Extra: A Modern Whaler Speaks Up (Update)

Summary

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Freakonomics Radio – “Extra: A Modern Whaler Speaks Up (Update)”

Episode Date: August 27, 2025
Host: Stephen J. Dubner
Guest: Bjorn Andersen (Norwegian whaler and fisherman)

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Episode Overview

In this bonus episode, Stephen Dubner expands on Freakonomics Radio’s whaling series by finally securing an interview with a modern-day commercial whaler: Bjorn Andersen of Norway. With most whalers reluctant to engage the media, Andersen gives a rare firsthand perspective on the practicalities, economics, and environmental ethics of contemporary whaling—contrasting public sentiment and activism with lived experience aboard a whaling vessel.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background on Modern Whaling

• The heyday of global commercial whaling has passed; today it survives mainly in Norway, Iceland, and Japan.
• Of the 1,400 minke whales permitted for harvest in Norway annually, fewer than half are actually taken, reflecting reduced demand for whale products.
  (Dubner, 00:58-03:11)

2. Bjorn Andersen’s Story

• Andersen lives in Lofoten, Norway, and comes from a long line of fishermen and whalers.
• His annual cycle: cod fishing (January), whaling (spring-summer), boat repairs (late summer), herring fishing (autumn).
  (Andersen, 03:56-04:37)
• He is a co-owner of a company that distributes whale meat across Norway and exports some to Japan.

Notable quote:

“In 1st of January we start fishing cod...when it comes to spring, April...we start minke whale hunting...after summer we go to shipyard to repair and fix the boat. In the autumn, we fish herring.”
– Bjorn Andersen (04:17)

3. Economics of Whaling

• Cod and herring are generally more profitable than whale, but whale still provides 25% of Andersen’s income some years.
• The Norwegian government sets a quota for whales and a minimum price for fish and whale meat to stabilize income, but there are no direct subsidies.

Notable quote:

“It's about one third or one fourth of our income.” – Bjorn Andersen on whale meat profits (06:02)

4. Whale Meat Market & Quota Issues

• The main constraint on whale hunting is not government regulation but demand and distribution: "people have to buy it."
  (Andersen, 05:49-05:56)
• Whale meat prices have risen, but not sufficiently to make large-scale whaling more lucrative.

5. Ecological Rationale & Arguments for Whaling

• Andersen insists that controlled whaling helps balance marine ecosystems, preventing whales from over-consuming cod, herring, and other fish that are also valuable to humans.
• He gives current regional minke whale population estimates at 150,000 in the North Atlantic, refuting the idea that they are endangered.

Notable quote:

“If you hunt whale, you can fish more fish because you have the balance in the ecosystem.”
– Andersen (07:17)

• Andersen criticizes “Save the Whales” activism as misplaced:
  (Dubner, 11:08-12:47)

  “They don't understand the nature...They believe more on Walt Disney or something like that...Stop the plastic pollution we have now…Minke whale or whale hunting is not a problem.”
  – Andersen (11:46-12:47)

6. The Practicalities of Whaling

• Crew of six, year-round, out at sea for weeks at a time.
• Whaling is low-tech: relies on human eyesight, often spots whales using bird activity as a clue.
• The minke whale is usually solitary, but will group where food is abundant.
• Harpoon cannons are used for a quick kill; if necessary, a rifle (Remington .375) is used as backup.
• The meat and blubber are taken; bones and unused blubber are returned to the sea or consumed by birds.

Memorable exchange:

“You have to think like a whale…It’s like a chess player. You have to think some step forward. It’s a hunt.”
– Andersen (19:10-19:50)

7. Cultural Stigma and Media Relations

• Andersen laments negative media coverage: whalers are portrayed as immoral or unethical.
• Many whalers avoid journalists due to past sensationalism and perceived bias.

Notable moment:

“A lot of journalists are very bad...whalers are fed up with the bad journalists who only want to have a scoop.”
– Andersen (24:02-24:54)

8. Moral and Environmental Positioning

• Andersen self-describes as both an environmentalist and conservationist, emphasizing sustainable harvest and respect for natural cycles.
• He likens minke whale hunting to cattle slaughter, challenging the notion that marine mammal harvest is morally unique:
  (Andersen, 10:23-10:41; 25:33-26:11)
• Believes that whaling will persist and even possibly increase to support food production and ecosystem balance.

“It's to hunt an animal. It's not a nice thing to do, but it's necessary. It's good food...The minke whale have a nice free life before he meet me. Then it's over.”
– Andersen (25:33)

9. Personal Reflections & Tradition

• Andersen was an energy engineer (visited New York to study power plants), but found fishing and whaling a better lifestyle—more freedom, connected to nature.
• Younger generations are training as crew and learning the trade, continuing the tradition.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments with Timestamps

• On the importance of balance:

  “If you hunt whale, you can fish more fish because you have the balance in the ecosystem.”
  (Andersen, 07:17)

• On environmental priorities:

  “Stop the plastic pollution we have now. They should have worked for stopping plastic pollution many, many years ago...Minke whale or whale hunting is not a problem.”
  (Andersen, 11:46-12:47)

• On hunting as food production:

  “I cannot see any difference to kill a cow or kill a minke whale.”
  (Andersen, 10:23)

• On the whaler’s perspective:

  “You have to think like a whale.”
  (Andersen, 15:53 & 19:10)

• On media distrust:

  “A lot of journalists are very bad...only want to have a scoop.”
  (Andersen, 24:02)

• On the future of whaling:

  “Do you think whaling will still exist in Norway in 10 years?”
  “Yes."
  "What about 50 years?"
  “Then it will be more. It has to be.”
  (Dubner and Andersen, 25:09-25:15)

• On whale as food:

  “Would you say one or two times in the week? We have chopped whale meat. We have taco, pizza, everything.”
  (Andersen, 27:34)

• On global perceptions:

  “They believe more on Walt Disney or something like that.”
  (Andersen, 11:46)

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Timeline of Important Segments

• 00:58 – 03:11: Introduction to the modern whaling landscape & Norway’s quota system
• 04:37 – 07:09: Andersen’s fishing and whaling routine, income breakdown & quota realities
• 07:17 – 09:00: Ecological arguments for whaling, minke whale population and diet
• 10:11 – 12:47: Reflections on Save the Whales movement, morality, and environmental priorities
• 13:32 – 15:25: International whaling policy, promotion of whale meat, and Andersen’s past as an engineer
• 16:19 – 19:50: Details of whaling techniques, ship and crew, locating and hunting process
• 22:28 – 23:03: Whale identification, communication, and group behavior
• 24:02 – 24:54: Why whalers dislike speaking with journalists and media portrayal issues
• 25:09 – 25:18: Predictions for the future of whaling
• 27:34 – 27:48: Whale meat in Norwegian cuisine, including raw consumption

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Tone and Style

Andersen is direct, practical, and unapologetic but not combative. He brings a dry wit (comparing minke whales to cows or “lonesome cowboy” animals) and expresses some frustration with outsiders' perceptions. Dubner steers the interview with curiosity and openness, balancing challenging questions with respect for Andersen’s experience.

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Final Thoughts

This episode provides rare, thoughtful access to the thinking of a contemporary whaler, offering listeners a glimpse into the lived reality, cultural heritage, and environmental rationale behind modern whaling in Norway. The conversation challenges listeners to question their own assumptions about whaling, conservation, and food consumption, while drawing clear distinctions between myth, morality, and ecological pragmatism.

Transcript

[Stephen Dubner]

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[Stephen Dubner]

T Mobile has the best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Ookla of speed test intelligence data 1H 2025 CT mobile.com network hey there, it's Stephen Dubner. We just republished a three part series called Everything you never knew about whaling. We spoke with economists, historians, Moby Dick scholar, and an environmental activist whose mission in life is to stop whale hunting. We also tried to speak with a whale hunter, but public sentiment against whaling is so strong that most modern wh want to speak with the press. Also, there just aren't that many whalers around anymore. In the 1960s, at the peak of industrial whale hunting, thousands of whalers in more than a dozen countries were killing tens of thousands of whales a year. Today, commercial whaling happens in only three countries, Norway, Iceland and Japan, and collectively they only kill about a thousand whales a year. There just isn't much demand for whale meat, it turns out, and even less demand for whale oil. Anyway, we couldn't get a modern whaler to go on the record with us. But then, right as we were finishing our series, we landed our white whale, Bjorn Andersen, one of the biggest whalers in Norway. The Norwegian government allows for the harvest of 1400 Minka whales a year. The minka is plentiful. It's not at all an endangered species. Even so, Anderson and his fellow whalers usually take less than half of the of the allowed quota each year. Like I said, just not much demand for whale meat these days. When we caught up with Anderson back in 2023, he just finished his whaling season. In the conversation you're about to hear, he tells us why he loves hunting whales and how he does it, why harvesting whales is important to maintaining the supply of fish, and why he thinks that in the future there will be more whale hunting and not less. That's coming up on this bonus episode of Freakonomics Radio. Starting now.

[Bjorn Andersen]

This is Freakonomics Radio, the podcast that explores the hidden side of everything with your host, Stephen Dubner.

[Stephen Dubner]

Okay, Bjorn, it's Steven. You can hear me okay?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Yes, I hear you.

[Stephen Dubner]

I'm sorry to interrupt your holiday. Yes, you're on holiday in Sweden?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Yes, I am outside Sudarham in the middle of Sweden. We have to go to my wife's home place.

[Stephen Dubner]

And what do you do when you're there on holiday?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Cutting grass.

[Stephen Dubner]

Do you do any fishing?

[Bjorn Andersen]

No, is holiday now.

[Stephen Dubner]

Where in Norway do you live?

[Bjorn Andersen]

In Lofoten. In the westly part of Lofoten. On the water. We live on small islands.

[Stephen Dubner]

Is that where you grew up?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Yes.

[Stephen Dubner]

Did you grow up in a fishing family?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Yes, my father was a fisherman and whale hunter.

[Stephen Dubner]

And can you tell me about your work? Now you're mostly a fisherman and then you whale during the whale season?

[Bjorn Andersen]

In 1st of January we start fishing code. When it comes to spring, April or something like that, we start milky whale hunting and that go on to the summer. After summer we go to shipyard to repair and fix the boat. And in the autumn we fish herring.

[Stephen Dubner]

So of the three things that you catch, mostly cod, whale and herring, which makes you the most money?

[Bjorn Andersen]

It depends. Cod and herring are this year the best.

[Stephen Dubner]

How was your whale season this year? How many whales did you get?

[Bjorn Andersen]

111 whale.

[Stephen Dubner]

Wow. Holy cow. So you alone are responsible for like 25% of all the whales taken in Norway this year? Yeah, yeah. So 111. How many trips was that?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Four trips.

[Stephen Dubner]

Can you describe how you sell it then? Who do you sell it to?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Well, it's a company I'm co owner in. And then we distribute it to all the Norway to the stores. We export some whale to Japan.

[Stephen Dubner]

One thing that confuses me is I read that the Norwegian quota for minka whale in a year is 1000, but that all of you collectively, all the whalers only take like five or six hundred in a year. So why are you not getting up to the quota? Is it just not worth it? Are there not enough whalers?

[Bjorn Andersen]

It's a problem to distribute and get it in the store everywhere and people have to buy it.

[Stephen Dubner]

What about the price of whale meat over the past few years? It goes up, it goes down. Where is it?

[Bjorn Andersen]

No, it's going up, but not in that speed. We want the price of whale meat have rised every year almost, but not enough. It's about one third or one fourth of our income.

[Stephen Dubner]

Does the government subsidize fishing and whaling?

[Bjorn Andersen]

No.

[Stephen Dubner]

Not at all?

[Bjorn Andersen]

No.

[Stephen Dubner]

Are there any price guarantees for the fish or the whale that you catch?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Yes, all fisheries in Norway have a guarantee. Minimum price. It's regulated by law.

[Stephen Dubner]

Is it usually sold for more than that anyway?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Yes, often it's over the minimum price.

[Stephen Dubner]

But the minimum price is useful to you just in case the prices fall?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Yeah, it's useful for everybody because you don't have those ups and downs. Everybody are jealous on our fishermen today because it has been quite good to be a fisherman in the last 20 years now because we have had quite good quotas and. Good morning.

[Stephen Dubner]

So what would happen to you if Norway decided that they don't want to allow anyone to hunt whales anymore?

[Bjorn Andersen]

If they do, they are crazy. Some years from now there will be no cod or no herring to fish because there are so many whales. That's the food for the whale. Mickey Whale is an opportunist. We eat even salmon and cod and herring and everything. If you hunt whale, you can fish more fish because you have the balance in the ecosystem.

[Stephen Dubner]

Do you know how many minka whales there are in the world?

[Bjorn Andersen]

The latest number is 150,000.

[Stephen Dubner]

In the world?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Not in the world. In the North Atlantic I saw a.

[Stephen Dubner]

Number, this was a few years ago that said there were maybe half a million of Antarctic minka stocks. Does anyone talk about the minka whale as endangered at all?

[Bjorn Andersen]

That must be people who don't know anything about the sea. Because if you are going to the coast of Norland and Troms and Finnmark, you can see minke whale and humpback and fin whale all the spring and summer. In the autumn, if you number out how much minke whale eat, if there are 150,000 minke whales, it will be about 50 to 60,000 ton each day of fish. They have studied the numbers of how much the sea animal, including birds and everything, eats. In a year it's 25 million tons of food and the fishermen only take 4 million ton.

[Stephen Dubner]

When you get the whale, you bring the whale on board the boat and you open up the stomach. What do you find in the stomach of a minka whale?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Everything. It could be Salomon, it could be cod, it could be herring.

[Stephen Dubner]

What does a modern day whaler think of the Save the Whales movement that's coming up? I'm Stephen Dubner, this is Freakonomics Radio. Be right back.

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[Stephen Dubner]

Okay. I'm Steven Dubner. Let's get back to my conversation with Bjorn Anderson, a Norwegian fisherman and whale hunter. So do you think the Save the Whales movement that started in the 1970s, do you think it's gone too far? That there are too many whales that are eating too much of the fish supply that people eat?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Yes, it will come to that soon.

[Stephen Dubner]

So when someone says to you, Bjorn, I like whales, I don't want any whales to be killed, what do you say to them?

[Bjorn Andersen]

No, I don't like to kill them. It's for food. A minke whale is very close related to a cow because the minke whale has four stomach. So I cannot see any difference to kill a cow or kill a Mickey whale.

[Stephen Dubner]

The entire commercial whaling industry, Norway, Japan, Iceland, wherever kills only about 1,000 whales a year. But hundreds of thousands of whales are dying every year from plastic pollution and noise pollution and boat strikes. And most of all from getting caught up in fishing gear. But it seems that most of the protest by environmental activists is directed at you, at the commercial whalers. Why do you think that is?

[Bjorn Andersen]

It's humans bad conscience due to environmental stuff.

[Stephen Dubner]

Do you consider yourself an environmentalist?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Yes.

[Stephen Dubner]

Do you think of yourself as a conservationist?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Yes. I think it's common sense. If you harvest nature, you have to make sure that there are growing up things to hunt or to harvest next year.

[Stephen Dubner]

So what do you say to someone who thinks that they are being a perfect moral person, right. And says that no one should ever kill whales?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Get some understanding of the nature. It's simple like that. They don't understand the nature they believe. More on Walt Disney or something like that. I have not so much to say about that because I'm just fed up with them. They are so wrong in many, many places. Stop the plastic pollution we have now. They should have worked for stopping plastic pollution many, many years ago. And even petrol. The global warming is also a big issue. We don't know what's happening in the years to come. They should have done more work on those issue which really become a problem for us. Minke whale or whale hunting is not a problem. It was a problem for the whale some years, many years ago. Now it's no problem with the whale stock.

[Stephen Dubner]

Do you think the International Whaling Commission did a good job years ago when they tried to Regulate the number of whales that could be killed.

[Bjorn Andersen]

They didn't do their job.

[Stephen Dubner]

Why not?

[Bjorn Andersen]

They are an organization based on the scientific comit. And the scientific committee said there was enough milke whale so they should have given out quota on milke whale. But they didn't.

[Stephen Dubner]

So what would happen if everyone in the world were allowed to hunt minke whale starting next year? Would that be a problem for the minke whale population?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Of course. You have to do a regulation. You have to count them. You have to give out quota and do it sustainable.

[Stephen Dubner]

I've read that whalers wanted the fisheries ministry in Norway to promote whaling and whale meat, but that it didn't work. That they were worried that trading partners would get upset. Do you know anything about that?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Yes. I was one of those who wanted him to respond on that, but he didn't.

[Stephen Dubner]

Have you ever been to the U.S. bjorn?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Yes.

[Stephen Dubner]

Where did you go?

[Bjorn Andersen]

New York.

[Stephen Dubner]

Yeah, that's where I am. Did you like New York?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Yes, because I study engineering. High power electricity engineering. So we was visit Con Edison in New York.

[Stephen Dubner]

And you were working as an engineer then?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Yes.

[Stephen Dubner]

Who did you work for?

[Bjorn Andersen]

NOS Khidr. It was a power plant. Yes, we produced about 3% of Norwegian electricity.

[Stephen Dubner]

So why did you stop working as an engineer and become a full time fisherman?

[Bjorn Andersen]

It's a much better way of life. You are free and you are out. You can see the nature, you can see whales, you can see other fish and you can feel the weather, bad weather or good weather in a much better way than you do in an office.

[Stephen Dubner]

When you came to New York, did you go into the rural areas at all or just the city?

[Bjorn Andersen]

No, we were just in New York.

[Stephen Dubner]

Okay, so if you had gone upstate into New York, you would see a lot of deer. And in the US some species of deer are considered a nuisance animal for a lot of reasons. They eat crops, they spread disease, they cause car crashes. And so hunting of deer is encouraged. There's a season and there's a limit. Do you see the minka whale as sort of a nuisance animal like that?

[Bjorn Andersen]

No. It's a source of food. But you have to try to balance the ecosystem as good as you can because then it will produce the most. We have to harvest our resources in a sensible way. If you don't shoot whale, the ecosystem will collapse sooner or later.

[Stephen Dubner]

After the break, how exactly does Bjorn Andersen harvest those resources?

[Bjorn Andersen]

You have to think like a whale.

[Stephen Dubner]

I'm Stephen Dubner, this is Freakonomics Radio. We'll be right back. Welcome back. I'M speaking with Bjorn Anderson, a Norwegian fisherman and whale hunter. Tell me about your ship. How big is the ship? What's it called?

[Bjorn Andersen]

The boat is called Reinebooen and is a 32 meter long steel boat.

[Stephen Dubner]

And the name of the boat? Reinebooen, what does that mean?

[Bjorn Andersen]

My father was grown up on Reine. It's a place in Lofoten, Reineboen. It's like a man who live on that place.

[Stephen Dubner]

Did you grow up wanting to be a whaler when you were a kid?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Yes, I was five years. First time I saw a whale was shot. It was very excited.

[Stephen Dubner]

Why did you get talked into becoming an engineer then?

[Bjorn Andersen]

They were stopped in the whale hunting, so I didn't know what to do.

[Stephen Dubner]

This was in 1986 when the International Whaling Commission put a moratorium on commercial whaling. But in 1992 Norway announced it would resume hunting minke whales in defiance of of that ban. Anderson, who was by then working as an engineer for a power company, was able to get back to his first love.

[Bjorn Andersen]

I think that was a very good decision because the culture and the know how starting to disappear and it could be very hard for the coastal people here in Norway.

[Stephen Dubner]

Do you have kids, Bjorn?

[Bjorn Andersen]

No.

[Stephen Dubner]

Do you have young crew members that are going to become like you? A whaling boat captain?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Yes. They just finished school and they started to onboard a ship and learn to catch whale or fish. Some are good or some are bad.

[Stephen Dubner]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're good.

[Bjorn Andersen]

Yes. My father, he learned me everything. You have to have a good interest in what you're doing. And it's whatever you do, if you don't have the interest, you will be not so good.

[Stephen Dubner]

What about the crew size on your boat?

[Bjorn Andersen]

We are six people all the year.

[Stephen Dubner]

They work for you year round? The same six?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Yeah.

[Stephen Dubner]

Do they live in your town?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Nearby.

[Stephen Dubner]

What's the longest you're ever gone from land then?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Two, three, four weeks. We have been on the north side of Spitsbergen, almost 81 degrees north.

[Stephen Dubner]

When you're out on the water, can you describe how you locate the Minka whale?

[Bjorn Andersen]

We only use our eyes.

[Stephen Dubner]

Wow. No sonar, nothing like that?

[Bjorn Andersen]

No, nothing. It's the best equipment we have.

[Stephen Dubner]

Okay, so what are you looking for?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Looking for the whale.

[Stephen Dubner]

You're not looking for birds or a spout?

[Bjorn Andersen]

The birds as well, they often give away where the whale are. So we know to use all the nature.

[Stephen Dubner]

And how often does the minke whale breach?

[Bjorn Andersen]

It's three to five minutes and then they come up and blow three times. We try to get close to the whale and try to think out where it's possible, where the whale go. You have to think like a whale. It's like a chess player. You have to think some step forward. It's a hunt. You have to get close to it because we don't shoot long distances. Just a 30 or 40 meter or something like that or closer.

[Stephen Dubner]

And describe the harpoon.

[Bjorn Andersen]

The harpoon is 70 millimeter, but the barrel on the Canon is 60 millimeter. So it's a big hole where the harpoon hits the whale. In the front of the harpoon we have of course the ground out. You explode inside a whale.

[Stephen Dubner]

So how fast does that kill the whale then?

[Bjorn Andersen]

It's instant if you don't kill it, maybe make it unconscious. And then we kill it with the rifle.

[Stephen Dubner]

And what kind of rifle do you use for that?

[Bjorn Andersen]

It's American rifle. 375 Remington.

[Stephen Dubner]

Just so I'm clear, the grenade, that's at the end of the harpoon in.

[Bjorn Andersen]

The front of the harpoon.

[Stephen Dubner]

Where do you aim on the whale for the head? The heart in the chest. And then if it doesn't succeed in killing the whale, then you kill it with the rifle? Yes.

[Bjorn Andersen]

Yeah.

[Stephen Dubner]

And then how do you get it on the boat?

[Bjorn Andersen]

We have a strong wire we put on the tail and then we pull it up on the deck with a winch.

[Stephen Dubner]

And how big are they?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Could be up to 10 meters.

[Stephen Dubner]

What does it weigh? 15, 20,000 pounds?

[Bjorn Andersen]

I don't know about pounds. It's up to 8, 9 ton.

[Stephen Dubner]

So you get it on the boat with the winch. What happens now? Who butchers it and so on?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Oh, it's the crew cutting off the blubber and the meat. And then we put bone back to the sea.

[Stephen Dubner]

What do you do with the blubber?

[Bjorn Andersen]

We gave it to the birds.

[Stephen Dubner]

Okay, so the oil is not worth anything?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Not for now. It's a very healthy oil. We haven't managed to get any good system for taking the oil.

[Stephen Dubner]

Do they travel solo or in groups?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Both. But very often the Mickey whale is a lonesome cowboy. They travel individually, but when they come to places where there are a lot of food, there could be very many.

[Stephen Dubner]

Does the minka whale ever try to attack the boat?

[Bjorn Andersen]

No.

[Stephen Dubner]

Some whales do, yeah.

[Bjorn Andersen]

No, no, it's more like accidents. You know, you have some YouTube clip where a humpback guy jump up and fall down on a sailing boat or something like that, but I don't think he's attack. It's just an accident.

[Stephen Dubner]

Yeah, I see. Have you read Moby Dick?

[Bjorn Andersen]

No, I'm not a reader.

[Stephen Dubner]

When you see a whale breach, how can you tell if it's a minka whale or maybe some other kind of whale?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Oh, it's like to see the difference on a horse and a pig. Maybe you can mix them up if you are from New York or something like that, but not crew on the whaleboat.

[Stephen Dubner]

Do you ever hear the whales communicating or singing?

[Bjorn Andersen]

You could sometimes. You can hear the white whales and sometimes humpback.

[Stephen Dubner]

If Norway were to allow the hunting of other species of whale, which ones would you want to hunt?

[Bjorn Andersen]

I have enough with minke whale because we have to have bigger boats and other equipment to hunt bigger whales.

[Stephen Dubner]

We spoke with someone in Japan who said that one reason that some whalers there still hunt whales is because the world tells them they can't. And I'm curious if that's the same for you in Norway.

[Bjorn Andersen]

That's stupid. Yes, that's stupid. I already said you have to harvest in a sustainable way is stupid.

[Stephen Dubner]

Bjorn, we've been working on this series about the history and economics of whaling for about six months, and you are the first whaler who agreed to speak with us. Why do you think that whalers are so reluctant to speak about whaling?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Oh, I have had a lot of journalists on board a ship and there are many bad journalists who only want to have the big scoop. You know, want us to say something they could put together so they could make a scoop or something like that. A lot of journalists are very bad. That's a pity. When I watch the news, I have a big question, science. Is this true or not? Because I've experienced many bad journalists, but also some good, I think people, the whalers are fed up with the bad journalists who only want to have a scoop.

[Stephen Dubner]

And when you say they want a scoop, what does that mean? It means they want to make you look bad. It means they want to make you look like you don't have morals.

[Bjorn Andersen]

Yeah, something like that.

[Stephen Dubner]

Do you think whaling will still exist in Norway in 10 years?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Yes.

[Stephen Dubner]

What about 50 years?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Then it will be more. It has to be.

[Stephen Dubner]

You say it has to be to protect the fish stock, you say?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Yes. And to produce food enough for the people on the planet.

[Stephen Dubner]

Is there anything we didn't talk about that we should. Is there anything I didn't ask you that I should have or anything you just want to tell me about? No, no, it's enough. You've had enough of me?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Yes. I hope people in United States will understand that it's to hunt an animal. It's not a nice thing to do, but it's necessary. It's good food. It's not nice to see a cow been killed, not even a chicken. You never get allowed to see that. The minke whale have a nice free life before he meet me. Then it's over.

[Stephen Dubner]

All right, Bjorn, thank you very much. I appreciate your talking to us and I enjoyed speaking with you. Thank you. And thanks to you for listening to this conversation more than with the Norwegian whaler Bjorn Andersson. If you want to learn more about the modern whaling industry, I recommend you listen to part two of our whaling series. It's called why Do People Still Hunt Whales? And while you're at it, you can listen to episodes one and three. Also, we will be back soon with another episode of Freakonomics Radio. Until then, take care of yourself. And if you can, someone else too. Freakonomics Radio is produced by Stitcher and Renbud Radio. You can find our entire archive on any podcast app, [e-mail] where we publish transcripts and show notes. This episode was produced by Zach Lipinski. It was mixed by Greg Rippon with help from Jeremy Johnston. The Freakonomics Radio Network staff also includes Alina Coleman, Augusta Chapman, Dalvin Abuaji, Eleanor Osborne, Ellen Frankman, Elsa Hernandez, Gabriel Roth, Morgan Levy, Jasmine Klinger, Sarah Lilly and Teo Jacobs. Our theme song is Mr. Fortune by the Hitchhikers, and our composer is Luis Guerra. As always, thanks for listening. How many times a week or a month do you eat whale?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Would you say one or two times in the week? We have chopped whale meat. We have taco pizza, everything.

[Stephen Dubner]

Do you ever eat it raw?

[Bjorn Andersen]

Yeah. Yeah. Tartar. It's very good. The Freakonomics Radio Network the hidden side of Everything.

[Stephen Dubner]

Stitcher.