Episode Overview

Podcast: Freakonomics Radio
Episode: Steve Levitt Quits His Podcast, Joins Ours
Air Date: January 21, 2026
Main Theme:
This episode offers an in-depth, candid exit interview with Steve Levitt, co-author of Freakonomics and host of "People I (Mostly) Admire" (PIMA), as he prepares to end his show and join the Freakonomics Radio roster as an occasional host. Stephen Dubner guides a reflective conversation covering Levitt’s journey in podcasting, his changing relationship with curiosity and engagement, educational innovation, favorite interviews, the role of AI in learning, and his evolving priorities and philosophy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Levitt’s Decision to End "People I (Mostly) Admire"

• Why End PIMA?
  • Levitt explains he hasn't run out of people to admire—"there are endless people I admire" (02:46)—but the show is ending because he wants to prioritize new ventures, particularly in education.
  • Levitt emphasizes the significant time and effort required for thorough preparation, which became unsustainable weekly. Switching to every-other-week was better, but ultimately other passion projects are calling (12:43).

“My dilemma is that I have so many amazing possibilities out there for things to do that I never get done.” (12:43, Steve Levitt)

Evolution as a Podcast Host and Interviewer

• Reluctant Beginnings:
  Levitt recounts how Dubner “tricked” him into podcasting, beginning with guest hosting Freakonomics Radio on math and education. After a nerve-wracking Rahm Emanuel interview, he realized he could handle tough guests (08:32).
• Impact of Podcast on Personal Growth:
  • Levitt went from rarely reading to investing deeply in guests’ work, gaining new discipline through deadlines.
  • “I would frequently be up until 3 or 4 in the morning trying to pull together some kind of set of themes...” (11:21)

Levitt’s Shift: From Creating Knowledge to Consuming and Sharing Ideas

• He describes a transition from his academic focus on producing new knowledge to enjoying the consumption and synthesis of others’ insights.
• Reading and interviewing invigorated his curiosity.

Education Reform and Levitt Lab

• Genesis of Passion for Education:
  • Sparked by a Freakonomics Radio guest spot and especially an interview with Sal Khan on mastery learning (13:59).
  • Now opening new schools (Levitt Lab) focused on engagement and mastery-based learning (12:43, 13:53).
• The Flaws of Traditional Schooling:
  • Levitt denounces the "rat race" of grades and box-ticking that drains joy from even high-performing students, recounting his own experience at Harvard as a disengaged box-checker (17:32).
• How He Pitches the School:
  • Draws on insights from David Yeager (16:02), focuses on directly speaking to students about the failures of conventional education.

“We all have been selling you a complete set of lies. We’ve been telling you that if you work hard... you’ll have a great career. And it’s all a set of lies. Because ... what we’re teaching kids doesn’t make sense by the time they get to high school and nobody’s engaged.” (16:06, Steve Levitt)

Celebrating a Wider Range of Success

• Broadening Achievement:
  • At Levitt Lab, students are encouraged to pursue and celebrate a diverse set of accomplishments—music, filmmaking, writing, and more—not just grades or standardized accolades (19:15).

AI in Education: Both Promise and Peril

• Levitt’s Take on AI:
  • AI can massively empower engaged learners, but for disengaged ones, it’s a perfect tool to avoid learning.

“If you are an engaged learner... there's never been a tool like AI ... to learn quickly. If you are unengaged ... there has never been a tool as effective as AI ... to get by without learning a single thing.” (22:32, Steve Levitt)

• Key Variable: Engagement:
  Engagement, not content or technology, is now the educational linchpin.

Reflections on Podcasting, Favorite Guests, and Human Connection

Personal Growth and Social Dynamics

• Podcasting as Connection:
  The show allowed Levitt, a self-proclaimed introvert, unique opportunities to form deep connections (27:55).

“This has really been my primary way of making real connections.” (33:55, Steve Levitt)

Memorable Interviews (Highlighted with Timestamps)

1. His Daughters, Amanda and Lily (Ep. 46) (31:34):
   • An unexpectedly moving conversation offering a unique connection.
2. BJ Miller (End-of-Life Specialist) (32:12):
   • Focused on death and meaning, conducted without reference to Miller’s visible disability to shift the tone.
3. Wendy MacNaughton (Artist) (33:55):
   • Sudden, deep rapport across disciplines; an interview that surprised both participants.
4. Yuval Noah Harari (34:31):
   • Challenged Harari on his impersonal style; led to an open, novel exchange (highlighted is the lack of characters in Sapiens).
5. Contrasting Guests:
   • Harari vs. Jared Diamond (38:19):
     • Harari offered unpredictable, thoughtful responses; Diamond repeated prepared material.
   • Richard Dawkins (39:33):
     • Difficult at first—Dawkins wasn’t familiar with Freakonomics—but ultimately rewarding, culminating in a live event that didn’t go as Levitt hoped.
   • Arnold Schwarzenegger (41:55):
     • Schwarzenegger stayed on script, but Levitt managed to break through briefly by recalling a memorable campaign moment (43:21).

The Value and Reality of Interviewing

• Preparation is everything: “There’s no substitute for hard work. You can have very little talent for interviewing, but … if you’ve really prepared, it can still go pretty well.” (35:29)
• Levitt admits that failed interviews weigh heavily on him, especially when he feels he let guests down (38:56).

Moving to Freakonomics Radio as a Co-Host

Motivation and Editorial Hopes

• Excited to tackle policy and topics with the broader Freakonomics platform’s reach (45:25).
• Hopes to leverage the format for real-world impact on issues like AI in education, academic incentives, and pharmaceutical innovation (47:12).

“I have a handful of people policy ideas that I think are really important and I love the idea of pursuing them through the Freakonomics Radio format with the hope that really I can make an impact.” (47:12, Steve Levitt)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Podcasting’s Personal Impact:

  “Every idea that I have just put out there, I have stolen from one of my guests and repackaged it in my own words.” (27:55, Steve Levitt)

• On Just-in-Time vs Just-in-Case Learning:

  "Everything we do in school is, oh, well, we’re going to teach you proofs about triangles because maybe you’re going to, in 15 years, be an architect and somehow need this. Of course, that doesn’t work … versus just-in-time learning, where somebody really needs to know something to solve some problem, so they learn it." (28:16, Steve Levitt)

• On Human Connection:

  "My favorites almost always involve episodes that have a human connection, because as we’ve been hinting at, I have very few human connections outside of this podcast." (33:55, Steve Levitt)

• On Personal Introversion:

  "What do you want for your birthday? ...I would like everyone to go away and I have a week where I didn’t talk to a single person and nobody bothered me for a week. That would be my dream." (30:41, Steve Levitt)

• Levitt on Quitting:

  "Well, you know, one thing I’m glad is that I finally quit something on time because I always wait until too long like everybody else does." (48:36, Steve Levitt)

Important Timestamps

• 02:16 – Opening banter, setting up the context of PIMA’s final episode.
• 03:14 – Levitt discusses dream guests and the challenge of booking.
• 05:39 – Levitt’s anecdote about spiritual awakening in India.
• 08:17 – Overview of Levitt’s arc as a podcast host.
• 13:53 – The story of starting Levitt Lab and the pull toward educational reform.
• 16:02 – How Levitt pitches unconventional education directly to students.
• 19:15 – The problem with the reward structure in traditional education.
• 22:32 – Levitt details the dual-edged nature of AI in learning.
• 27:55 – Reflections on personal growth, connection, and what he learned from guests.
• 31:31 – Most memorable guests: Daughters, BJ Miller, Wendy MacNaughton, Yuval Noah Harari.
• 41:55 – The challenges of interviewing celebrities like Arnold Schwarzenegger.
• 45:25 – Announcement of Levitt joining as occasional Freakonomics Radio host.
• 47:12 – Discussion of future topics Levitt aspires to cover in his new role.
• 48:36 – Concluding reflections on quitting and journey with PIMA.

Tone and Language

Throughout the conversation, both hosts maintain their signature mix of warmth, skepticism, self-deprecation, and humor. Levitt is candid, freely admitting insecurities, mistakes, and surprising himself with growth. Dubner is supportive, curious, and occasionally teasing—together, their chemistry evokes a mix of old friends reflecting and expert interviewers probing for insight.

Conclusion

This episode is both a thoughtful farewell and an optimistic handoff. Steve Levitt’s honest reflection on his own journey—both as a podcaster and as an advocate for changing education—offers listeners not only a behind-the-scenes look at podcasting, but also provocative ideas about learning, engagement, and personal growth. Expect Levitt’s voice and curiosity to feature in future Freakonomics Radio episodes, with a promise to tackle big issues with his signature blend of analytic rigor and openness.