Fresh Air: Best Of Samin Nosrat / Elizabeth Gilbert

Episode Date: September 27, 2025
Hosts: Sam Briger & Tonya Mosley

Overview

This “Best Of” episode of Fresh Air features revealing and vulnerable interviews with two acclaimed writers: Samin Nosrat, author of Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat and the new cookbook Good Things; and Elizabeth Gilbert, famed author of Eat, Pray, Love and the new memoir All the Way to the River. Sam Briger talks with Nosrat about her evolving view of recipes, confronting family and personal trauma, and recalibrating her life priorities post-success and loss. Later, Tonya Mosley interviews Gilbert about caregiving, codependency, addiction, and truth-telling in her latest memoir, reflecting on love, ethical storytelling, and facing the hardest parts of ourselves.

Samin Nosrat Interview (00:19–26:55)

Main Theme

Samin Nosrat discusses her surprising pivot to writing a book full of recipes (Good Things) despite her avowed dislike of recipes. She reflects on depression, recalibrating her sense of self-worth post-success, the complexities of family, and the importance of ritual, chosen family, and the pursuit of meaning outside of achievement.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Why Samin “Hates” Recipes (04:42–06:47)

• Recipes as Constraint:

  “I feel like they trap us. People can get trapped in a recipe... They feel really constraining, and that constraint hurts my heart.” (Samin, 04:57)

• The Big Picture:

  “There’s only seven or eight ways people cook things all around the world... my goal is to show how all of those things are connected and to show you how you have so much more power and knowledge than you think you do... But sometimes the big picture view can be really overwhelming.” (Samin, 05:43)

• Service Over Philosophy:
  Even though she dreams of liberating home cooks from strict recipes, she realized some people need recipes as a kind of handholding—a practical service.

The Practice of Cooking as “Touching Infinity” (06:47–08:04)

• Quoting Yo-Yo Ma:
  Samin draws from a Yo-Yo Ma interview with Terry Gross, comparing cooking to an artistic ritual that lets you “touch infinity”—an activity that connects to something bigger than oneself.

The Coleslaw Epiphany: Accepting Recipes (08:04–09:28)

• Reluctantly Recipe-Centric:
  After resisting suggestions to write a recipe book, she had a revelatory moment making a vibrant cabbage slaw.

  “I just stood there thinking, wow, this is so delicious and so simple, and if only I had, like, an easy way to share this with people. And then I was like, oh, I guess that’s a recipe.” (Samin, 08:45)

The Long Process behind “Sky High Focaccia” (09:28–12:10)

• Recipes like her focaccia require time and patience, but Samin argues that time substitutes for labor and yields much better results.

  “The time saves labor... thyme in a dough resting and fermentation... does this incredible work of flavor development... it is a much lazier recipe." (Samin, 10:18)

The Paradox of Recipe Precision (12:10–13:26)

• Impossible Precision:
  She struggles with the imprecision of measurements (a cup in England ≠ a cup in America, etc.), wanting recipes “loose enough to allow for flexibility, and... precise enough to guide you."

  “My frustration with recipes is at both ends... Now that I sound like a total mad woman, please buy my book.” (Samin, 12:25)

Shifting from Achievement to Meaning (15:11–16:37)

• Letting Go of Perfection:

  “I don’t want to act like I’ve gone through some like a Buddhist metamorphosis, but I’m trying... Before, I had only made the thing... and the thought of trying to do that again was really overwhelming... So I was like, oh, there is value in just making something. It doesn’t have to be the best thing I’ve ever made.” (Samin, 15:32)

Opening up About Family Trauma (16:37–23:19)

• Estrangement & Fear:
  After her father’s death, Samin feels able to reflect and speak publicly about having distanced herself from him due to fear and complicated history.

  “I lived with a very real fear that he would and could harm me… And that fear of my father, for sure, was present that night when I asked you to not talk about him.” (Samin, 17:49)

• Jewish Ancestry & Ritual:
  Discovering secret family history (Jewish ancestry) and being drawn to the communal rituals in Judaism—particularly the Sabbath as described by Abraham Joshua Heschel—informs her approach to food, ritual, and gathering.

  “There is just this beautiful sort of built in sense of collectivity… And that is an aspect of Judaism that I can really get behind." (Samin, 23:27)

The Power of Ritual & Chosen Family (25:17–26:52)

• Monday Dinners:
  Samin dedicates her book to her chosen family—her friends and her dog Fava—who anchor her with weekly rituals.

  “I have somewhere where I belong. And I don’t know that I’ve really ever had that before. And it feels really good.” (Samin, 25:48)

Notable Quotes

• On Recipes:

  “There’s only seven recipes in the world... a braise is a stew is a tagine, is simmered meat for tacos, is a delicious pot of sukiyaki.” (Samin, 05:15)

• On Release from Perfectionism:

  “What if you just try and make a thing?” (Samin, 16:12)

• On Healing & Purpose:

  “I want to look back and know that I made a life filled with beauty and friendship and joy and love and nature and goodness…” (Samin, 19:35)

Elizabeth Gilbert Interview (34:11–51:11)

Main Theme

Elizabeth Gilbert speaks movingly and unflinchingly about love, addiction, caregiving, and the ethics of storytelling, in the context of her new memoir All the Way to the River, chronicling her tumultuous relationship with Rhea Elias, her late partner.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Why Write So Openly? (35:36–38:05)

• From Friendship to Love:
  Rhea and Elizabeth’s bond evolved from deep friendship to romantic love when Rhea’s terminal diagnosis made denials impossible.
• Writing as Survival and Documentation:

  “From that moment, I started writing about her. From that day, from the very day that the terminal cancer diagnosis came in, because I wanted to... download her before I lost her.” (Elizabeth, 36:47)

• Both Rhea and Elizabeth knew and agreed a book would be written.

  “…she was sort of mandating it... We both very much wanted that.” (Elizabeth, 38:27)

Addiction—Both Rhea’s and Elizabeth’s (39:16–41:45)

• Harrowing Descent:
  Rhea—formerly in recovery—spiraled into a “low bottom” opioid and cocaine addiction as her illness progressed.
• Mirroring Addictions:
  Elizabeth describes herself as a “blackout codependent” who, faced with Rhea’s addiction and impending loss, enabled and facilitated destructive behaviors.

  “I had never known Rhea as a drug addict... I was also descending down to the most degraded version of myself...” (Elizabeth, 39:49)

• Love/People Addiction:

  “Raya was addicted to drugs. I am addicted to people... Our famished yearning for love is the great yawning chasm that we keep trying to fill with other things.” (Elizabeth, 41:45)

Sex and Love Addiction: The Mechanics (41:45–45:06)

• Process Addictions:
  Behaviors like “scouting targets, breaking into emotional vaults” (Mosley, 43:44) often consumed her, leading to self-destruction similar to substance abusers.

Codependency and the Edge Between Love & Madness (45:06–49:01)

• When Love Becomes Toxic:
  Elizabeth distinguishes between normal romantic intensity and dangerous, boundaryless fixation:

  “There’s things I can’t do that other people can do... I have to be awake and aware and conscious and respectful of that tendency in me...” (Elizabeth, 45:06)

• Rock Bottom:
  In the nightmare of Rhea’s end-of-life addiction, Elizabeth seriously contemplated killing Rhea to end the suffering:

  “I should just kill her… she just looked up at me and said, Think very carefully about what you’re about to do right now. And I wrote about it because this story doesn't make any sense unless I tell the whole story.” (Elizabeth, 49:01)

The Ethics of Radical Truth-Telling (46:04–51:11)

• Elizabeth reflects deeply on her commitment to tell the full, unvarnished truth of her and Rhea’s intertwined declines, even when it means exposing her own darkest moments:

  “I was not interested once I decided to write this book in my image management, because I was interested in the truth, and I was interested in showing what codependency and sex and love addiction can lead a person into. Even a person who presents as somebody who’s got it all together…” (Elizabeth, 50:35)

Notable Quotes

• On Addictions:

  “There are people in my life that I’ve used as a stimulant, and there are people in my life that I’ve used as a sedative.” (Elizabeth, 45:06)

• On Truthfulness in Memoir:

  “To withhold anything in order to make myself look better felt very unethical to me.” (Elizabeth, 49:01)

Timestamps: Key Segments

• 00:19–26:55 — Samin Nosrat Interview: On the real role of recipes, personal transformation, family, and ritual.
• 34:11–51:11 — Elizabeth Gilbert Interview: Radical memoir writing, addiction, codependency, and confronting hard truths.

Memorable Moments

• Samin’s Slaw Revelation (08:15): The moment she realized even a “recipe hater” sometimes needs... a recipe.
• Gilbert on enabling (39:16): The mutual gravity of addiction—drugs for Rhea, people and love for Liz—pulling them both under.
• Gilbert’s confessional climax (49:01): “I should just kill her...” and Rhea stopping her, a testament to the complexities of love, grief, and desperation.

Conclusion

This episode is a profound meditation on the creative process, caregiving, imperfection, and the quest for truth. Both Samin Nosrat and Elizabeth Gilbert grapple with how to tell their stories—through food, memory, and confession—in ways that connect, serve, and illuminate, even through their most vulnerable admissions. It’s an invitation to reexamine ritual, family, addiction, and the meaning we make out of our ordinary (and extraordinary) lives.