Fresh Air: A Chatbot Reacts To A Book About Tech Hosted by Terry Gross | Guest: Wahini Vara | Release Date: July 23, 2025
In this illuminating episode of NPR's Fresh Air, host Terry Gross engages in a deep conversation with tech journalist and award-winning novelist Wahini Vara. The discussion delves into Wahini's complex relationship with big tech, her innovative use of AI in her new book Selfhood in the Digital Age, and the broader implications of artificial intelligence on personal expression and privacy.
1. Wahini Vara's Conflicted Relationship with Big Tech
Wahini Vara articulates a nuanced stance towards major technology companies like Amazon and Google. While she criticizes Amazon for ethical reasons related to consumerism, she acknowledges her continued patronage due to practical conveniences. Similarly, Wahini opposes Google's monetization of personal data for targeted advertising but appreciates the archival nature of her search history.
Wahini Vara [02:26]: "It was worth it. I was like, I'm getting to that studio."
2. Integrating AI into Literary Work
As a tech reporter, Wahini gained early access to a predecessor of ChatGPT. She explores the potential and pitfalls of AI-assisted writing in her book. Wahini experimented by feeding chapters of her book into ChatGPT, seeking feedback and observing the AI's responses to understand its capabilities and limitations.
Wahini Vara [02:45]: "I wanted to see how ChatGPT would respond. And so the interplay between sort of my performance and its performance was super interesting to me."
3. Ethical Considerations in Interacting with AI
Terry Gross raises an ethical query about misleading chatbots by presenting false pretexts. Wahini responds affirmatively, emphasizing that interactions with AI differ fundamentally from human communications. She views these engagements as a form of play, exploring new modes of communication without the ethical weight typically associated with human interactions.
Wahini Vara [03:35]: "Our relationship with these products is really different from our relationships with other human beings."
4. Uncovering AI Biases Through Interaction
Wahini identifies biases in ChatGPT's feedback, noting the AI's tendency to suggest more positive portrayals of tech leaders like Sam Altman, CEO of OpenAI. She contemplates whether these biases stem from the AI's training data or deliberate design choices by its creators.
Wahini Vara [06:10]: "It's such an interesting question, and it gets to the heart... but we just don't know. But I think that not knowing is a problem."
5. Limitations of AI in Authentic Expression
Through her experiences, Wahini demonstrates that while AI can generate language that appears moving or intellectually stimulating, it lacks the authentic personal experience necessary for genuine emotional expression. Her experiment writing about her sister's death with ChatGPT highlighted the AI's inability to truly capture human grief.
Wahini Vara [12:52]: "Ultimately, this machine was not me. And so it couldn't say anything authentic about my actual experience."
6. Personal Reflections on AI Usage
Wahini discusses her limited but purposeful use of AI, primarily as a tool for overcoming minor writer's block, such as finding the right word. She remains cautious about the broader implications of AI, particularly concerning privacy and the potential for companies to exploit personal data.
Wahini Vara [23:46]: "I use AI in very limited ways... I have fairly low confidence that that transparency is always going to be there."
7. The Future of AI and Human Agency
Looking ahead, Wahini emphasizes the importance of individual and collective choices in shaping the role of AI in society. She urges readers to consider how much they want AI to influence various aspects of life, from writing to personal decision-making, advocating for a future where human agency remains paramount.
Wahini Vara [33:17]: "We're in this really interesting period... we can actually decide as individuals, as communities, as societies, the extent to which we want AI to be a part of the future."
8. Anecdote: The Spelling Bee Experience
In a lighter moment, Wahini shares her experience competing in the national spelling bee, highlighting her enduring love for language despite the challenges posed by obscure words. This anecdote underscores her deep appreciation for linguistic nuances, contrasting with the mechanical language generation of AI.
Wahini Vara [35:13]: "I love words that I didn't even know existed. I take pleasure in spelling them."
Conclusion
Wahini Vara's conversation with Terry Gross offers a thoughtful examination of the intersection between human creativity and artificial intelligence. Through her personal experiments and professional insights, Wahini navigates the ethical landscapes of AI, advocating for mindful engagement with technology while preserving the irreplaceable authenticity of human expression.
Notable Quotes:
- Wahini Vara [04:15]: "The theme of the book is how tech is helping and exploiting us."
- Wahini Vara [07:42]: "I did not want to integrate anything the chatbot suggested."
- Wahini Vara [20:10]: "We're two human beings trying to make meaning out of something that is fundamentally... meaningless."
This summary captures the essence of Wahini Vara's interview on Fresh Air, providing listeners and readers with a comprehensive understanding of the discussions surrounding AI's role in modern life and literature.