How Trauma Built KIND to a $5B Exit | Ep. 398 with Daniel Lubetzky Founder of KIND Snacks

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Podcast: Founder's Story by IBH Media
Episode: How Trauma Built KIND to a $5B Exit | Ep. 398 with Daniel Lubetzky, Founder of KIND Snacks
Date: May 15, 2026
Host: Daniel Rollins (B)
Guest: Daniel Lubetzky (A)

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Episode Overview

In this compelling episode of Founder’s Story, Daniel Lubetzky—founder of KIND Snacks and a notable Shark Tank investor—dives deep into how personal adversity, family history, and a relentless drive for impact fueled his journey from failed ventures to a $5 billion exit. The conversation touches on building a values-driven business, the importance of resilience and product obsession, generational differences in entrepreneurship, and leveraging trauma and fear into constructive energy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Essence of Entrepreneurship & Product Obsession

• Perfect the Product Before Promoting:
  Lubetzky emphasizes the critical importance of perfecting your product before investing in promotion (00:00, 14:59).
  • "If you have a product, 1 out of 10 people like it and you start promoting it, you're actually going to lose money. ... All of us entrepreneurs are eager to run and sometimes you need to slow down before you run." (A, 00:00; 14:59)
  • He shares advice he gave his own son: don’t celebrate virality or marketing unless the product truly resonates with people.
• Obsess Over the Details:
  True success, as with KIND, comes from being “maniacally obsessed” with the product, akin to other successful founders (14:26).

The Power of Early Experiences & Lessons from Failure

• Early Failures Inform Future Success:
  Lubetzky reflects on how a decade of failures—selling sundried tomato spreads and attempting various ventures—made his later KIND journey almost “frictionless” by comparison (10:14, 16:39).
  • "My first 10 years were much tougher than I realized. The next 10 years were almost frictionless." (A, 00:28, 16:39)
• Never a Straight Path:
  The process of finding product-market fit is an iterative, uphill journey of gradual realizations, not instant “unicorn” creation (10:14).

Magic, Performance, & Entrepreneurial Mindset

• The Value of Trying New Things:
  Childhood passions, whether magic or theater, instill confidence, resilience, and adaptability. Lubetzky credits magic with teaching him how to command attention, read social cues, and think outside the box (12:04).
  • "Magic taught me a ton. It teaches you how to look at people's eyes, how people think, how to get their attention." (A, 12:04)

KIND’s Secret Sauce: Product, Timing, Brand, and Culture

• Right Product, Right Time:
  Lubetzky attributes success to finding a true market gap and solving his own need for a wholesome, convenient snack (18:17).
  • "First and foremost the product was the right product at the right time because there was no healthy snacking sector when I came up with Kind." (A, 18:17)
• Culture of Ownership and Transparency:
  KIND’s team culture was as crucial as product innovation. Everyone was an owner; “no hallway politics,” transparency, and a shared mission built high performance and loyalty (18:17).
• Acknowledge Luck:
  "If any entrepreneur starts getting so cocky to think that they're invincible, let them do it twice." (A, 18:17)

Building for Impact, Not Just Profit

• Lubetzky urges founders to create not just the next “me too” item, but to aim for untapped needs—using the “AND” mindset to challenge assumptions ("healthy AND tasty", "wholesome AND convenient", "social impact AND economic sustainability") (21:19).

The Role of Personal & Family Trauma

• A Holocaust Survivor’s Son:
  Growing up as the child of a Holocaust survivor left Lubetzky with profound fears but also a drive to accrue survival skills, connect people, and never take stability for granted (23:23).
  • “Being the child of a Holocaust survivor gives you an existentialist fear that is very, very real. And if you're able to channel those fears to construct the things, you can do a lot of good things with it.” (A, 23:23)
  • His father’s story—escaping Nazi horror, immigrating, and building a life—became a core inspiration.

Generational Change & Sheltering Children

• Maintaining the Fire in Times of Surplus:
  Lubetzky discusses the difficulty for successful parents to instill grit and hunger in their children, given today’s relative abundance and safety compared to previous generations’ struggles (27:50).
  • "How do you keep that fire in the next generation? ... It's very, very, very darn hard." (A, 27:50)

Grit, Vulnerability, and Mental Health

• Dealing with Insecurity, Comparing, and Depression:
  Lubetzky openly discusses his own struggles with insecurity, fears, and even depression in early entrepreneurial years. He describes the necessary discipline to separate self-worth from business performance, and the value of self-forgiveness:
  • “You need to be your own best friend, you need to love yourself ... Remind yourself that you’re amazing… and then go out and try to improve without it invading your self worth.” (A, 33:35–35:46)

Navigating the Modern Tech Landscape

• Best or Worst Time to Start? Both.
  Rollins asks if today’s AI-driven era is the best or most challenging time to be an entrepreneur. Lubetzky asserts that “attitude is destiny”:
  • "Attitude is destiny. ... Take action. Be an actionist." (A, 37:21)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Entrepreneurship & Failure:
  • “90% of first time ventures fail. But if it’s a second round entrepreneur, the success rate goes from 10% to 20%. ... If you go through the third one, it's 30%. ... The more you get off the horse and dust it off … the more chances you have of figuring it out.” (A, 06:37)
• On Kindness in the Modern Age:
  • “The essence of kindness is transgenerational ... But with social media and all this online anonymity, it introduces problems for society ... There’s a big opportunity for all of us to really reengage as humans.” (A, 03:48)
• On Learning from Trauma:
  • “If you’re able to channel those fears to construct the things, you can do a lot of good things with it.” (A, 23:23)
• On Building Culture:
  • “Everybody was an owner, everybody had a stake ... there was no hallway politics. ... We were committed to excellence.” (A, 18:17)
• On Vulnerability and Self Worth:
  • “What’s very important is for you to separate your self worth from your quest to be great ... You need to be forgiving of oneself while questing for excellence.” (A, 33:35)
• On Agency & Being a Builder:
  • "A much better framework for us to teach our children is choose what you're going to be, be a builder rather than destroyer ... recognize our power and our responsibility that comes with that power to do something about it." (A, 28:39)
• On Thinking Big:
  • “When I think about unlimited possibilities, I think about what can I do tomorrow in the world to make this a better world?” (A, 39:40)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Perfecting Your Product: 00:00, 14:59
• Failure & Early Lessons: 10:14, 16:39
• Magic/Mentalism & Business: 12:04–13:33
• Building KIND & Culture: 18:17
• Challenging Conventional Thinking (OR vs. AND): 21:19
• Family Trauma, Holocaust Legacy: 23:23
• Generational Challenges: 27:50
• Mental Health/Vulnerability: 33:35–35:46
• Tech Landscape & Attitude: 37:21
• Unlimited Possibilities—Mindset: 39:40

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Tone & Style

The conversation is candid, introspective, often humorous (“Do you know what tocayo means?” [01:12]), and consistently down-to-earth. Lubetzky’s vulnerability and the host’s relatability create a safe space to discuss both the extreme struggles and triumphs of entrepreneurship.

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Summary Takeaway

Daniel Lubetzky’s story illustrates that the path to greatness isn’t linear, but paved with resilience, self-reflection, and a commitment to bettering the world. Whether grappling with generational trauma or the pitfalls of comparison culture, Lubetzky’s message remains clear: Embrace vulnerability, focus relentlessly on solving real problems, and always, always lead with kindness.

Transcript

[A]

If you have a product, 1 out of 10 people like it and you start promoting it, you're actually going to lose money. Whereas if you improve the product and 5 out of 10 like it, it might be good. And if you further improve it at 9 out of 10 people like it, then at that time you've got a goal and you want to start promoting it. All of us entrepreneurs are eager to run and sometimes you need to slow down before you run. Kaivar is everywhere. Just like my first 10 years were much tougher than I realized, the next 10 years were frictionless. We were growing. Triple dig growth on average, on revenue growth. One of the best trajectories I've ever seen from in any sector of any company.

[B]

What was your secret sauce that created this rocket?

[A]

Daniel, I have an insight to share with you that I haven't shared with anybody else.

[B]

So, Daniel, I was telling my mom today that you were coming on the show and she's like, I love Kind bar. Like I eat Kind bar. And then I was like, mom, be kind and rewind. And she's like, did he make that phrase like, no, Mom. Like it was like on Blockbuster duties. But yeah, but sorry, go ahead.

[A]

Daniel, you can tell that your mom has great taste because she likes kind. But more importantly, she named you Daniel. You are my tocao. Do you know what that means?

[B]

I don't even know what that means. I like the sound of it.

[A]

A tocayo means a namesake. Where you're named Daniel. I'm named Daniel, but it doesn't fully explain it because tocayo for Mexicans, and I think for all Hispanics, the word to cayo is more than just a namesake. It's almost like this spiritual connection where you and I are bonded. Because your name is Daniel. M. Daniel. So now you have to give me a hundred bucks just because. No, I'm just joking. No, but just because your name is

[B]

Daniel, I just zelled it over to you, so it's waiting for you. I like that. Tocano. Tocano?

[A]

No, Takano means your cheap steaks.

[B]

Oh, wow,

[A]

you got. You stumbled into other very interesting word. Takano. Takano means someone that doesn't like. Like a cheaps take is very few.

[B]

I wouldn't be selling the hundred dollars if I was tocano.

[A]

I know you're not a takano. You're my to call you.

[B]

Wow, I'm. No one has ever said that to me, Daniel. I do.

[A]

There is.

[B]

You know, the funny thing is I did look up people that have the my exact name and I Connected them on social media.

[A]

Because Daniel Rollins. The whole thing.

[B]

The whole thing. I thought it'd be funny. Like, if there's like a bunch of us and I just send them messages like, hey, hey, Daniel Robbins. And they're just. I think they're like, weird.

[A]

They're freaked out. They're like, what is this guy? I want. You know what's sad about that is, like, in society, not all of us are scared. Like, I go on airplanes still today and hand out kind. And a lot of people are like, this guy must be a serial killer. Like, what? Who is this weirdo? Because people are understandably protective. And with all social media, it's. So I would enter your Daniel Rollins chat. I would change. That would be fun.

[B]

You know what? Why don't we just do Daniels? I did see there was a group that does, like Chris's or something. Like, it's like everyone with the first name. I think we should do a Daniels meetup. So it's like anyone with the name Daniel, because that could be. You know, the funny thing is when I used to work in an area where it was majority Hispanic people, and

[A]

they used to love that.

[B]

They thought I was. Yeah, they'd be like, oh, you speak Spanish. So I. Eventually I had to just learn span. Like I learned.

[A]

You learned to call.

[B]

Now I know more, but I'm rusty. I haven't used. This is like 20 some odd years ago since you look back. I mean, kind was so long ago. Do you.

[A]

Was just yesterday.

[B]

I mean, when you started kind, it was. It was a bit ago. It was a bit. A couple days ago. And do you think that kindness has changed since then? When you started this and you said, I'm going to name my brand kind, do you think kindness has changed?

[A]

Well, that's a great question. I think the essence of kindness is transgenerational. And I think the essence of every human being and what we have inside and how we can connect and look at each other's eyes and it's discovered each other's warmth has gone through history and will continue tomorrow. I do think that with the advent of social media and all this online anonymity, it introduces problems for society that we have not yet learned how to conquer. A lot of kids on their devices. I was talking to a principal. I went for the first time in 40 years to my high school, and the principal told me that a lot of the kids have problems. They don't look at each other's eyes. They're just looking at their devices. Just that skill is Very important, let alone to use those eyes to connect with each other's soul. And I do think there's a big opportunity for all of us to really re engage as humans. But I think the essence is still there.

[B]

How is it when you think of when you're on Shark Tank and somebody comes on, do you, do you think about this when they try to make that like eye to eye connection with you versus like, is it like in the first few seconds when somebody walks out there before they even release. Get going. Is there like a connection that has been like a human to human connection?

[A]

It depends on the entrepreneur. I very much, very consciously want to make that connection because it takes so much guts to walk down that aisle, be prepared to be grilled by five people. And so I do ask tough questions. But I start by trying to connect with them and let put them at ease. And all sharks do that. Certainly Lori does that, Kevin, I think even Kevin. But I want them to feel comfortable because they're in for some tough questions. So at the very beginning you let them do their pitch without interruption. And when they finish the pitch, then you unleash what I call the Mexican Inquisition with a lot of questions. But yes, I do try to connect with them. And there was just on the finale that just happened. Do you call it finale when the final episode, the season finale, I think it's called. There was a moment where a woman was really, she started shedding some tears and it really hit me and I stood up to give her my handkerchief because I, I just felt for her. And even though I didn't think that her specific business idea was going to be investable or succeed a lot, I really admire her courage to try things out. Because the thing about entrepreneurs is it takes so much courage, Daniel, to just try it out. You already won by trying it out. In my opinion. I really firmly believe that, that somebody has the guts to. They have something in their heart, they believe it and they take the initiative to actually bring it about. That's incredible. That's worthy of respect. And most entrepreneurs in the first venture fail. It's only in the second or third venture that you start having an increased chance. 90% of first time ventures fail. But if it's a second round entrepreneur, the success rate goes from 10% to 20%. That's still 80% failure, but that's double the chances that you're going to win. And if you go through the third one, it's 30%. This is the data. You tripled your chances. So the more you try and get off the saddle from the horse and dust it off. I buy the Renee. I mangle all of my expressions because I was born in Mexico. So I hope I'm not mangling these ones. But the more that you get off the horse and dust it off and get so I get back on the horse, I think the more, the more chances that you have of figuring it out. And of course you don't want to fail, but you want to be comfortable trying things out and learning from them so you can get stronger.

[B]

Don't worry, I wrangle expressions all the time. I just keep on going. So when you first sat down in that chair, on that chair, couch, whatever, I don't know what you. It's like a couch chair and you realize like, wow, I'm, I'm on Shark Tank. I'm a shark. But all the things that had to get there to that moment. Did it hit you?

[A]

Yes, in, in, in many ways. First of all, I love Shark Tank. I had discovered it and I enjoyed watching and sharing with my kids. So when I was invited to be on it, I was super excited, super honored and energized. I have severe adhd. So even right now when you are talking, there's a billion ideas going through my mind. How do I respond? Where do I go? Like they're all the ideas are fighting with each other. It's my turn. No. And they're speaking Spanish, Hebrew, English, Japanese. There's like a lot going on in here. So for me, I need to try to stay focused and to not get the other thing that happens on Shark Tank. And so yes, it's bringing back all of my memories. You were talking earlier about kind's been so long. My relationship of who I am is very connected to my early years. My Peace works usually 10 years before I launched kind where I made a lot of mistakes, but they taught me a lot and helped me become who I became. And the early years of KIND are very, very present in my life and in my mind. And a lot of times when I'm in Shark Tank, on Shark Tank, I'm channeling a lot of those lessons because it's those early lessons that matter a ton. Of of course I grew the company to billions of dollars. And I also have many lessons from that entire journey because I was a one person operation and I became a stayed a CEO all the way till I built a 5, 7 billion dollars company. But the lessons to grow from 1 billion to 5 billion are not as applicable on the Tank. They're less the early Lessons are ridiculously applicable. So I connect to those a little bit more.

[B]

I've had so many failures, so I think I'm on like, I was on like failure eight, so I had an 80% chance of success. When you look back to Kind, where was the moment where you were like, this is a rocket ship. This is destined to be a unicorn?

[A]

I never thought about the word unicorn, but the way that I relate to Daniel is you're going up little hills and then as you go those hills or those mountains, then you can look higher. So I thought Kind could become a $10 million company. I thought we had that potential. I remember 10 years before PeaceWorks, I leave my legal career as a Wall street lawyer. Or not really Wall street, but I got a law career and I have the potential to do so many things. And I decide to start selling sundried tomato spreads made by Israelis, Palestinians, Jordanians, Egyptians and Turks, trading with one another with the aptly branded name Moshe Pupik and Ali Mishmunkin's world famous all natural Gourmet Foods. I still don't know why it didn't work out, but I'm peddling those products literally door by door, letting people force feeding the buyers to try my sundry turmeric spread with. With one day old baguettes. And I draw so many lessons from that, from that journey. And now when I'm building Kind, I have a lot of that perspective of learning from a lot of those experiences.

[B]

I heard that you love magic. I love magic.

[A]

You love magic.

[B]

I love magic too. Do you think that translated like these things? Because I remember when I love magic. But I also love doing monologues. And I feel like my monologues, when I was like a kid, I would just act in these stupid monologues. I became doing monologues for sales in like an enterprise level later on in my life. Do you feel like magic for you was like that thing that it really translated into the business environment?

[A]

Without any doubt. And Daniel, I have an insight to share with you that I haven't shared with anybody else. Yes, magic taught me a ton. And I teaches you how to look at people's eyes, how people think, how to get their attention, to command the presence. And what is fascinating to me is that those early experiences really turn into who you become. The common thread with everybody is that those early moments when you were writing your monologues made you into who you became. But what's interesting is it actually matters less what that is. Whether it was my magic or your, it just matters that you try things out, that you push yourself, that you get those reps in. And whether you're in the basketball court or whether you're whatever your passion is, try things out, go for it, go for it, go for it. Those things are teaching you far more than you realize. And you will see the world through that prism. So it really does matter. But those early formative influences stay with you and give you a sense of the world and of your skills. And so it's. What's important is that whoever's watching your thing just try shit out. Just give it a shot, just try it out.

[B]

I love that. And I'm, I'm like obsessed with mentalists because I don't get like, I can't understand how they do it. Daniel. I'm like, I don't get it. Like they. It's so mind blowing to me. I think I've heard that you're like a mentalist too.

[A]

When we had a closing dinner, we sold a controlling steak. I only sold kind fully my final shares a year ago, a year and a half ago, less than that. But. But when I sold the first steak, we had a closing dinner where the bankers and the lawyers invite us for dinner to celebrate the transaction. And I held the dinner where I did a 30 minute mentalism show. And Byron Trott, who's a very good friend of mine, who was our banker, freaked out. He was convinced that I actually got into his brain. And he was like, how the hell. Now I understand why he was such a good negotiator. Because he was inside my brain. He got so freaking. I'm like Byron, chill. But now every year at his annual conference, he brings a mentalist to because it is, it's fun, it's, it's interesting.

[B]

I love that. I know that you're obsessed with the product. And we had other founders on, like the founder of Predomanger and he said the same thing, that he was obsessed, maniacally obsessed with the product. So I, I could tell that you're obsessed with the product. I do you feel though that nowadays people's obsession is, is more about virality than the actual product? Because I hear this a lot. Like I'm obsessed with the marketing and I make like a basic product to see.

[A]

I think it depends, it depends on who you're talking to and whether they know what they're doing. Because I was talking to my son who's starting his own business and you don't want to start promoting your product and distributing till you've perfected that mousetrap. All of us entrepreneurs are eager to run and sometimes you need to slow down before you run. Like you need to just really figure out the product. Because think about it, Daniel, if you have a product and 1 out of 10 people like it and you start promoting it, you're actually going to lose money. Whereas if you improve the product and 5 out of 10 like it, it might be good. And if you further improve it and nine out of 10 people like it, then at that time you've got to goal, then you want to start promoting it then. So focusing on virality instead of focusing on perfecting the product is a sure way to lose. Unless virality is your product. And then of course, but, but in most cases you have a product or service that you need to really, really improve before you try to promote it.

[B]

You said in the beginning about the failure rate is so high, like 90% failure rate on the first time. And. And it slightly goes up from there. And I'm not sure if everyone is cut out for the grit that is needed, like you said, to be knocking down doors and doing every. Anything that was possible. What moment during Kind for you was that moment where you were like, this is it. I'm done with this company where I

[A]

thought I was giving up and not, not trying?

[B]

Yeah, it was just like everything was collapsing or something happened where you're just like this. I'm like, I'm, I'm gonna go.

[A]

I kind did not have that. My 10 years before I had that where I kept with Moshe Poopic world famous all natural with my foods. I'm making that my mistake. And thousands of mistakes and thousands of things I tried like every time like, oh my God. I also tried this. When I'm on shocked, I'm like, oh my God. I remember. I also tried this skincare product and also tried to be a consultant on Middle east trade. And I also. There's so many things I tried that didn't work out. And during the peace usually was two steps forward, two steps back. But I learned those lessons and by, by the time we launched Kind, we almost didn't try. We almost gave up because I was exhausted. And we had one big setback and we almost closed the shop. I'm not making this up. We had a meeting with six people where we said, do we try this one last time? But once we tried, just took off and kind just grew. Just like my first 10 years were much tougher than I realized. The next 10 years were almost like frictionless. We were growing at triple digit growth on average, on revenue growth, cash flow, possibly unprofitably. We were a juggernaut. It's one of the best trajectories I've ever seen in any sector of any company. And we just benefited from all of those mistakes. So once Kind launched, it was more like, hold onto your seats. And we made mistakes and we learned lessons and they were difficult, but there's no quitting. Why would you quit? That thing is like growing and growing and growing.

[B]

What was the secret sauce? What was your secret sauce, do you think that created this rocket?

[A]

Well, first of all, Lock is very important. If any entrepreneur starts getting so cocky to think that they're invincible, let them do it twice. Because if it's hard to do it once, the amount of people have in starting the Novo from scratch and done more than two highly successful businesses in different sectors, very hard to accomplish. It's very, very hard. So there's an element of good fortune that we need to acknowledge. I think first and foremost the product was the right product at the right time because there was no healthy snacking sector when I came up with Kind. And I was looking for something that would solve a problem that I had, which is, was I was walking around the streets of Manhattan and traveling all over the world selling my earlier products, my Peace Ropes products. And I was looking for a healthy snack that I could feel good about that was wholesome and convenient. So Kind was the right product. You just saw it and you telegraphed and you tried it and it was both delicious and healthful. So the product was amazing. I think the brand really, really capture something very special. And the culture that we created, the more that I look back and my team members look back, the more realize we create an incredible culture. Everybody was an owner, everybody had a stake, everybody was, we had a lot of transparency. We're a high performing culture where there was no hallway politics. There was, everybody was focused on together pursuing the mission and we worked towards each other, we had each other's back, we had a lot of fun, we worked really hard, we were committed to excellence. And I mean, it's just an incredible team that we brought together to do that.

[B]

Man, you are a pioneer. I was just at Expo west recently, which is, you know, all, all the CPG brands. And I asked so many people what problem are they solving? And they all told me that they're creating a bar that, that solved the exact problem that you solved. You know, a bit ago, you, I think you, you, you talked about creating this whole industry. It's, it's Incredible. Do you think though that like is it, do you think it'd be hard to replicate that now just based on the massive amount of competition that's going into cpg?

[A]

Well, you'd need to do something else because trying to do what others did is a recipe to just be a me to a best mediocrity. You have to rethink the world and say what doesn't exist? What's a problem that hasn't been solved? So we've kind of already solved that problem by definition and since kind to your point, there's so many other healthy snacks with all their different functions. So if I was trying to launch a new product in that space, I would try to identify what truly doesn't exist, that, that the consumer really needs. It's very hard, it's very hard to identify what doesn't exist, let alone that people actually want. Because sometimes you come up with something doesn't exist but nobody wants it. So you need to really make only

[B]

we want it, but nobody else wants it.

[A]

Yeah. So you have to figure that out. You have to, you have to think outside the box and, and, and really will yourself into coming of something, something new. You know, AI is amazing, but if you ask it to design a product for you, it's just going to look at everything combo pattern. What's amazing about our brains is our ability to think outside the box and go boundlessly and that's what we need to train ourselves to do. That's what I want to train my kids to do. That's where the real value comes to think about something that hasn't existed. And that means challenging conventional wisdoms, isolating what are the assumptions that lead me to think that you can't do it differently. Very oftentimes people think with or it needs to be this or that. Identify an assumption that proves to be a false assumption where people think it has to be this or that and introduce and into your mind. Okay, this is a problem I'm looking for. This is how it is right now. What is the OR underlying it? And the OR says oh, it has to be this or that. Can I think with and can I introduce a way to make it healthy and tasty by using nutritionally dense ingredients? Can I make it wholesome and convenient, socially impactful and economically sustainable? What is your and and how do you tackle the how do you creatively think and start thinking what is the and? How do I do it with the and. And it might take you days, weeks, months or years, but if you unlock how to Go from or to and and come up with a product or service that people want that does things better. That's where the real opportunity lies.

[B]

So I know that you grew up in Mexico City. You're the son of a Holocaust survivor who only had a third grade education, as far as I've heard. Do you think this made you destined to succeed or did it create a fear that you might fail?

[A]

Amazing question, Daniel. I think first of all, watching my dad definitely taught me so much about entrepreneurship without me realizing it. Like, I wasn't all let me become an entrepreneur. I just observing him and I learned a lot from him, a lot through osmosis, maybe through epigenetics. I don't know. Being the child of a Holocaust survivor gives you an existentialist fear that is very, very real. And if you're able to channel those fears to construct the things, you can do a lot of good things with it. So I couldn't put myself to sleep when I was 12 years old. My dad started talking to me about what he went through when I was 9. And by 12, I was fearful about what he went through and about it happening again. And initially to questions about magic. I started dreaming that I was going to be a magician with actual magical powers to force people to get along. That was how I, that's where I dreamt and part of why I love magic. I imagined a world where magic was going to help me bring people together. But then eventually entrepreneurship became my tool. But more broadly, as a child of a Holocaust survivor, I wanted to develop skills so that in the case of a war, in the case of a difficult circumstance, I would be not expendable, they wouldn't kill me because only 1% of people my dad's age survived the Holocaust. You know, he was taken from, to a DAHA concentration camp. And my grandfather lied about my dad's age. And he said even though he was 12 and a half, he said he was 15 and a half, so they would let him work in the labor camp rather than kill him. Most they didn't have use for weak kids and they just killed them. And so I learned languages and magic and entrepreneurship and all sorts of skills that reconnecting the dots, I think was partly a survival instinct. I also enjoy it. I enjoy people, I enjoy languages, I enjoy magic. But I think there was something there also connected to my quest to survive. So in that sense, I think it helped me. I don't think anybody's asked me that question that way, Daniel. So I was thinking through it with you.

[B]

I Mean, that's. I mean, what an. What an incredible experience for you to share something that was obviously the worst possible situation any human could go through. But for you to be able to learn from something, and then I can tell that. I can tell not only are you kind, but your love for people. I think you and I have a lot in common. You and I, we do have a lot in common. I feel like I. I feel like I'm the same way. Like. Like learning about people and cultures and travel and the love for people talk. I'm curious about AI, though.

[A]

Before you go, I just need to say, compared to my dad, it's nothing. Because Daniel, he went through the Holocaust. I only heard about it. He went through it. He was treated with so much darkness for his formative years, from 9 years of age till 17. Well, he was liberated by American soldiers when he was 15 and a half, and then he was in a hospital in a refugee camp. And then he came to Mexico with nothing. And he built himself from nothing into a very successful entrepreneur, educated himself, spoke nine languages and lived his life with kindness in spite of what he went through. So I, you know, he's a bit. He's the inspiration for me. But let's go to AI.

[B]

Well, no, let's. Okay. Before we go to AI, do you think that generations of entrepreneurs are built differently because of the thing. It's. It's way different, right? What people have to go through now than, like, what you're saying, like, people that had to go through things then are probably going to be different than what generations have to go through now. And I would have to say having children in their late teens to early 20s, you know, we've done everything to give them a great life and shelter them away from the things that, let's say I had to go through, or you, or obviously your father had to go through. So do you think that their desire for entrepreneurship and their desire for even, like. Like what is a job to them or what is making money to them, they. Do you think it's very different.

[A]

So, first of all, societally, you go through different ages, and it is fascinating how architecture and entrepreneurship and medicine and all of these things are interconnected because of the atmosphere of what's going on. Right? So you look at the Renaissance, you look at today, you look at this. The culture really does inform and give shape to so much more than we realize. So that. That's beyond my pay grade or yours. Like, there's only so much we can do. But we as parents, when we succeed, you use the word shelter. We have the instinct to protect our children and to just give them everything. And the hard thing to do is to preserve in them the fire. For them to want to take initiative, to create a sense of scarcity, so, so that they have to make choices, to create a challenge for them to want to fight for something, for them to understand the meaning that comes from the creative process, the meaning that comes from doing your own thing. And it's very, very, very darn hard. It really is more likely that we will fail at it, that we'll succeed. And in a culture of surplus, whether it's the British Kingdom or the United States today, when you have so much surplus, particularly for those that succeed, how do you keep that fire in the next generation? For them to fight, to take society to a higher level, to a higher level. And the higher level doesn't just mean making more money, but bringing more kindness, bringing more light, bringing more being a builder that builds together a better world for all of us. How do you get people the incentive to want to be part of, of being an actor and a protagonist? Because in Today's generation, for 20 plus years, our kids have been told that they have to be victims, that they have to be oppressors, that they have to be this rigid frameworks. And those frameworks are horrible. Because if you're a victim, you cannot be a protagonist in your own life. You're just going to live like a victim and think about that mentality, how dangerous it is to train people to think of themselves as victims. So stupid. Or you're an oppressor no matter what you do, you were born this, that or that, and now you're an oppressor. Just terrible framework. A much better framework for us to teach our children is choose what you're going to be, be a builder rather than destroyer. A builder wakes up in the morning, thinks, how can I build together? How can I unite society? How can I bring light to the world? How can I elevate and build something that's good rather than a destroyer that spends the time dividing, demolishing and diminishing one another and denying the humanity of the other side. So unfortunately, I had to use four Ds to divide like the D from the Daniel. But we want to teach our kids that they have a choice to be protagonists, to bring good to their own lives and to the world. And a lot of times in society we're being programmed and trained to think that we have no agency and that the problems are bigger than we think. But from What I found, and if you look at the different things I've done, it's not just entrepreneurship. I helped build a movement of Israelis and Palestinians to propel politicians to resolve the conflict. Being part of the builders movement, we have far more agency and power than we realize. We just need to decide that we're going to recognize our power and our responsibility that comes to the with that power to do something about it.

[B]

What scares you a lot.

[A]

A lot. I have nightmares regularly. I'm a very positive actor, but my brain worries a lot, presumably because of what happened to my dad, but also perhaps because I'm a confused Mexican Jew. And I just am worried about everything. I worry about everything. And so what I do is I channel that to do something good about it. So division scares me. Dehumanization scares me. All the forces contributing to toxic polarization, to suspecting that the other side is evil and to be trained that you're right and they're wrong. So what I'm doing through the builders movement is trying to help people understand how to think with more nuance and to understand that if you want to be a builder, whether you want to build kind bars or a better world, you need to approach the world with four Cs. Curiosity, compassion, creativity, and courage. If you approach the world with those four Cs, you can build kind, you can build bridges, you can build schools, you can build a better community by having the curiosity to think. I don't have all the answers. Let me learn about the other side. Let me learn. And then start working towards solving the problems. Having the compassion to understand that the other side is also human and trying to put yourself in the other shoes so you can negotiate and solve problems. Having the creativity to think outside the box and come up with new ideas, think with and. And having the courage to just go and do it.

[B]

Yeah, when I think about what you're saying. So when I was a young teenager, I was diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder. And part of that is I can't shut the thoughts off in my head. Same thing like you said, there's so many thoughts and a lot of it is tied around fears. And obviously I've spent, you know, 30 some odd years bettering myself and getting over things and not having labels and such. But sometimes I can't help it. I. Entrepreneurship has. I'd say it was hard for me because when things get kind of chaotic, I start to fall backwards. But luckily my wife always talks me off the ledge and she always is there for me to Tell me like there's nothing to fear. So I'm really enjoying what you're saying though.

[A]

And I think I want to give, I want to. I really love what you said and the fact that you're comfortable being vulner all of your listeners, I want them to understand every human being goes through the variation of that. Every human being feels vulnerable, every human being gets hurt. For me, it happens on a daily basis where I feel insecure about something, where I feel like I failed at something, that maybe I tried too hard and I hustled too much or I didn't hustle enough or I offended somebody or I did something. And it's okay to be introspective and process and grow from it. But what's very important is for you to separate your self worth from your quest to be great. Because a lot of us don't separate those. A lot of us in our quest to be perfect, in a quest to do something, it impacts our personal self worth and makes us insecure, makes us feel bad about ourselves. It's really, really important that you separate it. It's very hard. It took me years to do it because very oftentimes when I was failing, I was blaming myself, when I should be encouraging myself and be proud of myself that I'm trying. And so it's really, really important for everybody trying things out to be forgiving of oneself while questing for excellence. It's a very hard thing to balance. You need to challenge yourself, but separate it from your personal self will. Remind yourself that you're amazing. Remind yourself that you can be proud of, of the fact that you're fighting a fight and you're doing something that 99% of people don't try. Remind yourself that you're a good person, a good human being, and that is enough. That is enough. And then go out and try to improve without it invading your self worth. It's very hard to achieve, but it's key for every entrepreneur to have that conversation with self and to master it. Otherwise you consume yourself and you can do harm to yourself. And I had moments of depression, Daniel, when in my early years I would lose an account or I would lose a team member. And I was back to square one. And I couldn't get out of bed. I literally couldn't get out of bed. And you need to learn to master that.

[B]

What helped you master it?

[A]

What I just told you to learn to not preach your quest to be great, but to separate it from your personal love towards yourself. You need to be your own Best friend, you need to love yourself and have self doubt about how to improve yourself. And it's a very tricky balance.

[B]

Yeah, I think social, it's hard with social media, right? Like it's. I think that the comparison thing is so hard. That's what I fear of social media around like it's so hard not to compare. Like my friend is so much more successful than I am or like and

[A]

everybody's performative, everybody's trying to.

[B]

Exactly. Everyone's life is so great and my life is so terrible and it's not real.

[A]

There's not one single couple that I've ever met that it's perfect. But you go out to dinner with them, everything seems fine, they go home and they have fights. So you need to understand life is not social media and be more, keep things in perspective.

[B]

So let's talk about technology and I have one final question for you. But is it the best time to be an entrepreneur because you can build a business as a one human being? Right now I just started getting into AI agents and there's so many things right now that you can do to propel yourself with the use of technology. Or is it the most challenging because everyone now has almost full access to a lot of these tools because many of them cost like almost nothing.

[A]

Amazing question. It's both. It's the best of times, it's the worst of times and it will always be. It's your choice. How do you think about it? How do you approach it, what attitude you have? I say attitude is destiny. Think about it. Attitude is destiny. If you are going to be a protagonist, if you are going to think how do I turn from the darkness that my father had into something positive, then the world's your oyster. If you are going to always blame yourself and by the way, there's going to be horrible things that happen to you. But attitude is destinies. What you do with it and how do you approach it and ask critical questions. Because all of those AI tools are there and I'm seeing my son create some amazing things. I'm like wow. But to your point, well, those tools are available to all of us. So you need to be more creative. It's the four Cs. Be more creative, more compassionate so you understand what other people need. More curious and just courageous to try it out. Initiative, initiative, being an actionist, trying things out. Don't be an optimist or a pessimist that just paralyzed thinking. Take action. Be an actionist.

[B]

It's sometimes it's easy to become Paralyzed in the thoughts. Final question is this. My wife and I wrote a book called Unlimited Possibilities. And it was basically breaking through barriers that you didn't think was possible. When I say the phrase unlimited possibility, what would that mean to you when you think back in your life and the barriers that you broke down?

[A]

You know, it's very interesting because the way my brain works when I look back, it's predominantly to reflect about about all the lessons that I learned. And when I look forward is to think about the problems that I've yet to solve. So for me, when I think about your title, is it because I have in my book, I talk about thinking boundlessly, which is similar to what you wrote. But when I think about what remind me the frame that you're.

[B]

Unlimited possibilities.

[A]

Unlimited possibilities. I love that I think about what can I do tomorrow in the world to make this a better world? How can I make this a better world? We, as far as we know, we're only here once. How can we leave the world better than we found it? And ideally through the private sector, because the private sector is amazing. It like helps you scale in a sustainable way. I have a lot of NGOs, a lot of nonprofits, social enterprises that try to do good. I love, I think they're necessary. But the best models where you can create a product or service that people are willing to pay for because then you can scale sustainably and so find what is the problem you want to solve tomorrow. And for me, they have a lot to do. Lack of trust in the system, hate. Those are things that there is opportunities waiting to overcome them. Because nobody wants what social media is causing today. All the algorithms are making us worse. So how can we rejig the algorithm and create a community that creates more trust and more kindness and more respect? And where you have a highly respectful debate, you don't stay away from the debate, but you do it in a way where you some positive intent. I think there's huge opportunities in that sector.

[B]

Well, you're solving the biggest problem, making the world a better place. Like there is no more problem bigger than making the world.

[A]

But every one of your viewers and listeners is doing and can do the same every single day by just how we show up every day and how we look at each other's eyes and how we treat each other with respect. You can literally change the world every single day, every single moment in how you act towards one another. So it's a comment upon all of us and I very happy to have connected with you, Daniel. Look forward to get to know you, visit you one day. I don't know if this is on the record of the record that you have. You're in the Philippines, in one of your hotels.

[B]

You can come to the Philippines. It'll be an amazing experience. You'll have a great time. You know, there used to be a really strong connection between the Philippines and Mexico. Of course, Spain had the root that they connected and they would bring people back and forth.

[A]

Yeah, Philippines is a fascinating country because they have both the Asian and Hispanic influence. And so it's. It's just a fascinating people. Like, I love Philippines. You know, I know a few words in Tagalog, but the. The people of the Philippines, they, to me, they're a real big part of the solution. They're builders. They just, you know, the amount of people that are in, service professionals from the Philippines that are providing health care for the elderly, that are nurses, that are TSA work, like, it's just incredible how giving a loving that community is. I, I very. I. I love the. The Filipino community, but I've never been there. I hope to visit one day.

[B]

One day in the luxury of the

[A]

Dan Rollins of Total Empire.

[B]

I've never been to Mexico City. I've been to Mexico many times, but I'm like, I need to go to Mexico City one time, but I can't wait. Daniel. I mean, I've eaten so many kind bars in my life. You know, sometimes I have to say this. Before we got on this call, I. I couldn't help to think to myself, I'm like, why does Daniel want to talk to me? Sometimes I get this feeling, like, when I talk to people, I'm like, why the heck. Why is I'm eating this kind bar? 20 years ago, I never would have thought I'd be talking to Daniel today. And I always think that. Sometimes I'm like, why? I always think that. Sometimes I always think that.

[A]

Are you saying Daniel already achieved a lot? Why would he need to talk to anybody else?

[B]

Exit. Yeah, like, there's two answers.

[A]

There's two answers. I like talking, but more important, I really am still doing my very best to try to have an impact. I, like, I hope that I'll be 120, and I'll be hustling to try to have an impact. I think for me, that's. That gives me meaning.

[B]

I know. I love it. I appreciate you. We had a great conversation, Daniel. I mean, two Daniels together. I. I really, really am honored that you're here, and this conversation was amazing. So thank you for joining us today.

[A]

Thank you, Daniel. Nice to talk to you.