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Sacha Stone
Hi, welcome to Free Thinking through the fourth Turning. My name is Sacha Stone. The Democrats can't outrun the woke. They can't even name it, let alone abandon it. Whatever it is we did to kids that started around 2013 has led to whole generations of freaked out, delusional cult members who can barely function now when things don't go their way. There is no turning it around. There is no changing what so many of them believe. This militant army worked well for the Democrats, but I do wonder if any of them looked at Kenosha or Portland and thought, what have we done? Because so many adults were too afraid to confront the problem until the problem grew up and joined the workforce. That power is out now and it is destroying the Democratic Party, not to mention everything else. The left controls faster than you can say, holy woketopia, Batman. That fear that has crippled all of them surprised me. I didn't know so many would be so willing to conform, to stay quiet, to say nothing, or else join the mob and pick up a Stone. I don't know, I guess I thought there would be more like me, people who were willing to stand up and push back. Lionel Shriver talks about this personality type while on a recent episode of the Trigonometry podcast.
Lionel Shriver
But it is not in your interest to indulge that immunity socially and professionally. You will only suffer. I think that the conformist gene is actually in your interest. And other than. Even on an evolutionary level.
Francis
Yes. Other than it's the free rider problem, which is you can only do that as long as someone says something sufficiently so that the thing you actually don't want to happen stops happening. If no one wrote an anti lockdown column ever, we might still be in lockdown. Right. And so this is, I guess the, the, the, the, the opposite side of the argument I made earlier, which is someone does have to say something.
Lionel Shriver
Yes.
Francis
And I guess what, you know, Francis and I, I think, are both very stubborn about things like that. And the reason for me is that you said it's being ahead of your time. I don't think it's about time. It's being ahead of the mob, ahead of the crowd.
Lionel Shriver
Yes.
Francis
It's getting it before most people get it is what tends to get you in. And I guess the question is how does one process those decisions? Or do you think it's ultimately, it's like you're wired this way so you're gonna say the thing that you're gonna say.
Lionel Shriver
I think Francis is right. It's a matter of temperament and it's not entirely in our control. And there are people who are.
Francis
To.
Lionel Shriver
Give them the benefit of the doubt, are naturally self protective enough to keep their heads down or to mouth whatever it is you're supposed to be mouthing now, and they get through. That is their nature. That's not our nature. I don't think it's your nature either.
Francis
I think that's fair to say, Lionel. I think it's fair to say I have a lot of scars to show up for it.
Helen Joyce
Yes.
Lionel Shriver
And I know what kind of people I like to hang out with. Yeah. And the best part of this period, you know, we all hate the word woke and we all end up having to use it. So the whole the best thing about the woke thing has been that a variety of individuals have distinguished themselves and have put their reputations at risk and have been willing to stake out lonely positions just for the sake of staking out a position that they believe in, not necessarily to benefit from it. And little by little, I mean, this is where a lot of podcasting has come from. It has been people providing a forum for dissenters, the people who are mouthing the latest, whatever. They don't need it for them. The whole world is there for them. So podcasts have been a way for people like me or Helen Joyce, for example, with the transgender thing. And I was just telling you, I really enjoyed Jeremiah Forstetter interview. She was great. It's been a very important form to make sure that in an ideological monoculture, other voices can be heard.
Sacha Stone
Speaking of mania, I'll never forget how a film critic named Sean o' Connell once wrote a film review about Pixar's Turning Red. He didn't particularly like the movie because he wrote from his perspective, Normie white dude. The attacks came fast and hard, from young Asian girls who begged for representation in movies to the scolds on Twitter. And then came the agonizing op eds. By the end of it, he didn't lose his job, but he almost did. He had to apologize and take down the review. It went all the way to this for podcast listeners From March of 2022 from Variety, turning Redcast speaks up after Controversial Review was called Racist and pulled offline and a tweet by Sean o' Connell, I'm genuinely sorry for my Turning Red review. Thank you to everyone who has reached out with criticism, no matter how harsh. It is clear that I didn't engage nearly enough with the movie, nor did I explain my point of view well at all. I really appreciate your feedback. And even after his apology. The tweets that flooded in continued to punish him for not liking what is not a very good movie in the first place, about a 12 year old girl getting her period. He was being honest, as film critics are supposed to do. Not anymore. For podcast listeners, a series of tweets. Romeo Candido, you're just apologizing because you're scared of being canceled and called out for the narrow POV you have and what little influence you have left. Leave your original tweet up so people like me who have felt seen by this filmmaker since Bow can be reminded of why stories matter. And from Terry Hart, do you understand how damaging that tweet was? How much this is rooted in problems with systemic isms in film criticism? Why women haven't been able to see themselves represented in movies. You host a movie podcast with two other white men, you have access to many others. And from Stargirl, maybe next time instead of trying to relate to the character of a 12 year old girl, you could just enjoy the movie. Hating anything related to girls and women is really getting old. And from Chris Pangolin, thanks for the apology, but maybe you should review your review and re watch the film with a better mindset. And from J of the dead, from a 45 year old white male. You were way off. Not once while watching Turning Red did I think, oh, this isn't for me. I'm not a Scottish princess. I love Brave. I'm not Mexican, I love Coco, I'm not black. I love Soul. You found it exhausting. I didn't want it to end. And from Megan Coyle, we watched it three times today. It's a fantastic movie and completely relatable. We love the Asian culture we had the pleasure of seeing intimately. My daughter and I had many feels at the end. This line. Absolutely atrocious. I am not in it. This was exhausting, really pathetic. They even escalated it and asked him to name names. From Mello, tag the editor who approved your review. If you got to get criticized, at least tag the person who approved it, as they are just as culpable. And Sean o' Connell writes, nah, it's on me. I wrote it, completely rushed through it. No matter the circumstances, it all comes back to me. Putting my name on something that wasn't publishable. My mistake alone. Sean o' Connell should have stood up to them. He should have done what I did. Every time they came for me, you turn around and you flip them the double bird. It isn't that hard. Yes, you will lose almost everything, but in return you will gain your self respect. But if they can't even tell the truth in a film review back in 2022, how could they possibly fix what is wrong with any of it? From Hollywood to the Democratic Party, send in the dude Bros Foreign. It's obvious to everyone the Democrats are repelling men. All men, young men, old men, black and Hispanic men. They've decided the reason for that is the woke crap that many can't stand but will never admit out loud. Here is a tiktoker you want to.
Henry Sisson
Know something interesting I've noticed about the modern world, mate? Being woke is not cool anymore at all. I wonder where it all went wrong. Maybe it was the destroying people's property, maybe fighting people, cutting off family members, calling everyone you don't like and disagree with a fascist or some shit. Conservative stuff used to be like the lame opinions. Oh church, I want to have sex with people. What do you mean? But now being woke means like straight up rejecting reality. I'm in the music business, the wokest f cking industry. Good luck trying to say anything political that's not like completely left wing. Even having like a centrist opinion will make you a devil. I can't remember the last time I saw someone being woke. As you know, protesting some and I've gone that's lit. Yeah dude, that's cool. That's culture. The only problem with the woke stuff these days is the only people that are left are these crazy motherf ckers who try and hunt you down because you have bad opinions. Apparently like the amount of threats on my life I get in my DMs per day doesn't affect me because I'm a straight up psychopath. But if I did care and I had like a family, kids, a house, stuff to protect and I wasn't a 23 year old artist who flies around does random, I'd probably be afraid. But to be fair, I'm not really afraid of left wing guys and girls or they thems or blep that.
Sacha Stone
They say they've gotten the message. Now they figure they don't have to do much like offer the public a way out of the madness that has afflicted their party and thus all of the cultural, corporate and educational institutions they control. No, it's a messaging problem, not a policy problem. They only have to dispatch a few mascubros to get the talking points out that they hate the woke crap too, but they still want to be good people and do the right thing. Unlike the other half of the country who are bad people and don't want to do the right thing. It's easy to spot the likely paid influencers on TikTok who almost look normal until they start parroting the talking points of the madness of the left. And then, just like that, we're sucked back into the crazy. For podcast listeners, a TikTok video I don't know who the f ck the.
Matt Walsh
Tolerant left is, but it sure as shit ain't me.
Sacha Stone
I am not a nice person and I have slapped the shit out of.
Matt Walsh
People for far less than telling me that the people that I love shouldn't have basic human rights.
Mark Halperin
Stop playing with me.
Sacha Stone
Oh, it isn't as bad as the women who dominate the party and TikTok. If I spend too much time surfing that algo, as I often do for research, I come out of it thinking, is that really what became of it all? 30 years of progressivism, feminism and activism and it ends with delusion and mania. Here are some crazy TikTokers.
David Hogg
They have villainized the concept and the word woke to the point where when the people that are aware and awake to the things that are going on around us are telling you and sounding the alarm bells and because they villainized it, you won't listen to us. You refuse. And it's to the point now where DJT is saying that he doesn't know if he needs to follow the Constitution. And that terrifies me and it terrifies me that it does not terrify you. What are we doing here, folks? Although it may be shocking, a lot of races genuinely believe they are good people. And here are the top five ways they try to convince themselves it's true. Number one, when they're called out, instead of taking accountability for their actions, they simply blame the person who accused them they didn't do anything wrong. In fact, the other people are being sensitive and they are a good person, so therefore they can't possibly say anything racist. Number two, by leaning heavily into cognitive dissonance. You don't know Cognitive dissonance is when you have two conflicting beliefs that creates discomfort in someone, so they have to either change one of their two beliefs that they can coexist without the person feeling overwhelmed. So instead of being like, oh, I am racist, I should stop being racist, they're like, oh, actually I am a good person and what I said wasn't racist so that they can balance it out. Number three, by leaning on their racist friends for validation. I think this one's pretty self explanatory. Number four, by blaming woke culture as a whole for the reason that they have been called out because they couldn't possibly do anything wrong. It must be a societal problem. Just because you did not vote for Donald Trump does not mean that you are no longer racist. Not voting for Donald Trump is the bare minimum. It is like the starting ground for not being racist. There's still so much work to be done in this world to make sure that racism no longer exists. And it starts with white people making sure that they are constantly learning and figuring out how to hold themselves against accountable for anything racist that they could possibly do.
Sacha Stone
Influencer Henry Sisson has emerged as a supposedly brotastic anti woke Democrat. On Pierce Morgan, would you say, Harry, you've been dewoked?
Piers Morgan
Have I been? It's a good question, Pierce. I don't think I've been like de woke.
Francis
You've had a complete personality transplant.
Sacha Stone
You've just. It sounds like wokeism has been sucked out of you.
Piers Morgan
Piers. I think that people like yourself and Gavin Newsom and Bill Maher and other people in the Democratic party are right. We lost badly. We lost the House, we lost the Senate, we lost the presidency. And things won't change unless we change. So people have made their voices clear that they don't like the wokeism, they don't like the cancel culture, they don't like the progressive left, they don't like the far left policies. And if we, the Democratic Party continue to say actually we're going to force it down your throats, you're going to like them no matter what. We will continue to lose and Donald Trump will continue to thrive. And J.D. vance or Marco Rubio in four years from now will be the next president of the United States.
Sacha Stone
Then there was David Hogg on Bill Maher pretending it's possible to bring some sanity to the party so young men can get laid and have fun.
Sean O'Connell
Right now, what I think happened last election is younger men, they would rather vote for somebody who feels who even if they don't completely agree with, they don't feel judged by then somebody who they do agree with that they feel like they have to walk on eggshells around constantly because they're going to be judged or ostracized or excommunicated. And what's interesting about this moment is it feels like the two parties in some senses have flipped where, you know, Republicans used to be the judgmental assholes in many ways. And since many Democrats, despite us, I would say for most of us coming from the right place of wanting to do the right thing, we've created a culture where we say, well, if you say the wrong thing, you're excommunicated. And that's just not how human beings work. Nobody is perfect. But ultimately what we have to do here is figure out how to bring people back in and work towards the bigger goal of advancing the future of this country and helping young people especially get by so that they're able to focus on their lives and, you know, getting with a young woman or something like that. Instead of how are they going to pay their rent, for example, or how are they working their two jobs, young people should be able to focus on what young people should be focused on, which is how to get laid and how to go and have fun.
Sacha Stone
Perhaps it's a good strategy. Just give those who can't stand the wokeness a reason not to worry about it anymore. For podcast listeners, a tweet from Kathy wtf? I like David Hogg. Suddenly, reactions like that might help them accomplish their goal of bringing people back to the party, especially men. But I doubt it. Matt Walsh is correct when he says they were never cool.
Matt Walsh
And this is a new form of wokeness that has emerged. It's called dark woke. And the media is very excited about it. They're very excited about this. This is perhaps the answer to countering Donald Trump and maga. They've not been able to come up with an answer over 10 years. What's their answer? And they think they've finally landed on it and they're calling it Dark Woke. And now the New York Times has a long think piece on the topic headline what is Dark Woke? Democrats are trying out a new attitude. It's provocative, edgy, and perilously toeing the line of not being too offensive. Sounds exciting. Provocative, edgy. It's been a long time since we got anything like that on the left. Anything that could be called provocative or edgy from the left. So here's what the article says. There was a time last summer when the Democratic Party was cool. Kamala Harris had just stepped in as Democrat Party nominee for president. In the waning days of Brat Summer, she went on the popular podcast Call her Daddy Tim Walls outdoorsy drip led to a chapel roan inspired camo trucker hat. The memes were flowing and the party's mood was high. Now, just to cut in here, we haven't even gotten to Dark Woke yet. But just to cut in just for a moment to clarify. Editor's note, the Democratic Party was not cool during that time. Okay, so you say that there was a time last summer when the Democrat Party was Cool. No, there wasn't. That time didn't exist. No, it thought it was cool, but that's a very different thing. In fact, thinking you're cool and being cool are not only different things, but like, opposite things. Or I should say the Democratic Party was trying hard to be cool, and that was all the memes and the trucker hat and the brat summer stuff and this and that and whatever it was with the coconut Tree and the TikTok videos. I don't even know trying hard to be cool. But being cool and trying hard to be cool are definitely opposite things. The essence of being cool is not trying to be cool, right? That's like the paradox of coolness is that the moment you try to be it, you aren't it. The only people who can be cool are people who aren't trying to be cool. Every attempt fails. By definition. Cool is perhaps. It's like a riddle. It's like, what's the one thing you can become but cannot try to become? And that's cool. You know, someone can become cool, they can be cool, but you can't try. You can't attempt it. You can't say, you know what? I'm gonna give being cool a shot. Let's try this out. Let's give this a spin already. You're not cool. No matter what happens next, you're not cool just because of the way that you approached it.
Sacha Stone
Ultimately, their reality disconnect prevents them from ending their ongoing mass hysteria. Take this piece at Daily Cause. Yes, it still exists, shockingly, by this person. Note the pronouns in bio. Muriel View, she, her, she, her writes. I will remind David Hogg that it is not the Democratic Party judging people. If I recall correctly, it was Republicans who attacked AOC for dancing, Harris for laughing, LGBTQIA folks for existing drag queens for reading books. It is the Republicans who are banning books from black authors, LGBTQIA authors, books about civil rights, and even banning words in some states. Hell, they'll have scrubbed the word diversity and respect from some sites. It is not the Democratic Party removing anything, pictures, books, achievements from every existing institution in the U.S. even artifacts in museums. It is not the Democrats judging breastfeeding mothers or sexual activities of non straight people. It is not the Democrats judging how people dress. It is not the Democrats firing generals and other elected officials for a trans person. It is not Democrats planning to ban porn. It is not Democrats taking down the image of a plane because the name of a plane was gay edited. The plane was named after the pilot's mother, Enola Gay the story about the Enola Gay from back in March was part of a preliminary poll done electronically that flagged certain words that might unearth woke content. That didn't mean Pete Hegseth banned it. As with the children's book by Julianne Moore, it was put in the to be looked at pile. But that didn't stop the headlines. For podcast listeners, a series of headlines Pete Hegseth targeting gay plane Now Dear Pentagon officials, the Enola Gay is not gay, It's a plane Military to remove Enola Gay photos for violating DEI rules Pentagon wipes records of famed World War II plane Enola Gay named after a pilot's mom because DEI is dead if you see that many headlines hitting your feed and it's spread far and wide by your friends and people you trust and admire, why wouldn't you believe it? And if they are being misled to that degree, how can they ever be expected to pull themselves out of it? And if they are not telling us the truth but just trying to hurt Trump, how can we trust them? For podcast listeners, a tweet from Bad Hombre breaking DNC Vice Chair David Hogg has been ousted from his position after a late night vote. Despite considerable last minute lobbying from Tim Walls and James Carville, Hogg now holds the record as the shortest tenure of a Vice chair of the dnc. After all that, they dumped him anyway. Lesson learned, eh David? The Democrats have become so afraid of blowback that they have to try to get their message out anonymously. But do they ever ask themselves, how can we possibly address the needs of the people if we are that afraid of our own party? Recently, Mark Halperin spoke for them in an attempt to force the Democrats to the table to confront some of it.
Mark Halperin
The next presidential election is not that far away. And that presidential election, the Democrats, regardless of who they nominate, how strong or weak that person is, regardless of who the Republicans nominate. The people I talk to, many of whom have high experience in Democratic politics at the presidential level, they say if our party can't have a public debate about these issues of gender, of of of values, of policy, of the history of Kamala Harris, Joe Biden and Bobby Kennedy, if we can't have that public conversation, we are doomed to lose. And the gap between how much that conversation is occurring even in private, let alone in public, and the need to have it is vast. Parties that lose, particularly party that loses to someone like Donald Trump, who they detest and don't understand, have to have a full conversation. They can't have their head in the sand or their or their face up against the TV screen watching msnbc. They have to have the conversation. This isn't an anti Democrat conversation I'm talking about here. In fact, it's a pro Democrat conversation because if the Democrats don't have it, they'll lose again. I've seen lots of aftermaths in all the elections I've covered. Whenever one party loses the White House, there are post mortems, there are conversations, their meetings. The gap again between the conversation the Democrats need to have, in the view of my sources and the one they're having is massive. And if they can't figure out how to fix that, it's going to be very difficult for them to turn things around.
Sacha Stone
Why they're stuck with it. Wokeness isn't a fad like a tramp stamp tattoo you mature your way out of, then seek to remove. This goes deep, probably deeper than anyone ever knew back in 2012 and 2013, when the whole of Society effort began unfolding in schools, in institutions and online to gently introduce critical race theory as a new way of seeing ourselves in the world. All of the nation's school kids were thrown to the wolves while most of us were busy making other plans. We coddled them, we kept them inside to keep them safe, but we were not watching what was happening in the classrooms. It turns out that they needed protection from the very people who who were supposedly keeping them safe. We left them on sites like Tumblr, YouTube, and TikTok. We were not watching what the algorithms were doing to their brains, hooking them on dopamine, which would then require medication later, where they could not control their own words and feelings. Chasing that high, we left them to charismatic influencers who lured them into surveillance culture that made it seem perfectly normal to rat out your friends and monitor what social media posts they like, what we can say, what we can laugh at. Whether a person voted for Trump or not, whether they are friends with someone who voted for Trump or not. Those efforts paid off with an army of newly awakened or awoken young people feverishly plotting out the new rules in the secret corners of the Internet. And probably no one figured out they would amass an army of activists, protesters and zealots. But here we are. They remain as devoted and militant as the Red Guard amid the Cultural Revolution in China, or Hitler's Youth, or the Komsomal in the Soviet Union. Zhang Hongbing's mother lies meters from the spot where she was executed in the Cultural Revolution, the years of upheaval and destruction, Mao unleashed claimed perhaps a million lives. Even so, Fang Zhongmo's case stands out. It was her zealous teenage son who denounced her as a counter revolutionary. As early as 1918, the Bolsheviks used youth organisations to indoctrinate young people. The Komsomol was much more serious and had a more active role in the distribution of propaganda to workers and peasants. They attacked religion and class enemies. The Komsomol were amongst the most fanatical enthusiastic Communists, and by 1928 there were 2 million Komsomol members. It was an exclusive club. Many applicants were rejected due to immaturity or lack of proletarian social origins. They played a hugely significant role in the cultural revolution between 1929-1940 and later in the Great Patriotic War. So what we call wokeness isn't going away anytime soon. It is nothing less than everything that defines the New Left, including the entire platform of the Democratic Party. It's why Kamala Harris was chosen as the Veep, and why no one could leapfrog over her, no matter how weak of a candidate she was. And it's why no white male will be allowed to rise in 2028. Hope and change the utopia in the early days of the Obama presidency felt like a new world. Maybe it was for a time.
Lionel Shriver
Or.
Sacha Stone
Maybe it was just a story we told ourselves. What was it all really about? Were we just useful idiots serving some global world order that needed to usher in totalitarianism in a time of mass surveillance? That's what Matthias Desmond said on his substack. Ultimately, it's about the rising surveillance state will be a tragedy for the human being again. I hear some already saying, but if you have nothing to hide, then it's not a problem that there is surveillance everywhere. Such reasoning starts from a naive view on man and the world. The human being is a creature that can only thrive if it has a space where it can momentarily free itself from the control of another, among other things, in order to make choices that are truly its own. It is in making subjective choices that the very essence of a human being emerges and exists. Totalitarianism is a system driven by a frantic desire for control aimed at eliminating the space of subjective choice. In this way, totalitarianism destroys the essence of the human and indeed represents the ultimate evil. Human beings cannot be completely free, for example. They will always have to adhere to ethical principles in some way, but they absolutely need a certain freedom. Some will undoubtedly protest here as well. But if freedom leads to climate catastrophes, then we can't tolerate it. I will Go deeper into this another time. But I want to emphasize this here. Believe me, the last thing the surveillance state will do is save the climate. End quote. All I know is that utopias can't last. No one explained it better than Milan Kundera in the book Laughter and Forgetting, which I have cited often because it describes so perfectly what we all just lived through. Totalitarianism is not only hell, but all the dream of paradise. The age old dream of a world where everybody would live in harmony, united by a single common will and faith, without secrets from one another. Andre Breton too dreamed of this paradise when he talked about the glass house in which he longed to live. If totalitarianism did not exploit these archetypes which are deep inside us all and rooted deep in all religions, it could never attract so many people, especially during the early phases of its existence. Once the dream of paradise starts to turn into reality, however, here and there people begin to crop up who stand in its way. And so the rulers of paradise must build a little gulag on the side of Eden. In the course of time, this gulag grows ever bigger and more perfect, while the adjoining paradise gets even smaller and poorer. The problem for the Democrats is that you can't be the side with all the power and also the side that sees itself as morally superior. Sooner or later, that power will be challenged by by a frustrated majority who are sick of being told they're not good enough to be allowed inside. MAGA will have to find a way to come together to stop them in the midterms and for the foreseeable future, until they can shake themselves out of the mania that has crippled them, destroyed every great thing they ever built, and raise generations who have no idea what is even real anymore. Thank you for listening to my podcast, sashastone.substack.com and remember to thine own self be true.
Helen Joyce
Me and all my friends we are all misunderstood they say we stand for nothing and there's no way that we ever would now we see everything that's gone wrong with the world and those who need it we just feel like we don't have the means to rise above and be dead so we keep waiting Waiting on the world to change Keep on waiting Waiting on the world to change it's hard to beat the system when we're standing at a distance so we keep on waiting, waiting Waiting on the world to change now if we had the power to bring our neighbors home from war they would have never missed a Christmas. No more ribbons on the door. When you trust your television, what you get is what you got when they own the information you know they can bend it all they want that's why we're waiting Waiting on the world to change Keep on waiting Waiting on the world to change it's not that we don't care we just know that divided fair so we keep on waiting Waiting on the world to change oh, no, no, no we keep on waiting Waiting Waiting on the world to change Keep on waiting, Waiting Waiting on the world to change One day our generation is gonna rule the population so we keep on waiting waiting Waiting on the world to change no, we keep on waiting Waiting, waiting Waiting on the world to change Keep on waiting, Waiting Waiting on the world to change Waiting on the world to change Waiting on the world to change Waiting on the world to change It.
Podcast Summary: "The Democrats Can't Outrun the Woke" with Sasha Stone
Overview
In the May 13, 2025 episode of Free Thinking Through the Fourth Turning, host Sasha Stone delves into the pervasive influence of "wokeness" within the Democratic Party. Stone argues that the entrenchment of progressive ideologies has not only alienated various demographics but is also contributing to the party's decline. Through a combination of his own analysis and insights from guests like Lionel Shriver, Francis, Helen Joyce, and notable public figures, Stone paints a picture of a party struggling to balance its progressive base with broader electoral appeal.
1. The Entrenchment of Wokeness in the Democratic Party
Stone opens the discussion by asserting that the Democratic Party is unable to distance itself from "woke" ideologies, a movement that began subtly around 2013. He contends that this has led to the development of a militant base that prioritizes ideological purity over pragmatic politics.
“The left controls faster than you can say, holy woketopia, Batman. That fear that has crippled all of them surprised me.” [00:00]
Stone emphasizes that this rigid adherence to "wokeness" has created generations of individuals who struggle to function outside their ideological comfort zones, ultimately harming the party's viability.
2. Polarization and the Cost of Conformity
Guest Lionel Shriver discusses the inherent challenges of resisting societal pressures to conform. She suggests that the "conformist gene" may be evolutionarily advantageous, making it difficult for dissenters to thrive.
Lionel Shriver: “I think that the conformist gene is actually in your interest.” [01:33]
Francis adds to this by highlighting the "free rider problem," where individuals rely on others to act against undesirable trends, delaying necessary confrontations until the issues become unmanageable.
Francis: “If no one wrote an anti lockdown column ever, we might still be in lockdown.” [01:55]
The conversation underscores the societal shift towards conformity, where speaking out against prevailing ideologies can lead to ostracization or personal repercussions.
3. The Role of Media and Social Platforms
Stone recounts the case of film critic Sean O'Connell, who faced severe backlash and professional jeopardy after his negative review of Pixar's Turning Red. Despite his apologies, O'Connell continued to receive harassment, illustrating the toxic environment for dissenting opinions.
Sean o' Connell: “I am genuinely sorry for my Turning Red review...” [05:14]
This incident exemplifies how social media amplifies punitive responses against those who deviate from accepted narratives, discouraging honest discourse and critical analysis.
4. The Decline of Free Speech and Open Dialogue
The podcast features voices like David Hogg and Piers Morgan, who discuss the stifling effects of cancel culture and the fragmentation it causes within political parties. Hogg critiques the self-justifying mechanisms individuals use to maintain their self-perceived moral superiority, such as denying racism or blaming societal issues.
David Hogg: “They refuse. And it's to the point now where DJT is saying that he doesn't know if he needs to follow the Constitution.” [15:08]
Piers Morgan and other guests argue that the Democratic Party's inability to foster open debate and address internal conflicts is leading to its erosion.
Piers Morgan: “If we, the Democratic Party continue to say actually we're going to force it down your throats, you're going to like them no matter what. We will continue to lose.” [15:28]
5. Historical Parallels and the Surveillance State
Stone draws historical comparisons between the current state of the Democratic Party and past authoritarian movements, citing the Cultural Revolution in China and the Komsomol in the Soviet Union. He warns that the deep-seated nature of wokeness resembles totalitarian systems that seek to eliminate personal autonomy and enforce ideological conformity.
Stone: “What we call wokeness isn't going away anytime soon. It is nothing less than everything that defines the New Left...” [25:51]
This section emphasizes the potential dangers of unchecked ideological movements and the loss of individual freedoms in pursuit of a homogenized societal vision.
6. The Future of the Democratic Party and Potential Solutions
Mark Halperin joins the discussion to highlight the urgent need for the Democratic Party to engage in meaningful public debates about critical issues such as gender, values, and policy. He argues that without addressing these internal conflicts, the party is poised to continue losing electoral ground.
Mark Halperin: “If the Democrats don't have it, they'll lose again.” [24:17]
Stone echoes this sentiment, suggesting that the party's failure to adapt and address its internal "wokeness" is leading to a disconnect with the electorate, particularly among men.
7. Conclusion: The Path Forward
Stone concludes by reflecting on the long-term implications of the Democratic Party's current trajectory. He suggests that the deep-rooted nature of wokeness makes it unlikely to fade away, drawing bleak comparisons to historical totalitarian regimes. However, he maintains a glimmer of hope that movement and backlash, such as the rise of MAGA, might eventually counterbalance the pervasive influence of wokeness.
Stone: “Sooner or later, that power will be challenged by a frustrated majority who are sick of being told they're not good enough...” [29:54]
He calls for renewed efforts to reconnect with a broader voter base and restore balance within the party to prevent further decline.
Notable Quotes with Attribution and Timestamps
Sacha Stone [00:00]: “The Democrats can't outrun the woke. They can't even name it, let alone abandon it.”
Lionel Shriver [01:33]: “The conformist gene is actually in your interest... It's not in your interest to indulge that immunity socially and professionally.”
Sean o' Connell [05:14]: “I really appreciate your feedback... And after his apology, the tweets that flooded in continued to punish him.”
Henry Sisson [10:01]: “Being woke is not cool anymore at all... The only problem with the woke stuff these days is the only people that are left are these crazy motherf*kers.”
David Hogg [12:44]: “They have villainized the concept and the word woke to the point where... what are we doing here, folks?”
Piers Morgan [15:20]: “If we, the Democratic Party continue to say actually we're going to force it down your throats, you're going to like them no matter what. We will continue to lose.”
Mark Halperin [24:17]: “If the Democrats don't have it, they'll lose again... we have to have the conversation... if we can't figure out how to fix that, it's going to be very difficult for them to turn things around.”
Final Thoughts
Sasha Stone's episode "The Democrats Can't Outrun the Woke" presents a critical examination of the Democratic Party's current challenges with progressive ideologies. By intertwining personal analysis with perspectives from various guests, Stone paints a comprehensive picture of a party at a crossroads. The episode serves as a call to action for the Democratic Party to reassess its strategies and engage in open, honest dialogues to reconnect with a broader electorate and ensure its future viability.
For more insights and detailed discussions, visit sashastone.substack.com.