Fresh Air – 'Sinners' Songwriter Raphael Saadiq

Host: Tonya Mosley (with David Bianculli)
Guest: Raphael Saadiq
Date: February 13, 2026

Overview

This episode of Fresh Air spotlights Grammy-winning musician, songwriter, and producer Raphael Saadiq, whose recent Oscar-nominated song “I Lied to You,” co-written with Ludwig Göransson for the film Six Sinners, serves as an emotional centerpiece of the movie. Saadiq discusses his upbringing in Oakland, gospel roots, journey through the music industry, collaborations with major artists including Beyoncé, and the creative ethos he brings to his work. The conversation is rich in reflections on musical risk, legacy, and the importance of collaboration.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Finding His Voice and Early Influences

• Church Roots and First Performances

  • Saadiq recounts the origin of his musical confidence at Union Baptist Church in Oakland, California, where he performed as a child.

    “I found my voice probably at Union Baptist, this church on 71st Avenue in Oakland, California…” (01:58)

  • Reluctant to be a “front guy,” Saadiq was more comfortable as a bass player or in a supporting role, only taking the lead after encouragement from bandmates and producers.

    “It was never in the plan for me to be a front guy… I just wanted to play bass for people who sing really good.” (03:38)

• Influence of Older Generations and Bass

  • Deep affinity for retro soul and R&B sounds; credits Isaac Hayes for teaching him there is “no such thing as old school.”

    “The late, great Isaac Hayes told me, there's no such thing of old school. It's either you've been to school or you didn't.” (05:04)

  • Saadiq’s fascination with the bass stemmed from its powerful presence in Motown classics—especially the work of James Jamerson.

The Origin and Meaning of “I Lied to You” (Six Sinners)

• Genesis of the Song

  • Director Ryan Coogler (an Oakland native like Saadiq) approached him to write for Six Sinners.

    “Ryan Coogler… called me and told me about it and told me what he was thinking about, gave me a synopsis of the film. And it was about blues and right up my alley… I just started playing the guitar lick and I just wrote the lyrics right there.” (06:39)

  • The song, performed by Miles Canton, is pivotal in the movie, channeling deep gospel-blues resonance.

• Lyrical Depth

  • On the line, “They say the truth hurts, so I lied to you”:

    “That's a little mischievous boy line… I thought it would always be a great blues song to take that big voice of Miles…” (08:18)

  • The context in the film involves a son hiding his love of secular music from his preacher father—mirroring Saadiq’s own conflicts between gospel roots and broader musical ambitions.

Composer and Producer Creative Process

• Love of Scoring and Soundtracks

  • Saadiq mentions his habit of muting movie soundtracks to score scenes in his own style, a technique that feeds his enthusiasm for film music.

    “If I'm watching a movie, I'll just turn the volume completely down and I'll start scoring.” (09:38)

  • Example from his own career: writing “Keep Marching,” inspired by a film sequence but ultimately retained for his solo album, where it became a heavily licensed track.

• Collaborating with Beyoncé on ‘Cowboy Carter’

  • Describes working on “16 Carriages” and “Bodyguard”—highlighting both Beyoncé’s relentless work ethic and the spirit of collective creativity in the studio.

    “…the good time is you're around a lot of great people, a lot of great thinkers… That's how Quincy Jones would do it… And that's why music suffers to me now, you're not making a phone call so everything sounds the same. You're not giving different energy, different spirits…” (12:11)

  • The accidental demo for “Bodyguard” became Beyoncé’s choice for her album after she insisted on hearing more.

• Solos and Musical Risk-Taking

  • The extended guitar solo at the conclusion of “Bodyguard” is rare, inspired by Beyoncé’s vision and Saadiq’s willingness to fill in, despite wanting to recruit blues guitarist Eric Gales.

    “She wanted a solo. B wanted a solo and I did a solo. And she was like, can we make it longer? You never hear that from an artist in 2025…” (15:05)

Philosophy of Creativity & Taking Risks

• Dare to Suck

  • Saadiq's approach encourages artistic courage: being willing to fail (“dare to suck”) fosters creative originality.

    “If you're playing music, you have to be, you have to dare to suck. And a lot of people don't do that… When you run into people that do, you have to know, like, I'm gonna try myself. I'm gonna try to not be different. I'm gonna try to do something that I like first and second.” (17:00)

  • This ethos comes both from music and acting classes—pushing past comfort zones and learning by doing.

• Lessons from Acting Applied to Music

  • Acting classes encouraged Saadiq to be vulnerable and take risks on stage, which now informs his stage persona, especially in solo shows.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Musical Legacy:
  “The feeling of music doesn’t change. So you want to get the feeling from way, way back, and you want to take that feeling and inject it to something new.” — Raphael Saadiq (05:13)

• On Collaboration:
  “You got to be able to make… that black book, to call the right musicians. And that's why music suffers, to me now… You need different personalities. It's not about you. It's about everybody else. And that's what made great records.” (12:43)

• On Artistic Courage:
  “If you’re playing music, you have to dare to suck. And a lot of people don’t… But when you run into people that do, you have to know, like, I'm gonna try myself.” (17:00)

• On Being Forced to Take the Stage:
  “I didn't like being a front guy. I didn't want to be a front guy at all… My dream would have been… to play for the Stones… and just be gone.” (03:38)

• On Writing “I Lied to You”:
  “Well, that's a little mischievous boy line… I’ve always had that in my head, that concept of a song.” (08:18)

• On Risk and Choices:
  “Music is about taking chances—taking risks lasting longer than your teacher or your executives or labels…” (16:50)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:49] – Saadiq describes his first performance and early musical path
• [03:38] – Reluctance to be a group's frontman; dreams of playing bass for others
• [04:48] – Influence of older generations; Isaac Hayes’ wisdom
• [05:35] – Early bass inspirations (Motown and James Jamerson)
• [06:39] – Story behind “I Lied to You” and connection with Six Sinners
• [08:18] – Meaning behind “They say the truth hurts, so I lied to you”
• [09:38] – Saadiq’s process scoring to silent films and inspiration behind “Keep Marching”
• [11:41] – Working in the studio with Beyoncé on Cowboy Carter
• [13:22] – How “Bodyguard” wound up on Beyoncé’s album
• [15:05] – Extended guitar solo on “Bodyguard” and unique collaboration
• [16:50] – On risky artistic choices and collaborating with Solange and Beyoncé
• [18:05] – The “dare to suck” philosophy and lessons from acting applied to music
• [19:37] – Carrying lessons from acting classes into music performance

Tone

• Warm, thoughtful, and deeply reflective.
• Saadiq is honest, conversational, sprinkled with anecdotes and gentle humor.
• Host Tonya Mosley is insightful, respectfully probing, and brings out stories behind the music.

This episode gives listeners a nuanced look at Raphael Saadiq’s artistry, his reverence for musical tradition, and his continual journey to innovate and inspire by staying true to feeling, collaboration, and creative bravery.