shoot, man, you know, we had a, you know, to me, the commit drop, then all of a sudden, the bat down on fourth down. There are significant plays throughout this game where it was almost as if you could go on third and fourth down. I hate saying unlucky, but it was. We had so many plays that I guess I would call unprobable that went against us. And then all of a sudden, to me, people are like, well, what's the difference with Caleb in the third and fourth quarter? Well, Comet catches the ball, the ball doesn't get batted down. Like, that's the difference, right? Fourth and eight. You know, we have a fourth and three. He has Luther Burden on a shallow route. The ball gets batted down. We all act like it's a terrible call. That play might be a touchdown. Well, then we have fourth and eight and he jumps through somebody and completes the ball. That's the difference, right? One drive extends, one drive stalls. And then the packers, you know, they're. They're not a terrible offense, right? They're going to move the football. So you sit there and you go, it was funny because I. And this is part of why, man, I wish that TV copy would zoom out a little bit because I'm just a degenerate. And I decide I'm going to bet throughout the whole game. The live money lines, however, I would have felt way better about those bets had the tape been. Had the TV copy been zoomed out, because it's like, holy smokes, we have plays all over this field. We just weren't making them. Whether it was the receivers catching Caleb throwing a good football early on, like, there were so many missed errors. But, you know, back to your point, you're dead on in that we don't have a traditional measurement. You know, you can sit there and it's like. And again, you know, I think his personality is kind of. Then, you know, made it to where it's not as enjoyable. But last night, right, you know, Aaron Rodgers was kind of the last quarterback from my childhood. I remember watching, right, where it's like, man, he's going to, you know, this might have been his last game. To me, I was sitting there, man, oh, that stinks. But you look at his box score and it's like he's going to complete 60 or 70% of his passes. But you never thought that that offense was going to be remotely as explosive last night as what you see from Chicago every week. So it is kind of one of those where he's breaking the rubric. And I also think it's why Ben Johnson can sit up there and his quarterbacks compete, you know, completing like 50% of his passes. And he goes, no, I like where we're at is because he knows what he's asking him to make. He's asking to make dig throws, you know, like deep overs. He's not asking him to make a ton of bubble screens. So I think we probably have to factor that in. But yeah, it's been, it's been a fun ride and it is interesting to see how much he is almost pushing against the grain of what we typically think makes, you know, quality quarterback play right now in the NFL.
- [06:06]
Matt Abaticola
So you take all of that, that everything you just said there and everything that's part of Caleb Williams and who he is as a quarterback. And Ben Johnson talked about this the other day, the balance he has to find as a play caller. How difficult is this job for Ben Johnson? Because he has the idea of getting Caleb warmed up and in a rhythm to throw the football. Yet the strength of his team throughout this year has been that offensive line and the run game and the production that Swift and Manungai have provided. Yet he has to find the opportunities to get Caleb warmed up and ready to go. Need to rely on the strength of what your team does well and yet you really can't measure what Caleb can do and when he's going to do it. So how difficult is this play calling for Ben Johnson right now?
- [06:49]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah, I mean, I don't want the job. Right. I mean the pay would be great and then if you were bad enough, you get fired and keep getting paid. But yeah, I don't, I don't want the job right now. I think, you know, you look at it from Ben's perspective, the other thing that's challenging is I would tell you that when I watch the tape, I think more Caleb's there has come on quick game than they do on down the field shots, right?
- [07:09]
Dan Bernstein
How so? Which, which errors?
- [07:11]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah. So to me it's like. So they had a, they had a play where it was on fourth down. We call, you know, Everybody knows Hank, where you have the. The sit route over the ball and you have double curl. Well, so hey, if, if you know, if the backer on the right side, if he leans in to take the Hank, boom. I work the curl to the right. I worked the curl the left, if that the left side backer. What the Bears do instead is they. They do Hank, but instead of running curls, they run double cops, which is a corner stop. You're still attacking the same part of the field corners and they stop, turn back to the quarterback. Well, that to me is like a glorified quick game, right? You could say downfield, but it's really quick game. So you're sitting there and it's. Caleb hangs on his deep Hank and then he forces it in there versus hey, resetting. He's got a guy wide open. Those I think he struggles with more than when you call like a true run action play action. Hey, we've got the deep over with the big dig route because it's like that he's just playing on time and he's ripping it now. You know, there's a guy on Twitter right now making fun of Caleb because he threw that one interception where it's like, dude, that's clearly supposed to be a dig route, but whatever. But Caleb's doing a really good job, I think in those sort of shot plays where that I also think compounds this play calling issue that Ben has where he's sitting there and he's like, man, you have this idea of I want to get Caleb into the game simultaneously. He's best when we're driving the ball down the field. So it's like, do you really want to come out in your first 10 and just, you know, hey man, we're gonna run the ball and throw shot plays. Probably not, right? That's a recipe for three and out and getting the Rams going simultaneously. It's like, shoot, that might be what they have to. That might be the difference between, you know, hey, how we're aggressively pushing the ball down the field late in the game when we're down versus how we start these games. Obviously there's a happy medium that they'll eventually find. But I do think this week presents an interesting challenge because it's one of those where I think the Bears run game, you can, you can try to keep this Rams offense off the field. I do think when I watch teams play, however in the playoffs, there's a piece of me that goes, you know, you think about when we've seen Mahomes in the Playoffs and Josh Allen and some of these great quarterbacks. And the nature is always, hey, run the ball, slow the game down, keep them off the field. I can't remember. And I know there will be someone listening to this who will tweet me and be like, all right, dummy, here's the time. But it's hard for me to remember a time, time where you saw a true, you know, keep the other team off the field, game plan and mentality lead to a big win. So for me, it's like, I almost want to reverse that, and I almost want Ben Johnson to be more aggressive, knowing that we've got to keep up with Stafford and McVeigh, because to be frank, I think we can like this Bears offense. You know, we can. We can look at some of the stats and where they struggle. But I don't know about you guys, but it does feel like every week I turn this. I turn it on, and I think to myself, dude, they are driving the ball up and down the field between the 20s. Now, of course, every team can stall out in the red zone, but holy smokes, it's like, it feels like, oh, dang it, we're pinned. And then all of a sudden, three plays later, it's like, all right, we're on their side of the field, right? I just feel like there's something to this, to this team where, especially late in the game, and I just want to see them get to that earlier. And I hope we don't go into the game plan, and I don't think we will with Ben, honestly. But I hope we don't go in there thinking, hey, let's keep Stafford up off the field. I hope we go in there thinking, you know, let's turn this into a draft meet and outscore him.
- [10:37]
Dan Bernstein
But isn't there also an understanding like the Eagles game, where, you know, that the running game takes a different kind of physical toll on your opponent? And we'll talk, I'm sure, about the difference. You're going up against their 3, 4, and knowing they've got that big nose tackle and they're anchoring things. But over time, some of those runs that are not paying off early can. Can get them late. This the exact same calls, whether it's outside zone, whether you have some of the, you know, they've run split flow, they've run duo, whatever it may be, right at some of these guys late in a game, it's going to be 7 degrees, it's probably going to be 5 degrees by the end of the game. And I'm just wondering how much investment, how you balance this with the quick strike cap, with the, with the investment in that physicality that pays off late.
- [11:33]
Tim Jenkins
I think you're 100% correct. I mean, you don't have to go any further than the Swift touchdown this last week, right? It's they pound the ball, pound the ball, pound the ball. And then guess what, you're at the six yard line, right? And you run basically a design cutback. You put Zakiyos in the backfield. So it's like, it kind of looks like a little funky look to where their eyes are going to go with him in the flat. But to me it's like you don't have to look any further than that to be that late in the game and basically have a walk in touchdown from the six yard line. That right there should be the only sales pitch needed to attack via the run game early. And I think they will. I think the, the bigger question is do we see them pair the run game with shot plays early or do we see them pair the run game with more of the quick game? That's what I think is going to be an interesting chess match. In terms of what Ben comes out doing, does he feel like he needs to sequence these calls differently that I'm really interested in? You know, I, I do think the screen game hasn't been utilized to the degree that it probably can. I mean, if you think about the first third and long they converted, what was it? It was just bubble screen, right? It was bunch, bubble screen. They flipped it out there, they converted it. And I think that that was an interesting call. When you think about how many of these defenses nowadays walk six, seven, eight guys up at the line of scrimmage and then bail out on third and long. I thought it was kind of interesting. Hey, we'll just go bunch, you walk seven guys up, guess what, we'll just throw it out there and you know, we'll trust our guys to block two on two and our guy to pick it up. I think it's an interesting kind of piece of it. Obviously it plays into then later in the game when they pump the screen and go vertical. But I do think, you know, that's what I think I'm most interested to see. I think you're dead on that. Hey, we've got to attack, especially in the run game. Especially, you know, considering the conditions. I'm interested to see what we pair with that run game early on.
- [13:21]
Matt Abaticola
Talking about the run game and that touchdown by Swift, how surprised are you this year and what you've seen from DeAndre Swift, given the fact it's his sixth year, his production has gone up the last three years and that goes with more carries, obviously. But to produce what he's doing this year, in his sixth season on this team, what have you seen from the start to finish and your level of evaluation.
- [13:43]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah, you're dead on. He looks like a completely different player. Right. And I think, you know, it's easy to say, okay, hey, look how explosive he is in the, in the running game when we block everybody up. I think he's doing a heck of a job. When you think about, hey, what, what? You know, you look at his yards per carry when he gets hit at or behind the line of scrimmage, he's still doing a quality job of making a positive play, right? I think in the run game too, or in this, in the past game. I think he does a heck of a job too, whether it be protection or when they use him to get out in the, you know, some of those read flats when they're working those layer concepts. So, yeah, I mean, to be honest with you, it's an interesting one too because he comes from Detroit, right, where Ben was. It's just an interesting dynamic that he's been able to kind of restart his career, you know, and again, his production might be similar to last year. I'll tell you, as a player, though, it looks like he's way more explosive in this offense. It looks like he's, you know, I. They talk about run game tracks when you're a running back, right? Hey, you, you know, here's where we want you on this play. Here's where we want you aiming on this play. It feels like he's way more confident in his tracks in this where it's, you know, he presses the hole before he cuts versus last year. And again, I think last year is an interesting case study of, you know, how well were some of these things defined versus what they are this year. But I do think he looks way more confident in his tracks. And then obviously, I think he's. He's a key cog to this whole thing. It is popular to just talk about Caleb, right? And I do think there's a lot that he's done, obviously late in games to deserve that. But I do think, you know, you know, I think Manungai and him to me have been, you know, key cause of this thing rolling. Especially when you start thinking about how teams load the box at times against some of our personnel packages. It's obviously because they respect the way these guys can be explosive in the run game.
- [15:32]
Dan Bernstein
Unsurprisingly, we're already hearing the game framed as Sean McVeigh against Ben Johnson. And I kind of laugh because that really is not the case. It is Sean McVay against Dennis Allen. It is Ben Johnson against Chris Shula. And one thing I know Chris Shula is doing right now is figuring out how to neutralize or minimize Colston Loveland. Yeah, and look, it's make no bones about it, he's looking for 84 and this is, I don't think you can cover him with just one guy right now. I think he's leveled up multiple times in the last few weeks. The question I have to you is if you know that he might be bracketed, if you know that there's going to be coverage rolled in that direction, shaded over there and leveraged over there, what's the response? What now becomes more likely to hit? That's on your call sheet.
- [16:33]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah, I'm putting him outside. I'm putting him outside and I'm putting DJ or whoever I want to get the ball to in the slot. So hey, you want to bracket him, great. You're going to have to walk that safety out super wide to in order to bracket because now he's our number one receiver. So then you, you know, to me how you get there is interesting. You probably start, you know, to me, I'd start Colson Loveland in a three quarter split and I'd short motion down my receiver right to where they eventually get to the slot. My, you know, DJ Moore does Colson's outside. You want to bracket him, great. Then you go ahead and you can run some benders or you can run dagger, all the stuff that we love. And those middle of the field shots end up remotely wide open or you're going to walk that safety out, you're going to have to stick in too high and guess what? We're going to be able to run the football. So I think the fact that Loveland's come alive is huge to this. You ultimately are limited from a defensive perspective. I think in terms of how creative you can be when you double a tight end. Because when you have a bracket on the tight end, there's only so many things. There's only to me, there's only so many ways you can get to that and disguise it, especially with how much they move him around from a wing or oh, he's outside standing up as the slot. Like it's so much easier in my opinion, to bracket like an X right where you have that old school X receiver backside, it's so much easier to bracket him or, you know, play with your eyes to him and then leave the double if you have to. Whereas I think with a tight end, it's, it's significantly harder. I, I think you're dead on though. Can you cover him one on one in passing situations? I don't think so. The issue though becomes, is on first and second down against a 12 personnel, against the 13 personnel, do you really want to be bracketing him and taking essentially one out of the run game, or do you want to live and die with, okay, hey, we're going to play isolated coverage on him because we want another guy heavier in the box. That's going to be another interesting chess match of how do they play him on early down and distances. Because then when you go back and watch the tape, I mean, I'm telling you, we almost had three sail routes in a row to Colson Loveland for a touchdown. And I honestly think the last one, and I'm not usually one of those guys who's like, you know, begging for PI all the time. That last one felt like a big grab in the end zone, right to where it's like that's, that's tough for me to not think that that one's pass interference. But they didn't near hit three sales in a row to score a touchdown. So I don't know how you couldn't think that you're going to bracket him. The other thing is then you start thinking about, hey, what are Colson's routes that he's good at? Right? He's getting to the flat, he's running stick, he's running sale. He's not that, you know, you don't see him that often on the end breakers. You know he's there. But is he a primary on those? No. Which is another interesting one because then what are you going to do? You're going to put your backer and outside leverage on him when he's down in a wing, and if you do that, how easy is it to just run inside zone, which the Bears love to do? So it's, I think it's a tough, it's a tough one to decide how you're going to cover him. Which also makes me think, I wouldn't be shocked. You know, it's funny from a, from from a just logical perspective to say, hey, I watched that game and we're going to still play isolated coverage on, on Loveland seems insane. However, I think there's a really good chance we get it just because of, I think, how hard it is to double these tight ends. You think about the greats that we've had, Gronk, you know, Tony Gonzalez, all these guys, it was always harder to double them than it was Calvin Johnson. And it's because just the structure of an offense and how much those tight ends can move around and, and okay, now I've got a backer on him, but that backer needs to be in run support. It's just significantly harder, I think, to double those guys.
- [20:11]
Matt Abaticola
And what I love too about Loveland is if they are going to bracket him or try to double him at all. He has the ability to run routes outside the numbers, in between the numbers and the, and the sideline and Caleb has the ability to make those throws pretty easily to get him out there. So I love that they have that concept that they can also divert back to that, to kind of take away. All right, we're not going to do a sale route, we're not going to run the middle, but we're going to run him outside and he's going to blow past whoever you have cover him because it's not your number one quarterback on him. It's a linebacker or it's a nickelback and he's going to beat those guys easily. When you look at what he's done in the season, his progression and his growth and his learning of the run scheme and blocking and the passing tree routes and what he's done with his hands, how difficult is it, what he's done this year from his growth perspective, from coming in injured to where he is now as the best receiver on the team?
- [21:06]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah, I think, I mean, how difficult it is, it's extremely difficult, I think, just to get lined up in your assignment in this offense if you're a tight end, if I'm being honest, like, you know, we have San Francisco going to Seattle this week and we talk about the use check guy a ton, right. In terms of his usage from a motion perspective, a slice perspective, they're essentially asking Loveland to do a very similar thing and be better in the passing game. Right? So to me, it's. That's what's extremely difficult. I also am not going to sit here and pound the table in terms of. I think his blocking is elite yet, Right. I think there's a lot of growth there. However, we've never had a really great pass catching tight end who's a tremendous blocker, you know, Gronk comes to mind. He still would whiff a lot, right? Like, we all love Robbie G and hearing him on, you know, Fox, but let's be honest, he still wasn't elite in the run game. He was at times when you got a corner on him. Right. But I don't think, you know, those guys never want to really get their head in there and neither do I. So I don't blame him one bit for it, however. Just, he's always in a spot. He knows where he can and can't get beat. I think he's doing a really darn good job just in terms of, okay, all the shifts and motions that he's got to handle. And again, you know, I'm not saying I'm not as tight end coach, right. I'm not sitting here, you know, knowing truly, hey. His grades. But I'll tell you in terms of guys that I feel like, man, when I watch the structure of play, it seems like this is a busted route. He is very rarely that guy. So to me it's like, that's a tremendous sign when you can sit there and go, man, it feels like he's always in the right spot as a rookie with what I think the verbiage is coming into that huddle and what he's got to handle, I think that's a. That's a darn good sign into what he can become long term.
- [22:50]
Dan Bernstein
Pukinakua lines up at the X, the split end, at the Z, the flanker, and at the F, which is often the designated slot position. They move him all over the place to try to do exactly what we're talking about with Loveland, and that is create some of these mismatches. With everything you've said about these rules of thumb about you can do this with a tight end, you can do this with an X. What can you do with Nukua to be aware of whatever position he's playing to limit his effectiveness?
- [23:25]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah, this is one that I just. So I. You got to watch the first three passing attempts from this Rams offense because basically all three go to him and he's lined up in a different spot every single time. So it's like he's in a short split, he's in a cut split, and he's a Z. Okay. They hit it to him. Then he's in a wing split and they motion him into the fullback position and then they throw it flare out to him and then they line him up as tailback and they run Viper, which is an option concept, and he Scores a touchdown. So to me, yeah, what you're asking is the right question. How easy is it to double him is. It's virtually impossible without just designating two guys for him. That's why, you see, it's funny, because this is. This is what I always. I always think is funny, is because you sit there and you go, like, if you were just to drop a game plan from a logical perspective, you would say, okay, hey, here's the guy we want to double. Here's this, here's this. These great offensive coordinators know that, though, so they go, okay, hey, if you want to double him, guess what? We're going to line him up all over the field to the point that you would basically have to remove two players from your defense. Well, you can't do that and play, because we all love Ben Johnson and Sean McVeigh and LaFleur and all these guys that. And we all revere them like McDaniels. And we think, like, man, these passing concepts are awesome. Their run game is dynamic, right? Like, it's not just. They're not just spending all summer on, hey, I'm drawing up new passing cards, right? This is sophisticated run game, and that's why you can't do it. You can't just remove two. So he's one of those guys that, you know, to be honest, I have no idea really how you would do it outside of play soft. To me, I. I've always had this belief, and this is again, probably because I'm an offensive guy, but I've always had this belief where I prefer a press, heat them up defense when I see dynamic offenses, because I've always had this feeling where it's like, okay, one, can we get the ball of this quarterback's hand early? You know?
- [25:31]
Dan Bernstein
Well, that's what the Bears did in the second half. Yeah, and I did exactly, exactly what you're saying. It's like, look, we're going to. We're just going to speed everything up. And then if we stop the run on the way to the quarterback, great. And they did.
- [25:44]
Tim Jenkins
Yep. And I think, you know, there's a world in which the Bears, you know, walk a bunch of guys up. They run press, man, and Stafford just gashes them. Right? Like, that's very realistic because he's that good of a player. However, I think it's much better than what you saw the Panthers do, which is play soft shell with the game on the line. And it basically looked like a walkthrough. I don't know if you guys watch that game live, but it was like, you know, again, I'm big on the live money lines right now, but I tell you what, man, there's like, that was the easiest money I think I've ever made. That felt like a walkthrough. When you watch the Rams team get the ball, it was like they went down the field and it felt like on air, right? Like that was not difficult. And you look at it and it's soft shell coverage, and you just can't give that to Stafford. So to me, I think you're gonna have to go press, man. Will Puka still beat you? Inevitably, at times, yes. The same way I think DJ does, the same way I think Loveland does. With that being said, I think it's the only realistic way to force enough negative plays to hang in this. You know, we gotta keep. To me, I don't see. And I'm gonna say this, and then the Bears are gonna route them, and it's like, whatever, I'm an idiot. But I don't see the Bears winning this game by 10 plus. I could see the Rams winning this game by 10 plus, but I do see the Bears winning a tight one. And I think in order to generate enough negative plays for this to be tight, I think we've got to do that. Honestly, if this game's a blowout, one way or another, I would be thinking it's the Rams. If this game is tight, I don't know how you could bet against the Bears with everything that they've done this season. And a lot of people are going to say, oh, well, their schedule, okay, They've won a bunch of tight games against good ball clubs, too. So to me, if this game's tight, Eileen, Bears. If it gets out of hand, I'm thinking it's. The Rams are getting it out of hand again, I could be an idiot, but I just don't see a world in which, you know, we can kind of play soft coverage and think that we're going to contain this offense.
- [27:45]
Matt Abaticola
All right, so if you have that in mind, and you have to keep it tight to keep this game close, two of the most important players on the defense are Jalen Johnson and Kyler Gordon, guys that are rehabbing from injuries in the middle of a season, which, as you know, is nearly impossible to do until they get out of the season to rest and get ready. So what can the Bears do? And how can players like that where even not at their best, they're still better than the next guy up? What can they do to Be effective in this game. Guys like Johnson and Kyler Gordon.
- [28:16]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah, see, it's so interesting to me because it's like, you know, I don't know about you guys, but I'm watching that game late and it's clear, right? They are. They were just targeting one guy. There is a piece of me where I sit there and I go, do we really not have someone that can run full speed right now? Like, it's not a knock, right? It's. It's not that I don't think he's a good player, it's just that it's like, it just. If you can't run full speed, you can't run full speed. That I think is probably my biggest fear when I talk about, let's heat him up and play coverage. Because you're going to eventually have to get to, man, you know, how can they pull it off? I think obviously you're going to have to be as exotic as possible against this offense because you're. The thing that we, the thing that we take for granted is I think Sean and Ben are both equal in generating the wide open play. Right? Like we, you guys know, you know, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to say we have a lot more wide open plays for Caleb this year than last year. Right. Like, we just have better scheme. Sean and him are equal. Where the Rams have the huge edge is Matthew's been in this system for how many years versus Caleb. So it's like you have to then amp up the disguise because you no longer have the, hey, I might potentially bust this play just because I'm early on in the system. Right. Like the Bears still have that every once in a while. Where you can tell Caleb's feet are indicating. I'm not sure. Right. You can just tell that you ain't getting that anymore with Stafford. And that's part of what's great about keeping an elite quarterback. Like I think the Bears finally have. And then, you know, year two looks different. Three, four, five. We're gonna have to amp up the disguises. The only way I think, to truly hide those guys is be super variable in your pressure fronts. Be super variable in your coverage behind it. I always don't like the 33, right where you heat zone them with five and you play three deep, three under. I've always hated that coverage. We're gonna have to do it a little bit because it's just you. You can't sit there and only play, man with who we have out there. But we are going to have to. We're going to have to just vary the look. We have to make it to where they're snapping it with eight seconds or less and not because they're, you know, that's just the timing they want because he's trying to decipher. If we can get to where that play clock starts dwindling down frequently, that's a really good sign in terms of a veteran quarterbacks trying to sort it all out. And you have them on their heels a little bit. So that's something to look forward. You know, if you see Matthew Stafford stamping the ball with 12 seconds left, you know, 10 seconds left, we're going to be in trouble. Right. But if all of a sudden it's like it's getting late in the play clock because he's trying to decipher everything, I think that's going to be a positive sign for this Bears defense.
- [30:58]
Dan Bernstein
I think tempo then is something to watch too. Right. Because some of that is within McVeigh's control. And if we start seeing them realize that they've got a personnel group that they like or they've got a matchup that they like and they're begin to dictate some of that, that. That would be, in my mind, another indicator that, okay, this is. This is what we want. Keep it on, you know, get it. Get it moving, get in and out. Call multiple plays each huddle.
- [31:24]
Tim Jenkins
I've always loved. I mean, I. I don't know about you guys, but just from an offensive perspective, I really have always loved the sugar huddle. If you're kind of, you know, you're. If you've got somebody out there that you like. I've always liked that. Where it's the sugar huddle, we can still talk to our line, but it's like the receivers are all out there because. And then the threat of the receivers being out there forces them to not substitute. I've always loved that, you know, the substitution rules, where the guy then holds you up. It's a different world now, man. When I was coming up, I remember, you know, it was the start of that no huddle in college. I was kind of on the cusp of that RPO no huddle stuff. And it's like I remember yelling at the white, or not the white hats, but the umpire spot the ball, you know, I remember it was Chip Kelly, right?
- [32:07]
Dan Bernstein
Wasn't it? Chip Kelly. It was like Oregon and Chip Kelly was really the guy who was just like. Had forced them to have somebody standing on the football.
- [32:18]
Tim Jenkins
Yep. And I remember you know, I played good old D2R Mac football. Yelling at those guys. It's like the guy, you know, he's a hot dog vendor, you know, he just got done hot dogs. Now he's out there spotting the football and I'm just yelling at him, you know, but it was just a different world because we didn't have to wait. You know, we could be, you know, here's a funny story and this is what, you know, it's interesting because this is part of then what gets the rules modified. But shoot, you know, we had a rule where if you're running a deep route, you run a go route, you don't come back, you just run off the sideline. The next receivers on, right? If we threw the stick route, that guy runs off the field, next guy's on, we're ready to snap the ball. It's like we just ran their corner. Still 48 yards down the field, right? And we've got new receivers up, we're on the ball and these guys are sprinting back. And it's part of, you know, if I were to give you a long opinion, it's part of what I do think depleted quarterback IQ for a long time was that it was so much easier. All we saw was shell coverage because you couldn't get into anything else. Well, now then defenses, because they can sub, they're starting to amp up the looks and I think offenses haven't caught up yet. It's just, it's a whole interesting thing. We could talk this off season. It's an interesting concept, I think in terms of what, what hurt football IQ there for a while with some young quarterbacks. But back to what they're doing. Yeah, I love the sugar huddle. I do think you'll see it from the Rams where if they feel like they've got us caught in a personnel group, they will, you know, it's tempo, but it's not right. It's enough of a threat that Stafford could get under there and hey, he'll take advantage if you got 12 on the field so you can't sub. But simultaneously they're still going at whatever pace they feel like, but they're just got the threat of an imminent snap. So it's an interesting one. You're right. We will see that if they catch us in something, especially if they catch us in something where it's like we're forced to put one of our, you know, quote unquote, not full speed guys on one of their better receivers, if they catch us in something like that, you know, that's again where you see game management burn a timeout, you know, get the right personnel group on the field. But it's interesting, I, you know what, I would, I'd be lying to you guys if I said I'm not as excited about this matchup as I would have been if the Eagles pulled it off. Right. You know, it's kind of funny to say that, right? It's like I'd rather the higher seed of one, you know, I'd rather see the Eagles coming to Soldier Field right now with that being said. Shoot. We're in the divisional round of the playoffs. It is what it is. You're going to play good ball club. But I do think this Rams offense does present a, it presents a tough challenge for these guys.
- [34:47]
Matt Abaticola
You know, I've actually, Tim, I've called this NFC playoff so far the way I wanted to go. I wanted, I wanted the Niners to go to Seattle. I think the Niners will beat, Will beat Seattle, the Bears beat the Rams, and then the Bears get the Niners at home for the NFC Championship game, which would just be absolutely mind blowing. And looking at the wild card weekend though. So since the NFL expanded the playoffs, home teams have won about 66% of the time over the last eight seasons. That's dropped down to 53%. And then this past weekend we have five road teams win in the six games. The Bears, the only home team to, to win the wild card game. Why do you think that is happening within the NFL playoffs?
- [35:26]
Tim Jenkins
I mean, I think the four or five has always kind of been like that, right? The four or five has always kind of been like that. Where you felt like the five was better than the four. Four. Right. They just snuck in because the division was trash or whatever. But what I will say, man, is I, I don't know about you guys, but I do feel like the NFL is at an all time high from a parody perspective. I almost feel like, and you know, let's remove the quarterback position. But I almost feel like the biggest parody right now is coaching. I almost feel like we have so many where the spread like leans, you know, I'm almost betting on these head coaches more than anything. It's like, sure, your nickel corners better than ours, but we're going to actually get into quality looks. And again, I'm not trying to trash Sirianni or the Eagles or whatever, but it's like there's no shot. But you know, you start thinking about, hey, if this game's tight down the stretch who do you want calling plays, right? The Eagles guy or Shanahan? I don't even think that's a question. You know, to me, it's. You know, and I think Ben Johnson now has elevated the Bears into that conversation where it's like, you know, you have McVay coming to town, and he's proved it more obviously than Ben has. But I have a hard time thinking, man, we're like, if this was last year, I'd be excited to watch the Bears. But you guys know the deal, right? McVeigh coming to town, you thought we're going to lose by 30. Like, I mean, it just is what it is. And I know we pulled some games out last year, but Ben Johnson has us in a place where it's like, you feel so much more confident in this coaching. You know, if you were to give an edge to a coach, it's almost like you feel like, hey, McVeigh has, you know, he has a better track record. But, man, you feel like this Bears team wants to play for this dude, and you feel like this dude has them dialed in. So for me, it's. It's interesting. I. I think maybe the coaching spread is bigger. I also think the scheduling, to me, plays a factor because you sit here and it's like, you got Buffalo. And I'm not. You know, I'm not gonna lie, I don't know the numbers in terms of strength of schedule or whatever, but it does feel like you look at a team like Buffalo and it feels like they have so many dang primetime games against good teams that, yeah, it was inevitable that their record wasn't going to be as good as the Jack. The Jaguars. But, you know, you got Buffalo going down to Jacksonville, and I get it. Jacksonville is a complete ball club, and we're excited for Liam Cohen. You also got Josh Allen coming to town. Like, I don't. You know, to me, it's. You know, if the Chiefs would have snuck in there as a seven with. With Mahomes, you know, that game. If you. If instead of having LA go to New England, you have Kansas City, you know, you start sitting there going, maybe. Maybe I feel good about this other team going to New England. So it's just. It's interesting. It's an interesting time between the scheduling and the coaching parody that I do feel like it's created for an awesome product. I. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I was sitting down on Sunday. Granted, it was great that the Bears won Saturday. Right?
- [38:24]
Matt Abaticola
It certainly helped.
- [38:24]
Tim Jenkins
Still, great I was sitting there Sunday and it's like, dude, I was glued to that team. It was incredible just to watch that for the whole day. It was, it was awesome.
- [38:32]
Dan Bernstein
Can I go back to the chalkboard real quick? Because while I got you here, I've just. My things are kind of dancing in my head a little bit and it has to do with the assignments, with the roles of the Bears receivers now that Roma Dunze is back in Rome and Burden and DJ Moore. When you talk about the dagger concept, which in general, there's the speed clear out that is going to open up the deep cross when you have, when you called sail and the best of my understanding of sail is adding a third in there, adding a shallow cross to go with that deep 45 degree angle. And again that the clear out speed route. When you see how dynamic and twitchy Luther Burden is right now, is he the guy you want targeted on that cross or is his speed enough to merit the, the, the, the draw away attention with the deep shot? Like where how would you hand out these roles?
- [39:41]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah, it's such a great question and honestly, with those three, you're probably not wrong. However you do it. If you were to ask me, hey, Tim, you've. You've got to do it. What I'm doing is it roams in the slot, Roam's in the play slide slot, DJs outside. Because then Rome, if you think about it, Rome is our clear guy on Dagger where DJs got the big end and then Rome is our sale runner when DJ has to clear. So I put Rome in the slot, I put DJ outside because if I'm being honest, I like a 20 yard dig to DJ more. I just think DJ, I know he had the drop. I think he's a really tough football player. Like there's not a lot of times that I'm worried about throwing DJ more the ball over the middle. I think he gonna, he's gonna try to catch it no matter what. Luther to me is the one that I'm putting on the backside. And on Dagger he'd run the shallow because if I get man coverage, I'm just thinking let Luther run away from him all the way across the field and I'll get it to him and then he'll get, he's the guy that would motion then into trips and be the flat runner on the sale concept. And I love that because you're not going to hit him immediately. But if you get a bunch of sink in your coverage, you hit Luther Burden outside with a guy Eight yards.
- [40:40]
Dan Bernstein
Off him and he's only got one guy to beat. Yeah, there's no, there's no second guy there. Okay.
- [40:45]
Tim Jenkins
Yeah. So that's probably where I dish it out. I think, honestly, in any good offense, right, you're going to see those guys in all the different spots because you don't want to be, you know, you're not going to be limited to that. But if you were to say, hey, Tim, draw it up, it's third and third and got a habit in the fourth quarter, who's doing what, that's where I would be putting those guys. But if I'm being honest with you, Rome coming back from injury, if I'm third and gotta have it, man, I want the progression to go DJ More down. I mean, if I'm removing Loveland, I want DJ More to Luther Burden. Right? That's what I want right now. And again, it's not a shot at Rome, it's just where I think he's at coming back from injury. That's who I want. And if you watch some of the tape, Rome didn't have the same sort of separation on these overs and things that we've traditionally seen from him. And again, I do think there's a difference between being healthy enough to go and remembering what it's like to stair step somebody and get across the field in a game. And it's, you know, it's funny, I, I played for Jeff Fisher, who, you know, a lot of people remember as the 8 8. You know, I'm tired of this 8 and 8 BS. But what I, what I'll never forget him saying is talking to rookies and saying, I want you guys to understand the difference between practice speed and the preseason game. Preseason and a regular season and then regular season and postseason. It is so different. And again, this is Rome's first experience of that jump as well. So I do think, you know, I think we'd be naive to think he's going to jump back in and do it perfectly. I think we'll see a build throughout the playoffs. But if I'm saying, if I'm saying, if you're saying, hey, Tim, you got to call something, it's third and third and got to have it. I really, to me, the primary is D.J. my next guy's Luther. And that's kind of how I'd be rolling throughout the rest of these playoffs.
- [42:24]
Matt Abaticola
All right, Tim, last question I have for you. And I know you said you don't want the play calling job for the Bears, but I know you've watched so much film, and I know, you know, these guys, there has to be a point in time. You're watching film, and there's a play in your head. Yeah, you got this personnel, you got this staff right now, this roster, and you got one play to make. What play are you calling from the sideline?
- [42:44]
Tim Jenkins
I'd be calling waggle country. I think, like, if I had. If I had to. Hey, if I had one shot play to put in, it's. We're getting into 12 personnel. So we got Comet and we have Loveland out there, right. We've got Luther Burden right side. We got D.J. moore, left side. And what we're running is we're going to run country, so we're going to run waggle footwork. So play action, roll to the right. DJs gonna act like he's running the over route. He's gonna snap it back to the same side. Luther Burns on the big country post. So it's really a design throwback to dj, but if the safety rolls it, we've got the big country post. And then I'd have just.
- [43:22]
Dan Bernstein
They've run that.
- [43:24]
Tim Jenkins
They.
- [43:24]
Dan Bernstein
Don't you remember that was a Justin.
- [43:26]
Tim Jenkins
Field for the game winner against the Packers.
- [43:29]
Dan Bernstein
Yeah. And it was also a. That was Justin Field's favorite play, where they would run it to. To the second tight end.
- [43:35]
Tim Jenkins
Yep. Yep. See, I. I'm kind of naive. I don't like the tight ends in it. You know, I like the receiver purist.
- [43:42]
Dan Bernstein
I know you're a purist.
- [43:44]
Tim Jenkins
The big reason I like the receivers, you know, again, each team would be different, but the big reason I like it with the Bears is because I do think DJ Moore is a traffic catcher. So to me, it's like, we've always done that. You've always done that throwback with the tight end because you always felt better with them in traffic. To me, DJ is that, like, I. I love that guy. And I know that, you know, he's dropped it, and I know that he hasn't had the season that maybe we expected, but there's just something about that dude. When I watch him and think in a big moment, like, I want the ball in his hand and see if he can do something with it, because he does feel like a glorified running back out there with better speed and just give him the ball and try to have a DB tackle him.
- [44:23]
Matt Abaticola
Yeah, he may not have had the season that we've all wanted or expected, but the last few weeks, when it's counted, yeah, that dude's been there and.
- [44:30]
Tim Jenkins
It'S come through walk offs against the Packers. At some point, you get a statue for that, right?
- [44:34]
Matt Abaticola
Oh, it's being built right now. Don't you worry.
- [44:36]
Dan Bernstein
You know, this is. I think this conversation has really helped me get ready for the next game. I've just been. I've been kind of reveling in the excitement of Saturday night now, and I think. I think this was. This is my sort of transitional conversation to have turning the page. Have me thinking about this, this Rams game now, because there's. There is a lot going on. I guess this is one of these game plans where it's more about what you pair away. It's like he's so many of these guys, you know, that both McVeigh and Johnson, oh, we could do this or we could do this. We could do this. And at some point, your card just can't have this all on there.
- [45:13]
Tim Jenkins
You're dead. I mean, listen, some of the best advice you're ever going to hear as a coach is the best players are the ones that don't make it on the call sheet, right? It's, it's. It's true. Especially coaches tend to do this. I don't care what level it is. It could be me coaching my third graders, right? You overdo it, you know, you're putting in 14 new concepts because of what we can do. And really, you just kind of got to trust your guys at this point in the season. One final thing I'll say, though, and I'm with you, where it was like, the excitement from Saturday is I do my best to just try to cover these guys. I'm not going to act like I haven't grown to love the Chicago Bears, because I do. And I find myself getting happy or sad based on how they do, which is something I got to work on because, like, hey, the Bears win or lose, you know, they're trying to figure out what kind of mood I'm going to be in. But. But what I will say is, how cool is this? I genuinely mean that. I just think it's the coolest thing, the most deserving fan base. And the fact that we're sitting here and it's like, we've got a divisional home playoff game in year one, and I know no matter what, we won't be able to keep perspective, myself included. We won't be able to say, hey, if we lose this weekend, nobody's going to be able to sit there on Monday and say, hey, you know, let's keep perspective. We're all going to be pissed off with that being said. I just think it's awesome. I'm fired up for it, and I think there's something to be said. Man, Cold Soldier Field, this team coming to town, there's a. There's a good chance. You know, I know they're an underdog right now, but I do think there's a good chance the Bears pull it off.
- [46:38]
Matt Abaticola
Love it. Thanks, Tim.
- [46:39]
Tim Jenkins
I'm ready.
- [46:40]
Dan Bernstein
Tim, thanks so much, man. Always appreciate it.
- [46:42]
Matt Abaticola
I will talk to you soon, buddy. Take care.
- [46:45]
Dan Bernstein
That is Tim Jenkins of T. Jenkins Elite. You can follow him. He does all the full breakdowns of every pass that Caleb Williams throws.
- [46:54]
Matt Abaticola
Waggle Country.
- [46:55]
Dan Bernstein
Waggle Country.
- [46:56]
Matt Abaticola
You know, I'm really excited about this for. For this weekend is. And it's happened the last several weeks, what play have they been working on? Whether it was early in the year or the last few weeks, only that Ben Johnson has been saving for this game. Like, what is that one play that we're going to see? Because it's happened, Dan. It's happened. And I. And obviously I'm not asking you to be like, what is that play? Because you just. You have no, no idea. But when it's, when it's, when it's done, when the game's over, we're going to go back and say, all right, there's the plate. Last weekend it was that. That pump screen, you know, and then you go, you hit DJ Long. Something they saw happen to them in the commander's game, week six. And we heard Caleb say they've been working on it the last three or four weeks.
- [47:37]
Dan Bernstein
You know, it's funny, though, because where that sounds like a novelty, it sounds like a luxury. You know what that is? That's NFL football, right?
- [47:46]
Matt Abaticola
It is. And that's what I'm like, what play is it? Yeah, I know.
- [47:49]
Dan Bernstein
But the point being that we're not used to it as following this particular team, that it's never been that way. Where they're in that rarefied air when it comes to having the wherewithal to do it, that this is installed in August, Right?
- [48:06]
Matt Abaticola
No, you're right. And it's just. We're not used to it. And I'm not used to.
- [48:09]
Dan Bernstein
It feels new and different.
- [48:12]
Tim Jenkins
I'm used to.
- [48:12]
Dan Bernstein
It's just football.
- [48:13]
Matt Abaticola
80% of the pass is being behind the line of scrimmage, and hopefully we can run the football. You know, that's what I'm used to. And knowing that this is what NFL coaches do and what NFL offenses do, God. You actually, you. You steal a play that happened to you in a game and then you incorporate it, then work on it week after week after week until the very right moment that it's there. It's just. Yeah, it's. It's. It's a concept we're not used to, and I love it. I love talking to Tim. That's great stuff. And I'm hoping to see a waggle country here in this game.
- [48:43]
Dan Bernstein
All right, good stuff. You got anything else on your list of things you want to do? I don't.
- [48:47]
Tim Jenkins
I mean, I had.
- [48:47]
Matt Abaticola
I had more questions for Tim. I could. I mean, we could have just kept talking. I could talk to Tim for 90 minutes.
- [48:52]
Dan Bernstein
Oh, I have a question.
- [48:53]
Matt Abaticola
Yeah.
- [48:53]
Dan Bernstein
How awesome was that Bears game?
- [48:54]
Matt Abaticola
Oh, my God. Which one?
- [48:56]
Dan Bernstein
Saturday night.
- [48:57]
Matt Abaticola
Okay.
- [48:57]
Dan Bernstein
Wasn't that great? It was great. Okay. That just. I just. Just a question.
- [49:00]
Matt Abaticola
Oh, there was something. I don't know what the publication was, but apparently some Green Bay Packer fans, they want to force somehow Ben Johnson to apologize for his behavior.
- [49:13]
Dan Bernstein
Stop.
- [49:14]
Matt Abaticola
You're making that up. I'm serious.
- [49:17]
Dan Bernstein
They want an apology?
- [49:18]
Matt Abaticola
Yes.
- [49:21]
Dan Bernstein
For what? For swearing at them. For his behavior. For not liking them.
- [49:26]
Matt Abaticola
Yeah. For the way that Ben Johnson treated Matt LaFleur.
- [49:32]
Dan Bernstein
Because the handshake they wanted official. There's a petition asking for an official apology.
- [49:38]
Matt Abaticola
See, where was it?
- [49:39]
Tim Jenkins
Okay. Oh, I don't.
- [49:43]
Matt Abaticola
Cute. Maybe this isn't even real. This spun. I've never heard of it. No.
- [49:47]
Dan Bernstein
It's probably.
- [49:47]
Matt Abaticola
That's story by Andrew Hollerin. NFL fans are calling for Chicago Bears head coach Ben Johnson to apologize for his post game behavior.
- [49:56]
Dan Bernstein
How about new? How about new? Yeah.
- [50:02]
Matt Abaticola
Oh, my God. And the picture in the story going in for the handshake. Look at Johnson.
- [50:07]
Dan Bernstein
Oh, it's the best.
- [50:08]
Matt Abaticola
I know.
- [50:08]
Tim Jenkins
Such a great.
- [50:09]
Matt Abaticola
But that still shot, though. Yeah.
- [50:10]
Dan Bernstein
He's like, oh, let's do it. Here's how about it.
- [50:17]
Matt Abaticola
Oh, and then we talked about Keyshawn Nixon.
- [50:21]
Dan Bernstein
Yes.
- [50:21]
Matt Abaticola
Jumping out of the way of the DeAndre Swift touchdown. And I've reposted it on X. My God. That's a great shot of it, though, too.
- [50:30]
Dan Bernstein
Boink.
- [50:31]
Matt Abaticola
Yeah, boink. It's exactly the sound effect that would go with it. He literally hopped from both feet like a bunny.
- [50:36]
Dan Bernstein
He's like, out of the way.
- [50:37]
Matt Abaticola
Yes, out of the way. We want the Bears. Unless we have to tackle them. We don't want them.
- [50:43]
Dan Bernstein
We want them. We just don't want to have to touch them if we don't want to.
- [50:47]
Matt Abaticola
Never going to do that.
- [50:47]
Dan Bernstein
Damn it.
- [50:48]
Matt Abaticola
Oh, good stuff. All right, Tim Jenkins, are you ready now?
- [50:51]
Dan Bernstein
I'm getting there.
- [50:52]
Matt Abaticola
You ready for the Rams? Ready for another Bears victory? Another Sunday night post game show where we celebrate a Bears win?
- [50:59]
Dan Bernstein
I'm always ready for that. You know that.
- [51:03]
Matt Abaticola
Hey, all we are. We are just one Niners upset away from hosting the NFC championship game. Take care of the Rams name. We'll know on Saturday. We'll know Saturday night.
- [51:16]
Dan Bernstein
Visions of buried into the end zone against the Saints.
- [51:20]
Matt Abaticola
They're the late game Saturday night.
- [51:22]
Dan Bernstein
Cedric Benson.
- [51:23]
Matt Abaticola
Yeah. Bears are no the Saturday night. Yeah. The Niners. Eagles are late game or Niners and Seahawks are late game.
- [51:29]
Dan Bernstein
And you really think the Niners are going to beat them?
- [51:31]
Tim Jenkins
I do.
- [51:32]
Matt Abaticola
That's what I want. I said that two weeks ago. This is how I wanted to play out.
- [51:35]
Dan Bernstein
Okay.
- [51:35]
Matt Abaticola
I think the Niners will go there and win. I really do. And then the Niners have to come to Soldier Field and bear weather.
- [51:43]
Dan Bernstein
Now you're trolling me.
- [51:45]
Matt Abaticola
Now I'm trolling you.
- [51:46]
Tim Jenkins
Yes. All right.
- [51:46]
Matt Abaticola
Because we all believe in bear weather.
- [51:48]
Dan Bernstein
That thanks to Tim Jenkins, that's going to do it. For Forward progress a Chicago Bears podcast, Bernstein and a Batacola on 312 Sports. Forward progress has stopped.
- [52:06]
Tim Jenkins
Forward progress a Chicago Bears podcast with.
- [52:10]
Dan Bernstein
Dan Bernstein and Matt Abeticola on 312 Sports.