Podcast Summary: "The Democrats Can't Outrun the Woke" with Sasha Stone

Overview

In the May 13, 2025 episode of Free Thinking Through the Fourth Turning, host Sasha Stone delves into the pervasive influence of "wokeness" within the Democratic Party. Stone argues that the entrenchment of progressive ideologies has not only alienated various demographics but is also contributing to the party's decline. Through a combination of his own analysis and insights from guests like Lionel Shriver, Francis, Helen Joyce, and notable public figures, Stone paints a picture of a party struggling to balance its progressive base with broader electoral appeal.

1. The Entrenchment of Wokeness in the Democratic Party

Stone opens the discussion by asserting that the Democratic Party is unable to distance itself from "woke" ideologies, a movement that began subtly around 2013. He contends that this has led to the development of a militant base that prioritizes ideological purity over pragmatic politics.

“The left controls faster than you can say, holy woketopia, Batman. That fear that has crippled all of them surprised me.” [00:00]

Stone emphasizes that this rigid adherence to "wokeness" has created generations of individuals who struggle to function outside their ideological comfort zones, ultimately harming the party's viability.

2. Polarization and the Cost of Conformity

Guest Lionel Shriver discusses the inherent challenges of resisting societal pressures to conform. She suggests that the "conformist gene" may be evolutionarily advantageous, making it difficult for dissenters to thrive.

Lionel Shriver: “I think that the conformist gene is actually in your interest.” [01:33]

Francis adds to this by highlighting the "free rider problem," where individuals rely on others to act against undesirable trends, delaying necessary confrontations until the issues become unmanageable.

Francis: “If no one wrote an anti lockdown column ever, we might still be in lockdown.” [01:55]

The conversation underscores the societal shift towards conformity, where speaking out against prevailing ideologies can lead to ostracization or personal repercussions.

3. The Role of Media and Social Platforms

Stone recounts the case of film critic Sean O'Connell, who faced severe backlash and professional jeopardy after his negative review of Pixar's Turning Red. Despite his apologies, O'Connell continued to receive harassment, illustrating the toxic environment for dissenting opinions.

Sean o' Connell: “I am genuinely sorry for my Turning Red review...” [05:14]

This incident exemplifies how social media amplifies punitive responses against those who deviate from accepted narratives, discouraging honest discourse and critical analysis.

4. The Decline of Free Speech and Open Dialogue

The podcast features voices like David Hogg and Piers Morgan, who discuss the stifling effects of cancel culture and the fragmentation it causes within political parties. Hogg critiques the self-justifying mechanisms individuals use to maintain their self-perceived moral superiority, such as denying racism or blaming societal issues.

David Hogg: “They refuse. And it's to the point now where DJT is saying that he doesn't know if he needs to follow the Constitution.” [15:08]

Piers Morgan and other guests argue that the Democratic Party's inability to foster open debate and address internal conflicts is leading to its erosion.

Piers Morgan: “If we, the Democratic Party continue to say actually we're going to force it down your throats, you're going to like them no matter what. We will continue to lose.” [15:28]

5. Historical Parallels and the Surveillance State

Stone draws historical comparisons between the current state of the Democratic Party and past authoritarian movements, citing the Cultural Revolution in China and the Komsomol in the Soviet Union. He warns that the deep-seated nature of wokeness resembles totalitarian systems that seek to eliminate personal autonomy and enforce ideological conformity.

Stone: “What we call wokeness isn't going away anytime soon. It is nothing less than everything that defines the New Left...” [25:51]

This section emphasizes the potential dangers of unchecked ideological movements and the loss of individual freedoms in pursuit of a homogenized societal vision.

6. The Future of the Democratic Party and Potential Solutions

Mark Halperin joins the discussion to highlight the urgent need for the Democratic Party to engage in meaningful public debates about critical issues such as gender, values, and policy. He argues that without addressing these internal conflicts, the party is poised to continue losing electoral ground.

Mark Halperin: “If the Democrats don't have it, they'll lose again.” [24:17]

Stone echoes this sentiment, suggesting that the party's failure to adapt and address its internal "wokeness" is leading to a disconnect with the electorate, particularly among men.

7. Conclusion: The Path Forward

Stone concludes by reflecting on the long-term implications of the Democratic Party's current trajectory. He suggests that the deep-rooted nature of wokeness makes it unlikely to fade away, drawing bleak comparisons to historical totalitarian regimes. However, he maintains a glimmer of hope that movement and backlash, such as the rise of MAGA, might eventually counterbalance the pervasive influence of wokeness.

Stone: “Sooner or later, that power will be challenged by a frustrated majority who are sick of being told they're not good enough...” [29:54]

He calls for renewed efforts to reconnect with a broader voter base and restore balance within the party to prevent further decline.

Notable Quotes with Attribution and Timestamps

• Sacha Stone [00:00]: “The Democrats can't outrun the woke. They can't even name it, let alone abandon it.”

• Lionel Shriver [01:33]: “The conformist gene is actually in your interest... It's not in your interest to indulge that immunity socially and professionally.”

• Sean o' Connell [05:14]: “I really appreciate your feedback... And after his apology, the tweets that flooded in continued to punish him.”

• Henry Sisson [10:01]: “Being woke is not cool anymore at all... The only problem with the woke stuff these days is the only people that are left are these crazy motherf*kers.”

• David Hogg [12:44]: “They have villainized the concept and the word woke to the point where... what are we doing here, folks?”

• Piers Morgan [15:20]: “If we, the Democratic Party continue to say actually we're going to force it down your throats, you're going to like them no matter what. We will continue to lose.”

• Mark Halperin [24:17]: “If the Democrats don't have it, they'll lose again... we have to have the conversation... if we can't figure out how to fix that, it's going to be very difficult for them to turn things around.”

Final Thoughts

Sasha Stone's episode "The Democrats Can't Outrun the Woke" presents a critical examination of the Democratic Party's current challenges with progressive ideologies. By intertwining personal analysis with perspectives from various guests, Stone paints a comprehensive picture of a party at a crossroads. The episode serves as a call to action for the Democratic Party to reassess its strategies and engage in open, honest dialogues to reconnect with a broader electorate and ensure its future viability.

For more insights and detailed discussions, visit sashastone.substack.com.