Fresh Air - Best Of: Novelists Liz Moore & Julian Barnes
Date: January 31, 2026
Hosts: Dave Davies, Terry Gross
Guests: Liz Moore, Julian Barnes
Producer/Contributor: Maureen Corrigan (book review of George Saunders)
Overview
This "Best Of" Fresh Air episode features in-depth conversations with acclaimed novelists Liz Moore and Julian Barnes, delving into their latest works and the creative, emotional, and existential themes that drive their writing. The episode also includes Maureen Corrigan's review of George Saunders' new novel, Vigil. The tone throughout is thoughtful, candid, and insightful, with guests and hosts sharing personal stories and reflections on literature, life, and loss.
Segment 1 – Liz Moore: Exploring Grit, Place, and Mystery
(Dave Davies interviews Liz Moore, 02:31 – 26:36)
Liz Moore’s Literary Background and Settings
- Moore’s acclaimed novels span a range of gritty, emotionally resonant settings.
- Long Bright River: Focuses on addiction, policing, and sisterhood in Philadelphia’s Kensington neighborhood.
- The God of the Woods: A literary mystery set in an exclusive Adirondacks camp; explores class and familial power dynamics.
Inspiration for Long Bright River
- Moore isn’t from Philadelphia but moved there and was introduced to Kensington through photographer Jeffrey Stockbridge.
- “I was a little bit unprepared for what I would see. But what I was immediately struck by was how much the neighborhood had been failed in various ways… And also just the incredibly moving and interesting and complex conversations I had with the people I was interviewing at the time.”
— Liz Moore (04:47)
- “I was a little bit unprepared for what I would see. But what I was immediately struck by was how much the neighborhood had been failed in various ways… And also just the incredibly moving and interesting and complex conversations I had with the people I was interviewing at the time.”
- Personal connection: Moore’s own family has a history of addiction, drawing her back emotionally to Kensington.
- She became involved in community work, running free writing workshops, which provided life experience for her fiction.
The Central Sisters of Long Bright River
- Mickey, a patrol officer, and Casey, her younger sister struggling with addiction and survival sex work, are estranged.
- “Mickey self identifies as kind of the good sister who's always made all the right choices. And she has cast Casey into this role of being the, quote, unquote, bad sister. But those ideas become very complicated over the course of the novel.”
— Liz Moore (07:11)
- “Mickey self identifies as kind of the good sister who's always made all the right choices. And she has cast Casey into this role of being the, quote, unquote, bad sister. But those ideas become very complicated over the course of the novel.”
Adapting to TV
- Long Bright River became an eight-part series on Peacock.
- Moore, as co-creator, highlights the importance of bringing Kensington community members into the production for authenticity—including musicians, clergy, and graffiti artists.
- “If I'm what I'm proud of in the series, it’s making sure that members of the community had a voice within the series transparently.”
— Liz Moore (10:11)
- “If I'm what I'm proud of in the series, it’s making sure that members of the community had a voice within the series transparently.”
- Regret: The series was shot in Brooklyn for budget reasons, not in Philadelphia.
The God of the Woods: Class, Wilderness, and Literary Titles
- Set in a fictional Adirondack “great camp” and neighboring town; inspired by family ties to the region and the real social dynamics between wealthy camp owners and the working class.
- The camp’s survivalist ethos is contrasted with the lives of locals, who "actually required to use the skills of hunting and fishing and trapping for their survival” (13:46).
- The title shifted from Self Reliance (after Emerson) to The God of the Woods, invoking the Greek god Pan and the concept of “wood panic.”
- “Wood Panic itself contains within it the word panic, which comes from the Greek God Pan, said to be a kind of playful trickster god who liked to make people feel lost in the woods.”
— Liz Moore (15:36)
- “Wood Panic itself contains within it the word panic, which comes from the Greek God Pan, said to be a kind of playful trickster god who liked to make people feel lost in the woods.”
The Writing Process
- Moore writes early in the morning, before family life pulls her in—almost compulsive:
- “98% of the time, writing is labor for me. 2% of the time…it feels like flying.”
— Liz Moore (17:46)
- “98% of the time, writing is labor for me. 2% of the time…it feels like flying.”
- She doesn’t outline her novels, instead tracking character chronologies as she goes.
Emotional Cost of Writing Mysteries
- Moore admits to struggling with putting beloved characters in harm's way:
- "My mind splits in two, and half of my mind goes, oh, no, I have to put this character through this. And the other half is like, oh, yes, this is exactly right for this book.”
— Liz Moore (20:05)
- "My mind splits in two, and half of my mind goes, oh, no, I have to put this character through this. And the other half is like, oh, yes, this is exactly right for this book.”
- Discusses the inevitability of feeling “stuck” in a draft, but trusts the process: "Oh, there you are. I know you. I've seen you before. I am going to just have to hit my head into the wall…” (21:11).
Literary vs. Genre Boundaries
- Moore is indifferent to the literary vs. thriller distinction, resisting the US genre focus:
- “I don't really care what genre my books are called. I write the way that I've always written…I think reading in general is a morally good thing for human beings to engage in… lets us decompress from the very rapid onslaught of information that we get from other forms of technology…”
— Liz Moore (25:27, 25:49)
- “I don't really care what genre my books are called. I write the way that I've always written…I think reading in general is a morally good thing for human beings to engage in… lets us decompress from the very rapid onslaught of information that we get from other forms of technology…”
Segment 2 – Book Review: George Saunders's Vigil
(Maureen Corrigan reviews, 27:23 – 33:03)
Saunders and the Bardo
- Corrigan describes Saunders’ Vigil as a “briefer and bumpier return to the Bardo”—a liminal space between life and death, rooted in Buddhist belief.
- The protagonist, K.J. Boone, is an unrepentant oil CEO forced to review his life with the help of a spiritual facilitator, Jill, whose story becomes the novel’s emotional anchor.
- Notable Passage (from Jill’s perspective):
“Once there’d been no me and then they’d come along and made me, and now I was gone and they were, too. What was the point of it all?”
- Notable Passage (from Jill’s perspective):
- Corrigan praises Saunders’s unique blend of the “bodily profane and the spiritual.”
- “That wild swirl of the bodily profane and the spiritual, the elegiac and the comical, is what makes Saunders writing so spectacular.”
— Maureen Corrigan (32:53)
- “That wild swirl of the bodily profane and the spiritual, the elegiac and the comical, is what makes Saunders writing so spectacular.”
Segment 3 – Julian Barnes: Mortality, Hybridity, and Grief
(Terry Gross interviews Julian Barnes, 34:27 – 51:49)
Facing Death and Blurring Genres
- Barnes’s new book Departures is a hybrid of memoir and fiction, partly chronicling his rare blood cancer diagnosis and partly exploring memory, mortality, and love.
- “This is a hybrid. It's not a term that publishers like. They like to have something that says fiction or non fiction and… now I just said, well, it's Julian Barnes new book…”
— Julian Barnes (36:54, 37:06)
- “This is a hybrid. It's not a term that publishers like. They like to have something that says fiction or non fiction and… now I just said, well, it's Julian Barnes new book…”
- Defends authorial intent:
“I want you to know that I know exactly what I'm doing when I'm writing…” (38:07)- He enjoys having characters in the book rebuke his style, showing playfulness with literary conventions.
Preoccupation with the Ghoulish and Extreme
- Barnes has a long-standing fascination with bodily extremes and the macabre, often spurred by his radiologist friend’s medical clippings.
- “I have a friend who's a consultant radiologist and who sends me clippings…my interest tends towards the ghoulish and the extreme.”
— Julian Barnes (39:32)
- “I have a friend who's a consultant radiologist and who sends me clippings…my interest tends towards the ghoulish and the extreme.”
- Quotes Montaigne, advocating for a daily familiarity with death:
- “We should think about death on a daily basis. We should make it our familiar. That's the best way of treating it…”
— Julian Barnes (41:38)
- “We should think about death on a daily basis. We should make it our familiar. That's the best way of treating it…”
Grief, Suicidal Ideation, and Meaning
- Barnes talks candidly about the aftermath of his wife’s death, which left him contemplating suicide—an episode resolved by the realization that he is the best “rememberer” of his wife and owes her continued existence to his memory.
- “I realized that if I killed myself, then I…would in a way be killing her too. I'd be killing the best memories of her… At that point it just turned on its head…”
— Julian Barnes (49:56)
- “I realized that if I killed myself, then I…would in a way be killing her too. I'd be killing the best memories of her… At that point it just turned on its head…”
- On agnosticism:
- “I think that life is all we have and there's nothing after it. It's very hard to believe in a calm and loving God when you look at the state of the world.”
— Julian Barnes (48:09)
- “I think that life is all we have and there's nothing after it. It's very hard to believe in a calm and loving God when you look at the state of the world.”
- Reflects on meaning, grief, and the possibility or impossibility of finding comfort in religious belief or hope for afterlife.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- Liz Moore on writing:
“98% of the time, writing is labor for me. 2% of the time...it feels like flying.” (17:46) - Moore on adaptations and authenticity:
“If I'm what I'm proud of in the series is making sure that members of the community had a voice within the series transparently.” (10:11) - Barnes on death:
“We should think about death on a daily basis. We should make it our familiar… And then we should hope to die while planting out our cabbages.” (41:38) - Barnes on mourning and purpose:
“I realized that if I killed myself...I would in a way be killing her too. I'd be killing the best memories of her.” (49:56) - Maureen Corrigan on George Saunders’s style:
“That wild swirl of the bodily profane and the spiritual, the elegiac and the comical, is what makes Saunders writing so spectacular.” (32:53)
Key Segment Timestamps
- 02:31 – Dave Davies introduces Liz Moore
- 04:47 – Moore’s discovery of Kensington
- 07:11 – The sisters’ divergent paths in Long Bright River
- 10:11 – Moore on bringing Kensington voices into TV adaptation
- 12:24 – The God of the Woods: inspiration and class dynamics
- 15:36 – The genesis of the novel’s title and themes of “wood panic”
- 17:46 – Liz Moore on her writing process and discipline
- 20:05 – On writing painful scenes for beloved characters
- 25:27 – Moore’s view on literary vs. genre fiction
- 27:23 – Maureen Corrigan’s review of Saunders's Vigil
- 34:27 – Dave Davies transitions to Barnes segment
- 36:54 – Barnes discusses hybrid writing, resisting genre labels
- 39:32 – His interest in the ghoulish/extreme (including medical anecdotes)
- 41:38 – On Montaigne, death, and daily reflection
- 49:56 – Barnes discusses grappling with suicide and memory
- 51:49 – Barnes and Gross conclude the interview
Summary/Conclusion
This Fresh Air episode weaves together intimate conversations about storytelling, life, death, and love through the voices of Liz Moore and Julian Barnes. Moore discusses her process, community-focused approach, and resistance to genre pigeonholes, while Barnes reflects on loss, the craft of hybrid narrative, and existential confrontation with mortality. The episode’s tone is warm and bracingly honest, providing listeners with a sense of both the emotional depths and the intellectual joys at the heart of contemporary fiction.