Podcast Summary

Podcast: Founder's Story
Host: IBH Media
Episode: The Outsourcing Trap: Why Most Founders Do It Wrong (Until It Nearly Breaks Them) – Ep 287 with Nicolas Bivero, CEO & Co-Founder of Penbrothers
Date: December 4, 2025

Episode Overview

This insightful episode of "Founder's Story" explores the realities, misconceptions, and best practices of outsourcing and offshoring with Nicolas Bivero, the CEO and co-founder of Penbrothers—a fast-growing outsourcing partner based in the Philippines. The discussion delves into why many founders struggle with outsourcing, the pitfalls of treating offshore hires as mere "warm bodies," and how global talent, especially from the Philippines, can transform both organizations and individual lives. Bivero also shares his personal journey, leadership philosophies, and practical advice for entrepreneurs seeking to scale through global teams.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Evolution and Impact of Outsourcing

• Outsourcing Has Changed the Game

  • Companies used to equate size and success with big in-house teams; now, billion-dollar companies can exist with tiny core teams and strategic outsourcing. (01:45)
  • “You can still build those teams, but you build them across the globe, you know, and that allows you to find better talent, fill positions … with the right skill set or work in the right time zone.” — Nicolas Bivero (03:30)

• How Remote Work Opened Global Talent Pools

  • COVID accelerated remote team building—now it’s about finding the best person for the job, regardless of geography, time zone, or cost. (02:28–04:00)

Common Outsourcing Mistakes

• The “Warm Body” Trap
  • Many fail at outsourcing because they view remote staff as simple headcount, not as specialized talent solving specific problems. (04:14–05:30)
  • “If it’s just a warm body, but you don’t really know what to do with that body … it doesn’t work or it gets frustrating very quickly.” — Nicolas Bivero (04:28)
  • Success starts with deeply understanding the role and desired outcomes before hiring.

Cultural & Organizational Fit

• Why Culture Matters as Much as Skills

  • Ensuring success means matching not just technical skills but also values and cultural fit—especially when bridging continents and time zones.
  • “You need to help bridge that gap … get a better understanding of certain cultural idiosyncrasies, ways how Filipinos work, how Filipinos communicate, and vice versa.” — Nicolas Bivero (06:17)

• The “Hypercare” Approach

  • Penbrothers invests heavily in pre-hire alignment and ongoing support for both clients and talent, focusing on culture and communication to avoid mismatches. (05:52–07:57)

HR Leadership & People Management

• Right Role vs. Wrong Person

  • Hosts and Bivero discuss the importance of distinguishing between general misfit and wrong-role placement—a familiar flaw in corporate HR.
  • “Is this person not doing the job because they’re not a good employee, or not a right fit for the company, or is it that they’re not a right fit for the role?” — Host (08:30)
  • No one-size-fits-all: leaders sometimes must experiment with role adjustments, other times they must make tough calls quickly. (09:08–10:15)

• Hire Slow, Fire Fast?

  • The old startup adage is debated, with recognition that these HR dilemmas rarely have tidy solutions. (10:15)

Nicolas’ Personal Journey & The Human Impact

• From Germany and South America to the Philippines

  • Bivero's cross-continental experiences (Japan, Southeast Asia, the Philippines) led to deep respect for Filipino talent—and inspired his business mission. (10:57–16:04)

• Changing Lives Through Remote Work

  • Penbrothers creates high-quality jobs for Filipinos—including those outside major cities—preventing the hardship of overseas migration and improving entire families’ lives. (16:25–18:02)
  • “Success … is really seeing how we can not just build teams for our clients, but really create super interesting jobs for Filipinos without them actually having to leave the Philippines or having to leave the countryside.” — Nicolas Bivero (16:42)

Lessons in Scaling and Operations

• Scalability Challenges

  • Early years: lack of coworking spaces and expensively scaling office infrastructure slowed growth. Now, remote work brings new challenges: maintaining community, culture, and effective management over distance. (18:39–20:14)
  • The nature of scaling issues evolves—what slows you down changes as you grow.

• Local Realities Matter

  • Building teams in the Philippines or similar markets means understanding nuances like spotty power/internet, typhoons, regional infrastructure gaps—something outsiders often miss. (20:14–21:19)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Importance of Task Clarity:
  “First, really understand what are the tasks that you really want to get done … so that you are able to set that person up for success instead of just a warm body.”
  — Nicolas Bivero (21:21)

• On Needing Local Partners:
  “Find a good local partner because it’s not easy … all of those [local] things can be overcome much easier and smoother when you have somebody who can help you locally.”
  — Nicolas Bivero (21:49)

• On Making a Lasting Difference:
  “It’s amazing how not a huge amount of money can completely not only change one person’s life, but their entire family … it could change a whole generation.”
  — Host (22:31)

Advice for Founders Considering Outsourcing (21:19)

1. Get Clear About the Role & Outcomes:
   Don’t just hire to fill space—design the role, list success metrics, and define the real business problem the hire is meant to solve.
2. Find a Trusted Local Partner:
   Local expertise (culture, infrastructure, hiring) is critical—don’t expect to succeed by hiring blind through online listings alone.

Key Segment Timestamps

• [01:45] — Host introduces the topic: “Outsourcing completely changed my company…”
• [02:28–04:00] — Bivero: Outsourcing evolution & accessing global talent
• [04:14–05:30] — “Warm body” problem and why most outsourcing fails
• [05:52–07:57] — Ensuring fit after hiring & cultural integration (“hypercare”)
• [08:30–10:15] — Discussion on HR dilemmas: wrong fit vs. wrong role
• [10:57–16:04] — Bivero’s backstory and connection to Filipino talent
• [16:25–18:02] — The real “success” of Penbrothers: transforming Filipino lives
• [18:39–21:19] — Scaling pains and remote management challenges
• [21:19–22:31] — Bivero’s top two outsourcing tips for founders

Episode Tone

The conversation is candid, practical, and empathetic, with both host and guest displaying deep respect for the human side of entrepreneurship and offshore work. Bivero’s tone is measured, humble, and pragmatic, emphasizing the importance of cultural intelligence and purpose-driven leadership.

Takeaways for Listeners

• Outsourcing isn’t about cheap labor or headcount—it’s about strategic talent alignment across borders.
• Success hinges on clarity, culture fit, and strong local partnerships.
• When done right, global teams can unlock opportunity not just for companies, but for communities and entire generations.
• Prepare for the unexpected—especially local quirks and infrastructure realities—in any operational region.