Freakonomics Radio: “Who Pays for ‘Messiah’?”

Episode Date: December 17, 2025
Host: Stephen J. Dubner
Guest: Gary W. Parr, Investment Banker, Former Board Chair of the New York Philharmonic

Overview

This bonus episode continues Freakonomics Radio’s exploration into George Frideric Handel’s Messiah, not just as a beloved piece of music but as a living tradition—and a major financial and philanthropic enterprise. Host Stephen Dubner sits down with Gary W. Parr, the “presenter” behind the New York Philharmonic’s annual Messiah performances, to dig into what it means to be a modern-day patron of the arts, how orchestras finance iconic programming, the art of arts philanthropy, and the evolving cultural mission of major musical institutions.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Business and Tradition of the Philharmonic’s Messiah

• Origins of Parr’s Patronage
  • When Gary Parr was joining the Philharmonic’s board, Messiah “endowment” was an available naming opportunity—an appealing option for a self-professed fan. “It immediately spoke to me. I love this piece of music…nobody else had stepped up to do it yet.” (12:42)
• Why Keep Performing Messiah?
  • The Philharmonic regularly revisits whether it should keep certain traditions. Parr’s stance: “Just because we’ve done it and because it is a tradition is no reason to continue. You should only continue if it’s a good idea. It is a good idea. Tickets do sell well. It is a good revenue generator.” (14:26)
• Messiah as Tradition & Revenue
  • Despite its age, Messiah remains a “good revenue generator,” though blockbuster movie concerts can also be crowd-pleasers. “There’s a discussion about, during the holiday season…would it be better to do movie soundtracks? …But in the end, I said, ‘Well, I’ll endow it and we keep doing it.’” (13:48)
• Notable Quote:
  • “The Messiah does just fine.” (14:40, Gary Parr)

2. The Economics of Orchestras

• How Orchestras Stay Afloat
  • Orchestras are expensive: “A hundred musicians…all their instruments…a staff to support them. It’s expensive.” (08:09)
  • Ticket sales cover only “30–35% of the total cost of running the orchestra. Changing ticket prices by 10% or 20% doesn’t make a big difference; it’s got to come from charitable contributions.” (09:29)
• Philanthropy Fills the Funding Gap
  • There’s “virtually no government support” in the U.S. for orchestras. “It is entirely dependent on philanthropy of primarily individuals.” (08:32)
• Why Not Charge Broadway Prices?
  • If orchestras charged like Broadway—$400–$900 a seat—attendance would likely plummet. (10:11)
• Comparison with Europe
  • European orchestras are mostly state-funded (90%+ of budgets), while American orchestras receive “less than 5% and in most instances less than 1% of the budget” from government (22:10).

3. The Culture and Purpose of Arts Philanthropy

• Patronage, Then and Now
  • Parr draws parallels between modern American donors and patrons like the Medicis; but where they had sweeping civic vision, he prefers “narrower components where I can make a difference”—often in teaching and educational initiatives. (19:10)
• Why Americans Give
  • Philanthropy is deeply cultural in the U.S.; “Europeans have grown accustomed over time to the fact that government does it. They therefore do not.” (20:48)
  • Americans might get a tax deduction, “but that does not explain it all.” (21:40)
• Public Good and Economic Dynamism
  • Dubner wonders if America’s philanthropic model is a feature or a bug. Parr acknowledges: “GDP growth in America has been higher than Europe for decades. Charitable giving is higher than Europe…It just creates a wonderful dynamic.” (24:13)

4. Personal Stories and Motivation

• Early Arts Experiences
  • Both Dubner and Parr attribute formative experiences to inspirational public school teachers (03:57–05:14).
  • Parr’s first classical music “hook” was Tchaikovsky’s 1812 Overture—“That’s really cool, that you could have music with cannons in it. And it’s safe to say I was hooked.” (07:23)
• Teaching Shakespeare
  • Parr sponsors a “Parr Prize for Excellence in Teaching Shakespeare,” inspired by his high school teacher. “Teaching Shakespeare matters, and it takes great teachers to do it.” (05:14)

5. Modernization and Globalization

• The Renovation of Geffen Hall
  • Parr was involved in the massive renovation, making the experience “smaller, more surround, so every member of the audience…is closer. And that just adds to the experience.” (25:46)
• Lessons from Leadership
  • “50% of what someone hears is actually what they see and feel,” quoted from Pierre Boulez, underscoring the value of venue aesthetics and audience experience (25:53–26:37).
• International Residencies
  • The Philharmonic’s “second home” in Shanghai helps expand its audience and donor base. “You get a place to perform. Touring is incredibly expensive…but a second home…creates loyalty and a donor base.” (27:43–29:43)
  • This “residency” later helped bring in board members and donors from China and fostered greater cultural exchange (32:13–32:35).

6. The People Behind the Music

• Auditions and Talent Pipeline
  • Auditions are intense: “Over 400 qualified applicants…get about six minutes behind a blind screen. The result…was like 70% of the new hires were Chinese or South Korean female.” (32:41)
• Musicians’ Perspective on Messiah
  • Despite playing it annually, “quite a number of musicians count it as one of the more special pieces of music they play.” Sometimes, though, “they’re really playing without a conductor.” (44:14)
• Notable Quote:
  • “I was involved in the rescue of Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns…but these musicians—it comes down to six minutes in their life.” (33:03)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Why Philanthropy is Necessary
  “If classical music and opera and even literature and the other arts are so valuable, why isn’t there enough demand that they can be supported without these patrons?” – Stephen Dubner (09:47)

• On the Universality of Messiah
  “It is that bridge to our commonality. What do we have in common as opposed to what do we have that’s different.”
  (41:10, Gary Parr)

• On Religiosity of the Piece
  “For me personally, yes, I was raised Methodist, very active in the church…But I don’t need to have other people feel that…I am not [imposing]. It is great music. If someone is religious, then it’s a wonderful experience on that level as well. But they need not be.” (41:23)

• On the Ritual of Standing for the Hallelujah Chorus
  “I feel a peer pressure. So I’m there, I’m the presenter of the piece, and they get to this part, and I think, well, if I don’t stand up, people are going to go, ‘What kind of jerk is that?’ So I stand up.” (43:27)

Important Segments & Timestamps

• Gary Parr Introduction and the Roots of Patronage (03:11–06:42)
• Economics of Orchestras & Ticket Revenues: (08:09–09:47)
• Comparison: American vs. European Arts Funding: (20:48–23:03)
• Renovation and Experience in Geffen Hall: (25:31–27:33)
• Global Strategy: Shanghai Residency & Cultural Exchange: (27:33–32:35)
• Violin Auditions and the Asian Talent Pipeline: (32:41–34:42)
• Personal Experience of Messiah—Words vs. Music: (38:20–41:16)
• On the Universality and Meaning of Messiah: (41:10–43:09)
• The Ritual of Standing at the Hallelujah Chorus: (43:27)
• Orchestra’s Perspective on Messiah Performances: (44:14–45:21)
• Reflection on Modern vs. Historical Patronage: (45:53–46:24)

Tone & Style

The conversation is thoughtful, personal, and occasionally witty—combining Dubner’s probing curiosity with Parr’s humility and dry humor. Both host and guest frequently use anecdotes to illuminate more abstract questions of tradition, public good, and personal fulfillment through the arts.

For Listeners New to the Topic:

This episode offers an accessible, deep dive into the economics and meaning of arts patronage: it reveals why beloved traditions like Messiah persist, what it takes (financially and culturally) to keep world-class arts alive, and how old-school patronage now fits within a global, modern context. If you’ve ever enjoyed a great performance and wondered “who made this possible?”—this conversation has the answers.