Best Of: George Clooney / Costume Designer Paul Tazewell

Summary

Fresh Air Weekend: Best Of — George Clooney / Costume Designer Paul Tazewell

Podcast: Fresh Air
Host: Tonya Mosley
Date: December 6, 2025
Guests: George Clooney, Paul Tazewell

Episode Overview

This “Best Of” episode spotlights in-depth interviews with two luminaries: actor/director George Clooney and Oscar/Tony/Emmy-winning costume designer Paul Tazewell. Clooney discusses the emotional themes in his new film J. Kelly, reflections on fame, friendship, and family, as well as his recent stage work and political activism. Tazewell delves into his landmark work for Wicked for Good, his personal journey into costume design, and the creative choices shaping contemporary theater and film. The episode also features rock critic Ken Tucker’s annual roundup of new Christmas songs.

---

George Clooney: Balancing Stardom, Family, and Speaking Out

(Interview begins at 02:57)

1. J. Kelly and the Struggles of Parenting/Regret

• Clooney stars in Noah Baumbach’s new film J. Kelly as a world-famous actor facing the consequences of prioritizing stardom over personal relationships.
• The film explores a universal struggle: balancing career with meaningful family connections, especially as children grow up and parents face missed moments.
  • Memorable Quote:

    “Most people deal with [this] in life, certainly if you have kids...there’s always this balance that we’re always trying to get right, you know...we’re never getting it perfect.” (George Clooney, 06:54)

• Clooney reflects on his own upbringing and career choices, drawing parallels to the film’s themes.

2. Views on Fame and Constructing an Honest Support System

• Clooney explains his stripped-down team and the importance of having people who can challenge or confront him.
  • He avoids being surrounded by yes-men, valuing honesty among friends over the trappings of celebrity.
  • Notable Anecdote:
    Clooney shares how close friends once called him out on drinking and driving, emphasizing the importance of accountability.

    “It was very helpful to have people that...instead of laughing...they were like, ‘Dude, that’s not cool, and you shouldn’t do that again.’” (George Clooney, 12:00)

• Attributes his stable friendships and collaborative partnerships (notably with Grant Heslov) to a deliberate, if organic, effort to keep his social circle grounded.

3. Legendary Generosity: The “Million Dollar Friends” Story

• Clooney confirms the widely reported story of gifting $1 million to each of his 12 closest friends, a gesture made before his marriage to Amal Clooney.
  • He describes the event as a heartfelt, performative thank you, mapping out their collective history and impact on his life.
  • Memorable Moment:

    “How do you thank the people that gave you a career and allowed you to have a career...and have stood by you for so long? ...Open the bags.” (George Clooney, 15:35)

4. Stage Work & Revisiting Good Night, and Good Luck

• Clooney discusses reprising Edward R. Murrow on Broadway, reflecting on the media’s power and the moral legacy of his family.
  • The stage experience felt urgent and resonant, provoking strong audience reactions every night.
  • Notable Quote:

    “We proclaim ourselves as indeed we are the defenders of freedom...But we cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home. I think that’s an important phrase.” (George Clooney reciting Murrow, 21:15)

5. Political Engagement — Why Speak Out?

• Clooney elaborates on when and why he uses his platform for activism, referencing his 2024 New York Times op-ed urging President Biden to step aside.
  • He asserts the right of public figures to express opinions, pointing to a history of activism even before fame.
  • Quote:

    “I don’t give up my freedom of speech because I have a Screen Actors Guild card...You get to say what you believe, you get to stand by what you believe, and everything people do with you is voluntary...” (George Clooney, 25:23)

— Interview with George Clooney concludes at 26:49 —

---

Ken Tucker’s Christmas Music Roundup

(Begins at 26:57)

• Brad Paisley — Snow Globe Town: Heartfelt country ballads and novelty tunes; standout song “Falling Just Like the Snow.”
• Mickey Guyton — Feels Like Christmas: Cheerful Motown-inspired tracks, notably “Sugar Cookie.”
• Leon Bridges — “A Merry Black Christmas”: Intimate, soulful variation on holiday themes, reflecting personal and communal experiences.
• Old Crow Medicine Show — “December 26th”: Joyful post-holiday reflection.

Quote:

“Whether you’re anxiously awaiting Christmas or already wishing the holidays would be over, here’s a lot of music that lets you know you’re not alone.” (Ken Tucker, 33:01)

---

Paul Tazewell: Shaping the Visual Story of ‘Wicked’ and Broadway

(Interview begins at 34:47)

1. Breaking Barriers & Winning the Oscar for Wicked

• Tazewell recounts the emotional out-of-body experience of becoming the first Black man to win the Oscar for costume design (for Wicked for Good).
  • Memorable Moment:

    “I’m the first black man to receive the costume design award for my work on Wicked...Thank you...Thank you for trusting me with bringing your characters to life. This is everything.” (Paul Tazewell’s Oscar speech, 35:34)

2. Storytelling Through Clothing: Designing for Wicked

• Explains his philosophy: costumes tell a silent story, defining character arcs alongside the script.

• Insight into the decision-making behind Elphaba’s and Glinda’s new looks in the film’s sequel—textures, silhouettes, and colors tie to their journeys.

  • Elphaba’s weathered cape and adoption of trousers denote empowerment and transformation.

    • Quote:

      “I wanted to relay that with her silhouette, but also to show the weathering of her garment...she has become a huge force, kind of a superhero.” (Paul Tazewell, 40:16)

  • The choice to dress Elphaba in black holds narrative weight, signaling mourning and otherness—a mirror to nuanced racial dynamics.

    • Insight:

      “It was the first time that a Black woman had ever been cast in that role...the whole point of the story is that she is being ostracized...there are so many similarities in the emotions story for a person of color and how that relates to Elphaba.” (Paul Tazewell, 44:25)

3. Early Inspirations: From the Wizard of Oz to The Wiz

• Tazewell’s childhood: watching the 1939 Wizard of Oz annually at Easter—enchanted by the visual magic of its transformation from sepia to Technicolor.
• Seismic impact of seeing The Wiz (1978); representation of Black culture and style in a major fantasy film was “life changing.”
  • Quote:

    “To see it told in my cultural language was life changing. It was like, oh, yeah, well, of course, you know, this all works beautifully.” (Paul Tazewell, 49:25)

4. From Performing Student to Costume Design Trailblazer

• Learned to sew from his mother at age nine, inspired by her crafts and puppet shows.

• In high school, designed and sewed costumes—including a signature white sharkskin suit for himself as the Wiz—often with family collaboration.

  • Quote:

    “I loved creating these fantasy characters through my lens...much of that time I was creating them on my own.” (Paul Tazewell, 51:29)

• Embraced costume design as a continuation of problem-solving and world-building, always bringing his unique perspective to his work.

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• George Clooney, on family and regret:

  “If you’re successful, you do make yourself irrelevant. And that’s probably the way it’s supposed to be...every kid at some point has to divorce themselves from that protective sheath of their parents.” (08:04)

• Paul Tazewell, on seeing ‘The Wiz’:

  “It was everything to see that kind of disco iconography...to see it told in my cultural language was life changing.” (49:25 – 49:54)

• Clooney, on speaking out:

  “I don’t give up my freedom of speech because I have a Screen Actors Guild card.” (25:27)

• Tazewell, on the Oscar win:

  “I’m the first black man to receive the costume design award for my work on Wicked...” (35:34)

---

Timestamps of Key Segments

• George Clooney interview: 02:57–26:49
• Ken Tucker’s Christmas music roundup: 26:57–33:11
• Paul Tazewell interview: 34:47–52:18

---

For listeners and readers alike, this “Best Of” episode offers heartfelt reflection, behind-the-scenes artistry, and provocative conversation about family, art, and the storytelling power of both words and costume.

Transcript

[Tonya Mosley]

This message comes from Mattress Firm. Losing sleep when your partner tosses and turns Mattress Firm sleep experts can match you with a Tempur Pedic mattress designed to absorb motion for deeper rest. For the great sleep you deserve, visit Mattress Firm. They make sleep easy. From WHYY in Philadelphia, this is FRESH AIR weekend. I'm Tonya Moseley. Today, George Clooney on his new film J. Kelly, where he stars as a famous actor at a crossroads. Also, Oscar winning costume designer Paul Tazewell. He spent more than three decades shaping looks for the stage and screen, from the gritty revolutionaries of Hamilton to the vibrant world of west side Story. His journey to Wicked started from the moment he saw the wizard of Oz and later the Wiz, which he says rocked his world.

[Paul Tazewell]

It was everything to see that kind of disco iconography because I knew the wizard of Oz then. To see it told in my cultural language was life changing.

[Tonya Mosley]

And rock critic Ken Tucker has a roundup of some of this year's new Christmas songs.

[Paul Tazewell]

I'm thinking I'm thinking about a Merry Black Christmas.

[Tonya Mosley]

That's coming up on FRESH AIR weekend.

This message comes from BetterHelp. The holidays are a time of traditions like making your grandmother's pudding recipe or watching that movie you've seen a thousand times. Incorporating therapy into your life can help you take time for yourself during what can be a joyful but sometimes tough time of year. And by caring for yourself, you can show up more for the important moments this December. Start a new tradition by taking care of you. Visit betterhelp.com NPR for 10% off this message comes from Charles Schwab. When it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices like full service, wealth management and advice when you need it. You can also invest on your own and trade on think or swim. Visit schwab.com to learn more support for NPR and the following message come from GoodRx. The holidays are here, but so is cold and flu season. Find relief for less With Goodrx, you could save an average of $53 on flu treatments, plus save on cold medications, decongestants and more easily compare prescription prices and find discounts up to 80%. GoodRx is not insurance, but works with or without it and could beat your copay price. Save on cold and flu [e-mail] Fresh.

[Paul Tazewell]

This message comes from NPR sponsor Veeam. AI promised intelligence, but it also exposed everything people couldn't. VEEAM and Security AI bring protection, governance and AI trust together to accelerate safe AI at scale learn [e-mail] this is FRESH AIR WEEKEND.

[Tonya Mosley]

I'm Tanya Moseley. My first guest is George Clooney, Academy Award winner, director and producer and one of Hollywood's most recognizable leading men. His latest film, J. Kelly, directed by Noah Baumbach, follows a world famous actor who who discovers that being a movie star is a lot easier than being an actual human being. The character Jay Kelly has the fame part down, but the father, partner, friend part, not so much. Jay's perfectly curated image unravels after his mentor dies and he decides to follow his daughter across Europe, a trip that forces him to face his regrets and some of his blind spots, including the frosty relationship he has with his children. Clooney stars alongside Adam Sandler, who plays his manager Lord Dern as his publicist and Billy Crudup as his old friend who never made it as an actor. George Clooney's own body of work spans decades. From his breakout role as Dr. Doug Ross on the NBC medical drama ER, he's earned two Academy Awards in 2005 for Best Supporting actor in Syriana and for best picture in 2012 as a co producer for Argo. And earlier this year, Clooney made his Broadway debut when he reprised the story of good night and good luck on stage. George Clooney, welcome back to the show.

[George Clooney]

Thank you, Tonya. It's been a while. I'm glad to be back.

[Tonya Mosley]

I know. And it's our first time talking. You know, this, this new film where you play this world famous actor who is coming to grips with the fact that he has missed out on the things that actually matter. There is this pivotal scene that really plants that seed early in the film that I want to play. It's your character Jay in his palatial home by the pool with his 18 year old daughter Daisy, who was played by Grace Edwards, shortly before she goes on a trip to Europe with her friends. And Daisy speaks first. Let's listen.

[George Clooney]

I am going to go meet Moses in Rio. I love you. Wait, aren't we having dinner tonight? Mario's doing the tamales. Did we say that?

All right, go on, be with your friends. There'll be other dinners. I wrapped this last one. I start the Lewis brothers movie right here on the lots. I'll be around for the summer. I'm going to Europe with Rio and Moses and some friends. I told you that. I thought that was in July. No, it was always June. I'm leaving on Saturday for Paris and we're making our way over to Tuscany Saturday. I mean, that's Saturday. That's. It's too soon. I got two weeks off. We won't have had time to hang out. This is your last summer. That's why I want to see my friends. It'll be so lonely here without you. No, it won't.

[Tonya Mosley]

You're never alone.

[Paul Tazewell]

Really?

[George Clooney]

I think I'm always alone. Thanks. I'm on.

[Paul Tazewell]

You are.

[Tonya Mosley]

That was my guest, George Clooney in the new movie J. Kelly with actor Grace Edwards. You know, this particular part of the film to a certain extent, I mean, almost every parent understands this moment. Your children are going off to live their own lives. They don't really want to hang out with you anymore. It's really bittersweet. But there's more to this dynamic because Jay has missed out on building that bond with his daughter and it's because of his career. And this movie is really asking us, when do you realize you've made the wrong trade offs? And I'm really curious about what piqued your interest in exploring that question.

[George Clooney]

You know, it's a funny thing. Cause I never really think, I never thought of it when I read the script as a story about an actor or a movie star even. It always read to me as something that sort of. Most people deal with in life, certainly if you have kids, which is that balance between, between work and.

Your family. And you know, I look back at things when I was growing up and there was always my father missed some ball games that I did and some big events in high school in my life. My parents both did. And you know, you could be bitter about it or you could, as you get older, look back and realize, well, he was working, he was putting food on the table. And so there's always this balance that we're always trying to get right, you know, and the balance is an interesting thing because clearly you actually have to work and clearly you need to make a living and there are opportunities that you have to follow. And always you look back and think, well, I think I maybe missed something there. So we're all doing it, we're all balancing it. We're never getting it perfect.

[Tonya Mosley]

Yeah. There is this line that is kind of heartbreaking, at least for me as a working mom. It's where Billy Crudup's character says to you, we are only good parents when we make ourselves a right. And there are so many lines like that. But how do you think about that as. As a, as a parent, as someone who's had such a successful career, you.

[George Clooney]

Know.

Well, you Know, it's a funny thing.

[Paul Tazewell]

They.

[George Clooney]

The last thing they're aware of is my success, you know, at all. I even. My son went to Halloween this year dressed as Batman, which is a character I played famously, the worst Batman in the history of the franchise. And I literally said to him, you know, I was Batman. And he was like, yeah, not really. And he had no idea how right he really was. You know, I think that you. If you're successful, you do make yourself irrelevant. And that's probably the way it's supposed to be, right? I was desperate, desperate when I was a young, young man to be my own name and my own, make my own mark. My father, who was, you know, successful in Cincinnati, Ohio, in sort of a very small market, in that tiny market, was well known. And I didn't want to be Nick Clooney's son, you know, I wanted to be my own guy. And everybody. I think every kid at some point has to divorce themselves from that protective sheath of their parents, you know.

[Tonya Mosley]

Yeah. One of the other things that was really fascinating to me about this movie in particular and touching on fame and really giving us a lens, is that the people, like every. Every celebrity, every star, kind of has people. And sometimes the people there are a lot of people that are behind them. Sometimes they just have an entourage. That's kind of a small one. But something that your character, J. Kelly, has done in his life is kind of design a world where everyone around says yes to just about everything. And you have said that you have designed your life to be the opposite.

[George Clooney]

The reality is, I have an assistant and I have a publicist, and I have an agent. I don't have a manager. I don't have a business manager. I don't. You know. But what I would say is, in fairness, some of those trappings, they're products of getting famous young. Because when you're young, everybody says, well, you have to have a lawyer that takes 5%. Then you have to have a manager that takes 15 or 20%. And then you have to have an agent that takes 10%. And you have to have a publicist. And they go through all these lists of things that you need to do, and you do it. I go, oh, okay, of course. That's what I gotta do. If you're 33 and you're famous, the arguments are, well, now I need a publicist because I have something to publicize. So, okay, I don't need a manager because I have an agent. I don't need a business manager because I'm pretty Good at understanding my own business. So you're in a different position when you're older and so you don't have to surround yourself with this coterie of people that hold everything up for you. And I actually pride myself on being able to be scrappy and fix things along the way and take care of most things on my own.

[Tonya Mosley]

The people around you, though, I say that.

[George Clooney]

I say that as my assistant just brought me a cup of coffee while we were talking. Just so you know.

[Tonya Mosley]

Right. Like a scene right out of J. Kelly. Yeah, absolutely. But I wonder, you know, you've been so intentional about having people around you that can also tell you the truth. Have there been moments in your life where someone close to you has had to point out something about yourself that you couldn't see?

[George Clooney]

Oh, sure. Tons of times. I remember I was working on a movie, and the movie wrapped early, and I stayed around with the crew and, you know, drank. And I came home. I was drunk driving home, you know, which is never a good thing to do. I wasn't drunk drunk, but I'd had too much to drink. And my buddy came over. Two of my friends came over and sat down and said, that can't ever happen again, dude. You can't ever get in a car when you've had too much to drink. And, you know, and of course, they were right. And. But it was very helpful to have people that. Instead of laughing about the fact that I'd had four beers instead of two and came home and got home without getting. Without getting in trouble for it, instead of thinking that was funny, they were like, dude, that's not cool, and you shouldn't do that again. And I appreciated that, and I took that to heart. But I have friends that. My friends are always been very straightforward with me. I'll do a project that, you know, that I'll think works, and they'll say, yeah, I don't know about that one. So I don't mind that. It's important to have that in your life.

[Tonya Mosley]

Yeah. How did you come to understand that that was what you needed, that that was actually important for you? And I guess it also says a lot about the company that you keep.

[George Clooney]

Well, I will say this. I didn't do it because there was some great plan. I did it because, you know, I had no interest in being married and having kids. I had an interest in working. I was very excited with having a career. I couldn't believe I was having one.

And I had all of these friends who had been my friends when, you know, when You're a young actor and probably young anything. That's when you tend to make all your friends, either out of college or just after, and you make a lot of good friends. And then as time goes on and you get a job and you get married, you tend to lose a lot of them because life gets in the way. Well, I didn't lose them. I worked very hard at making sure we had them because probably selfishly, since I wasn't getting married and wasn't having kids, I was wanting to have this family, this sort of created family. And I worked very hard at making sure that we all, you know, had dinners together and spent time together and checked in with one another. And there wasn't any great master plan, really. It was just luck. I got lucky that I met really wonderful people. Who? Grant Heslov, my partner at work. We've been partners for 40 years. He loaned me 98 bucks to get headshots in 1982, and we both stood on the stage together and won the Oscar together as producers of Argo. So we've been through it.

[Tonya Mosley]

There's this story that came out a few years ago that you gave your friends, people in your inner circle, money, like a million dollars, and you made kind of a performance out of it. Did that really happen?

[George Clooney]

It's funny. It was a few months before I went out on a date with Amal, and I didn't, you know, like I said, I didn't have kids. I wasn't married. I had really no prospects of that idea. I wasn't really thinking about it. And I'd met with my accountant to say to do my will, you know. And while I was doing my will, I said, so what happens when I, you know, get hit by a bus? And he's like, well, you, you know, you have to list who you're going to leave it to. And I have these. It's 12 guys, 12 friends who've been my friends since 19, all but two of them since 1982 and two of them since, like, 1989. And we've all been very close, and I was just going to leave the money to them. And then I was sitting there with him and, you know, again, I don't have any money to leave to anyone else. And I said, well, why are we waiting until I'm like, you know, old or they're old, and why don't we just get on with it now? And So I got $12 million in cash, which was, you know, a big chunk of the money I had. I had it in cash. I paid all the taxes on it, so nobody had to pay any taxes. And I put them in these Toomey suitcases and I told everybody that they had to come over to dinner. It was a very special night. And then I had a big map that I put up and those Toomey bags were sitting in front of him at this dinner table. And I just said, so I don't get a job if I don't get to sleep on Tom's couch. And Hollywood and, and I don't get this unless I was in Westwood. And I, and you know, Giovanni, we met in, in Venice. And I put pens in all these maps, you know, all these spots in the maps of where we were and what we did. And I said, and how do you thank the people that gave you a career and allowed you to have a career and have stood by you for so long? And I said, you know, so, and then I said, open the bags. And I said, and I, I said, screw it. I said, just give him a million bucks. So it was a fun thing to do and I was very happy to do it. And then of course I met Amal. We got married. And you're thinking, wow, I just gave.

[Paul Tazewell]

Away a big chunk of money.

[Tonya Mosley]

If you're just joining us, we're talking to George Clooney about his new film J. Kelly, where he plays a world famous actor taking stock of his life and the people he's pushed away. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. I'm Tonya Mosley and this is FRESH AIR Weekend.

[Paul Tazewell]

This message comes from Capital One. Capital One offers checking accounts with no fees or minimums. What's in your wallet terms apply. See capitalone.combank for details. Capital One NA member FDIC this message.

[Tonya Mosley]

Comes from Superhuman, the AI productivity suite that gives you superpowers everywhere. You work with Grammarly mail and coda coming together. You get proactive help across your workflow so you can outsmart the chaos experience AI that proactively helps you go from to do to done faster. Unleash your superhuman potential today. Learn [e-mail] podcast that's superhuman.com podcast.

This message comes from Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save Hundreds of Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.

J. Kelly comes on the heels of your record breaking Broadway run just this past spring and good Night and Good Luck. It's a production about Edward R. Murrow's Showdown with Senator McCarthy that was eventually broadcast live on CNN. You made this film in 2005. It was a cautionary tale about McCarthyism and attacks on the press. In the film version, you played Fred Friendly so that he was Murrow's producer. And on Broadway, you actually got to play Murrow himself. Did you come to understand anything new or more about Murrow being in the role and playing him night after night?

[George Clooney]

Not always. You know, I wrote it so I had to understand as much as I could about those same spheres of influence that we're talking about. You know, there are very few times that someone had the power to actually affect policy. Someone in news, for instance, when Walter Cronkite stepped out from behind the desk and said, this war in Vietnam is unwinnable, it's a tie at best. That's when President Johnson said, if I've lost Cronkite, I've lost the country and decided not to run for re election. When Murrow took on McCarthy, that was a moment when he was the most trusted man in America. And he said, the emperor has no clothes. That actually changed public opinion. And, you know, playing Murrow, the thing that was exciting to me was in the play, which was very different, the play, it was much more urgent and much more about what we're dealing with today. And at the very end of the play, as Murrow, I got to stand in front of an audience of 1600 people every night and look them all, each one in the eye at the end and say, what are you prepared to do? And we would have violent reactions from the audience. People would be crying and people would be yelling, resist. And people would be standing up and cheering and screaming. And it really felt like everybody in that room needed a place to wash their hands and face and remind themselves, not by my words but by Murrow's words, of who we are at our best, who we aspire to be, who we often fall short of, but who we also have accomplished. We have been the people that defeated fascism and Nazism. You know, we did do that, and it wouldn't have happened without us. At the exact same time, we were putting Asian Americans, Japanese Americans into camps. We're a very complicated country which has huge goals and aspires to many of them and falls way short of many of them along the way.

[Tonya Mosley]

Those pronouncements that Murrow would make, I mean, they're very poetic, prophetic. For instance, there's the one I simply cannot Accept that there are on every story two equal and logical sides to an argument. That's one that I often think about. Are there lines that you can recite from memory that are meaningful to you, that you often think about?

[George Clooney]

We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. We will not walk in fear one of another. We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason. If we dig deep in our history and our doctrine and remember that we are not descended from fearful men, not from men who fear to write, to speak, to associate, or to defend the causes that are, for the moment, unpopular. We proclaim ourselves as indeed we are the defenders of freedom wherever it continues to exist in the world. But we cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home. I think that's an important phrase.

[Tonya Mosley]

When did you first learn that? Was it for the writing of this, or had that been something that you had known for a while?

[George Clooney]

My father used to stand on a chair when he was, I don't know how old. When I was 7, he would stand on a chair and he would recite that speech from Murrow. My dad was a big fan of Murrow's and he would. He would do that and he would do Shakespeare when he'd stand on a chair for us when we were little kids to entertain us.

[Tonya Mosley]

That had to be then. I mean, such a full circle moment. What has your father said about your adaptations?

[George Clooney]

Well, it was funny. He wasn't well enough to come to the play, which was heartbreaking, quite honestly, because really it was written for him. You know, it was written for his standard and what he taught me and what he asked of me as a child and as an adult. But we did it live so he could see it. And it was an interesting thing because he was there with a bunch of family members and watching it live. And at the end, he stood up and he saluted the television.

Which was a pretty beautiful thing for me.

And for us and for our relationship. He set the standard pretty high for me.

[Tonya Mosley]

You know, you really laid out for us some of the moral, like, complexities of life that your dad taught you and kind of to be sort of this standup man who stands for something. And I was just curious, when do you make the choice to speak out about the social and political causes that you support in general?

[George Clooney]

When I've been able to be personally involved. When I've been able to know or have some personal insight. But in General. It's when I feel like no one else is going to do it. That's kind of the thing. If someone else has got a certain subject covered, then I don't really need to do it. I don't need to be involved in everything. You can't pick up every fight. You lose all of the. You lose all of your clout. If you, if you fight every fight, you have to pick the ones that you know well, that you're well informed on and that you have. You know that you have some say and you hope that that has at least some effect. If it doesn't, at least you've.

[Tonya Mosley]

You've participated, you know, knowing that you. You knew something that you could share with the world. Is that what made you decide to write that? The op ed for the New York Times calling on President Biden to step aside in the presidential race back in 2024 because you wrote, joe Biden is a hero. He saved democracy in 2020. We need him to do it again in 2024. And it was an extraordinary public statement asking someone who you actually called a friend to withdraw. And reflecting on your decision to write that op ed and to speak so publicly about it at such an inflection point for our country.

Do you stand behind your decision to write it? Because, you know, there's also just the narrative where a lot of people feel like, well, celebrities, what right do they have to speak about such things to step into this arena? And in this particular case, there were a lot of celebrities that stepped in to speak out about the presidential election. Like, what are your thoughts on that?

[George Clooney]

Well, that's never not been the case. Right. I don't give up my. My freedom of speech because I have a Screen Actors Guild card. I spoke up when no one was listening, when it was just somebody at the end of a bar, and I spoke up. I was out protesting against apartheid in 1982, and no one gave a damn who I was. I grew up in 1960s, man. Suddenly, you know, you get well known, and it's like, okay, now don't speak. I love watching some knucklehead, usually famous person saying, you know, shut up and drivel, or, you know, any of those things, and you go. You realize that what you're saying is a political statement, right? And by the way, here's the point. You get to say what you believe, you get to stand by what you believe, and everything people do with you is voluntary, right? Meaning there are going to be people now that won't go see this movie.

[Paul Tazewell]

Okay?

[George Clooney]

Fair enough. That's the trade off I make and I can handle that. I believe in standing up for what you believe in and saying, telling the truth. The minute that I'm asked to just straight up lie, then.

I've lost.

[Tonya Mosley]

George Clooney. This has been such a pleasure. Thank you so much for your time.

[George Clooney]

Well, thank you so much and good luck. I think your show is just amazing. I'm so glad it's still running. I cannot appreciate what you do more, so thank you.

[Tonya Mosley]

George Clooney's new film is J. Kelly.

It's that time of year when pop stars release holiday music and rock critic Ken Tucker has been listening to a lot of new releases. He's got a roundup that includes Christmas songs from Brad Paisley, Mickey Guyton, Leon Bridges, and Old Crow Medicine Show. Let's start with country singer guitarist Brad Paisley.

[George Clooney]

Walking down the street looking at the faces seeing just a few more smiles Storefront windows getting decorated no it won't be long now all the cafes making peppermint lattes, you can make mine a double cause it's been a grind But I see Christmas lights at the end of the tunnel and we're counting down the days.

To work.

[Tonya Mosley]

Brad Paisley is counting down the days until Christmas.

[George Clooney]

Are you Paisley, a superb country guitarist with a puckish sense of humor, has.

[Paul Tazewell]

Made what is easily the best new collection of Christmas music.

[George Clooney]

It's called Snow Globe Town.

[Paul Tazewell]

Paisley knows how to layer a proper Christmas album.

[Tonya Mosley]

It's got some lovely ballads infused with snow and sentiment. It's got a couple of novelty tunes such as one about a naughty elf on a shelf.

[George Clooney]

He covers traditional songs such as Santa Claus is Coming to Town and Christmas.

[Paul Tazewell]

Carols like oh Holy Night.

[George Clooney]

My favorite new song on this album is this warm, pretty composition called Falling. Just like the Snow, I am melting just like the ice on our boots by the door and just like the fire I feel warm Cause when I look at you with your eyes all aglow Girl, I'm falling just like the snow.

Another country vocalist, Mickey Guyton, has an album called Feels Like Christmas. It's a cheerful bunch of songs.

[Paul Tazewell]

You can hear Guyton smile as she sings them.

[Tonya Mosley]

One standout is the song Sugar Cookie, which is arranged to sound like a.

[Paul Tazewell]

Sweet bit of Motown pop from decades past.

[Tonya Mosley]

Sugar Cookie is a new song that.

[Paul Tazewell]

Arrives with built in nostalgia.

[George Clooney]

I gotta say I've been having this craving every day I've been wishing and praying for the taste I can't wait.

[Paul Tazewell]

It's been keeping me up all night. Oh, you're the one I want the most.

[Tonya Mosley]

You're always melting my heart turn me to marshmallow when all the snow I've.

[George Clooney]

Been dying for the silver to drop. Baby, you're the accent on top. You're my sugar sugar cookie sugar that goody goody sweetness fresh out the oven. Your gift I'll take a D. You keep me warm when it's cold outside.

[Paul Tazewell]

You make it feel like Christmas time.

[George Clooney]

The R and B singer Leon Bridges.

[Tonya Mosley]

Has released an enigmatic holiday track, a tune called A Merry Black Christmas.

[George Clooney]

It's a rueful variation on the Irving.

[Paul Tazewell]

Berlin classic White Christmas.

[Tonya Mosley]

Remember the line about a white Christmas just like the ones I used to know?

[George Clooney]

Here it becomes a black Christmas just like the one I've never had before.

[Tonya Mosley]

His gravelly croon lends a certain melancholy to the beauty that Leon Bridges summons up here.

[Paul Tazewell]

I'm thinking, I'm thinking about a merry.

[George Clooney]

Black Christmas.

Just like the one I never had before.

Like you down here street with no.

[Paul Tazewell]

Shoes on your feet.

[George Clooney]

The happy, what a happy KC.

I'm thinking.

Wow. I'm thinking, I'm thinking.

Thinking about a merry black Christmas.

[Tonya Mosley]

We began with Brad Paisley counting the.

[George Clooney]

Days until Christmas arrives. We will end with Old Crow Medicine Show. Thinking about the day after Christmas.

[Tonya Mosley]

This jaunty Nashville based string band has a clever original song called December 26th.

[George Clooney]

Well another year has come again.

[Paul Tazewell]

We sang the songs and drunk the nog. The twinkle lights are staying on all day FA la la.

[George Clooney]

The fridge is full of Christmas goose and needles dropping off the spruce. The ornaments are getting loose and falling FA la la. It's time to throw away the tree Clear out the opening debris. It's far too soon, don't you agree? Hang on FA la la. The relatives pack up the car and.

[Paul Tazewell]

Follow back the evening star with heavy bags and heavy hearts.

[George Clooney]

Because it's the day after Christmas and we gotta wait a whole dang year.

[Paul Tazewell]

For the holly and garland and elzon.

[George Clooney]

Shells the sleigh and the bells and the pine trees.

[Paul Tazewell]

We'll go all on the sun to.

[George Clooney]

The fading sounds of reindeer. Cause it's the day after Christmas and we ain't out of cheer.

Whether you're anxiously awaiting Christmas or or already wishing the holidays would be over, here's a lot of music that lets you know you're not alone.

[Tonya Mosley]

Rock critic Ken Tucker reviewed Christmas music from Brad Paisley, Mickey Guyton, Leon Bridges and the Old Crow Medicine Show. Coming up, we hear from Oscar and Tony winning costume designer Paul Tazewell. His latest project is Wicked for Good. I'm Tonya Moseley. And this is FRESH AIR weekend.

[Paul Tazewell]

This message comes from Babbel. Babbel's conversation based language technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world with lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55% off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com NPR spelled B-A-B-B-E-L.com NPR rules and restrictions may apply.

[Tonya Mosley]

This message comes from Progressive Insurance. Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. This message comes from Mint mobile. Starting at $15 a month. Make the [e-mail] Switch $45 upfront pay three months five gigabyte plan equivalent to $15 a month taxes and fees extra first three months only. See terms. This is Fresh Air Weekend. I'm Tanya Mosley.

In Wicked for Good, when Glinda descends from her bubble an iridescent blue and lavender, or when Elphaba sweeps through the sky for the first, first time in a weathered trench coat and trousers, their looks aren't just dazzling us, they're an integral part of the story, telling us who these women have become and the choices they've made. My guest today, costume designer Paul Tazewell, is one of the visual architects of that world. For more than 30 years, his designs across Broadway, television and film have shaped how we see stories, from the worn, revolutionary textures of Hamilton to the saturated palette of west side Story. Tazewell won the Academy Award last year for his work on Wicked, and during his acceptance speech, he paused to acknowledge the significance of that moment.

[Paul Tazewell]

I'm the first black man.

[George Clooney]

To receive.

[Paul Tazewell]

The costume design award for my work on Wicked.

I'm so proud of this. Thank you mom and Emma so much. Thank you everyone in the UK for all of your beautiful work. I could not have done this without you. My Ozzie and muses, Cynthia and Ariana. I love you so much. All the other cast, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for trusting me with bringing your characters to life. This is everything.

[Tonya Mosley]

Tazwell's work now continues in the next chapter of the Wicked universe with Wicked for Good, which picks up where the first film left off. Elphaba, played by Cynthia Erivo, is now on the run, branded as the Wicked Witch, while Glinda, played by Ariana Grande rises as the face of a new Oz. Paul Tazewell grew up in Ohio, a kid who loved to perform and gradually found his way into costume design. Since then, he's won two Tony Awards for Hamilton and Death Becomes Her. And in addition to his Oscar win for Wicket, he's also earned an Emmy in 2016 for the Wiz Live. And Paul Tazewell, welcome to Fresh air.

[Paul Tazewell]

Thank you. It's so good to be here, Tanya.

[Tonya Mosley]

We're gonna get into Wicked for good, but I could hear you sort of chuckling when you were listening to your acceptance speech. It's still, like a surprise for you when you listen to it.

[Paul Tazewell]

Oh, my God, completely. It's just so out of body, and that whole experience was so out of body. I mean, although I, you know, I trained to be a performer, that's not what I do, so it's not what I, you know, kind of carry forward, you know. So it's always a surprise when I have to get up in front of millions of people and say something that's coherent. And because I was so moved, I mean, that's one of the things that I was chuckling about, was like, oh, I forgot to say. I forgot to say thank you to all the other cast. I mean, it wasn't that I forgot. I just, you know, just like, listing all of them off. And, you know, it minimizes the impact that it's had on me creatively. To say that it was, you know, just to say that it was life changing. I think that it really.

Has affected my life in great ways.

[Tonya Mosley]

Well, one of the ways that it's affected your life is that you're now a name. It's very few times, I mean, where we've been able to name people who set the worlds behind the movies. We're often talking to the performers or we're talking to the directors or the producers. But as a.

Especially for Wicket, I mean, it's such an integral part of the storyline. And right from the start of this second film, we're watching your work. We're watching these two women step into their new Personas. Glinda as the good witch, Elphaba as the wicked witch. And the costumes are really working to tell that story. Elphaba's elaborate dress from the first film at the end, it's now shredded into a tunic. And Glinda is wearing this blue and lavender instead of that signature pink. Walk me through what you were trying to communicate with those opening looks.

[Paul Tazewell]

I see my work as a costume designer to be one of a storyteller, you know, and I'm telling a silent story that reveals itself adjacent to the performances of the characters. Throughout these two beautiful films, you know, I was giving context to what their backstory was. I mean, you know, for each of our principal characters, Elphaba and Glinda, where they came from. With Elphaba, we have been left at the very end of the first film, Wicked Part 1, with Defying Gravity, and she's in her very best dress, dressed to meet the wizard for the first time. And she's also paired that with her pointed hat. And when she jumps out of the window with the velvet cape that she's added on and her broom, we realize that she's completely self empowered. I mean, she has arrived and has taken hold of her own power. So to enter into the beginning of Wicked for good, we get this sense that she has never really gone back to society. She's stayed in exile. And a way of expressing that was to keep her in the same dress. But because she has been out there, you know, she's advocating for animals, saving animals really, and taking down lines of guards that, you know, we see at the very beginning where they're all laying the yellow brick road. She has become a huge force and, you know, kind of a superhero. So I wanted to relay that with her silhouette, but also to show the weathering of her garment. So it's the same cape that we saw at the end of Wicked Part 1 in Defying Gravity. You know, the lining has come out of it, it's starting to fray, and it just adds to the texture of who she is. The same with her coat, the sweeping coat that she's upcycled from a raincoat. But the idea that she has taken just a few things into the forest and then she's recreating herself as this heroic image paired with the pants that we have and also her knee high boots. So, you know, in setting that up, I'm making choices about what is the silhouette going to be, how does it potentially align or become nostalgic of the 1939 film and that Wicked Witch of the West. So that we're always threading, you know, all of these ideas of the wizard of Oz and Oz, you know, just the Ozian sensibility all together and wrapping it up in a way that makes sense and says something more, as I was saying, says something more about the characters as well.

[Tonya Mosley]

How did you come to the decision to have Elphaba wear trousers?

[Paul Tazewell]

Something happened just to my design brain when Jon M. Chu said that he was casting Cynthia Erivo. And this is after looking at a number of different Elphabas. And I was actually privy to some of those audition tapes just to see where his mind was, but to then see that he was thinking of putting Cynthia in that role. 1. I had already worked with Cynthia in Harriet, and I knew her range. I mean, I knew I. You know, I fully understood her connection to clothing, how she develops a character. But I knew that she would be able to go to a place that would use the agility of wearing trousers as a means of athletic expression and power. The ability to move allowed for her to navigate the world in a way that was more expansive than being in a skirt and jacket all the time, which is how I set her up. I mean, she enters into the world of Shizu dressed in black, you know, and that was another part of the equation was, why does she wear black? And there were many conversations that Jon M. Chu and I had the director, you know, around, how do we define why she is wearing black? And I made the decision that, well, she lost her mother very early in life. She was in mourning, so she wore that color, you know, signifying mourning. And then to adopt that as a way to pull herself apart from the rest of the community, which we see presented, you know, when she's a little girl and, you know, how the other children in the neighborhood make fun of her. And that holding onto that armoring that's created by wearing black, it felt real in a way, because, you know, you think about high school students or young students who dress in black or in a very goth way to make themselves feel special or to, you know, create a separation from the rest of, you know, those bullies that are. That might be hurting them, you know, just to create some significance in their personality.

[Tonya Mosley]

This is so fascinating, what you're saying, because in that way, the black stands out. Because I would guess that black is one of the hardest colors to make visually interesting. But up against this colorful world, I mean, it feels like that texture and that detail in her costumes also show up in the black.

[Paul Tazewell]

Thank you for mentioning that. I mean, that was, again, another element is that she's side by side with Galinda Glinda, who is always dressed in pink or in light tones, and they are often very feminine in feminine fabrics. Light, airy, elegant, beautiful, those things that are desirable. I made the decision that there had to be balance, and then it just continues to expand. You know, I was talking about how Cynthia was cast. You know, it was the first time that a black woman had ever been cast in that role, which was surprising because the whole point of the story is that she is, you know, being ostracized or vilified or, you know, that she's othered because of the color of her skin. Now it's a direct connection to, you know, the racial structure of, you know, even our country. There are so many similarities in the emotions story for a person of color and how that relates to Elphaba.

[Tonya Mosley]

Okay, Paul, I want to go back to your childhood because the 1939 version of the wizard of Oz with Judy Garland, it's a tradition for many families to watch it. And growing up, your family would watch it on Easter.

[Paul Tazewell]

Absolutely.

[Tonya Mosley]

Do you know why your family made it an Easter tradition to watch?

[Paul Tazewell]

I think that that was when it actually played, you know, because we, you know, this was before there was VHS tapes, as I have it in my memory. It was annually that, you know, my three brothers, myself and my two parents would sit and we would experience, you know, the wizard of Oz. And it became very, you know, informative. I mean, it was, you know, for me as a designer, you know, the idea of visual magic. You know, when you think about most specifically going from sepia tone in Dorothy's house to Technicolor when she enters into Munchkinland, I mean, that's one of the most magical transitions that I've, you know, that I can remember. So, you know, I have that in my bank of imagery. As I think about, you know, other projects that I'm designing, there are other films as well. I mean, if you think about Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, or you think about Mary Poppins or Cinderella, Disney, I mean, so at that time, all of those magical stories, all those movies were folded into our, you know, just our family culture, you know, and what we would watch for entertainment.

[Tonya Mosley]

Your mother taught you to sew when you were around 9 years old?

[Paul Tazewell]

That's right.

[Tonya Mosley]

What made you want to learn?

[Paul Tazewell]

You know, I think that I was always transfixed by the crafts and working with my hands. And my mother, you know, I was always, you know, right at her side, you know, as she would draw and paint or early on in my life, she was making puppets and doing puppet shows with her sister and with my older cousins. They would create these puppet shows for libraries in and around Akron, for the schools and for the church. And so I was really fully connected and engaged with what they were doing in that kind of crafting. And so in some way that fed into my desire to create, to work with my hands. I think that Creating clothing was just the next step. You know, my mother had a Singer sewing machine, and she would set it up and she would make costumes and clothing for us, you know, my brothers and myself also. She was making things for herself, and then, you know, it was just a skill that I wanted to have so that I could start to create things for myself. So I would make dashikis and different kinds of clothing, you know, shorts and, you know, it's just a way of, you know, it was an activity.

[Tonya Mosley]

Okay. You have been living in the world of Oz for a really long time in various different ways. We talked about the wizard of Oz as a child. And in high school, you designed costumes for your school's production of the Wiz.

[Paul Tazewell]

That's right.

[Tonya Mosley]

What do you remember about that experience and what drew you to design rather than to perform?

[Paul Tazewell]

I, at that time, I had not let go of performance. But, you know, in 1978, the Wiz came out as a film.

[Tonya Mosley]

Yep, that's right.

[Paul Tazewell]

The one with Diana Ross and Michael Jackson. Nipsey Russell was in it, and Richard Pryor and Lena Horne. And that was hugely formative for me visually. To see black faces in this epic film rendered in great style and amazing music by Quincy Jones, it blew my mind, you know, to see that kind of expression of disco iconography represented as the Emerald City world, you know, because I knew the wizard of Oz from 1939, but then to see it told in our, you know, my cultural language was, you know, life changing. It was like, oh, yeah, well, of course, you know, this all works beautifully, you know, or like the. I think they call them the winkies in the film. Those people in the factory that are working for Evileen, when they unzip out of their bodies and the skin falls away. And then there are these beautiful dance theater Harlem dancers, and you see their brown skin and, you know, just, you know, that was, again, mind blowing. It was magical then because I went to a magnet school in Akron. Part of that was that there was a performing arts program within that school. And at that time, I wanted to be an actor, singer, dancer. That was my hope and drive. So at 16, my teacher, Arnold Thomas, he realized that I was very interested in costume design, and he offered me the project of designing all the costumes for this production of the Wiz that they were going to do in the spring. Now, I also auditioned for the Wiz as well, and I was given the role of the wizard or the Wiz in that production as well.

[Tonya Mosley]

Yeah.

[Paul Tazewell]

So I was designing the costumes and also in the production at the same time. Yeah, but, you know, I was in heaven. You know, I loved creating these fantasy characters through my lens. Now, it was greatly informed. When I think about what I created, I was very much inspired by or, you know, you could say, you know, copying the film, you know, but it was, you know, it transformed into what we could actually manifest. Thankfully, my, you know, my mother, my dad, my brothers, we all, you know, they all chipped in. Oh, it was a family affair at the end. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, much of that time I was creating them on my own.

[Tonya Mosley]

Were you creating like designing and then sewing them and putting it all? Everything.

[Paul Tazewell]

Yeah. The only thing that I didn't sew was my white suit that my mother made for me as the Wiz. So I, you know, she made my white suit. It was a double breasted suit. I love, I love. It was a shark skin suit and a white cape with green lining.

[Tonya Mosley]

Oh my God.

[Paul Tazewell]

You know, there was a gold lame pleated cape and dress that I designed for Glinda. That was my continuing evolution of problem solving and the creation of worlds that I continued to fall in love with.

[Tonya Mosley]

Paul Tazewell, this has been such a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you so much.

[Paul Tazewell]

Oh, so great to talk to you as well.

[George Clooney]

Thank you.

[Tonya Mosley]

Paul Tazewell is an Oscar, Emmy and Tony winning costume designer known for his work on Hamilton west side Story, the new film Wicked for good and more.

Fresh Air Weekend is produced by Teresa Madden. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our managing producer is Sam Brigger. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham with Terry Gross. I'm Tonya Moseley.

This message comes from the Council for Interior Design Qualification. Interior designer and CIDQ president Siyavash Madani discusses why certified professionals know that good design is more than just how something looks.

[Paul Tazewell]

Being NCIDQ certified means you've qualified to.

[George Clooney]

Protect the health, safety and welfare of.

[Paul Tazewell]

The public in the spaces that you design. Good design is never just about aesthetics. It's about intention, safety and impact. So an NCIDQ certified interior designer must complete a minimum of six years of specialized education and work experience and pass the three part NCIDQ exam. All three exams emphasize and focus on.

[George Clooney]

Health, safety and welfare of the occupants.

[Paul Tazewell]

Being NCIDQ certified means that you've proven your knowledge and skills through rigorous exams and are recognized as a qualified interior design professional.

[Tonya Mosley]

Learn [e-mail] NPR.