Fresh Air — "A Story Of Indigenous Survival & Resurgence"

Date: October 16, 2025
Host: Terry Gross
Guest: Julian Brave Noisecat

Overview

In this powerful and personal episode, Terry Gross speaks with writer, journalist, documentarian, and activist Julian Brave Noisecat about his family’s experience of Indigenous survival in North America, the intergenerational traumas inflicted by Canadian residential schools, and the resurgence of Indigenous culture. The conversation explores Julian's acclaimed documentary "Sugarcane" and his new book, "We Survived the Night." Both works delve into his father Ed Archie Noisecat's harrowing origins at St. Joseph’s Mission School, the near-erasure and stubborn endurance of Secwepemc (Shuswap) culture, and Julian's own journey toward reconciliation, cultural belonging, and activism.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Julian’s Father’s Origin Story and the Trauma of Residential Schools

• Historic Atrocity—A Personal Lens
  • Ed Archie Noisecat, Julian's father, was discovered after birth in the trash incinerator at St. Joseph's Mission (02:43–03:11), a residential school implicated in abuse and infanticide.
  • “My father was discovered in the trash incinerator at St. Joseph's Mission... his cries for life as sounding like the noise of a cat, which... only became Noise Cat, my last name, after it was written down wrong by those same missionaries.” — Julian Brave Noisecat, (03:11)
• Silence and Intergenerational Trauma
  • Julian only uncovered the full story while producing "Sugarcane" and writing his book.
  • Both Julian's father and grandmother lived with silence and shame surrounding the past (04:42–06:44).
  • “There’s a piece of this story that, of course, the church and the government is not talking about, and there’s also an element of that silence that has been internalized by native families like my own.” — Julian Brave Noisecat, (03:47)

2. Colonial Legacy: Guilt, Shame, and Internalized Violence

• Internalizing Oppression
  • References Frantz Fanon, the ways colonized peoples may internalize oppressions, manifesting in cycles of trauma (05:19–06:44).
  • The story implicates not just church officials, but also how violence embedded itself in family and community: “At these schools children were abused, and sometimes those children grew up to themselves, become abusers.” — Julian Brave Noisecat, (05:19)
• Only One Person Punished
  • Julian’s grandmother was the only one ever punished for the incinerator infanticides at St. Joseph’s, despite systemic culpability (06:48–07:45).

3. Cultural Suppression and Resurgence

• Loss and Recovery of Tradition
  • “Our way of life really did nearly die out until recent decades. It started to finally come back.” (10:16)
  • Few elders, such as Julian’s grandmother, still speak the language and retain pre-Christian spiritual practices.
• Catholicism and Indigenous Belief
  • Coexistence of Catholic customs and Indigenous ceremony is common (10:16–12:23).
  • Traditional funerary rituals have survived, integrating Indigenous and Catholic elements.
  • “Despite the fact that we've lost so many different parts of what it is to be Shuswap… We still bury our dead in a way that remains true to our customs.” — Julian Brave Noisecat, (11:27)

4. Reclamation—Language, Song, and Ceremony

• Gambling Game at Funerals
  • Lahal, an ancient spiritual game, is played at funerals, redistributing the deceased’s possessions, awakening spiritual power, and building community (12:28–13:53).
• Song as Protest and Tradition
  • Julian sings a Lahal/protest song underscoring the enduring claim to land:

    Hey, hey, hey hey oh, yeah hey, hey, hey / Ahoya hey, hey / Yahoo Canada is all Indian land...
    (13:59–14:41)

• Language Revitalization
  • Julian learned Secwepemctsin as a young adult, emphasizing the emotional and technical work of language recovery (26:15–28:18).

5. Family Patterns, Disconnection, and Reconciliation

• Father’s Departure and Artistic Journey
  • As “the garbage can kid,” Ed fled trauma for Vancouver, art school (by accident), and a career as an artist. He later gained national recognition (16:06).
  • Childhood pain and later alcoholism led Julian's parents to divorce, and left Julian feeling abandoned (17:15–18:32).
• Confrontation and Healing
  • Moving in together to make the film/book, Julian and his father rebuilt their relationship through honesty and creativity:

    “Your story is someone who is abandoned, but also who abandoned.”—Julian to his father, (17:58)
    “I didn't leave you, son.” — Ed Archie Noisecat, (18:21)
    “Yeah, you did.” — Julian, (18:30)

6. The Role of Julian’s Mother in Cultural Reconnection

• Maternal Advocacy for Identity
  • Julian’s white American mother was committed to connecting him to his Native roots through visits, community involvement, and crafting powwow regalia (21:44–23:07).
  • “She had this instinct that was...brilliant for a mom and bang on, that I needed to be connected to my family, his family…my culture and my identity.” — Julian, (21:44)

7. Belonging, Kinship & Wider Lessons

• Culturally Expansive Notions of Family
  • Julian describes how Indigenous kinship systems offer lessons for wider society about community, mutual responsibility, and relational living (25:02–26:15).

8. Cultural Practice & Responsibility

• Powwow and Ceremony
  • Becoming a champion powwow dancer, Julian “traveled Indian country” as a youth, and sees cultural revitalization as both joy and duty (29:53–32:28).
• Fasting as Ceremony & Ethics
  • Undertakes annual fasts (4 days, no food or water) to spiritually prepare for the telling of hard truths, drawn from Alkali Lake tradition (33:44–35:16).

9. On Survival and Resilience

• Book Title: ‘We Survive the Night’
  • Title comes from the Secwepemctsin morning greeting Chokwinnukh, “you survived the night,” evoking humor, survival, and profound depth given community history (28:23–29:53).
  • “What did it mean in the winter of 1863 when 2/3 of our nation died of smallpox? What did it mean in the days after the children were all taken away in cattle trucks...?” — Julian, (28:23)

10. The Future: Storytelling as Life Practice

• Art as Survival and Resistance
  • Julian looks forward to writing a novel and making another documentary, seeing storytelling as existential practice and necessary resistance (36:21–37:29).
  • “To live a life in an indigenous way is a kind of profound thing, and it has been really beautiful to get to make art and tell stories from that position.” — Julian, (36:21)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Intergenerational Silence:
  “There’s also an element of that silence that has been internalized by native families like my own.” (03:47)
• On Reconciliation:
  “We really did become like best friends… I did make the choice to move back in with him to create some opportunity for reconciliation, also made it possible for us to have real and hard conversations.” (19:31)
• On Kinship:
  “Part of what is really beautiful about being Native, about being indigenous, is that being related really means something to us. We are very involved in each other's lives.” (25:02)
• On Ceremony:
  “If you can set your mind to the discipline of sitting in a same place for four days and four nights with no food and no water, then you can set your mind to anything.” (35:16)
• On the Meaning of ‘We Survived the Night’:
  “It gets at the beauty and the sensibility of our people and our way of telling stories.” (29:53)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:16] Introduction: Ed Archie Noisecat’s origin story at St. Joseph’s Mission
• [02:43] Start of Interview with Julian Brave Noisecat
• [03:11–06:44] Ed’s survival and the cycle of trauma
• [10:16–14:41] Survival and resurgence of culture, spiritual and funeral practices, singing the Lahal protest song
• [17:58–18:51] Confrontation and reconciliation between Julian and his father (audio excerpt from “Sugarcane”)
• [21:44] Role of Julian’s mother in preserving his Native identity
• [26:15–28:18] Language loss and revitalization; learning Secwepemctsin
• [28:23] Meaning behind the book title “We Survived the Night”
• [29:53–32:28] Powwow dancing as connection and cultural revival
• [33:44–35:16] Fasting tradition and spiritual preparation for storytelling
• [36:21] Looking ahead: stories as existential practice

Tone & Style

• The tone is direct, unflinching, often emotional, weaving personal anecdote with historical analysis and cultural context.
• Julian’s language is literary but conversational, marked by empathy, wry humor, and deep respect for ancestors and community.
• Terry Gross’s trademark sensitivity and curiosity draws out honest and insightful reflection.

This episode is a compelling journey through the pain and resilience woven into Indigenous survival and resurgence, told through one family's experience but unfolding universal themes of intergenerational trauma, kinship, and the power of stories to heal, connect, and resist erasure.