Brendan Fraser Has Everything & Nothing To Prove

Summary

Fresh Air: Brendan Fraser Has Everything & Nothing To Prove

Podcast: Fresh Air
Host: Tanya Mosley (for NPR)
Guest: Brendan Fraser
Date: November 24, 2025
Episode Focus: Fraser discusses his role in the film "Rental Family," his experiences of loneliness, career highs and lows, physical hardship, objectification, and what he has learned about himself and his craft.

---

Episode Overview

In this engaging and introspective conversation, Tanya Mosley sits down with Academy Award-winning actor Brendan Fraser to discuss his new film, "Rental Family," which explores the surprising business of surrogate relationships in Japan. Fraser thoughtfully reflects on themes of loneliness, connection, his unconventional upbringing, struggles with self-confidence, and his journey through the peaks and valleys of a Hollywood career. The episode is notable for its candid discussion of vulnerability, resilience, and the evolving relationship between an artist and his craft.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. “Rental Family” and Surrogate Connections

• Premise of the Film:

  • The film is based on the real phenomenon in Japan of rental family agencies, where people can hire someone to fill emotional or social needs—often due to stigmas around therapy or the difficulty of forming traditional relationships.
  • Fraser plays a struggling American actor in Tokyo who finds unexpected meaning by acting as a surrogate for lonely clients.

• Fraser’s Understanding & Research:

  • "There are about 300 or so businesses that operate now... since the early 1980s. The model is based on a need for people to fill the absence of loved ones or friends, but they still have a want to connect." [03:51]
  • Explains how the dense population of Tokyo paradoxically heightens feelings of loneliness and solitude.

• On Japanese Stoicism & Isolation:

  • Discusses the Japanese concept of "honne" (private feelings) and "tatemae" (public face), and how these cultural attitudes create both a need for surrogate connections and a taboo around discussing personal struggles.
  • "There's an attitude of... honetataimi... public face and private face. The public face is the mask that prevents what you truly feel." [06:02]

• His Own Experience as an Outsider in Japan:

  • Filmed with an entirely Japanese crew, which heightened his sense of being "othered" and informed his character’s experience.
  • "If ever I was recognized... it's anathema for people to approach you... I was never, ever approached, although I was clearly, obviously who I am." [09:10]

2. Personal Reflections & Vulnerability

• Loneliness, Family, and Grief:

  • Fraser reveals a personal loss—a baby sister who passed away at birth—which left a “vacuum” in his family. He shares that if he could hire someone to fill a role in his life, it would have been "a sister." [11:03]
  • "I didn't want to hang out with my smelly, aggressive, three older brothers all the time." [11:03]

• Sense of Home and Belonging:

  • Growing up as the child of a Canadian tourism official, Fraser moved frequently: "It challenged [my sense of belonging]... You're always the new guy, so it can be a challenge." [15:24]
  • "I was a brochure brat. That was as cool as it got for me, I think." [13:57]

• Acting as a Lifeline:

  • School was difficult due to moving and inconsistent curricula, but theater became his refuge.
  • "I knew the answer… it was with the little theater company." [17:30]

• Early Career and Self-Perception:

  • Fraser describes imposter syndrome and struggles with confidence, even after tremendous success.
  • "I struggle with confidence daily, all the time, and I should... I need to be reminded by myself that I am enough." [26:04]
  • Memorable Quote: "I don't have anything to prove necessarily any longer. And I have everything to prove still." [26:20]

3. Navigating Hollywood, Objectification, and Physical Cost

• Diverse Early Roles:

  • Contrasts the absurd comedy "Encino Man" with the serious drama "School Ties," expressing early ambitions for a versatile career.
  • "I thought it's not beneath me, but not really how I want to introduce myself to the world." [23:24]

• Experience of Objectification:

  • Fraser reflects on being treated as a "walking steak" in Hollywood, compared to how women are objectified.
  • "I can remember feeling being spoken of as if I'm not even in the room and being picked apart..." [37:39]
  • "I could automatically empathize with clearly the women who've always had to contend with this kind of derision." [37:48]

• Physical Toll of Action Roles:

  • Discusses injuries sustained during physically demanding movies like "The Mummy" and the long road to healing.
  • "If I wasn't in pain or bleeding, I wasn't working hard enough... and that's not necessary. I would caution actors to not do that." [36:17]
  • Now feels relief and gratitude for the ability to continue working with proper self-care (and letting stunt professionals do the dangerous work!).

4. Insights on Craft & Collaboration

• Growth as an Actor:

  • Relates collaborative experiences with directors such as Martin Scorsese and Darren Aronofsky.
  • "What I learned... is that they're just people... Scorsese pushes furniture around himself to block scenes. He wants to solicit ideas from actors.” [27:00]

• Role Preparation – “Killers of the Flower Moon”:

  • Describes his process for playing a bombastic, morally compromised lawyer in Scorsese’s "Killers of the Flower Moon."
  • "He absolutely directed me to be large, and I was carrying some extra pounds on my own body at that time... but that was useful to him." [29:17]
  • On set, the atmosphere felt like “living in an opera” due to the immersive period set and presence of Osage Nation members. [33:01]

• Desire for Impactful Work:

  • "I want to make movies that people genuinely want to see... In this landscape of so much clutter and noise... I have to look for projects that can dominate in that very crowded place." [39:15]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Loneliness:
  • "Sometimes all we need is someone to look us in the eye, remind us we exist." – Brendan Fraser [08:04]
• On Japanese Stoicism:
  • "[Honne and tatemae] speaks to a certain demeanor of stoicism that is just inherent in the culture." – Brendan Fraser [06:02]
• On Being an Outsider:
  • "I do look a lot like Brendan Fraser. So I may have attracted some attention... but it’s anathema for people to approach you." – Brendan Fraser [09:10]
• On Childhood Loss:
  • "I did have a baby sister, and she did pass away at birth. And in our family, that was a... a hole, that was a vacuum." – Brendan Fraser [11:03]
• On Acting as Refuge:
  • "I knew the answer, it was with the little theater company..." – Brendan Fraser [17:30]
• On Self-Confidence:
  • "I struggle with confidence daily, all the time, and I should..." – Brendan Fraser [26:04]
  • "I don't have anything to prove necessarily any longer. And I have everything to prove still." – Brendan Fraser [26:20]
• On Being Objectified:
  • "I felt like a walking steak or a piece of meat... And I could automatically empathize with the women who’ve always had to contend with this kind of derision." – Brendan Fraser [37:39]
• On Getting Older:
  • "It does [feel like a relief to get older]… I care about bigger issues now... and I don't let things that really are superfluous bother me as much as I did." – Brendan Fraser [38:32]
• On Artistic Ambition:
  • "At the end of the day, I really just want to make movies that people see." – Brendan Fraser [39:51]

---

Chronological Breakdown with Timestamps

| Timestamp | Topic / Quote | | --------- | ------------ | | 00:16–05:36 | Introduction to "Rental Family" & the rental family agency concept | | 06:02 | Deep dive into Japanese cultural concepts (“honne/tatemae”) and stigma around therapy | | 08:12 | Loneliness, being a lifelong outsider, Japan as a formative experience for his character | | 11:03 | Fraser shares the loss of his baby sister and yearning for a sister connection | | 13:57 | On being a "brochure brat," his family's frequent moves | | 15:24 | Impact of moving around on sense of belonging and roots | | 17:30 | School struggles & theater as salvation; early passion for acting | | 23:24 | Contrasting breakout roles ("Encino Man" & "School Ties"), early career self-image | | 26:04 | Openness about insecurity, confidence struggles, and persistent ambitions | | 27:00 | Working with top directors, lessons in humility and collaboration | | 29:17 | Preparation & process for "Killers of the Flower Moon" | | 33:01 | Authenticity and immersion in the acting environment, presence of Osage Nation members| | 35:46 | Physical toll of action roles, body image, injuries, and recovery | | 37:39 | Objectification of men in Hollywood, empathy for women’s experiences | | 39:15 | Current aspirations: meaningful, impactful film work |

---

Tone and Final Impressions

The episode is warm, insightful, and marked by Fraser's humility and vulnerability. Tanya Mosley’s empathetic questioning allows Fraser’s thoughtful and honest reflections to shine, touching on both the complexities of show business and universal human experiences of connection, loss, and self-discovery.

Fraser’s closing words capture his gratitude and intent:
"At the end of the day, I really just want to make movies that people see." [39:51]

---

Recommended Segments to Hear

• 03:51 – Fraser describes the reality and origins of rental family agencies in Japan
• 08:04 – Discussion about the need for human connection ("remind us we exist")
• 11:03 – Fraser’s personal story about family loss and longing
• 26:04 – His moving reflection on self-confidence and never feeling finished with growth
• 37:39 – Honest talk about body image and male objectification in Hollywood

---

Summary prepared for listeners who seek an in-depth, thematic recap of Brendan Fraser’s Fresh Air interview, highlighting both the professional and deeply personal threads of his conversation.

Transcript

[Capital One Announcer]

This message comes from Capital One. Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bank for details. Capital One NA member FDIC.

[Tanya Mosley]

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Moseley. When Brendan Fraser first read the script for Rental Family, he recognized a world he'd never seen shown in film before. It follows an American actor adrift in Tokyo, barely scraping by until he stumbles into a job with a rental family agency. It's based on a real phenomenon in Japan, companies where you can hire someone to fill a gap in your life. A father to walk you down the aisle, a mourner at a funeral, or simply a companion for dinner. Brendan Fraser's character is a struggling performer who's suddenly given a new kind of role to play. In this scene, he's speaking with the head of the rental family agency who's explaining what they do and why they think he might be a good fit. Takahiro Hira speaks first.

[Brendan Fraser]

So what do you think we do? You have to guess. You. You sell people? No, no. We sell emotion.

[Takahiro Hira]

Oh.

[Brendan Fraser]

How? We play roles in clients lives. But you can't just replace someone in your life. Yes and no. But people are willing to take a leap. The actor, the surrogate. You don't have to be that person. You just have to help clients connect to what's missing. Like what? Well, could be anybody from their life or feeling they once had. Parents, siblings, boyfriends, girlfriends, best friends. We played it all well. They could just get a therapist. It's not that easy here. Mental health issues are stigmatized in this country, so people have to turn to other things. Like us. What do you need me for? We need a talking white guy. It's a niche market and I need someone to fill the role. Just talking white guys? I'm just an actor. I don't know how to help people. But you know how to perform. Have you seen the resume? Look, what I'm offering here is a chance to play roles with real meaning.

[Tanya Mosley]

As the story unfolds, Fraser's character discovers that pretending to be someone's family member just might be the most honest work he's ever done. And for Fraser, those themes resonate. His own career has been marked by transformation. Early fame, a period of stepping back, and a comeback that felt like watching someone come into himself again. Fraser first broke through in the early 90s with Encino man and School Ties and later became an action star, anchoring the Mummy franchise. To this day, millions of theme park visitors see and hear him every time they step into the Revenge of the Mummy rides at Universal Studios. But after years in the spotlight, Fraser retreated from big studio roles, continuing to work, but often in smaller, quieter projects. Then in 2022, he delivered an acclaimed performance in Darren Aronofsky's the Whale, earning him an Academy Award for Best actor. And Brendan Fraser, welcome to FRESH air.

[Brendan Fraser]

Thank you, Tanya.

[Tanya Mosley]

Brendan, this is such an interesting premise because this is not fictional. There are rental agencies that provide this service to people in Japan. When you were offered this role, how was it explained to you?

[Brendan Fraser]

Well, there are about 300 or so businesses that operate now and have done since, I'm told, the early 1980s. The model is based on a need for people to fill the absence of loved ones or friends, but they still have a want to connect. So very often, as I've learned in Japan, people can become quite isolated for such a populous place.

[Tanya Mosley]

It's so interesting. Right. Because it's so populous, it's even shown in the film. Like you can feel how crowded, how the population is so dense.

[Brendan Fraser]

Beehive of activity.

[Tanya Mosley]

Exactly. And yet there's a solitude and a loneliness there.

[Brendan Fraser]

And as an actor in our film, whose name is Akira Emoto san did point out for him, and he just turned 77, by the way, bless him, he said sometimes solitude can be good. It gives you contemplation, it gives you reflection. And he says that, you know, heading into the fourth act of his life right now. So it's not necessarily such a bad thing. But it is something that people still want to fulfill, and they do so by hiring an individual who may be a performer, who may be someone who just has a talent or the patience to sit with people and to be a type of surrogate for them to feel as if they're just not so alone. And it may be a bit peculiar, as is the title Rental Family. What is a rental family? You can rent nearly anything in Tokyo. You can rent a capybara.

[Tanya Mosley]

Right?

[Brendan Fraser]

Right.

[Commercial Announcer]

Wish. Yes.

[Brendan Fraser]

And this really doesn't deviate from that business model so much as it does provide for people who are feeling alone, who have the courage to ask for help.

[Tanya Mosley]

That's interesting because part of the reason why this is a service is because there's also a stigma around therapy. Yeah.

[Brendan Fraser]

Particularly in Japan, as I was told, there's an attitude of the word I think is honetataimi, forgive me for my pronunciation, for those who speak Japanese, it means the public face and the private face. And the public face is the one that is the mask preventing what you truly feel for whatever's going on in your life. It speaks to a certain demeanor of stoicism that is just inherent in the culture.

[Tanya Mosley]

In the film, we follow your character, Philip, as he begins working with the rental agency. And he really is conflicted about this whole thing. His first job was standing in as a groom at a wedding ceremony. A young Japanese woman needed her parents to think she was marrying a man, but really she was planning to move abroad with her girlfriend. And in the scene that we're about to hear, Philip is at a restaurant with his co worker processing what he just did. And she calls him the Japanese word for outsider, which is gaijin. Let's listen.

[Brendan Fraser]

You knew the situation. You knew we were her last option.

[Tanya Mosley]

And you still nearly backed out.

[Brendan Fraser]

But I didn't.

[Tanya Mosley]

But you would have.

[Brendan Fraser]

I see.

[Tanya Mosley]

You're just a gaijin.

[Brendan Fraser]

You will never understand how things work here. You're right. I am gaijin. But Japan is my home now. And I want to try to understand, Why do you do this? What? This job. You're so passionate about it. Why? The way these people look at you, like they've been waiting for you their whole lives.

[Tanya Mosley]

Despite everything Dada says, these people stay with you.

[Brendan Fraser]

Sometimes all we need is someone to look us in the eye, remind us we exist.

[Tanya Mosley]

That was my guest today, Brendan Fraser with actress Mari Yamamoto in the new movie Rental Family. Brendan, your character, it's interesting. It makes a point to tell us that your character has been in Japan for seven years and he's still fundamentally disconnected. He's still othered. I mean, first off, because he is a white guy and a token white guy and a population.

[Brendan Fraser]

A tall one at that time and a tall one. He stands out in a crowd.

[Tanya Mosley]

Yes. Actually spent how many months, four months in Japan? Yeah. I mean, with a predominantly Japanese crew, is that right?

[Brendan Fraser]

Entirely Japanese crew. This is a Japanese film. Japanese crafts and trades to make it everything. With English language?

[Tanya Mosley]

Yes, with the English language. What did that experience for you? Just being in Japan, experiencing being an individual, an outsider. How did that help inform what feels like this inherent loneliness in your character?

[Brendan Fraser]

Well, I can understand how I would stand apart in a crowd, but then again, I. I am tall and I do look a lot like Brendan Fraser. So I may have attracted some attention here and there. But interesting to note, if ever I was recognized, it's anathema for people to approach you in a way that would be frothing. Or would you please take a Selfie or I have an autograph, something like that, to much of the population because that would in some way indicate that you'd make the other person uncomfortable or inconvenience them. And I very often was never, ever approached, although I was clearly, obviously who I am.

[Tanya Mosley]

Could you tell that they knew who you were? But there was that courtesy there.

[Brendan Fraser]

Oh, yeah. But compare that to any other populous city that I've been to. People will climb into my lap. I mean, at a restaurant or something, basically. And that just doesn't happen in Japan. But people were redoubled in how they extended courtesy to me, to one another. The notion of burdening someone else with your troubles or your concerns, it's just not how the way things work in Japan as a cultural mainstay.

[Tanya Mosley]

There's a moment where you're asked in the film, if you, in your own life, were to hire someone to fulfill a role, would you? And I'm not gonna say what you said in the film because people need to see it, but you did answer it in an honest way that gives us just a slice of an understanding of your character. Had you thought about that for yourself? Because it makes the audience think about that. If we were in this position where we had the option to hire someone to fulfill a role in our lives, we. Who would it be? Did you ask yourself that question?

[Brendan Fraser]

Yes. Who would it be? A sister. I'm the fourth of four sons, and I can recall being a kid when our family lived in Europe. I was given books that came from the UK because they were printed in English. And one of them was a book about growing up. And one of them had a picture that looked a lot, an illustration that looked so much like me and a girl. And they were depicted as brother and sister. And I wanted that. I wanted that relationship. I wanted. I mean, I'd felt that because, and I'll share this with you, I did have a baby sister, and she did. She did pass away at birth. And in our family, that was a. You know, that was a hole, that was a vacuum. I didn't even. Couldn't make sense of it when I was very young and it happened. So I think I had that intuitively, that. And I didn't want to hang out with my smelly, aggressive, three older brothers all the time.

[Tanya Mosley]

Because you were the baby.

[Brendan Fraser]

I was the youngest.

[Tanya Mosley]

But that yearning was always there, that understanding. Brendan, a lot of people, a lot of places, I should say, claim you in part because your father's work had you all moving around a lot as a kid. Where do you consider home?

[Brendan Fraser]

Upstate New York now. But going backwards, it was a hopscotch pattern of growing up. I was born in Indianapolis. That's where Dad's work was and where mom said, oop, time to go to the hospital. And then to Cincinnati, Detroit, Ottawa, Canada. From There, in the mid-70s, our family traveled to Europe. We were housed in Holland. Dad's work was with Tourism Canada.

[Tanya Mosley]

What did he do with Tourism Canada that had him move so much?

[Brendan Fraser]

I think he might have been a G man, for all I know.

[Tanya Mosley]

You're not sure?

[Brendan Fraser]

In those days, I just knew my dad had a lot of brochures in his office because people would want to know about Canada. So they would send packets of brochures and information. He was promoting Canada around the world, overseas. And so there was also affiliation with embassies and there was liaising with government people. And I honestly don't know exactly what dad did. Sometimes he was writing, sometimes he was attending conferences and speaking his bad French. And, you know, you're a kid, you're in your own world. And the other kids who did have that sort of hopscotch pattern were military families or they worked with, I don't know. I went to an international school in Den Hag. It was called the American School of the Hank. And a lot of the kids there, some of their parents are military, so they called themselves military brats. I thought that was kind of a tough, cool name, but I.

[Tanya Mosley]

You wanted to be a brat?

[Brendan Fraser]

Yeah, no, I was a brochure brat. That was as cool as it got for me, I think.

[Tanya Mosley]

You hold the distinction of one of the only Canadian ish people to have a star on the Canadian Walk of Fame, right? Because you're not technically a Canadian.

[Brendan Fraser]

I am a Jewish citizen born in the United States. My heritage is Canadian. I feel that every time I'm in Canada, the air somehow does something different for me. I feel energized. I truly feel like these are my people. My French Canadian roots are strong. My ancestors fought on the plains of Abraham. And from what I can still see every time I've worked in Montreal, French Canadians are a tribe. They really are a tightly knit group of incredible, polite pirates of sorts. They're pierced and tattooed and they've got, you know, interesting hairstyles and a prevalent attitude of if long as you're not harming anyone or doing anything to hurt someone, you go ahead, you be you, you be good. And they're a tribe. They really do stick together. And I see that from the film sets. I've Worked on, but just also in the proud heart of cultural heritage that they have. And that really speaks to me too.

[Tanya Mosley]

But growing up, how did moving around in that way sort of impact your sense of belonging?

[Brendan Fraser]

It challenged it, because to reinvent yourself or be picked up and moved and picked up and moved and picked up and moved causes you to need to redefine yourself, to find a way to assimilate. You're always the new guy, so it can be a challenge. But many of the actors I've met have had similar backgrounds in their lives by moving around. But I have to say that it worked out for me in a way that made me feel like I was always constantly striving to find a place that was home. And it turned out to be home was where I was, wherever that was.

[Tanya Mosley]

You also found home in this idea of acting. How old were you when it first came to mind for you that first, I really like this, and then second, oh, wait, I think I can do this?

[Brendan Fraser]

It would have been when I lived in Holland and we'd take our holidays to the uk. In London, I first started seeing plays on the West End there in musicals. I think one of the very first musicals I saw was Oliver, which is seeing a revival right now in London. I noticed. I hope I'm there in time to catch it.

[Tanya Mosley]

When did it come to you that I'm going to make this something that I pursue? I'm going to pursue acting?

[Brendan Fraser]

I went to a boys boarding school in Toronto and I was not a very good student. And it's not because I was uneducated or dim or didn't understand. It's because I didn't have consistency in curriculum. The other boys that I went to school with had all been there through the same system continuously. Mine was disjointed and all over the place. So I did struggle academically a great deal and it gave me intense insecurity, certainly mathematics did. That was a language that gave me anxiety. And look, I'm stammering genuine fear because of what was expected.

[Tanya Mosley]

What was your hardest year? Do you remember that turn frequently?

[Brendan Fraser]

Yes. It was probably grade 12, my senior year around there when I was sent out of the maths class. Fraser, this is not for you. Get out is what I remember hearing. And that stuck me in the heart like an ice dagger. It was like being told, you're stupid, you offend me, go away. And it wounded me, it really did. And I thought, well, that must be true. I don't know, who am I? Where do I belong? And I knew the answer, it was with the little theater company where I.

[Commercial Announcer]

Found.

[Brendan Fraser]

A kinship with friends where I could meet girls, for instance, because they took all the parts that were needed for whatever production of west side Story or, you know, I could be included in that. But that came to an abrupt end because my father's work ended and he was made redundant. And so suddenly I was cut loose.

[Tanya Mosley]

You all didn't have money for school anymore?

[Brendan Fraser]

Not at that school anyway. And I was crestfallen, to say the least. My parents were helpless to do anything. I cracked open the yellow pages in Seattle and I found a listing for Cornish College of the Arts. I called them and they said, you can audition, but you have to do it today. I drove in my mom's car to this address on Capitol Hill and went in to a little black box room and I did not have an audition piece. Two contrasting, one classical, one contemporary. I didn't have a song. Honestly, I don't remember what it was that I did for them. I might have even read some thing from a book that I found quickly, a poem or anything. And they had me go through some improvised activities. And they asked me, how are you going to pay to get into school? Also I said, I don't know. And that was a Friday. They thanked me, sent me on my way. I spent the weekend biting my fingernails. I called the next day, which is when the semester of Cornish began, and spoke with who was someone who was clearly an intern or college work study at the student at the office and asked, hi, it's Brendan Fraser. I just want to know, I gave an audition on Friday. Do you know if I've been accepted or not? And then I heard some papers kind of shuffling and the phone go, just hang around. And then they came back, oh, yeah, you're in. Come on. What? What? I didn't now. Yeah. So I drove back and the next thing I know I'm sitting in an auditorium getting a lecture on what is a Pell Grant.

[Tanya Mosley]

Our guest today is Academy Award winning actor Brendan Fraser. We'll be back after a short break. I'm Tanya Mosley and this is FRESH AIR.

[Commercial Announcer]

This message comes from AT&T. America's first network is also its fastest and most reliable based on RootMetrics. United States Root Score Report 1H 2025 tested with best commercially available smartphones on three national mobile networks across all available network types. Your experiences may vary. Rootmetrics rankings are not an endorsement of ATT. When you compare, there's no comparison. AT&T, this message comes from Sports in America with David Greene. The world of sports is filled with stories that go beyond the highlights of the game. Join former Morning Edition host David Green for Sports in America from WHYY and prx, a weekly show featuring in depth conversations with star athletes, coaches, parents and the millions of fans whose lives are touched by the game. Hear about the personal and transformative moments that make fans want to stand up and cheer each week on Sports in America with David Green. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

[Capital One Announcer]

Support for this podcast and the following message come from Strawberry Me. Be honest. Are you happy with your job? Are you stuck in a job you've outgrown or never wanted in the first place? Are your reasons for staying really just excuses for not leaving? Let a career coach from Strawberry Me help you get unstuck, discover the benefits of having a dedicated career coach in your Corner and get 50% off your first coaching session at Strawberry Me NPR. This message comes from NPR sponsor Shopify. Start selling with Shopify today. Whether you're a garage entrepreneur or IPO ready, Shopify is the only tool you need to start, run and grow your business without the struggle. Go to shopify.com NPR hi, this is.

[Tanya Mosley]

Molly Sievinesper, digital producer at Fresh Air.

[Brendan Fraser]

And this is Terry Gross, host of the show.

[Tanya Mosley]

One of the things I do is write the weekly newsletter, and I'm a newsletter fan.

[Brendan Fraser]

I read it every Saturday after breakfast. The newsletter includes all the week shows, staff recommendations and Molly picks, timely highlights from the archive.

[Tanya Mosley]

It's a fun read. It's also the only place where we tell you what's coming up next week.

[Brendan Fraser]

An exclusive, so [e-mail] fresh air and look for an email from Molly every Saturday morning.

[Tanya Mosley]

1992 is such an interesting year because you had two distinct roles that you played in two big movies. There was Encino man, where you played a frozen caveman. In his observation, it was a pretty absurd but funny comedy. It was my favorite movie back in the day. And then School Ties, where you played a Jewish quarterback confronting antisemitism at a prep school. And this was an interesting production because it was the introduction of a lot of actors that we have come to know now. So it's you, it's Matt Damon, it's Ben Affleck.

[Brendan Fraser]

And Chris o'.

[Capital One Announcer]

Donnell.

[Tanya Mosley]

And Chris o'. Donnell.

[Commercial Announcer]

Cole Hauser, Yes.

[Tanya Mosley]

So one of these films was silly and the other one was quite serious. That seems like that's rare to have two films as breakout roles that were two distinctly different characters. Did you know the type of actor that you Wanted to be.

[Brendan Fraser]

At that time, I knew that Encino man was a broad comedy. And I thought, yeah, I could do that. I've done clown work. I know what I'm doing. You did. I got the part in the audition for Encino man, in large part, I think, because I was wrestling with plants and painting the walls with ketchup. That's what said in the script. Okay. So anyway, I actually did it and they, they, they wanted me, but I thought it's, it's not beneath me, but not really how I want to introduce myself to the world. Yes, I had, I had pretentions of, you know, crafting a career early, early on. The opportunity to play the kid in School Ties spoke to me a great deal. Like I said, because I did go to a boys private school. I do know what happens to young men in that environment when they wear blazers and ties but are handed a copy of Lord of the Flies when they arrive there as an ad hoc survival guide. And that's the truth.

[Tanya Mosley]

That's the truth.

[Brendan Fraser]

That's the truth.

[Tanya Mosley]

You did truly?

[Brendan Fraser]

Yes, yes. So I wanted to be a part of the film.

[Tanya Mosley]

What does it mean to be handed that book and to be told while you're wearing a tie and a suit.

[Brendan Fraser]

Pay attention because this is how you could frankly live or die in this environment where you live in a society of your peers and you wonder, where are all the adults? I'm glad things have changed. I know my own kids have gone to schools and as such, and the environment is different now, thankfully. But it did give me an impression of how to proceed. So while I'm not a Jewish kid, I do know what it feels like to be an outsider looking to be a part of it. David Green in School Ties was confronted by bigotry and anti Semitism. Then he takes ownership of who he is, but is blamed for a cheating scandal because he's, he's the outsider. He's the one who can be the sacrificial goat.

[Tanya Mosley]

There's something so timeless about that movie and that story.

[Brendan Fraser]

I think it holds up.

[Tanya Mosley]

Yeah. That really got me thinking about something else that I heard you say during the press run for Rental Family when you were in London where you, you said that the film reminded you that you're good enough and had always been. That's such a vulnerable thing to admit. And I also think I was surprised to hear it at this late stage in your career.

[Brendan Fraser]

I struggle with confidence daily, all the time, and I should, because I think I need to be reminded by myself that I am enough. I. I don't have anything to prove necessarily any longer. And I have everything to prove still. And I don't want to be so comfortable as to rest on the laurels of an accomplishment, an affirmation, an award, for instance, so that I lose the hunger and the desire to continue and grow and learn. There's so many filmmakers who are incredible that I want to get something from.

[Tanya Mosley]

You have worked with great directors. You have worked with Scorsese and Aronofsky and these people that the list is very long and a very long career.

[Brendan Fraser]

Well, what I learned from working with, you know, these exalted, esteemed directors is that something I should have known all along, but it's. The truth is they're just people. Martin Scorsese pushes furniture around himself on. On the floor to block scenes. He wants to solicit ideas from actors, and he. He makes decisions on the spot, in the moment to deviate from a plan. And here I had these, you know, these pretentious ideas that he was masterful and that he would have everything prescribed as he wanted it and deemed it to be. Yes, he certainly knew what he was doing, but he is a collaborator. He's really an ensemble player. He doesn't perceive himself as being so exalted as I was imagining that he would do. And to see Scorsese work that way and Aronofsky work that way also, being surrounded by people who are so committed to what they do and committed to the vision of the one bringing it to them is truly inspiring to me.

[Tanya Mosley]

Scorsese said that he chose you to play in Killers of the Flower Moon, which is a film about murders of members of the Osage Nation in Oklahoma in the 1920s. And you played an attorney, and you come in pretty late in the film, but you're pretty bombastic. And one of the things he said, he admired your skill, but he also admired your ability to take up the space on the screen.

[Brendan Fraser]

That's what he wanted. When I spoke to him, he said he needs to be large. He needs to be powerful and assertive. Because that character actually was a composite of many different lawyers representing that, of Trials. There were many during that film. But it's, you know, it's the. The fourth act of a Scorsese movie. It's when the hammer drops and now everybody. The reckoning is here. And so what happens while they're in court and everyone has to atone for their sins, as it were. And he absolutely directed me to be large, and I was carrying some extra pounds on My own body at that time from having done. Finished doing the whale.

[Tanya Mosley]

The whale, Right. He had just gotten done with it.

[Brendan Fraser]

Yeah. So I. I was quite larger than. Than I am now, for instance, in this stage of wherever my body is now. But. And that was useful to him because, I mean, not only was I sitting next to Bob De Niro and defending him in federal court and going head to head with John Liskow in a bellowing contest to a judge who at that time, lawyers fought trials based on how colorful and bombastic and large they were.

[Tanya Mosley]

I want to actually play a clip from the film so that folks can know what we're talking about. So Leonardo DiCaprio stars as Ernest, who works for his uncle, played by Robert De Niro. And Ernest worked on the uncle's ranch and also carried out many of the murders that happened. And your character enters, as I mentioned late in the film, playing this combative attorney representing the uncle. And in this scene, I want to play your character in a room full of powerful people try to pressure Ernest not to testify against his uncle. We hear you speak, followed by DiCaprio and then other people in the room. Let's listen.

[Brendan Fraser]

If you testify against your uncle, you realize that this can be held against you for the. The rest of your life, and you can be convicted for the Smith murder. Spend the rest of your days in prison. Do you see that? No, I suppose I didn't think that through too much. But they're giving you the rope to hang yourself. Do you see that?

[Takahiro Hira]

He doesn't see that.

[Brendan Fraser]

He doesn't see that, Ernest.

[Takahiro Hira]

Yeah.

[Brendan Fraser]

Yeah. If you do this, you will be murdering your uncle. Ernest. You don't want to do that, have him die in prison, do you, Ernest?

[Takahiro Hira]

No, of course.

[Brendan Fraser]

Of course I don't want that, Marty. You know I don't want that. Yes. You have all the power to save his life. He is saving you, dumb boy. Do you want to go home right now? Yes.

[Takahiro Hira]

Yes, I do.

[Brendan Fraser]

Wanna see your wife and kids?

[Takahiro Hira]

Yes, sir, I do.

[Brendan Fraser]

These government men, they beat you and they tortured you?

[Takahiro Hira]

Oh, no.

[Brendan Fraser]

No, they didn't.

[Takahiro Hira]

But they did keep me up for days.

[Brendan Fraser]

No, they beat you? They beat you? Yes, they beat me. They beat me, sir. Thank you.

[Tanya Mosley]

That was my guest today, Brendan Fraser, in the 2023 film Killers of the Flower Mo by Martin Scorsese. And you mentioned how you wanted to play this outsized person. That's what you were cast to do. You were meant to be bombastic in that way. But how did you approach playing someone complicit in such horrific crimes without making him a cartoon villain.

[Brendan Fraser]

When we started to shoot that scene, Martin told me that this should be like for Leo's character and it should be like Night of the Living Dead because everyone is in on the know and he's ushered into the hot seat and he's going to be intimidated into getting what they want. He not only has to swim upstream, he has to be the boulder in the stream at the same time.

[Tanya Mosley]

Did you spend a lot of time on the set? Because what was interesting about this particular film is that it centers on these Osage voices and it was made in deep collaboration with that nation. What was it like being part of a production where you're working with with real people?

[Brendan Fraser]

You know, it was like living in an opera in that courtroom scene because it was a Baptist church that had been designed on the inside to be brand new 1920s Federalist architecture. So it was squeaky clean columns and the galley was filled with, you know, the extra players. And they were first nations, they were Osage members authentically. They really were. So this, this was intensely personal. This whole movie is it's about them for them and it was populated by them purposefully, and there's a sense of authenticity. He shot with four cameras, quadruple coverage. I unless it's a action car wreck or something like that, you don't often see this. This was just to play the scene a wide on them, one on me, one on Leo, and another one hunting for reaction shots. And the scene went on for, you know, several minutes. So we really were in almost like a stage play when shooting that.

[Tanya Mosley]

Let's take a short break. If you're just joining us, my guest is Brendan Fraser and his new film is called Rental Family. We'll be right back after a break. This is FRESH air.

[Commercial Announcer]

This message comes from Jackson. Let's face it, retirement planning can be confusing. At Jackson, we're working to make retirement clear for everyone, starting with you. Our easy to understand resources and user friendly digital tools help simplify your entire experience. You can have confidence in your retirement with clarity from Jackson. Seek the clarity you [e-mail] Jackson is short for Jackson Financial, Inc. Jackson National Life Insurance Co. Lansing, Michigan and Jackson National Life Insurance Co. Of New York. Purchase New York. Support for this podcast and the following message come from Lisa Leesa has a lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses tailored to how you sleep. Each mattress is meticulously designed and assembled in the USA and designed with specific sleep positions and feel preferences in mind. Visit Leesa.com for 25% off, plus get an extra $50 off with promo code NPR. That's Leesa.com promo code NPR.

[Tanya Mosley]

You know, a lot has been said about it being a comeback after the whale. And you make the point to say that you had always been here just in smaller roles or in television or in streaming series. You know, one of the things that you talk about quite a bit, but you've talked about the beating that your body had had over the years, especially in your early career over the Mummy, when you were doing the Mummy and some of those other very physical roles. When did you realize that you were in pain, that you had turned a.

[Brendan Fraser]

Corner, That I was paying attention to myself and that I needed to slow down. I took every precaution, and stunt teams are there for safety, and, you know, all precautions were always taken. But then again, at that time, I was, you know, I was a fit guy. I had plenty of practice with, you know, rough and tumble stuff, whatever. And I thought, you know, I can do this, but I didn't have to. Although I did because I had this misconceived notion that I had to be earning this somehow.

[Tanya Mosley]

So you were pushing your body hard?

[Brendan Fraser]

Yeah, a little too hard. Like, you know, if I wasn't in pain or bleeding, I wasn't working hard enough, and that's not necessary. I would caution actors to not do that and anyone in any field, too. And it took me being confronted by, you know, a host of, like, I won't go into the laundry list of things. I had to get sorted out with a surgeon. But it was. It took me having to step back from that and say, hey, you know, you got to protect yourself, too, man.

[Tanya Mosley]

You had a lot of surgeries.

[Brendan Fraser]

I did, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm pretty bolted together on the inside now. But the most important thing is I'm out of pain. I have great mobility, and with, you know, training and caution, I can still do a version of the things that we did before. And also, I'm glad to tell the stuntman, hey, you're gonna be great in this shot.

[Tanya Mosley]

You know, one of the things I want to make sure I talk to you about, because I've just been so curious about it. It's something that we don't often talk about when we are talking about men being objectified. And you were objectified in a very specific way in Hollywood back in the 90s and the early 2000s, I think you even referred to yourself as a walking stake. Was that ever something that was of concern for you or bothered you or felt like out of step with who you were?

[Brendan Fraser]

Absolutely. I've already told you, I contend with confidence on a daily basis. But I can remember feeling being spoken of as if I'm not even in the room and being picked apart by, I don't know, some production or executive, as if I was a horse or something like that. And it made me feel, well, you know, like a walking steak or a piece of meat, I guess. And I could automatically empathize with clearly the women who've always had to contend with this kind of derision. And it, it made, it made me aware, like I got off relatively easy by comparison. And knowing that type of objectification and the damage it can do to people.

[Tanya Mosley]

In that way, does it feel like a relief to get older?

[Brendan Fraser]

It does, yeah. That and I have fewer not concerns. But I, I care about bigger issues now more than I did in a conceptual way. And I don't let things that really are superfluous bother me as much as I did because I learned to ask myself, what's the worst thing that could happen in this situation? And whatever the answer is lets me know if or not I need to be concerned about it or if I should.

[Tanya Mosley]

What aspirations do you still have as you look at roles, you know you've now won an Oscar for best actor. You're taking on roles that really push you in direction, stories you've never heard before or what do you want to do that you haven't done yet?

[Brendan Fraser]

I want to make movies that people genuinely want to see. And it's a challenge. Like I say, in this landscape of so much clutter and noise that comes from the product being beamed at us all at once. I have to look for the places where it's quiet or I have to look for the projects that can can dominate in that very crowded place, get in there and throw elbows and that's what it would take. So to answer your question, at the end of the day, I really just want to make movies that people see.

[Tanya Mosley]

Brendan Fraser, this has been such a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you so much.

[Brendan Fraser]

You too, Tanya.

[Tanya Mosley]

Academy Award winning actor Brendan Fraser. His new film is Rental Family. Coming up, rock critic Ken Tucker reviews new music from Nico Case, Valerie June and Olivia Dean. This is FRESH AIR.

[Commercial Announcer]

This message comes from NetSuite. What does the future hold for business? Can someone invent a crystal ball? Until then, over 42,000 businesses have future proofed their business with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud ERP, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory and HR into one platform with real time insights and forecasting, you're able to peer into the future and seize new opportunities. Download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning for free at netsuite.com story.

[Capital One Announcer]

This message comes from Carvana. Buy a car 100% online at carvana.com with financing to fit your budget. Enjoy seven days to return if it's not a fit, limitations and exclusions may apply. See return [e-mail] Evergreen trees are Pacific.

[Tanya Mosley]

Northwest icons in journalism. An evergreen story isn't tied to one news cycle. It goes deep and helps you understand the world.

[Brendan Fraser]

The Evergreen is also a podcast from.

[Tanya Mosley]

OPB about the Northwest. I'm Jen Chavez. Listen to the Evergreen podcast from OPB every Monday, part of the NPR Network. Rock critic Ken Tucker has chosen three new songs that sound nothing like the pop music currently dominating the charts. The first belongs to Nico Case, who has released her first album in seven years called Neon Gray Midnight Green. Next, there's Valerie June, who Ken says has cut a song that makes a familiar message sound strikingly new. And finally, the British singer Olivia Dean, who was recently nominated for a Best New Artist Grammy. We start with Nico Case.

[Ken Tucker]

Hello stranger, you remind me of someone jangling lust pouncing on a sliver of a dusty pool of light. Your fire's hue is a maraschino cherry room temperature island.

[Tanya Mosley]

Backlit by the bar.

[Takahiro Hira]

The readily recognized, recognizable voice of Nico Case, a soaring, searching sound gets a real workout over the course of her new album, Neon Grey Midnight Green. This collection defies category. When she sang with the Canadian band the New Pornographers, the music was often described as pop rock. On her solo albums, she's leaned toward country and folk. For this new one, she's overseeing nothing less than a chamber orchestra to augment the rich, swirling dramatic of compositions such as this song titled O Neglect living.

[Ken Tucker]

On the frontage road going half the speed Lap dust of sick harmonizing with the freeway why would I come home if not to sleep? But I swap out a bunch of clothes and only, only glad we've come so far, you and me, let's do it all again. I'm your sorcerer's apprentice, your indenture is ever present. I'm your sorcerer's apprentice, your indenture ever present. Bankrupted by my own ideas. Oh neglect.

[Takahiro Hira]

The songs on Nico Case's Neon Grey Midnight Green, her first in seven years, are the perfect accompaniment to reading her unsparing, tough minded memoir from earlier this year titled the Harder I Fight the More I Love youe. When I heard Valerie June's new song Runnin and Searchin it reminded me what a strong album she'd put out at the start of the year, a collection called Owls, Omens and Oracles. Runnin and Searchin', produced as the album was by the guitarist M. Ward, is a fresh way to showcase Valerie June's ringing voice and quicksilver, idiosyncratic phrasing. The lyrics are an encouragement to persevere through difficult times. You've heard that sentiment a million times, but you haven't heard the way Valerie June can make the familiar sound like a surprising new challenge and advent.

[Ken Tucker]

Falling finding no I do not need reminding Every love city's a doorway to the path that lies before me Let it move you, shake you, take you.

[Commercial Announcer]

Nothing.

[Ken Tucker]

In his life can break you Seeking hold and give and take.

[Tanya Mosley]

Has it.

[Ken Tucker]

In a lot of way. Sing my notes listening let you Shakespeare free sunshine got st on five amen in the midnight out joy and light shooting star twinkle twinkle what you are now that's true morning bright sunshine setting light running search and fall and fanning.

[Takahiro Hira]

Valerie June deserves a much bigger audience. By contrast, Olivia Dean is a relative newcomer who's already a big star in her native England, where her talent and popularity are often compared to Adele. Dean sings in a warm tenor voice, delivering lyrics as though she's murmuring confidences into her phone. Her music has its roots in R and B and smooth soul, what we used to call quiet storm music after Smokey Robinson's own murmured confidences. On the single Man I Need, Olivia Dean is talking to a guy she likes, encouraging him to open up more, to be as vulnerable with her as she is with him.

[Ken Tucker]

Looks like we're making up for lost time. Need you to spell it out for me Bossa nova on all night it's like a type of alchemy. Introduce me to your best friend I can come a slide right in satellite ain't even that far I kind of wonder where you are already know I can leave it alone you're on my mind you already gave you the town and the place so don't be shy just come be the man I need Tell me you got something to give I want it I kind of like it when you call me wonderful whatever the type of talk it is, come on.

[Takahiro Hira]

One of her new songs, Nico, speaks of love songs as a quote, exercise in futility, even as she's singing a beautiful one. So it is with Olivia Dean and Valerie June. They each, in their own distinctive way, express an ambivalence toward romance that makes their commitment to the love song all the more satisfyingly complicated and realistic.

[Tanya Mosley]

Ken Tucker reviewed new music by Nico Case, Valerie June and Olivia Dean. Tomorrow on FRESH AIR, former U.S. attorney Joyce Vance talks about the controversy surrounding the Justice Department, including the prosecution of former FBI Director James Comey and the Epstein files. We'll also discuss Vance's career in her new book, giving Up Is a Manual for Keeping Democracy. I hope you can join us to keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews. Follow us on Instagram @NPRFreshAir. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our managing producer is Sam Brigger. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Ann Marie Baldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Yakundi and Anna Bauman. Our digital media producer is Molly CV Nesper. Our consulting visual producer here is Hope Wilson. Roberta Shorrock directs the show with Terry Gross. I'm Tanya Mosley.

[Commercial Announcer]

Support for this podcast and the following message come from Lisa. Lisa isn't just about sleep. It's about impact. They donate thousands of mattresses each year to those in need, while also partnering with organizations like Clean Hub to help remove harmful plastic waste from Oceans. Visit Leesa.com for 25% off mattresses, plus get an extra $50 off with promo code NPR. That's Leesa.com promo code NPR support for.

[Capital One Announcer]

NPR and the following message come from Freshworks, who believes complexity is the enemy of efficiency. Stop wrestling with bloated, expensive software. Uncomplicate with FreshService for it and FreshDesk for customer support. Learn [e-mail] this message comes from Schwab.

[Commercial Announcer]

Everyone has moments when they could have done better. Same goes for where you invest. Level up and invest smarter with Schwab. Get market insights, education and human help when you need it.