Dwayne Johnson (4:52)

Thank you, Terry. Good to talk with you.

Terry Gross (4:54)

I read that you considered becoming a mixed martial arts fighter, but you didn't. Why did you consider it and why did you not do it yourself?

Dwayne Johnson (5:04)

First of all, I realize I don't like getting punched in the face, so I prefer not to, as these guys do. But in 1997, I was wrestling for the WWE and my career at that time wasn't going as planned and it was actually going backwards and I wasn't making much progress and I wound up getting hurt. I tore a ligament in my knee and so I went home. And when I was sitting at home, that's when I really started to question whether or not I was on the right path of being a professional wrestler. And the reason why I considered MMA at that time was because guys like Mark Kerr, who I met, and a lot of his MMA fighting buddies at that time, from Mark Coleman, Kevin Randleman, Don Frey, these are all guys who ultimately went on to become legends and godfathers of the world of mma. And those guys were. Were making a lot more money, and they were wrestling out of Japan. And at that time, I was wrestling approximately 235 to 250 nights a year, so I was never home, and I was wrestling every single night in a different city. And so the wear and tear of my body was already beginning to set in, and it was just year one for me. So at that time, I. I began to consider a career in mma, thinking, I know they're making triple the money that I'm making, and they're only fighting maybe five to eight times a year. So I did consider it. And it was the summer of 1997, and as I was rehabbing my knee, I got a call from the wwe who said that, we're going to bring you back at the end of the summer, but there's gonna be one difference. And I said, what's that? And they said, we're going to make you a heel. And so in wrestling, a villain. A villain, yeah, exactly. And that's that parlance. Babyface is a good guy, heel is a villain. And they said, we're gonna make you a heel when you come back. I said, great, I just want any kind of change. And I went back as a villain. And probably about three months later, the rest was history, and I took on the Persona of the Rock.

Terry Gross (7:30)

Can you describe the difference between your babyface Persona and your Persona as the Rock?

Dwayne Johnson (7:36)

So my original name when I went in to WWE was Rocky Maivia, and I hated that name because it was. When I got into wrestling, as you said in my introduction, my grandfather was a pro wrestler. My dad was a pro wrestler. My grandmother was one of the first female promoters in pro wrestling. So I came from a long lineage, and while very proud of my family's history in pro wrestling, I also wanted to make it on my own, and I wanted to carve my own path. And so they came up. WWE came up with this name, Rocky Maivia, a combination of my dad's name, Rocky Johnson, and my grandfather's name, High Chief Peter Maivia. So it was showing respect to my family lineage and all part of the Good Guy babyface Persona. And I remember having a conversation with Vince McMahon, who was the owner at that time of WWE, and he said, when you go out every night, I want you to smile. I said, can I ask you why? He goes, I want to make sure that the crowd thinks and knows that you're grateful to be here and you're grateful for the opportunity. So I always want you smiling. I want you to be the quintessential baby face. And I remember at that time Terry thinking, well, I feel like there might be other ways for me to show how grateful I am. But also, this is a performance. And even before I went out with my big smiles, as requested from wwe, it just didn't feel right to me. So I made my debut and my very first match in wwe, which was actually my very first match ever, and that was in Madison Square Garden. And I went out and we had my match, and I wind up winning the whole thing, which was a pretty incredible night. And the smiles were consistent. Every night, I would smile. But then what happened quite quickly is the fans picked up on that, and it wasn't good because they felt, and it was true, that I wasn't being just real and authentic, and they began to turn on me.

Terry Gross (9:56)

When you won that first match, did you know you were gonna win? Was it choreographed for you to win?

Dwayne Johnson (10:00)

Oh, yeah. So that's the world of pro wrestling is, you know, and we're well aware of who's gonna win that night and who's not. That's why I'm always careful to say, not to say how many people actually beat, because it's actually. I didn't, you know, and they allowed it to happen. So everybody supports everybo. But, yes, I did know that.

Terry Gross (10:19)

Okay, so compare the babyface to the Rock.

Dwayne Johnson (10:22)

Mm. So now when I get the call from WWE and says, hey, after your injury, when you heal up at the end of the summer, we're gonna bring you back as a heel. And then that night, I got on the microphone and I said, rocky Maivia is a lot of things, because they were chanting, rocky sucks, which was a lot of fun. In that world, when you have 20,000 people. Well, here's the thing. And in that world, when you're a good guy and they're chanting Rocky sucks, that's a death sentence. Now, when you're a bad guy and you say, hey, I may be a lot of things, but sucks isn't one of them. Then I said something that really lit the crowd, and they just booed even more. But it was different back then, because then I became a heel that night, and. And within three months, I became the hottest heel in the company, and the ascension happened pretty quick. But you know what, Terry? It was. That moment was so defining for me because it really allowed me to step into my power. And what I mean by that is just being real and authentic. And even in this crazy world of pro wrestling, every time I grabbed the microphone and I said something or every action that I did came from a very, very real place. And it was like, instantaneously, the crowd knew it, and they said, oh, this guy's holding up a mirror. That's who he is. And we love it. And then the Rock was born.

Terry Gross (11:56)

So there's a scene in the new movie the Smashing Machine where we see that Mark her is known for the body takedown by grabbing his opponent by the legs, by the back of his legs, and pulling up his legs so that the opponent is flat on his back, while Kerr stands over him and smashes his face till it's all bloodied and you know the match has to end. There was a similar scene in your wrestling career. This was, I think, WrestleMania 14 against Ken Shamrock. And Shamrock knocks you out, gets you in an ankle hold. The announcers are speculating that he's broken your ankle. You're bleeding from the mouth. I can't tell if the blood is real. Your head is hanging over the edge of the ring, and you're taken away on a stretcher, and Shamrock has won. The referee reverses his decision and declares you the winner because Shamrock refused to break the ankle hold. He gets into a rage. He literally throws the ref out of his way, runs over to the stretcher as you're being wheeled out of the arena and starts attacking you. So how much of that is staged and how much of that was real? Were you really hurt? Was that real blood?

Dwayne Johnson (13:09)

In professional wrestling, it is always and only real blood. And that's the truth. That night was WrestleMania, and I knew what the finish of the match was going to be. I knew that he was not going to break the ankle lock and the referee was going to reverse the decision. We knew that. We talked backstage. We rehearsed for hours and hours and hours. And prior to us getting to WrestleMania, myself and Ken Shamrock, we were already wrestling each other every night on the road. So by the time we got to WrestleMania, we had our chemistry, we had our alchemy, and we had a really, really great match that night. So the reason why I was bleeding from the mouth is because he suplexed me. And this is where a lot of times in wrestling you can train, you can have your techniques, you can do your best to protect your guy, your dance partner, as we call it, but sometimes just things hurt and you land in a way that hurts. So he suplexed me and I landed in a way that really, for the moment, damaged my lungs and blood vessels.

Terry Gross (14:14)

Oh.

Dwayne Johnson (14:15)

And that's why I was spitting up blood. So that was part of the match that we didn't plan, but just. But just happens. So I was on the stretcher, which I knew the ambulance was going to come and take me out. It was all part of the finish. So I did know everything that was going to happen that night, but I did not know that I was gonna start bleeding from my lungs.

Terry Gross (14:36)

Oh, that sounds horrible. Did Shamrock know you were bleeding for real and that you were seriously injured?

Dwayne Johnson (14:41)

He did. He asked me there's ways that wrestlers can talk in the ring. And he says, hey, are you okay? And I said, I feel like I'm okay. At least I could breathe. Let's get through the match. And so we finished the match. And I think, you know, looking back, it was one of those that's happened to me a few times, and it's happened to a lot of wrestlers too, as well. If you're falling from 6, 8, 10ft and you land in a certain way, it's just the nature of the landing sometimes.

Terry Gross (15:06)

My guest is Dwayne Johnson. He produced and stars in the new film the Smashing Machine. We'll hear more of our conversation after a break. I'm Terry Gross and this is FRESH AIR Weekend.

Announcer (15:17)

This message comes from Dell Technologies. The new Dell PC with Intel Core Ultra helps you fast forward through busy work, leaving more time for you. Time Get A new Dell PC@dell.com AI PC support for this podcast and the following message come from Ameriprise Financial Chief Economist Russell Price shares a key investment principle.

Cristela Alonso (15:43)

Market trends tend to tell us that time is on the side of the investor. Remaining invested through periods of highs and lows is generally one of the better ways to build wealth over the long term.

Announcer (15:55)

For more information and important disclosures, visit ameriprise.com advice. Past performance is not a guarantee of future results. Security is offered by ameriprise Financial Services, llc, member FINRA and sipc. This message comes from Wise, the app for using money around the globe. When you manage your money with Wise, you'll always get the mid market exchange rate with no hidden fees. Join millions of customers and visit wise.com Ts and Cs apply.

Terry Gross (16:25)

So let's talk about your family. You're from A wrestling family. Your father was Rocky Johnson, one of the first black wrestlers, and he's in the WWE hall of Fame. Your maternal grandfather was high chief Peter Maivia, who was very well known in Samoa, professional wrestler. And your grandmother, his wife took over the Polynesian Pacific Pro Wrestling Organization after your grandfather died. And how did wrestling change between your grandfather, your father, and your era?

Dwayne Johnson (17:01)

Good question. It became global and it became publicly traded. And it evolved from wrestling in very, very small venues to stadiums throughout our country and around the world. And I was lucky in a way, Terry, in that my era, when I came into pro wrestling in the 90s, that was like the last man standing in terms of small promotions. So when I first got into pro wrestling, I didn't immediately go to the WWE because I wasn't ready and I was still green and I needed experience. So, fortunately, there was a wrestling company called the uswa, and that wrestling company was based out of Nashville and based out of Memphis, and I lived in Memphis, and that's where I started. And the reason why I say I was really lucky in that, because it allowed me to cut my teeth. Every night I would wrestle in flea markets and barns and used car dealerships where people would come to buy a used car and there would be a ring in the parking lot and you would see wrestlers. And I had a. My guarantee for wrestling, a match every day was 40 bucks. That was my guarantee. So we're making no money and really starving, but you just love to do it. So wrestling had changed and evolved from my grandfather to my dad to me in the wwe. But I was really lucky that before I got to the wwe, I was still able to learn that way and learn on the road.

Terry Gross (18:49)

You were in the ring together with your father.

Dwayne Johnson (18:52)

Yeah.

Terry Gross (18:53)

There's a lot of highlights of your fights on YouTube, and in one of them, you're just fighting alone. And I'm trying to remember who your opponent is. But anyways, he's got you down, and you look like you're in pain. And then your father kind of rushes into the ring. He's wearing, like, a sports jacket, and he rips off the sports jacket, and he kind of rescues you. And then, like, the Sultan comes in with a flag on a pole, and he takes the pole and he starts beating your father on the back. And every time the pole connects to your father's back, the Sultan, like, stomps his foot to make it sound as if the pole is making that kind of noise, smashing against your father's back. And it's kind of Funny. That must have been a fun experience for you.

Dwayne Johnson (19:42)

It was awesome. That was what you're referring to. That was WrestleMania. And that was my very first WrestleMania match, WrestleMania 13 in Chicago. That was when I was a good guy, the babyface, the rookie. And I was intercontinental champion for WWE at that time. And the bad guys were beating me up. And then my dad comes in and he helps make the save. And we. In wrestling parlance, it's called cleaning house. So the baby faces, the good guys start cleaning house, meaning, you know, they're. They're just beating up the bad guys and throwing them out of the ring. And ultimately the good guys, the baby faces, are left standing in the ring. And that, like a nice father and son moment, that was. It was really cool. I wasn't at that time, again, I was kind of struggling with that because I felt like, wait, I still want to try and create my own path. And I remember thinking, if my dad comes out and he's involved, it's not aligned with what I want to do and trying to make my own path here. But I still. I said, okay, let's do it. And we did it. And it was a nice moment, but, you know, I realized what actually it meant for him, which that was a highlight for him. And he has said that that was the highlight of his entire career, which meant a lot to me, because my dad, he did trailblaze, and he and his tag team partner, Tony Atlas, they became the first black tag team champions of wwe. And even in the world of wwe, that's fictionalized and, you know, rehearsed, and you know who's gonna win and you know who's gonna lose. And when somebody becomes champion, the decision is made from an office that this man or this woman is going to become champion. But why this was so significant in terms of, I think, culture and black culture and them becoming the first black tag team champions is because it signified that they really were trailblazing at that time. And in the early 80s, there was still a lot of racism that was present, and especially in these small arenas in these small towns around, you know, around the country where the audience was predominantly white. They cheered these guys. And that's why Vince, at that time. Vince McMahon.

Terry Gross (22:02)

Vince McMahon, yeah. Yeah.

Dwayne Johnson (22:03)

He's like, you know what? You guys need to become champions because you guys are changing the behavior of people. And that's what one of the qualities of trailblazing is, when you. When you're able to change the behavior of somebody. And that's what they did. So the Reason why I share that was because that, to me, that was my dad's greatest accomplishment, which was him becoming first Black Tag Team Champions. But my dad always referenced that moment when he and I were in the ring together at WrestleMania as his greatest achievement. So I'm glad it happened for him, because even despite our complicated relationship, I think it's just the love of a son that you'll always be. Just that you'll be the son of your dad, and you always want to make your dad happy, you know, despite all the stuff you go through.

Terry Gross (22:52)

Complicated guy, complicated relationship. So before we run out of time, I'm going to transition from fighting to singing. I like your voice. I've only heard you sing twice. I heard the Eric Clapton song that you sang and played in the ring to Vicki Guerrero, and then, of course, in Moana. You sing in that, too. Did you think of yourself ever as a singer before, like singing on film for the animated film?

Dwayne Johnson (23:26)

I grew up singing, and in our. In our family, I'm half black and half Samoan. And in my culture, especially on the Polynesian side, singing and dancing was ever present in our household with my dad as well. And so we grew up that way. And my mom, who will listen to this and is going to love this entire interview, she still carries a ukulele with her everywhere she goes. Terry. Everywhere. Everywhere she goes, she's known, oh, here comes. Here comes the ukulele lady. And then she'll remind everybody, no, I'm the rock's mom, and she'll sing. So we grew up singing, and I grew up singing. Sam Cooke and Elvis and Hawaiian artists and Hawaiian songs and Polynesian songs. And in our household, it was like, we'd sing Don Ho. Tiny Bubble. Tiny bubble, right? You hear him sing and, like, kind of crooning his way through our household.

Terry Gross (24:30)

So if this was the 1960s, you would be recording an album. Clint Eastwood recorded an album. George Maharis recorded an album. I mean, lots of, like, TV and movie stars, whether they could sing or not, recorded albums. You gonna record an album? I'm not making you an offer. It's not my place to do that.

Dwayne Johnson (24:48)

If we were in the 60s, right now, that means Sam Cooke would be alive. And me and Sam Cooke, it would be like, oh, you're the apple of my eye, my cherry pie, my Coke and ice cream. All right, that's all I got.

Terry Gross (25:06)

Thank you for that. It's been such a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you so much. Congratulation on the new movie. I think it really takes your acting career to a new level.

Dwayne Johnson (25:15)

Really appreciate it. It's really good talking to you.

Terry Gross (25:18)

Dwayne Johnson stars in the new movie the Smashing Machine, based on the life of former MMA champion Mark Kerr. Here's Johnson singing the Lin Manuel Miranda song, you're welcome. From the Disney animated film Moana.

Dwayne Johnson (25:33)

Okay, okay. I see what's happening. Yeah. You're face to face with greatness, and it's strange. You don't even know how you feel. It's adorable. Well, it's nice to see that humans never change. Open your eyes. Let's begin. Yes, it's really me. It's Maui. Breathe it in. I know it's a lot. The head, the pod. When you're staring at a demigod, what can I say? Except you're welcome. For the tides, the sun, the sky. Hey, it's okay. It's okay. You're welcome. I'm just an ordinary demiguy. Hey, what has since?

Terry Gross (26:18)

If you're not familiar with the comedy of my next guest, Cristela Alonso, I think the best way of introducing her is with a clip. But first I should set it up. Cristela is Mexican American, the daughter of Mexican immigrants. Her mother was living in Texas, undocumented and pregnant with Cristela, her fourth child, when she left her abusive husband, she raised her four children on her own. Cristela grew up in a Texas border town. This clip, like much of Cristela's comedy, is autobiographical.

Cristela Alonso (26:48)

My family, we're from South Texas. You know, we're from Mexico, and that's South Texas. It's South Texas is kind of South Texas. It's like South Texas. I grew up in a mixed status family. If you guys don't know what that is, that means that half of us were documented, half of us were undocumented, and we're not telling you which one's which. Guess what? We all look alike. We didn't have a lot of money growing up. You know, we had to share a bathroom and a birth certificate. It sucks.

Terry Gross (27:29)

That was from Cristela Alonso's first Netflix comedy special from 2017 called Lower Classy. It was followed by her 2022 special, Middle Classy. Her new one, Upper Classy, is now streaming on Netflix. You can tell from the titles that class and money have been defining issues in her life. Because she grew up in extreme poverty for the first seven years of her life, Christella, her mother, and three siblings were squatters in an abandoned diner in Texas with a toilet on the outside. Cristela managed to get into a Theater program in high school, win theater awards, study theater in college, but had to put her own dreams and ambitions on hold and quit college twice to care for her mother and help her sister raise her children. Eventually, Cristela broke through by performing across the country on college campuses. In 2014, she became the first Latina to create, write, and star in a network TV show. Her semi autobiographical sitcom, Cristella, ran for one season on abc. Cristela Alonso, welcome to Fresh air. It is a pleasure to have you on the show.

Cristela Alonso (28:38)

It is so good to be here. And I love hearing you sum up my life, because I think that sometimes we forget the things that we have gone through in our own lives. So to hear it from someone else is kind of a really wonderful reminder.

Terry Gross (28:55)

Oh, good. Can we talk about. What the clip was about was that half of your family was undocumented. Can we talk about that without worrying about your family being deported now?

Cristela Alonso (29:07)

Yes, we can. They're all citizens now, so that's very exciting.

Terry Gross (29:11)

How old were you when your mother became a citizen?

Cristela Alonso (29:14)

Well, actually, she ended up getting her resident alien card. That's the highest she got. I was about 10 years old when she got her card. So for the first 10 years, it was a lot of us trying to protect her when we were in public.

Terry Gross (29:29)

How would you do that?

Cristela Alonso (29:30)

Well, you know, in the border town that I grew up in, in McAllen, Texas, we. It's a border town, so you had border patrol agents out in public, you know, just kind of living amongst you because they were working near the border. So if we went out to eat and there was one of them there, my mom would have us, you know, either try to make some noise, pretend that we're throwing a tantrum so that she has to take us of the building immediately to protect her. And we would have to play along because we wanted to make sure that she was safe.

Terry Gross (30:06)

How worried were you at the time?

Cristela Alonso (30:08)

I was terrified. You always wanted to make sure that you did your job well enough to where you were hoping that your mother wouldn't be taken away from you. And I was an American citizen, and it's weird to have that much power as a little kid and that much stress. And I think that's why with what is happening now, living in Los Angeles and seeing the ICE raids, it reminds me of me being a child trying to protect my mother. And I had forgotten the feelings until I saw what was happening now, and it brought it all back.

Terry Gross (30:49)

What has it been like for you recently in la, and what was it like for you when the National Guard troops and Marines were just showing up.

Cristela Alonso (30:56)

In la, it was kind of unbelievable. You ask yourself, you live in the United States and you live in Los Angeles, one of the biggest cities in the country, and it's happening here. So there was a moment of disbelief. And then once you realize that it was happening, I personally started remembering the immigration sweeps that happened in the 80s in my hometown, where a lot of times you would not see your friends anymore because their parents had been deported, their immigration raid came and like just deported people at a factory, at a company, what have you.

Terry Gross (31:36)

You grew up in a border town on the American side of the Texas border, and the town was just about all Mexican and Mexican American. And you used to cross over the border a lot to visit family on the other side in Mexico. What was crossing the border like then? This was in the 1980s during the Reagan administration.

Cristela Alonso (31:56)

Yes. Back then, you didn't need a passport, you needed a birth certificate. Passports kind of became a required thing. Later on, when I became kind of, I want to say, around a preteen teenager, you could just pass back and forth as long as you had the birth certificate. A lot of times when you're a child, you're crossing the border and the Border Patrol agents want to ask you all of these questions to make sure that you are who you are, that you're not someone from Mexico that they're trying to bring in, you know, quote unquote, illegally. So they ask you for your name, they ask you how old you are, and then they kind of go off of your answers and decide, what more am I going to ask her? So as a little kid, it's what's your favorite school subject? Who's the name of your favorite teacher? What's the name of your elementary school? And it's all of these questions. And I remember going through the border one time with a cousin of mine who's older than me, and he was a little bit on the spectrum and had trouble answering a couple of questions, and they detained him and we were held over for a long time. And that is something really heavy to deal with. But at the same time, it became kind of your normal thing, your normal way of life that you were so used to it that, again, you didn't realize how big it was until later, until you got older.

Terry Gross (33:23)

My guest is comic and actress Cristella Alonso. Her new Netflix comedy special is called Upper Classy. We'll hear more of our conversation after a short break. This is FRESH AIR weekend.

Announcer (33:35)

This message comes from NPR sponsor Capella University. Sometimes it takes a different approach to pursue your goals. Capella is an online university accredited by the Higher Learning Commission. That means you can earn your degree from wherever you are and be confident your education is relevant, recognized and respected. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more about earning a relevant degree@capella.edu. this message comes from NPR sponsor 1Password Protect your digital life with 1Password if you're tired of family members constantly texting you for the passwords to streaming services, 1Password lets you securely share or remove access to logins access from any device anytime. 1Password lets you securely switch between iPhone, Android, Mac and PC with convenient features like autofill for quick sign ins. Right now get a free two week trial for you and your family@1Password.com NPR.

Terry Gross (34:37)

Your mother raised you, your sister and two brothers, that's four kids on her own. And she was on her own because she left her abusive husband. Would you describe how she ended up being married to him against her will?

Cristela Alonso (34:49)

Yes. So my mom grew up in a little village in a little ranchito in Mexico called El San Carron. Back then it was like in the middle of nowhere. And my mom grew up very Catholic and it was this thing where her parents were very strict, her mother was very strict, and people couldn't date. You actually had a lot of arranged marriages a lot of times where girls would be engaged to older men, you know, because the men had all the power. And the men, if there wasn't an arranged marriage, the men had all the power where they could kidnap the women and take them from their house.

Terry Gross (35:30)

Do you mean literally kidnap?

Cristela Alonso (35:31)

Yes. So the women, once they were taken from their home, they were basically this man's property. And that's how my mom and my dad ended up together. And it was this culture, this environment where the women were submissive to the men. You know, my mom and my dad got married through the church, so they couldn't divorce. You know, my mom left my dad, but they never divorced because they were Catholic. That was how much my mom couldn't do it. So she stayed married to him. But after they got married, because he was the man, he would drink a lot, be very physically abusive to her, had another family. That's the thing that made my mom leave my dad when she discovered, well.

Terry Gross (36:15)

The church doesn't approve of that.

Cristela Alonso (36:17)

Absolutely, you know. Absolutely. So it was this thing where, you know, church. She became the first woman in her family to leave her husband. You never left your husband. You didn't Divorce. You didn't separate. You stuck through and you dealt with it. And she decided to leave him with. I mean, this woman had, like, a second grade education, couldn't speak the language here, and she decided that that was better than staying married to my dad.

Terry Gross (36:43)

So they were. This is at the point where they're already in the US they had been.

Cristela Alonso (36:47)

Coming back and forth from the US And Mexico. So they would come here and then they'd go back to Mexico. They were trying to establish a life here, but then they would go back for a couple years. It's one of those. It's really off and on. That's the thing that I think is one of those perspectives in immigration that we don't talk about enough, is immigrants come to this country mostly out of a need. It's in search of this opportunity that they don't have at home. But if my parents could have made it happen, if they could have had a decent life, they would have stayed in their home, they would have stayed in Mexico. But they decided ultimately the United States was a better opportunity for their children. And, you know, when my mom left my dad, because she was such a Catholic woman, she told my dad that his punishment for being such a terrible person is to have no contact with his children ever again. And he was never going to be allowed to ever meet me. And I never met my father my entire life. There were times where he tried to reach out, and my mom never let him because she didn't want me sullied by having known him.

Terry Gross (38:07)

So your family was so poor and your mother was supporting the family, four children on her own. What kind of job did she have?

Cristela Alonso (38:16)

She was trying to do any kind of physical labor that she could do. She would clean houses. She started washing dishes at a restaurant, at a Mexican restaurant, and then she eventually became a cook at another restaurant at a Mexican restaurant. So she started working nights, the dinner shift, and then she realized that she needed more money, so she started working double shifts. So she worked double shifts for years, and she would make about $150 a week.

Terry Gross (38:49)

Whoa.

Cristela Alonso (38:49)

That was her pay.

Terry Gross (38:51)

How do you support five people on that?

Cristela Alonso (38:53)

You don't. It was really hard. The way to survive is a lot of rice and beans. You ate the same thing over and over again. A lot of times where we didn't have any utilities, any. Any electricity, you kind of made do with that. A lot of times we didn't have hot water. First of all, in the diner, we had this extended.

Terry Gross (39:14)

Can I just explain again that you were squatting the family was squatting in an abandoned diner.

Cristela Alonso (39:19)

Yeah, we were. We were squatting in this abandoned diner on the main street of my little hometown, San Juan, Texas. It's Nebraska Street. And this little diner, we had neighbors. There was a little house next to this diner. And my mom used to use an extension cord. They would let her use an extension cord for a fee. Like she would pay the neighbors a little bit to borrow some electricity. And in the winter, she would have the space heater. And this is before the space heaters had safety features that would turn off the heater when they tipped over. So my mom would have the space heater and put the heat facing up. And that's how she would cook food on this space heater.

Terry Gross (40:02)

That sounds really dangerous.

Cristela Alonso (40:04)

It is. But, you know, being hungry is even worse. You know, in the winter when it was cold, she used to have this like. Like a 10 gallon pickle tub from work that she would fill up with water and she would warm it up. And that's how we used to shower. We used to stand in the middle of this washtub. She'd fill up this big bucket of water, warm water that she warmed up in the space heater. We would get a little cup and we would. We would fill the cup with water and then pour it on our bodies. And that's how we showered in the winter.

Terry Gross (40:42)

Were you known as the family that lives in the abandoned diner?

Cristela Alonso (40:46)

No, we were very private. We didn't really have a lot of friends outside of our family. We were very insulated. And I never told anybody where I lived.

Terry Gross (40:56)

It must be so interesting to be on stage doing comedy about all these horrible things from your childhood that you could have been in legal jeopardy for that a lot of your family could have been deported for. And now you found a way on stage to make that funny and of course, to make it very public.

Cristela Alonso (41:16)

I think it's so necessary to talk about it, though, because I realized that people need to know that despite how I grew up, that I was able to go to school, I was able to be a great student. I kind of wanted to show people that the narrative that is presented about someone like me or like my family wasn't true for everybody. A lot of times, if you're not familiar with the Latino community or namely, like Mexican Americans or anything. When I moved to college, I went to College in St. Louis for a year when I first moved. And it was the first time that I realized I was a minority. And it wasn't until I moved away from my Mexican Little border town that I realized that people were going to treat me the way that they thought I should be treated based on their assumptions on who I am. Meaning that if they were unfamiliar with me, they would ask me a lot of tropey, stereotypical, offensive questions that I would have to answer because they wanted to get to know me.

Terry Gross (42:35)

What kind of questions?

Cristela Alonso (42:36)

They wanted to know how I was smart.

Terry Gross (42:39)

How could that be possible?

Cristela Alonso (42:40)

Yeah. People thought I was lying about how poor I grew up because I spoke so well.

Terry Gross (42:46)

Let me stop you for a second. Is that because you watched so much TV when you were a kid, you had to stay home? TV was your friend. Music was your friend. You learned a lot about America from tv. Is that where you learned, like this perfect English, no accent kind of sound?

Cristela Alonso (43:04)

Yes. My mom had this rule. My mom was a Spanish speaker. Never spoke English. She had a rule at home. We couldn't speak English. At home, we had to speak Spanish so that she knew she could understand everything that was being said in the house. Having said that, when I was a kid, I loved TV so much, I started imitating what I heard on tv. The voices, the accents, everything. That's how I learned English. But when I was a kid, I loved shows like Murphy Brown, I don't know why. And I think the closest thing that I could understand is my mom used to make me translate the news to her as a little kid. So when I was a little kid, I'm translating all of these big things, these big ideas to my mom. So I think that when I watched Murphy Brown, I recognized some of the names from the news, but. And it made me feel smart. It's like, like this kind of comedy. The words, the vocabulary. I was a big word nerd. I did all the spelling bees. You know, I, I, I, I did the scripts, spelling bee, like the regional when I was in fifth grade. I love vocabulary and I just liked learning. I was a big public library person. I would go to the library. That's how I spent my summer vacations. When I was a kid, I would go to the public library and read because it was free.

Terry Gross (44:28)

So your mother told you that dreams were for people with money and you didn't have any. So I want to play another clip of your comedy. And this is about your dreams and your fantasies. And it's from your first Netflix comedy special called Lower Classy.

Cristela Alonso (44:45)

When I was in fourth grade, I realized I was poor because I was a really big fan of New Kids on the Block. Loved them. Right. I couldn't afford to see Them in concert, right? So I had this fantasy when I was a kid, you know, that I was gonna meet them and they were gonna fall in love with me, right? No joke, you guys. This was the fantasy. Fourth grade, I was gonna be the maid on their tour bus, and I was gonna clean things so good that they were gonna fall in love with me. Like, in my head, I thought they were gonna get on the tour bus, and they were gonna be like, oh, my God, who made that bed right there? You know what I mean? Oh, my God, this tour bus is so clean. Who made that bed right there? Who made that bed right there? Who made that bed right there? You know, like, yes, yes. And then I would say, I made that bed, and they would be like, we love you now. And I'm like, ah, that was it. That was in fourth grade. Then 20 years later, I thought about that story. I looked back, and I was thinking, why the I am maid in my own fantasy? Like, even in my fantasy, I can't give Latinos better jobs? And then I started thinking about it, and you know why? It's because a lot of the women I knew, that's what they did for a living. They cooked at restaurants. They cleaned houses. They came here and had those jobs to get a better life so that their kids didn't have to do those jobs. And when I understood that, I realized that as a woman, I wanted to break that glass ceiling, you know?

Announcer (46:45)

Yeah.

Cristela Alonso (46:52)

But as a Mexican, I want to clean that, too. You know what I mean?

Terry Gross (47:01)

So that's my guest, Cristela Alonso, from her first comedy special, Lower Classy. Her new comedy special on Netflix is called Upper Classy. So that's a really, really funny and really, really revealing clip. But you did have a dream, Like, a real dream. Your dream was to be in theater.

Cristela Alonso (47:21)

I did.

Terry Gross (47:22)

How'd you discover it?

Cristela Alonso (47:25)

I was in choir in junior high. The school got the choir program defunded, so I had to switch. I wanted to do something in the arts still. So eighth grade, I switched over to theater. I had this, like, really basic acting class. My teacher, Mr. Honnell, had this exercise. It's very Chorus Line. You know, he's like, I want everybody to pick an appliance and that they're going to act out. They're going to pretend to be. And then when I say, go, you're going to act out that appliance. Make the noise of it, blah, blah, blah. And he said that, and I didn't do anything because I thought it was so ridiculous. And then he came over to me, and he's like, why aren't you doing it? And I'm like, I am. I'm a vacuum cleaner, and I'm broken. And literally the next day, I get called in to the office, the principal's office, and the principal tells me that my drama teacher, Mr. Honnell, has changed my schedule to put me into this advanced theater class. I had no idea what that was. Got so upset, Went to him, went to his room, got so upset because my best friend and I were going to have different lunch periods. And that made me furious. He was like, you need to do. You need to do this. He's like, you have to do this. I need you to do this. Yes.

Terry Gross (48:45)

It was basically doing nothing. You were refusing to do his assignment, and you found out a great, like, cover story for that, a great disguise for that, thinks that you should be doing more theater as a result.

Cristela Alonso (48:57)

And we're still friends.

Terry Gross (48:58)

Wow.

Cristela Alonso (48:59)

He actually. He went to the taping of my first special.

Terry Gross (49:02)

You are lucky.

Cristela Alonso (49:04)

Yeah. I am very grateful. The teachers, my drama teachers, I am very grateful for. I am. I still. I'm still friends with them. I've always said it's like, without Mr. Honnell, I don't know what I would have done.

Terry Gross (49:17)

So did you want to be in music theater?

Cristela Alonso (49:20)

Yes. Oh, my God, yes. I wanted it so much. Couldn't afford dance classes, couldn't afford singing lessons. So I took it upon myself to just record movies that I could get off the TV on my vcr. I'd learn their dances. Then when I got to high school and started, you know, auditioning for college, they were like, oh, you can sing. And I was like, I can. I had no idea. And, yes, I wanted to be on Broadway.

Terry Gross (49:50)

So eventually, you started doing comedy shows. You. Yes. Did college tours, doing comedy at colleges around the country, and you eventually had enough money that you could buy things.

Cristela Alonso (50:06)

Yes.

Terry Gross (50:07)

You were amazed you were able to see, like, doctors.

Cristela Alonso (50:11)

I had no idea how doctors worked. I really didn't. I had no idea.

Terry Gross (50:14)

This is a great story that you go to a gynecologist and you have no idea what part of your body she's about to examine.

Cristela Alonso (50:20)

I had no idea.

Terry Gross (50:21)

Embarrassed.

Cristela Alonso (50:22)

And let me tell you, I grew up in the kind of family where it's not the kind of conversation you have with. I had with my sister. My sister and I wouldn't talk about that. We were raised so conservative that we never talked about, like, OBGYNs. She had three children. It's like, I almost didn't know how she had them like, you know what I mean? It was like, like, it's like that thing where we just didn't talk about it. Medical attention is such a luxury to so many people. I had to learn how to work with it, how to deal with it. I say it in the, in the last special, like, I didn't know what a checkup was. Like, why would you go to a doctor when you're not sick? Like, people just go. It was such a foreign concept. But, yeah, you know, I started having money where I could put my bills on autopay. I could go to the doctor. I could buy a car. I bought a new car like 10 years ago. How, how was I able to do all of this stuff? I was always so grateful for the most basic things that I couldn't afford when I was a kid. I still go through that.

Terry Gross (51:23)

Yeah. Well, Kristella, it's really been a pleasure talking with you. Thank you so much.

Cristela Alonso (51:29)

Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed it.

Terry Gross (51:32)

Christela Alonso's new Netflix comedy special is called Upper Classy. It's a follow up to her first two Netflix specials, Lower Classy and Middle Classy. Fresh Air Weekend is produced by Teresa Madden. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our managing producer is Sam Brigger. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Roberta Shorrock, Anne Marie Boldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Yakundi, Anna Bauman and John Sheehan. Our digital media producer is Molly CV Nesper. Our consulting visual producer is Hope Wilson. Our co host is Tanya Moseley. I'm Terry Gross. This message comes from the Council for Interior Design Qualification. Interior designer and CIDQ president Siyavash Madani.

Cristela Alonso (52:34)

Discusses why certified professionals know that good design is more than just how something looks.

Announcer (52:39)

Being NCIDQ certified means you've qualified to protect the health, safety and welfare of the public in the spaces that you design. Good design is never just about aesthetics. It's about intention, safety and impact. So an NCIDQ certified interior designer must complete a minimum of six years of specialized education and work experience and pass the three part NCIDQ exam.

Dwayne Johnson (53:04)

All three exams emphasize and focus on.

Announcer (53:08)

Health, safety and welfare of the occupants.

Dwayne Johnson (53:11)

Being NCIDQ certified means that you've proven.

Announcer (53:14)

Your knowledge and skills through rigorous exams.

Dwayne Johnson (53:17)

And are recognized as a qualified interior design professional.

Cristela Alonso (53:21)

Learn more@cidq.org NPR this message comes from.

Announcer (53:27)

Ritual what makes ritual vitamins different? Ritual vitamins are made with bioavailable, clinically studied key ingredients as well as the essence of Mint. Get 25% off your first purchase when you visit ritual.com NPR.