Freakonomics Radio – “Extra: A Modern Whaler Speaks Up (Update)”

Episode Date: August 27, 2025
Host: Stephen J. Dubner
Guest: Bjorn Andersen (Norwegian whaler and fisherman)

Episode Overview

In this bonus episode, Stephen Dubner expands on Freakonomics Radio’s whaling series by finally securing an interview with a modern-day commercial whaler: Bjorn Andersen of Norway. With most whalers reluctant to engage the media, Andersen gives a rare firsthand perspective on the practicalities, economics, and environmental ethics of contemporary whaling—contrasting public sentiment and activism with lived experience aboard a whaling vessel.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background on Modern Whaling

• The heyday of global commercial whaling has passed; today it survives mainly in Norway, Iceland, and Japan.
• Of the 1,400 minke whales permitted for harvest in Norway annually, fewer than half are actually taken, reflecting reduced demand for whale products.
  (Dubner, 00:58-03:11)

2. Bjorn Andersen’s Story

• Andersen lives in Lofoten, Norway, and comes from a long line of fishermen and whalers.
• His annual cycle: cod fishing (January), whaling (spring-summer), boat repairs (late summer), herring fishing (autumn).
  (Andersen, 03:56-04:37)
• He is a co-owner of a company that distributes whale meat across Norway and exports some to Japan.

Notable quote:

“In 1st of January we start fishing cod...when it comes to spring, April...we start minke whale hunting...after summer we go to shipyard to repair and fix the boat. In the autumn, we fish herring.”
– Bjorn Andersen (04:17)

3. Economics of Whaling

• Cod and herring are generally more profitable than whale, but whale still provides 25% of Andersen’s income some years.
• The Norwegian government sets a quota for whales and a minimum price for fish and whale meat to stabilize income, but there are no direct subsidies.

Notable quote:

“It's about one third or one fourth of our income.” – Bjorn Andersen on whale meat profits (06:02)

4. Whale Meat Market & Quota Issues

• The main constraint on whale hunting is not government regulation but demand and distribution: "people have to buy it."
  (Andersen, 05:49-05:56)
• Whale meat prices have risen, but not sufficiently to make large-scale whaling more lucrative.

5. Ecological Rationale & Arguments for Whaling

• Andersen insists that controlled whaling helps balance marine ecosystems, preventing whales from over-consuming cod, herring, and other fish that are also valuable to humans.
• He gives current regional minke whale population estimates at 150,000 in the North Atlantic, refuting the idea that they are endangered.

Notable quote:

“If you hunt whale, you can fish more fish because you have the balance in the ecosystem.”
– Andersen (07:17)

• Andersen criticizes “Save the Whales” activism as misplaced:
  (Dubner, 11:08-12:47)

  “They don't understand the nature...They believe more on Walt Disney or something like that...Stop the plastic pollution we have now…Minke whale or whale hunting is not a problem.”
  – Andersen (11:46-12:47)

6. The Practicalities of Whaling

• Crew of six, year-round, out at sea for weeks at a time.
• Whaling is low-tech: relies on human eyesight, often spots whales using bird activity as a clue.
• The minke whale is usually solitary, but will group where food is abundant.
• Harpoon cannons are used for a quick kill; if necessary, a rifle (Remington .375) is used as backup.
• The meat and blubber are taken; bones and unused blubber are returned to the sea or consumed by birds.

Memorable exchange:

“You have to think like a whale…It’s like a chess player. You have to think some step forward. It’s a hunt.”
– Andersen (19:10-19:50)

7. Cultural Stigma and Media Relations

• Andersen laments negative media coverage: whalers are portrayed as immoral or unethical.
• Many whalers avoid journalists due to past sensationalism and perceived bias.

Notable moment:

“A lot of journalists are very bad...whalers are fed up with the bad journalists who only want to have a scoop.”
– Andersen (24:02-24:54)

8. Moral and Environmental Positioning

• Andersen self-describes as both an environmentalist and conservationist, emphasizing sustainable harvest and respect for natural cycles.
• He likens minke whale hunting to cattle slaughter, challenging the notion that marine mammal harvest is morally unique:
  (Andersen, 10:23-10:41; 25:33-26:11)
• Believes that whaling will persist and even possibly increase to support food production and ecosystem balance.

“It's to hunt an animal. It's not a nice thing to do, but it's necessary. It's good food...The minke whale have a nice free life before he meet me. Then it's over.”
– Andersen (25:33)

9. Personal Reflections & Tradition

• Andersen was an energy engineer (visited New York to study power plants), but found fishing and whaling a better lifestyle—more freedom, connected to nature.
• Younger generations are training as crew and learning the trade, continuing the tradition.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments with Timestamps

• On the importance of balance:

  “If you hunt whale, you can fish more fish because you have the balance in the ecosystem.”
  (Andersen, 07:17)

• On environmental priorities:

  “Stop the plastic pollution we have now. They should have worked for stopping plastic pollution many, many years ago...Minke whale or whale hunting is not a problem.”
  (Andersen, 11:46-12:47)

• On hunting as food production:

  “I cannot see any difference to kill a cow or kill a minke whale.”
  (Andersen, 10:23)

• On the whaler’s perspective:

  “You have to think like a whale.”
  (Andersen, 15:53 & 19:10)

• On media distrust:

  “A lot of journalists are very bad...only want to have a scoop.”
  (Andersen, 24:02)

• On the future of whaling:

  “Do you think whaling will still exist in Norway in 10 years?”
  “Yes."
  "What about 50 years?"
  “Then it will be more. It has to be.”
  (Dubner and Andersen, 25:09-25:15)

• On whale as food:

  “Would you say one or two times in the week? We have chopped whale meat. We have taco, pizza, everything.”
  (Andersen, 27:34)

• On global perceptions:

  “They believe more on Walt Disney or something like that.”
  (Andersen, 11:46)

Timeline of Important Segments

• 00:58 – 03:11: Introduction to the modern whaling landscape & Norway’s quota system
• 04:37 – 07:09: Andersen’s fishing and whaling routine, income breakdown & quota realities
• 07:17 – 09:00: Ecological arguments for whaling, minke whale population and diet
• 10:11 – 12:47: Reflections on Save the Whales movement, morality, and environmental priorities
• 13:32 – 15:25: International whaling policy, promotion of whale meat, and Andersen’s past as an engineer
• 16:19 – 19:50: Details of whaling techniques, ship and crew, locating and hunting process
• 22:28 – 23:03: Whale identification, communication, and group behavior
• 24:02 – 24:54: Why whalers dislike speaking with journalists and media portrayal issues
• 25:09 – 25:18: Predictions for the future of whaling
• 27:34 – 27:48: Whale meat in Norwegian cuisine, including raw consumption

Tone and Style

Andersen is direct, practical, and unapologetic but not combative. He brings a dry wit (comparing minke whales to cows or “lonesome cowboy” animals) and expresses some frustration with outsiders' perceptions. Dubner steers the interview with curiosity and openness, balancing challenging questions with respect for Andersen’s experience.

Final Thoughts

This episode provides rare, thoughtful access to the thinking of a contemporary whaler, offering listeners a glimpse into the lived reality, cultural heritage, and environmental rationale behind modern whaling in Norway. The conversation challenges listeners to question their own assumptions about whaling, conservation, and food consumption, while drawing clear distinctions between myth, morality, and ecological pragmatism.