Author James Patterson On The Art Of Collaboration

Summary

Fresh Air Episode Summary Title: Author James Patterson On The Art Of Collaboration
Host: Terry Gross
Release Date: May 27, 2025

---

Introduction to James Patterson

In this episode of Fresh Air, Terry Gross welcomes James Patterson, the prolific author known for selling over 400 million copies worldwide. Patterson is celebrated for his diverse range of books, including the Alex Cross detective series, the Women's Murder Club series, and Maximum Ride. His works have transcended literature, with Alex Cross being adapted into three films and an Amazon Prime Video series renewed for a second season. Patterson has also collaborated with notable figures like Bill Clinton and Dolly Parton, and authored nonfiction books on subjects ranging from the Kennedys to John Lennon.

Notable Quote:

"I'd be remiss if I didn't also mention that he's now collaborating on a thriller with the star YouTuber and influencer known as Mr. Beast." — Terry Gross [01:22]

---

The Art of Collaboration in Writing

A central theme of the interview is Patterson's collaborative writing process. Unlike traditional authors who write every sentence, Patterson outlines his stories meticulously and delegates the actual writing to collaborators. This method allows him to produce a high volume of work without compromising quality.

Notable Quote:

"James Patterson writes elaborate outlines of the story. The collaborators write the sentences." — Terry Gross [00:00]

Patterson elaborates on how this approach has been instrumental in his success, enabling him to manage multiple projects simultaneously and maintain consistency across his vast bibliography.

---

Philanthropy and Recognition

Beyond his literary achievements, Patterson is a committed philanthropist. He has donated over $7 million to schools and classroom libraries, established more than 400 scholarships at 21 institutions, and contributed over $2 million to independent bookstores. His philanthropic efforts were recognized on May 14, when he received the Lifelong Learning Award from WHYY, the station behind Fresh Air.

Notable Quote:

"It's like acknowledging not just the institution or an abstract idea of loving reading, but honoring the individuals who do the work." — Terry Gross [19:16]

---

Interactive Segment with Stephen King

A memorable moment in the interview features renowned author Stephen King, who joins to honor Patterson. Their conversation delves into their respective writing processes, inspirations, and personal experiences.

Notable Exchange:

James Patterson:
"In your memoir, you describe how you hear voices in your head, basically telling you stories. I'd really like to know what that feels like, what that experience is like."
[01:02]

Stephen King:
"You think you do? No, I do until the voices won't stop and they keep you up at night..."
[02:33]

They discuss topics ranging from King's brief stay at a Trappist monastery during his struggles with drug use to the complexities of writing across different genres. Patterson shares insights from his memoir, highlighting the differences between storytelling and the contemplative silence of monastic life.

Notable Quote:

"I became a better writer writing that autobiography. I concentrated on the sentences more than I had in a while, which is really important for me." — Stephen King [04:00]

---

Personal Reflections and Life Lessons

The dialogue between Patterson and King also touches on personal histories and life lessons. King opens up about his relationship with his father, the challenges of growing up without a strong paternal figure, and the therapeutic journey that helped him reconcile his past.

Notable Quote:

"He apologized for just not being as close as he thought he should have been. And I just said, you were a great dad." — Stephen King [13:17]

They explore themes of forgiveness, resilience, and the impact of family dynamics on personal growth and creativity.

---

The Future of Patterson's Work

As the interview concludes, Patterson hints at upcoming projects, including a new book titled The Number One Dad Book, aimed at providing practical advice for new fathers. He also mentions a forthcoming collaboration with Bill Clinton set to be published later in the summer, signaling continued expansion of his collaborative endeavors.

Notable Quote:

"Because most dads will not read the 400-page book. So what I did is just try to be pragmatic about it." — James Patterson [10:59]

---

Closing Remarks

Terry Gross wraps up the interview by congratulating Patterson on his achievements and philanthropic contributions, underscoring the author's significant influence both in literature and beyond.

---

Conclusion

This Fresh Air episode offers an in-depth look into James Patterson's prolific career, his unique collaborative approach to writing, and his substantial contributions to education and literacy. The engaging conversation with Stephen King further enriches the discussion, providing listeners with personal anecdotes and profound insights into the lives of two of America's most renowned authors.

---

For listeners interested in supporting NPR's mission and accessing bonus content, consider subscribing to Fresh Air Plus and signing up for the weekly Fresh Air Weekly newsletter at www.whyy.org/freshair.

Transcript

[Terry Gross]

Terry this is FRESH air. I'm Terry Gross. My guest, James Patterson, has sold over 400 million copies of his many books. Those books include the Alex Cross detective series, the Women's Murder Club series, and Maximum Ride. Alex Cross was spun off into three films, two starring Morgan Freeman and another starring Tyler Perry. An Amazon prime video series called Cross has been renewed for a second season. Patterson has co authored books with Bill Clinton and Dolly Parton. His second collaboration with Clinton will be published this summer. Patterson's also written nonfiction books about the Kennedys, John Lennon, Muhammad Ali and Jeffrey Epstein, as well as books for children and young adults. His new book, the Number One Dad Book, is addressed to new fathers who need some advice. Back when Patterson was starting to write, he took a job as a junior copywriter at the J. Walter Thompson advertising agency. He rose to the top, becoming CEO and then head of the agency's North America division. If you're wondering how he's managed to do all this, he typically works with collaborators. Patterson writes an elaborate outline of the story. The collaborators write the sentences. He describes this in more detail in his 2022 memoir called James Patterson by James Patterson.

[James Patterson]

I'd be remiss if I didn't also.

[Terry Gross]

Mention that he's now collaborating on a thriller with the star youtuber and influencer known as Mr. Be. As you can guess, Patterson is pretty rich. He's also a generous philanthropist, donating over $7 million to schools and classroom libraries around the country, establishing over 400 teacher and writer education scholarships at 21 colleges and universities, and giving over $2 million to independent bookstores. In recognition of his work. On May 14, James Patterson received the Lifelong Learning Award from WHYY, the public radio and TV station where FRESH AIR is. That was the occasion for our interview, which we recorded in front of an audience.

[Stephen King]

Hi, I'm Stephen King. I'm here to honor James. I love the guy. What can I tell you?

[James Patterson]

First of all, congratulations and thank you for doing this interview.

[Stephen King]

I am not worthy. I am not worthy.

[James Patterson]

So in your memoir, you describe how you hear voices in your head, basically telling you stories. I'd really like to know what that feels like, what that experience is like.

[Stephen King]

You think you do? No, I do until the voices won't stop and they keep you up at night. You know, it's an interesting thing. You talk about voice. All these books have a different voice. The father book has a voice. The autobiography has a voice. Alex Cross is a different kind of voice. The kids books different voices. I've learned not to, like, get up in the middle of the night anymore and start writing. I just. Yeah, pretty much. Sometimes I do. Right. So.

[James Patterson]

So another thing that I learned from your memoir, which I found really fascinating because it's so different from the work that you do and from the stories I keep coming to in your head. When you were young, before you became a writer, when you first became really interested in reading, you read a lot of Thomas Merton, who was like the. The now famous Trappist monk.

[Stephen King]

Yeah.

[James Patterson]

Who wrote the bestseller Seven Story Mountain, which was kind of required reading for a lot of people in college, like in the 60s and 70s. But anyway, you actually went to the monastery in Kentucky.

[Stephen King]

Yes.

[James Patterson]

That he lived in for many years. And I think you seriously considered becoming a Trappist monk?

[Stephen King]

No, I didn't do that, but I was in graduate school. I was at Vanderbilt, and I was kind of wandering around thinking about when I. It was during Vietnam. So it was a scary time for. For anybody in school or not in school. And I decided to go up there to. And I just kind of showed up. It's kind of interesting because the Trappist monks, you know, they're not supposed to really talk, but they have one.

[James Patterson]

Yeah, they don't talk. It's.

[Stephen King]

They have one priest or brother who will greet people that come in. And I remember I talked to. He said, well, why are you here? And I said, well, you know, I'm doing a little too many drugs and, you know, whatever, and I just need to kind of straighten my life out a little bit. And he said, james, you know, life is like a game of football, and you run down the field, but if you step out of bounds, you know, the score doesn't count. And at that point, I just wished that he had maintained the silence rather than giving that. But they did let me stay. They let me stay for about 10 days. And I left there saying, okay, if I want to be a writer, I have to do certain things, and I'm going to do this somehow or I'm going to try to do it. But I needed that 10 days to really sort of think it through and focus on it. And focusing is a big thing. You mentioned the autobiography, and especially at my age, I think it's semi interesting to me anyway, and I wrote it during COVID But I became a better writer writing that autobiography. I concentrated on the sentences more than I had in a while, which is really important for me.

[James Patterson]

One of the things I find interesting about spending 10 days in the Trappist monastery is because they practice silence and because you're always hearing stories and voices in your head. And both the silence and the need to like write, to always have like more words and more stories, seems so kind of opposite from like the attention to silence in the monastery. So it seemed so different from.

[Stephen King]

I just wanted to think. And I mean, they're not in totally silent. I mean, they sing It's a Fascinating Life. I mean, they go to bed at like 7:30, they get up at 3 or so, they have a mass or whatever, and they sing a lot. And they're all very healthy, at least they were in those days. And then they go out in the fields and then they come back and have these very spartan meals. And I just found it was a time to really put my mind at peace and ease and think things through.

[James Patterson]

You mentioned you were doing too many drugs.

[Stephen King]

Yeah.

[James Patterson]

How did being an usher at the Fillmore east figure into that? And for anyone who doesn't know the Fillmore east, that was the east coast equivalent of the Fillmore west, which is where they had all of the like psychedelic concerts, you know, whether it was Grateful Dead or the Jefferson Airplane, they were there.

[Stephen King]

And Jimi Hendrix. Doors.

[James Patterson]

Yeah, and the Doors. Yeah, yeah.

[Stephen King]

No, I. Well, no, my job there was not to take drugs. And it wasn't that. I was a massive drug user and I pretty much always had things in control, but it just seemed to me that if I really. And my grades are always good, but I. I needed to just focus more was the main thing. But at the Phil Morris, I also was at Woodstock now, everybody I know my age says they were there, but. But they weren't because I looked around and. But the Fillmore East, I did that for a couple of years. And actually Robert Mapplethorpe was one of the ushers.

[James Patterson]

You're kidding.

[Stephen King]

No, no, no. Yeah, yeah. I knew him a little bit back then. And actually one of the stories in the book, which was so great, after one of the Doors, after one of their shows, and they were all sitting in the front. I think there was two shows that night and they were sitting there with. With Graham, who ran Filmer Race and Fillmore west, and a bunch of the ushers, we were sitting behind them a few rows and Jim Morrison, he looked. It was a three story theater. And he looked up and all these lights were hanging over the seats in the front. He said, bill, that's really dangerous. Those lights would come down and kill people. And Graham's going, jim, just relax. The lights are not coming down. You know, we're going to be fine. And then Morrison just Stormed off. And about 10 minutes later, we hear this voice and somebody screaming, you look up there. This is a true story. And Morrison is hanging from the lights. He goes, you're right, Bill. It's okay. These lights are off.

[James Patterson]

So people are always wondering, how do you do it? How do you write so many books? And the answer is, you collaborate.

[Stephen King]

Well, that's part of the answer. Part of it is you love to do it. Somebody said, you're lucky if you find something you like to do, and then it's a miracle if somebody will pay you to do it. But even before people were paying me to do it, I just loved. And actually, it was working at McLean, the hospital, which is when I started writing. I would go into Cambridge and buy. I went to a Catholic high school, and they just gave us a lot of books that none of us liked. But when I moved up there, I started reading a lot of stuff, the kind of stuff I hadn't read before. And I was loving a lot of plays, short stories, you know, and a lot of novels. And then I started scribbling, and I loved it. I just loved telling stories. And I think I grew up in the woods, and I used to, as a little kid, I would go out in the woods and tell myself stories and story after story after story after story. And I think that. And I remember actually when I used to get down to Vanderbilt, I would drive down there from Massachusetts. It would take like 26 hours or whatever. And they used to write Broadway musicals in my head. Driving down to, you know, and sing songs. It was crazy. But, you know, the music and lyrics. Well, yeah, I mean, sort of. The music. Yes. Yeah, yeah. I would always put a tune to it, whatever I was, you know, and the storyline, whatever the heck it was. And it would just, you know, I don't know. But it was fun. I liked it.

[James Patterson]

At what point in your writing career did you think that it would be helpful or a good idea or more productive or whatever to work with collaborators and. And then maybe you can explain your process for doing that.

[Stephen King]

Yeah. I don't know why people find it so extraordinary. First of all, in advertising, which I hate to go back to that prison, but in my mind, it's very collaborative. And you generally, you work with an art director and maybe a producer, and the two or three of you will sit in a room and you create these little stories, little films, usually. And that is collaborative. You know, Sistine Chapel, all these, you know, some famous. Doing this thing on the, you know, 5, 10, whatever number. Collaborative. My own Theory is if we're going to save the world, we'll have to somehow figure out to be collaborative or AI will probably figure it out for us. And the other save us to destroy us. Depending on, you know, the mood that day. It just seemed a natural thing to me. And the first one actually is a little golf book. And it's a guy that I knew from the advertising days. And after we played golf, we just started chatting about a story that I had. And we said, well, let's just try this. And we wrote miracle on the 17th green. And then after that I just said, you know what? I can do this. This will be an interesting thing. And I don't remember the first one. It might have been a woman's murder club where I collaborated. The second or the third book, Andy Gross, who. Wonderful guy who just died was so tragic.

[James Patterson]

Yeah, I read the Ovid.

[Stephen King]

Oh my God. You know, just such a healthy looking man, you know, and a wonderful person. At any rate, that was very sad for us. And obviously it's trag for his family.

[James Patterson]

You describe yourself as being like the storyteller, but you enjoy telling the stories, writing, you know, coming up with a story. It's doing like a very elaborate. 30. 30, 40, 50.

[Stephen King]

Yeah.

[James Patterson]

Outlines.

[Stephen King]

On this tour, I'm working on three outlines.

[James Patterson]

Yeah. But then you, you leave this actual sentences.

[Stephen King]

Well, you see what happens to Alex Cross, I gotta tell you.

[James Patterson]

But you leave the sentences in the book to the person you're collaborating with. At what point did you think that you'd stick to the stories and leave the sentences to someone else? Correct me if I.

[Stephen King]

Well, no, no, no. Yeah. No, I didn't. I mean, a lot of times my compartmentalized beginning. No. I would go in and do two or three drafts in the beginning. Not as much now because most of people I'm working with, they kind of know the joke. But I'll still come in and rewrite. I mean, the most insane thing was when I did the bookshots, which were novellas, which I still think is. Was a very valuable thing to do. So the stores would have these. You could read these books in a couple of hours, like a movie. They're novellas. 100 pages. 100. Whatever the heck. And I think it's a useful thing. The publishers were afraid of it because, oh my God, people are going to buy these $7 books and they won't buy. Well, they will buy longer books, but you're just going to have more people. And some of them, that's all they have time for. They have a couple hours and they want to. You know, it's like. It's like a movie. But the year I did that, I wrote 2,400 pages of outlines in addition to two full books. And then that's one of the things that people are looking at what I do and they go like, well, and they always project their own situation. And people are sort of funny that way. With the dad book, how to be a Better dad in one hour, I'll talk to these various people who interview you and they say, what's the one idea? And I go, there isn't one idea. The whole idea of this book, there's so many things dads can work on, and they just need to figure out the things that pertain to them. And the reason it's one hour is because most dads will not read the 400 page book. So what I did is just try. And it's not a joke, but it's serious. I mean, because I wanted to be pragmatic about it. And what I've heard, and I've never had this experience before, but especially women who read the book and they say, I'm giving this quite seriously to my husband, quite seriously to my dad, and quite seriously to my two goofy brothers who are dads and really need help. And guys, do guys need help right now.

[James Patterson]

Are these things that your father did or did not do for you?

[Stephen King]

My dad. The only time, and this isn't totally true, but my only hug I ever got from my dad was on his deathbed. And he apologized and he cried, which he never did.

[James Patterson]

He apologized for not hugging you.

[Stephen King]

He apologized for just not being as close as he thought he should have been. And I just said, you were a great dad. You were a great dad.

[James Patterson]

Was he?

[Stephen King]

Look, he grew up in the Newburgh poorhouse. It was called the Pogie. His mother was a charwoman there. His father had disappeared. He never knew his father and he didn't have the experience to be a dad, you know, so that's fine. And I did therapy for one year and I got in touch with. And I just don't blame him. It was fine. He did the best he could. I have a friend. His whole thing is doing the best you can religion. You're doing the best you can. Okay, that's good. God bless you. You're doing the best you can. Okay.

[James Patterson]

What did your father end up doing to make a living?

[Stephen King]

Well, the last thing he did after he retired, he retired at 60, 61. He actually wrote a novel. It didn't get published. But it was pretty good. It's pretty good. And that's what he wanted to do. He went to Hamilton, which is to go from where he was the poor house and to get into Hamilton. Leap. Unbelievable Leap. He's a bright guy. He didn't have a lot of confidence, you know, he just didn't think he could. He saw he sold insurance and then he actually did well. He worked for Prudential. He did well in the insurance stuff, but. But he didn't have the confidence. And he didn't instill confidence in myself and my sisters either, which was unfortunate. But my grandmother, she was the one, she said, listen, gonna be real about this stuff. You're not gonna play in the NBA, so forget about that. You don't go to your left very well. You're good. I could dunk in high school. He's a little white guy that could dunk, but. But you're not gonna make it. So. But you're. You. You are gonna be able to do stuff. And she had one of the lines, which I use it on substack is hungry dogs run faster. That was one of her things. And the other thing was, just go out and chop wood. Do it. Do it. You know, stop talking about writing your book. Go write the damn book. Seriously.

[James Patterson]

So I want to ask you about your Alex Cross series, which is like your longest running series of books. Did you know that you'd be capable of writing mysteries and thrillers?

[Stephen King]

No. And I. Somewhere in there, I think it was when I read Vanderbilt. I read. And I didn't read a lot of commercial novels at that point, but I read Day of the Jackal and the Exorcist. And I went, oh, these are cool. I like these. And maybe I could write something like that, the novel that had knocked me out, 100 years of solitude. And I said, I'm not capable of that. I thought I could write a literary, you know, an okay, you know, But I said, I don't really want to do that. I don't want to write for those people. Honestly, I'm not interested in those kinds of stories. But I said, maybe I could do something like Day of the Jackal, maybe, but I can't do 100 Years of Solitude. I don't have it in me. And that's what I'd like to do. But it's like, no, you're not gonna play in the NBA. Sorry. Yeah, I didn't have the confidence, and that's a big deal. And fortunately, down there, there was a professor, and I took One writing course. And he said, you have it. You have that. And it was a real conservative Southern guy. And I was hippie with the long hair and the whole whatever. I wish I had the long hair now, but. And that was a big confidence builder. That was huge for me. Huge. To have a professor, to have a published novelist. Say you have. Peter Taylor was another one. Peter Taylor. He read some of my stuff. But you have it really good short story writer who was at the University of Virginia.

[James Patterson]

So another question about religion. We talked a little about the Trappist monastery that you spent 10 days in and how it helped you decide to be a writer.

[Stephen King]

Yeah.

[Terry Gross]

Do you maintain any form of religion.

[James Patterson]

In your life, if that's not too personal to ask?

[Stephen King]

No, you know, yes. Something. Some connection that, you know, certainly the idea that things are bigger than me, which I think that isn't necessarily religious, but I think it's. I think it probably has its basis back in growing up Catholic. And there are things more important than you and whether that's a society or whatever the heck it is, or your family. So I've always had that.

[James Patterson]

You were an altar boy.

[Stephen King]

I was. I served Mass every day for, like, two years in a row. This is when I don't know how old I was. Nine, ten years old. Yeah.

[James Patterson]

What did it mean to you?

[Stephen King]

Well, I think in those days, and I think, like a lot of kids, I thought about, maybe I'll be a priest. That might be an interesting thing to do. I certainly respected the priests and the brothers and the nuns and what my mother taught in the school. We had, you know, priests and brothers in our house all the time. They wrecked two of our cars. A little too much wine, whatever. I don't know yet, honestly, you know. Oh, he hit a fire hydrant. Okay. That's okay, Father. No problem. And we didn't have money either. I mean, that was the other, like, oh, no. And my father was not Catholic, so he was especially not keen on that.

[James Patterson]

So I just really appreciate, like, I think so many, many, many people do, all the philanthropy you've done, the support of literacy, the support of independent bookstores, scholarships, funding school libraries. One thing I find especially endearing, which you've done, is giving bonuses to independent.

[Stephen King]

Booksellers and librarians a little bit, too. Yeah.

[James Patterson]

Yeah. That's such a nice touch because I'm sure they're all not paid very well. And it's such a personal thing to do. It's like acknowledging not just the institution or an abstract and, like, loving reading. It's honoring the individuals who do the work.

[Stephen King]

Yeah.

[James Patterson]

How did you come up with that?

[Stephen King]

I don't know. But you know, but the other piece of it, which just to your point. No, no, no, to your point is I get the nicest notes from people of all the things I do. They'll send these notes and they'll. Yeah. And some of them, you know, like for the first time in three years, I gave my parents presents this year because or I went to the dentist because of the, you know what I mean? And it's real and it's honest and they're so appreciative. And so that's a nice thing.

[James Patterson]

James Patterson, I want to thank you for this. And congratulations on the Lifelong Learning Award.

[Stephen King]

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[Terry Gross]

James Patterson's latest book is the number one dad book. The new novel he wrote with Bill Clinton will be published later this summer. Our thanks to WHYY's Nancy Stuske, Allie Lesperance and Yvette Murray. Coming up, if you think accordion is a corny and out of date instrument, stay tuned for some music that I think will change your mind. Jazz critic Martin Johnson will review the new solo accordion album by Will Holzhauser and will feature my interview with him. He brought his accordion and played. I'm Terry Gross, and this is FRESH AIR.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Hi, this is Molly C.V. nesberg, digital producer at FRESH AIR.

[James Patterson]

And this is Terry Gross, host of the show.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

One of the things I do is.

[James Patterson]

Write the weekly newsletter, and I'm a newsletter fan. I read it every Saturday after breakfast. The newsletter includes all the week shows, staff recommendations and Molly picks, timely highlights from the archive. It's a fun read.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

It's also the only place where we tell you what's coming up next week.

[James Patterson]

An exclusive, so [e-mail] fresh air, and look for an email from Molly every Saturday morning.

[Terry Gross]

The music of Will Holzhauser defies easy categorization. Streaming services have variously filed his albums as jazz, folk, even easy listening. There's more than a grain of truth to these classifications, but adjectives like elegant, ebullient and saucy fit much better and maybe ambitious. Holzhauser is an accordionist, and his new recording, the Lone Wild Bird is a solo effort, a rarity for a virtuoso on his instrument. Martin Johnson has this review, and after Martin's review, will hear my interview with Hulser. He brought his accordion and played.

[Martin Johnson]

Accordionist Will Holzhauser has played in a wide variety of bands, from violinist Regina Carter's jazz hybrid group Reverse Thread, to singer songwriters like Suzanne Vega and Rufus Wainwright, to klezmer bands, to his own trio Musette Explosion. On his latest recording, Lone Wild Bird, he goes it alone solo. The austere setting allows Holzhauser to really showcase the sound of his instrument and its versatility in the hymn like track that we just heard. It can be solemn and pensive, but it can also be boisterous and joyful. The setting also allows us to hear the inner workings of his instrument. Underneath the accordion sound are grunts and huffs from the air that gets pumped inside of it on the track. Avery he shakes the bellows on the instrument to create a rhythmic underpinning for the tune, almost as if he was accompanied by someone on the washboard. Holzhauser grew up in Cambridge, Massachusetts. He is the son of two ministers, so hymns were an early part of his musical diet. He was studying jazz piano and turned to accordion when a college pal gave him one as a gift. He was fascinated by the mechanics of the instrument and its versatility. It was a cornerstone in folk music from New Orleans to Madagascar, and Holzhauser, who is 56, was finding his way through his instrument's range at a time when exotic music was rapidly becoming more accessible via the recording boom of the 80s and 90s and the rise of the Internet shortly thereafter. It is this variety of music that is reflected on Lone Wild Bird. Holzhauser's original Three Glasses is a minor key and intimate tribute to composer Dmitri Shostakov Fidget Holzhauser's jazz roots are a prominent part of the program. Blue Waters reflects his interest in counterpoint and it has a bluesy feel. It's a tribute to jazz organ great Jimmy Smith. You might not get the collard greens and cornbread that Smith's music often evoked, but you can feel the soulful grit. Holzhauser's jazz interest also led him to the traditional hymn Abide With Me. The music dates back to the 19th century, but legendary jazz pianist and composer Thelonious Monk recorded an all horns arrangement. It made the accordionist ponder what would it have sounded like if Monk played the piano on the track. You can hear some of this idea here. For many music fans, the accordion will bring to mind the music of the Celtic punk rockers the Pogues, and Holzhauser touches on the Irish traditions on Reel to Reel, a tune written in part by his brother in law who makes violins and played in a band with his father, a first generation Irish immigrant. There aren't many rules for what you can and cannot do on a solo accordion recording, but it seems essential to address the Cajun tradition. And Holzhauser covers the New Orleans Waltz Chez Seychelles in tandem with Balfa Waltz to close out this stellar record. Sam.

[Terry Gross]

Martin Johnson writes about jazz for the Wall Street Journal and Downbeat. He reviewed the Lone Wild Bird by Will Holzhauser. I recorded an interview with Holzhauser a few years ago during which he played his accordion. We'll hear that after a break. This is FRESH air, Now that we've heard Martin Johnson's enthusiastic review of the new solo album the Lone Wild Bird by accordion player Will Holzhauser. Let's hear from Holzhauser. I spoke with him in 2014 when his album Introducing Musette Explosion was released. It features French waltzes and dances as well as original songs in the musette style. He brought his accordion to the studio and played.

[James Patterson]

Since I think most people don't have an accordion at home and don't get to see accordion very much, I'm assuming a lot of people aren't really familiar with what an accordion can really do and how it works. So give us a little tour of your very beautiful accordion.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Well, sure. Well, the on the right side, there's a keyboard, looks like a piano keyboard. And these keys, when you push a key, it opens a valve in the accordion, and that allows air to pass over metal reeds which are inside the box. So the nickname for it, one nickname for it is the squeeze box. So as you move the bellows back and forth, that generates the air. And then when you push the keys on the right hand or the buttons on the left hand, that lets the air through and the reeds sound. So my accordion has four sets of reeds. It can play very low notes on the right hand or very high notes. If you hit a there's these register switches. You can change the reed bank that's activated. So and then there are two middle sets of reeds which are slightly detuned. And you can also play all four sets together. So and then the left hand has buttons which in the standard accordion system are bass notes and chords. And this was made invented in the 19th century to play music that did that European music. And it's all based, of course, around the European tonal system. That system is called Stradella. There's a town in Italy called Stradella where it was invented. So it's a lot of fun. It's a very versatile instrument with a very wide range and wide dynamics the dynamics come from the bellows, which. It's often said the bellows in the accordion is like the bow of the violin. That's where you get dynamics, expression, and a whole host of other effects.

[James Patterson]

So manipulate the bellows differently to give us a sense of how the tone changes depending on how you're. What's the verb for what you do with the bellows? What's the right verb?

[Stephen King]

Bellowing.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Bellowing, I suppose. But. Yeah, well, it's. You know, it's mostly dynamics, but you can. The sound of the note does change as you change the air pressure.

[James Patterson]

So that's going from slow to fast in terms of what you're doing with the bellows.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Yeah. As you push harder, it gets louder as you push more air across the reed. And there's some special effects. If you open the valve halfway and push the air really hard, it can bend the pitch.

[James Patterson]

Whoa. I didn't know you could bend notes on accordion. Bend notes on a keyboard instrument. That's not a synthesizer. It's pretty, right? Pretty good. So I should ask you to play a song for us and your new album, Introducing Musette Explosion, is all musette, which is a type of French song. Tell us what the genre is.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Well, it's basically French dance hall music from the first half of the 20th century. And it's led. The accordion is the lead instrument. The guitar is also very important. And one of the standard forms in this type of music is the waltz. And to us as Americans, it sounds iconically French. But then if you look beneath the surface, it actually has a very multicultural family tree. So it began with French peasants in Paris playing an instrument called the musette, which was actually a little bagpipe. And then around 1900, there was a wave of Italian immigrants who brought the accordion and a lot of their music to Paris, and they kind of took over the dance halls. The accordion became the lead instrument. The bagpipe was forgotten, but left its name to the genre musette. And there were also a large Roma gypsy population in France, and they contributed a lot of their style to this genre. Also, some people say the Roma guitarists were the first ones to write waltzes in minor keys, which became a classic musette sound.

[James Patterson]

And the tradition that Django Reinhardt was from.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Exactly. His first gig was playing banjo in a musette dance.

[James Patterson]

Banjo, wow. Oh, you have banjo. You're a guitar player. Matt Monasteri plays banjo on some of the tracks.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

That's right.

[James Patterson]

On your album. Oh, yeah. Okay. So you should play one of the musettes from your album for us. Do you want to do Swing Falls?

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Sure. That sounds great.

[James Patterson]

What are you doing to your accordion?

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Oh, I was just making sure that I had the right register on.

[James Patterson]

Okay.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Because you can, depending on which register you have, you can get, you know, in a different octave or each one has a sort of different sound or different flavor.

[James Patterson]

And this is my guest, Will Holzhauser.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

All right. This is Swing Valse, written by Baro Ferre and Gus Visur.

[James Patterson]

Sa.

[Terry Gross]

That's great.

[James Patterson]

That's just so beautiful.

[Stephen King]

Thank you.

[James Patterson]

How were you first introduced to the songs known as Musette?

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Through reissues that came out in the 1990s. There's a great label in France called Fremeau and Associates. So I heard them and I was struck by this music and kind of blown away by how do they get these sounds out of the accordion? And Matt minasiri, my friend, felt the same way, and that's sort of how we started playing together. We were both interested in French musette, and it's so expressive, virtuosic. It's an unusual type of. Some of these tunes, especially Swing Valse, are hybrids of jazz and French music. So when some of these French Musette musicians fell in love with jazz in the 20s and 30s, they began to write these hybrid tunes that were, and hence the name Swing Valse, inspired by the American records that they were crazy about.

[Terry Gross]

We'll hear more of my interview with Will Holzhauser, and I'll play more music after a break. This is Fresh Air.

[James Patterson]

There's something very old fashioned and avant garde about the. About the accordion. And let me see if I can explain that. It seems old fashioned because in this era of, like, digital instruments and everything, like, you're physically pumping air into it, you're doing it manually to get the air over the reeds to create the sound. But there's something kind of avant garde about it because you can get all these really unusual overtones through this array of buttons, almost as if it was some kind of either synthesizer or organ where you're just creating unusual harmonics.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

It's true. And especially dissonance on the accordion. Playing notes very close together can bring out those overtones. And there's a whole range of effects you can get.

[James Patterson]

Go show us some effects you can get.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

All right. Well, here's some very high notes with special overtones. If you shake the bellows, you can make it shimmer like that. You can do these bending notes like I showed you before. There's sort of cluster, nice clusters you can get, letting your hand flop around on the keyboard, like a fish. There's rhythmic things you can do with the bellows. Sometimes when I play for my daughter's class, I'll do a train effect. The kids like that.

[James Patterson]

I like that too.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Anyway, so yeah, that's. And that's done by shaking the bellows back and forth. So, yeah, there are all kinds of things you can do. You know, you can use the breath, the breathing sound. And you just heard the bellows kind of squeezing, flopping together. So, yeah, there's a whole bunch of effects you can get.

[James Patterson]

I love it.

[Terry Gross]

I love it.

[James Patterson]

There's an original song I'm going to ask you to play that you do on your new album, the Musette Explosion. And this is an original song in the style of a French musette. And it's called Chanson Pop, which translates to pop song.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Yes.

[James Patterson]

So would you talk about composing it? And there's two different parts to the song. It's like a six minute piece on the recording. I'm going to ask you to play an excerpt of the opening melody and then we'll talk about that and then we'll play an excerpt. I'm going to ask you to play.

[Terry Gross]

An excerpt from Deeper In.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Okay, so.

[Terry Gross]

But give us an overview of this piece and writing it and what your intention was.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Well, one of the kinds of work that I've really enjoyed doing as an accordionist in New York over the last 20 years or so is accompanying singers. And I've had great pleasure to accompany some singers that do French repertoire from the chanson tradition, which of course just means song, but it's. For example, the most famous exponent of the chanson tradition is Edith Piaf. And for a while I was playing with a great singer from France named Michel Herman. And I was the only accompanist. It was really fun because I was. It was just vocals and accordion, so I was the entire backdrop.

[James Patterson]

And.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

And he would. He was very good at coaching me in developing these accompaniments. He said a song, one of these songs is like a movie. So this verse is one scene and you need to create a backdrop. Maybe it's like a sunny day or something. Then the next verse or the next part of the song is totally different. Create a different backdrop. So to me, learning about that tradition, which is a little different from the musette. The musette tradition is more the waltzes, the dances, the dance music. And the chanson tradition is more the poetic songwriting. There's some overlap, but this piece, I was thinking of some of those Piaffe songs and not really trying to imitate them, but sort of trying to tap into the wonderful grandiosity of of some of those pieces. So I'll play the opening melody first.

[James Patterson]

Perfect.

[Terry Gross]

Yes.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Okay.

[James Patterson]

That's beautiful. And that's Will Holzhauser in our studio playing the opening of his song Chanson Pop. And I know you said that that's based on like Chanson French song. To me it sounds like it's also based on hymns.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Okay.

[James Patterson]

And I know that your father was a minister.

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

That's right.

[James Patterson]

And I imagine you heard a lot of hymns growing up. Do you hear a little hymn like quality in that piece?

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

You're a very perceptive listener.

[Terry Gross]

Aren't I?

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

Yes, absolutely. And that's really, for me, that's almost the very beginning of my musical life. My interest in music is going to church as a kid and hearing these hymns and feeling something stirring inside me that I couldn't describe. You know, feeling almost like a kind of truth or something. That was a very direct experience and that I really couldn't put into words.

[James Patterson]

Was it a combination of beautiful music in a sacred place?

[Molly C.V. Nesberg]

I think so. Yeah. It was. You know, clearly people coming together to be quiet and to think about serious things and that. My first music teacher was the artist in residence at our church, and he wrote jazz for the services. His name is Douglas Cook, and he wrote very beautiful, very dissonant, meditative jazz that would be in the services. So for me, that's the beginning of a lot of my what I like about music is the hymns, the music that Doug wrote in our service. And to me, it's music. That's what's great about music is it's this internal language that we can all share. It's accessible to everybody.

[Terry Gross]

My interview with Will Holzhauser was recorded in 2014. He has a new solo accordion album called the Lone Wild Bird. Tomorrow on FRESH AIR, we'll talk about how J.D. vance rose from a struggling Ohio steel town to Yale Law School to venture capital and now the vice presidency. Along the way, he shed old convictions and and adopted new ones, some deeply divisive. We'll talk with Atlantic magazine staff writer George Packer about Vance's transformation and what it reveals about the future of American politics. I hope you'll join us.

[James Patterson]

To keep.

[Terry Gross]

Up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews. Follow us on Instagram PRFresh Air Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham with additional engineering today from Adam Stanischewski, our managing producer is Sam Brigger. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Anne Marie Boldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thaya Chaloner, Susan Yakundi and Anna Bauman. Our digital media producer is Molly Sivi Nesbur. Our consulting visual producer is Hope Wilson. Roberta Shorrock directs the show. Our co host is Tanya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross.

[James Patterson]

It.