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- [00:01]
Tonya Moseley
This message comes from Capital One. Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.combank for details. Capital One NA Member FDIC from WHYY in Philadelphia, this is FRESH AIR Weekend. I'm Tonya Moseley. Today, Rami Youssef his new animated comedy series, Number One Happy Family USA, is about an Egyptian American Muslim family living in New Jersey after 9 11, trying to blend in and doing everything they can to avoid being seen as a threat. At the heart of the story is a middle schooler dealing with a double dose of paranoia.
- [00:44]
Rami Youssef
Is Courtney, the popular girl talking about me behind my back? And are the phones tapped? Yeah, you know, and usually people just have to deal with the Courtney part.
- [00:56]
Tonya Moseley
Also, Danny McBride talks about his HBO series the Righteous Gemstones, about a wildly dysfunctional family of televangelists fighting for power, influence and their father's approval. We get into what keeps drawing him to these hilariously flawed, emotionally stunted characters, and he shares the surprising inspiration behind the signature swagger his characters always seem to carry.
- [01:20]
Danny McBride
George Jefferson, he honestly is like one of my favorite characters when I was a kid. Like I just thought he was so funny and how mean he was was and funny he was and that little bit of a swagger he had.
- [01:31]
Tonya Moseley
That's coming up on FRESH AIR Weekend. This message comes from Schwab at Schwab how you invest is your choice, not theirs. That's why when it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices. You can invest and trade on your own. Plus get advice and more comprehensive wealth solutions to help meet your unique needs. With award winning service, low costs and transparent advice, you can manage your wealth your way at Schwab. Visit schwab.com to learn more. Support for this podcast and the following message come from Made in Cookware President and co founder Jake Kalik shares a tool that's useful for both master and newbie griller. The craftsmanship of the carbon steel griddle enhances your grilling experience because it allows you a totally different type of grill surface that that opens up the amounts of food you're able to cook. So the griddle is the perfect accessory to add to your grill and kind of widen your grilling game. Learn more about Made in Cookware at M a d e I-n cookware.com this message comes from Capella University. The right support can make a difference. That's why at Capella University learning online doesn't mean learning alone. You'll get support from people who care about your success and are there for you every step of the way. Whether you're working on a bachelor's, master's or doctoral degree, you can learn confidently knowing you'll get the dedicated help you need. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more@capella.edu. this message comes from NPR sponsor Shopify. No idea where to sell? Shopify puts you in control of every sales channel. It is the commerce platform revolutionizing millions of businesses worldwide. Whether you're a garage entrepreneur or IPO ready, Shopify is the only tool you need to start, run and grow your business without the struggle. Once you've reached your audience, Shopify has the Internet's best converting checkout to help you turn them from browsers to buyers. Go to Shopify.com NPR to take your business to the next level today. This is FRESH AIR weekend. I'm Tonya Mosley. Here's our first interview with Terry Gross.
- [03:39]
Terry Gross
My guest, Rami Youssef started as a standup comic. Then he created and starred in the semi autobiographical comedy drama series called rami, about a 20 something Egyptian American Muslim trying to make sense of how his life, including his sex life, fit with his commitment to Islam. The series won a Peabody Award and he won a Golden Globe for his performance. Yousef co created the comedy drama series Mo, starring his friend Mo Amer as an undocumented Palestinian American. Last year, Youssef hosted Saturday Night Live and had an HBO comedy special called More Feelings. His acting career is taking off. He he stars with Steve Carell and Jason Schwarzman in the new HBO movie Mountainhead, which debuts May 31. It was written and directed by Jesse Armstrong, the creator of HBO succession. In 2023, Youssef co starred in the film Poor Things, which won a Golden Globe for best motion picture musical or comedy and was nominated for an Oscar for best picture. Rama Youssef has a new animated series set just before and after 9 11. It's about an extended family of Egyptian Americans in New Jersey. The parents and grandparents are immigrants. The children were born in America. Each of them is trying to figure out how to respond to the Islamophobia that's resulted from the terrorist attack on 9 11. Rami Yousef was 11 years old and in fifth grade on 9 11. That's about the same age as the boy in the series. The series is called Number One Happy Family USA and that's streaming on Amazon Prime. In the father's attempt to prevent people from noticing they're an immigrant family and Muslim. He does his best to blend in by doing his best to construct the image of a happy, average American family. But because he doesn't quite understand American culture, just about everything he does to fit in is wrong, which only makes him stand out even more. The mother wants to stand up and defend Islam. This is a scene from the first episode, which takes place on 9 11, when the father and mother clash over how to respond. Rama Yousef does the voices of the father and the son. Salma Hindi voices the mother.
- [05:52]
Rami Youssef
Busa Rumi A lot happened today. Many people got hurt. This is the worst thing I have ever seen. Things are going to change for us. People are going to look at us differently just because of who we are. And what we must do now more than ever is find our face and be strong. No, we must blend in and change our values as much as possible. We will change everything about who we are to fit in. We must always be cheerful. We will never stick out. We from today have no culture. When people see our family, they won't think Arabic. They will think they are happy. They are perfect. We are number one happy family, usa.
- [06:38]
Terry Gross
Remy Youssef, welcome to FRESH air. It's such a pleasure to have you back on the show. That scene is so funny. I love it when the father says, from now on, we have no culture.
- [06:49]
Rami Youssef
It's really great to be back after many years. I really appreciate it. And yeah, you know, it was, you know, it was this idea of really, really tapping into how, you know, it's almost kind of, it is really funny. And it's so cool that it gets to be funny. But it's obviously there's the other part of it that's really sad, which is, hey, maybe if I try to erase as much of myself, I'll be able to fit in. And I think that's the idea that I'm obsessed with. You know, there's obviously all the conversations about overt racism, Islamophobia, all these things on the outside. The parts that I always tend to hone in on is, well, what is the person doing to themselves amidst all that pressure?
- [07:28]
Terry Gross
What were the discussions like in your family living in New Jersey after 9 11? Were there conversations in your family about whether to stand up and defend diversity and defend Islam or whether to just, like you said, erase part of themselves?
- [07:47]
Rami Youssef
Yeah, I mean, I don't know that it was exactly hit the erase button, but it really was okay, you know? Cause it's such a sad, terrible thing. And we're just near, you know, the site of death of so many people who, you know, innocent people. So there's that piece where you're just as sad as everyone else, but then it turns towards you and who you are, and so you kind of go, okay, we should be quiet or something. It's incredibly confusing. It's incredibly disorienting. And I think within my family, we were always proud of who we were and where we come from. And at the same time, you kind of don't want to rock the boat. And I think my father was very pragmatic about it all. And I remember him kind of being like, you know, my family is really well read. They really. You know, I grew up with books all over the house, and my dad was just like, yeah, Japanese people went through a lot after Pearl harbor happened. He was already kind of saying almost. There was this feeling of this might be our turn right now. And that was at the time. And then now it's kind of like, so when does the turn end? Exactly. What's going on?
- [09:01]
Terry Gross
Did you code switch a lot when you were 11? After 9? 11, like the cartoon version of the sun does. Part of the code switching is not just the way he talks. It's also what he wears to try to look like all American.
- [09:17]
Rami Youssef
Yeah, I mean, I grew up in New Jersey, and there was this, like, burgeoning emo rock scene, and I was so jealous of my friends who had the straight hair and wore the tight pants, and I had this curly fro, and I tried to hide it with a hat. I was always wearing hats. And, you know, even in my older age, it's like such a holdover from being a kid and trying to just stuff it under a hat. But, you know, the beauty of this series for me has been that I think everyone code switches, you know, and I think we leaned into this animated style where the family literally looks different when they're inside the house and when they're outside the house. And I think to an extent, everybody does that, you know, and what becomes, you know, the larger pressure cooker is that there is this performance that this family is literally doing for the FBI agent who moves in across the street. But at that core, underneath all of it, I think this is what everybody does, and I think it's certainly what kids do. And so in so many ways, it really feels like this quintessential just middle school experience. But you add onto it the creation of Homeland Security.
- [10:25]
Terry Gross
Right. A good reason to be paranoid. Like, you have every reason to feel like you're sticking out. You're not fitting in. And maybe that means prison.
- [10:34]
Rami Youssef
Yeah, it's very much okay. Is Courtney the popular girl talking about me behind my back? And are the phones tapped? You know, and usually people just have to deal with the Courtney part. And now this kid has both of them. And that's where the series lives.
- [10:55]
Terry Gross
So there's briefly a grandfather in the series, and he is very sexist. Like, he is the man, and he has control, especially control over his wife. He's grumpy. He orders people around. And at one point he says, I sacrificed everything for this family. Most men of my generation hit. And he's referring to hitting women. And he says, I only yell. I didn't even take a second wife. So did you have a grandfather who was like that? And if so, how did you deal with it? Like, did you say anything?
- [11:31]
Rami Youssef
My grandparents never lived with us. I mean, this is trying to kind of create something that's more emblematic of that generational thing than my actual grandfather, who was quite different and was also, you know, my grandfather is really interesting because he grew up in a village. He was one of two people who could read. And then he took that and became one of the only ones there again who went to college and then actually became an interpreter for the United Nations. He interpreted between Arabic and French and eng for over 20 years. So he's kind of this totally different mold, I think of that, Jen, because he was such a.
- [12:10]
Terry Gross
Can I just stop you for a second? That's amazing. He was one of two people in his village who could read, and he became a UN translator.
- [12:17]
Rami Youssef
It is so much more impressive. Sometimes people will say to me, oh, dude, you were just like a kid in New Jersey, and now you have this whole Hollywood thing. And I go, man, in terms of ARCs within my family, that's not really. It's like, yeah, I should have. Of course I have.
- [12:34]
Danny McBride
What.
- [12:35]
Rami Youssef
What came before me. I mean, he, he set the bar.
- [12:39]
Tonya Moseley
We're listening to Terry's interview with Rami Youssef. His new series is called Number One Happy Family usa. We'll hear more of their conversation after a break. I'm Tanya Mosley, and this is FRESH AIR weekend. This message comes from Capital One. Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.combank for details. Capital One NA Member FDIC. This message comes from Thuma. Create your oasis with Thuma, a modern design company that specializes in furniture and home goods by stripping away everything but the essential. Thuma makes elevated beds with premium materials and intentional details with clean lines, subtle curves and minimalist style. The Thuma Bed Collection is available in four signature finishes to match any design aesthetic. To get $100 towards your first bed purchase, go to T H U M A CO NPR this message comes from BetterHelp. This Mental Health Awareness Month. BetterHelp is encouraging everyone to take care of their well being and break the stigma associated with mental health. BetterHelp works to make people healthy and happy because when people are taken care of, everyone benefits, including families, colleagues and communities. Visit betterhelp.com NPR to get 10% off your first month.
- [14:05]
Terry Gross
So you write and sing songs for this series and I want to play one that's I think you can describe it as the theme song. And it ends the first episode of Number One Happy Family usa. So let's hear it and then we'll talk about writing songs. So this is in the voice of the father.
- [14:25]
Rami Youssef
Hello, hello neighbors. You're afraid of us near you but the only blood we want is to bleed red, white and blue. I know you think we're scary but I swear to you we're we will.
- [14:42]
Tonya Moseley
Prove to you our love.
- [14:44]
Rami Youssef
We will be number one, number one family in USA Number one happy family.
- [14:56]
Terry Gross
This.
- [15:03]
Rami Youssef
Takes a boy.
- [15:07]
Terry Gross
So what made did you think you should turn part of this into a musical?
- [15:12]
Rami Youssef
So, yeah, that song comes out of the earlier clip that you played where he kind of proclaims out of peak anxiety to his family that they're going to erase their identity. And then he bursts the door open and starts singing this proclamation to the neighborhood and forces his family to come out and dance with him on the front lawn. And then the song, as you can kind of hear there, ends with the police swarming the house, a helicopter, and then Hussein sacrificing his son to the authorities, you know, hoping that that will appease them. And, you know, I felt this it's either gonna be we're making something depressing or something so insane that you have to laugh at this depressing subtext. And so it had to be the latter. And that's where music just started to feel like such a fun extension.
- [16:12]
Terry Gross
Have you ever been in a band?
- [16:14]
Rami Youssef
In high school I was in a band and played backup guitar, backup vocals and always fiddled around with, you know, guitars. And then I kind of had put them I put the music thing down as I kind of went into music, into comedy and performing and all of that. And then we were Doing these voices at a sound studio that had all these instruments. And I probably picked up the guitar hour for the first time after many, many years and started singing these songs as the dad and had so much fun. And then we ended up baking it into the show.
- [16:51]
Terry Gross
In your band, did you do covers or originals?
- [16:54]
Rami Youssef
It was originals, and if you go back and listen to the originals, you'd probably encourage us to do covers.
- [17:03]
Terry Gross
Well, in addition to, like, the number one happy family song that we just heard, you write some dark songs, and I want to play a dark song. This is a father singing. One of the lines he sings is, sometimes the darkness comes for me. This is his deep internal feelings, not the facade he's trying to put on. So let's hear that. Do you want to say anything about it before we hear it?
- [17:26]
Rami Youssef
This comes at the end of an episode where we've seen him probably be his most performative. And then he has this moment when everyone's asleep, and he goes out into the driveway and sits by his halal cart. He's a halal cart vendor in the city, and it's always parked in the driveway. And I love that image because it's sticks out in this suburb that they can barely afford. And he sits at it, starts playing guitar, and at a certain point, there's, like, a piano line in which he hits the area of the cart where the sodas are stored, and it opens up into a keyboard, and there's a piano that comes out of the cart. And so he's singing this thing that sounds sad, but at the same time, visually is, I think, quite funny.
- [18:17]
Terry Gross
And it's the kind of thing you can only do in animation.
- [18:20]
Rami Youssef
Yes.
- [18:21]
Terry Gross
Yeah. Okay, let's hear it.
- [18:37]
Rami Youssef
I think I'm scared, but I'm sitting with my family. Got to show them that I'm brave. Sometimes I'm quiet, but I think it's just because I might scream. I've got to be Mr. Tough Guy. I'm the dad, but sometimes.
- [19:02]
Tonya Moseley
Oh, oh.
- [19:04]
Rami Youssef
The darkness comes for me and I don't know what to do yeah, the darkness oh, it comes for you, too. And what do you do? I think I'm gonna fight for the light.
- [19:31]
Tonya Moseley
Yeah, I think I'm gonna fight for.
- [19:36]
Rami Youssef
The light.
- [19:41]
Tonya Moseley
I think I'm gonna fight for the light.
- [19:48]
Rami Youssef
Baby, I'm fighting the fight.
- [19:55]
Terry Gross
Do I detect a very slight Lou Reed influence in that?
- [20:01]
Rami Youssef
Somebody called it Kebab Dylan. Somebody else was like, wait, dude, this is like, war on drugs. This is like some sort of, like, Arab Jeff Buckley thing. Yeah, it's totally this, like, folk thing that is so fun to do as this character because it kind of sneaks up on you. And he, again, he's so crazy the whole episode. And then all of a sudden you go, oh, my God, this guy's so tender, and there's this tenderness in him. And that is the experience of so many of the men that I know where you go, oh, man, this dude is, like, kind of intense. And then you get him alone and you go, wait, is this the most emotional person on earth?
- [20:45]
Terry Gross
Yeah. Okay. And I want to point out again that that was my guest Rami Youssef, singing on that song. Is that your guitar also?
- [20:53]
Rami Youssef
It is.
- [20:54]
Terry Gross
Good for you. And that was an excerpt from Rami Youssef's new animated series, Number One, Happy Family usa. You started out in college studying political science and I think economics as well. I'm not sure where that came from, considering where you've ended up. But how did you go from that to comedy?
- [21:17]
Rami Youssef
I was very bad at school, and so I ended up, you know, I ended up leaving. I was always in high school, really middle school and high school. I was fascinated with cameras, and I was always making things. And then in the back of my head, I said, this is what I love doing the most, but there's no way I'm going to be able to actually live doing this. And I didn't see a path to it being a career because I didn't know anyone who'd ever done that. So I just thought I had to go to school and become a lawyer, you know, because that was kind of the only thing I could imagine myself doing, even if I had no real connection to, like, the law. I just said, well, I know how to talk. And it seems like those guys talk, and then they're able to feed their families by talking. So that was kind of all. I could say nothing to it. And then I was, you know, there's some books you gotta read in the middle. And then this comedy thing comes up and you go, oh, well, you could talk here, too. And this is way more in line with what I love about art and filmmaking. And so, yeah, it just became inevitable at a certain point.
- [22:29]
Terry Gross
It seems to me that the standup comedy world is so different than what the life of a faithful Muslim would look like. Cause, you know, I don't know what circles you traveled in, but you think of standup comics, first of all, of, you know, just being on the road all the time and having really bad eating habits and drinking a lot. So were There parts of your life, especially early on when you had to. You probably had less control of your life early on when you started in stand up. Even things like, is it five times a day? Yeah, yeah. Praying five times a day As a young comic on the road.
- [23:14]
Rami Youssef
Yeah.
- [23:15]
Terry Gross
I'm sure there were some very inopportune times that you wanted to pray, and you were on, like, a bus or a plane or doing a set. How do you manage that? Like, what do you have to make certain compromises?
- [23:31]
Rami Youssef
Well, this is a great thing. There's so many great features that are built in, Terry. You just do traveler's prayers where you can combine. I mean, it's amazing.
- [23:37]
Terry Gross
Oh, there's travelers prayers.
- [23:39]
Rami Youssef
Oh, yeah.
- [23:39]
Terry Gross
Are there special prayers?
- [23:40]
Rami Youssef
Oh, you can combo. You can combo and shorten. But I think that the thing you're talking about, though, terms of, like, fitting it in in certain places. This is where I actually think an artistic lifestyle is so interesting because so my father, you know, worked managing hotels. Always on his feet, always dealing with people. Hey, where do I pray? Like, the broom closet. You know, there's that. And it's just like, where's that gonna happen? And then, you know, when you're an artist, it's like everyone assumes you're gonna be 20 minutes late. You know, there's this whole other, you know, kind of way. And I always think, you know, I'm surrounded by spiritual people, you know, whether they are, you know, part of any sort of practicing thing or not. Because Hollywood is basically, hey, I have this 130 page, you know, thing. And I know you don't see it yet, but I see it. I believe in the unseen of these words on this page. Come with me and let's all believe in it together and make it right. It's such a spiritual, you know, everyone is tapping into, you know, the unseen.
- [24:46]
Terry Gross
Do you have prayer breaks for everybody? Who wants it on your sets?
- [24:53]
Rami Youssef
We do. Yeah. It's on our call sheet.
- [24:55]
Terry Gross
Rami Youssef, it's really been such a pleasure to have you back on the show. Thank you so much.
- [25:00]
Rami Youssef
Oh, thank you for the, you know, just incredibly thoughtful questions. It's always just so exciting. So I thank you, Terry.
- [25:07]
Tonya Moseley
That was Terry Gross speaking with Ramy Youssef. His new animated series is called Number One Happy Family usa. It's now streaming on Amazon Prime Video. Well, up next is my conversation with Danny McBride. His latest show, the Righteous Gemstones, just finished its fourth and final season. It's a dark comedy about a rich Southern family of televangelists who talk about salvation on tv. But behind the scenes, it's all dysfunction, greed, scandal and sometimes even crime we watch throughout the show's run. The most ridiculous antics, a mass baptism and a wave pool gone wrong. A full frontal parking lot fight scene and the gospel banger misbehavin. At the center of the Gemstone family is Eli Gemstone, played by John Goodman and his three deeply flawed adult children who are constantly caught up in rivalries and schemes to keep their religious empire intact. In the scene I'm about to play, the three siblings played by McBride, Edie Patterson and Adam Devine, are trying to convince their dad, Eli, who has retired as the head preacher, to come back to the church for a fundraising event to honor their late mom. Goodman's character, Eli, who speaks first in this clip, has left town on a boat to escape the church and the family.
- [26:28]
Danny McBride
What can I do for you kids? Ain't nobody heard whether you were coming back for Mama's birthday celebration telethon. Just curious if maybe your RSVP is floating around some bottle out here. Yeah, well, I'm not gonna make it. What? Why come?
- [26:44]
Tonya Moseley
It's for mom and Daddy. Yeah, that's your dead wife, remember?
- [26:47]
Rami Youssef
Dude, of course.
- [26:49]
Danny McBride
I just. I'm out here, I'm trying to wrestle with things. I'm trying to figure out what I need. This dude's down here wasted away in Margaritaville thinking he's Robinson Caruso like you. Tom Hanks from that one motion picture, Philadelphia. No, not the AIDS one. The by himself one.
- [27:05]
Tonya Moseley
No, the dang, I just had it.
- [27:08]
Danny McBride
The by himself one. What is the Tom Hanks by himself one?
- [27:11]
Tonya Moseley
Castaway.
- [27:12]
Danny McBride
Castaway. Bingo. That's what you doing, Daddy. You out here acting like you in that damn motion picture.
- [27:19]
Tonya Moseley
Danny McBride has built a career, really an empire as a writer, actor and producer with a sharp sense for the ridiculous side of masculinity and ambition. He creates men who are loud, delusional and hilarious in part because they are totally unlikable. Think Kenny Powers, the trash talking, washed up baseball player in Eastbound and Down. Or Neil Gamby, the petty power hungry vice principal and vice principals. His films include this is the End, Tropic Thunder and Pineapple Express. Most of the righteous gemstones was filmed in and around Charleston, South Carolina, where McBride has carved out his of Hollywood south with his longtime collaborators David Gordon Green and Jody Hill running their production company, Roughhouse pictures, and Danny McBride. Welcome back to FRESH AIR.
- [28:10]
Danny McBride
Thank you so much. I appreciate being on here.
- [28:14]
Tonya Moseley
Remind us of how this idea kind of came About. I read that you initially wanted to write something about the Memphis Mafia right around the time that Elvis died.
- [28:24]
Danny McBride
I did. I had an idea I was working on called the King's Dead that was all about sort of that summer when Elvis died. And it was, you know, it was gonna be a crime story about the Dixie Mafia. And I don't know, I just. I was playing around with it, but I never really found the right angle into it. But there was a lot of details and things I liked about that world and that. I don't know, that attitude for characters. And so I kind of had to put a pin in that for a while. I wasn't sure what to do with that story. And after I moved to Charleston, South Carolina, which was in 2017, I just. Once I got here, I'd moved from Los Angeles. I just was seeing how many churches were around, and it just got me kind of thinking about. When I was a kid, I used to go to church a lot. I was raised in a pretty religious family, and it just kind of got my brain thinking about what church is like now. And so I started doing some digging around and kind of researching, and that's when I kind of came around this idea of these megachurches and kind of like, noticing how they were starting to inhabit old box retail stores here in the south. And they were just kind of popping up everywhere. And the more I kind of dug around on it, the more it kind of seemed like, well, maybe that Dixie Mafia story could unfold in a televangelist family. Maybe. Maybe we could mash those two things together.
- [29:37]
Tonya Moseley
You mentioned that your family was religious. What did that look like?
- [29:43]
Danny McBride
You know, when I was a kid, we were. We were Southern Baptists. And my parents. Both My parents were, like, pretty heavily involved in the church, and we were one of those families. We were there, like, every Sunday. We'd be there on Wednesdays. We. You know, my mom was a. She did puppet ministry at the church. So we had, like, you know, we would help her take these puppets to church early Sunday morning. And, you know, so we were. We were pretty involved. And then, you know, when I was in sixth grade, my parents got divorced. And, yeah, it was a really interesting thing because we had kind of given this church so much of our time, and then kind of we were there, and it was like my mom just sort of raising me and my sister, and then suddenly, like, you know, the church wasn't so much of a welcoming place. You know, there was a lot of judgmental eyes there because my mom had Gotten a divorce. And it just remember. I remember it being a very eye opening experience for me about some of the people that went to that church and about that level of acceptance and kind of, I don't know, it might have been honestly where the initial spark of just like, wow, everyone's here to, you know, learn about one thing. But it's interesting how everyone here doesn't necessarily, you know, take that and behave that way.
- [30:49]
Tonya Moseley
When you were helping your mom with her puppet shows, were you working on ideas too? I'm thinking about you as a young storyteller.
- [30:57]
Danny McBride
You know, I was just inspired by her. I remember when she first started doing it, she got like a typewriter and I remember like watching her write these sort of like two or three page, you know, little plays that they would end up doing on Sunday. And I never helped with them or wrote on them. But I remember like watching her do it and then I got to like, I would hear them and then I would see what was performed and I just always kind of admired it. I thought it was cool that she was doing that. So I just think that from seeing my mom be a storyteller at such a young age, I think it definitely kind of made an impact on me as far as, like, you know, that that's. People can do that. You can craft a story and use it to kind of connect with people, you know.
- [31:35]
Tonya Moseley
One of the things about the series I find remarkable is like, it skews this world of big time preachers and televangelists, but it never feels like it's mocking the sincerity of their faith. And I'm just wondering, how did you find the balance, like between, I guess I would say, like satire and respect. Like, did you ever go too far in your writing and then think, okay, I gotta pull this back a little bit.
- [32:05]
Danny McBride
We're always self censoring, I guess. Like, we'll always do it first and then we'll decide as it goes on what's too far and what's not enough. But it was interesting when I started this and I met with like the other writers. Like, that was something as I was watching like other like comedies that are set in the world of religion. That was like one thing I kind of noticed with all of them is that like there was a level of disrespect there towards just people believing, believing in something. And I don't know, I didn't. That stuff didn't resonate for me and I felt like I wasn't in on the joke. The joke felt a little bit like, I don't know, biting, pessimistic. You know, it's, it's, it's easy for someone who doesn't believe in something to just be like, haha, look at all these idiots. And that to me just didn't seem like what I wanted to spend my time doing. And so from the get go, that was sort of what I told the writers. I'm like, listen, I don't ever want any of the jokes to really be about like, religion. I don't want them to be about someone's faith. You know, like, let's, we're setting these characters in here who are hypocrites and like, let's make them the butt of the joke. And from that we might be able to actually explore something even greater and even open the door to more people coming into this show than maybe would normally.
- [33:12]
Tonya Moseley
Our guest is Dani McBride, creator and star of the Righteous Gemstones. We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Tonya Mosley and this is FRESH AIR Weekend. This is a message from noom. When it comes to weight loss, no two people are the same. That's why noom's programs are personalized and based on your unique psychology and biology. With noom, the days of starting and stopping weight loss plans are over. Start building Better Habits with Noom. Get your personalized plan today@noom.com. this message comes from Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com, progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. This message comes from Warby Parker. Prescription eyewear that's expertly crafted and unexpectedly affordable. Glasses designed in house from premium materials starting at just $95, including prescription lenses. Stop by a Warby Parker store near you. My guest today is Danny McBride, actor, writer and the creative mind behind HBO's the Righteous Gemstones. He's also known for his breakout role as Kenny Powers in Eastbound and down and the unhinged school administrator and vice principals. The Righteous Gemstones, which just completed its fourth and final season, is a satirical comedy about a dysfunctional Southern televangelist family. I gotta play a clip to give people kind of a grounding of this. The thing about the Gemstone kids is that I don't think anybody ever really talks the way they do and yet they kind of feel really believable. So this clip I'm about to play is from season two, and it's the three siblings. You, your sister, played by Edie Patterson, and your brother, played by Adam Devine. And you all are standing by this statue of your late mother. And you've got this announcement to make that soon you will be the head of the church. And of course, the three of you, start fighting. Your character speaks first. Let's listen.
- [35:18]
Danny McBride
Accept my dominance. Or don't. Doesn't matter to me. The damn tides of time and the winds of dust are upon us. My reign is nigh.
- [35:25]
Terry Gross
What the did you even just say, man?
- [35:27]
Tonya Moseley
That made no sense to me. That sounded foreign. That's not a phrase, dummy.
- [35:31]
Terry Gross
Oh, my.
- [35:32]
Danny McBride
You're just both a bunch of two bit half rage siblings. Damn. Frank Stallone and Stephen Baldwin over here. I'm Stephen Baldwin. Yes, you are.
- [35:41]
Tonya Moseley
Oh, no, you did not.
- [35:43]
Danny McBride
I ain't got no time for this. Bye, Felicia. Okay.
- [35:46]
Tonya Moseley
No. What did he just say?
- [35:48]
Rami Youssef
No.
- [35:48]
Tonya Moseley
Did he just say Bye, Felicia to me?
- [35:50]
Terry Gross
Yeah. What does that mean?
- [35:51]
Danny McBride
Bye, Felicia.
- [35:52]
Tonya Moseley
Jesse, you will never run this family.
- [35:55]
Danny McBride
So bye, Felicia to you, Jesse. Who's Felicia? You are.
- [35:58]
Tonya Moseley
No, you're Felicia. Let's just all act like adults.
- [36:00]
Danny McBride
You're Felicia.
- [36:01]
Tonya Moseley
We can ask our adults if he's Felicia.
- [36:04]
Danny McBride
Cause I'm not Felicia.
- [36:07]
Tonya Moseley
That was the scene from season two of the Righteous Gemstones. And my guest today is creator and star of the show, Danny McBride. Okay, first off, Danny, take me inside your brain. What do you know about bi.
- [36:19]
Danny McBride
Felicia, are you ready for this now? Oh, God. I mean, you know, I have, like I said, I have young kids. They are constantly on YouTube. They're constantly showing me just silly stuff, and so all of it ends up just bleeding into my head somewhere or another. And the Gemstone siblings are just like, so stunted that, I don't know, just seems like they just communicate in broken English mixed in with tons of pop culture.
- [36:46]
Tonya Moseley
One of the through lines. In addition to, like, trying to inherit an empire, the thing that you do in the Righteous Gemstones is all of the children absolutely adore and worship the memory of their mama. And that love feels so authentic. The mother wound they obviously have by her loss, it almost feels like it's what makes them good and redeemable. It feels like they also really do love the Lord, despite the fact that they're obviously messed up.
- [37:17]
Danny McBride
Yeah, I mean, I think that with that, I mean, as we started, you know, it's interesting. Like, when I first started writing the show, the very first attempt I had on the pilot was. It was. I was A minister. And Edie, actually I had written her to be my wife. And we were in a small church and I was being blackmailed by a bigger church, church that wanted to move in on us. And it was going to kind of be about us going up against that bigger church. And I just was real, I was struggling. I wrote that script and there was something about it. I'm like, it just doesn't. I don't know where this goes and I'm not really identifying with who this minister is. And there just wasn't enough there for me to kind of put my hooks into. And then as I started like really looking at the story, I was kind of like, you know, who's interesting are the people that would blackmail a small time minister to take his church. And so then it was sort of like a light went off and it was like, that's who this is about, you know, and, you know, a lot of people don't have experience with running a megachurch or can identify with that. So for me, it suddenly became like, it's about a family and it's a family who's suffered loss. Because I think that's something that people can identify with. And I think when you find those things that are relatable, then you, if you can hit those things earnestly, I think you can then put those characters in any world and people will take the ride.
- [38:37]
Tonya Moseley
Have any church families or people just in general reached out to you and said, this is us?
- [38:43]
Danny McBride
Nobody has been that like, specific. But, you know, I did talk to different pastors when I was doing the show. Before I did the show. I don't know if they would have talked to me after I was doing the show. But there were people who definitely opened their doors to me and let me just pick their brains and ask questions about how a church is run and about the minutia of it. And there was, there was one minister that I talked to and he was very open about just how it was run and, you know, and. And what, how things worked. And I saw him actually just a few months ago out in town and he kind of came up and then whispered into my ear. He's like, nobody knows I've seen it, but you nailed it. That's what he said.
- [39:23]
Rami Youssef
Oh my gosh.
- [39:25]
Danny McBride
And when I saw him, my heart drops. I'm like, oh, God, what's he going to say?
- [39:29]
Rami Youssef
Right?
- [39:29]
Tonya Moseley
You try to avoid him. What percentage of the show is kind of ad libbed?
- [39:37]
Danny McBride
You know, out of all the shows we've done, we definitely did a Lot of improv in Eastbound and a lot in VPs. This show actually has the least amount of improv we probably have done of all of our shows, just because there's so many spinning plates with all the different characters and everything that we always kind of just end up being up against the clock to pull it all off. So most of it is probably scripted more than anything we've done before. But we kind of also allow ourselves that if somebody has an idea on the day, we're not precious about. And so scenes like at church lunch, when you have all those characters sitting around there, we would rip on those days, for sure. Like, everybody would just kind of riff. And those are the scenes where you have the entire cast there. So it'd be kind of foolish to film and not let someone say something if they want to.
- [40:21]
Tonya Moseley
Can you recall a scene?
- [40:24]
Danny McBride
Oh, let's see. The church lunches, they happen a lot in a lot of the seasons. And so the schedule on Gemstones is very aggressive. You know, a lot of times we have, like, two and three location moves during the course of the day. But church lunch, because there's so many characters and it's on a set, it's like, those were the days we had with the most control. So you would usually have a full day to shoot those scenes. And, you know, that just allowed for everybody, I think, a to kind of, like, take a breath and just like, you know, hey, we're all here just to have fun, and there's not some ticking clock to be worked against. And you would just go around the table and, you know, Edie throws in something, and then when on the next take, Adam throws in something, and, you know, it would just turns into all this chaos. I mean, I think in the second season, I think it's like, in the first episode, maybe we're sitting around at church lunch, and we're talking about how Judy and BJ Got married at Disney World. And then we start, like, railing on her about, like, were any of the legacy characters present? And, like, all of that stuff was all just improv. And it was so fun just to kind of sit there and, you know, Edie's gotta be. She's gotta be disgusted by us, and we're poking holes in her wedding. And so everyone's just throwing in all of their Disney knowledge and acting like they're Disney pros. But that was just how every day with all those characters were. We would just have fun and try to ultimately make each other laugh.
- [41:47]
Tonya Moseley
Let's listen to that. That scene, which was in the second season, Disney World was a thing.
- [41:53]
Terry Gross
It was BJ's dream wedding destination. So we did it Nike style, dawg. We just did it.
- [41:58]
Tonya Moseley
Okay? That's how we roll. We're seat of our pants. We're fun kids. We're wim babies. So we meant no disrespect. Daddy.
- [42:06]
Danny McBride
Oh, Daddy.
- [42:07]
Tonya Moseley
I just want to know who officiated the wedding. Was it Donald or was it Goofy?
- [42:11]
Danny McBride
Ooh, slice. That was a good one.
- [42:14]
Tonya Moseley
It was Prince Eric, for your information.
- [42:16]
Danny McBride
Thank you, Prince Eric. Who the is that?
- [42:18]
Tonya Moseley
The boy from Little Mermaid. The hottest guy in the entire Disney catalog. It's Ariel's boyfriend.
- [42:23]
Terry Gross
You.
- [42:24]
Danny McBride
Oh, Lord. Y' all went down to Disney World, didn't invite any family to come to your wedding, and you didn't even get a legacy cast to marry.
- [42:30]
Tonya Moseley
What legacy character are we supposed to go for that's better than Prince Harry?
- [42:33]
Danny McBride
Oh, I don't know. How about Mickey Mouse?
- [42:36]
Rami Youssef
Mickey.
- [42:36]
Tonya Moseley
Enough, Judy.
- [42:38]
Danny McBride
I don't want to discuss the Mermaid wedding.
- [42:42]
Tonya Moseley
That was the scene from season two of the Righteous Gemstones. And my guest today is creator and star of the show, Danny McBride. Did you grow up with a lot of cursing around you?
- [42:54]
Danny McBride
You know, I didn't, but I was. I loved cursing. I mean, when I was. Obviously, when I was a kid, like, I, like, two Live Crew and Eddie Murphy, and, like. I mean, I just had all this stuff. I would. I would record this stuff, like, from friends on cassette tapes. I remember, like, Eddie Murphy's Delirious. I had, like, an audio tape of it that I had recorded off of, like, a friend's, like, VHS or something, and I would just put it in my Walkman. And I can remember, like, driving to church with my parents in the back seat, and they're like, what are you listening to? I'm like, nothing. Nothing. You know, I would just be, like, just listening Daddy Murphy or listening to live. I mean, it just always tickled me. I just always thought it was so funny, just someone speaking with such vulgar. It just. I don't know. I think it ruined me. It tainted me.
- [43:44]
Tonya Moseley
Well, it definitely is infused in your shows. How do you navigate, like, the children on set and stuff when there's all that cursing? Which I should say, it's gratuitous, but it also really works. I just always have to watch your shows when my kids are out of the room, you know?
- [44:03]
Danny McBride
Yes, I do, 100%. Well, you know, what we try to do with it is that, like, even that language part of it is, like, it's an extension of these. Of, like, the character development in a strange way. It's like that sometimes that language is used because they don't have the facilities to sort of express what they want to say. And so relying on just, like, some bombastic way of communicating ends up being, you know, part of the fabric of who they are, you know, that it kind of represents some sort of, like, stunted ability to communicate. And so when we start looking at some of the cursing that way, I don't know, then it becomes like a weird sort of game of character development where it might, on the surface, just appear like they're dropping F bombs, but then there's actually thought behind why they're dropping the F bomb there.
- [44:49]
Tonya Moseley
Okay. Something I really wanted to know. Your character Jesse, and the gemstones, and if we go way back to Kenny in Eastbound and down, they both have, like, swagger, you know, like, the way that you walk. You kind of have this, like, gangster lean. And since you, like, brought up two Live Crew, I'm bringing this up. Is that how you move, or is that part of the characters you play?
- [45:14]
Danny McBride
I think it's a little bit part of the characters. I mean, I might have a little swagger in my life. I won't totally diminish my swagger. But, you know, it's also just like, you know, growing up, George Jefferson, he honestly is, like, one of my favorite characters when I was a kid. Like, I just thought he was so funny and how mean he was and funny he was. And that little bit of a swagger he had that. I don't know, it's just always something that sort of tickled me. And so Jesse, I definitely infused that with, like, Jesse, for whatever reason, is always, like, standing like he's about to, like, bow up and fight someone. You know, his fists are clenched, and he's, like, squeezing his cheeks together and just, like, you know, walking with the strut. But that's how I would just get into character. That was it.
- [45:57]
Tonya Moseley
Now that I'm thinking about it. Even that clip I played where you're like, bye, Felicia, as you're walking away, that is the George Jefferson walk, 100%. There's something in all of your characters, you know, you present as a really nice guy, but there's something in all of your characters. They're all kind of terrible. And I'm just wondering what interests you about these types of people. The Kinneys of the world, the, you know, Jessies of the world, you know.
- [46:29]
Danny McBride
You know what I think it is? I think he's trying to Find the perfect clown for some of this comedy. You know, I think if a character is too goofy, I don't identify with them as much or, like, that comedy doesn't speak to me as much. And so then it's sort of like finding, like, how do you center a comedy around a clown? But it's not just pratfalls or just, like, goofy behavior. And so, to me, character deficiency starts to be what seems like something fun to play around with. These are such exaggerated, enlarged, like, versions of people around us, you know, that. I don't know, there's something about it that it's like, by making fun of somebody who doesn't know how to express themselves or just wears their emotions on their sleeve to such an obnoxious level, there's something there that, as you make fun of them, you can also kind of, like, poke at the truths of that, of, like, why somebody would behave that way and what that ultimately probably means. And so I don't think it's like trying to create a defense for jerks, but it is just a way of, I guess, exploring jerks in a way that is comical and maybe a little enlightenment.
- [47:32]
Tonya Moseley
David Green and Jody Hill, you guys have been longtime partners for a really long time. When did you guys know that you all had something special?
- [47:41]
Danny McBride
Oh, I can't. You know, I don't really know. I mean, it's like, you know, we all met at the North Carolina School of the Arts, and we're in. It was in Winston Salem, and it's just this kind of tiny film school at the time. And it was not in the cards for me to go somewhere like NYU or USC. And this was, like, in 1995 is when I was a freshman at school there. And so I was really just trying to, like, calling around, trying to find a film school that I could a afford and I could hopefully get into and, you know, film schools at that point.
- [48:07]
Tonya Moseley
You mean when you say it was not in the cards for you, is you mean because of the cost or.
- [48:13]
Danny McBride
Yeah, there was just no way that. Yeah, there wasn't. Just. So there wasn't a world where I would have been able to have afforded those loans or been able to get them out. Get them out. And I actually had a friend who had gone to NYU that, like, lived in my neighborhood, and. And he kind of graduated right as I was applying for schools. And I remember that he had, like, asked a lot of for money, and then he was sort of disgruntled when he graduated from school and now had, like, a ton of debt and. And wasn't sure what he was going to do next. And so I. The whole thing seemed daunting and kind of scary to me, so I needed to find something that I could. That I could afford. And so School of the Arts was. Was a state school in North Carolina, and the film program was brand new. I think we were the third class that. That graduated from there. And what I really liked about that school was that. That when you made a movie there, you weren't allowed to spend your own money. You weren't allowed to go raise money outside of what the budget was like. They gave you what the budget was. And that was part of the education was like, how do you make it work with what you're given? And I felt like what was nice about that is it seemed like it put all the filmmakers on the same playing field. It wasn't like the rich kids were going to have the best movies. Everyone was given a number, and this is what everyone needed to create their vision with. And it was awesome. And I think to pull that off, you really had to rely on the other people that were at school with you and your friends and your collaborators. And I think that's what sort of started Jody and, you know, David and John Kachuri and Jeff Bradley, these other guys I work with that are still involved with the show.
- [49:50]
Rami Youssef
I don't know.
- [49:51]
Danny McBride
It just made us always want to kind of rely on each other more than rely on, like, on the system.
- [49:58]
Tonya Moseley
You know, I read that. Is it true that Kanye west approached you and asked you to play him in a biopic he did.
- [50:08]
Danny McBride
It took me a while to believe that that was Kanye West. When he called me, my phone rang and he said, this is Kanye West. It was just like, get out of town. No, it's not. Who is this? Yeah, it was a few years ago. He reached out, and I guess he was a fan of some of the work I had done and said he wanted to come to meet me in Charleston, South Carolina, to talk about a project. And he came down here and we hung out for this awesome day and went out in a boat and talked about life. And he was telling me he was interested in doing a story about his life and wanted me to play him. And it was just sort of like, shocking and kind of like. It's like, I'm flattered, but I don't understand how it would 100% work. But it's like, let's talk.
- [50:53]
Tonya Moseley
Did he talk about what he sees in the characters you play and how you, like, really draw out these themes that really spoke to him.
- [51:01]
Danny McBride
He just said that there was, I remember when we were on the phone call, he said there was like a fearlessness to it all that, like we were just kind of willing to kind of go there with things. And he felt like that's what would have been needed.
- [51:10]
Tonya Moseley
That had to be flattering, though, even if it was kind of crazy.
- [51:13]
Danny McBride
I guess it was very flattering. And it was a very, like, it was a day that I will definitely not forget. You know, we hung out and just talked about life and, you know, out in a boat for a while. And then we came back here and my son was pretty young at the time, and he we came into the house. My son's like, do you think Kanye wants to watch me play Fortnite? And I was like, I don't know, maybe ask him. And so, and then it just like for 10 minutes, Kanye and I just stood there watching my son play Fortnite.
- [51:42]
Tonya Moseley
That's love there, right? When the kids are like, watch me, you know, that means that you're cool, you know? Well, Danny McBride, I just want to thank you for all the joy that you brought me and so many others with the Righteous and thank you for this conversation.
- [51:59]
Danny McBride
I really appreciate it. Thanks for taking the time. It means a lot.
- [52:03]
Tonya Moseley
Danny McBride is the creator and co star of the Righteous Gemstones.
- [52:07]
Danny McBride
We gonna sing and we gonna dance Hallelujah.
- [52:14]
Tonya Moseley
Mama told me not to, I did anyway Misbehaving Daddy said don't But I said I'm gonna misbehavin Hide on a windowsill Swimming in the creek Catching crawdads and playing with a stick I wore.
- [52:28]
Rami Youssef
Lipstick and I got cold shaving Just.
- [52:32]
Tonya Moseley
Two little country kids outside Misbehavin Fresh AIR Weekend is produced by Teresa Madden. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our managing producer is Sam Brigger. Our technical director and industry engineer is Audrey Bentham with Terry Gross. I'm Tanya Moseley. Support for this podcast and the following message come from Cunard sailing to destinations Worldwide on Queen Mary 2, Queen Victoria, Queen Elizabeth and Queen Anne. Each voyage offers wellness and relaxation, culinary indulgence and unique enrichment. More@cunard.com this message comes from NPR sponsor 1Pass1 Protect your digital life with 1Password. If you're tired of family members constantly texting you for the passwords to streaming services, 1Password lets you securely share or remove access to logins access from any device anytime. 1Password lets you securely switch between iPhone, Android, Mac and PC with convenient features like autofill for quick sign ins right now. Get a free 2 week trial for you and your family at 1. Password.com npc this message comes from Warby Parker Prescription eyewear that's expertly crafted and unexpectedly affordable glasses designed in house from premium materials starting at just $95, including prescription lenses. Stop by a Warby Parker store near you.