Fresh Air (NPR): "Best Of: Jane Fonda / Spike Lee"

Date: September 6, 2025
Hosts: Terry Gross, Tonya Mosley

Overview

This "Best Of" Fresh Air episode brings together two icons—Jane Fonda and Spike Lee—for intimate conversations about their legendary careers, personal transformations, and moral commitments. Jane Fonda, now 87, reflects on her journey from Hollywood royalty to outspoken activist, exploring the interconnection between her public platform and private healing. Spike Lee discusses his new film Highest to Lowest, a hip hop-infused reinterpretation of Kurosawa’s High and Low, while delving into his creative process, cinematic inspirations, and the ongoing struggle for racial and social justice.

Jane Fonda: A Life of Resistance and Reinvention

[03:10] Empathy and Activism in Dark Times

• Empathy as Strength: Fonda’s SAG AFTRA Lifetime Achievement speech lamented increasing polarization and called for empathy:

  “Empathy is not weak or woke.” ([03:10])

• She urges Americans to build solidarity across political divides, especially as “a whole lot of people are going to be really hurt by what is happening, what is coming our way.” ([04:53])

Who She’s Thinking Of

• Fonda describes “flyover country” Americans who’ve lost steady union jobs:

  “When the rug has been pulled out from under you… you’re going to be very angry.” ([05:40])

• She refuses to demonize Trump voters, insisting on a “big tent” approach:

  “We have to not judge, but we have to put forward a vision of what we think America should be.” ([07:07])

[07:07] The Urgency of Activism

• Fonda rejects retirement or retreat:

  “I can’t even imagine right now being on an island someplace… This is not the time to go inward. We have to go out. We have to speak, we have to shout.” ([07:17])

• She warns:

  “We’re very, very close to becoming fascist in this country. I never, ever imagined that… but it’s beginning to happen.” ([07:39])

[08:19] Arrests and Responsibility

• Discusses being arrested five times for climate protests, yet notes her privilege:

  “They don’t treat me the way they would if I did exactly the same thing and I was Black.” ([08:23])

• Her current focus is building power “down ballot” for local democracy and climate resilience:

  “This is where the real climate and democracy work is being done right now.” ([08:51])

[09:35] Reckoning with Her Generation

• Fonda admits her generation’s complicity:

  “It’s called neoliberalism… particularly starting in the 80s moved to corporate liberalism… moving to the middle, which is not what we need.” ([09:35])

[10:14] The Fitness Empire’s Surprising Roots

• Fonda started her workout business to fund activism:

  “It turned out it was the workout. So the money went to the Campaign for Economic Democracy.” ([10:14])

[12:35] Family, Forgiveness, and Healing

• On Her Father: Henry Fonda objectified her, but as she aged:

  “He wasn’t perfect, but he was a good man. He did his best. That’s the way men of that generation thought about women.” ([12:48])

• Her Mother’s Death: Discusses her mother’s suicide and how her grief shaped her.

  “She was bipolar… she was sexually abused at age 7.” ([14:07], [14:47])

Profound Realization

• Obtaining and reading her mother’s institution records was transformative:

  “I started shaking… And all I wanted to do was take my mother in my arms and hold her and tell her how sorry I was.” ([16:40])

[17:22] Reinvention After Retreat

• Fonda’s “lost years” from acting were spent married to Ted Turner:

  “You can’t be married to Ted Turner and have another job. That’s the job and it’s a full time job.” ([17:22])

• Her comeback came with the film Monster-in-Law ([18:12]), later leading to the hit Netflix series Grace and Frankie ([18:34]).

[20:53] Performing Aging: Grace and Frankie

• Fonda describes the joy (and initial creative anxiety) of playing Grace:

  “I had a nervous breakdown the first season… What it triggered… was abandonment. And so the whole season was about dealing with abandonment.” ([21:26])

• Ultimately, therapy helped her fall in love with the character and process real wounds.

[23:10] The Life Force: Resilience

• Fonda attributes endurance to resilience:

  “That was me. … You find love where you can, you find support where you can. That’s a resilient child.” ([23:10])

[24:08] Refusing Stasis

• She rejects the fatalism of aging:

  “I’m grateful that I have a very vibrant old life.” ([24:08])

Memorable Quote:

“We are sick and tired of being dismissed by people like you. Mic drop. Let’s go home.” —Jane Fonda as Grace ([20:22])

Spike Lee: Morality, Music, and the Power of Cinema

[25:29] Highest to Lowest: A Modern Kurosawa

• Denzel Washington stars as music mogul David King, whose friend’s son is kidnapped—a play on Kurosawa’s High and Low.

• The film explores the central moral quandary:

  “What would you do to save your own child? What would you do to save the child of someone you love?” ([27:02])

  Film Clip ([26:15–27:02]): Powerful negotiation between King (Washington) and the abductor (A$AP Rocky).

[27:35] Interpretation, Not Remake

• Lee clarifies:

  “I say reinterpretation because I’m running away from the word remake… It really deals with morality.” ([27:35])

• On working with Denzel:

  “When they’re going through trials and tribulations, the audience becomes engaged, and they’re with that person every step of the way.” ([28:36])

[29:08] Music as Cinematic Character

• The music mogul setup was in the script before it reached Lee. He immediately said yes, sight unseen, because of his trust in Denzel ([29:13]).

The Dynamics of Sound

• Lee opens the movie with “Oh, What a Beautiful Morning,” contrasting with hip hop throughout:

  “I love all types of music. … Every time I was like, I don’t want to go. And then we’ll come out of there, I said, ‘Mommy, that was good.’” ([30:16])

• Anecdote: Lee recalls his mother dragging him to the movies despite protests, shaping his love for cinema ([30:16–31:22]).

  Laughter Moment:

  “Mommy, why is that lady, why is her name Pussy Galore?” ([31:25]) “My mother grabbed me by the neck and said, ‘Don’t you say another thing.’” ([32:27])

[34:25] Sustaining Passion

• Lee insists he’s never lost his love for filmmaking:

  “I truly believe I was put here to be a storyteller… If you could make a living doing what you love, you won.” ([34:54] [35:54])

• Contrasts “business side” with creative spark, advising students to focus on passion.

[36:21] Challenging and Channeling Anger

• Early on, Lee was labeled “belligerent” by the press around releases like Do The Right Thing ([36:32]).

  “When Do the Right Thing premiered in Cannes 1989, [journalists] said this film was going to cause riots, Black people riot in the summertime.” ([37:32]) “It’s kind of crazy looking back on that. Like a film’s not gonna do that…but we… talked about [things that] came to life in later years.” ([38:01])

[38:58] Musical Heritage

• On his jazz bassist father Bill Lee’s musical purism:

  “Anything that was played with electricity, you know, he was not with that. … He called it ‘tone ass is.’” ([39:20])

• Family struggles depicted in Crooklyn are true to life ([40:07–41:28]).

[41:46] Malcolm X and Cinematic Impact

• Tonya Mosley recalls seeing Malcolm X for a school trip, ending with a communal recitation of “I am Malcolm X.”
• Lee shares getting Nelson Mandela to appear in the film:

  “I cannot say by any means necessary”—Mandela was running for office, wary of “kill you white folks” misconstruction ([44:53–45:26])

• John David Washington (Denzel’s son) appears as a child in that scene ([45:48]).
• The “I am Malcolm X” classroom scene is an homage to Spartacus and to diaspora unity:

  “I wanted to show the bond between African Americans and our brothers and sisters who were still [under apartheid].” ([46:01])

[47:07] On Recognition and the Academy

• Lee recounts loss and frustration at the Oscars (e.g., Do the Right Thing losing to Driving Miss Daisy and BlacKkKlansman to Green Book). Humorously notes:

  “Every time somebody’s driving somebody, I’m gonna lose. Driving Miss Daisy and Green Book.” ([48:37]) “There’s footage of me being not happy… jumped out of my seat… cursing and my wife trying to have me sit down…” ([48:37])

[49:31] World Cinema’s Influence

• Lee draws a line from Kurosawa’s Rashomon to She’s Gotta Have It:

  “That premise I use for She’s Gotta Have It. So this is not the first thing, you know, I’m getting down with my brother Kurosawa.” ([50:07])

[50:40] Meeting Kurosawa

• Meeting Kurosawa, receiving an autographed portrait in white paint—a treasured memory ([50:40–51:22]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We are sick and tired of being dismissed by people like you. Mic drop. Let’s go home.” —Jane Fonda, as Grace, Grace and Frankie ([20:22])
• “Empathy is not weak or woke.” —Jane Fonda ([03:10])
• “I started shaking… and all I wanted to do was take my mother in my arms and hold her.” —Jane Fonda on reading her mother’s records ([16:40])
• “If you could make a living doing what you love, you won.” —Spike Lee ([35:54])
• “Every time somebody’s driving somebody, I’m gonna lose.” —Spike Lee on Oscars ([48:37])
• “Mommy, why is that lady… her name Pussy Galore?” —Young Spike Lee to his mortified mother ([31:25])

Key Timestamps

• [03:10] Jane Fonda’s speech and “documentary moment”
• [07:07] Fonda on urgency and activism in America
• [10:14] Fitness empire origins
• [12:35] Parental legacy, loss, and healing
• [20:22] “Mic drop” scene from Grace and Frankie
• [27:02] Clip from Highest to Lowest
• [34:54] Spike Lee’s philosophy on passion and filmmaking
• [41:46] Emotional response to Malcolm X in theaters
• [45:25] Nelson Mandela’s cameo and reasoning
• [48:37] Oscars losses and candid reaction
• [50:40] Lee meets Kurosawa

Concluding Thoughts

Both guests exemplify lives led with courage and self-examination. Jane Fonda’s journey highlights transformation, resilience, and an unflagging call to justice. Spike Lee remains cinema’s provocateur and conscience, using artistry to force society’s toughest questions into the daylight. This episode captures the spirit, wit, and wisdom of two culture-shaping legends in conversation as the world changes around—and because of—them.