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Founder's Story
The Truth About Founder Wealth | Ep 302 with Julian Metcalfe Founder of Pret a Manger and itsu
00:27:37
Daniel Robbins sits down with food industry icon and serial founder Julian Metcalfe to unpack what actually makes a successful founder. Drawing from the early days of Pret A Manger and the global expansion of itsu, Julian shares blunt, experience driven lessons about customer obsession, product detail, discipline, and why chasing status and luxury is a distraction. The conversation focuses on founder mindset, resilience, trust, and the personal cost of building great companies.
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- [00:00]
Julian Metcalf
ADP knows anything can change the world of work.
- [00:03]
Podcast Host
Like what if a blocked shipping port.
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Julian Metcalf
Caused a worldwide coffee shortage? Suddenly, businesses are scrambling to manage an increasingly drowsy workforce. Productivity slips 20% just due to the extended time it takes to conduct a.
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Podcast Host
Job interview while yawning.
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Julian Metcalf
Anything can change the world of work.
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Podcast Host
From HR to payroll, ADP helps businesses.
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Julian Metcalf
Take on the next anything.
- [00:24]
Podcast Host
ADP always designing for people.
- [00:28]
Commercial Narrator
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- [01:32]
Podcast Host
So Julian, I'm so excited to have you today. I mean, I've been to the restaurants that you founded for many, many years. I've seen them all around the world. I've tried them all around the world and just I can imagine how, what it's like to be a founder of a business where you could go in many different countries around the world and you see, you see that thing that you started, your baby, that thing that you created, I'd love to understand because I know you're doing so many other things and we could get into all that. But Julian, what is it like when you're walking down the street and you see pret a manger and I know there's like a thousand stores all around the world, what's that feeling like?
- [02:15]
Julian Metcalf
Okay, that's a perfectly good question. But it's a question which is in my, I reckon of no interest to your viewers. Because if I wanted to be a founder and I was loyal and listening to your show, what I really want to try and understand is how do I become a founder successfully? What do I have to do? And can I learn anything from this old man at all? Is he going to say anything which I can, which triggers emotions and connection for me and I hope that's what I'll do. That's the reason I want. I'm very happy to do this show with you is because maybe I can teach something. Because when in my day we didn't have podcasts, so I learned. I had to learn the hard way. I didn't get any help from anybody. But the feeling to answer a question, when I walk down and see a pret. A manger anywhere in the world. You know what? I really don't give a damn. I look at it, I judge it. Is it good? Is it bad? Do the staff look happy? Is the food good? And then I realized there's nothing I can do about it, so I might as well walk away. So I don't care. It's not connected. Sadly, you know, I don't own any of it. I can't influence it. The people who run it have no interest in. In working with me. It would. So. So that's fine. That's their prerogative. So I don't give a damn.
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Podcast Host
I appreciate the answer, by the way. I mean, I love that and I love your honesty.
- [03:37]
Julian Metcalf
So it's important that people listening to this realize the truth, which is it really doesn't bloody matter. What matters is them, your viewers, and how are they going to be a successful founder rather than going to the extreme end, which. Is it wonderful to be a founder? Is it wonderful to be success? How does it make you feel? Fuck it, it's not important. What matters is how do you make a success? What do you have to do?
- [04:03]
Podcast Host
I love to hear, what does it feel like? So what do we have to do? What do I have to do to make a successful business today?
- [04:09]
Julian Metcalf
Well, there are lots of things, because, you know, when. When people talk about founders and. And rich people and. And they think, oh, they could go out and they could buy any yacht, any helicopter, or a Ferrari, and it must be such a wonderful experience. It's nonsense. It's. It's a founder. If you're going to sell a product or make a service, it. It's you. You've got to. It's got to. It's a compelling cause for huge commitment, love and determination into your product, into your service, or whatever it is you're doing. And I promise you this, the dream of the Ferrari is pretty freaking low on your list of priorities. In other words, most people who build businesses, they. They really spend very, very, very little time worrying about the Ferrari or the yacht. That's not what. What propels them. It's not what motivates them. I mean, it's nice if you can afford to go and buy a Ferrari, I guess. I mean, I don't want a Ferrari, but, you know, some people do, but it's not, you know, very often the people who show off with money, show off with expensive this and that and have huge gold watches and all this. They're often not that successful or wealthy people. So anyone who wants to be a founder, I think that's really interesting. I. I really respect people who want to work for themselves. I think you're great, so welcome. The idea of working for yourself is wonderful and I hope maybe I can give you a couple of tips. But to be a founder is wonderful. Wonderful.
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Podcast Host
So let's go back in time to the first company you founded. What problem were you solving? What was your vision at that moment?
- [05:45]
Julian Metcalf
That's a good question, because I think most people who found a business, it is important that you are trying to solve some problem. Sometimes really amazing founders are solving problems that we didn't even know we had. But in my case, my problem, the problem I was solving was really obvious when, which was. The food in England in 1986 was pretty disgusting. America, the food in New York was much better. The food all over Europe was much better. So you could eat anywhere in Italy or anywhere in France, you know, with, in those days, 10 bucks, 5 bucks, you could eat something really good in England. It was really, really bad, really shocking. So I thought, stupidly, because I was so naive, I thought, well, it can't be that difficult. So I'm going to open a food shop, more or less. That's kind of how it happened. I was quite young. I think I was 24, and I'm. I'm going to open a food shop and I'm going to make it great and everyone will come and then I'll buy a Ferrari.
- [06:43]
Podcast Host
So what you're saying to me then is that the feeling of getting the Ferrari was not satisfying?
- [06:50]
Julian Metcalf
No, of course it's not. No.
- [06:53]
Podcast Host
So what. What did you ever buy in your life that was satisfying? And the reason why I asked this question too is I was just listening to the. Another founder of NetJets and he was talking about his watch and how his watch represented success because it was a milestone versus it being a watch. Like it could have been anything else. He just chose it to be a watch. But is there anything in your life that when you hit a certain milestone that maybe you go on a trip, maybe you buy something, maybe, I don't know, maybe you listen to a song, Is there something that has meaning?
- [07:27]
Julian Metcalf
It's a really good Question. And it'll be a question which a lot of founders will be really interested in because they. They are all. We are all, as founders, captivated by the concept of we want to be free. We want to be able to afford what we need and want in life. We don't want stress and agony. We don't want to spend all our days doing something we hate for and then being paid less than we think we're worth. We don't want to be controlled by a wank, a stupid boss who's an idiot. So being free and possibly being rich and having the freedom to buy whatever you want whenever you wanted is very compelling, obviously. But unfortunately, most of the work, 90% of the work and responsibility of being a founder is your relationship with your customers. So you must not spend too much time dreaming about or thinking that the money, if you make success of what it is you do, will give you much joy. In my case, I'll try and answer your question. I remember for years always having to go economy when I first could buy a business car seat. It was a huge breakthrough for me because it is more comfortable and you. And the seats wider and you feel less like you're on a, you know, on a train. So for me, being able to buy my first business car seat was amazing. There are a few other things, you know, being able to afford a lovely home with a beautiful view, you know, that type of thing is lovely. Being able to afford a holiday home is lovely. You know, so Christmas or Easter or the holidays are less stressful. Things like that. They're wonderful. So I'm. I'm not ever going to say money is not important. Of course it's important. And, and. But it's not your God, it's not your main reason. Your main reason is I want to do a beautiful job with my service or my product. I want to build a strong team and I want to astound them, myself and my customers with something which is just great. And if it gets me another watch or another Ferrari, it. Maybe it does. Who cares? It's certainly not the.
- [09:26]
Podcast Host
Yeah, I could totally relate to the business class, by the way. I used to always fly economy, but my back would hurt. I'd be very tired as I'm in my 40s now. I know you're only a little bit older than me. I think you're like 45. It's something.
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Julian Metcalf
I still never go first class. I'll go business. I mean, I could afford to go. I could afford to go first class anytime I want, but I Never do. Because, you know, all of us as founders, don't waste money and never confuse status with success. In other words, don't go and spend three times as much on a first class ticket because it makes you, you think you're superior. That's ridiculous. This, that is. Don't waste money. Don't be stupid.
- [10:07]
Podcast Host
I love that. So I know that you, I would say you have a obsession with details. Listening to you understand, I've heard you talk about lighting, packaging, ingredients, all these things. Do you think that most founders need to have this maniacal focus on details and really like being in there with the product, the service that they have to make sure there is as much perfection as possible?
- [10:32]
Julian Metcalf
Yes. Yeah. The answer is yes, of course. You know, they've got to really care about it. I don't know if the word is maniacal, but they've got to passionately and really be accountable and really care about it. Yeah, of course it is. Doesn't matter what it is. A service, you know, doesn't matter what it is. Anything you've got, you've got to look astound. Your customers, if you don't just stand them, you're not going to build loyalty. They'll go somewhere else.
- [10:56]
Podcast Host
I love that. I get that. When I've heard you talk so many times about this and that's what I really took away was you just, you're so passionate. Did you ever have a night where you woke up in the middle of the night and you said, you know what, this is a bad idea, maybe I'll go get a job. But this, whatever, this being a founder, this business, this is a bad idea.
- [11:16]
Julian Metcalf
No, I've never had that, ever. I've only ever had one job in my life. I've never, ever, ever, ever, ever, however tough it gets, ever for a single second thought of giving it up. No.
- [11:28]
Podcast Host
How did you get through that? What kept you going in the nights when every. Like you said, being a founder is not easy. And I don't know if it's for everybody in terms of the grit and, and the mental fortitude you need, but what kept you going so that to.
- [11:41]
Julian Metcalf
Involve everyone watching that? There's two things you said there which, which are interesting. Number one, anyone could be a founder. Anyone, every single one of of your listeners could be a founder. Of course they can. It's just up to them. They, if they want to start a service or build a product or which, which they, they hanker after and believe will add value to people's lives. And they've Then got the guts to go around and, and mock it up and talk to people about it and test it and, and, and maybe they can be a founder. Anyone can be a founder. I know that now. Also, when you do found a business, when you start a business, start selling something, things never turn out quite the way you feel you think. I promise you, never, never, never. Every day. For me, every day is different. You have to change and accept the fact things don't work out the way you hope. Every single day. That's fine. Why I love doing it because it never gets boring. The mistakes and the opportunities are always there, even big things. When, when whole markets change, you move from, you know, renting videos to Netflix. Well, these things don't usually happen overnight, you know, you should be able to see them coming. So if you make a product which is fantastic for today, but won't be around in 10 years, well, gives you plenty of time to pivot and, and build that relationship with your customers. But most people, founders, they like to find something new, don't they? Actually, most of us never find anything. I've not done anything new. My God, I sold sandwiches. They've been around since the 18th century. It's the oldest, most boring business in the whole world. I found it. Sandwiches. My God. What's new about that? Nothing. What's new about what I do now with Itsu and noodles? Nothing. They've been eating and loving this food for a thousand years. I haven't done anything. What I do do is work with smart people. And we work out ways of adding value to our customers. We try and astound them. We try and give them more than they expected. We try and get them to. We try and give them more than they hoped, more, more than they were expecting. We try and enhance their life in a way, and that's fun and it's engaging and it's creative, and that's what founders do. They make a better pencil or a better soup or a better bowl or a better cup or a better phone. Like that guy. You know that we have an Englishman called Dyson. I think he made 500 prototypes, didn't he, to make his Hoover work. That's mad.
- [14:14]
Podcast Host
That's passion. I know you have so much heart in business. I, I am so inspired by talking to you right now because of your heart and your passion. And I want to know more about Itsu. And I'm. And I'm wondering when you started it, did people think, like, the new year.
- [14:30]
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- [15:03]
Podcast Host
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- [15:06]
Julian Metcalf
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Podcast Host
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- [15:14]
Julian Metcalf
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- [15:16]
Podcast Host
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Julian Metcalf
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- [15:24]
Podcast Host
By Grainger for the ones who get it done. You're kind of crazy. Like you're saying the Earl of sandwich must be really happy because of how well you made the sandwich. And now you have noodles like thousands of year old thing that people have been eating for a while. So what was this like starting over with this new restaurant?
- [15:44]
Julian Metcalf
So it's who started it to grocery and Itzu started because Japanese. Anyone who's ever been to Japan will know how much they love and respect their food. Their food's incredible, just breathtaking. The respect and love and I was astounded by it. Age 23 When I first went. I've never seen anything like it. So I came back to England and I opened a very affordable Japanese restaurant with a Japanese. A Japanese partner. But I wanted it to be very, very, very affordable because I wanted everyone to. To be able to afford to go there. So we created a kaiten restaurant which is like a conveyor belt. We only had 16 dishes and they were beautiful. And they were. And it soon became the busiest restaurant I think per square foot in London. It won lots of awards, it was amazing experience. But after that we opened five more of those. And then I got exhausted by being in the restaurant business. I wanted to bring affordable, healthy East Asian Japanese food to many more people. So we, we opened the first Itsu shop and that was in a building in Hanover Square, a small shop. We made everything there downstairs. Beautiful relationship between the equipment, the menu and everything. There were only 14 of us in there who worked there. But I remember on the first week we sold 10 times as much as the previous occupier of this place. 10 times the volume, the boxes, the bento boxes, everything we did was beautiful and very affordable. And after that we opened another one and then another one, and then we opened 10 more, 20 more 50. And we. And wherever we opened, people flocked and, and came and enjoyed it. Now with that comes a huge amount of challenges with people training, management. The restaurant business is very, very, very tough. But you know, we, on the whole, not every day, some days we, we do really poorly. But on the whole, I'm lucky enough to work with amazing people, and we will. We're opening new itzus, I think in Holland now, and we opened one the other day, another one. They're beautiful, affordable East Asian food. Broth noodles, brown rice dumplings. We're the biggest seller now of dumplings, almost in Europe, certainly in England. We have six flavors of delicious Giza without preservatives, without additives. We, miso soup, were number one. Seaweed were number one. I first went to Korea years ago and I ate their toasted seaweed. Never eaten anything like it. It's much, it's different to Japanese Nori. The Koreans, they do it differently. And I fell in love with that. So now we're number one in seaweed, number one in miso.
- [18:23]
Podcast Host
And.
- [18:24]
Julian Metcalf
And it's. Your grocery is filled with passionately brilliant, young, just lung developers, creative people. And we all get together every Wednesday, every Friday, every Monday, and we develop and we create and then we create products with real guts. And then we take them to our supermarkets here in Europe and they buy them. It's great. It's very creative and it's important because on the whole, it's all affordable and it's all preservative and additive free and it's convenient. In other words, a lot of what we do is really quick and easy to eat. But the biggest thing I've ever done in my life, my career by far, with regard to food, is this latest thing we're doing with these noodles. So instant noodles are. These are. Instant noodles are remarkable. The noodles are completely additive free. There's not a single chemical in this. The secret has been to develop with the Japanese. The great miso master of Japan and I worked together for years, three or four years, to develop the broths. We have six flavors of, of broth. It's not paste, it's real miso paste, not powder. And you mix it with the, the noodles with water, and for like $3, you have a fantastic, healthy, delicious meal. I mean, it's. It's like a miracle in a way. I mean, people like founders, you know, they want to believe that Products a miracle. Because they really do need to believe in miracles. And it's taken me 64 years, but I think we've got a miracle.
- [19:57]
Podcast Host
Julian. I'm not only am I starving right now. I love Japanese food pretty much most Asian food. I mean, I'm currently in Asia and I love Asian food, but I really, really love Japanese food. Some of the best steak I ever had was a Japanese restaurant. It was pouring out. We ran in because it was raining. The place was a mess. There was one employee, he did everything in the restaurant, and so he had to clean. He. I mean, it was insane. And the steak was like $6. And it was the best steak I've ever had.
- [20:29]
Julian Metcalf
It's amazing, isn't it? And you know many countries in East Asia. You're in the Philippines, right? So I ate some mango 10 years ago, the best dried mango I'd ever had in my life. And I found out it was made on an island in the Philippines called Cebu. So I flew to Manila. I then got a plane to Cebu. I went to the factory and I. I've never eaten mango that. That good. Never. And I was. Spent the two days there at the factory. And then we started selling mango. But food is. Food in East Asia is in just incredible. I mean, the food of Laos, the food of Cambodia, the food of Vietnam. Oh my God, you could live off. I see incredible.
- [21:14]
Podcast Host
I know those mangoes. I tell everyone that the Philippines has a. The best mangoes I've ever had. Because I like to hang out near Cebu, same area. And then also we go to this very small island and we get. They call it young coconut. So it's like coconut from the tree. The guy climbs up the tree, it's like a dollar. He gets you the coconut, they chop it open and it's the best coconut water, coconut whatever on a coconut juice. It's amazing. It's unbelievable. There's nothing like you're saying, I love what you're doing. One day you and I have to have lunch. I'm gonna have. I want to see the passion of you eating the food I feel like.
- [21:51]
Julian Metcalf
You would have enjoyed yesterday. So we have about three hours every single Wednesday where about 16 of us brilliant people working together. Creative packaging, product. All about the color, the texture, the food, the taste. Working with our partners in. In Japan or in Korea, or we have one or two really very talented partners in China, now in Vietnam. And they're amazing. I keep going all the time on that. But we only do East Asian food, Itzu. And we do it with we really like to try and keep it very authentic and a great. I think we're successful because a great many people prior to us just cut corners that they're not really dealing with the companies at all. It's fake, as it were.
- [22:40]
Podcast Host
Well, I can't wait to get it. And I am curious if you could go back to the young Julian when you were early on, maybe you were in a pret shop in London and you could give one piece of advice but it's not about business, it's more about happiness. What would you say?
- [22:58]
Julian Metcalf
Well, I think two things on that. Apparently any founder, any, any potential founder watching your show, I've been reliably informed at least three or four times that when people get very old, if they've been successful, they all answer this question the same way. Which is not what's given you most happiness. With your great success and everything you've done, what actually has made you happy? You know what the answer is? It's always, always watching the people I work with grow, watching them build their confidence, watching them take on responsibility and become great leaders. In other words, like so much about humanity, it's the ability to watch people grow and give. Our company's been completely built by what we call the four ITSUIQs. And I don't know where we ever would be without them. But they, they try and reflect. It's purely accidental. They were put together just with common sense years and years ago. But they are. I want to grow which reflects about you as a person. I want to take on responsibility. I want to be better, I want to be accountable. I want to learn, I want to be more professional. I want to walk tall. I, you know, I want to grow. You've got to want to grow. You've got to believe you can grow as a person. Number two is I build trust. It is impossible to build a business, to found a business, to be successful in business, unless you understand the word trust. People have got to be able to trust you, your team, the people who work for you, people who work you. Trust is important. And the other one is I take pride. You've got to love your product or your service. You've got to take pride in it, you've got to believe in it. It's got to be good. You've got to be honest about it. And the last one is I care. In other words, I actually care what people think of my product. I care what they think of me. I care about my reputation. So I care. I take pride. I build trust and I want to grow. Those four things will make all any founder watching this successful. It's all you need those four. The rest is. That's it, Just those four.
- [25:08]
Podcast Host
There you go. The master class is out. Final question, Julian, and thank you for sharing those four. I love that. Is there anything in life, anything that you haven't done yet? I mean, it could be go to the moon on a fly to Mars, it could be whatever it is. Is there anything in life that you say, you know what? This is something I haven't done yet, but I would like to do.
- [25:27]
Julian Metcalf
So I guess the honest answer to that question is everything you achieve and all your founders and the people watching this, everything you achieve in business with your product, your success and everything. Unfortunately, the truth is it kind of pales into insignificance compared to your personal relationships with people, I. E. Your family and your friends, your partner, maybe that's the irritating truth. So if you're a founder and you work enormously hard, you're really dedicated, it invariably does come at a cost. But a clever person knows that early and doesn't destroy their personal relationships. Stays manages to love, be loved and stay close to the people who, they. Who, who are immensely valuable. And that's obviously your friends, your family. So that's a good bit of advice. Don't screw up your relationships as a founder too badly. You're proud to screw up some, but try not to screw them all up. I, I've, you know, I could have, I wish I'd done far better on that. I am, I love what I do. I don't regret it, but I spend far too much energy involved in what I do rather than going for long walks. I don't play golf, I don't have the temperament. I don't take sports, do sports. I don't look after my health. And I wish I spent far more time with my children, although I do work with two of them, and I work with one of them quite a lot. But that's the only advice I can give you if you want a bit of brutal honesty. Your friends, family and relationships are probably ultimately far more important than anything you do in business.
- [27:07]
Podcast Host
I appreciate that, Julian. We've heard this before. Some of the other incredible people that we've had on, like yourself, many of them have told us it came at the expense of getting divorced multiple times, came at the expense of not being able to see their children very much growing up because they were engulfed in the business. So we've heard this before, and it seems to almost always be A byproduct of the business. Do you think it's possible to really scale at the same time also? Side.
- [27:39]
Julian Metcalf
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course it's possible. Absolutely. It's possible. It's completely possible. Yeah. As long as you stick to the truth. And you only stick to the truth, always. Your children, for instance, will understand. Your children, Your children, human beings. We want to be around people who are driven and passionate and successful. It's wonderful. Doesn't matter if you're a writer or a singer or a politician. Doesn't matter what your children understand, your family understand what they don't. What is unforgivable is when it. Your energy, your determination becomes destructive. There's a fine line, you know, Julian.
- [28:15]
Podcast Host
Metcalf, I mean, this has been amazing. I was so excited to have you on and just everything you've done before was always inspirational. I love hearing you talk. Just because I've never listened to anyone that is as passionate as you about the customer experience the customer and what you're doing with Itzu. I mean, I can't wait to try it. I love noodles and I'm always afraid of unhealthy noodles. So I've been looking for an alternative and one day I'm going to come out to you. We're gonna have. There it is. Thank you so much, by the way, for joining us. Thank you for giving all of this incredible knowledge. There it is.
- [28:50]
Julian Metcalf
No, that's the noodles. These are hand folded. Everyone is folded by hand. Place three times now in North Vietnam. It's great product. For $2. I think it'll be $3. It's the best $3 you can ever spend, I think. Anyway, don't like me. Thank the Japanese and the career, the Vietnamese and the genius and the hard work of the people who did it. I just, I just oiled the wheels. I just didn't do much.
- [29:17]
Podcast Host
They did amazing, by the way. You, you are amazing. You're. You're brutal, honest. That's why I like to talk to anyone that's from the uk. Any. Anyone that's from the uk. British, they always give me. They're always honest. But thank you so much. By. By the way, I, I grew up watching Monty Python. Whose Line Is It Anyway? I grew up all watching British humor. People just did. Oh, wait, I tell every. There's some lines from Life is Brian. Was it Life is Brian?
- [29:43]
Julian Metcalf
Yeah, It's a flesh wound.
- [29:45]
Podcast Host
The flesh wound is great. There's another one. I can't say it because people might be offended, but there's so many great lines that I remember and I say them and nobody has clue what I'm talking about. Like they don't remember it. And so I'm glad that you do. But thank you so much for joining us today.
- [29:58]
Julian Metcalf
Wonderful. Okay, bye. Bye.
- [30:05]
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Julian Metcalf
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- [30:47]
Julian Metcalf
Blower motor, there's no need to break a sweat. With Grainger's easy to use website and.
- [30:52]
Podcast Host
Product details, you're confident you'll soon have everything humming right along. Call 1-800-granger clickgranger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. If you like the show, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening.