Fresh Air – March 18, 2026

Episode: The Blitz, Romance, and Time-Traveling Fascists
Host: Sam Brigger (with Terry Gross intro)
Guest: Francis Spufford, British novelist

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth conversation between Fresh Air executive producer Sam Brigger and acclaimed British novelist Francis Spufford, whose new book, Nonesuch, is a thrilling blend of Blitz-era historical fiction, fantasy, and romance. The discussion ranges from the mythic significance of the Blitz in modern British identity, the detective work of reimagining history, gender roles, class, sexuality, and Spufford's personal journey through loss, faith, and the sustaining power of literature. The episode also briefly reviews Spufford's previous works, including Cahokia Jazz and Light Perpetual, and concludes with a review of the new Peaky Blinders film.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Enduring Legacy of the Blitz in British Identity

[03:02 – 05:09]

• The Blitz is depicted as the defining mythic moment for London and Britain, a narrative invoked for national unity but also subject to mythologizing.
• Spufford on the "Blitz spirit":

  "It's nice to think that amidst the complications and bits of shame and horror in our history, especially the imperial side of it, there should be one moment where we did the right thing." – Francis Spufford (03:30)

• Even as living memory fades, there’s more public commemoration (e.g., Remembrance Sunday), cultivating collective memory.

2. Everyday Survival During the Blitz

[05:09 – 08:05]

• Spufford reads a passage from Nonesuch illustrating the daily terror and routine juxtaposition in wartime London:

  "Every bomb landed somewhere every night. For some people, the dice roll was going wrong … And then, when you had survived another night of that, you tidied yourself up, put on your work clothes and stepped out ... there was only a faint ache in her eyes looking at the bright and damaged world, an ache so permanent that after a while she started to think of it as the world itself, aching faintly all the time." – Francis Spufford [reading] (05:18)

• Sam Brigger underscores the surreal contrast between nightly terror and daily normalcy.

3. Nonesuch in Conversation with Narnia

[08:05 – 10:09]

• Spufford describes Nonesuch as both a homage and critique of C.S. Lewis’s Narnia books:

  "I had a specific loving argument I wanted to have with CS Lewis ... Because I love him, I'm allowed to be annoyed with him as well. ... I wanted to pick up specifically the notoriously unfair bit at the end of the last Narnia book, in which the character Susan is not allowed to join in with the happy ending ... So I knew that I wanted to write a fantasy set then which very deliberately had as its protagonist ... somebody who was really strongly in favor of nylons, lipsticks and invitations ..." – Francis Spufford (09:13)

4. The Reality of British Fascism & Time-Travel Plot

[10:11 – 12:28]

• Nonesuch features "magical time-traveling fascists" attempting to assassinate Churchill, grounded in historical reality:

  "There was a distinct kind of vein of pro fascist sentiment in the British upper classes ... For the first nine months of the Second World War, British fascists were operating completely unimpeded." – Francis Spufford (10:39)

• Parallels drawn with the rise of authoritarianism today:

  "The dangers of that time are kind of a warning about the dangers of this time ..." – Francis Spufford (12:28)

5. Iris Hawkins: Gender, Sexuality, and Class

[13:08 – 19:51]

• Iris—Nonesuch protagonist—inherits the adventurous disposition and unorthodoxy of Spufford’s grandmother (who inspired the character).

  "She just smiled and looked mysterious. So Iris is in some ways my attempt to imagine my way into that world, but I didn't have much to go on. So Iris is a creation, not a copy." – Francis Spufford (15:15)

• Spufford commits to telling the story from Iris’s subjective viewpoint, avoiding objectification:

  "The book never ever lets you know what she looks like, for example. So she is never the object ... she is always the subject..." (16:19)

• Iris embraces sexuality, but the narrative also explores her vulnerability and fear of intimacy.

  "I think she discovers that you can be a lot more naked than just taking your clothes off if the emotional stakes are higher ..." (17:17)

• Class distinctions in wartime England:

  "Watford is part of the ring of outer suburbs around London ... She is prosperous, suburban, lower middle class ... And she doesn't sound classy until she remakes herself." (19:18)

6. Social Mobility and Accents in England

[19:43 – 20:58]

• Spufford notes changes in Britain since the 1940s: regional accents are no longer strictly socially subordinate, thanks in part to BBC’s effort to diversify voices.

  "We are a more socially mobile society than we used to, and our kind of social signifiers have slipped and switched around as well." (20:55)

7. Revisiting Cahokia Jazz: Alternative American Histories

[21:38 – 25:02]

• Cahokia Jazz envisions a thriving indigenous nation in 1920s America, challenging the "strange obviousness" of indigenous erasure from US history.

  "What if [Native Americans] weren't gone? … The way to do it was in alternative history ... as a crime novel, because a detective … is a fabulous way to explore a world." (22:50)

• Jazz as a metaphor for cultural fusion and creative possibility.

8. Writing Music (and Sex) Scenes

[25:02 – 27:46]

• Brigger draws a parallel between bad musical and sex scenes in fiction.
• Spufford reads a vivid jam session from Cahokia Jazz:

  "The opening was a lineup of separate calls. Dee doo dee doo de. Dollfuss wailed, Stukely honked ..." (25:42)

• Spufford admits his writing required input from musically inclined family members.

9. Personal Loss, Reading, and Survivor’s Guilt

[28:25 – 33:46]

• Spufford’s sister died young from a genetic disorder, deeply shaping his emotional life and immersion in books as "escape":

  "I think I spent my childhood feeling I needed to reassure [my parents] that I was fine, which was emotionally laborious in itself. So I was very glad to head off into books as a series of doors out from emotional intensity." (29:02)

• Grappling with survivor’s guilt and absence:

  "I miss her very much. I wish now, at 61, I had a 58-year-old sister who had passed through all of these decades with me ... But I think of her often." (31:09)

• Light Perpetual explores this theme: the prize, Spufford says, is simply to "grow old and die anyway" (32:31).

10. Faith, Doubt, and Christian Storytelling

[33:46 – 39:35]

• Spufford recounts his return to Christianity, sparked by a transcendent experience listening to Mozart:

  "It felt like an announcement of a completely unillusioned kind ... all of the kind of possible darknesses and mess of the human condition acknowledged. And yet, it said, and yet there is also this to consider as well. There is this. This undestroyed, merciful sound rising up ..." (36:22)

• His 2012 book Why, Despite Everything, Christianity Can Still Make Surprising Emotional Sense is "salty" (with swearing) and aims not to convert, but to explain belief’s emotional depth.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the everyday Blitz experience:

  "There was only a faint ache in her eyes... an ache so permanent that after a while she started to think of it as the world itself, aching faintly all the time." – Francis Spufford [reading] (06:00)

• On creating Iris as subject, not object:

  "The book never ever lets you know what she looks like ... she is never the object ... she is always the subject, the person who is looking at the world and liking what she sees." – Francis Spufford (16:19)

• On loss and the meaning of survival:

  "What you want is to grow old and die anyway ... I write to try and find concrete and fully felt ways to give pity a place to live and endure." – Francis Spufford (32:31)

• On the impact of art on belief:

  "[Mozart’s Clarinet Concerto] felt like an announcement of a completely unillusioned kind. ... There is this undestroyed, merciful sound rising up out of the confusions of the world." – Francis Spufford (36:22)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:33] – Episode and author introduction by Terry Gross and Sam Brigger
• [03:02] – The importance of the Blitz in British identity
• [05:18] – Spufford reads a passage from Nonesuch
• [08:05] – Relationship with C.S. Lewis and Narnia
• [10:11] – British fascism and the time-traveling antagonist
• [13:08] – Iris Hawkins, gender roles, and dedication to Spufford’s grandmother
• [15:30] – The inspiration behind Iris and "not entirely a good girl"
• [19:18] – Class, the Watford accent, and social mobility
• [21:38] – Cahokia Jazz and alternative histories
• [25:42] – Writing about music (and sex)
• [28:25] – Childhood, loss, and reading as escape
• [32:10] – On survivor’s guilt and Light Perpetual
• [36:22] – Faith, music, and emotional sense-making
• [39:35] – Wrap up and signoff

Additional Segment

Peaky Blinders: The Immortal Man Review

[41:12 – 46:36]

• TV critic David Biancooli reviews the new Peaky Blinders film, praising Cillian Murphy’s return as Tommy Shelby and the series’ blending of fact and fiction.
• Biancooli:

  "Like any good Steven Knight drama, and they're all good, Peaky Blinders is addictive, easy to consume and impossible to forget." (46:25)

Takeaways

• Francis Spufford’s Nonesuch is both a lively, magical adventure and a nuanced meditation on the undercurrents of British wartime society.
• The conversation weaves historical fact, literary critique, vivid characterization, and personal vulnerability.
• Both the author’s own story and his fictional worlds are marked by a willingness to confront darkness, complexity, and the possibility of mercy and resilience.