Fresh Air — How Trump's EPA Head Has Transformed the Agency — and Sided With Polluters
Original Air Date: April 29, 2026
Host: Terry Gross
Guest: Elizabeth Kolbert, Pulitzer Prize-winning environmental journalist, staff writer at The New Yorker
Main Topic: The dramatic transformation of the EPA under Trump’s EPA Administrator Lee Zeldin—its implications for public health, climate regulation, science, politics, and the future of environmental protection in America.
Episode Overview
This episode explores how Lee Zeldin, Trump’s appointed head of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), has orchestrated radical changes leading to the gutting of the agency’s scientific foundations, major regulatory rollbacks, and an open alignment with polluting industries. Terry Gross speaks with Elizabeth Kolbert about the dismantling of the EPA’s research arm, aggressive deregulatory moves—especially the rescinding of the “endangerment finding” on greenhouse gases—political pressures and purges inside the agency, and the broader consequences for science, public health, and the climate crisis.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. EPA Staff Revolt and Retaliation
[00:15 – 03:33]
- In summer 2025, more than 150 EPA staff sent a letter to Lee Zeldin voicing 5 core concerns:
- Hyper-partisanship: Zeldin’s public communications targeted political enemies and delegitimized previous efforts as “a scam”.
- Scientific Dismantling: Announcement to dismantle the Office of Research and Development (ORD), the agency's 1,500-person scientific research arm.
- Pro-industry Bias: Repeated moves to side with polluters over public and environmental health.
- Toxic Workplace: Top-down policies echoing Project 2025’s stated aim to “put employees of the federal government in trauma.”
- Retaliatory Response: Most signatories were put on administrative leave or lost pay; several were fired.
- “Many employees felt that they had successfully been put in trauma, that that was not an appropriate way to run an agency.” (Elizabeth Kolbert, 02:57)
2. Mission Creep: Whose Agenda Does the EPA Serve?
[03:33 – 04:59]
- Kolbert stresses: The EPA’s mission is to “protect public health and the environment,” not to implement a president’s political agenda.
- There has always been a “tug of war” between regulatory interests, but the current leadership has moved that needle unprecedentedly toward industry.
3. The Dismantling of Scientific Research in Government
[04:59 – 07:47]
- ORD Eliminated: The decentralized, independent Office of Research and Development was “eliminated over the objections of Congress.”
- Its crucial roles:
- Horizon scanning for emerging environmental threats.
- Assessing dangers of new chemicals/setting standards.
- Running the Integrated Risk Information System—hated by industry.
- Replacement: A nominal, much smaller office within EPA headquarters, lacking independence.
- “Gold standard science in the Trump administration seems to mean science that backs up what we want to do.” (Elizabeth Kolbert, 07:47)
4. The Endangerment Finding: Keystone Scrapped
[08:22 – 13:49]
- Background:
- The “endangerment finding” (Massachusetts v. EPA, 2007) ruled EPA must regulate greenhouse gases if they're dangerous.
- It underpins all subsequent federal action on climate.
- Zeldin’s EPA revoked this finding—unprecedented even among prior GOP heads.
- Zeldin’s defense: On the Ruthless podcast:
- “This has been referred to as basically driving a dagger into the heart of the climate change religion…repealing it will be the largest deregulatory action in the history of America.” (Lee Zeldin, 12:48)
- Implications:
- If upheld in court, would cripple the ability of any future administration to regulate greenhouse gases under the Clean Air Act.
- Already being litigated, likely heading to the Supreme Court.
5. Science vs. “Climate Change Religion” and Economic Narratives
[13:49 – 19:32]
- Zeldin uses language that frames climate activism as faith, not science.
- Kolbert notes Zeldin’s past was not dogmatically anti-science, but now he “speaks of driving a dagger through the heart of the climate change religion.” (14:19)
- Kolbert: “We have a government … denying actually its existence, even at the upper levels…we are hurtling into a very, very hot and dangerous future … we’re just sticking our heads in the sand.” (15:48)
- Economic arguments are skewed:
- Administration claims $1.3T savings if regulations are repealed—but own analysis shows possible $1.4B in new costs (e.g., gasoline expenditure).
- Cost–benefit analyses now exclude tallying health/life-saving benefits:
- “They’ve literally eliminated the calculation of lives saved on a monetary basis, saying that it’s too uncertain…” (Elizabeth Kolbert, 17:13)
- Doesn’t account for skyrocketing insurance or the economic costs of climate itself.
6. Rollback Strategy Outpaces the Courts
[20:18 – 26:02]
- Lawsuits against these changes are slow; policy dismantling is immediate.
- Kolbert, quoting former EPA administrator William K. Reilly:
- “They had a very shrewd strategy, move fast and break things. And by the time the courts catch up, you can’t put Humpty Dumpty back together again…You can’t reassemble all the people.” (Kolbert quoting Reilly, 25:23)
- The loss of institutional memory and expertise is likely irreparable.
7. Legal Battles: What Qualifies as “Pollutant”?
[26:02 – 28:34]
- Debate centers on the Clean Air Act’s wording—doesn't mention “climate change”; was intended to be forward-looking.
- Trump administration’s argument: only pollutants with local effects count, not global ones like CO2.
- “People who worked on the Clean Air Act...would say that it was designed to be very forward looking...but the court is going to settle this question.” (Elizabeth Kolbert, 28:08)
8. Parallel Attacks on Scientific Agencies
[30:21 – 32:15]
- The National Science Foundation’s independent advisory board was also terminated.
- Grants frozen or rescinded—a signal “we don’t value science.”
- “To live in a highly technological world...and say that we are just not interested in science anymore…we are putting ourselves at a competitive disadvantage.” (Kolbert, 31:06)
9. Fossil Fuel Interests, Lobbyists, and Political Payback
[32:15 – 34:26]
- Fossil fuel executives raised ~half a billion dollars for Trump after he promised it was worth their while.
- Kolbert: “The fossil fuel industry has, I think, to use an untechnical term, made out like bandits under this administration.” (32:57)
- Clean energy and offshore wind projects canceled, with refunds to companies and a clear pro-fossil fuel pivot.
10. Lock-in of Polluting Infrastructure & Energy “Dominance”
[39:36 – 41:30]
- New “pillar” of the EPA: not public health, but “restoring American energy dominance.”
- EPA promoting new fossil fuel pipelines/power plants—a process that will “lock in” infrastructure for decades.
- “They are trying to actually put as much fossil fuel infrastructure into the ground on the theory that that will then be used for the next 30, 40, 50 years. And that is precisely what we should not be doing...” (Kolbert, 40:32)
11. The “Maha Moms” and Public Health Backlash
[34:26 – 38:43]
- Formerly pro-Trump “Make America Healthy Again” moms turn on EPA after chemical industry lobbyists take prominent agency positions and the EPA greenlights toxic compounds.
- Maha moms felt betrayed by unkept regulatory promises; mounted campaigns against Zeldin’s policies.
- EPA portrayed some limited chemical reevaluations as “Maha wins”—but claims are largely hollow or misleading.
12. The Political Ascent of Lee Zeldin
[43:16 – End]
- Zeldin became a Trump favorite as one of his fiercest public defenders during both impeachments and after January 6.
- After leaving Congress, ran a consulting firm tied in with America First Policy Institute—the “White House in waiting.”
- Floated as a possible pick for Attorney General, though that remains unresolved.
Memorable Quotes & Moments
-
On the EPA’s Purpose:
“The EPA is really a public health organization...regulations are designed to be protective of human health, and that is its job.” (Kolbert, 03:55)
-
On Science Suppression:
“Gold standard science in the Trump administration seems to mean science that backs up what we want to do.” (Kolbert, 07:47)
-
On the Endangerment Finding:
“Repealing it will be the largest deregulatory action in the history of America.” (Lee Zeldin, 13:28)
-
On the Pace of Dismantling:
“Move fast and break things. And by the time the courts catch up, you can’t put Humpty Dumpty back together again.” (Reilly, relayed by Kolbert, 25:23)
-
On Reality and Denial:
“We are hurtling into a very, very hot and dangerous future...And we're just sticking our heads in the sand. And if that doesn’t concern Americans, it should.” (Kolbert, 15:55)
Important Timestamps
- 00:15 — Start/Introduction of theme
- 01:36 – 03:33 — Kolbert explains EPA staff’s open letter, Zeldin’s retaliation
- 04:59 – 07:47 — Deep dive: Dismantling the Office of Research and Development
- 08:22 – 13:49 — The endangerment finding: what it is, why it matters, Zeldin’s logic
- 12:48 — Lee Zeldin on the Ruthless podcast
- 14:19 – 16:28 — Kolbert on Zeldin’s rhetoric and the real-world climate threat
- 17:13 — Skewed economic calculus in regulatory repeals
- 25:23 — “Move fast and break things”—strategy outpaces the courts
- 30:21 — National Science Foundation board terminated
- 34:26 – 38:43 — Maha Moms: public health activists turn against Trump’s EPA
- 39:36 – 41:30 — Fossil fuel “lock-in” and EPA’s new role
- 43:16 – 47:40 — The political career and loyalty of Lee Zeldin
Tone and Style
- Terry Gross: Coolly insistent, meticulously probing, persistently clarifies technical or legal issues for audience understanding.
- Elizabeth Kolbert: Analytical, evidence-based, yet increasingly alarmed—brings both expertise and urgency to climate/science topics.
Summary Table: Key Actions Under Zeldin’s EPA
| Major Action | Effect | Who Benefits |
|------------------------------------|----------------------------------|------------------------|
| Fired/put on leave EPA scientists | Loss of expertise; silenced dissent | Industry, admin |
| Abolished Office of Research/Development | Gutting science from policymaking | Polluting industries |
| Rescinded “endangerment finding” | EPA no longer must regulate CO2 | Fossil fuel industry |
| Rolled back climate/vehicle rules | Slowed clean energy transition | Fossil fuel industry |
| Approved toxic chemicals/pesticides| Public health at risk | Chemical industry |
| Supported “energy dominance” agenda| New pipelines/coal plants locked in | Fossil fuel industry |
| Suppressed cost-benefit analyses | Excluded health/lives saved | Polluting industries |
Conclusion: The Stakes for America's Future
Kolbert warns that the long-term effects of these rapid, ideological reversals at the EPA threaten public health, erode America’s scientific edge, put future administrations in a legal and logistical bind, and will likely have consequences for decades. She is struck by the administration’s open contempt for scientific practice, and for the speed and scale at which it's seeking to cement its changes—before the courts, or the electorate, can catch up.
For listeners seeking a concise yet thorough understanding of Trump-era EPA transformation, this episode exposes the stakes, strategies, and ongoing battles at the crossroads of science, politics, and environmental survival.