Freakonomics Radio

Episode 655: “The Greatest Piece of Participatory Art Ever Created”

Release Date: December 5, 2025
Host: Stephen J. Dubner

Episode Overview

In this first episode of a three-part series, Stephen J. Dubner explores the enduring power of Handel’s Messiah, examining its history, musical brilliance, unusual religious context, and remarkable ability to unite people across centuries, cultures, and personal backgrounds. With visits to key sites in Dublin—the place of Messiah’s premiere—and interviews with local musicians, musicologists, and scholars, the episode uncovers how this oratorio became the "greatest piece of participatory art ever created." Dubner dives into the themes of hope, charity, agency, and collective experience that elevate Messiah beyond mere music, shaping its legend as art that not only comforted audiences in times of darkness, but actively invited their engagement and optimism.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Falling in Love with Messiah

• Setting the Scene (01:12–04:40):
  Dubner describes his discovery of Messiah during a dark period of the COVID-19 pandemic. Attending a live performance filled him with hope, prompting reflection on how people predict (and fear) the future, often leading to exclusion and division.

  "The older I get, the more I realize that fear of the future is essentially a default condition of humankind." — Stephen Dubner (02:00)

2. Messiah and Its Irish Roots

• The Dublin Premiere (04:40–07:07):
  Dubner travels to Fishamble Street, Dublin, the site of Messiah’s 1742 premiere. He’s guided by Stuart Kinsella, local musician and oratorio expert, who notes the tradition of annual outdoor performances—even in rain and snow.

  "It’s a lovely experience because everyone just comes along, brings their scores… and they go through some of the best choruses." — Stuart Kinsella (06:23)

• Community Performance and Living Legacy (07:07–10:06):
  Dubner interviews renowned Irish conductor Prontius (Francis) O'Dinn, who has conducted Messiah outdoors for decades, emphasizing its participatory and communal nature.

  "If music becomes a chore, I stop." — Prontius O'Dinn (08:58)
  "We played in horizontal snow and sleet. There's a photograph in the Irish Times of a member of the choir with a hailstone on his tongue." — Prontius O'Dinn (09:57)

3. Meeting the Keepers of Tradition

• A Serendipitous Encounter (11:02–14:56):
  While exploring Dublin, Dubner’s team meets Aileen Casey, whose husband Michael Casey kept the Messiah tradition alive by blasting records out his window—the kernel for the annual community performances.

  "Wait, that's your husband? The one that opened the window and played Messiah out the window?" — Stephen Dubner to Aileen Casey (14:21)
  "That is one of those Irish coincidences. What is it, 7 degrees? There's always somebody that you know that knows somebody else." — Aileen Casey (14:36)

• Inside the Casey Home (15:32–17:39):
  Michael Casey explains his lifelong connection to the oratorio and its inexhaustible appeal.

  "I've always lived in an 18th-century house. And you do actually feel there's a musical sense about interiors." — Michael Casey (17:27)

4. Universality and Participatory Legacy

• Power Across Divides (18:36–19:13):
  The theme of participatory art is reinforced—Messiah attracts people from all backgrounds, regardless of religion or nationality.

  "We gave him back his… what they call the mojo. Is that what he calls it? The mojo of Messiah." — Charles King (19:09)

5. The Musical Power of the Hallelujah Chorus

• Wide Cultural Footprint (19:56–21:23):
  The most famous movement, the "Hallelujah Chorus," has appeared everywhere from movies to TV ads, to bluegrass, gospel, even metal versions.

  "To the throwback versions with period instruments… There are gospel versions… metal versions… bluegrass messiahs… and steel drum messiahs." — Stephen Dubner (20:56)

• Musician Perspectives (22:18–28:40): Mark Risinger, musicologist, describes his lifelong relationship with Messiah, and both he and Kinsella reflect on the enduring thrill of performing or listening to the work in context.

  "I absolutely get a thrill, especially when I get to hear it or sing it in context. The melody itself is fine, but when you reach that point in the story, it is really incredibly exciting." — Mark Risinger (24:52)

  Kinsella notes that although professionals may groan at singing Hallelujah repeatedly, its excellence and placement in the full oratorio remain moving.

  "It's got a little hackneyed… but it's still an amazing piece." — Stuart Kinsella (25:49) "Experiencing them in the context… it really makes a big difference to your reception of the music." — Stuart Kinsella (27:48)

6. Messiah as a Democratic and Hopeful Work of Art

• Charles King on Emotional Impact (31:36–36:01): Author and political scientist Charles King discusses Messiah’s history and his own emotional connection, describing how the piece, created in the shadow of disease, war, and political strife, endures as a shared act of hope and participation.

  "It is a kind of thing that you not only go and listen to, but it's a thing you might sing along with… that's in part why I think it's survived for so long." — Charles King (35:47)

7. The Baroque Era: A Spirit of Artistic Upheaval

• Baroque as Radical (36:01–39:18): King explains that the Baroque era was “the punk of its day,” marked by rule-breaking, innovation, improvisation, and new instruments—a spirit mirrored in Messiah’s creation.

  "Baroque was much closer to jazz than it is to later symphonic orchestral music… there was every expectation that a performance was going to be a unique event." — Charles King (37:15)

8. The Impact of Suffering and the Hope of Agency

• Creation Amid Hardship (40:55–46:27):
  King and Dubner explore the suffering and tumult of Handel and librettist Charles Jennings’ times—war, disease, social division—and how Messiah channels a message of promise, comfort, and personal agency.

  "I think there are a number of things that get braided together inside Messiah. Handel was a composer for the stage… He married that with sacred text… And that shape was the one he acquired from Charles Jennings." — Charles King (39:53)

• Agency and the Enlightenment (54:53–56:57):

  "There's nothing in Messiah that's in the biblical order. It's all in the order that the librettist, Charles Jennings, wanted you to hear it in. So it begins with the idea of comfort, 'Comfort ye my people' … It is saying you do the comforting. You go and act in the world in a comforting way." — Charles King (55:06)

9. Art as Response to Suffering

• Messiah’s Lasting Message (58:56–59:57): King frames Messiah as a call to imagine a more just world—even if just for a few hours—and be moved to act.

  "Just for the couple of hours that you're sitting… imagine that things are going to be okay. Imagine that the world is going to be just rather than unjust. And what would you do then to help make it that way?" — Charles King (59:15)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Personal Agency in Hard Times:
  "Lean into the darkness, like, really feel it… then look for the ladders out. That’s what I think Charles Jennings was doing in creating the original libretto for this. This deeply depressed man was building his own ladder out of the pit." — Charles King (57:13)

• On the Universal Appeal of Messiah:
  "As it turns out, a lot of Jews love Handel's Messiah, as do a lot of Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists and atheists too." — Stephen Dubner (02:12)

• Irish Coincidences and Community:
  “That is one of those Irish coincidences. What is it, 7 degrees? There's always somebody that you know that knows somebody else.” — Aileen Casey (14:36)

• Art in an Age of Suffering:
  "You write, 'It took a universe of pain to make a musical monument to hope.' Describe for me what you mean by that universe of pain." — Stephen Dubner to Charles King (44:04)

• On Performance Context:
  "If you just bang out the greatest hits, it's like sticking on your record of the top 20 or whatever… But experiencing them in context… it really makes a big difference." — Stuart Kinsella (27:43)

Important Segment Timestamps

• Dubner's initial encounter with Messiah and hope in darkness: 01:12–04:40
• Fishamble Street & Dublin Messiah performance tradition: 04:40–07:07
• Conductor Francis O’Dinn on the job of a conductor: 07:20–08:46
• Community story: Michael Casey and the tradition’s beginnings: 12:44–17:39
• The meaning of participatory art and enduring appeal: 18:36–19:13, 21:38–22:18
• Why the Hallelujah Chorus endures: 24:52–28:40
• Discussion of Charles Jennings and Enlightenment context: 31:36–46:27
• Art’s role in suffering and hope: 54:53–59:57
• Messiah as collective, democratic, transformative art: 55:06–56:35

Conclusion & What’s Next

The episode concludes by linking Messiah's participatory, hopeful spirit to both its historical context and contemporary anxieties. Its call—through music—for collective hope and agency has resonated across centuries, making it not just timeless but continuously reborn.

Next episode: Handel’s entrepreneurial struggles and legacy, and Messiah's life after its debut.